“South Africa's Economic Genocide" - Entrepreneur Rob Hersov SLAMS Corrupt Gov't, Zuma & Racist Laws | PBD Podcast | Ep. 589 — PBD Podcast

I'm putting myself at risk here, by the way. We've got lunatics running the asylum.

What can you tell us about him?

President Cyril Ramaphosa. Complete gangster, rogue, villain.

So have you spent any time with Elon Musk?

The South African government said to Elon Musk, if you want to bring Starlink to South Africa, you've got to give 30% of your business to a black person, and we'll tell you who.

I mean, who said this? Jacob Zuma?

Our government says it's a government policy. We get poorer every year. The country is falling apart.

With youth unemployment at 61%.

Highest in the world. How? South Africa is Germany in the early 1930s. They're pushing anti-white racism and socialism by the day. And let me give you the worst of it.

Tell me more.

These are the things he is saying publicly to 100,000 people in a stadium. He says, "Kill the Boer." One farmer, one bullet. We will slit the throat of whiteness.

It's from South Africa and we think it's a fraud what they did to diamonds.

De Beers is sitting on a mountain of unsold diamonds. The best short in the world.

You say you're a minimalist. Don't you have a $30 million property like in Dubai or something, like a vacation property or no?

Okay, so we like 3 things. Did you ever think you would make it?

I feel I'm supposed to take sweet victory.

I know this life meant for me. Adam, what's your point?

The future looks bright.

My handshake is better than anything I ever signed right here.

You are a one of one.

My son's right about you.

I don't think I've ever said this before. Okay, so there's a lot of news about South Africa today, and so happens we have a very special guest here with us, Robert Herzog from South Africa. 3 fun facts before we get started. Number 1, he's had 3 hole-in-ones in golf. Number 2, he was the first director on Fiji Water. Okay, first director when Fiji Water came out, he was on the board. And number 3, the movie Fantastic Mr. Fox, he is the helicopter pilot. It's great to have you on a podcast.

What a start. Yeah, can you do this every time? Thank you.

Well, hopefully Katie's going to watch and say, oh my God, I'm married to a freaking stud.

I wish she'd realize that.

Well, she's going to know after this podcast. So, okay, so for the average person, when you think about countries, you know, we all know a little bit about China, we all know a little bit about, you know, India, what's going on. Okay, we know a little bit about Germany, maybe more. We know something about— everybody knows a lot about America.

South Africa, I don't know.

While we're doing this, you know, everything that's going on, you're seeing Elon Musk on our show, a couple of his tweets. He's saying, you know, we got to stop racism in South Africa, but it's racism against whites and all this stuff. And then with the 58, we got a lot of things I will talk about there. But before doing that, do you mind taking a minute and just kind of share with the audience your background so they know who you are and what you've done?

Sure. I'm, uh, I was born in 1960 in Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm a fifth-generation South African. My mother's side came from England and Scotland, and the relative that came to South Africa, was in the British Army and he finished the Indian Rebellion and came to South Africa to retire. And my father's family escaped Eastern Europe and Russia and ended up in Cape Town. And I was born into a very wealthy family because my grandfather and his buddy and business partner founded a company called Angloval, which in the '60s, '70s, and '80s was one of the top 5 mining industrial companies in South Africa. And I've had every privilege known to man, but I believe that I've taken advantage of every opportunity given to me. And I'll give you a quick potted bio. I can do this very quickly so it isn't boring. So I was at school and university in South Africa, and then I spent 2 years as an infantry officer in the South African Defense Force in the apartheid era. And I left when—

This is what? This is '90s?

'83, '84.

'83, '84.

In other words, South Africa did a major invasion of Angola in '85.

And you're in at that point?

Well, no, I'd finished by then. I'd done my 2 years and I was an infantry officer. Got it. And then I came to America, went to Goldman Sachs on Wall Street for 2 years, Harvard Business School, then worked for Rupert Murdoch as his right-hand man in New York.

Literally? Literally.

I carried his bag. I went to every meeting. I helped write speeches.

How did you get introduced to him? By your family?

You want to know that story?

Yeah, I do.

I was dating a gorgeous redhead and I hadn't got a job lined up for You know, everyone had done these interviews.

American redhead or South African redhead?

American redhead. New York redhead.

Yeah.

Gorgeous.

Good. And they're crazy though, but that's a different conversation.

This is good crazy. And she said, what are you going to do after business school? I said, I don't know. I'd like to get into the media business. And she said, oh, you should meet Stan Schuman. He runs— he's one of the Allen Company heads. This is— remember, this is 1989. I had the most extraordinary interview.

With Stan?

Wait. I went to see Stan Shuman at Allen Company. Stan said, "You're Rob. You want to be in the media business. I'm a media investment banker, so you're in the wrong place. You need to actually consider News Corp. And I'm on the board of News Corp." He was at the time. "And I'm going to introduce you. Before you meet Rupert, you need to meet John Evans. He's the visionary." I haven't said a word, by the way. I've said hello, I haven't said a word. So he calls the secretary, says, "Call John Evans, tell her, you know, tell John I'm sending Rob Herschel, South African, to see him." Gave me the address, I shook his hand, left, haven't said a word. Walked down to HarperCollins, which is owned by News Corp. As I walk in, there's this stringy-haired, gray, older guy who goes, "Before you say anything, let me tell you, I'm a reformed alcoholic and drug addict, and I'm marrying a girl half my age." I almost dropped to my knees and said, I'm your man. But I still haven't said hello yet. And he starts telling me about the future of the media business. He goes, you know, in supermarkets—

What year is this?

'89.

So in supermarkets, I'm following.

I'm still at Harvard Business School. So he says, in supermarkets, the fish need to be near the chips. And he's talking about these weird things. For 20 minutes he talks. I still haven't said a word. And he said, well, if you want to work for News Corp, you've got to meet Rupert. So hold on. Calls Rupert, says, I've got this guy, Rob, Rob, from South Africa, Harvard MBA. Yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, he can come and see you right now. Gives me Rupert's address, 1211 6th Avenue. Sends me. Still haven't said a word in my interview. Get to Rupert, walk in. He goes, you must be Rob. I go, yeah. Please sit down. Rob, what do you think the future of the media industry is? And I go, technology? And he goes, no, it's content. And then he spoke for 15 minutes about why content, which was correct. And then he said, okay, you're hired. What are you going to do for me? I've said one word in 3 interviews and I've got a job.

Just because of Stan, because of who Stan is?

Just because of the redhead.

Should have got that question. So this redhead, why is this redhead so trusted?

Because her father and Stan were best friends. So she got me the interview. He assumed I went to Harvard Business School.

Goldman.

Goldman.

Military, infantry, South Africa. So when you work with Rupert, what was he like to work with and how much time did you spend with him?

Every day.

How was it like to work with him?

So what I did—

Right now what I just did is 1989, Network, Rupert Murdoch at the time was 725. So he's known, he's a power player, but Fox News hasn't yet started, right?

Right. So I spent 2 and a half years with him.

Okay.

And he'd hand me— everybody wanted to get in front of Rupert Murdoch. So they'd all be going, Rupert, could you look at this opportunity, this deal? He'd have a pile of decks and things on his desk with a little note of who gave it to him. And then every Monday morning, he'd kind of have a look and he'd say, ah, this guy's an idiot, throw them in the bin. And then he'd go, OK, this guy's important, read that. And he'd give me 3 business plans every Monday. And I'd have to come back and on Friday have to present them to him. He'd ask me 3 to 5 questions on each one and immediately know the value, how it would fit into his empire, if he was interested.

This is about buying those companies and investing in those companies.

So in those days, Christian music was taking off, but country music was barely known. And this guy, um, Jim Garcia— I can't believe I remember the name— from Nashville had sent this buy into country music TV. I did the analysis, presented to Rupert. He asked me 5 questions and he went He used to rub his forehead and he said, "Offer them $30 million, not a cent more. If they don't take it, move on." It's now worth many billions. And he could analyze things that quickly. He was also a real man of the people. He talked to the elevator guy. He talked to the— in those days, we just walked down and get a taxi.

Was he charismatic?

Charismatic, funny, decent.

Charming?

Common man. Charming, but not interested in— Not interested in money, not interested in, you know, important people. He was interested in humor and being successful and building his business.

What were 3 to 5 questions he would ask?

I wish I'd written them down. Oh, genius. I wish I'd written them down. And so I spent 2 and a half years with him. And then he said to me, when he ran into trouble, he tried to buy Time magazine. Remember, they did the merger with Warner. He was running into big financial troubles then, and he said to me, okay, you need to go with Barry Diller to LA and work with him on setting up the Fox Network.

So you were there when that whole deal was being, being done?

The Time Warner mess, the bidding.

Did you ever meet Ailes? Were you ever around Roger Ailes?

I didn't meet Roger.

Never met Roger?

He was after me because he kind of came in from left field.

Were you around Rupert's kids, the boys?

Not as much. They were pretty young.

Got it.

Yeah. So Rupert, you know, when you were with him, you're the most important person in the world. He'd concentrate, listen. And I remember one story he told me. Can we go off piece?

Sure, of course.

We went to— and I can't remember who— somebody's 80th birthday in this expensive 60th, you know, 60th, 6th Avenue, Fifth Avenue apartment. We walk in and Rupert says, I'm going to give you a life lesson. See those people walking towards me as quickly as they can? They're the guys who want to sell me something. But if you look in the corner, there are two guys talking to the host's children. They're the people you need to talk to. They've made it in life. Isn't that interesting?

Wow. The people that are running to come to me are trying to sell me something, trying to sell me something. But the people that are talking to—

they're interested in what the host's kids are doing.

Those are the ones that have made it in life.

Yeah, talk to them. They'll be the most interesting ones.

Very interesting. Very interesting perspective.

And he was nice to the common man. You know, if the Queen had offered him a knighthood, he would have turned it down. He wasn't interested in that stuff. He and Elon Musk— I'm a libertarian conservative Judeo-Christian. He and Elon Musk, we owe an eternal debt of gratitude to. Because Rupert came in with, you know, Sky Television, Sky News, Fox TV, uh, the New York Post, and he captured the center, center-right, free market, capitalist, Judeo-Christian part of American media. And Elon did the same thing when he bought Twitter and turned it into X.

And so one is from Australia, one is from South Africa.

There we go.

So have you spent any time with Elon Musk?

I met him once at SpaceX, a 20-minute meeting. It was extraordinary because his assistant said, look, you're South African, we'll give you the lunch slot, but it's only 20 minutes, only has 20-minute meetings. He arrived on the second and I said, well, we better order lunch. He said, I've ordered already, turned up. And then he spoke about Tesla and the problems he was having. And it was 15 years ago. And with 2 minutes to go, I knew it was 20 minutes and he leaves. I said, 'Elon, how can I help you?' And he looked at me in this weird way and he went, 'No one's ever asked me that question.' And he said, 'Okay, if you hear or see me do anything stupid, let me know, because I get no feedback.' 'If you hear or see me do anything stupid, I get no feedback.' 'Tell me, because I get no feedback.' It's funny because one kid who's a YouTuber, brilliant kid, goes and visits his SpaceX gives him one feedback on things.

Have you heard about the story or no? One kid goes, gives him one small feedback on what to do. Elon invites him down, takes him and shows him and says, look at the change that we made based on the feedback that you gave, because he saw a video of this guy. It's a very— Rob, do you know the story or no? No, I'm looking for it now. Yeah, there's— there— it's a very fascinating story of, oh, Yeah, but his—

Elon's attention to detail. He cares. He's extraordinary. And I just say, thank you, Rupert.

Thank you, Elon. YouTuber question. YouTuber's question made Elon Musk completely rethink SpaceX rocket. The YouTuber Everyday Astronaut was on a tour of the SpaceX Starbase facility. He asked a very intelligent question and certainly gave Elon Musk pause for thought and opportunity to fix this vital error. This is a year ago, year and a half ago. What's the question, Rob? Let's see if we can find it. Everyone's realizing he made a violent error. The intelligent— everything I was saying about Tim was asked at exactly right time for the billionaire to realize that his error and crucially corrected. You don't even need a cold gas thruster system, you already have hot gas, says Musk. But this is only for the booster, right? Tim asked. Go a little bit lower. And appearing deep in thought, the SpaceX founder and CEO replies, arguably, now you mention it, it might be wise to do this for the ship too. We're going to fix that. And it's not the first time Musk has taken on project feedback. Tim was visiting SpaceX Starbase in 2021. However, upon being invited back more than 6 months later, it was revealed SpaceX chief Elon Musk that his question led to vital changes.

Wow.

I mean, this is—

this is extraordinary guy.

Yeah. There's a story about Sam Walton. It's a great book called Made in America where Sam, you know, is going all over the world looking at all the markets that are being made and he pays close attention. And one day he's at this place in Europe And the lady comes in and says, you know, what are you looking for? So I'd like to, you know, find this. So let me get one of my associates to help you. Says, what did you call your coworker? Associates. Great. We're gonna call our employees associates. Then there's these two business partners from Brazil who are in the same business as he is. They come to visit Sam Walton. He picks them up on a truck all day. They spend time with Sam Walton. He says, the entire time Sam kept asking us questions of what we were doing in Brazil that was working out. By the time it was done, us spending time with them, We didn't learn anything about Walmart, but he learned everything about what we were doing when we went back to Brazil.

That's Rupert Murdoch.

Got it. Makes sense to me.

So we'd be riding in a cab because we hop in a cab now and again in those days, and he'd ask the cab driver, what newspaper do you read? Which page do you turn to first? He'd absolutely ask. Curious. Curious. Yeah.

So South Africa.

Well, I'll give you quickly my bio.

Please go for it.

And I'll do this really, really fast.

So you're a billionaire. You made a lot of money.

In rand. In rand.

In rand?

Yeah. Which is how much? And the rand is depreciating.

Which is how much in ours?

Oh, it used to be 1 to 1 in the '70s, but now it's 20 to 1.

20 to 1?

Yeah. Okay.

So you've made money.

You've made money.

I've made a lot of money.

You've done okay for yourself.

Yeah, I founded MarqueeJet in Europe. I built a big business, Sportal, the biggest sports media internet business in Europe, which failed. So I had a lot of learnings there. I sold MarqueeJet Europe to NetJets, was vice chairman of NetJets. I'm still a senior advisor to VistaJet. So I love the aviation business. And then I've done some very big deals. I owned a third of Air Berlin, and I just won a very big license this morning. What's that? A betting exchange in South Africa.

You're the first?

I'm the first.

Get out of here.

Yeah. So Betfair in Australia is the most profitable business in Australia. We have just won the license to this.

Fantastic. That's a big deal.

Yeah. And I've done a whole lot of other things.

Yeah.

I see you've got a lot of sports teams here. I love rugby, so I'm going to have to get you a Springbok shirt. But I owned Vicenza Calcio in Italy. I'm the first foreigner to buy a football team in Italy. I owned it for 2 years.

How was that?

It was— well, it was one of those businesses that had a tiny profit, a tiny club. And Vicenza, if you're driving in Italy from Milan to Venice, you go past Verona and there's one little turnoff to Vicenza, which no one notices. You go straight on to Venice. I owned Vicenza Calcio, Vicenza Football Club, and the only piece of silver where they ever won was a month after I bought it. They won the Italian Cup, beating Napoli 1-0.

Wow.

But now today, every restaurant I go to in London, Italian restaurant, they go, "Mr.

Presidente." So what do you know about Tranmere Rovers?

Not much. I don't follow football.

I was trying to be selfish and trying to get a little bit of business counsel to see if you knew anything about them.

But a final quick thing. So I've done lots of entrepreneurial things, investors. And after 31 years of living in America, Europe, and mainly the UK, I decided to go back to South Africa in 2017.

I read that.

Yeah, 31 years of—

why did you go back?

And people are going the other way, they're leaving in droves.

Yeah, there's brain drain that's taking place over there.

Yeah, I went back because I looked at my wife in the eyes and said, my parents are still alive. My father's 99 this year, mother 91. Wow. We're still, our name is still reasonably well known in South Africa, being industrial family. And I wanna go home, I'm homesick. But we'll only go home for 2 to 3 years because Jacob Zuma, the president at the time, is going to destroy, is destroying the country. Let's go back, show our kids, see South Africa, and then leave. And what I'm not gonna do is get involved in politics or invest in anything in South Africa that has any long-term horizon or involves the government.

That makes a lot of sense. So you say—

So what did I do?

No, but wait a minute. You just said the president of South Africa is destroying the country, and that's why I'm going back for 2 to 3 years, but I'm not going to get involved in politics. That makes a lot of sense, Robert.

Yeah, I really stuck to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That makes a lot of sense.

So why is he destroying the country and how is he destroying it?

So I'll give you a quick potted history. In 1994, apartheid ended. And the country and government was handed over peacefully to the majority, the black majority. And for 12, 14 years, South Africa was actually a success story. It was the miracle democracy, the miracle story. The West said, "We've won. We've saved South Africa. There's democracy." And the country grew at 3, 4, 5% a year. There was meritocracy. There were black, white, colored Indian people in all the jobs. And everything was going well. In 2008, the rot began. So there was Mandela, Mbeki, and then President Jacob Zuma, complete gangster, rogue villain.

He's a gangster? Jacob Zuma?

He's the gangster. And he instituted a thing called state capture. All our state-owned enterprises, railways, electricity supply, South African Airways, he put loyalists in place whose only job was to steal. And hundreds of billions of rand were stolen and offshored. And that was when the country began, began its descent into potential economic collapse.

This is in '08.

This is '08, '09 till 2017.

So state capture is a type of systemic political corruption in which private interests significantly influence a state's decision-making processes to their own advantage. The term was first used in World Bank in 2000, describing certain Central Asian countries making the transition from Soviet communism, where small corrupt groups use their influence over government officials to appropriate government decision-making in order to strengthen their economic positions. Okay, so 2008, 2009, he's doing this.

He begins it. He begins it, and they, they remove all the middle-class, small-town, big-city employees who for decades have been handling maintenance of the local sewage plant. You know, all those jobs that the smaller people in smaller jobs do day to day to keep the economy going. And they put ANC, their government loyalists, in place who had no competence and who ended up stealing and breaking. Every one of our state-owned enterprises either bankrupt or stolen to death as of today. But in 2017, the ANC elected a new president because they had over 50% of the votes, President Cyril Ramaphosa, who everyone believed would save the country. He's been just as bad as Zuma. And he arrives tomorrow to meet President Donald Trump.

He arrives tomorrow to meet President Trump?

Ramaphosa.

Yeah, he said he was negotiating with the president.

So tomorrow might, if it's recorded tomorrow, might be in the past.

That's right.

Yeah.

So, so now how do you feel about him versus Jacob Zuma?

Jacob Zuma was fundamentally evil and malevolent. He's like a populist clown, dangerous. And he's trying to come back into power and he'll be way, way, way more dangerous if he does. Cyril Ramaphosa is now head of the ANC and he was a trade unionist. He was one of the first South African black billionaires. He has the McDonald's franchises in South Africa. He understands the mining industry. He's the kind of guy you would actually like having a meal with, like talking to. But he's like a pillow. He takes the shape of the last person that sat on him. He'll tell you what you want to hear, then he'll meet trade unionists, tell them what they want to hear, and so on and so on.

Have you met him before?

I've met him, but I refused. He's trying to meet me. I refuse to meet him.

Zuma or the existing president?

I've spoken to Zuma and I've met Ramaphosa. They're both equally bad because what they've done over the last 14 years is institute racism, anti-white, anti-coloured, anti-Indian racism, socialism, and their government has been kleptocratic and ineptocratic. So on one hand, stealing, on the other hand, completely incompetent. They have de-industrialized our country, and we are growing at 1% economic growth, and our population growth is 2%. What does that mean? We get poorer every year. The country is falling apart because of the ANC.

Yeah, I'm looking at some data here saying South Africa's GDP has stagnated, averaging 0.8% annually from 2012 to 2022. Again, 2008, 2009, Jacob Zuma gets in, compared to 4.8% the previous decade, '94 to '04. Unemployment reached 33.5% in 2024. With youth unemployment at 61%.

Highest in the world. Highest in the world.

How?

By complete incompetence and malevolence. Evil. They're pushing anti-white racism and socialism by the day. And let me give you the worst of it. We have a policy called Black Economic Empowerment, BEE. The reason Starlink isn't in South Africa yet is because the South African government said to Elon Musk, if you want to bring Starlink to South Africa, you've got to give 30% of your business to a Black person, and we'll tell you who.

I mean, that's Jacob Zuma.

Our government says it's a government policy.

So whatever business you're running— I'm doing $100 million a year, I built this thing myself— I have to give it to a Black person, 30% of it, and they pick and choose who it is.

If you're dealing with— if you have any dealing with the government, if you have any dealing with the South African government.

So if I have a government contract and I'm doing business with them, 30% of the ownership of the company needs to go to a Black person that they choose.

Or that you choose that's acceptable to them.

Or that you choose that is acceptable to them.

But in most cases these people— I say it's Rob.

Rob is a Black person in South Africa, let's just say. And you say, no, Rob is not good. I then I say Humberto, and Humberto is a Black person. You see, I will approve that one. Yeah, that's how it works.

And they don't have to put any money up. You effectively have to fund it. It's, it's, it is. Is this a law? It's a law.

It's like if you find, if he searches it, he'll find it.

Type in BEE or Broad Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE. Have a look, South Africa. And it's getting worse. They're trying to institute a law of any private company of 50 or more employees has to have BE, whether you work with the government or not. So like a real estate agent. This is currently on the table, but I'll give you one worse law than this.

What's that?

You ready for these 3 words?

I do.

Tell me what this means to you, and it's been signed in January. Expropriation without compensation.

Unpack it.

Would you invest in this country that says We can expropriate not just your land, not just your mines, the watch off your arm and your house without compensation if it's in the public interest.

What's the interest incentive for me?

Well, you'll never invest in South Africa with the law.

No, why would I do that?

You wouldn't. Why would I invest anymore in South Africa? I won't. Foreign direct investment has dried up and our government, our moronic ANC government, continues to institute. Donald Trump is angry with South Africa. I mean, it's amazing we've even made his priority list because he calls South Africa DEI as a country. It is racist and socialist and destructive and everybody's suffering.

Now let me ask you to stay on this because there's this— we can go into—

you're getting me fired up here.

No, I love this because I'm looking at foreign direct— Rob, can you pull up foreign direct investment in South Africa? History of foreign direct investment in South Africa year over year. I want to take a look at this foreign direct investment in South Africa year over year.

Did you find BEE on there?

I'm going to go back to that as well. The one thing that I saw that in 2023 it was $96.5 billion, in 2022 was $151 billion. So dropped 50% in one year is what it is. What is foreign direct investment South Africa in 2024? FDI South Africa 2024.

I need a Rob.

Yeah, Rob is very good at what he does.

He acted in Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings. You should give him a double-headed axe and a white horse. I mean, that's how I see him.

Okay, so Q1, for example, FDI of 24 billion. And Q2 was $16 billion. Q3, did they show you what it is in 2024? I'm looking at the same thing you're looking at right now. Be curious to know what the number is. So, okay, sometimes I'm thinking about some flows of 7.5 billion rand, which is foreign in Q4, making a turnaround from $3.2 billion. Okay, now money's not coming in in 2024 and people are leaving. Yeah.

And the economy's half as growing at half the rate that population growth growing. We have the highest, one of the highest murder rates in the world, one of the highest rape rates in the world. And remember, most rapes aren't reported, so the reported rapes are one of the highest in the world. We have load shedding, which means you have intermittent electricity, sometimes 6 hours a day of no electricity. How do you run a country on that? And it's because the ANC has broken and stolen all of our state-owned enterprises. They're destroying the country.

The ANC is. Okay, so Rob, can you type this in on Google? Type in B-BEE South Africa 30%. Just type in 30%. There you go, percent. So if you zoom in a little bit, you're going to see what it says right there. In South Africa, Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment framework, a 30% target is commonly used for Black ownership in specific sectors for certain compliance requirements. This target is particularly prominent in sectors like telecommunications, broadcast, and post. It also applies to large companies aiming— but does this mean the ownership target is the one I'm looking at? In many cases, the 30% target refers to Black equity ownership in a company. This means that at least 30% of the company's shares or equity must be held by Black individuals. The 30% target is often seen in sectors like telecommunications, broadcast. Okay, so they announced this. How many businesses had to give up 30% or is it just for startups?

No, it's most of the big corporates.

They went to the big corporates and said, you got to give 30% of it to one Black person.

Or a group of Black people or an SPV of Black people.

What did that cause people to— and this is Jacob Zuma.

Well, it actually began even earlier and it was seen as an element of transformation of the economy. And all the corporates accepted it at that time. Like, we've got to transform our economy. We've got to bring the broader Black population in, but all they did was benefit 1,000, 2,000 elites. What would have been smarter would have been to give 30% of your business to your employees and empower them, and that never happened. So we've got these Black billionaires, they're all listed if you want to hear their names, who— Cyril Ramaphosa is one of them, who were handed billions of dollars on day one to just participate in these businesses. Have a look at him, what he owns. Cyril, our dreadful, dreadful president.

I just typed in black billionaires in South Africa. Patrice Motsepe.

And he's Cyril Ramaphosa's brother-in-law.

He is Cyril's brother-in-law.

And his mining company was our family mining company.

And they took it away or they bought it?

We sold it.

You sold it to him?

Yeah. And then in the mid-'90s, we moved out of mining.

And who is he? Is he somebody that's respected? Patrice Motsepe?

I like him. To his credit, he was the first African to join the Giving Pledge. Buffett's, you know, give away a third of your wealth when you die to charity. He was the first African to do it, to his credit. He's a nice, charming man, but he's Cyril's brother-in-law, and he's never stood up like most South African corporates have never stood up against the ANC.

Let's stay on Jacob Zuma a little bit. Okay. What is this story I hear about Jacob Zuma? Did he have an accusation of having AIDS and he raped someone? Yeah, and then he said, he says, uh, after I raped him, it was unprotected, but I showered, so I should be clean.

Yeah, there's a cartoonist.

Is this a joke or is this—

No, it's real. There's a cartoonist in South Africa Did cartoons of Jacob Zuma with a showerhead coming out of his head. These are the people running our country.

This guy right here? This one?

This guy? Yeah, there we go.

So he had— he raped someone and then he says, don't worry, she didn't— so he's got AIDS, he's got HIV.

Who knows? I mean, he seems pretty fit.

No, but what is the story about him having HIV? Is there truth to it or no?

That I don't know. That I don't know.

Can you zoom in and see what it says? During the trial, Zuma admitted to having unprotected sex with his accuser, whom he knew to be— oh, the accuser had HIV positive, correct? But memorably claimed that he took a shower afterwards to reduce the risk of contracting HIV.

This is the level of intellect that we have running the country.

And all Bill Clinton did, I mean, was this guy— Bill Clinton too.

Yeah, I know, we've got, we've got lunatics running the asylum. But here's the interesting thing. Until Donald J. Trump became president, no one said a thing. Europe and the UK, pathetic, soft diplomacy. Soft diplomacy does not work with these people. And you know, Obama and Biden, I mean, they'd never say boo to a Black African president. But Donald Trump looks at it and says, this country's going down the plug. And if I can give a terrifying analogy, South Africa is Germany in the early 1930s. The white minority are being boiled like frogs. There's an economic genocide taking place with black economic empowerment, with expropriation without compensation, with the destruction of the economy, the potential, potential, hasn't begun yet, disarming of the population.

Tell me more.

Donald J. Trump offered refugee status to white Afrikaner farmers, and then he expanded it, I think, in the last few days to mean any minorities in South Africa being persecuted. And the persecution is definitely in place economically. And it's beginning culturally. Our government have flown over here to try and tell Donald Trump there is no genocide. Let me talk about farm murders in South Africa. Our commercial farming population is 30,000 farmers. The American commercial farming population is 3 million. It is 3 times more dangerous being a farmer in South Africa than a policeman, and twice as dangerous being a policeman than an average citizen. Farm attacks are not only attack and then 30 to 40% are murders, but it's torture of the most horrific kind and rapes. Not just white farmers, but mainly white farmers. And the South African government police has done nothing to protect these farmers. Cyril Ramaphosa claims the problem doesn't exist, South Africa is a violent society. But how come so many farmers have been attacked, murdered, raped in South Africa? And if you extrapolate, if you take a pro rata number of South African farmers attacked and murdered and killed to the American population, over the last 20 years, 233,000 American farmers would have been murdered. And you don't think that's some form of genocide? It's horrific. So look at Germany in the 1930s. Look at what's happening in South Africa. No wonder so many people are leaving. No wonder Donald Trump has said they get refugee status.

Why do you think the reaction to the 58 refugees that was given, being white, why do you think the reaction has been the way that it's been with the media?

Because the left-wing media want to see brown faces from Sudan, you know, escaping camps, ducking border guards, but the persecution is much the same. If you're a white South African, you're having 30 years of anti-white racist laws being put in place. What future do you have? South African businesses are now being told who they can hire and who they can't fire. I had a senior politician 3 days ago say, "It is immoral that 98% of top executives are white." I went, "No, it's not 98%, it's 62%." 'Cause I had a Rob in the audience, I said, "Google it." He went, "62%." But they're already starting to say the racial breakdown of South Africa needs to equate to the corporate breakdown, to the everything else breakdown. 7% of the population are white. So we only have 7% of the corporates being white. It's racist, it's destructive, and our economy is falling apart.

7% of the population is white.

And it used to be 20%.

When was it 20%?

In the 1980s.

So in the '80s it was 20%. So you've lost two-thirds.

Well, Firstly, the white population is not growing because a million people have left in the last 20 years. A million. The two richest people in Los Angeles are South African, number one and number two. Elon Musk, Patrick Soon-Shong owns the Lakers. There are, I think, 22 dollar billionaires born in South Africa living in America and 35 internationally, and they're not living in South Africa. So there's been a mass exodus of people, and the Black population is obviously having more babies than the white population. And of the 60 million population, I'd say about 8 million are illegal immigrants.

Where from?

Zambia, Zimbabwe, Congo, Malawi. 8 million of 60 million.

60 million illegal.

We have no borders anymore.

So how well is the economy doing? Where— what is causing these other business owners that are still there to want to stay there?

A lot can't leave. So I was on a plane with a— flying over to DC yesterday with a South African, must have been 40 years old. And he said he'd left the country because he thought he'd sold his cosmetics business, but the deal never went through. So he's had to go back to South Africa, re-engage to try and keep building his business under terrible circumstances, or try and sell it, which he can't do because no one's buying anything. So a lot of South Africans can't leave. They're not wealthy enough, they don't have the opportunity, and they don't have another passport.

But the brain drain is happening. You're saying since the 1980s, the population, white population, went from 20% to 7%. A million have left. When I look at the current farms in South Africa, I saw a number: 62% are owned by the 7%.

Not true.

What's the percentage?

Okay, so these numbers have been thrown around by the left. Of the arable land in South Africa, if you take the total land area, it's higher than 50%. But the Western and Northern Cape is mostly desert. So you have massive landholdings. But if you look at arable land, 20% is owned by white farmers.

20% is owned by white farmers.

You have 7% of the population.

So the other 80% is owned by non-whites. Non-whites, whatever it could be.

Yeah, mostly black farmers. But the government, when they bought the land or it was transferred to the black owners, the government has not given most of them the title deeds. If that isn't communism in motion, subtle, evil, malevolent communism.

Give me your land, I'm going to give it to this black family, but I hang on to it. I don't even give it to them. I let them live there, but I control it.

I still— the government has the title deed.

Okay.

And nobody's raising that.

Nobody's talking about it nowadays more than ever. The brand you wear reflects and represents who you are. So for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat or a Valuetainment gear, you're telling the world, I'm optimistic, I'm excited about what's going to be happening. But you're a free thinker. You question things. You like debate. And by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with Valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New Future Looks Bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for 100 of these. If you watch the PBD Podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high-quality lighter, cutter, and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters. With the Valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs, we got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent with Valuetainment, with PBD Podcast, go to vtmersch.com. And by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift inside just for you. So again, go to vtmersch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright.

Can you go back to the history of it even prior to apartheid? Okay, go previous to that.

1652.

Okay, give me any history there. And, you know, others coming in, taking management resources.

When was Mayflower? 1620.

Okay.

Okay. I checked when I came in here. So Mayflower, 1620.

Okay.

The first settlers, Dutch settlers in the Cape, 1650.

Okay.

When they got to the Cape, there were no black tribes. None in the Western Cape all the way up to this place called the Fish River, 600 kilometers away. The black tribes had migrated down over 1,000 years from Eastern Africa into South Africa. So they're settlers too. If they call us settlers, they're settlers. And they met and there was peace, working together and fighting, the usual story. Fast forward, the British then arrive in 1820 and then the late 1800s, gold is discovered and everyone piles in. And then the British have their first— sorry, they have the Zulu Wars. Then we've been fighting all our career. Then they have the First Boer War, English-Afrikaner, and then the Second Boer War, English-Afrikaner. And in 1910, South Africa, which was made up of a whole lot of different republics and provinces, was formed into this Union of South Africa. So South Africa as a country is only 114 years old. It's new, but it's big. It's twice the size of France. It's a very big country. And the Western Cape has nothing in common with KwaZulu-Natal, has nothing in common with the north, with Pomelanga. There are 26 different languages. The white tribe is made up of the Afrikaners of Dutch and German origin, but they really are white Africans. And the Anglos, like myself, are sort of more English heritage. So there are two different white tribes. Then there's the Coloureds, who are a mix of white and black. The Indians, Indian South Africans. And then the Blacks. And the Black population of South Africa, I think they're 20-something tribes. Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho, Venda, Tswana, all in different areas. It's a patchwork of individual communities. And therein lies the solution. I'll get to it quickly. We have to decentralize. We have to create autonomous regions, autonomous areas based around culture and ethnicity, and take decision-making from the top and urgently push it down. That's my solution. We can speak to that later.

What is the—

So we then had the First World War.

Yeah.

Where South Africa fought with the British and allies. Second World War, where we fought with America and the UK. My father was South African Air Force, the Second World War. He's 99 this year.

You were saying that, that's unbelievable.

Sharp as a tack. That's unbelievable. He'll be watching this and saying, "Well done, Rob, you didn't swear." So let me— And then we get to 1948.

Yeah.

And in 1948, the Afrikaner National Party gets elected. And from 1948 to 1960, they begin the process of apartheid. And what apartheid, the word, stands for is separateness. You translate it directly, apartheid, separateness. And the intention was, to have people develop separately so that the black South Africans would have their areas, the whites theirs. But, you know, it did migrate into something that was patently unfair. You know, more money was spent on white kids than black kids. You know, the white people got the better areas there. Black people had to carry passes. Apartheid became dysfunctional and evil in its latter stages. And in 1985, no one knows this, F.W. de Klerk and the Afrikaners in power decided internally apartheid was unsustainable. And between then and 1994, they put a process in place to remove apartheid. And yeah, he died. He was a Nobel Prize winner. And he worked with Mandela to create a great constitution and a peaceful transition of power.

In your opinion today, Mandela, good guy or bad guy?

Good guy in a very bad party, 'cause the ANC always had as its original tenet a national democratic revolution. They were all trained by the Russians. They all believe in socialism or communism. Mandela managed to sit on top of that and say, "I see a better way forward." But the ANC always had its evil within it. Which is manifesting now.

Is it almost like they were waiting for Mandela to die and get out the way so they can do it the way they always wanted to do it?

Correct. People always go, "Where's the brain trust of the ANC?" I said, "Well, there's not much brain and there is no trust, but there's this fundamental Soviet-trained philosophy that is manifesting itself." And it's a very slow burn, like cultural Marxism in the West. You know, it took time, they captured our universities here. They captured the left, they captured CNN, MSNBC. They do it over time and slowly, but it's a policy and it's showing its face now in South Africa, but Donald Trump has noticed.

Yeah, so, you know, when I'm looking at South Africa and you're going through the history and you're looking at all this stuff and you have different papers that come up, so you'll read this one paper that says, well, you know, South Africa is a great place for resources. Natural resources. Go there, mine, make your money, great. But outside of that, for capitalism and commerce and building and ports and import and all that stuff, it's complicated. It's not built in the most best way.

In 1994 it was. We had some of the best ports, best airports, best railway system. We had more rail lines in South Africa than the rest of Africa put together. We were number 1 or number 2 gold producer in the world.

That's known.

All of them. We're now number 22nd. Wow. The ANC has chased away so much foreign direct investment. It's— I don't know how you can be that stupid, but they are.

And I think that's a very good measure to see how the administration is doing to attract people in. Because right now, if we look at FDI with US, what do you notice? $1.4 trillion.

And that was last week.

Then you got— yeah, exactly, $1 trillion. Then you got $600 billion from MBS from Saudi. You got Apple is saying half a trillion dollars. So all this, if all this money— of course Apple is here, but all these other countries are saying, I want to go and invest in the US. That is the biggest compliment to say, I want to do business here. The complete opposite is taking place in South Africa.

Everyone's pulling out. Shell just announced they're pulling out. Exxon's pulled out. And they find it just too hard. South Africa is overregulated. They've got racist laws. It's— I don't know how anyone actually keeps doing business in South Africa.

I want to ask you about the president, but before I do so, I want to give you some fun facts that I pulled up. So one, The only country in the world that has 3 capitals. Is that true? That's what I say. So Pretoria executive, Cape Town legislative, and Bloemfontein judicial.

Yeah.

Then you have— it has 11 languages. You said it's 26, but it says it's got 11 languages.

Okay. Okay. I think it's more than— yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Okay.

So that's the languages. How many languages South Africa have? Can you pull it up? How many languages does South Africa— it says 12. Okay, so 12.

12 official.

12 official.

Lots more unofficial. Oh, got it.

And recognizes at least 35 in total. Got it. Okay.

So my 26 is kind of—

You're there.

So maybe slang will be the 36th.

Bob, so we've got it wrong. Stop putting me under pressure.

So first, this is a crazy one, and I want you to speak on this one here. First, is it true that it's the first country to voluntarily dismantle nuclear weapons in the early '90s? Why and who agreed to that?

It was a discussion between the Afrikaner government and Mandela. You know, when in the '70s, when I was at school, Africa was turning hardcore, you know, colonies were leaving, but it was turning hardcore Soviet. You know, the Cubans and the Russians were in Angola, the threat was moving south. Rhodesia was the last bastion of kind of, you know, the Old World, and they fought on their own for a long time, and then they fell, they went, and South Africa was left. And our government said, we're up against it, we need nuclear weapons. In 1972, there was a power— a nuclear power plant built 40 minutes' drive from Cape Town, Koeberg Power Plant, in 1972, still fully operational till today. Yeah, I drove past it last week. Fully operational. South Africa was the first country to do a heart transplant. I mean, South Africa's done— it punches— has punched so far above its weight in history. If you look at the statesmen, the tech developments, the people it's produced.

The only country that's held the World Cup in cricket, rugby, and soccer.

We haven't had— we've held it in our country, though we haven't held the cup.

No, no, not the cup. Yeah, holding it in your country.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, in those 3 sports, I mean, you pretty much get 90% of the world.

South Africa used to be a world leader in a whole lot of areas, and that's not the case anymore.

Okay, you don't put that on Mandela, you put it on Zuma.

I put it on Zuma and Ramaphosa.

Ramaphosa, okay.

And the ANC itself.

Okay, so Ramaphosa was talking about Elon Musk the other day. I don't know if you've seen this clip or not. Have you seen it?

No.

Okay, Rob, can you pull up this clip? Here's Ramaphosa talking about—

Is it the Starlink one?

This is the one right here. Go ahead and play this clip, Rob. Go for it.

Having to do with Starlink. So I know about it and have even— yes, I know about it.

Do you like Elon Musk?

Let me say to you, I have had— Elon Musk is South African-born American now. I have had discussions with him and have said, Elon, you've become so successful and you are investing in a variety of countries. I want you to come home and invest here. So he and I are going to have a further discussion about a variety of things. Whatever one may think about him, He is a hugely successful businessperson, and having had those discussions with him, to advance the interests of South Africans, and he runs widespread businesses, and in many ways he's already invested in South Africa through his X online process, which which used to be Twitter. So he's already present in our lives as South Africans. So I will be taking further discussions about—

What's the likelihood of that happening?

Zero. Zero.

Zero.

Elon Musk and Donald J. Trump know that it is absolutely pointless investing in South Africa. All you're doing is rewarding the ANC for their socialist and racist policies. The 3 fundamental bases need to be tomorrow, need to be, we will not do trade with you, we will not help you, in fact we're gonna punish you unless you repeal black economic empowerment laws, expropriation without compensation, and you withdraw the Iran-funded ICJA case against Israel. Iran funded the ANC, to put that case against Israel.

Iran funded—

Iran funded the ANC. They sent money to the ANC, and part of that money allowed the ANC, on behalf of Iran, to file the ICJ genocide case against Israel.

And this is when— so the acronym IGCA refers to the International Court of Justice, South Africa against Israel, formally titled Application of the Convention of the Prevention and Punishment of Crime of Genocide in Gaza. Here's a breakdown of the key aspects of it. Allegation: South Africa accuses Israel of committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, violating the 1948 Genocide Convention. The application points to actions like killing Palestinians, causing serious harm, deliberately creating conditions to destroy the group, and preventing worse.

Why would South Africa, of all the countries in the world, out of the blue, accuse Israel of genocide through ICJ?

Are they the first one that did it?

They're the only ones that did it. And you know why they did it? Iran paid them to do it. Just type in Iran funding ICJ case. See?

Yes, it says Iran did fund, support, uh, ANC, African National Congress, during the anti-apartheid struggle, particularly in the '80s, although the support was relatively limited compared to other international backers like the Soviet Union, Cuba, and Scandinavian countries, but it did. After 1977 Islamic Revolution, Iran began supporting liberation movements that opposed Western-backed regimes. Of course, and the ANC fighting apartheid and white minority rule in South Africa fit this narrative. Interesting.

Do you know South Africa is one of the top 10 countries in the world that votes against America in all UN resolutions? South Africa pokes America in the eye, allies with Russia, China, and Iran, openly supports Hamas, files a case against Israel through the ICJ, creates racist and socialist laws at home to persecute white, Indian, and colored minorities. And for 20 years, the pathetic Europe and UK have said nothing. And America's never had a foreign policy in Africa until Donald J. Trump arrived in January this year. And he knows exactly what's going on, and he's had enough. He is not sending any more money to South Africa, and he's going to punish South Africa, hopefully individuals, not the country, for this anti-American and anti-Semitic and anti-white policies.

And how do you think he's going to react to it? Cyril, how do you think he's going to react to it?

He's a sock puppet. Cyril is a jellyfish with no spine. He's charming, he comes across well, and that's why he fools a lot of the big South African corporates. And I'm not going to name one of the big ones. He's taken in by Cyril, and he's, I think, flying to Washington today to be with Cyril to meet Donald Trump. Cyril, his intention is to explain to Donald Trump and the administration the reality of South Africa. But Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and the administration are no fools. They know exactly what's going on. So I am hoping Cyril Ramaphosa gets the Zelensky times 10 treatment. I'm hoping. But I think Marco Rubio is the one who's gonna do it. Why? Because I think Donald Trump wants to keep his position open to see how it goes. But Marco Rubio is gonna read the riot act to the delegation that's flown over. And so he should. America should say to South Africa, we are not gonna help in any way, in fact we're gonna punish you, unless you immediately do those 3 things that I mentioned. Remove EWC, expropriation without compensation, repeal black empowerment laws, get rid of them, and American companies should refuse to obey them and withdraw the case from the ICJ. You do those 3 things, we can talk. And I told them—

Likelihood of that happening? Because those are big, big asks.

But they— I mean, I think it's 50, 60%. If you go to a poly market and ask.

And if they don't?

I think America should kick them back. Should say, leave. Go. Go home. And then, I'm putting myself at risk here, by the way. And then America should, and they've already done it, Ronnie Jackson, Congressman Ronnie Jackson, has already put a bill that's going to Congress about punishing individual South Africans using Magnitsky, SDN. Just do Ronnie Jackson here. Now there he is. And Ronnie Jackson, South African bill.

Rob, can you type in Ronnie Jackson, South African bill?

There we go. There we go.

This was a month ago. South Africa has brazenly abandoned its relationship with the United States to align with China, Russia, Iran, and terrorist organizations. A betrayal that demands serious consequences. The legislation ensures we conduct a comprehensive review of the supposed ally while also holding accountable any corrupt officials. The era of governments undermining American interests without repercussions ends now. Interesting.

Okay, so that's moving forward.

Yeah.

So Ramaphosa knows this is underway. He's on the list. He needs to kiss the ring. He needs to give up on these racist and socialist policies and start to put South Africa first and not the ANC.

Who does he fear more, Trump or Zuma?

That's a very, very good question. It is a very good question. In May 2024, The first election in 30 years, the ANC got less than 50%. They've been ruling with impunity since then.

Who got— who—

They got 41%. They collapsed to 41%. They and the Democratic Alliance, which is the center party, the capitalist free market pro-West party, formed a Government of National Unity, GNU, but then they added a whole lot of other smaller parties. And that's our current government. Under the guise of the GNU, the ANC is still pushing forward its racist and socialist policies. So your question has hit the nail on the head. How do we take this forward without punishing South Africa, but by only punishing the people who are responsible for the 30 years of destruction? That's the key. This is a real finesse by America.

Yeah. So this is the challenge I see. Last night I'm watching Godfather II.

How many times?

Oh, I can't even tell you.

Me too.

So I'm watching Godfather II. You know what scene it is where Vito Corleone, his dad gets killed by the boss in Italy. Then Vito finds out who the son is, oldest son, kills the son. Then the mom decides to plead and go plead to him and go and say, please don't kill my youngest son. And she says, he's not that smart, he's not that this, let him work for you, he won't do anything, please forgive him, let him live his life, all this stuff. He's thinking about it for a couple minutes and he says, nope, I can't do that. Then she takes a knife out to try to kill him. And then they shoot her. She dies right in front of Vito Corleone. Vito runs off and they try to go get him with a shotgun. They don't. Eventually he comes to the States and obviously he becomes the Godfather, becomes Vito Corleone in the movie Godfather, right? And can you get vengeance out of him? I don't know. Can you get vengeance out of his heart to forget the family or anybody related to the family that killed the father, killed the mother, and killed his brother? Can you do that in South Africa? When you go and look at the story and you go all the way back and now, you know, the animosity, the level of animosity that's there, right? It's also similar to some parts of Middle East. I'm from Iran. I lived there 11 years. This is my question for you. How do you How do you manage the animosities while still moving forward? Go ahead and tell the guy, I know those guys killed your dad and your mom and they raped your sister, but guess what? You got to move on.

How do you—

South Africa. Yeah, another first. In 1994.

Yeah.

South Africa created the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, and the Truth and Reconciliation Committee was created that if you were— if you did something under apartheid, if you were a police officer that killed someone in prison, or you beat someone to death on a farm, you had one opportunity to tell the truth in court in front of the families and admit to what you did, and you would be forgiven. But you had to tell the truth and all the truth. And it was the only way to lift the bloodletting that had taken place and the horror and the anger. And in many cases, people reconciled and they hugged the families and they were forgiven.

Yes. And who came— is this what Mandela came up with?

Well, it was a combination of Mandela and de Klerk. It was a unity rainbow coalition government. In Rwanda in 1994, same year, funnily enough. Wow. For 3 months, The two tribes created by the Belgians, by the way, these are non-existing tribes, Hutus and Tutsis. Basically Hutus killed Tutsis, 10,000 people a day while the United Nations did nothing. President Paul Kagame, who's president today, a Rwandan, invaded his own country from Uganda, stopped the bloodshed, took over the control of the country, and he's still president today. He got everybody in the same way. Every village and every town got together and a murderer had to admit to the family that he murdered your brother and your sister and your cousin. And for a year, for a year, they had to wear a pink overall and do jobs like cleaning and building and things like that. One year, you as a killer who admitted your crimes would be forgiven. You spend a year in a pink.

Is that to allow the other family to see that there's a little bit of retaliation on a price being paid?

Right. And how do you prosecute 50% of a country? You're finished. You have to find a way to move on. South Africa did. Rwanda did. It's terrible. But still today, still today, there are people in South Africa that could say, you benefited under apartheid. You— there's still a lot of underlying— oh.

For sure. I'm looking at this right now. Testimonies: over 21,000 victims provided statements with approximately 2,000 hearings and public hearings. Amnesty applications: out of 7,111 applications, 849 were granted amnesty. Final report: the TRC released its comprehensive report in 1998 with supplemental volumes in '03 on what happened. That is big, very big.

I mean, to do that is extraordinary.

That is extraordinary. And I think you need something like that to get over, you know, when you have somebody like two brothers, you know, one of the brothers dates the other, the other's girlfriend, and they don't talk to each other for 5 years. They want to kill each other. What do you do as a father? You have to come in and try to find a way to bring them together. It's not easy to do, but this is times this betrayal is even higher than that to get it out. So now President Trump He's in the Middle East. He's doing what he's doing with UAE, Qatar, Saudi, meets with the president of Syria and Saudi and trying to tell Khamenei, hey, let's negotiate. Khamenei says death upon America. I will never trust you. And he's saying what he's saying. He is the second term, the way he's playing the second role. He's trying to be the peacemaker, has a 2-hour call with Putin and Ukraine, has these meetings that is having with everybody. You think this approach tomorrow is going to be a public one where the world's going to be watching? You think cameras are going to be on, or do you think it's going to be a private meeting?

No, public, for sure public.

And same way, try to put him in his place.

He's got to.

And Elon will be there as well because Elon's tied to South Africa.

Exactly.

Do you think Elon will be saying anything tomorrow, or it'll be him and Marco Rubio speaking most of the time?

Him and Marco.

You don't think Musk will say anything?

Not much.

Why do you think?

I don't think Musk believes South Africa stands a chance. A friend of mine asked him 3 months ago in a private moment, Elon, do you still believe in South Africa? Do you still think there's hope? And Elon kind of— he gets thoughtful, he's like thinking. He said 3 words: demographics don't lie. The voting population. Democracy is grinding forward in a glacial pace, but our economy won't survive. And with 60% youth unemployment, you'd expect civil unrest, wouldn't you, at some point? It's a tinderbox.

Or an exodus.

Well, the exodus has already happened.

Yeah, a million.

And I'm a lucky guy. I can be the last chopper out of Saigon. Talk about helicopter pilots. Of course, yeah. Where's Anderson Fox? I've been a helicopter pilot on a movie. Yeah, yeah. So I can be the last guy out, but most South Africans, you know, Black, white, colored, Indian, whatever.

You're not afraid of going back, living there for 2 to 3 years?

I'm never going to leave. You're never going to leave? My wife's from New Zealand, and New Zealand— have you watched Lord of the Rings?

Of course.

So you know the story. So the Lord— New Zealand is the Hobbits. They have no neighbors, they have no threats, they have no pollution, they have nothing. It's like, it's, it's a the most happy, sensible, boring country on the planet.

They got the All Blacks though.

They got the All Blacks.

I respect, respect.

Yeah. And they're the hobbits. We live in Mordor. We're on the edge of Mordor where we are. I mean, every day is anything can happen.

So I'm not worried about going back, living there for two.

So my wife said to me four years ago, my New Zealand wife, we'd only been back two years and she was reading something and she looked at me and she said, can I swear?

Sure.

She said, I fucking love this place.

Wow.

It's worth fighting for.

Get out of here.

And I said, Okay, then I will.

Why does she love the place?

South Africa, you gotta come. It is magical. It's got all the madness, all the craziest, stupidest, worst things on the planet, and it's got the most beautiful, magical— it's the most incredible country. I can't get it under my skin. And all the million South Africans that have left badmouth South Africa because it's the only way they can justify leaving. Everybody misses that country. It is just magical.

Did you hear about Cyril calling the people that left cowards?

No, no, he's the coward. How dare he?

Well, he called everybody that left a coward.

He is disgusting and a disgrace for doing that.

You didn't see this clip?

I did. It made me so angry.

Rob, can you pull up that clip where he's calling anybody that left the country a coward?

He's the coward because he does nothing about South African suffering. Go back to that meme. Go, that meme. Cowardice, parlor, parlor, corruption, economy, parlor, parlor. Cyril Ramaphosa was found with millions of dollars hidden in his sofa, and it's unaccounted for. I would not be surprised if that came from Iran. This, our president, corruption, poverty.

Yeah, he called everybody a coward. Rob, can you see if it's the clip I sent you? There's a clip of him calling South Africans who leave the country. I believe this is it right here. This is it. Can I see it?

At the NAMPO Agricultural—

You're a coward, and that's a real cowardly act.

You want to get me angry? This gets me angry. He's the coward.

Why is he the coward?

He doesn't solve any of the problems in South Africa that are easy to fix. He lets the farmers hang out to dry, get murdered, get raped, get tortured. He lets our economy fall apart. He lets 60% unemployment take place. He doesn't face up to what's going on and he doesn't deal with the issues. He's a coward. And if people are being persecuted or have no economic opportunity, how can you call them cowards for going to another country to try and improve their lives?

Okay, so are you— are you familiar with Thomas Sowell?

Yes.

Okay.

Extraordinary man. Extraordinary libertarian.

Libertarian. Yeah. He was good friends with Milton Friedman. That whole—

I'd love to meet him.

I'd love to meet him as well. Trust me, I'd love to meet him as well. He's somebody that's a brilliant mind. I think he's in his mid-90s and he's still sharp as hell. He said, talk about South Africa in one of his books. And he said, is South Africa a management problem or a geography problem? Can you pull up South Africa map?

Great question.

Is South Africa, does South Africa have a a geography problem or a management problem? Because zoom out a little bit so we can see where South Africa is. Keep zooming out, zooming out, zooming out, zoom out, zoom out. Okay, obviously got nothing south.

You know, airplanes fly down and then they turn around and fly back. It's like New Zealand. Yeah.

So I mean, that location right there is just looking at that, you're a long ways from everybody.

Living on a cul-de-sac, which in a way could be good.

That's my home.

Yeah, I understand that. But what do you think the problem is? You think Thomas Sowell is right? Because Thomas Sowell is saying that, you know, you may have a location problem, you may have a geography problem. What do you think?

Look, it's fixable. This economy, I could— give me 100 days as a benevolent dictator, I can turn this country around.

As a benevolent dictator?

Well, you've got to do it because you've got to make some tough decisions.

What would be the tough decisions you'd make?

I'd privatize all the state-owned enterprises. Okay? Sell them off. Because they are just a feeding trough for corruption. I would deregulate. I'd bring in a doge as quickly as possible. We have 32 ministers in the cabinet. 32! Norway has 18. Argentina has 9. We have a ministry for women. What does that person do? It's ridiculous. And all the ministers have a deputy minister. There are 34 deputy ministers. So we have 76 ministers that all have blue light brigade, security, flying business in first class. The waste is— we have 1.4 million state employees. The waste is off the charts. It's fixable. You just cut the cost, hive off divisions like any turnaround situation in a business that you've had to deal with. You know, go to the debt holders and say, "You're not paying interest for 3 years." Go to the equity holders and say, "You got 5 cents on the dollar, pal. Take it or leave it." You cut out management, you cut costs, you hive off divisions that aren't working. You can only do that if you're a benevolent dictator, and you do it quickly. You close the borders, you kick out illegal foreigners. You do what Trump's done, but we're in a much more tragic situation. Do you have any thoughts on running?

Do you have any plans of doing politics?

No.

No plans of running?

I'm 65 this year.

The president's 79 years old. The previous guy, BNP Forum's 82 years old.

Patrick, don't do this to me.

No, but do you have any interest? Like, if the opportunity arose, would you entertain it?

No. Here's the problem. Do you have adult ADHD?

As an individual? I have a lot of issues.

I have a lot of issues too.

Maybe one of them.

Yes. One of them is I can't sit still for half an hour. In a meeting with people who haven't done their homework, or I know what they're going to say and I finish their sentences. Can you imagine being in a cabinet with half of the people are stupid, haven't done their homework, some still believe in communism?

What do you think Trump is doing?

Yeah, but he's got very good people around him. I mean, look at Marco Rubio.

You can't find good people? You're saying South Africa, this magical place, doesn't have good people?

No, it has. So let's find them. I know, but I'd have to replace the whole cabinet. You'd have to give me complete power to get it.

What did Trump do? He did it as well.

I know, but he can't. We can't. We'd have to change the system. No, the answer is no. I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

Don't forget what Katie said to you.

She doesn't want me in politics.

Katie said, I love this place.

True.

All right, so maybe do it for her. Hey, for Katie. Come on, Katie.

So does it have a geography problem? It does.

If you keep going south, you're screwed.

Well, I went to the Antarctic for dinner in December.

Are you being sarcastic?

No, we flew down.

What was it like?

Unbelievable. 6-hour flight from Cape Town.

Was everything you ate frozen? Like, is it just frozen food?

No, they had a 6-star meal for us. We slept in cabins, very comfortable, and had—

Do you recommend it?

I recommend it.

Really?

One night?

Yeah.

6-hour flight.

Were you swimming outside in the pool?

No, no.

Were you tanning, like laying out, getting some sun?

But it was sun the whole, you know, sun 24 hours. Yeah.

How long did you guys stay?

We flew in midday and flew out the next morning.

How bad was turbulence?

None.

Seriously?

And we landed what's called deep field, so we didn't land on the edge with all the penguins. We went deep field.

How many people live there?

There are— I can give you the stats—

like 4,500?

No, the American base alone, which is McMurdo, which you get to from Australia, New Zealand, that has about 4,000 people, 20 12 months a year. That's the biggest base in the Antarctic. I think 12 countries, you can check the stats, Rob. Here we go, McMurdo. I think that 12 countries are part of the Antarctic—

1,500 residents.

Association.

The station is the largest community in Antarctica capable of supporting up to 1,500 residents.

So I'm getting some of my stats right. But there are 3 places to visit Antarctica. The one is from McMurdo, which is very difficult to get to. The other's from Cape Town, and I think there are 500 visitors a year. And then the other one's from South America, and I think there are 250,000 visitors that go on cruise ships. So we went deep field. It was unbelievable. But it's like a white desert. Everywhere you look, there are no features. It's just white.

[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] A lot of people have been interested in that market.

24 hours was about right.

Okay, yeah, so that's what I figured you were going to say. 24 hours, about right.

Uh, did your, your family, did you guys, uh, I took our kids, little kids, 10 and 13 years old.

What did they say?

They said, are we the first 10 and 13-year-olds ever to be there? We found out some kids had actually been before them, been born there.

Was it freezing cold?

No. Okay, all right.

Uh, Growing up, uh, South Africa, you hear things about Errol Musk and mines and all that stuff. Was he famous? Was, uh, did your family have a relationship with him or no?

No, but Elon Musk's dad, Errol Musk, worked at our mining business.

Get out of here!

I only found that out 4 months ago when I met Errol Musk. He said, I worked for your father's mining business.

Yeah, but you didn't know him. You just—

I only met him 4 months ago.

Got it.

Errol, his dad.

What was that like?

How old was he?

What was that like?

Living, growing up in South Africa?

No, what was he like?

Errol's— he's got a crazy angle to him. He'll say stuff you and I would never dare to say. Never dare to say. He really tells it like it is. He's a bit of a loose cannon when it comes to opinions.

Yeah, he's, you know—

Well, he's a nice guy. He's a fun guy. He's not stupid. He's a smart guy, but he's— He'll shoot from the hip. Yeah.

Well, I mean, maybe the trolling gene comes from Pops because Musk knows how to troll like no other.

It's amazing how he thinks, you know.

Trump, Elon, or Errol?

Well, Trump weaves. Yeah, he'll start here. Yeah. And then he'll go completely off-piste and I'll go, oh no, he's got to answer the question, please. And he winds his way back and answers the question. Elon goes deep thinking.

He's gifted. Yeah, he's gifted. So I got a couple other questions for you before we wrap up here. So what could you say about— is this the one that we have? There he is. Yeah, he's the one. But what can you say about this? Rob, can you play this clip? So the EFF leader in South Africa.

Let's talk about that.

Yeah, can you tell me a little bit more about him? So here's a clip, Rob, if you can play this. So before we play it, what can you tell us about him?

Julius Malema is a dangerous, very dangerous populist. I hope you're gonna show the clip where he has 100,000 people in a stadium jumping up and down saying, "Kill the Boer," and, "We need to cut the throat of whiteness." These are the things he is saying publicly.

Here we go.

Allies.

What's he saying?

Shoot to kill. Shoot to kill.

Kill the poor.

Kill the poor. Kill the farmer.

Kill the poor. The farmer.

Nice country. And you think white people aren't feeling persecuted? When a man like this with 100,000 people in a stadium says, "Kill the Boer, one farmer, one bullet, we must slit, we will slit the throat of whiteness, not yet." He says these things publicly.

He's got 4.4 million followers on Twitter.

And he was taken to the hate speech court and it was turned down. Turned down. So that's EFF, the Economic Freedom Fighters. Nothing about economic or freedom in that lot. But the next party is Jacob Zuma's party called MK, Umkhonte we Sizwe, the Spear of the Nation.

I want to see this clip here. I don't know what's going to happen in the future. I'm saying to you, we have not called for the killing of white people, at least for now.

I can't guarantee the future. Yeah, but I mean, you'd understand somebody watching that, especially as it gets shared on Twitter. They freak out.

It sounds like a genocidal—

Ah, crybabies. Crybabies. I'm not calling for the slaughter of white people, at least for now.

I can't give you a guarantee of the future, especially when things are going the way they are.

Subtext.

Especially if things are going the way they are, there will be a revolution in this country, I can tell you now. I don't know what's going to happen. How influential is he?

He will never get more than 10% of the vote because the vast majority of South Africans, 88% of South Africans, are Christians, are conservative, are very move slowly, are deserting the ANC, but it's taking time because this was the liberation group, but they're moving. Economies, the voters are not stupid. They know he's dangerous. They know he's a threat to the economy. They don't want him in, but he's still got up to 10% of the vote.

10% is a lot.

A lot.

I mean, Bobby Kennedy only had 7%, you know, 7.2%. I don't know what the number was, but 10% is a big—

and listen to what he's saying.

Yeah, not for now. I don't know in the future, but I can promise you for now.

But have a quick look at this political party.

Yeah.

MK, just put in MK and Zuma. They've got 15%, and this is Zuma, who destroyed the country, and now he wants to be president again, these guys. They're much more of a threat. This is much more of a threat to, and you asked me a question, is Cyril brave enough to accept the terms, the three terms that Trump should ask of him? The answer is, this is what he fears. And our new GNU coalition party that was pulled together by the ANC, Democratic Alliance, and the others has about 60% of the vote. Their main priority is to keep Zuma out, and it seems to be their only priority because they're not talking about economic growth, safety and security, service delivery. They are trying to keep him out.

How is Zuma's relationship with Malema?

They hate each other.

Oh, they do?

Fortunately.

How is Zuma's relationship with Cyril?

They hate each other.

How is Cyril's relationship with Malema?

They hate each other.

So all three hate each other?

Yes, thank goodness.

Have they ever been in the same room together?

Oh yeah. Malema was head of the ANC Youth League. Zuma was head of the ANC. They've each got their own political parties.

They left, so they became different factions.

Different factions.

New or joined a different group?

No, Julius Malema left 15 years ago and set up the EFF. Jacob Zuma stepped down as president and then about a year and a half ago founded MK and got 15% of the country. He's the real threat, Zuma, but he's 80-something and he can't live forever. He can't live forever.

He's 80-something. I'm watching him. So Trevor Noah, not a fan of Zuma. And he's gone after him. And what— yeah, I'm looking at a bunch of his clips here.

So Jacob Zuma allowed everybody else to steal under his watch.

Yeah.

This time around, if he gets into power, he will take the expropriation without compensation law and he will implement it on day one. He's made it very clear. And so Cyril Ramaphosa is scared of Zuma and scared of Malema, but is he scared enough to go back to his party and say, we need to change, we need to be more pro-West, we need to not be anti-Semitic, not be anti-American, we need to cut costs, we need to focus on free markets. Does he have that courage? I don't think he does.

Well, we're about to find out on what's going to happen with that. And in South Africa, who is the most influential person right now that's nonpolitical? Is that the person that's going to be joining him? The business owner you were talking about?

No.

CEO, one of the head of companies? No.

He says nothing. Very few South African corporates stand up and say anything. I am the only South African businessman. You can even type in prominent South African businessmen standing against the ANC and no one will come up. I'm the only guy.

Bob van Dril.

I've had more death threats than any non-politician in South Africa.

Bob van Dril, does he say anything?

Who's he?

He's the guy that runs NASPERS. Do you know Alan?

He's a Dutchman, he lives in Amsterdam, he's not even South African.

Do you know Alan Pollinger?

He did. Alan Pollinger did. Michelle Leroux did. Gareth Ackerman and Neil Froneman. 4 names. I can't even get to a 5th.

Who have said things?

Who've stood up and talked. Alan Pollinger's resigned.

How influential is Alan Pollinger?

Great guy, but not anymore. He was running a bank.

Who is the biggest in— who are the most biggest influencers in South Africa that still live there? Right here.

That's it. I'm here. There's a man called Ernst Roets who appeared on Tucker's show and Ben Shapiro's show. He's an Afrikaner. There are people from civic society, there are people from media, there are people from law, journalists who have been very, very, very brave. But when it comes to the business community, the business community are the cowards, colluders, or captured. 3 C's.

Cowards, colluders, or captured.

Or they've been captured by the state.

You feel safe in South Africa having the positions that you got?

Yes, I do. Or maybe it's a form of, you know, my father said to me when I began accidentally, I made a speech went viral. And I was thrown into this maelstrom of political activism or capitalist activism. And I would have given up early on. I got attacked, I got cut off, people wouldn't take my calls, I was threatened. If my wife and father hadn't said the same thing to me, I would have given up. And they said, my father said, "Rob, I've never been more proud of you for doing and saying what other people can't afford to do and say." And you know, there's a poem called The Man in the Glass. And it's about you can fool everyone but the man in the glass, yourself. And everything in life for me has come, I felt, easy. Born wealthy, had every opportunity, went to Harvard Business School, got the jobs I wanted, worked for Rupert Murdoch. You know, just things came. I mean, I made an effort, but they came easy. This is the first time in my life I'm doing something I don't need to do. At great financial cost, at great personal risk, where my wife and kids are worried, are scared, my friends are scared, but I feel I'm doing something because I have a calling and a duty on behalf of other South Africans. And I do love my country.

I respect it. You said your father's 95, 99?

99.

Yeah. When does he turn 100?

August next year, 2026.

He turns 100 next year.

Got it. Do you know, he fought the last 14 months of the Second World War, South African Air Force pilot, and somebody said, you must be one of the last remaining South African Air Force pilots from the Second World War. Does he still have his logbook? I called him, I said, Dad, do you still have your logbook? He said, I have all 3 of my logbooks. So you can imagine how many hours he's flown.

Where is his pride at with the country?

He loves South Africa. He'd never have left. He's— he's concerned. You know, my two older sons, one lives in America, one lives in London. My sister lives in North Carolina. My brother and sister live in London. Everybody, every South African family's next generation or next two generations have left. Are leaving. Everybody's gone. If we could fix South Africa—

it's tough to bring people back though—

if I could give me my 100 days as a benevolent dictator, foreign direct investment would return and there'd be a reverse diaspora of 100,000 to 200,000 extraordinary young South Africans who would take South Africa to 5% growth.

So you are running? You just said it now 3, 4, 5 times, you are running. Listen, I remember when Vivek came here first time and he's speaking, I'm like This guy's speaking like he's about to run for office. A month later, I'm now running for office. I'm like, oh shit, okay, well, I had it right. I got a good feeling on him. But the Beers, selfishly, I did a video one time on the Beers Diamond. What can you say about them? There's a lot of stuff you hear about, you know, how they're the ones that made it, you know, diamonds are not really as big as they're supposed to do. They control 80 to 85% of the diamond distribution. And it was concerned that they had a monopoly. What do you guys in South Africa think about them?

So personally, I'm a minimalist, okay? I only wear blue and white. I don't own any watches anymore.

Really?

No vases, no jewelry. I don't collect anything. When I proposed to my wife, I was in a German forest hunting wild boar in a tree with snow. She was next to me, covered up, pointing out the boar, and I said, will you marry me?

Get out.

Loaded rifle. She goes, I thought you'd never ask. I'll marry you. "but if you ever give me a diamond ring, engagement ring, anything, I'll sell them on eBay." And I said, "Well, why would you do that?" She said, "Why should De Beers tell me this shiny stone's worth anything? Why should Hallmark cards tell me tomorrow's Mother's Day? It's marketing." And from that day on, she minimalized me. I can put my life into 4 suitcases. I only wear blue and white. Have a look at all my videos. I'm a minimalist. It's liberating.

How long have you been a minimalist?

Since 2010. Got rid of everything.

And that's when you guys started dating?

No, we've been dating for 1,000 years.

You've been dating for 1,000 years?

She's my soulmate. It's the rarest thing in the world.

1,000 years is a long time. You look pretty good as a 1,000-year-old man.

Yeah, it's real hair. So that's— how did we get onto minimalism?

No, you said diamonds when she said, if you ever give me a diamond, I'm going to sell it on eBay.

De Beers, a genius monopoly and a complete farce. What is a diamond? It's a shiny stone. It's worthless.

So, it's from South Africa and you think it's a fraud what they did to diamonds?

Well, it's genius. It's not a fraud. It's complete genius to make a—

They hang on to it so it makes it seem like it's worth more.

A shiny stone. Are we insane as humans? We prize a shiny stone. It's insane. I'd rather have Bitcoin.

Rather have Bitcoin.

And lots of it.

Really?

So you can also make diamonds in labs now. De Beers is sitting on a mountain of unsold diamonds. It's the best short in the world.

It's the best short in the world.

Oh, God. Oh, in addition to Cadbury's, McDonald's, because of Ozempic, everyone's going to be slim. Everyone's going to be slim. So why would you ever buy Cadbury's, Roundtree's, Burger King? And why would you ever buy diamonds? Because they can be made in factories. Get out of those. And this is financial advice. This is—

that's the quote, Rob. Short diamonds.

Yeah, short. Yeah, short all of those things. I mean, I'm a minimalist.

What do you drive?

So you would ask me that, wouldn't you? I drive an FJ Cruiser, Toyota FJ Cruiser, completely pimped. I've got the big tires, I got a wrap, I've got everything. It's the only kind of possession I enjoy.

You say you're a minimalist. Maybe, maybe you've got to have a car. Do you, don't you have a $30 million property like in Dubai or something, like a vacation property or no?

Okay, so we like 3 things. You didn't ask me, so here it goes, ready? We like, Katie and I like 3 things. Big houses, lots of money in the bank, and great experiences.

Cool, I respect that.

We like memories for the rocking chair. So any fun, crazy thing we do.

It's like, I'm not cheap when it comes down to experiences.

That's the one thing. Wouldn't you rather go walk hiking with the gorillas or go to Antarctica for dinner? It's much more fun.

Hiking with gorillas?

Some shiny damn watch.

Yeah, well, listen, I think this podcast is going to put De Beers out of business. Walking with gorillas. We're going to have millions of people shorting diamonds. It's begun.

The Big Short. Come on, baby. The Big Short. It ain't drill, baby, drill.

Did you watch the movie The Big Short?

What a great movie. I love it.

You know who's the one guy I've been wanting to interview and he never does interviews?

Who?

Michael. Michael Burry doesn't do interviews. Do you know him?

No, I would love to interview him too.

Yeah, well, listen, Michael Burry—

Patrick, can I thank you for everything you're doing?

Oh no, thank you.

I mean, you've got a hell of a business here. I love the fact you're sitting on an airport and I've always wanted to meet you and here I've met you in your own show. What a treat.

Yeah, this has been a fascinating conversation and the audience needs to know this. You showed up an hour before, fully prepared. You entertained Adam or Adam entertained you.

Can I do a shout out for Soss? Yeah. And I'm going to say something.

We're never going to hear the end of it. He's going to use this to pick up girls.

No, it's better than that.

Go ahead. Let's hear this.

I did a video of me and Soss to Katie saying, look who I'm with. I'm going to meet Patrick and now meet Soss. You know the message sent back? He hasn't heard this. He's hot. Stop it, Kate.

She said he's hot.

He's hot. I'm keeping those to myself.

Tell Kate.

Tell Kate.

Adam is the biggest MAGA guy you'll meet in your life. Okay, this guy went from telling me 4 years ago I would never vote for Trump to now saying, you know, he should go be his campaign manager.

He should be his, what do you call it, Rob, the press secretary? Is that what it is?

Like, Adam should be doing that. He would do a very good job. And anyways, brother, this has been great. Appreciate you for coming out. I really enjoy talking to you. I look forward to it.

Come visit me in South Africa.

When you run for office, I will definitely do part 2 when you do that. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

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