From Incarceration to Impact with Kyle Fowler

Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Parent Whisperer podcast. I'm Richard Ramos, your host, and I want to thank you, all of you that are subscribing. I really appreciate it. My goal in doing this podcast is to reach more people, obviously to reach more families. I started off, you know, with the curriculum, just training parents myself, and then that grew into me training other people to teach the classes so that I'm not the only one. And then I wrote some books. And what am I doing? I'm trying to help as many families as possible. So when you write a review, when you watch these videos, first of all, I I'd love you to subscribe. I mean, I know everybody that watches them doesn't subscribe, but that would really help me if you would. We've hit our mark of over 1,000 subscribers, but now we want to get to the next level. And so that's going to happen because you share these videos with friends and family that you think would be helped by them. So when you leave a review, YouTube loves that. When you share them, they obviously love that. And then I would love to hear your comments or any questions that you Please send them. I love reading that, and then I will always respond to you if you have a specific question. So today I'm excited to have a special guest of mine, a friend of mine that I've known for several years now, actually. His name is Kyle Fowler. He is the Assistant Director of Employer Engagement at the Second Chance Center in Aurora, Colorado. He is now— he is my first and only master certified POM trainer. Now, what does that mean? Before him, I was doing all the trainings. So in order for somebody to teach my curriculum, the classes, they have to be certified in a 3-day training that I conduct. But I want that to grow more. And so I created a master certified training. It's a little more in depth. I require a little bit more for people to show that they really— first of all, that they've taught at least 4 classes, and that they— it's a short exam to demonstrate that they have in-depth knowledge. And Mr. Fowler here. Is the first one to complete that, um, training. And so, uh, Kyle, welcome to the program.

Thank you. Great to be here. And, uh, thank you for the, the mentorship. And yeah, I think I did 10, 10 groups before we, we talked about, uh, this master certification. So, wow.

Had to make sure.

And, and the thing that, that Richard left off though is I had to teach his curriculum to him. And that's not a, not an easy thing to do when, when the apprentice is trying to teach the master.

Yeah, no, I, I did that on purpose, as you know, because, you know, it is a challenge and I know that. But also, I want to mention, Kyle, you, you were in one of the trainings I did years ago in Colorado, and I think we had it in the basement of some foundation building, and there were other people from other nonprofits there in Colorado. And I remember when you were part of that, part of that. How was it? Was that your first time through Parents on a Mission?

Yeah, that was my first time with direct exposure because there was another, another staff. His name is Tosh. He was teaching Parents on a Mission, but he was only teaching it in a women's halfway house. And I kept thinking when I got employed with the Second Chance, and I'm like, how do I sneak into that, that class? Because I want what's going on in that class. And then I got approached by her deputy executive director, she's like, hey, you're justice-involved. You're a dad. I think you can facilitate. How would you feel about going through and becoming a facilitator for this? And I was like, heck yeah, because that means I get the parenting class that I want. Because it's one of those things like you can do any number of things, but like, I wanted this class. I wanted this training. I was trying to seek it out, but I didn't know how, how to go about it. And then it just like God put it in my hands, like, hey, you wanted it. Here you go. I'm going to make this happened for you. And yeah, so that was the first big exposure to it.

Yeah. So, and so we're going to talk more about Parents on a Mission. But Kyle, give people a sense of your background. I mean, you've been through some, you know, some things, and, and I'm just so proud of your journey, you know, because a lot of people that watch this YouTube channel, and they have, they're going, they've gone through a lot of stuff. So why don't you share a little bit about you?

Yeah. So, where I grew up, I grew up in a small rural town in Kansas. My parents are divorced. You know, my dad went through his life struggles and different things and, you know, got a lot of love and support, went through college and got married, had jobs and built success. And we had 3 really great kids. You know, I got 2 boys and a daughter. Daughter. Um, and everything looked good on the outside, but I wasn't addressing interpersonal, like, uh, hurts and pains that I grew up with. I never addressed it. I kept shoving it to the side, and it exploded one day inside of my life and, uh, took me down a path and, uh, led to me being arrested. Um, arrested in front of my sons. And so I spent 4 months in county jail. And, you know, my marriage was falling apart inside of that. I released— I was homeless, jobless, and I had to rebuild my whole life. And through, again, just progression, you know, I got a new job, I got housing, started rebuilding myself, went from that job into an organization called Honest Jobs and got to rebuild that with them. a career, which led me to the Second Chance Center, and where they eventually took me on and I became a care manager. Oh, like, there has been the ups and downs and struggles. My ex-wife and I are not on good terms. She is a good person. She is a good mom to my, to our children. It is just we, we do not get along well. And so, it is a very high-conflict situation and a lot of, a lot of fight. To try and spend time with my children, and in all transparency, you know, I had my last my last court appearance, and and you and I had talked as we were going through the master of those things.

Right.

I didn't win. I didn't. So when somebody says, man, I'm I'm really going through it, and things aren't looking good, I can tell them like, hey, everything might look good on the outside, but like everybody's got stuff they're going through, and I I I truly know the difficult. difficulties and challenges and different things. And I have actually, one of my coworkers, he is going through some stuff right now for that. And I am leading him through a process through, through my personal journey and experience and helping him get prepared for his own advocacy and fight for, for his children.

Right.

None of this is easy, but it is worthwhile no matter what the outcome is. If you fight for it, if you put forth the effort, it's always worth it because you can always look back and say, no matter the outcome, I gave everything I possibly had.

Yeah, we're— you know what, Kyle? We're having a little bit of technical difficulty. You're freezing up.

Oh.

Which is okay. But, um, just so people out there know, I just, you know, he's freezing up a little bit, breaking in and out, but you can hear and understand most of what he's saying, which is he was just explaining that he's gone through a custody battle and didn't win that battle. Um, but it's worth fighting for the right thing. And, um, that's basically what he was sharing, right? Is that right, Kyle?

Yep, 100%. Yeah. And so, you know, this class has really helped me, uh, in so many different ways, not just parenting, in mentoring, personal growth and development, understanding of me better. Um, I always tell the, the, the folks, you know, I'm not— while I'm leading you, I'm going through this class with you each and every time. So we're both going through a journey, which is Wonderful and incredible every single time. But yeah, this you know it was transformational for me, and I wanted it. You know, and I something told me if I get into this this program, only good things are going to be be coming out the other side of it.

And that that's what I want people to hear. You guys that are out there listening, it's transformational. And you know, I know that I've been doing this a long time. I've seen transformation after transformation. But for me to say it is one thing, but for you to hear it from other people— I didn't know Kyle other than when he was in the class. That's when I met him. And he's saying it himself, it's been transformational for him. And even though he's battling, you know, unfortunately those things happen. But would you say, Kyle, that the principles you've learned in Parents on a Mission are helping you through this time that you're Going through.

100%. Um, you know, one of the things, you know, uh, that was so eloquently put in the book, we, you know, perception. We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are.

Right.

And to be able to look at things with different perception and different views, different things like that, um, does help. Um, and, you know, we learn about delayed gratification and, you know, good things come to, come to those who wait and the law of the, law of the harvest, you know.

Right.

Being the farmer, you know, and you, you just can't fight nature and you just have to go along with it. And there'll be victories, there'll be losses, but 100%, if you, if you go with it, it'll work out in the end. And very much like this has helped shape part of my, my demeanor and, and how I interact, not just within my own children and those things, but like Anybody you know that's going through things. This has helped me as I help coach and mentor all sorts of folks in many different ways and things. It's given me some great insights into how to effectively help people in a greater capacity, not just my own children.

Yeah. So for dads and moms out there, Kyle, that are listening to you, what? Is there maybe— I mean, there's, you know, many principles that we teach. What would— is there one or two that have really, you know, stuck out to you to help you that you would want to share with people that are listening?

Yeah, you know, one of the best and toughest ones, especially because I worked with just solely the Justice of All population, is that lesson on forgiveness, forgiveness of others, Um, you know, seeking forgiveness. And most importantly, the most difficult one is forgiveness of self, you know. Um, so that's a huge one. Um, and just that, like, you know, um, that offering of pre-forgiveness, you know, like, right, listen, we're human. Everybody's going to mess up. Everybody's going to misstep. We're going to mess up still. We're going to still not do things the best way. We're going to find the worst way to do something yet. And biggest thing is having the, the pre-forgiveness in our hearts for those in our lives, um, for ourselves to learn, to grow, to mature. And I really think, like, really, um, Lesson 2, the entire Lesson 2, which is all personal growth and development, like nothing else that we teach and go through within the curriculum can hold without that cornerstone, without that proper foundation that we set there. None of the rest of it will sit there. So like that, that investment of yourself and into yourself to grow and become the best, better version of you for yourself first and foremost, and then everybody else. You're, uh, if you will, you're exposed to radiation, and so now you radiate, but you can radiate this good stuff to other people that people are like, man, there's something different. I want to be a part of that. Like, what's going on? And then you're able to help or facilitate or lead somebody to the source of like help and growth and maturity. I think that's the other thing is, uh, is that maturity. Because sometimes we can be adults and still behaving, acting, having, um, a decision-making process that's not as mature as what our age would say. And so how do we grow up? How do we mature into these adults that are Leading our children.

Right.

And another component nugget is, again, like the loyalty and trust of our children. We, we have it. It's just given early, but also early on, there's so many wolves at the door that want to steal it, want to have it, influence and all that. And they're like the consistent battle for our children's heart. Minds, loyalty, their soul, um, to where the family is the first place where they have safety, security, advice. They have those things, and everything else in life are tack-ons or supplements or, or beneficial things. But the family's the first place to where, like, they feel safe and secure. But we've got to do so much thankless work, especially in different periods of time in our children's lives, that you're not going to get thanked. The reward is not there. The harvest is not on the horizon for a long, long time, but eventually it will come. But like, being willing to put in that work.

Yeah. So as you can see, everybody, he's well-versed, and that's why he's a master certified trainer. But 2 things I like to share with people. One is that parents make the mistake— well, people in general make the mistake— that their age equals maturity, and that's not true. We we think that the older I get, well, the smarter and more mature I get because now I'm thirty or thirty-five or forty, and that's just not true. And so we teach that how you can have it be thirty-five, but you still have a fifteen-year-old mentality. And then when you have a fifteen, your kids grow up, and then now you got an immature parent dealing with an immature kid. But he's a kid. So that's one thing. And the other thing about forgiveness that I like to always share is that. You don't need an apology to forgive somebody, and that's a huge, I think, kind of almost like a revelation to people. Like, oh, what? It's like, yeah, you don't. That person may be dead. They may be out of your life. You may never see them anymore, but yet you're hanging on to what happened. I went through that with my my dad. It's a story that I tell, how basically I had to come to a place where understanding that a dead man, because my father died when I was eighteen. He was controlling my life still because I, I, I wasn't releasing, letting go of you know what we went through when I was growing up. So that's an important point about forgiveness is that you don't need an apology. So also tell us a little bit in a nutshell. Tell us a little bit about Second Chance Center. You know what do you guys do?

Yeah, so we are a nonprofit reentry program resource center. So individuals that come from prison, halfway houses, uh, we do have some programs for those that are on probation, but we work with those individuals to provide wraparound services. So we get them paired up with a care manager. They get plenty of case managers, so they get a care manager here. We address like Uh, basic life needs. We provide meals for individuals twice a day, hot home-cooked meals. And then with my department, once somebody's kind of got some stabilization underneath them, we start bringing them up into our employment lab. And so that's where we spend and invest a good amount of time developing career readiness skills, resumes, interview processes. Background checks are a thing. Our folks come with backgrounds. So when, where, how do we talk about those in a meaningful way that helps progress thrust me forward and not just a true crime story out there that, like, people are not sure what to do with. And then we work to help bring employers to the table to get connected, to partner with us, to learn what is fair chance hiring, how do we do it. Maybe I've been doing it, but maybe I could do it better. And just providing aid and help in that.

That's great.

And then we have some apprenticeship programs, you know, with construction and tree force and all that. And then programming, mentorship. So, like, we offer Parents on a Mission, uh, is my Uh, not biased at all, but we also do 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. We have a peer support group called the Never Going Back Group. Our founder, Hassan Latif, wrote a book, The 7 Steps to Never Going Back to Prison. So we have a support group that goes through those, uh, those things. And then we just started a peer navigator program for individuals with lived experience to gain skill sets to go into the helping field. Whether that's working with homeless, working with those that are justice-involved, addiction recovery, anything like that to help them get a foundational foothold there. And that's a little bit about what we do.

And you guys also provide housing, don't you?

We do.

Temporary housing.

Yeah. So we have 2 long-term housing programs. We just launched our second one in October where individuals that have been chronically homeless now have a place through a voucher system where they have a place to live, call their own. There's no deadline on it. And that has tremendously helped many children with parents that were displaced and homeless go back to school and start getting back into education because now they have stability, they have a place for themselves. And then we, we do have a couple of, um, transitional houses that we work with that we have leases on. So people parole there, have stabilization Start building up and then move forward into their own independent housing. And then we work with a number of different organizations and places for helping individuals get into long-term housing stabilization, because if somebody has housing, they have employment, and then they have coaching, mentoring, then we have community change, and we're out there making the communities better. When people don't have those things, unfortunately, Well, what do I have left? What do I have to lose if if I don't do the right things? You know, I got nothing to lose. But if I have those things, I have fear of loss, and that's that's a powerful motivator.

Yeah, big big time. So for those of you listening, you might be in Aurora, Colorado, or anywhere near there, and you're saying, man, I need or I know somebody that needs these kind of services, or I need these kind of services. I'll put the contact information in the show notes. When when this episode comes out, it might come out tomorrow actually. So we'll make sure to get get the information. But I also want to give a shout out and give a little bit of backstory to Second Chance Center because I met the founder Hassan Latif. Gosh, I don't know; it's almost twenty years ago or so. I forget exactly how many years, but we were holding. I was the founder, am the founder, was the executive director of the Latino Coalition for. Community leadership, a national intermediary. We received funding to give funding. And at that time, so we had money to give in Colorado, and Hassan showed up. And I forget exactly the conversation, but basically what he was saying was, you know, he wasn't sure we would fund them. And, but he was there. And he pointed to his car and he said, That's the Second Chance Center, the trunk of his car, because out of the trunk of his car, he was given his book, The 7 Steps to Never Going Back. And we gave, I believe, the first grant we gave them, you guys at that time, was $200,000. I think something like that. It was a huge amount for him because he had never received that kind of money before. That was when you guys really had nothing.

Yep.

And now, and I'm saying that so people are listening. Look at where they've come, all the development and all the growth, and and people that they're serving coming out of jail, coming out of prison, people on probation, men and women. So what makes me so happy and proud is that they've adopted the Second Chance Center has adopted Parents on a Mission as one of their programs. So I want to move into that right now, Kyle. Talk a little bit how that works, and you know, kind of where you. were teaching and then, uh, where you are now.

Yeah. So, um, once I became certified, like right away, I, uh, I got my first group going and I was only facilitating inside of a men's halfway house.

And how many years ago was that?

3.

Okay.

Over 3. 'Cause, um, I got certified in March of 2023 and I think it was like April I was starting my first class. I was like, let's get this going while everything's fresh. Um, and then And every quarter, like, so it worked out is like I was able to run a group every single quarter, but I first started out only doing it in a men's halfway house. And then we were starting to talk about like, we have a lot of people that aren't in that halfway house, women, because this was a men's only facility. So there was a lot of women that wanted to be in that, in the program too. And so I said, hey, what if we started offering it on like a Saturday and we just run it sequentially on Saturday mornings? And so we started doing that. And so then folks from the halfway house, you know, the entirety of the population came in and we started having really full groups. I think I averaged about 10 graduates per, per group out of that Saturday group.

Wow.

And so it was, um, really growing and, and running. And so, uh, but again, it was only because I was only facilitator at the time, uh, we could only do one One class a quarter, so we have a lot of people kind of waiting to get into it. And then, as we've grown, because we have this location, we have the we have a halfway house that we now our staff is operating staff inside of this halfway house called the Morse Center. We have our downtown location, which is working with the Denver County Probation Department and Pretrial Department, and then we have our first permanent supporting housing location called Path with a lot of families there. And that group is a little bit more seasoned and matured. So, like, we have all these groups and they are having trouble making it to this location. And so, that led to once I was able to get master certified where I trained 4 facilitators to begin doing that. 2 of my facilitators have completed. We have a graduation tonight at the Moore Center with a group of guys. And then we will have another one here at the Second Chance Center starting on the 19th. And then my, my PATH Center is, they're in the midst of running, but there's some, some scheduling challenges right now we're working through. So it's really grown. But like, this has been a program that one, Second Chance Center is very firmly behind. And when approached about it, there was no like, should we do it? Should we not? I was like, yes, we need to, because we need to work with more parents. We need to work with more individuals. And helping this. And the great thing that I have seen from this program is I have people that aren't parents do this program. So I have got parents.

That is great.

I have had a great-grandfather who has like 16 grandkids, great-grandkids. He has got a big family. He did the program. And then I have got other folks who are like, hey, I was a parent to one of my siblings and I know how I was doing things wasn't great. I have got folks that have never met their children yet, but they are like, when I I do, I want to be prepared. And then, then there's been folks that they're not parents yet, but they're like, you know, it's a goal, it's an ambition of mine. One day I will be a parent and I want to, I want to be ready. And I'm like, man, I wish I had your thought process when I was young. I wish I wouldn't have been so stubborn and bullheaded that I would have done this so many years ago.

Um, I always like to share that. Sorry to interrupt you. I, I love sharing that with people Yes, this is for— you don't have to have a parent, a kid to come to this program.

Yeah. Well, really, at the end of the day, it's parenting. But what is parenting? It's leadership and mentorship, you know, at its core. And so this is good things for some of our programs. We're actually looking at like, maybe we should have some people go through this program as a prerequisite for something else because of what people come away with. And actually, and I've gotten like some really good successes. Um, so one just got shared, um, the other day with me. Yesterday, our director of care management shared this. Shout out to all of our Parents on a Mission facilitators. Just received this feedback from a client. The parenting class has helped me look more into myself and become a better person and a father to my child.

Wow.

That's phenomenal. One of the challenges, and this was like maybe my my second group that I taught. There was a gentleman in there, and he's like, "You know, I've got two adult daughters and a son, and I've got a granddaughter that I've never met, and I've been in and out, in and out, and they don't talk to me." He's like, "I don't know what to do." And so, well, let's take some principles from what we're learning here. I said, "We're not going to call. We're not going to text. We're not going to email every week." You are going to write a letter. That's it. You're going to send a letter. And so every week he he eventually ran me out of stamps and letters. I had to go get more. But I was I was like, yeah, like I gave you the idea. I'm here to help you with that. And nothing happened for a good while. And then right as I was getting ready to start another group. He called me the day before. He said, "Hey, I want to let you know my daughters responded." I was like, "Man, that's that's awesome." Wow, wow! That's that's phenomenal. But I said, "Hey, we're not done. You're going to continue writing letters and doing this because we got some work to do to work." forgiveness back into your life from their side to get that contact. And, and he did it. He kept, he kept consistent, and I'm so proud of him.

Yeah. Oh my God. You know, see the— okay, again, I'm going to address the crowd out there. This is what happens. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard this story of forgiveness and reconciliation between mom and daughter Mom and son, dad and son, dad and daughter, grandparents and their grandkids over and over and over again. And what does that tell us? That tells us that in families, there are so many things that happen. You know, none of us are perfect. I'm not perfect. I'm still learning and growing. You know, I still make mistakes. I mean, who doesn't? But that's not the issue. The issue is what do you do about it? So here's a grandfather looking for direction, doesn't know what to do. His daughter and grandkids don't talk to him. I mean, can you imagine that? Like what they're carrying, like the ugliness and the bitterness and the— what is that, that you don't want to talk to your grandfather? I mean, you know, the daughter not talking to the dad, well, you know, that's one thing. But the grandkids. But so he's looking for direction, and here's Kyle with a simple, easy-to-implement sit down and write a letter. And look what happened. That's so powerful, man. I don't know if you want to share one more, if you have something.

So I had a woman that went through my class last year, and she was Working her way forward through, uh, through a program and, uh, working towards having custody again of her, of her, uh, I think it was her daughter. And I had Department of Human Services call me. And I always tell people, listen, this course is not course mandated, but it is court recognized. And because you voluntarily do this, it looks different because you're choosing to do this. Nobody's telling you to do this.

Right.

And so I had Department of Human Services call me about this client, and they're like, hey, I see they took Parents on a Mission. I'm not super familiar. I said, well, do you have a few minutes? And she's like, yeah. And so I went through and I started breaking down like, hey, these are the 6 lessons. These are the chapters. This is the content. These are what we work on. This is self-development, all this other stuff. Because the— how this, uh, individual, uh, approached the conversation is, I'm thinking that she needs to do some additional classes. And I said, that's fair. You know, like, whatever you determine that she needs to do to be in her daughter's life, absolutely. And by the end of our conversation, that individual said, you know, I think she's done sufficient work to to do this. I'm I'm satisfied. I don't think she needs. I said, that's your call, not my call. I appreciate your confidence in. The program, not me, but the program that she went through, and what she learned and got from this. You know, and you know, so that was that was really powerful to be like, yep, look look at what this class is doing to help reunite and bring this family back together. Because at the end of the day, for for what we do here, the reunification is is essential because there's some that have had contact. But, you know, the fear, the greatest challenge is, well, I have been removed from my child's life for X amount of time where I might be in contact with them. I may not be in contact. They may not even know who I am yet. But now I come home. How do I be an effective parent? And we even talk about that in the course, right?

Yeah.

But how do I be a parent and have authority when I have been removed? I have done this. And it's one of the things I talk about is because you've been a justice-involved parent, because you haven't done necessarily all the right things and you've made the poor choices, the mistakes and these things, you're the best person to lead your child because who better? Because you're not standing on a pedestal saying, I'm perfect, I'm great, I've never made a mistake in my life. You get to stand on, I've messed up and how I've messed up is not how I want, want things for you. I want you to learn from me. And also, our children are going to mess up. Hey, a person that has messed up themselves, they will be like, hey, I am here to help you get yourself back up. I am not here to do it for you.

Right.

But I am here to help you forward. And I know what it is to maybe have to start over or start from scratch and rebuild. But I tell them like, police are not going to make the community safer. Programs are not going to make the community safer. They are going to help. But you as a parent leader, making your community safer because of who you choose to be now is powerful. And that leads to progressive change. And that makes our communities better because you won't stand for the same things you used to because you've grown, developed, and matured.

That's exactly right. And, you know, the way that Parents on a Mission— the reason that Parents on a Mission was adopted by the Correctional Department in Colorado was because they did not have a family reunification program. And they were looking for one at the time. And it just so happened that Richard Morales, the executive, current executive director of Latino Coalition, he introduced me to the, at the time, the program director. And, you know, I had an interview on the phone. And then I basically, I just said, okay, look, because they were kind of skeptical. What is this? Who are you?

Yeah.

And I said, okay, well, that's fair. I said, but look, I'll do this. Let me come out there and train your staff, and you don't have to pay me. Just— I'll just come. Give me your staff, send me your staff members. And so I did. I did, Kyle, I did back-to-back trainings of 40 staff members. 20 Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, stop at noon, and then 20 Wednesday at 1 o'clock, Thursday and Friday. And I went, they brought me back every year, and I trained at least between 200 and 300 staff members from the Colorado Department of Corrections. And then in 2018, I think that was in 2015, in 2018, the department adopted Parents on a Mission as their official reunification, family reunification program. And man, I was so blessed. But you know, then COVID happened.

Yeah.

And it changed everything. And, you know, they didn't have the staffing and all, you know, a bunch of stuff happened. But anyway, listen, um, I would— I want to thank you for what you're doing, uh, for the man you are, mostly, most important, but also because of you've taken on, you know, this responsibility and you're seeing, you know, lives being changed through it. So I, I just want to really appreciate that about you. So, in ending here, is there anything that I didn't ask you or anything you want to share? Just closing words for the audience.

I think the biggest thing I can say is whatever's happened has happened. Take today for what today is. Move forward. One of the things one of the founders, Mr. Adam, who's still with us, has told me is Virtues are earned; vices are freely given. Fight every day for the for the virtues that that you're earning. Put in the time, put in the work. It's hard, it's ugly sometimes, but man, those are when the best results come about is when you have to fight forward and have to do the hard stuff. But man, is it ever worth it! The person that you get to become, the person that I've gotten to become because of Richard's investment into me and his coaching and mentoring in the program. And the lives changed. Oh man, I can't, uh, I can't put to words.

Well, thank you for that. Well, oh, my pleasure, man. Thank you for sharing all of that. And for those of you that are listening, uh, this is the Parent Whisperer podcast. I'm Richard Ramos. I'm the host and founder of Parents on a Mission. And whatever, uh, wherever you're at, whatever may have happened in your life, It can be healed. It can change. Things can get better. It is work, as Kyle has made that abundantly clear in his comments. It's it's work. It's not easy sometimes to overcome you know some of the things that we've we've done. But we are proof, along with many other people, that we can overcome it. Forgiveness is a huge part of that, and as Kyle mentioned, mostly forgiving ourselves. Yeah, you know, from the things that we may have done. But that is why I designed this program. One of the main reasons I designed it was because I could—I saw families that were just hurting. They needed healing. They needed help. They needed guidance and direction. And so I'm just grateful for people like Kyle and so many others that are teach out there teaching this. So let me say this to all of you that are listening: If there's not a parent on a mission class in your city or your area, there's a few things I want to mention to you very quickly here. Number one, if you like to read my book, everything we teach is in the book. It's on my website, Richard R. Ramos.com. You can go to the, um, my website richardrramos.com, and you can download a free chapter if you just want to check it out. And my other books that are there too, you can download a free chapter if you want to check it out. But that's one thing you can do, you can read the book. Second is this podcast, because in this podcast we go over a lot of the things that we teach, and you're listening to people who come through the program. They've overcome some challenges. So that's another source of encouragement. Third, the whole course is online on my website for— and I'm going to say this— it's only $97. That's 15 videos. Each one of those videos are maybe 12 to 15 minutes long. They're not long. You can watch it at your leisure, take your time. You can invite other people to come and watch them with you, the videos. But the reason I say only $97 is you will not find a program like this online for— that's about a $200 discount, and I can promise you that. As a matter of fact, if you find one like this program cheaper than my $97, let me know, because I do not think you're going to find it. So it's only $97. So anyway, that's another way you can get the course. Because there's no course in you, and you're saying, "Man, I would really like to learn this stuff." That's another way. So you got the book, you got the podcast, and you got the online course there. So I wanted to share that with you once again. Please leave a review, share this video, and I really would appreciate if you subscribe. That really helps me. This is the Parent Whisperer podcast. I'm Richard Ramos, and I always leave you with this message: Mom and Dad. Parents on a Mission is not for bad parents. It's for good parents who want to get better. Thanks for listening. See you next time.