Stressed Out Dogs

Hi, this is Rita Hogan, and welcome to the Dogs Are Individuals podcast. I'm a clinical canine herbalist, and I've been practicing for almost 20 years. This podcast is all about seeing our dogs as individuals through an herbal lens. So let's get to it and dive right in. Welcome to the third episode of the Dogs Are Individuals podcast. I am Rita Hogan. I'm your host. So before we begin, I just want to remind you, you can find me on Instagram at Canine Herbalist, on Facebook, under Facebook slash Canine Herbalist. I also have a private Facebook group called Dogs are Individuals. My platform for courses is canineherbalism.com and if you want to reach out for a consult or purchase something from my lovely little store, you can Visit that@canineherbalist.com I also have a really great feature called Ask the Herbalist. You can ask me any type of question on my website and you just click on Ask the Herbalist. So one thing I do want to remind people of is you can write into the podcast, go to k9herbalist.com and click questions for the podcast. I look forward to your questions. I've got one this week to answer. Looking forward to that. We're going to talk about stress today, and we're also going to start a series of how to use herbs effectively. Gonna go over a few aspects there and then revisit that in upcoming episodes. Another thing I want to remind you is I have a book coming out next year, and I would really love it if you could sign up as interested in my book. The notes will be. Well, it'll be in the notes for the podcast. It's basically just put in your email. There's no marketing. There's. There's no commitment. It's just letting my publishers know, hey, we want this information. We love this information. We can't wait for Rita's book. So my book will be coming out probably late next year because traditional publishing takes a while. And I'm so looking forward to putting this information together for you guys. So let's get started on the podcast. Today, we're gonna talk about stress. So we share a vibration with our animals. You know, we're in space with them, we're in the house with them, where, you know, one is laying at my feet right now. We're all kind of communicating with each other unknowingly in many, many unspoken ways. And stress, our stress affects our dog stress, and our dogs have their own set of stresses for sure. And if you've rescued a dog, you know, you might Be getting a dog that has a history of trauma. Even dogs that aren't rescued, that are purchased from breeders can have a history of trauma. And we want to look at our stress, also our stress in relation to our dogs, and how we can help alleviate some of that stress for ourselves and for our animals. So your dogs and ourselves have what is called a sympathetic nervous system and a parasympathetic nervous system. And the sympathetic nervous system kind of governs fight or flight, okay? And the parasympathetic, this parasympathetic nervous system, it governs rest and relaxation and the ability to detoxify. In fact, when the body doesn't have access to the parasympathetic nervous system, the liver actually can't detoxify as good as it would if it did have access, if that makes sense. So our sympathetic nervous system really governs what's called fight or flight. Depending on the situation, fight or flight episodes can last for minutes, but they can also last for hours. Hours. And dogs. Well, and people that have chronic episodes of fight or flight, that's multiple times a day or, you know, also multiple times per week, they can be in a highly stressed state. And, you know, some dogs and people, their days are filled with anxiety, lots of reactivity and restlessness. So chronic stress can cause a perpetual state of, like, being on and on all the time, you know, ready to go. And that is what is called sympathetic dominance. So the oncoming nervous system controls the body's, like, inner state of being. And it's divided into two sections, again, the parasympathetic and the sympathetic. So the parasympathetic really does give your dog access to rest. It helps them calm down. It helps them digest their food. And the sympathetic nervous system is specifically set out to protect your dog in that fight or flight that. Get away from me or I'm going to chase you, okay? Or I'm going to defend my house or my owner. So it kind of plays like this dance, right? And when the sympathetic nervous system is activated, and especially activated too long, or, you know that multiple times a day, too often, your dog can suffer, right? It suffers from being on all the time. And the interesting point is the liver cannot detoxify thoroughly if it doesn't have access to the parasympathetic nervous system, that rest and relaxation and digestion response, and then it just becomes like this kind of cycle where the body is cycling through these episodes of fight or flight. And then the parasympathetic response in your dog starts to decline. And that Creates tension and definitely tension throughout the body. And this is important because when dogs get stuck in that sympathetic state, their bodies get flooded with glucose. This is great if they're actually being chased or they have to defend themselves. Right. But it's not so great if they're just reacting to the doorbell or to any little noise that they perceive as a threat, fight, or flight. Stimulates the brain and the hypothalamus, and. And together they kind of. Well, not kind of, but they affect the endocrine system and that. And not only endocrine system, but also the endocrine and the skeletal system. And this releases a whole bunch of hormones, which include, like, adrenaline, noradrenaline, ostocalcin, which, you know, we don't need to get into that, but it's for the skeletal system. And cortisol, which is a very important hormone. And the flooding of hormones increases your dog's respiratory rate, it increases their blood pressure, their heart rate, the blood flow. And blood flow's really important here because basically it's turning everything off. And it's like, go to the periphery, Go to the periphery. You know, abandon the organs and get to the periphery. We need all hands on deck so, you know, your dog can run away or defend itself. Right. So what does this do? It causes a decline or a decrease in digestive functioning and circulation. And it's putting all of the efforts into the brain and the muscles and the musculoskeletal system. So when your dog is perceiving this threat, I mean, you have to, like, digestion kind of goes on the back burner. Okay. And elimination is reduced. And everything is about assimilation of nutrients, getting nutrition into the cells of your dog's body, and elimination. Chronic issues with or decrease in assimilation and elimination causes disease. So we really want to work with our dogs who get. Get stuck in this sympathetic excess. And that has a lot to do with stress. So stress hormones can increase pathogenic bacteria. All right, I'm going to. I'm going to repeat that. Stress hormones can increase pathogenic bacteria, and we don't want that. Okay. Because pathogenic bacteria lower your. It lowers your dog's healthy microbial populations by interfering with how microbes adhere to the gut's mucosal lining. That is an important factor to know. So it's really. How does stress affect your dog's body? And this is one of those dogs who have a high level of fight or flight, usually suffer from acute or chronic GI issues. I think an example of this is, like, when dogs have that fight or Flight response when they get all worked up and then they have the poops, right? That kind of explosive nervous diarrhea. Or they can become chronically constipated. This also can lead to food sensitivities and candida overgrowth. Some other kind of complications to deal with to do with sympathetic excess. Dogs that are always on really having a hard time shutting it off and relaxing is, you know, you get adrenal fatigue, you can get anxiety and agitation. Some dogs are really hard to train. You sometimes see early aging, kidney imbalances, excessive drooling, like really high intensity behaviors, lots of lip licking and smacking when dogs aren't nauseated, right? Your dog's not nauseated, but they're still licking and smacking. And a lot of times this can be related to a sympathetic excess. So being in that fight or flight too much. Also, some dogs have ptsd. They have really high levels of trauma and they can get triggered by things causing that sympathetic excess. So you see that raised hair along the backbone and that you can get rapid transit of food through the colon. And that's no fun for anybody, right. Also there's that stoic behavior where some dogs are so stoic you just don't even know what's going on. And then the opposite of that is a dog who's trembling all the time. That definitely can be sympathetic behavior. So what do you do? Like, you know, like my, you know, that sounds like my dog. You know, my dog's so reactive and he's always on and he's always guarding something or reacting to something. He's crazy on the leash. You know, I don't know what to do. And so what do we do? What do you. What can be done for sympathetic excess? And I look to herbs, so herbal support is really effective for dogs that are stuck in that on position that have too much stress. And you know, you can look at yourself for, with these herbs too. Because humans are constantly in a state of stress these days. You know, we've just went through the last two and a half years of COVID 19 and all of the stress and the 24 hour news cycle and the worry and the fear and the decline of, you know, health and wellness. Lots of anxiety. Also, you know, humans are subjected now to phone responses being kind of like the idea that you are actually available 24, 7, which is not true. We are not cut out for that. We're not equipped for that. We have not evolved for, for that. And these bells and whistles on the phone, they create a fight or flight Just think, I mean, this is not for everyone for sure, but I've definitely observed people, if a text sound goes off, they like, say they're eating dinner and a text song goes off, right? Song or, or sound or, or however they get triggered, they literally feel like they have to get up from the dinner table or get up from doing. Being present to something else and go answer that text like it's life threatening. And all those little sounds and those bells and whistles can definitely spiral into sympathetic excess. Being on the computer, being on Facebook, being on Instagram all the time wondering what people are doing nonstop, not being present in your own life. So these things can cause a high level of stress and anxiety. So we kind of have to look inward at how we're reacting to our environment as well, because our dog's gonna. The dogs basically are watching. Our pets are watching us. They're feeling our feelings, they're sharing our vibration. So looking to herbs, the first one, it's very popular herb, not for everyone, but it's called Ashwagandha. Ashwagandha is an adaptogenic herb. Its Latin name is withania samaferia. And just so you know, and for all upcoming episodes of the podcast, I am not the best at Latin pronunciation, so you'll just have to bear with me or find it humorous like I do. So ashwagandha is very nourishing. It's very strengthening to the overstimulated nervous system. It helps calm things down, it eases tension, and it definitely calms that sympathetic nervous system response down. It brings down sympathetic dominance. So it can calm anxiety and help support digestion. It helps support hypothyroid conditions and definitely helps you and your dog have more access to the parasympathetic function inside the body. With ashwagandha, you can do a dried herbal dosage, adding it to your dog's food. But before we go and add it to the food, we want to think about, is ashwagandha good for your dog? So ashwagandha is warming. So if your dog has like a warming, energetic, hard time regulating their body temperature, if they have hyperthyroid, you don't want to give ashwagandha. Okay, so it's more for dogs that are more cool, dogs that like to be covered up, dogs that like to be lay on their dog beds, that love to lay in the sun, dogs that really like to soak up the heat, they are definitely more towards the use of ashwagandha. For dosages, you can use a tincture, which is one drop for extra small dogs. And an extra small dog to me is basically under like seven pounds. And that varies. There's lots of gray area in herbalism, so. And some people get very upset about the fact that it's not really so black and white. But I don't recommend toxic herbs on my talks and my podcasts and stuff like that because it needs a lot more care. So these are very non toxic herbs. And so one drop for extra small dogs, three drops for small dogs. That's like 10 pounds, 8 to 10 pounds. Eight like small dog, not 8 to 10. I'm sorry. But let's see, 8 to 20 pounds, 25 pounds. Like a pug, you know, is for me, a small dog. And then there's a medium dog, like a spaniel or a cocker spaniel or something a little bit bigger, but not as big. It's like a golden retriever. So five drops for medium dogs, seven drops for large dogs, nine drops for extra large dogs. And that's given twice a day before food. You can put it in the mouth. I like to dilute it with a little bit of water. Just pop it in the mouth or drip it on a treat. It's preferable in the mouth before eating. It can be like as soon as five minutes before eating. If you can't get it in the mouth, then drip it on a treat. It'll just take a little longer to work. And then you can also give it dried in the food. 150 milligrams for extra small dogs, 250 to 300 milligrams for small dogs, 300 to 500 milligrams for medium dogs, 500 to 800 milligrams for large dogs, and then 800 to 1200 milligrams for extra large dogs. And that's given with food. Okay, so the next herb that I like is lemon balm. And with lemon balm, again, you want to be careful that your dog doesn't have hypothyroid. You don't want to give lemon balm for a longer period of time for dogs that have hyperthy or hypothyroid. Okay? So because it decreases thyroid function. But if your dog has normal thyroid function and you want to give lemon balm, you're going to give it as a tea and as an infusion. So basically you take dried lemon balm, use about 1 tablespoon to about 4 ounces of hot water, you're going to steep it for about 15 to 25 minutes, basically, and you're Going to let it cool and then you're going to put it on your dog's food. So it's a half a teaspoon for extra small dogs, 1 teaspoon for small dogs, 2. 2 teaspoons for medium dogs, 1 tablespoon for large, and 2 tablespoons for extra large dogs. And again, you want to avoid lemon balm in dogs with hypothyroidism, also dogs that have high blood pressure or diabetes. You don't want to use it for your dog. The next herb that I love for stress is St. John's wort, and that's Hypericum porphyratum. St. John's wort is a beautiful, beautiful plant that I absolutely adore. It has these yellow flowers that you can kind of see through them when you hold them up to the light. St. John's Wort cannot be used for dogs that are in any type of pharmaceutical. Okay. So if your dog is on a pharmaceutical, don't use St. John's wort. You could use a flower essence of St. John's wort, but that's about it. Or I'm sorry, you could also use a homeopathic version of St. John's Wort as well. But if you're going to use the herbal mature herbal formula of or form of St. John's Wort, just avoid it if your dog's on pharmaceuticals. St. John's Wort helps calm sympathetic excess. It does this by increasing. It increases serotonin and dopamine levels and it balances the nervous system and strengthens the nerve connection pathways. We love that. It's going to help give your dog more access to that parasympathetic activity. Dosage, tincture, dosage. I'm going to go through it real quick. 1 drop extra small, 2 drops small, 3 drops medium, 4 drops large and 5 drops extra large dogs. And that's single drops, not droppers, but drops. And you're gonna do that twice a day before food, if you, if at all possible. If you can't, you can add it to a treat or you can add it to food. Dried herb dosage, you definitely can give St. John's wort as a dried herb. I would recommend turning that dried herb into an infusion like the lemon balm. But you can add the dried herb dosage to food. 150 milligrams for extra small, 300 milligrams for small. I would say 3 to 500 milligrams for medium, 500 to 800 milligrams for large and 800 to 1200 milligrams for extra large dogs, twice a day with food. For dogs that have that sympathetic overload. Another thing you want to avoid when using St. John's Wort is dogs with diabetes and dogs that have low platelet counts. The next plant that's good for sympathetic excess is a plant stem cell, which I use a lot. I use a lot of stem cell plant remedies in my practice. This one is called Fig Phytoembryonic therapy. Ficus carrica C A, R, I, C A. It's an extract of the buds and it creates an embryonic formula. So plant stem cells. I sell this in my store. Canine herbalist.com fig bud extract. It helps calm hyperarousal. It helps regulate digestion and it increases parasympathetic activity. It works really to smooth, like smooth out stomach muscles and it calms the nervous system that's in the walls of the digestive system, kind of. It's also known as the gut brain. Fig really helps dogs that are restless, dogs that have a lot of obvious tension and tightness in their bodies and anxiety, especially those dogs that have kind of like borderline or full on OCD behaviors. So for plant stem cells, the dosage you can use what's called a mother tincture, which I carry in my store, and 1 to 200, which is a homeopathic preparation. And I carry that one in my store too. The 1 to 200 dosage is 5 drops for extra small dogs, 10 drops for small dogs, 15 for medium, 20 for large and 25 for extra large dogs. Twice a day before food. Okay. In the mouth if you can. The mother tincture is 1 drop for extra small dogs, 3 drops for small dogs, 5 for medium, 7 for large, 9 for extra large. Twice day before food. Again, try to put it in the mouth. If you can't, add it to a treat and if you can't do that, add it to food. I like to. Sometimes I like to start out with the one to 200 dosage for about, I would say three to four weeks and then do another four weeks of the one, the mother tincture. Okay, so you know, when do you stop with these herbs? I'm going to discuss that in a minute. I've got two other herbs that I find that need mentioning for sure. So the next one isn't really an herb. It's a mushroom. I talked about it in our last podcast. Kind of giving you an overview of some mushrooms I like. Not all of them. I'm going to talk about more mushrooms in the future, but reishi mushroom, gandoderma, lucidium. Love reishi mushroom. We want a hot water extracted mushroom formula or a double extracted. I sell reishi mushroom from animals essentials in my store. Greg Tilford, who is a mentor of mine, he makes a excellent mushroom blend. Again, it's reishi mushroom. It's a liquid extract. Reishi helps balance the nervous system. It decreases sympathetic excess, it relieves tension and it decreases cortisol levels. All of that is going to calm down that stress response. Reishi is warming. Okay, so it's not like crazy warming, but it's slightly warming. So for dogs that are really hot, that have a really hard time regulating body temperature, they might have a difficult time with reishi, but pretty much all other dogs should be okay with it. I love how reishi balances hormones. It supports the digestive system, and again, it stimulates that parasympathetic function, that access to digestion. And that is what's so important. I think that reishi really has an affinity towards the nervous system. And it also, it's an immune modulator, so it's safe for autoimmune disease. So the dried herb dosage of reishi is approximately like 150 milligrams for extra small dogs, 300 milligrams for small, 600 milligrams for medium, 800 milligrams for large and 1000 milligrams for extra large dogs. Given twice daily. You can give it with food, the liquor extract. You're going to just follow the directions on the bottle for sympathetic excess extract activation, bringing that, I mean, not activation for decreasing sympathetic nervous system activation. I would give, for the liquid extract, I'd probably give probably a double dose for about three to four weeks. Skull cap, I love skullcap. It's one of my favorite herbs for the nervous system. For dogs. Specifically skullcap, which is scolateria latiflora, not baclodensis, which is Chinese skullcap, skullcap, fresh flower and leaf tincture. It's bitter, so you want to dilute it in a little bit of water before you're going to give it, give it a taste and see how it tastes so that you know, you know kind of roughly what your dog's going to taste. Skullcap has an affinity towards the digestive system and it also helps support the nervous system. It balances and relaxes tension. And that's the name of the game when we're dealing with that overstimulated state. And it supports the gut, it helps the Body go from a sympathetic state to a parasympathetic state. So your dog can help. It can help them rest and relax. And another thing I love about skullcap is it helps bring down any side effects from the rabies vaccine. Tincture dosage. I like to use skullcap in a tincture. Tincture dosage is 1 drop for extra small, 2 drops for small, 3 drops for medium, 4 drops for large, and 5 drops for extra small. Dogs, that's a good place to start. Twice a day before food, sometimes you might need like two drops for extra small, you know, and kind of just add a drop to that dosage. But start out lower and work your way up. For skullcap can be given as a glycerin, which is a extract in glycerin. And if you do use glycerin, you want to double the dosage that I just mentioned. Okay. Skullcap really doesn't have a lot of cautions. So, you know, if you have a question, just ask your veterinarian, your holistic veterinarian to see if Skullcap has any interactions with anything your dog might be on. Dogs with diabetes should always be careful with herbs, so you want to check with your vet for that as well. Okay. So those are some herbs that I find that really help the stress response. If you're a big, fluffy human, you definitely can use these types of herbs for yourself as well. I think that while dogs, you know, they. They react to external stimulus, they react to different things that are coming at them. And what we're really looking for is kind of that even keeled like calmness of the nervous system. Not that they can never react, but that they snap out of it quickly and then are able to relax. That's what we're looking for. And it's very important. If you have any questions about what I just said, you can always ask me a question at the podcast email found on k9herbalist.com okay, so now we're going to start the beginning of a little herbal use series that I'm going to add to the podcast. And we're going to start out with safety. Okay. Just going over a few things that you need to know about using herbs. So when picking an herb, herbs are individuals, dogs are individuals, herbs are individuals, and you want to know the properties, the energetics, the side effects, and the indications for any herb that you're going to use for your dog. How do you find that out? Well, I'm going to be writing some books on it, so. But that's going to be A couple years from now. But look on the Internet and type in the herb's name and then type in the word monograph. And then for good measure, you could always type in the word herbalist. A lot of wonderful herbalists out there have what you call written monographs. It's kind of like an herb's resume for all the details that you wanted to know about herbs. Right now I'm working on two books of 25 herbs apiece. And they will be monographs of herbs specifically indicated towards dogs and how to use them. You know, everything that you could possibly think about. But that's going to take a while. So look at a regular herbal monograph and see the different parts of that herb. Study that herb. Take some time to look at the herbs that you're giving your dog and seeing if they're well indicated for your individual dog. Non toxic herbs can become toxic if given the right circumstances. Okay, it's all about dosage. Now. A lot of the non toxic herbs I'm going to talk about need a super high dose to become toxic. And toxic doesn't always mean, you know, deadly. It means that it can cause sickness. And for me and my beliefs in herbs and herbal intelligence, any time an herb can heal, it can also cause, given the right dosage and circumstances. So you kind of want to, you know, know your herb as an individual and make sure that you're picking, you know, choosing plants, the right plants because the common name, which, let's just take in point, skullcap, can indicate multiple species of the plant. So there's Scolateria latifloria and there's Scolateria baclodensis. Right. Those are two, two forms of skullcap that is, that are used with dogs a lot. Completely different set of properties and uses. So you want to make sure that you know the Latin name of your herb that you're using and that you are getting the correct herb when you order it. Know if the herb you're using interferes with any drugs your dog might be taking? Okay, check with your veterinarian, you can Google it. You can use the Ask the Herbalist on my website and I can tell you, you can ask your holistic vet. There is a wonderful reference book called Veterinary Medicine by Barbara Fagra and Susan Wynn. Now this is a kind of a textbook book, but it's really has some great information about what drugs interfere with what plants. Also, I believe Greg Tilford Herbs for Dogs has a list of interactions with some pharmaceuticals in his reference book. So you know, take a look. But sometimes a Simple Google search will help you with that. Another tenant is if feeding herbs along with other medications, you, you want to give those herbs about three to four hours apart from prescription drugs. Okay. And then in non emergency situations, my, the thing that I do is I introduce herbs three days apart. Sometimes if your dog is super sensitive, five to 10 days apart and start super low dose and work your way up to the recommended dose because you know we're going to deal with dosage in another episode. But dosage, the dosages that you see on packages are general dosages. They may not be your dog's dosage. Okay. And so I always start out at a quarter of the suggested dose and then raise it about every two to three days. And say for instance, the recommended dose is 10 drops and you're doing really good. With fig phytoembryonic therapy, you are at six drops and you add another drop. Seven is fine. But when you get to eight, your dog starts to get acid reflux. Then you would go down to where you were doing well. That is most likely your dog's dosage for a while. When do you quit using herbs? So my goal of herbal medicine is you want to go in the right direction. If you take a couple steps back, some things get worse before they get better. You want to be able to move 10 steps forward. So you, and in a period of four to eight to 12 weeks, you want to make sure that you are definitely seeing improvement. If you're not, then you probably need to revisit dosage or pick a different herbal combination. It definitely herbs are not pharmaceuticals, so they take a while to work. Sometimes you can see things, you know, in the first couple of weeks, but other herbs take a lot longer to see benefit. We're gonna go over a lot of concepts in herbalism in future episodes, but I'm just kind of giving you a few pieces to let you digest them, maybe look some more information up. I promised you that in each episode. Well, I would call this a full episode. Full episode of the podcast. I was gonna give you some useful tips. So the tip for this episode is read your labels. This week I was looking up dog freeze dried dog food for a client. They do a lot of traveling and so they use freeze dried dog food for their, for their small dog. And the current dog food isn't working. And kind of looking at all the different freeze dried dog foods out there. And I was obviously I haven't done that a while and I was just taken aback at all the absolute crap there is currently in the Freeze dried world. Wow. I'm kind of at a loss for words when I think about it. A lot of big dog food companies are getting into the game, but if you look at the ingredients in the food, you are going to see a huge variety of of and kind of a hierarchy of crap. Freeze dried and then quality. Freeze dried. And don't believe the marketing hype. Okay, Read the label, read the ingredients. If a company doesn't give you a list of detailed ingredients, do not buy their food. I saw a company, I'm not going to mention any names but but it was touted as eco conscious. I really liked that they were thinking about like using invasive proteins. I thought that was kind of cool. I'm not sure about using some of the invasive proteins that they were think well that they're using. I don't have enough information about that. But the rest of the recipe was a disaster. And they even included canola meal. Why don't we just say inflammatory? Canola meal is highly inflammatory. It didn't say organic canola meal, it said just canola meal. And I didn't see non GMO on the package. Now I could have not seen it, but I looked everywhere, did not see them touting non GMO because canola is genetically modified. But even if it's non gmo, non GMO is not organic. It doesn't mean that the food is healthy because it's non gmo. It just means that it's not made with genetically modified organisms. That doesn't mean it's not sprayed with fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, glycophate, which is Roundup. It doesn't mean any of that. A lot of people misconstrued the organic label from the non GMO label. And non GMO does not mean healthy. Okay, going to say it one more time. Non GMO does not mean healthy. So back to the food. I was just amazed at all the crap that I was seeing while looking for a good freeze dried for this little dog. So read your labels. Don't believe the front of the bag. Don't believe the hype, don't believe the marketing, the beautiful images, the lovely name and all of that stuff. Because it's just a turd in a special package. And you really want to make sure that you're getting good quality, quality freeze dried food if that's what you're looking for instead of these recipes that are filled with inflammatory ingredients. Okay, so that is it for this episode of the podcast. Remember to follow me on social media, Instagram, Facebook, Canine Herbalist Dogs are individuals at Facebook. That's my private, private group. I also have a subscription community on canineherbalism.com we're really building a wonderful space to help people learn about herbs and dogs and get coaching and feedback. Live with me every month. So join us@canine herbalism.com you'll see the K9 community connection. That's my subscription group. $10 a month. You can quit at any time. I'm also asking you to sign up as interested for my book if you have not already. It will be in the notes of the podcast. That will really help and share this podcast. If you like it, write a review on the platform you use and that will help spread the news of this podcast. Thank you for joining me and we'll talk soon.