Cognify Solutions: The Human Component Necessary for AI Governance - Dec 17 2025

All right.

Few people are in the waiting room. Oh, my friend Rajiv. Looks like he made it. And you have some folks also attending?

I think so. I'm prompting them now.

Hey, guys.

Hey, Rajiv, how are you?

Good. Good to see you. Richard. And Chris.

Good to almost see you. Good to hear you. Anyway, There he. Thanks for. Thanks for joining us.

Sure.

Make sure this link goes out.

Yeah. Because it was. It just showed that you had another meeting going on.

No worries, little zoom blip.

Yeah.

I'm just going to turn the audio and video down. I'm about to take a quick bite. I didn't have dinner or lunch. I should say lunch. Just chowing down.

Definitely.

Hope you brought enough for everybody.

Yeah, I'm sharing it. Can you taste it, Chris? It's only yogurt, so it's nothing major.

All right, I have two screens now. Let me do this. Just share that screen for right now. Let me make sure these links go.

Out at least prompt a couple guests.

Dad.

It.

Richard, I went through the stuff that you sent out to Ann and all of us yesterday. Interesting and well put together. So I'm hoping you can get some traction with that.

Oh, you mean the, the blog posts, you know. Yeah, that I tell you receive. I'm. I'm really troubled by universities that are so resistant to AI because my daughter goes to one of them and she's a creative and you know, I mean the reality is some kid, some 19 year old kid with super computer power in his basement in Kazakhstan is going to be able to create movies and create creative content with no talent. Just really the ability to create derivative content from true artists and then using, you know, whatever. Sara, Nano, Banana, you know, whatever the flavor of the month is that's doing video content. Hey, Gen, whatever. And actually create some pretty impressive stuff without having an inch of talent just being able to, to take other people's work or even use AI to create stuff from prompting.

Yep. Like you said, the universities, you know, have to have to kind come to a certain amount of reality is AI is one of the major tools of the present and future. It's not future. It's already here.

Right. I mean, I look at it this way, you know, Blockbuster versus Netflix, you know, the American automobile industry versus the Japanese. I mean there are all kinds of instances in history where legacy products resistant to change. And I would even say the cable companies.

Right.

How long did the cable companies fight against streaming services? You know, all they did was raise their prices and, and try to, you know, use their monopoly to strong arm Customers in, into keeping you using their incredibly expensive platforms, you know, which had a thousand channels, but who can watch a thousand channels? And why on earth would I pay for anything more than I want to watch? I mean, streaming services basically pare down what people wanted. But you know, these, these mega corporations and monopolies, they don't give people what they want. They give people what is the, is the most profitable. And you know, I have no affinity whatsoever for the Time Warner cables or the Clear Channel. All these comp, all these monopolies out there that, you know, have existed for decades and really not serve their audience.

No. And what happened a couple of months ago with Spectrum, we have Spectrum down.

Here, I call them Rectum Cable.

You know, so basically right now all of the different. In my cable service charge, I can get all of these streaming services now for free. Supposedly it's not free, but it's in there. So I can cancel, I can cancel the, you know, hbo, Max or Netflix or whatever. And now they have it all as part of their system.

Yeah, and Netflix and Max and the others don't really care because they're, they're still getting it anyway. But you know, and you've seen a lot of consolidation in, in the streaming services space right there. Basically two players now. You've got Hulu, Disney, you know, there's like four or five ESPN this, you know, four or five, all part of one consolidated offering. And then I think Paramount and Amazon have a similar kind of scenario.

Then you got Peacock.

And you got Peacock. Netflix is really the only one that continues to fly solo because, you know, they don't have, they don't have a reason to partner with anybody really because they have the most subscribers.

They're going the opposite direction. They're purchasing Time Warner now.

Yeah, they're looking to buy.

Yeah, exactly. Which I think is a good thing. You know, we have to keep it away from these Trump infused billionaires who want to buy up all these media companies so that he controls the narrative and the media, which he did with Larry Ellison and CBS and with Jeff Bezos and, and, and the Washington Post and you know, these. They're controlling the narrative, they're controlling the media. The media is just like our constitution is owned by the people. That's what the fcc, the Federal Communications Commission was empowered to enforce. Unfortunately, they've become lackeys for one political party in particular. And all they do is like anything else these days. Yeah, they just rubber stamping and rubber stamping and enable a political party to do whatever they want. If the FCC was doing its job, Fox News would not even be on the air because there's nothing. There's nothing newsworthy about what they do. What they do is harmful. They spew propaganda and fate and false news and hateful commentary. It's un American. And yet, you know, the FCC has been politicized so badly that they have no authority. And all they are now is a lap dog for whatever political party is. Is. And in particular, the Republicans.

Alas. One crusade at a time, my friend.

One crusade at a time. And we have. We have some work to do on the academic front. And we have three people in the waiting room, so let's get them in, please. Well, three, actually. Two of them were. Were. Was a phantom notetaker, but we have a. Paula.

Paula, welcome.

Thank you.

Welcome. So we're running a little bit late, but about to get started, I guess.

Here.

Here.

All right, without further ado, thank you for coming to our round table. This round table is brought to you by CoC. Cognify Insight Network. Part of Cognify Solutions. Cognify Solutions is a brand of Nexus systems that focuses on AI governance. What is that? That is ensuring that these amazing, fantastic, weighty, somewhat fraught, somewhat divisive, but still critical piece of technology comes under good stewardship, good guidance of the people who design, develop, deploy and use these systems every day. Cognify Insight Network is a initiative of Cognify Solutions to bring real conversations, real topics, real insights, real discussions around these solutions and these recommendations. So this is ultimately why we want to build a community around this, because we firmly believe that as we have these conversations, as these important decisions are made, these recommendations are put out there that they don't just come out of one echo chamber. They involve everybody, from professionals to stakeholders to end users. Everybody has a stake in this. Everybody. We want to build a community that has a voice in this conversation. As such, because we want to be intentional about the community part of this. We want to go around the room and actually give you guys a chance to introduce yourselves. I think we have a little bit of a light group, so we can take maybe 30 seconds. Maybe 30 seconds. Just give us your name, your company, your location, and perhaps a fun fact. So I'll go first. My name is Chris Feimster. My company is Cognify Solutions. My current location is hailing from the not quite as sunny, still a bit chilly, but not too bad Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And I suppose a fun fact about me is that I enjoy road trips. Apparently I didn't realize how much I Enjoy road trips because I recently put down 3200 miles in the last two weeks. All right, next up, Richard.

Hi everyone. I'm Richard Schreiber, also a partner in Cognify Solutions. I have my own AI company called law firm AI Expert where I provide solutions for women led law firms to really help improve their business, get some valuable time back and help them to automate admin and otherwise processes that keep them from practicing law, effectively managing their business and spending time with their families. So my mission is to give them back that time. I'm also an autism advocate, have a foundation based in New York. I've written a best selling book around it. And that's my real passion, is to be a voice for those who can't necessarily always speak for themselves and happy to be here. A fun fact. Well, since we're keeping on the travel, I enjoy traveling a lot. And one of my favorite places in the world to go to is Barcelona. And my wife and I went there several times about 20 years ago and we climbed all the way to the top of the look of one of the towers. Then of the Sagrada Familia, the famous Antonin Gaudi church, which will become the largest church in the world once its construction is finished, which is targeted for next year. 900ft up in the air, my wife and I climbed up I don't know how many stairs and we walked on a catwalk which was kind of a construction site, praying that the wind didn't blow us off it. So it was pretty scary, but exhilarating nonetheless and yeah, kind of fun.

Well, that's fantastic. Hopefully maybe this talk might be at least a quarter as exhilarating as as the experience. All right, next up, Rajiv.

Hi, my name is Rajiv Kapoor. As Chris just introduced me, I am a co founder of an organization called Minds Untapped and we are in the area of special needs and with area of focuses in the autism and educational areas. Fun fact is that I came to United States 52 years ago on a tennis scholarship.

Fantastic. Hopefully we've made that worth your while for you to stay that long.

Yes. Yeah. I'm very blessed indeed and so are we. Rajiv is a wonderful friend and we're hoping to together change a lot of the paradigm in K to 12 Schooling for Kids on the spectrum.

Fantastic. All right, next up, Paula. All right, you are muted, Paula. That's okay. Oh, that's okay. If you can't unmute, we'll go on down. I'll come back to you.

I got It.

Oh, there you go.

Hi, how are you? So my name is Paula. Thank you for inviting me. I collaborate with different organizations. My company is Educademy and is a consulting and research firm. Basically enhancing, you know, certain procedures and acquiring and developing skills to enhance performance in the classroom and, and anything that is needed to close that gap when it's needed. So it's basically just supporting a lot of professionals, teachers training teachers training parents and also going into the field of, you know, also corporations and working with their staff to improve communication and interactions among them. So that is one of the things that I do. One of the fun facts is when I was in Chicago under a blizzard and I decided to go to Australia, to Sydney and getting on a flight all the way to California and from California flying out to Sydney and seeing a 90, 100 degrees weather within 24.

Hours.

That was like the up. You know, the, the, you know, this is a flip flop type of deal and that's kind of an experience that I enjoyed and I tend to look at those drastic situations and try to make the best of it. So. Yeah, so thank you for having me.

Thank you for coming, Paul. I, I think you may have me licked in miles. Hope you got some frequent flyer miles all of all.

Oh yes, I still do and I, sometimes I fly. I don't. But that's. That was a great trip going from Chicago. Best time to travel is February from Chicago to la, la, Sydney. FYI.

Great. Thank you, Paula. All right, next up I see JLo's phone. Thank you for joining us. We're doing 15 or 30 second introductions. Name, company, location, fun fact.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Wait, wait, wait.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

No.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you.

Oh, okay. Sorry. My name is Jerlene Harrison. I am a teacher with Community Council Learning Academy in Philadelphia and we service students with emotional support issues and we do our best to make it a socio emotional learning experience. With that being said, we still have to drive instruction, direct and indirect instruction and make sure that the students are on task. But sometimes we have to stop instruction in order to make sure that whatever issue the student might be having, we have to address it and make sure that they're able to calm down and get back to where they need to be. Especially when it concerns the education. However, it is difficult to assign homework because they don't do it. And even though the parents might know that they have it, they don't enforce it. And it, it's, it's basically teaching kids how to self manage and redirect their anger somewhere else and how to get back on track. And we try not to have the children 302 or excuse me, go into a different program because we just want.

To help them.

To figure it out. And sometimes it's difficult, but we want to help them figure it out on their own so that they don't. The consequences aren't as severe.

Yeah. Have your perspective in the, in the space.

Thank you.

So I recently found out that we do two week, every two weeks we do testing on an educational site. And it. What it does is tests to see what they've learned and retained in regards to reading and math. And I just found out yesterday that one or maybe a few of our students have been using Google to help them get better scores on their testing.

The Google.

Gemini. Gemini. Gemini 3.

Yeah, more than likely. Yes. So, and we need to figure out a way to keep that from happening because the scores that we use are to help with their IEPs, Individualized Education Programs. And we need to make sure that they're as true as possible because otherwise, if they're not, it is not beneficial for the student nor for us, especially when it comes to teaching and doing our programming for the students. Because when it comes to. I teach language arts in history, and if it shows that my student is testing on 12th grade, you know, on a 12th grade level, even though he's in 9th or 10th grade, then I need to step it up. But if he can't keep up when I step it up, what's the point?

Indeed. All right, let me speed through because I, I think you're gonna have. You're gonna get a lot of good, good meat out of this webinar. Richard's gonna be our presenter for today. I kind of want to just jump right in. We kind of went, why are we here? Honestly, Geraldine, you kind of touched on that bit of that knee, what you're seeing in the classroom, having discussions around all of this and a couple of things that you, Paul, and you regid touched on. That's why we're here. All right, so without further ado, let me jump to our roundtable discussion. At least the premise. So, Richard, take it away. Set us up.

Okay, so just by total admission, I am an AI strategist. I also raised a daughter and watched her go through. Go through school. Yes. She had special needs. And it's funny you talk about IEPs. That's a story for a different time that Rajeev and I are looking at how AI can be used to really help teachers and caregivers to, you know, foster better streamlined workflow in that space. Though I am an AI expert, I think one of the things today, and we had this discussion briefly earlier, is that today with AI, knowledge is no longer power because everybody has access to knowledge through a large language model. What's more important is that students today learn how to ask the right questions. What is often referred to as the Socratic model. And you know, there, there's a piece of scripture that kind of summarizes this really well, and that is, you know, teach someone to fish, don't just hand them the fish. And, you know, the difference in that is, yeah, any kid can go to chat GPT and, and put in a simple prompt, you know, give me a one a thousand word essay on, on the French and Indian war and get mediocre results. But what they should be doing is, is asking themselves what. Why did this war take place? What triggered it? Why is it important historically? What were the key outcomes? You know, if the student is really thinking about it from that standpoint, then AI becomes a good tool to have a conversation about it, not just something that cheats writing an essay. So anyway, we'll get, we'll. I want to keep my presentation brief because this is not intended for me to, to do a dialogue. Chris, can you share the presentation or do you want me to do that?

Let me make sure I'm sharing the right window.

All right. I have it open on my desktop if that facilitates. So we can just jump in.

Wait there. All right, we're seeing the academic crossroads, the fork on the road.

That is it. Next slide, please. So, you know, this, this conversation is more about higher education, although we, we've spent an equal amount of time talking about K through 12. And with my dear friend Rajiv, who's on tonight's, you know, that actually tends to be more of the space that we're involved in. But because there's so much being written about what's happening on a collegiate level, we wanted to spend some time and have a conversation about that. And we talked a little bit about plagiarism and really that's, that's one of the bigger challenges that all education, but in particular higher education, is facing. We're at a crossroads. AI has arrived on college campuses, and how we deal with that in the next generation of learning is really super critical because AI isn't going away, and we can't be the proverbial ostrich, stick our head in the sand and pretend it'll go away. Because it's not. And in higher education, you know, we have, as you can imagine, a lot of paradigms that are, you know, old. And let's face it, college, college institutions are for profit institutions. They are, they can be form, formulaic, not all, but you know, what we're seeing in this slide is the old paradigm, you know, detection and enforcement, fear based compliance against use of AI and against plagiarism. Technology is seen as a threat and really just a preservation of the status quo. The new possibility is using AI is for greater fluency in partnership, you know, partnering with a tool that can actually help students learn faster, quicker, better and deeper if used the correct way. And I want to underscore that what both Nexus and Cognify are all about is, is really faith based, ethical, integrous and compassionate use of AI without question. You know, AI gives you the opportunity to explore your curiosity. You ask it a question, yeah, it'll respond, but it'll also ask you three questions. Do you want me, do you want to answer for this? Do you want to take the conversation in that direction? So AI can be very useful at broadening the questions that students can ask to really develop a much broader understanding of the topic that they're involved in. Technology is really an amplifier, not a replacement. And you know, the reality is AI is not going anywhere. And we're seeing more and more this kind of split between people that avoid it and people that embrace it. And unfortunately we have a lot of people out there, people like Elon Musk and, and, and other, other people like the, the owner of anthropic, who are saying horrible things like unemployment is going to reach 20 to 25% within the next one to three years. And largely it's going to be entry level jobs for kids coming out of college. And those kids coming out of college who are well versed in AI will have a definite advantage over kids that don't and you know, don't. Believe me, don't take my word for it. There's plenty of information out there about this and we'll talk a little more about that next slide, sir. So, yeah, I mean, this is pretty much more of the same conversation around when the faculty becomes, you know, more, more in tune with trying to ferret out plagiarism than, than being mentors and, and really fostering better use and effective and ethical use of AI by students. They're really breaking what is in effect an educational covenant. You know, education is something that needs to evolve with, with, with technology and what we're Witnessing today is, is an arms race between AI and its ability to convey knowledge. And professors, you know, really looking closely at what students are outputting, being more concerned about plagiarism than how do we embrace AI in, in the classroom and again get students to think about using it in a Socratic method in a way that changes the mindset away from memorization to engagement with an intellectual that can enhance their curiosity and their intelligence. You know, there's a, definitely a culture of distrust. There's a and which is not to say that there's not a valid reason for distrusting AI. We know it hallucinates. We know that's, that's had consequences all over the place in legal and finance, in people share in organizations sharing information on large language models that, and end up being broadcast over the, the general Internet and so forth. But again, being defensive about it, sticking our head in the sand, pretending that AI is going to go away does more harm then confronting it then looking at how do I use this within a faithful ethical construct in education or whatever it may be. That's where I believe, we believe the focus should really be. Next slide please. And again, the job market, I don't want to get too far into this. The job market, as I said earlier, is going to be very challenging for those who do not embrace AI regardless of what their degree is. Because you know, people in corporate America, they're looking at cutting heads left and right because all it does is fall to the bottom line and appease their shareholders. And you know, they're not going to cut the people at the top. No, they're going to cut the people at the bottom. You know, the analysts, the entry level positions, the paralegals, the, the, you know, people, people that are coming in, in entry level positions. But if you're an entry level position, if you are applying for an entry level position and you know AI and are well versed and schooled in it, then they know you're a valuable resource. So that's, that's really, I think, symptomatic of what we really need to be thinking about going forward. And banning AI in college, which is pretty rampant, is only going to make students less prepared for the job market and really put them at a disadvantage for kids who don't even have college degrees. But who are AI versed, who are competing against them for the same jobs in many cases. Next slide please. So yeah, AI, I look at it, the reason we say it's a telescope and not a creator is, you know, when Galileo invented the telescope, it didn't do away with our curiosity about the heavens. It didn't diminish our capability to explore, you know, outer space. It just gave us a better tool to do it better. AI is pretty much the same way. AI should never replace human capability. It should augment it, it should supplement it. But the AI does have a capability that can process huge quantities of data under the right auspices and direction of a human to get, you know, better, faster results. So let's wrap it up. I don't want to talk too much further. Let's, I guess the next, the last slide. So are we building walls or bridges? Are we going to continue to, to put AI in a container and pretend it's not there or, or, or not really understand within the context of what cognitive is? Our belief is that you can use AI with the proper guardrails and the proper amounts of governance to ensure that, A, it's not hallucinating, B, you're not exposing information you shouldn't be exposing to the Internet and that it's being used in, in positive ways. So that's really the number one question right now, and particularly in higher education and in general, what are, what are we going to do? Because we're living in a world where again, the people that embrace AI and use AI throughout their enterprise, regardless of what they do, are going to have a distinct advantage over those who don't. And I live in a very diverse family. I believe in diversity, equity and inclusion. It's in my core, in my fiber. And I don't want to see people get hurt because they've been told wrongly to avoid using AI in whatever they do in college. K, K12 because people are going to get hurt if they don't really understand that AI is here to stay. It's not a fad, it is here to stay. It's accelerating at an incredible rate. And you know, we're hearing stories. I'm not much into fear mongering and I refuse to do it. There's too much of that already in the media and in the government. But you know, AI is something we all need to confront and take into account, particularly in the college level. So thank you for listening and let's move on into the panel.

All right.

That first of all, we have. Why don't we hear from our two academists? I'm sure they have differing opinions on what I just said. And you certainly want, want to hear that. I'm certainly not in academia. I am in A, how many. I am in AI but you know, I Did have a daughter and I was intensely involved in her education and continue to be. So let's open the floor.

Please feel free to unmute and jump right in.

Yeah, Paula, what are your thoughts?

One question I might put out there to help kind of stimulate discussion is even just working right there from the back on in. One of the last notes from that slide were from Policing the Partnership. That's an interesting dynamic that's always kind of been in the classroom. And I guess you could consider different teaching styles, different needs of the students, the different level of class, the type of curriculum that might be needed, come where the tension between that and that mentor. Mentorship is, you know, like in. In the experience that you guys see out there. Again, please just jump in here. Is this the same old concern? The same old tension rehashed? Are we looking at something really new and different here in the experience that you guys have? Again, please unmute and jump in. I'm sure you don't want to just hear me or Richard pontificate all evening.

Okay, go ahead. All right. So one of the things that I was wondering is that, you know, I'm on social media. I might not see the same things my students do. Keep in mind, I also teach. I mean, I teach 9th through 12th graders. So one of the things that this might go somewhere different is that there are different videos with songs and in statements or whatever using AI. Some of it is funny, some of it is horrific. I'm not going to mention one person who has his own media company and he's just. I'm sorry. Okay, so I'm going to move on from that. But anyway, what I was thinking was that especially listening to Richard was that AI is actually a good thing. However, I think that too many people put too much into it as opposed to learning. And I get it. Some people just don't have the capacity for long term memory and. But I still think, I mean, just like one of the things that.

When.

I was in school, we had to memorize our timetables and now it's. It's not there. And we're supposed to.

Really.

Thanks.

And then Phil hasn't gotten his. But there was a couple there. I didn't know what he wanted to do.

All right, cool, thanks. So the other thing is like when we. We give the kids tests, we're not supposed to let them rely on their memory because kids get frustrated and whatnot. So we have to give them calculators. But the thing that I see with AI is that the kids aren't committing anything to memory. It's short term memory, you understand what I mean? So they're not remembering anything. They just learn enough or turn in enough just to say I did it. But what did you actually learn? Because that's one of the things that teachers are graded on. What do the kids actually learn? Are they learning anything from your class? So I mean, in one instance, AI is great because it's helping them to figure things out, but they're not learning anything. And then for me, I was told that I could use Copilot or Snapchat, no, that other chat gbt, right, to do my lesson plans. And truthfully that sounds great, but it's more confusing to me only because I'm used to, this is what I gotta do, this is what I got to do, this is what I got to do. And if I use co pilot or chat gbt, when you ask me later on about my lesson plans, I'm not going to remember. Even though they say, well, yeah, you can do your lesson plans for six weeks, I'd rather just do them on the computer. So I think in the long run it, it's, it's useful in some ways and it's helpful in some ways, but I don't think it really makes the person any smarter. I think it just makes them craftier as to how they can get the work done.

You know, that's a very interesting question and I might ask further. You know, it seems like we've had a similar kind of discourse. I'm sure whatever was before calculators to being able to open a book during a test, then having calculators, then having search, just computers, then having search engines, and now AI. I wonder if this is more of the same or this is fundamentally different. And even if it is fundamentally different, are there any lessons learned from those other inflection points that still apply? Or is even the playbook, even the answer key thrown out the window too?

Yeah, I think what I hear, and again, these are very valid points, especially the part about AI not making a child smarter. And I would agree with that. If they're not using AI the way it optimally should be used, and again, that is to have a conversation around the subject matter to expand the horizons of what you're understanding. If you're using AI to just shortcut or to cheat or because you just want to get through it and get done, is that AI's fault or is that a basic core attribute of the student? And I think the bigger worry that I have in listening to this conversation is AI can basically create a cadre or a small subset of incredibly bright and accomplished students. Students. But what about everybody else? And the answer to that is AI can be used to equalize the pace and the speed and the interest that every kid has in the same classroom if you tailor and target not just the content of the lesson plans, but the way it's taught, the speed, the ability to revisit where that student might have challenges in a particular fundamental in an area like math or science and double down on where they need a little bit more time and attention to be able to keep up. I think, you know, if students really felt that they could, they could learn something and accomplish something in school, I think you'd see a drastic difference in their attitude, their attention span, and their commitment to. To education. I think the laziness may come from, you know, perhaps their own resistance on not wanting to put forth the effort, or perhaps frustration and not being able to learn things as well. But, you know, I can be that great equalizer. And this extends into. Even into students who have special needs. You know, so ultimately, I think AI can get us to a place where we have a completely homogenized classroom. You know, do away with these special classes, which I hate. You know, it's just another container to put kids in as well as gifted and talented classes. Right. Which is on the other end of the spectrum. My daughter was in a gifted and talented class, and a lot of the parents in her school hated it because they thought that it was creating an elitist double standard of academia. Instead of what it was, was kids who are a little bit further along could, as a collective, work in a different classroom and accelerate their learning. There's nothing wrong with that. Why would you hold back a superior student because they're a faster learner and put them in a general ed situation with everybody else. So, you know, AI can be that great equalizer in the classroom to help lift up those kids who might need a little more time or might be slower in learning or have difficulty learning. You know, we all were in that boat, right? None of us were a students in every subject. At least I wasn't. I sucked in Spanish and other parts of. I never even took calculus because I knew I'd fail it. But maybe if I had AI as my tutor, I could have passed it.

You know, it's interesting. I think I want to revisit that curriculum question. Kind of illuminating, maybe unpacking a little bit what you just said, Richard, and addressing something you brought up, Julene, that, you know, in that Curriculum, especially when you're looking at or is. Are students using AI to solve the, to meet the curriculum, to complete assignments from the curriculum and teachers possibly using it to generate curriculum. You know, what's the real meaningful value there? Because it sounds like we're at risk of a feedback loop. And how, what, let me pose like this. What would be valuable there? Because folks are going to use aids to help them complete a job. You know, teachers are going to use things to help them make more efficient. Students are going to use things that just make learning easier. So that learning piece, you know, what is that? What might that be tangibly look like? What does it mean that the student learned something? Is that recalling something? Is that figuring out a process? Is that understanding a system? You know, what does, what's the essence of that, that learn learning activity. And this is certainly an open ended question. I'm interested to hear everybody's different take on that.

I think for me it can be helpful. And artificial intelligence is, it can be a great thing. But so I'm going to compare it to the. Have any of you ever seen the movie Wally?

Yes.

Okay, Right, right, so. And in part of the movie, you know, everybody's just so dependent on artificial intelligence that everyone just gets overweight and they stop doing things. And when the system fails, then people have to think for themselves. So what happens when people have to think for themselves? Just like, you know, you go to the markets now. I used to be a cashier when I was in high school and there was a time or two we didn't have computerized stuff. We just had the regular ding, ding, ding, you know, cash register. And sometimes the cash register would just fall apart and you had to figure out what the customer's change was. It would give you the whole thingy, but it, it just wouldn't compute how much the customer gave you. And that was before credit cards and debit cards and EBT cards. So you had to rely on your smarts in order to figure it out. I also used to be a turnpike toll collector and sometimes the machine would bring that break down. You had to figure it out on your own. And my concern is that when you use AI, so many people are not going to be able to figure it out on their own. You know, and we're, as an educator, you, you instill in the students that you have to figure it out. What happens when everything breaks down? What are you going to do? Because you're not going to always have technology. Your car is not going to always work, your, your phone is not going to always be online. There might be a time or two when you forgot to pay the bill. And you can't calculate the tip. You can't calculate anything. You have to use your brain. And I think that AI just makes it too easy for people. And I mean maybe, well, I'm almost 60, so maybe that's where I'm coming from because maybe I'm just too old to understand and see things. But I'm not saying that AI is not a good thing. It can be. But I still think that people still need to think for themselves and work things out.

I would agree with that. And I think the one thing that we want to be mindful of is kids still need to know the fundamentals. If you don't know the fundamentals, you don't know how to use AI to assist you in extending what you know foundationally to make, to grow and become faster, better, smarter and more accomplished. It's, it's, it's kind of like as an entrepreneur you can't, you can't delegate what you don't inherently know how to do yourself. And I think that's the comparison that I would think about in the use of AI in a learning environment. It does not substitute kids having to learn the fundamentals. They must learn the fundamentals and then learn how AI can supplement what they know foundationally. Because you're right, if they skip past that and go right into AI, then yeah, we're going to end up with a society of people just outsourcing everything they do to an intelligence. And then you've got science fiction based stuff down the road, you know, telling a singularity, telling us that, you know, these massive AI organizations and or platforms are going to start thinking for themselves. And that's not good if we're not thinking too.

I agree. There's so many different movies, is so many different instances that you can refer back to iRobot. That's one. The other thing is I thought it was a good movie actually, but it, it made you think what happens when artificial intelligence tries to take over humanity? And then it's just like, well, where are you? Where were you in all of this? You know what I mean? And, and what that means is what were you thinking? How were you not trying to.

Do.

Your life or go through your life without artificial intelligence? And I'm not saying that it's completely bad because it's a great thing. I mean I've heard about these Tesla cars and I'm like, oh, that's great. But what happens if the Tesla car has a malfunction while it's on the highway getting you from point A to.

Point B. Yeah, that's true. And even though I remember Elon Musk argued a number of years ago when one of his cars crashed and killed somebody, his response was, well, that car had a million hours driving on the highway. You could not have a human being behind the wheel of a car for a million hours and not have dozens of accidents likely that would be lead to fatalities, let alone a single accident that led to a fatality. So that's why we're trying to throw back on.

I have to disagree because I've been driving since I was 16, so I had maybe one accident. No, I take that back. Two. And neither one of them were my fault. Yeah, so I'm just saying there's, you know, you can do the rebuttals and it's, it's. All I'm saying is I think it can be a good thing. But I think that we still need to make sure that people have the fundamentals and they still need to know what they need to know.

Yeah, it's, it's almost like you take the, the initial course you take is fundamentals. No AI whatsoever. And then maybe the next course is, okay, you now have the fundamentals. Let's introduce AI in a limited capacity so that you can begin to see how to use that in, in your preferred curriculum or major. And then as you kind of get further along then, you know, perhaps it becomes more and more advanced at how you use AI. I mean, bottom line is somebody has to figure out what the formula is. But denial or ignoring it or blaming AI because it's a substitute for what people students gravitate towards instead of good work habits and good study habits, is that really AI's fault or is that the student doesn't have the, the level of dedication that they should in really doing the schoolwork, doing the work.

So Richard, you mean teacher?

I'm going to say it's the parents fault.

But you know.

Rajiv, I heard you speak up.

Sorry.

No problem. The part that you were just saying, Richard, is the fact is we've got to take them through the fundamentals. And, and you remember in one of your slides you were talking about the curiosity, the ability to expand and I think using the Socratic method it does that. Right. But not many. If you look at a lot of, even from the high school K through 12, no one's really using Socratic other than in some schools who are getting much better results in some sort of private schools or charter schools or a teacher who's decided to. To do things a little bit different. And what that does is it creates the curiosity and it allows these kids to learn how to question. Right? Meaning when I use the word question is, how would I do this? Why should it do what happens? So we have to create that level of inquisitiveness. And you hit that point. Well, Richard, what we do is we take them through and you make that class more interesting. And in that part of interesting is when you start adding the AI said, you know. Yes. Did you try, you know, give them first part that they would normally use? Yeah, right. To try to, to go with like the old thing of library or Google or wherever you went and got your initial data and you read about it and then you go, how far did you get? Right? And so now they're limited in some of the information they got. Now you open up this channel and say, start here and now use this AI to be able to multiply your learning. Okay? So I think we have to create that level of showing them where there's interest in them growing rather than them cheating. Okay? So I think that's the whole difference is you can cheat and you're going to be dumb and out of work. Okay. You're not going to grow anything or you can use this, learn and get a leg up. I think it also comes from mentoring at different levels. And so when you were talking about a lot of these professors and things like that, when you look at a lot of the major colleges, unless they're. You're paying big dollars, a lot of those classes because they're research colleges, the head guy who has all the knowledge, he's involved in research, They've got some TAs teaching the classes, you know, especially at the undergrad level. So again, the foundation is not being laid properly. So I think like you said, our whole educational system From K through 12, as well as at collegiate level really needs some introspection to say, what are we producing? And even when you're looking at some of the mental issues and things like that, you go, why are we having so much of that happen? And that comes back is if you don't have lack of, lack of confidence, lack of purpose, lack of all of these different things, they only make you depressed because you don't have any path going forward. I think, you know, we need to look at our education system and say, because the word edgy really means is to bring from within, improve what you already have. God has given Us these gifts and what we need to do is help our kids discover it, then they own it.

I think that's a beautiful mic drop moment right there, but.

Hey, Paul.

Yeah. So I'm hearing out on the outside, right, Seeing a lot of teachers and how they are reacting in regards to how their students are using the AI component. So majority of the universities are now opting out of AI when it comes to evaluation and they're asking verbal assessment and also handwritten assessment to actually identify the knowledge of the student if they're actually performing or not accurately in their skills. Right. So those are things that. Sorry, I didn't have the camera. So those are things that are actually occurring now, right. When we go into AI elementary school, you know, some kids, they want to finish their work fast, right? They know that they have to do an assessment, they have to do their homework and they just want to get it over and done with. That's just kind of their mentality, right, like everyone else. So they see it as, oh, I have my own assistant that can do my homework for me and that's it. It's overdone soon so they can continue gaming. It's just the reality of what is happening, right? So the idea is that they want to go into their own little world, into trying to figure out how to be the best in gaming, in trying to turn in a report and trying to be able to get a good grade, right. They still have that mentality of how to do it. The, the, the scenario now for them is how can I do it faster? Because I don't want to deal with it and I want to do more things, right? I want to do things that I want. I, that, that satisfy me, right? So I, what I tell teachers is, look, you have, you know, AI is technically like going to the library. It's an extra resource, right? You ask them, okay, what do you, you can ask them questions and that information is going to come out to you, right? But you don't know if that particular prompt or is going to give you the information that you need. Just like when you go to the library and you take a book and you read a book and you don't know if that's going to be covering all the information that you need, right? So it's kind of given examples of that scenario to students to understand that AI is just a resource, right? It could hallucinate depending on the tone that you use. It's make. It's basically just creating awareness is what I'm trying to say. When it's when it comes to AI is creating awareness. We cannot stop it. It's just getting faster and more, you know, everything now is AI. You talk to something and say, I have this AI and I have this and this. It's a different name for the same thing, right? So it's like a browser. So the more you want, the more information you want. You have to now pay premiums, right? Like if you want Amazon, you want it faster, you got to pay premium. You don't want commercials, you got to pay premium. So it's kind of the same scenario. It is challenging, I have to say, for teachers, you know, but that is something that we have to try to figure out how to do best is, is how that challenge is going to either hinder our performance or advance our performance is, you know, doing that transition of paper into technology into a laptop and now going back to old school because it's just getting out of hand, right? But AI is, is basically giving you a, you know, a better view of, of what could be done, right? For us that we were a little bit, you know, older and had had to go into the actual practice of doing things rather than, you know, just getting an assistant. We had to, to do trial and error, right? We had to see it live. We had to make sure that those things were actually working. One of my suggestions to teachers are just put things in practice. If that is written and if that's the prompt that's coming up based on their questions, put it in practice, let them see it hands on, see if it actually works or not, right? Have them be their own researcher, have them be the one that is, that are, you know, making those assumptions and making sure that that is going to be something reliable for them. Because unfortunately this generation, the young generation that have not had that fear, that have had not had the practice, are vulnerable, right, to anything that could be given to them. And they're just going to believe it and they're just going to assume that that's what it is. And the only way that we can break that pattern is by actually having hands on practice with them. And it's just, just my feedback based on what I do and how I'm kind of educating people in that sense. And what we have to kind of break it's. And it's a great tool. Look, it helps everyone. I'm sure everyone's like, oh, what's the next one?

Right?

Because things are becoming faster. This is about time equals, you know, how many more things can you do within a small period of time? And this is what kids are. They just want to be able to get into that game, be able to do what they want, how they do it. And the one scenario is that is challenging as well is the antisocial component. They're so linked into their, that technology and actually just being on the laptop that is hard for them to communicate. So I think that within lessons, with teachers have that social impact within the classroom. Make them talk, have them talk, have them go back to the basics. Right. Like what we used to do. And that's just what I had to say. Sorry.

Yeah, no, it's a, it's a very interesting point. I know we have to wrap up here. We're a little bit over, but yeah, there, there's no question that teachers, you know, have, have challenges. But on the flip side, I'm always looking at this as if, if you're in school, you almost need counselors who can speak to students and say, hey, yeah, you can take the easy way out, but the big picture is the more you cheat and shortcut, you're cheating yourself. You're not setting yourself up for success. Why wouldn't you want to learn how to use this new tool to advance yourself? Yeah, you can get your work done quicker, but you can also be more effective. You can be smarter, you can learn different things, more things. You can find out quicker what you want to be in life. You know, I mean, I think there are just ways that we need to, you know, I think, as Rajeev said, take a step back and think through how do we prepare students for the inevitability of AI, but position it in a way that they see it as an advantage to who they are, what they can be, but not as a substitute to get them to go gaming. And because it can reduce their homework time from 30 minutes to 5 minutes or whatever that number is. So there's a kind of a paradigm shift, you know, in, in our students that has to happen I think in order for them to embrace AI as a, as a way, in a positive way to help them grow faster, bigger, better and, and to give them hope, you know, in a, in a very convoluted, very challenging world. Yeah, to give them hope that, hey, you know, this, this can really help me, what the heck, to, you know, to run my own million dollar company. The sky is the limit. You know, instead of goofing off, I should be thinking about that.

Well, the thing is this also on that part, Richard, you and I, because we're working with special needs and others, part of it is Also the gamification, right? If these kids are wanting to. They get attracted to the game. Maybe part of the education using AI is to give them a challenge that makes it almost a game, make it more interesting. I think that's part of the paradigm shift, is we're trying to use lesson models and methodologies and trying to figure out how to do it. We need to change the delivery of our education so that it becomes more intriguing. And you know how it is when we're talking about, even from a younger age, you know, context. If you don't have context, how do you have perspective? You know, how do you make it grow? So I think part of it is all the context I was doing something with, again, for early childhood. You go, imagine if we were to try to tell a person, taste. How do you show taste? On a tablet. On a tablet, okay. Or smooth to rough. You know how when we talk about kids, to be able to have the tactile elements, to be able to tell the difference so they can do things, Those are the areas that also are so essential to anybody growing from a young age to older. So there might be similarities depending upon where we're bringing this AI is how do we create an experience? And, you know, as we look at things, we buy experiences, we never buy the product. So the key is, can we change the experience of the education so that now they're intrigued because they see it as, wow, this is fun. So again, they can achieve various different things. We just have to think a little bit deeper. I know we're out of time, but just wanted to say Paula's input was very good on her part, you know, on. On what she's seeing out there. We just, I think, have to constantly look at ways of our delivery to engage the kids in a different manner. We're using an old technique and trying to just put a band aid of AI in it or keep it restricted. We go, well, change, man. Just because you've been doing this for 30 years, you're not going to exist. You're not going to be helping the kids who are going to come in the next five years. Maybe you want to adapt.

Yeah, great, Great point, Rajiv.

Yeah.

Well, this has been a fabulous panel. So informative. Chris and I thank you so much for your amazing contributions, everyone. Chris, thank you indeed.

You know, again, thank you, everybody, for participating to this. It kind of sounds like one of the things we might just go. Go back to is, hey, maybe we just start every class with, this is how you're going to. If you're going to use AI. This is how you use it successfully. If not, well, then come what may. Your grade is on your own head. So again, thank you all for for joining us this evening for this Cognify Insight Network webinar. Again, this is part of a the Cognify Inside Network community. If you have not joined this community and I appreciate and am thankful for a couple of new faces here, I encourage you to check a couple links in the chat and go ahead and click through there. If you're catching us on the replay, click a couple of links down below. That should bring you to the community. I believe It's Community CognitiveSolutions AI where you can find out more of these types of webinars we're having. If you want to ask follow up questions on these webinars because they never seem long enough, please go ahead and join that community. Jump in there, ask some questions. We'll be glad to engage with you, be glad to show share other resources with you and with one another and ultimately see how the community can support the community. Because that's kind of the point. All right. So again I thank you for your time. I thank you for your attention, for joining us this evening, for finding it not robbery that give us a little more than an hour over of your time. Thank you so much. We truly hope you'll join us again next time. Again feel free to drop your your information in the chat to follow up with us. We'd love to schedule one on one and please keep an eye on your emails and we'll make sure we some additional feedback. Thank you again. Have a wonderful evening and Happy holidays.

Who too. Thank you.

Happy Holidays.

Happy Holidays.

God Bless.

Take care.