When Christian Moms Feel Stuck in Survival Mode with Bethany Rose

Hey everybody, it's Richard Ramos and welcome back to the Parent Whisperer podcast where we are bringing every week stories, principles, guests. And today I have a guest who I will be introducing to you. But I find that all, even though we teach all the principles, those of you who are familiar with Parents on a Mission, We teach these principles. We're trying to give you information and guidance and encouragement. But a lot of times the best way to really get across the things that we're teaching is to hear stories or to hear some other principles of other practitioners like my guest, what they're teaching and how they're going about reaching parents, helping parents, encouraging moms and dads, single moms, blended families, divorcees, all of it. That's our goal. And also, I want to thank those of you who are subscribing. I really appreciate it. And what really helps grow our podcast is when you leave a review. Loves people leaving reviews. And also, if you subscribe, because I know a lot of times people listen but they don't subscribe, and I understand that, but I just would ask you as a favor, it would be very helpful if you're willing to subscribe. So review, subscribe, and if you share the podcast with your friends, friends or family who when you hear a specific topic or whatever you feel like wow that would really help someone share that with them and then hopefully they'll become a subscriber and we just grow. Why do I want to grow the channel? Because we want to help more people. Okay, that's why. Want to help more people. That that's the goal and. If you would do that for me, I really appreciate it. So today I want to introduce you to somebody who's new to me, but again, she's reaching parents specific to mothers. Her name is Bethany Rose. She's helping Christian moms move from survival mode to peace through scripture and nervous system regulation, which is what I want to. Her to delve more deeply, like, what is that nervous system regulation? Just a short bio: Bethany Rose is the host of the Spiritual Growth for Christian Moms podcast and a Christian nervous system coach who helps overwhelmed moms move out of the survival mode by pairing biblical truth with practical regulation tools. She helps women find more peace, patience, emotional resilience, and freedom in their walk with Christ. Bethany Rose, thank you for being a part of the program. Welcome.

Thank you. I'm so— I'm very happy to be here.

It's great to have you. And I would like you, just for people who don't know you and I'm getting to know you, just introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about you, and then we'll get into the work that you're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. I have 3 little little kids. They're 9, almost 8, and 3. And when the third one was born is when my shift of my income versus childcare shifted. So I started staying home full-time, which we were talking about this before we recorded, was a battle. It was a huge learning curve. It is still a learning curve. I've been the working mom and now I'm the stay-at-home mom. And honestly, I think working mom was easier. Yeah.

You're still working now. You're working harder now.

Yes. There's no clocking out now. It's just staying home is a much more emotional toll than working was more of a physical toll, which seemed, feels easier for me to get through. So that's been an adventure. And my husband, he's a great supporter. He's actually my second husband and we've only been married for A little over three years, so we didn't quite get our newlywed phase because we're just raising kids. But I always joke with them.

There's no newlywed when you bring kids into it. It's instant family, and I know what that's like.

It's instant family. It's instant hard work. It's instant trials. And I always joke with them that in eighteen years we're going to be really good at dating each other.

That's you know what? That's a marriage class right there. But we're going to talk about parenting.

That that is so true. We a lot.

Of the parents that we work with and those that are listening, you know, they've been through similar circumstances. And so we all know when we personally, when we hit some valleys or bumps, whatever we want to call them, it affects our children. And it is true, going, leaving your house every day and going to a separate location, 9 to 5, whatever it is, and then coming home is different than being home all day and working. That's what I do. That's what my wife does. But it is adjustment. It's not— some people struggle with that because the lines are always blurry.

Yes, yes. And I've talked about before biblical priorities and biblical order of the house, and I know this isn't the focus of what we're talking about today. I'm bunny trailing here, but it goes God, spouse, kids, and then ministry and work. And it's hard when you're home all the time to keep those in that order. For me, it is anyways. It's really hard for me to always put my husband above my kids because that's my identity right now. It's like God is my identity, but that's my job. I'm mom all the time, 24/7. It's hard to keep him number 3 on the list. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I understand that. And but that is the correct, in my opinion as well, that is the correct order that we should have for in our life. And I think that as we, as we're maintaining that and looking to that, ultimately our spouse and our children do benefit. Of course, it sometimes seems like the kids are the priority over our spouse, or maybe sometimes the other way around. Or work, it could be work. If like, yeah, if you're traveling a lot and you're not home, But ultimately, because you have God at the top of there, that keeps us, reminds us what is really important. So I think people out there listening, that, that's a good framework that you gave there. Having God, spouse, children, and then work or ministry, because a lot of people put the kids second to God versus spouse.

Mm-hmm.

But again, we're not here to talk about marriage.

Yes, that's a marriage class. Maybe next time.

Yeah. But so how did you— again, spiritual growth for Christian moms and a Christian nervous system coach. Number one, how did you come up with that or get into that? And then number two, what is it? What do you do exactly?

So how I got into it, I'm gonna share. Well, I'll share in just a second exactly my experience and what I went through. But about 2 years ago now, God told me in a dream, and this was like such a detailed real life dream. It was down on a paper outlined subjects to talk about everything. He was like, start a podcast. And share me with moms. So I couldn't stop thinking about it. And usually that's kind of how God talks to me, is like a persistent thought that is unusual for me and out of character for me. So I know it's his, and then it doesn't go away. So it didn't go away, and then I ended up jumping into the podcast world. I'm still not sure what I'm doing, so. I'm still learning that too. Yeah. But as far as the topic, I knew years ago when I was going through probably the hardest part I've ever— of my life I've had to go through so far. I knew in the midst of it that God was gonna use it somehow. And it's like, now it's go time and now he's actually using it. So, I told you my husband's my second husband. My first husband, we were together a little over 10 years, married for 5 to 6 years, and during that time I wasn't living my best Christian life, if you will. I believed in God, but I can't say I necessarily had a relationship with him. We drank a lot and we fought a lot, and every time we drank Fighting got worse. There was a lot of instances that happened in our marriage, like infidelity things that always came up when we were drinking. Mm-hmm. And if you've been there, you've been there. And you know that alcohol just really like kindles, it's kindling to that fire.

That's right.

So it wasn't the best marriage, but then I never tried to get a divorce because I'm married and We're gonna work through this.

Okay.

Then one day I had that very persistent thought that I told you how God talks to me, and he said, divorce your husband. That's a weird thought for God to say, right? But it didn't go away and it just kept coming back and coming back. And eventually I found out that we weren't really married because that whole 10+ years he was married to someone else.

Oh, wow.

So our wedding was void. Our marriage was void. Our, none of it was actually real, like legally. And so once I found that out, it was almost like a release and clarity to what God was telling me. And all I had to do was leave. And if you've ever left a spouse, that's also not easy.

No, it's not.

It was a tough. No. And it was a toxic relationship. I truly believe God wanted me out of that situation, but it doesn't mean it was easy. And it was not a clean rip, if you will. It was like, I'm going to rip a little here. Nope. I want to tape it back together and then rip it and then tape it. And it was probably a year-long process of finally, okay, I'm leaving, but I didn't have a job at the time. I didn't have a place to live. And I lived about 20 minutes away from my parents, so I wanted to go up that direction where they were, the hometown I was from. And God ordained in such a way me to get a job up there. In the interview, I was a dental assistant at the time, so it was a dental office. And the interview with this dentist and his wife, who's the office manager, lasted over 3 hours.

Really? Oh, your interview turned into a counseling session.

It really did. I even talked to them about it. I had left. I think he was living with his parents at the time, and I was trying to move up north. So I was— I had left, but I hadn't technically left. I talked to him about that. Who talks about that in an interview?

Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah.

And I don't doubt God wanted me under there. And then they became such good role models for me and such just They took me under their wing and I could almost cry talking about how much good came from that job.

Yeah.

And within a week of starting there, I, this is just an example of God's provision here. Okay. So I told my dad, I've always loved art and I've always had a side gig for art stuff, whether selling paintings, selling something, or teaching painting classes. And I told my dad, I had 2 kids at this point. They're both 2. They're both under 2. I told my dad, I was like, I want a house next to you guys in the country with extra room for my arts and crafts and 3 bedrooms. And he laughed at me because a single mom's income, or one, even just one person's income, is hard to find. Anything I could afford was an apartment in probably not the greatest part of town, to be honest. So about the first or second week I started working at this dental office, they drove past a house in the country and they're like, hey, we saw this house for rent. I went and looked on lunch break and it was in my price range. I called my dad and I'm like, hey, I need a cosigner. Can you come look at this? I kid you not, it was 0.8 miles from their house in the country. You know what I'm gonna say? 3 bedrooms. Yep. A full basement for my arts and crafts.

That's great. Yep. It sounds like God to me.

Yes. And he continued doing that this entire period of my life. So anyways, during all of this, I was having panic attacks that would send me to the emergency room. I was having high anxiety that I didn't understand at the time what these things were. I didn't understand it was a panic attack until 2 ER doctors, my medic, my regular doctor, a neurologist, all told me, you're healthy. This is a panic attack. And then finally I was like, maybe they're right. I got put on anxiety meds, antidepressants. I had anxiety so bad. I can just remember the feeling of it just In my bones, in my whole body. Sometimes I couldn't even drive myself places because the anxiety was so bad. And that was, like I said, all new to me. So I had to not only work through it, but identify what it was. I went to therapy, a couple different people, a couple different ways. I cried a lot. I felt very alone. I felt very depressed. I felt like rock bottom. I felt like my world was just— Went from like a family of 5 to crashed. And I'm single mom with 2, like, with no money, no nothing. I'm working 3 jobs. My parents are my other half. I'm in my 30s. And my parents are not only my best friends, but they're my other half of parenting.

Yeah. Now, who prescribed the medication to you?

It was my family doctor.

The doctor. How do you— and how do you feel about that now? Or are you— maybe you're going to talk about that. How do you feel about that, about the medication?

I never wanted to take it. I was very anti-medicine. And through all of these years, I've been on and off of it several times. I get off of it because I don't want it, and then Things start to go really bad and then I get back on it before I wanna do something to myself and it gets scary. And now how I feel about it is it's not a shameful thing. If you really need it and it's really gonna help you, then take it. I don't exactly know why I was so anti-medicine. I just wanted to be able to do it myself.

Yeah.

Or as I started to grow my relationship with God, I almost felt like it makes me a bad Christian if I'm not leaning on God and I'm leaning on antidepressants. And I just had all these mixed feelings along the way, but I would say I was wrong on all of those. Yeah.

And so it helped you. That's what I'm asking. It helped you.

Yeah.

And sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. And some people stay on it and there's no guilt trip about it or no shame. And there's other people that don't, they get off it and they don't, they just don't need it anymore. But the bottom line is, if you need it, it's there to help you. And I think that's a message for everybody who's listening out there who may be feeling the same way that you were feeling. They're embarrassed or feeling guilty, or I don't want anybody to know. Or there's no shame in in in that, and and sometimes we need that to help us. But the reason I asked you how you felt about it is because sometimes these psychiatrists or doctors sometimes that's the first thing they want to do is put people on medication, and sometimes that's not always the best. route for everybody, but in your case, it worked out.

Yes, and I did definitely drag my feet, and I'd start it and stop it until I actually stayed on it and did the protocol, did what you were supposed to do. And I do think it helped. I think it just helped me not be so up and downy. I still am. I'm emotional, and I'm good with it. I'm good being emotional. I'm an empath. I have embraced it, but My high highs are always high. My low lows are always low, but I guess it helped it not be quite so low.

And what's cool about— well, yeah, of course it does. And, but what's great about this is yet you, here you are helping other people. And I think that is so great is that we don't have to be perfect. We don't have to have it all together. I certainly— I don't like being called a parent expert. Other people call me that. I don't look at myself as a parent expert because I am not perfect. I, I still make mistakes. This many years as a grandparent, as a great-grandparent, all our children are adults, and I still make mistakes. Sometimes we have our— we still have arguments. We still get upset with each other, or things get done or said that you don't Agree with or whatever, but that doesn't mean that disqualifies me from trying to help other people. And again, I'm and I'm sure you're the same. I'm not asking people to do anything that I don't do, and I am first to admit that I don't have it all together. That's not what that's not why I teach what I teach or write the books I've written. I'm sharing from my experience, and I'm not perfect, but I'm better than who I used to be. I know that. And I'm constantly growing, and I'm constantly getting better. But we all fail here and there. But I just love the fact that even though you're still struggling here and there, and you said you have highs and you have lows, you're still helping people, and that's great.

Yeah, and I think Imposter syndrome where you feel like, who am I? Why should I? I do get that. That does creep in, but I just, I recognize it as Satan and I'm like, God called me to do this. God told me to do this. And I am not trying to help the women who are where I'm at. I'm trying to help the women that are where I was 6 years ago.

Yeah.

So I can't, I can't help people ahead of me or on the same page as me, but I can help the women that are a few chapters behind me.

Yeah, that's— it's true that we cannot take people to a level that we're not at, and that's why we have to live what we teach, because we know I'm not going to be asking people to do something that I don't do. And I know that I can't take people to a higher level than where I'm at, but I'm not at the same level as I was 5 years ago or 10 years ago, or hopefully even last year. But I want Bethany Rose to talk about This, let me read it again. The nervous system regulation. What is that and how are you addressing that?

So it came from all of my experience and I am not a therapist, so it is not therapy. And if I feel like that is something that you need, I would just advise you to it instead of me. But I have learned a lot about the nervous system along the way. Because all of that anxiety, all that panic stems back to the nervous system.

That's right.

And yeah, there's experiences and strongholds and all that kind of stuff that you can work out in therapy, but there are ways to calm your nervous system. There are ways to recognize that your nervous system is out of whack. And when it's dysregulated, that's often what people refer to as fight or flight mode, which we recognize what that is. We recognize that's when We're in danger. So if we saw a bear, we would instantly go into fight or flight mode because we would need to survive. And so that's the only thing your body's thinking about. It's not thinking about rest and digest, which is the opposite mode, because we don't care if you're digesting your food. We don't care if you're getting a good night's sleep. We care about getting away from this bear. And so, and when you live that way, which I did. For a long time. And as the moms with young kids, or as parents in general, I think the stress and pressures of parenting can often kick you into that mode. So you can still live in that mode even when your world's not crashing around. But that mode is supposed to last just a little bit to protect us, and then we come back out of it. And when we don't come back out of it and our body just stays in it. It actually does so much to our body to stay in that long-term. It messes with your immune system. It messes with your brain chemistry, your body itself, your physical body, the joints, and your exhaustion and your sleep. It really affects everything to just stay in that. So that's it being dysregulated. And what I like to help people with and what I like to learn even more about is how to regulate it. How do we get out of that survival mode and back into what we call rest and digest mode, which is just normal mode? And there are different ways. The first step would be recognizing it. Just like I told you in my story, I was having all that panic and anxiety, but I didn't realize that's what it was for a long time. So the first step is recognizing it and then Coming out of it, there's different physical tactics I teach. One of them, for example, super easy, is just tapping like here on your clavicle area.

Yeah.

And that can bring—

They also tap your, your hand here.

Yep. And that can bring you out. And some of the things seem silly. It seems silly, but just do it, try it, and I bet it will work. And it, so it's, there's some physical techs. Tactics like that. There are a bunch of 'em, but then I also mix it with Jesus because he is the creator and giver of our peace. True peace comes from him and him alone. So he did not give us a spirit of anxiety. He did not give us a spirit of panic, but he gives peace.

Or a spirit of fear.

Yes. Yes. And We have the scientific neuroscience that, yeah, tapping our clavicle will calm us down. But then also, let's breathe some scripture into this. Let's read about what Jesus says about how I'm feeling right now and bringing those 2 things together right there where they overlap.

Yeah, there's a synthesizing of those things. Do you also— you probably talk about Deep breathing and meditation, or—

Yes. Breathing. That's a big one. I think helps a lot. I still do that with myself quite a bit. And I, I, it's probably my favorite. I think it's the most helpful. You wanna try it?

Sure.

Okay. So there's belly breathing, there's box breathing, there's different styles, but if we do belly breathing, so when we're just breathing regular, our chest kind of goes up and down. But when we're belly breathing, our diaphragm expands and gives us room. And for women, it also helps your pelvic floor realign after babies and also helps your nervous system. Everything's all connected back to your nervous system.

That's correct. Yes.

So if you take a deep breath but expand your belly out, so I often put my hand on my stomach and my chest. And I can feel my stomach getting bigger and take a deep breath in, expand your belly, hold it for a second, 3 seconds, and then exhale hard. And when you exhale, concave your stomach. So you're like blowing up your stomach with an inhale and then you concave your stomach with an exhale.

Okay.

And if you do that, I, the first few times I did it, it actually made me lightheaded and I think that's normal. Oh yeah, but that often will calm me down quite a bit if I just do that. Even it helps me fall asleep if I do it in bed when I— before I go to sleep.

Okay, deep breathing, inspirational reading or scripture, and tapping. Talk a little bit more about tapping. Some— for some people, that it might be a new concept. I'm familiar with it, but maybe just talk a little bit more about that.

It just grounds your body. It's almost like a distraction mechanism, and you could do it with— there's also some with the 5 senses, 5 senses. So you can look around and say something, say something you smell, see something you feel, and that's the same sense here as you're feeling, and it's like drawing your brain to that area.

And what are some of the different places you tap on your body? I know the clavicle's one, and then the hand. I've seen that, the hand and this. I think there was another, maybe the back of the neck or the foot or the head. I forget, but there seemed like there was another. I guess people could use Whatever works for them.

Yes, I think finger— fingers have a lot of nerves in them, and I think that helps too. I personally do my fingers a lot.

Okay.

All right. And it might be the same with feet, but that also might be kind of weird. Give yourself a foot rub in the middle of the day.

So for those of you hearing, listening out there, so these, if you, these are methods you could try if you're I think, Bethany Rose, you're talking about anxiety. When people are feeling anxious, maybe fearful or nervous, I guess anxious and nervous are the same thing. So you might try these things. Deep breathing is one, tapping is another. And then, or if you can bring yourself to a place where you can focus on some either meditation or scriptural or inspirational Reading to get your mind thinking in a better way, because controlling the thoughts of our mind is so important. And what I've learned too from—I don't know if you've heard of Dr. Joe Dispenza. Have you ever heard of him? No. So he talks about—he has a—he has three really great books. One of them is called Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. And so he talks about how to go about that. But one of the things he talks about is that we have to— our body is the language of feeling, our mind is the language of thought. And sometimes we can allow our feelings to control our thoughts. But that's— so in other words, he says that your body becomes the mind, and now you're just being controlled by your feelings, which you and I know that's not What we want, but our thoughts also sometimes we can have a negative mindset or negative thoughts that are going around around, and we we have to take control of that. What I teach how to take control of your mind. Now, those of you listening, this is an easy. I'm I'm not a psychiatrist, and this is a very simple method, but it seems to work, and I do it all the time. So I teach, first you got to catch the thought, then you got to change the thought, then you have to replace the thought with a positive affirmation. So catch, change, replace. And that takes practice. But all of what I'm saying, all of you that are listening out there, of what Bethany Rose is teaching, what I'm saying is helping you to regulate yourself, to bring yourself back to balance, back to center. So that you can be the best version of yourself for your children.

Yes. Yeah. And that is a great method to teach catching. I often call 'em Satan's lies and replacing it with God's truth, but it's the same. Yeah. Same concept. And that's when I'm working with people, what I would do next. So we've recognized it. We learned how to regulate your nervous system. Now let's learn how to incorporate New patterns in your life. Yes. Let's work on this. Like what you just said, let's practice doing it until it's not so hard for us to do anymore.

Yeah. All these things take practice and, you know, repetition so that it becomes a habit. Now, do you have any specific story or somebody, not naming anybody, but just somebody that you worked with and they really were really helped? Any stories like that?

The first, just the first thing that comes to my mind is the very first person I helped. It's just amazing how God works. There's a lot of times when you're trying to help someone that you don't feel adequate. You don't feel like you can. And God brought her to me and she had almost gone through pretty weirdly close to the same thing I had gone through. Like mine's, I'm going to say almost a touch dramatic, like married to someone else and all of this, but it, some of the details were so spot on similar and I felt comfortable just helping her. God, this is what you want me to do. You want me to help women. And I was able to give her books to read and Teach her things that I didn't know at the time going through that I wish I knew. And she— it's a journey, so it takes some time. But to go through leaving someone and to go through that heartache, you can either let it take you down or you can walk through it with God and just fully— like, the quicker you Give up and lean completely on God, the quicker he can pick you up. But if like you're putting your weight down and not letting him pick you up cuz you're trying to do it all yourself, then it's gonna take longer. And she is going through this whole situation with just such grace and leaning on God. And I'm gonna say my words, not hers, probably closer to God than she's ever been. So yeah, that's neat to see.

Yeah. Oh yeah. No, that's great. Now, do you have a? I know you have a podcast. I think if people want to listen to you, it's podcast at BethanyRose.net. Is that correct?

Flip-flopped. It's BethanyRose.net backslash podcast.

Okay, we'll put those in the show notes. I think I and that I think you sent the coaching.

Everything's on that too. The coaching tab, the tab to get on my email list. I have an email I send out on Thursdays. It's kind of. Okay. Yes. My brain dump. Yeah. Okay.

So we'll put that in the show notes. And, and, but do you have a website? Does this say website or is it, oh, this is Facebook community.

I see. Yeah. That, that is the only website right now is just kathrynierose.net/podcast. And then I do have a Facebook group.

Okay. Okay. That'll be, like I said, in the show notes for everybody, anybody that wants to listen. To Bethany Rose. You can find those in the show notes when we— this podcast comes out, which will probably be this Thursday. The Parent Whisperer podcast comes out every Thursday. You can listen on Apple or Spotify. Now, is there anything else that I— you want me to ask or anything else you wanna share as we close out this session?

I didn't think so, but this is just Popped in my head, so I'm gonna say it in case it's a God thing.

Okay.

That in Ephesians, I was studying Ephesians years ago when I was going through the hardest time, and it talks about maturity and growing in Christ and what that looks like. And I believe that there is a time for healing. And there's the time when you need to just abide in God. And that might be a time now, and it might also be a time 10 years from now you need to do it again. I believe there are just times when God is calling us to just rest, come to him and rest. But there are other times, like Ephesians talks about, where you get in the game and you play. You get up off the bench and you go run the play and you get in and do it. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And for me, that's what God recently has done. It's like, okay, your rest time's over. Thank you for finally doing it. Now go. And, and there might be something else that happens in my life, or I might be called to another season of rest sometime soon. But right now I am called for a season of go out there and do it.

Yeah.

And just anyone that's listening. Whatever season you're being called to, do it. If you're listening to this episode and you're relating to my part of the story that was like overwhelmed and anxious and panic and I needed to rest, then take your season of rest.

Yeah.

Take it. Let God do his work in you. But if you are listening to this and you're like relating to the part of my story where I had a dream about a podcast and I went and did it even though I didn't know what I was doing. Then go, go get in your season of action and go do whatever God's calling you to do. He doesn't always give you the whole path, but he gives you the next step and just take that next step, whatever it is.

That's great advice. 'Cause I know that a lot of you out there, you're probably like I was, scared, nervous. Who's going to listen to me? Who are you to write a book? Who are you to have a podcast? All of those thoughts, those are normal, but Again, if you feel the calling, it might be time to answer it. Or as Bethany Rose said, if it's time to rest, then rest, but it might be time to go. So, so for everybody listening, again, thank you for the reviews. If you have questions, please send your questions, and I really appreciate your subscribing. Also, I want to give you a heads up. My website normally— so my website, richardrrommel.com. Was featuring me more as mostly about parenting, Parent— Parents on a Mission. So my books are there, I had a lot of free resources there for you, also an online course. But I just want to give you a heads up, I'm remaking my website so that I'm not pigeonholing myself only as speaking on parenting, because I've developed— I'm not going to get into the whole thing, but I've developed a lot of leaders, and I've developed organizations and nonprofits. I founded them, developed them. So I want to start speaking to that community, and all of it comes together because to me parenting is the root. Because parents, you are the first leaders of your children. And our job is to create a culture and an environment where those kids become the best version of themselves. But that's the same it should be at work. As the leader, we should be creating a culture and an environment where the people that come, our staff, they're able to flourish and they're able to find their voice. And they feel that they are being used the way to their gifts and talents. That goes to community leadership. So Those are my experiences. So if you go to my website, richardrromos.com, you're going to notice that my website is changing. It's different now, but I'm still the Parent Whisperer. As I like— I didn't give myself that name, okay? I think I've said this before. Somebody out— a couple of other people call me that, so that's why this podcast is called that. But I just want you to know that I'm trying to provide as many resources I can for you. This podcast is one of those resources. Bethany Rose has her podcast. You can go listen to that for more about what she's teaching. So I think that that covers everything I wanted to say. Bethany Rose, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your story, and thank you for sharing the tips that you gave all the moms and dads that are out there. You've been listening to the Parent Whisperer podcast. I'm Richard Ramos, and as I always tell you, mom and dad, Parents on a Mission is not for bad parents. It's for good parents who want to get better. Thanks for listening. See you next time.