Reclaiming our Land with Rhett Kerby

Foreign. Hey friends. Welcome back to another episode of Conservation Stories. We're glad to have with us today Rhett Kirby. Rhett is a friend of mine from back in the day and I've been really fascinated to watch Rhett what you're doing like on LinkedIn and the information you've been providing to people about soil health and soil remediation. And I'm just excited to have you on today to hear kind of a little bit about your background. So kind of tell people where you're from, your little bit of your history and how you got where you are today.

Yeah. Thank you, Tiller. Thank you guys for the invitation to come on the podcast. It's very kind of you to ask. I grew up in the Panhandle, graduated high high school from Muleshoot. I did go to school at Littlefield up until the ninth grade, so northwest of Lubbock. From there after high school went to Texas Tech and studied agronomy and have an undergrad in agronomy from Texas Tech and a graduate degree from Iowa State in agronomy. But after college, after really after my undergrad or during my undergrad it had an internship with usda, nrcs, Natural Resources Conservation Service. And, and so working at NRCS was I did that for about nine years. In which of that, about five or six of that was as a district conservationist where you basically have a county to run and there's a lot of different responsibilities that come along with running a county. According to nrcs. A big part of that is soil erosion, soil health, being able to understand and communicate science based conservation practices to farmers and ranchers, helping them navigate farm bill programs. It was a great, great learning experience. They, they have great technical documents, great technical research that, that mainly comes through the Ag research service. In 2010, late 2010, early 2011, I left the federal government for an opportunity to go into the private sector where I I managed Bammert Seed Company which was in my hometown of Milshu and Bambert Seed Co. If you don't know, is a pretty unique company. They, they do some really cool things with growing and producing native warm season grasses forbs and legumes. So they do a lot with pollinators and, and grasses and, and just conservation in general. And so it really was a fitting next step in my career I felt like but what became really obvious during that part of my career was the my exposure to non agricultural needs related to soil science and plant science. For instance at Bammer Seed Company because they're not selling row crop seed, they're selling native warm season grasses and forbs and legumes. A lot of that goes into land reclamation. Which part of my agronomy background is land reclamation. That's part of what Texas Tech concentrates on as land reclamation. So I understood land reclamation, but I had never had an opportunity to really begin to communicate with industries that needed land reclamation until I was there at the seed company. And the folks doing land reclamation are civil engineers or landscape architects or some sort of service provider, not farmers and ranchers. And I jokingly say you can give a farmer or rancher seed and he knows what to do with it. You give most civil engineers seed and they don't know what to do with it. They don't just like I don't understand civil engineering, they don't understand the disciplines that go along with agronomy. And so there was this disconnect. So fast forward, connect some dots. Me and my brothers formed a company in 2014 that was really, the intent was in 2014 for my youngest brother to have a job coming out of college. And he did that part time for about three years, but landed a large oil and gas project in 2017. I was able to make an exit from the seed company in 2018. And since then we've been doing land reclamation work, which is all a function of soil science, soil health, all of those things that we've kind of talked about. We've been doing that in about, I think we're up to maybe 25 or 30 states now where we do land reclamation for all energy sectors. Renewable energy, oil and gas, commercial construction, hydrogen plants, limestone plants, quarries, mining. And so we do a lot now with most of it is non, non ag related, not row crop. I mean our clients are, and our customers are, are not farmers and ranchers, but they're, they are people and that need soil science solutions.

Well, not them thinking like immediately what pops into my head is the whole south side of Lubbock and what it looks like, you know, when we're about to, you know, have a new development come in and you notice how blows like crazy and you know, just some of those, you know, when you say non agricultural, I'm like, man, it's everywhere around us, you know, that need is there. We kind of think that, you know, the farmers and the ranchers are the ones that are responsible, you know, to take care of the land. But really, you know, we're talking about corporations and you know, just even individuals that have, have that need. I recently spoke to a young man that lives out on the south side of Lubbock and is concerned about, you know, the water out there and how do I get, you know, some seed and how can I, you know, how do I, if I get the seed, how to get it planted? I only have 10 acres, but I don't want to put in, you know, Bermuda grass, you know, what do I do, you know, and you know, just some of those smaller individuals that see the need and they care.

Yeah, and you're exactly right. It is unique. There are, there are unique issues that come along with working in that industry and a lot of it's related to. Yeah, you're right. Dealing with corporations having to have certain trainings and, and working, having to have certain insurance requirements and you know, versus working in an agricultural setting on farm. Those things are, you're either exempt by statute from a lot of those things or, or there's not a, not a concern. There's, there's different dynamics that go along. We definitely can't operate at the level, at the efficiency level that agriculture does because there is red tape and. But you bring up a great example of an urban setting needing soil conservation, soil science, without going down the path of regulation. There are states. Let me back up. The Clean Water act of the United States protects a lot of these resources that you and I are talking about. It's really a function of does anybody on a local level regulate or monitor for them? Even if the laws exist, if they're not monitored for, corporations don't see the need. And uniquely a farmer has a vested interest in protecting his soil health because he wants to see it produce. On the contrary, a corporation developing land, they see that as an added cost. They don't see the benefit in that. They see that as a burden. And so that's where I do unfortunately feel like regulation may need to play a role some in managing natural resources in those settings. Otherwise no one else is going to. The corporations don't do that within themselves.

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I jokingly tell my friends I'm as capitalist as they come, but, or, or, and there are some resources, whether it's human resources, whether it's environmental resources, non renewable resources, USDA defines that as soil, water, plants, air, animals, those in a, in a capitalist world, those resources are not able to protect themselves. Animals can't protect themselves, the soil can't protect itself. But in their non renewable, you know, when you think back from a science perspective, these are non renewable resources that can become extinct or unavailable. The soil, once it's, once you destroy your topsoil and let it blow away or wash away, it's, it's not feasible to expect that to be made again or be brought back. And so, you know, I do feel like there are some in, in a capitalist setting where some Resources need to be protected by statute because capitalist views to create margins and profit do not. There is no economic equation that says, oh, we need to take that into account. So, so by definition it's going to be left out. So yeah, I think there are things that there, there are non renewable resources is the category I use that probably need to have be made part of that capitalist equation because otherwise they will be exhausted to their entirety and be gone forever. And so I do think there is.

A place, yeah, I agree. Not, you know, we've said another podcast that like the hardest place to find is the middle, but that's generally where you need to wind out. You know, like you have to balance, have that balance on both sides and it's hard, especially in the world we live in these days to find that, but it's really important. One of the things that I love that about what you're doing is what you're doing in solar farms. So I've done some, some work in solar farms and I'm kind of like you. I think we need all the energy we can possibly get. Like, we're going to need it. We're going to need all the energy we can get, you know, so I know solar farms are controversial and you know, some people, you know, I know that they're taking up, you know, some good viable farmland. And in other areas, I don't think that's necessarily true. Maybe here where we are, I see them more as added value for people who are maybe not would not be able to stay on their land if they didn't have that extra income. So let's talk for just a minute about that and what, you know, in the past have had some discussion on what, what do those contracts need to look like that will ensure that the landowner, you know, that their, their land is taken care of. And what are you guys doing to, to help not just landowners, but the, the energy companies as well.

Yeah, and that's, that's the really kind of where I enjoy spending most of my, my intellectual capital is, is in that conversation. Because whether it's the, the farmer, whether it's the energy company, whether it's. Generally everyone in that equation wants to do what's right by the land. At least I go into those conversations assuming that and from the landowner's perspective, what my goal is with a landowner is to explain to them that they have a responsibility as a landowner to the level that they're interested in, in protecting their own natural resources. Because that capitalist equation that I was talking about is not going to do that for them. So if they value their land or, or the soil or the wildlife or whatever, they need to be proactive in negotiating that in a way that protects their interest because it's not going to happen once that contract is executed and turned over to construction unless those things are very well provisioned, those things will not happen. Those protections will not take place. So I try to explain that to the landowner and we have lots of attorneys, we have language that we could present on the landowner's behalf simultaneously on other projects. We'll work with as a consultant, work with the energy companies to help them create language that protects these natural resources that, that, that they want to protect. They generally, they just don't know how and it's, it's a function of, of they want to learn how and I'm, and so we help them as a consultant do that. And in, in a solar lease negotiation, what I've learned is that most solar developers will pay for the landowner. They're the landowner's legal representation and their consulting representation. So there's no, generally no out of pocket expense to the landowner to, to do these things. It's just the landowner needs to understand what he can, what he can do.

Right. Yeah. So let me ask you, you know, I've heard people say, you know, that some of these solar farms they've, you know, they've leased, you know, different, different, you know, chemicals or whatever. And then now that they've got a brownfield site like it's, it's ruined the land underneath it. I've never personalized personally seen that. But is, is that something that has happened in the past?

I have yet to experience any sort of ground. You're saying contamination from the panel of solar.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've heard that, but I've like, where has that happened? I've never heard of it. I mean I've heard people say it happens, but I've never seen evidence that it does happen.

Yeah, I'm unaware of any. We spend a lot of time on solar farms and I have not yet seen anything to, to make me believe that that is it that could happen.

Well, you guys run, you run sheep?

Yeah, we own sheep as, as a company we own, oh, probably between a thousand and two thousand head of dorper sheep hair sheep that we run on solar farms as a vegetation management tool. Running sheep for vegetation management is different than running sheep to harvest, harvest the vegetation and put weight on your, on your lambs. Like two different.

Okay.

Two different models.

Okay.

For instance, we're Managing with sheep vegetation heights between say, 6 and 18 inches. We've got to keep the vegetation there with sheep. So anybody that does this knows that the stocking rates has to fluctuate with the amount of vegetation that's being grown. So we, we move sheep on and off these solar farms to balance the vegetative growth during that time of year to make sure it's not stopped too heavy or stock too light. So, so yeah, that's, that's one of the fun parts that we enjoy doing is grazing.

That's interesting. Well, let me ask you another question. So do you feel like that people are more concerned now with environmental concerns? Like more, more corporations are thinking about these things? I know my experience has been, you know, in working with some oil and gas companies, particularly in the Permian Basin, that there is, there's a realization, you know, that in the past, you know, people haven't done, done what they should do, but that there's a, you know, commitment to moving forward, to do, to do better, you know, and that there's work to be done and that there's an interest in getting that done. Do you, are you seeing that same movement?

Yes, yeah, I am. I mean, I, I, I really am. I think they're always, it's oil and gas is unique because, you know, it, there always be those that, you know, the group that, that may, that may not. But as a whole, I do feel like oil and gas is becoming more conscious of, of that and, and it's a function, I think of ESGs or the ESG movement. It's, it, there's a, it's just a different conversation now about managing resources. Especially when an oil and gas company wants to or has the goal of creating a carbon neutral barrel of oil. You know, I don't know if they'll ever get there, but it, it changes, it changes that the mentality if you're going to become carbon neutral and pump oil, good luck, number one. But you, you, you really need to start valuing the things in the environment that capture carbon. Well, what is that? To me, the biggest carbon sink there is is the soil. And so, so yeah, it, it, I think there are multiple conversations that are, that are leading in that direction for sure.

Yeah, yeah. It's an, I don't know, it's a, you know, you, it's easy to get to feel discouraged about, you know, things that go on. But also, I'm always so encouraged when I see your post on LinkedIn. I encourage people to follow you. Do they follow Rhett Kirby? Do they follow Kurtek? What's the best way to follow you? To see those videos that you're producing, educational videos on LinkedIn.

Yeah, most of them go up on my, on my page and I'll share some of them out to the company page, too. But it's, I don't know, it's just organically been something that I've posted videos for seven or eight years now and, and they're great.

They're great. I've learned, I've learned so much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so tell people if, you know, people want to, you know, they have a need or they want to learn more about your company, where would they go?

Yeah. So you could go to our website, which is Kertech K E R T E C llc dot com. You could, you could stop by if you're in shallow water. We're there on the s curve on 179. You can stop by there. Message me on, on LinkedIn. That's a great, great way. Or I'd be glad, I think. Hillary, I've shared my email, I believe, with you guys. It's, it's R Kirby K-E R B Y@kurtech llc.com.

Okay, well, we will take all of that and we will link it all up in the show notes and people can just click and get right to you there. So thanks, Rhett, for your time. I really appreciate it. And thanks, listeners, for joining us for another conservation stories. See you soon.