The Farmer’s Role: What to Do When Your Child Won’t Change | Richard and Shannon Morales

Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Parent Whisperer podcast. I'm Richard Ramos, your host. And one of the things I've run into in Parents on a Mission and all the different families and parents that we work with is sometimes parents will have what's called a strong-willed child, or some— if you want to call it stubborn, or if you want to call it rebellious, whatever it is, the issue is it's a challenge. And sometimes parents are trying this and they're trying that. Maybe there's been a lot of discipline, and then more discipline, and then maybe a counselor. But the bottom line is, it is a challenge. It's not easy. I've been through that myself. So we teach— there's something in Parents on a Mission that we teach to help parents through that. Now, when I first was dealing with this issue with parents, I did not know what to tell them what to do. I was a young parent at the time, but dealing with a strong-willed child, somebody who just, you know, in street language, you're just a hard head, and they don't want to cooperate, and you You know, you're trying to do all these things and it's just not working. So then what do you do? So I implemented this strategy that I call the farmer role. And today I have a couple on that I want to bring onto the show who have experienced this. And luckily they've come through this, but they're on the other side of it now, or so to speak. The harvest has come. But what I want to talk about is a little bit is about, you know, what that process was. So. Today I have Richard and Shannon Morales. They're from Colorado Springs, Colorado. Welcome to the show, guys.

Hey, thank you so much, Richard. Happy to join you again.

So yeah, let's talk about it. I remember receiving your email, and that was, you know, a few years ago, and I was just so touched by this email that you sent me because, you know, we're just doing the work. You're doing the work. You're doing the work. But then, you know, when you receive an email or a letter like the one you sent me, it was just so rewarding. But I know the pain you went through. So whichever one of you wants to start, well, you know, how did, how did it go? And what was that process like?

Well, I think, you know, as you pointed out, that letter that I wanted to share with you, because so much of getting through the difficult times was leaning into You know, a lot of the principles that you teach on Parents on a Mission, because it was absolutely the farmer's role. It was all the tilling, it was all the weeding, it was all the stuff that feels like a lot of labor. But getting that labor, getting that letter just really felt like the fruit was there. And that letter was just specific to my son who went into the Army, you know, received a commendation. And it was a significant commendation of him and the training that he was doing. His presence, his his professionalism, and he was presenting in front of generals. And so for us to be thinking, oh man, this kid couldn't make his bed, you know, and now he's doing these things, and we're just like, wow, you know, you do. It may not come in your time, but sometimes you just have to trust the principles and know that that that fruit will come.

Yeah, and just for those of you who aren't familiar with what I mean by farmer's role, I mean very quickly, you know, what does a farmer have to do? It's hard work. They got to. plow the land year after year. They got to seed it. They got to water and cultivate it. And then they got to wait, the patient part, for the harvest. So that is why I call it the farmer's role. So, Shannon, what was that waiting period like for you?

Yeah, it was, it was challenging and frustrating sometimes because you are waiting for the change or you are feel like you're taking, you know, one step forward, two steps back. And really, that waiting period is tough, and it's tough to be patient and have this hope that things will adjust in the future. And it's tough to really be consistent. Sometimes the wait is long, and you have to stick with it.

Right.

Even if you're tired and frustrated and, you know, disappointed and struggling with those things, that you just know that if you keep You know, being consistent and moving forward, you'll get there. It is, but the waiting, it's tough. It's a tough, it's a tough period. It's a, it's a chance, I would say, for growth as a parent as well.

Yeah. And I, you know, I've been through it myself. And sometimes, you know, backslide to the old me, just wanting to, you know, I want that fruit right now, you know. But You know, I learned a lot of this stuff from, as you know, Stephen Covey, and he would always say, you can't pull up the roots to see how the plant is doing. You know, and it's so true because, you know, it's hard. And, and sometimes I, I would just get so angry, like, why aren't you getting this? Like, this is just like ABC stuff, you know. But, you know, you guys know what that's like.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, and I just want to, you know, point out with Shannon is, is, yeah, it was that opportunity to work on ourselves because that was the only thing at the end of the day I had control over.

That's right.

Instead of reacting, how am I responding? Because it wasn't just about, you know, one child. We had 2 other children. So kind of what are we role modeling and demonstrating in those moments? But also knowing that, you know, when, when those children were kind of getting a little off track, not to overreact.

Yeah.

And so they're not getting some of the other child's frustration that, that we're having with this other child. So it was, you really have to check in with yourself and it's hard and you, we didn't always get it right. You know, um, but I think, you know, part of the things you said, the power of the apology, you know, when I didn't get it right, go to the child and say, hey, you know what? I was really frustrated and I, I shouldn't have, you know, yelled at you like that. That wasn't that big a deal. I'm sorry. And that took care of a lot of stuff. I was really surprised.

Yeah, so all of you listening out there, Richard just touched on two key points. This is really the main point that we try to get across to mom and dad. It's about us. It's about working on ourselves because, as Richard said, you know, ultimately you can't control your kids. I mean, that's not what this is about. You know, you could kind of control them if you—I mean, when they're little, you can kind of. Bribe them or threaten them, you know. But when they get older, that stuff doesn't work. So really what it comes down to is me, you know. What what am I doing maybe that's adding to this problem? And that that really is is the the crux of it. The second thing he said was apologizing. I mean, what a concept! You know, this is this is not hard. Well, the idea of it, the concept to do it though. So it isn't, isn't always easy to admit as the dad, the parent, the mom. Okay, you know what? I need to go to the room, knock on the door, what, you know, whatever, and say, hey, I'm sorry. So Shannon, I'm sure you've been— oh, and before you answer, Shannon, um, the other thing is you have 2 younger kids.

Yeah.

And they're watching this. And they're learning and they're hearing. So anyway, what did you feel about that, Shannon? Or maybe did Richard do all the apologizing?

Wait. No, I— it was a challenge. I think it— the apologizing is so important, so key, because yeah, we're not perfect. I think as a mom, I think there's the frustration, but there's also the hurt. You know, when it's— it can be hurtful, some of the behaviors and reactions on their part. And I think sort of being able to say, yeah, that was hurtful to me, but they know I'm always going to be here. So that's the important piece. Like, I'm always going to be here. It's hurtful, but— and I'm going to apologize when I get it wrong. And modeling that and knowing that they may not hear the words, they may not, um, listen to everything you're saying, but they're definitely paying attention to what your behaviors and what you're doing as more of a modeling thing. And I think that was a big piece for me, um, was just doing the right thing, um, versus the lectures or the, you know, saying this is what you need to do, those sorts of things. I think it's the modeling That finally got there in the end for us, for sure. Because now we're seeing almost, you know, the behaviors with our son's own children and how— what a great dad he is. And it's—

Yeah.

That's really the farther fruit. Like, that's even the next step is being able to say, not only did we get through some of the challenges and relationship things that we needed to at the time, but now we're seeing the healthy, uh, behaviors and parenting that he's doing. And that's really— that's the big, really big picture for us.

Yeah, it really is. So now you're seeing the next generation, um, and that— that what I wanted to get to is now your son is a parent of 3 children, you know. So now he's on the other side of it. And I'm sure he's getting a lot of revelation about, oh, I guess my mom and dad were pretty smart after all. Because now, you know, he's, he's, he's dealing with it. And but that's, you know, when you think about farmers, generation after that, you know, they own the same— I mean, basically the same land for generation after generation. They turn it over to the next generation and then to the next, you know, some, some Families have had the farm for generations.

Right.

And that's the same idea with, with our kids. You know, someday, hopefully, your grandkids will have kids, but they will take those same principles, you know, and, and it, it just keeps going. And, and I know that's all of our hope that we create, you know, that, that kind of atmosphere. So, Richard, how— why or how was it that, that your son ended up in the military? What was that about?

Well, I think it, you know, he's a super bright kid, you know, great athlete, but at times just felt he was too cool for school, you know, just like just going through things. And he made choices, you know, that it got him to a point where he, he couldn't go to college. He didn't have the grade. He was smart enough, He could work hard enough, but he didn't have the grades to go do all those things. So it was a trade school or the military, and he decided to go in the military, which was a great option for him.

And what, what was the, just a little bit more specific on the, what you sent me, the, the award and what, what that was about?

Yeah. Well, when, when we went in, you know, because he was looking at which military branch to go, so we're going to recruiters and we're still there supporting him, you know, and trying to figure out what's best and, and talk about these decisions. And so, uh, uh, there was a test called the ASVAB to get in the military, and it scores and kind of like where you're at and kind of what occupation you can go into. And Shannon was just so flustered with him because he scored off the charts. They were like, oh, this— you could do whatever you want.

Yeah, that's frustrating.

And so Shannon was just like, are you serious? Are you kidding me?

Struggling with graduating from high school.

Yeah.

You can't—

Oh yeah, we were still like, Yeah, he went to the military just a week, 10 days after he graduated high school. Yeah, you know, so he, he was right there. But, um, he went into military intelligence, so he was doing, you know, he had, you know, classified security clearance. He had all of these different things. Um, and, and just doing the military intelligence he was doing, he was also training other people who were coming in and then, you know, going into the same occupation that he was in. But then they started cross-training different branches. So, he'd go to a different military branch and then, you know, do the training. But the commendation just really spoke to so many different things that you hope as a parent that, you know, the world is seeing and getting to benefit from. It was all in there. It was just great.

Yeah. I remember reading it and all the different, you know, if I'm reading that about my son, you know, I think you were saying like, who is this kid? You know, because you— well, like Shannon, you're like, you got— you were frustrated because it's like, dude, you're not even passing your classes. What is going on? And then you get that thing, it's like, duh, you know, like, see, all this time, this is who you really are.

Yeah.

But I think in fairness to him and in fairness to kids, sometimes, you know, school, public schools, Yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

They're not talking about what these kids are passionate about.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, there's certainly something to that. And then just, you know, finding different pathways forward and us keeping our, our mind frame and options open because we were both very much, oh, you go to college. That was the pathway. So we even had to back up and say, no, there's other pathways here that are really, really good. And even normalize some of those things. And, and, and, and praise that. You know, it wasn't kind of like, oh, you, you know, you could only get in the military, that's all you got because you could go to college. It was like, no, this is a great path, be proud of this.

Now, for some of you, let me just have a teaching moment here. For some of you that are listening, you're saying, what is this, Richard? I'm, I'm in this situation, I'm pulling my hair out, my kid, my daughter, you know, whatever. What is this farmer What do I do? So it's, it's very simple. Plowing the land, I use that as a metaphor of confrontation. I mean, in other words, the land kind of represents the heart or the soil, which is the heart. And we can't just give up, you know.

Yeah.

Which a lot of parents do. They just give up and, you know, throw their hands in the air. And I, and I understand that. But what I'm saying, you just got to keep confronting them on their behavior, you know, letting them know like, hey, I know I can't control anymore what you're doing out there, but I just want you to know, son or daughter, I'm not approving of it. I don't— I love you, but I don't like what you're doing. What that does is, um, it, it deals with their conscience. So when they're out there, they might be partying or doing whatever, but in their conscience, they hear the words I don't like what you're doing. I love you, but what you're doing, uh-uh. So that's like, and that's just something you have to do. The seeds that we plant, those are our words. And that's so important, the message, the way we say things. So I had to learn how to say negative things in a positive way. Things like, son, this is not who you are. I believe in you, but not what you're doing. You're better than this. This is not the real you, you know. And I would be saying things like that constantly, constantly reminding him Who he is, right? It's not that. Then the, the cultivation, that's just every time you can give them affection, you know, maybe it's a birthday, maybe it's Christmas, high five, fist bump, you know, anything like that.

Right.

And then the, the watering part is affirmation, just words of affirmation. Hey, good grades, or thank you for cleaning your room, or You know, that, that kind of thing. So that, that's the process. Um, but I'm interested now, you guys. Um, so for all you parents out there, that, that's, that's what we're talking about when we talk about the farming role. And it just takes time. But what I wanted to ask you is, Connor, um, now, is he seeking your— does he come to you and seek your advice? Or, or how, how is that now that he's a parent?

Yeah, him and his wife are amazing, you know, and they've got the 3 young girls and their time where they're just exasperated, you know, and they'll come over and say, oh my gosh, what would you guys do with this? You know, and so having those conversations for us sometimes to say, hey, that's normal. It's not you doing something or not doing something, you know, that, that's okay. You're just gonna have to ride this one out. Don't make a bigger deal out of it than it is. You know, so those kinds of things. But also what I really like is, you know, our family's really tight, so we're always around. Everybody has the same approach of, here's our family values. And so the alignment as a family, when the, when the kids are kind of like acting up, it doesn't matter who you're talking to, they're kind of getting the same guidance, like, hey, no, that, that's not okay, or hey, great job. Or, you know, our family, we don't do that. Or yes, our family does, does that. That's great. And that is huge, as to have voices speaking into their lives, no matter where they're going. Yeah, they're hearing the same thing.

Yeah, that's really huge. Because you have a younger son, was a little younger than, than Connor, and then you have a daughter, but now they're adults. Like you said that, you know, the uncle and the aunt can be very helpful. You guys all live close. And that's great. Shannon, what about the fact that your son has 3 daughters? Like, you know, is that— is that play into the way he's— you think he would be the way he is with boys? Or how is that dynamic with him and 3— well, 4 girls, so his wife and 3 girls?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's really fascinating to see it. I think we're all really adjusting to the girls, 3 girls. And that because—

Lots of big feelings.

Yeah, a lot of big feelings, a lot of— and sometimes Connor, God love him, he's just like, this is a lot. It's just a lot of feelings, a lot of that sort of thing. So it's been really a good learning, I think, for all of us, to be honest, on how to have big feelings and how to manage that and support it in a way that doesn't overtake everything, you know, kind of thing, and finding that balance. So it's been really great to see that. And I think for our other kids too, just, it's been, it's been fun to have everybody involved in that, um, altogether, just sort of, uh, supporting everybody across the board. Just to see the family members all step up and help, um, and want to be there for everything has been really nice.

Yeah.

And the involvement with things, um, and spending the time. So it's been, it's been good. And very interesting to see the girl, all girls.

The girl energy.

Yes, it's fun.

That's— I, you know, I have 3 girls too. Yeah. So I know, but I have 2 boys. But, you know, it is— I don't know, Richard, do you see any daddy-girl favoritism there, or is it papa-girl favoritism?

No, I mean, the girls love their daddy. I mean, just they love the time with him. You know, each it's different. You know, and that's really cool on you know one likes to roughhouse and wrestle around, and one just you know wants the hugs. And it's really cute to see this the different personalities and adjustments that's being made. You know, but but definitely you know at times when they're all You know, crying over something. You're like, "What are you crying about? You know, what what is the big deal here?" And one minute they're smiling, next minute they're crying. We're like, "What happened?" You know, it's just big girl energy. And so, yeah, he does really well with that.

Yeah, yeah, that could be. Go ahead, Shannon.

Yeah, I was just gonna say, and I think the other places we're really seeing it is is the relationship with his wife and how amazing Ari is. Like with the girls, the patience, the level—they just really balance each other out beautifully. And they, you know, met in high. school. They were young, and they're growing up together and growing up with the kids. I think that's been such a huge piece as well. Um, yeah, so we're really proud of what they're doing, having, you know, children young like we did, like, just— and then growing and getting their careers going and their family and trying to balance all those things while maintaining relationship and all of that. So we're just— it's really impressive to see, and we know it's a challenge. We know how hard it is. Um, to do those things. And they're really— that's a whole nother, you know, growth, or, you know, I don't know, field, uh, that they're, you know, that is now really starting to bloom and blossom as well. Um, and it's great to see that piece because it's hard enough raising, but then maintaining relationships and growing up together and all of those things. And they're really doing a beautiful job.

Yeah, and getting on the same page for those types of things, of having the conversations and checking in and You know, asking, hey, is this, is this right? And all of the things, you know, you'd hope you would do as a parent, you're kind of seeing that in them. We're like, oh, they're ahead of us, you know, in these ways.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And that, and that's great to see. And I see that in my kids too. You know, at their age, I was not the parent, you know, that when I first started parenting. Uh, was not. It took, it took time to, to grow. But listen, you guys are doing a great job, and, and I wanted to have you on because we know there are so many, uh, single moms, you know, divorced parents, blended families, stepparents. And especially if you— when you're a stepparent and if you have a stubborn child like this, it's not easy, man. It's hard, um, when you're dealing with You know, somebody who's not your biological biological daughter or son, even an extra a little extra challenge there. But for those of you that are out there, the the main thing I wanted you to get today was the hope. You know, there is a process, but there is hope, and it's the persistence, the patience, and if you pray, that's what it takes. It's not easy, as Richard and Shannon have said, to to wait for the harvest. But the thing about it is. We have a law. It's called the law of the harvest, which means whatever you plant, that's what's going to grow. Of course, there has to be the cultivation of that, which is the patience and you know doing things in the right way and apologizing and things like that. But the law of the harvest is on your side. As long as you continue to plant those seeds, cultivate those seeds, the day will come when you're going to reap the fruit of it. I can speak to that personally. It's been a huge challenge for us and with with one of our sons, but he the blossom is there. You know, we're waiting for the actual fruit, but the leaves and the blossoms are are all there, and so we know that we just have to keep you know doing what we're doing. So I want to encourage you in that. Those of you that are listening, Richard and Shannon, I really respect you guys. Love you guys. We've been friends a long time, so. You know, it's been wonderful for you guys to see our kids and us see your kids. Now you're seeing my grandkids and great-grandkids, and we just keep this, you know, this going. But I want to thank you for your time. And for those of you that are listening, you know, sometimes when we listen to podcasts, we don't always subscribe, but it would be a huge favor to me if you would subscribe and share this episode if you know somebody, a friend or family that. really could, could hear this message of hope that it does work. These principles do work.

Absolutely.

And as well, don't forget that I have free resources on my website, richardrramos.com. You can go there, download those resources. My books are there, and you can get a free chapter if you want to, like, test drive my books, whether or not you want to buy it. You can download a free chapter, check it out. And all of those resources are there for one reason, and that is we want to help turn your heart to your children because that turns the heart of them to you. And when you have that connection, that reconciliation, that wins the loyalty of your children, and that really is what we want to see happen. So again, this is Richard Ramos. Thank you for listening, and remember, Mom and Dad, Parents on a Mission is not for bad parents. It's for good parents like you that want to get better. See you next time.