Hydrogen's Healing Powers: Reducing Inflammation with Dr. Paul Barattiero and Dr. Robert Whitfield

Welcome, Everybody. I have Dr. Baratero here. He's lectured across the world over the last 22 years. In 2009, he began lecturing on the benefits of hydrogen gas in water. He has been featured on television in the U.S. germany, Switzerland. He has co authored books, been in documentaries, radio shows, health summits, and many podcasts. He educates on how molecular hydrogen reduces oxidative stress and chronic inflammation, which is the leading cause of disease. He shares how hydrogen can positively affect brain function, energy, sleep, pain, as well as many other benefits. He developed the Echo water system in 2010. Welcome, Dr. Baratero.

Thank you so much. Pleasure.

Well, we deal with a lot of chronic inflammation and in full disclosure, I met Dr. Paul back in September of 22 at a Mindchart collaborative meeting that's hosted by JJ Virginia and listened to his lecture, was very, very impressed with both his presentation of the scientific literature and his development of this system. So, Dr. Paul, maybe let's. Everybody has an origin story. Probably be great to share your origin story so people understand it.

Absolutely. So it all started with my wife, the love of my life. And I was, you know, we've been married 30 years now, but she was sick for the first 10 years of our marriage. And I was 31 years old, married for 10 years, and thought, oh, my gosh, this is not, you know, the way I want it to go. I want to have my wife as long as I can. And so she had anemia, she had thyroid issues, gynecological issues, all kinds of stuff. And so in the process of trying to find ways to help her, I discovered the water. And once we helped her with the water, then I was like, oh, my gosh, there's got to be tons of other people that are going through this and husbands that don't know what to do and what have you. And so that created Echo. And here we are, all these years later, blessing the lives of millions of people.

Well, I think, you know, there's nothing more difficult than having a loved one or a family member go through a difficult health journey. This past year, I lost my sister to recurrent breast cancer. And anything, you know, obviously we can do to reduce inflammation so that our bodies, like, can better manage and deal with, unfortunately, everything that goes on in the world today. So maybe probably touch on that and how water quality has certainly in your lifetime, in my lifetime, diminished drastically.

Well, and I would say all water quality parameters, tests, laws are 65 plus years old. And so when you talk about water quality, 65 years ago, we didn't have anywhere near as many of the chemicals, anywhere near the number of pollutants in the water that are coming into the water. And so it doesn't matter anymore where you're getting water from. Even for example, there are people that believe they have a pristine well. Right. Like this water is coming from the earth, it should be clean. And people need to understand that anyone spraying pesticides within a 300 mile radius of their well, you're going to get pesticides into that well. So gone are the days where you can say, oh, I can just get this water from the ground and not have any issues. So we really have to filter out contaminants from any water source that we get it from, especially municipalities, because whatever they are not removing, your body becomes the filter. And that's scary to think about. When you look at all the drugs, prescribed medications, and people are like, what are you talking about? And I say anything that your body is not using completely, you are peeing or pooping out into the water. When it goes to the municipality, if they don't remove that particular drug or contaminant or what have you, it's in the water supply. And so probably the number one is blood pressure medication. And so if I don't have a blood pressure problem, I don't, even if it's in small amounts, I don't want blood pressure medication in my body. So you have to, as a very basic thing in life now is filter water that's coming to your home. And so that would be the first water 101 is remove the contaminants so that your body doesn't have to become the filter.

And is there a specific like micron that you're referring to or how dense does the filter need to be? Or what is a, like a baseline recommendation you could give the audience so they, you know, if they're just ignorant because everybody sort of filtered water like. Right, like filtered air. There's going to be very different levels of filtering.

Yes. So carbon is probably what most people know. And carbon comes from coconut husks or bone or something that they have burned to a level that you have carbon. And even carbon comes in different formats. You have what's called granular, you have different types, you have activated carbon, you have catalytic carbon, you have bone char carbon, you have all kinds of different carbons. So I got this question so often that I had to create a filter that would appropriately remove contaminants. And the reason I did is because there is so much misinformation from companies that make Filters that really are not doing a whole lot, but they're selling them for a lot of money. And they might have carbon, but they don't have much else. And so carbon does a great job of getting rid of organic contaminants. But when they're inorganic, like pesticides, heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, things like this, you need KDF55 or KDF85 for example, which is a very high end media that's made of copper and zinc that's going to remove heavy metals, pesticides, pharmaceuticals, things like that. But just having that in a filter, you have to find out how many grams are in the filter. Is the format going to be effective or not? Because if you just take some granular KDF55 and put it into a filter that's moving four or eight gallons a minute through it, because it's a whole house filter, for example, if you have 100 grams or very small amount, it's not going to do much. It's just for marketing purposes. And that's what I found in most of the water filtration systems for whole home is companies want marketability, but they don't really put enough of a certain media to last more than a couple of weeks in the real life scenario of having a filter. So for example, we don't use granular carbon in a whole house system. We've taken KDF55 and KDF85 and we've put it into a reticulated foam so that it forces water to go through it. So you have contact surface time instead of having granular KDF material where you would have tunneling or water will make little tunnels through things and then you have very little contact surface time. And so also we don't use activated carbon in a whole house filter. We use catalytic carbon, which is far more powerful for fluoride and other things. So for whole home systems you engineer it a certain way. For drinking water I prefer reverse osmosis because you go down, as you mentioned, to a.0001 micron. And so you really are removing the plastics, you're removing the forever chemicals, you're removing all of these things out of water that are tiny, tiny particle size, like pharmaceuticals and things like that. And so it takes a lot of understanding, more than most individuals really want to invest time wise. But I did develop a whole house system and it's like half the price of most whole home systems on the market.

Yeah, I think your comment about the foam is poignant because I've had to replace our home filtration system Because I live in Austin, Texas, and there's a significant amount of. We'll just call the water. It's a little challenging.

Yeah.

So it can definitely, in a short period of time, clog up a system. Yeah, definitely can. The benefits, obviously, you know, when I speak to patients about this, and I think we talked about it just a little bit, is we talk a lot about, you know, oxidative stress and cellular stress and inflammation and acute inflammation and chronic inflammation and how these things, from my perspective, it's a. Can be very complicated. So as we spoke about earlier, I take care of a lot of patients with breast implant problems who have chronic inflammation. And chronic inflammation is very challenging for patients. Like you had experience with your wife, and anybody who's had a complicated medical problem has dealt with inflammation and how challenging it can be. We talk about increasing your air quality, fluid quality, and food quality ad nauseam at my clinic, and really leveraging those three pillars, if you will, to get healthier before you ever undergo a procedure. And then in our office, I, you know, it's still beyond me. I've talked about this probably just like you have not to drink out of plastic bottles to avoid phthalates. But I still get people because I have a lot of travel patients who travel in for surgery, and it's a challenge. So working to get them out of that whole mindset, if you will, like, plastics are not good products. They have phthalates in them. And. And you have a unique product that you can travel with, and size wise, it's very good and doesn't have phthalates in it. You could speak about your portable echo device for hydrogen water.

Yeah. So. Right, hold on right there. There you go. Yep, that's the unit, and it's called the Echo Go. Plus, when you need to put water in it that is pure or at least filtered, you cannot use tap water. We don't want chlorine in here. And once you push the button, you can see all the gas. See the hydrogen coming in there?

Yep.

Yeah. So this gives you 10 ounces is the capacity. And it's designed to be on the go. It's really three purposes, which are if you're traveling away from home and you have an echo machine that you get your water out of all the time, it's good to have a travel device, go out of country, go to the gym, whatever. But also for those that are skeptical and those that don't know how hydrogen water can help them with their issue, it's an excellent place to start, because the cost is low and they can get this bottle. Now, what's happened recently is, you know, Gary Brucka, Joe Rogan, Dana White, people like this that have very high influence are talking about only this bottle, for example. And now all kinds of companies from China have created bottles that look very similar to ours, and they're kind of flooding the market with them at like a fifth of the price of ours. And unfortunately, people are getting suckered into buying those because they're not hydrogen bottles. They're electrolysis bottles. So you see bubbles, and people assume, if I see bubbles, that's hydrogen. Well, it's not hydrogen, it's chlorine, it's oxygen. It's all kinds of things. And very, very low amounts of hydrogen. So people are now on our website, go, don't get suckered. I got suckered. I bought a bottle and it didn't help me. And then I bought Echo and I much better. So unfortunately, like, these companies will take my videos, which is crazy to think, because obviously I, I developed the Echo brand, and they would take my videos where I've been interviewed, and then they would edit the videos. So it makes it look like it's their bottle that I'm promoting or Gary Bruck is promoting. And so it's so sketchy, but it's because we sell, you know, 20 some thousand bottles a month, and so everyone else wants to get as much as they can. But if those bottles work, I wouldn't feel so bad about it. But they're not. They're not. They. We've tested them, and they have such small amounts of hydrogen. It's unfortunate. And then those bottles create chlorine, and it's just crazy stuff, but that's unfortunate.

Aren't they violating your ip?

Yeah, we are going. Our attorneys and Gary Brecke's attorneys are going after five. We're going after five companies a day for a while. And we still have companies that we're about to go after because they just continue to do this. We have people on YouTube that have videos saying that it's a scam and they're promoting bottles that are $50. And of course, people don't know any different, but we can't even manufacture this bottle and get it here for $50 even in China. Right. Because the, the proton exchange membrane that we make that actually produces hydrogen is cost more than that to produce. What they're selling is a standard electrolysis product that cost you around 10 or $12 to get. So, yes, they can sell them for $50 and make a Margin, but they're not hydrogen. They're making chlorine, oxygen, brown's gas. They're not really making hydrogen. So I have to do some videos this week. Further understand, don't get suckered into buying these junk bottles on the market. And even people think they're buying a bottle that Gary Brecke endorses, for example, because they chop up his videos and podcasts that we did. But Gary has only ever endorsed the Echo branded bottles. He's never endorsed anything else. So it gets crazy out there.

Our clinic has only used an endorsed your product. We haven't ever used another or.

Yeah, so kind of crazy.

I've personally given patients product and you know, we have the large tabletop device in my office, another tabletop device at the surgery center that we utilize just so that our patients and the teams at those clinic spaces or surgery centers have that quality. So question about, you know, whether hydrogen product or filtration product. So. Sure, sure, that's, that's classic though. I'm very sorry to hear that.

But it's not, well, you know, you're shocked. You're all of a sudden, you're like, oh my gosh, we are selling 25 times the number of bottles per month. Like literally before Joe Rogan and Gary Brecket talked about it, we were selling one to 2,000 bottles a month. And then we went to selling 25,000amonth. And so there was a couple months that we, there was a two week wait time just because we were flying them in 5, 10, 15,000 at a time. And finally we caught up. By January of this year, February of this year, we were fine. But it took us a little bit to catch up because all of a sudden we went from a thousand 2,000 stocking level to 25, 30,000 stocking level and higher. So it's been a challenge. But I have to say that I never thought that people would take our videos that we're doing and try to make it look like we were talking about their bottle. It's, it was clever marketing from other people, but you know, dishonest but clever, that's for sure.

Well, I mean, given the ability of AI to do things, it's really not surprising that that's happening. Right. It's unfortunate, but this is, you're going to get more of this.

For sure. For sure.

Well, I always have this question asked me, so we'll, we'll have a chat about it. So in terms of, you know, activities of daily living and you know, how much you consume at your House and you go to the gym. And I'm always in this kind of mindset of hydration is super important, obviously.

Yeah.

For my patients postoperatively, I actually have them use filtered water or hydrogen water when. Because everybody's access is going to be different, to be honest. So at home, we'll just say I asked them to not just drink water, that is water alone. I have them add, you know, in order of importance, you know, electrolytes, aminos and protein. Because in reality, I'm trying to increase the oncotic pressure in the system so that the swelling goes down in the tissues and work. It's a very simple but complex thing for everybody to really.

Yeah.

Understand. But that's how you get fluid out of tissues fast. And then we static massage and we have hyperbaric oxygen and red light therapy in the office. All sorts of modalities to enhance recovery. These are all in my book about my process. Sharp, but maybe speak to. All right. In a given day, I expect you all to drink this much. And that's good in terms of volume.

Yeah. Well, I'll answer that from two different ways. There's an amount of water that you should drink daily for normal hydration or appropriate hydration. So for proper hydration, half your body weight in ounces. So if you weigh 100 pounds, 50 ounces of water per day. If you weigh 200 pounds, then 100 ounces of water per day, that's just for hydration. And what people don't understand is because there's water and soda, that doesn't count, you have to understand it's water going into your system. Yes, you get water through sodas and whatever, but your body is not assimilating ounce per ounce the same as if you just drink water.

Right.

There's three things that people need to understand. If your body and your pancreatic system is under load or you're having an issue from an inflammation in your liver, kidney, whatever, when you drink water that has contaminants in it, your body will actually reject that water and it will kick it out because it doesn't have the energy to go through and process the chemicals that are in it. So there's a big difference. If you're drinking filtered water or purified water into your body and you're drinking the right amount of water, you'll actually get hydrated. And why that's important is because high water is used to pump up your joints. It's used for managing hot and cold, your body temperature, breath, you lose water, moisture vapor, out of your lungs because you're taking contaminants out. And if you're dehydrated, you're not going to be able to do that. So you're going to have lung issues. But there are so many, your energy level, you know, and then you think about blood. 93% of blood is water. When you start looking at the brain, 80% is water. When you look at the eyes, it's 99% water. We need water constantly. You know, our, our body's roughly 60 plus percent depending on the individual water. So getting the proper water in the body is critical. And then if you can get appropriate water, your body won't reject it. And so that's going to feel very different to someone just getting good water into their body. Then when you add hydrogen gas, then it's going to do all the things that hydrogen naturally does, which is lowering inflammation, lowering oxidation or well, what's called oxidative stress back into a normal range. What people have to understand is oxidation is normal and natural and necessary for life, but oxidative stress is not. So hydrogen's primary role is to manage oxidation. So we don't get to oxidative stress and then inflammation. Now in your, what you're doing every day to bless lives will create inflammation because the body, he is, is reacting to heal itself. Hydrogen has a very powerful anti inflammatory response. So there's thousands of studies showing this. Now the thing that people need to understand is your, our bodies, their body, whoever's listening to this, your body is designed produce hydrogen gas. We call it flatulence, we call it, you know, I laughingly I call it fart therapy. But the reality is you should produce hydrogen in the colon if, and it's a big if you have the appropriate bacteria, primarily anaerobic microflora in your gut that you're going to convert. Fatty acids, short chain and medium chain fatty acids as well as fiber gets converted into hydrogen. Now if your gut is not functioning properly, you won't be able to do this, you won't produce the hydrogen. And that's the problem we have in society. So that's why I developed Echo so many years ago, back when I started in 2009 was because people are not getting hydrogen. And therefore the immune function, inflammatory responses, brain function, heart function, cholesterol levels, diabetes, Parkinson's, all, you know, disease models in general are rising because of oxidative stress and inflammation. And that's all due to gut issues. And I don't think anyone's going to argue that. But what they didn't understand was when we say gut issue, what we're really saying is you can't produce hydrogen the way you're supposed to. And so hydrogen, which manages all that stuff, isn't there to do it anymore. And so that was my wife's issue. That's many, many other people's issue. And that's what hydrogen fixes. I simply used water as a vehicle to get hydrogen into the body again so that it can right itself. And that's really what hydrogen's doing. So it's critical for life. Everything from stomach acid, which is HCl, the H is hydrogen. So if you don't have hydrogen in your system, you can't produce stomach acid. And this becomes an issue with digestive disorders, which are, you know, 60%, 70%, 80% of the population in some states have digestive issues because they can't produce hydrogen. And so they can't produce hdl. So all of the issues we suffer from, most of them, if you really track it down, are a lack of hydrogen, because hydrogen causes things in the body to function properly. And without hydrogen, you can't. And so accidentally, I figured this out and introduced a product all those years ago that has revolutionized health.

So, you know what I'm going to get asked? Too much hydrogen?

Yes. And the answer is no. You can't get too much. Your body just breathes out the excess. And you should. If our gut was working properly, you should be able to produce 10 to 12 liters of hydrogen gas per day. Now, obviously, some is going out of the tailpipe, but some of it's coming into the body as well. And the reality is you can't get too much hydrogen because hydrogen only does what's needed. It doesn't like other antioxidants. It doesn't do something when nothing's needed. And so hydrogen is what's called a selective antioxidant. It only does good things for the body. And we can breathe out hydrogen when. When we have excess. So no problem there. Right.

And so for all the listeners, they've heard me talk about oxidative stress, and we've heard of oxygen, free radicals, and we'll just say, for instance, the O3. So maybe just, you know, give a brief but simple chemistry lesson on free radicals and the oxidative stress that everybody, you know, deals with every single day. And that's what's going on in your body the whole time.

Yes. So we have radicals, and people assume they're always bad. Most radicals in our body have a physiological role or a good thing it's doing. There are certain radicals that are called reactive oxygen species. So these are the bad guys that we don't want. So things like hydroxyl radicals, superoxide, different things like this that are causing cellular damage. So as we talked before, some radicals are good and some are bad. What's beautiful about hydrogen is hydrogen has been proven to only go after the reactive oxygen species that are negative or bad for our body. And hydrogen reacts only with those, which is why it's called a selective antioxidant. But all of the radicals that are life sustaining or have a physiological role, hydrogen doesn't react with or bother. So it's really a beautiful thing. Almost like, you know, hydrogen supposed to be in the body, like it innately knows what to do. But you know, there are other benefits in addition to getting rid of radicals that are damaging to our body, our cells, our, our joints and other things. But hydrogen also produces things like nitric oxide and peptides and collagen and all kinds of things like this that are necessary for life. And so it's really a beautiful process when once hydrogen is back in your body, it creates all kinds of pathways to function correctly.

Yeah, I think you hit on it very well. And that's why we speak so much about fluid quality, air quality and food quality is like an ever growing problem. So, you know, you mentioned gut health and we do studies to look at the gut microbiome because of its, it's such a, plays such a critical role in both, you know, nutrients, the immune process. Pretty much, if your gut doesn't work, you know, we'll say you can live about four minutes without air, a few days without fluid, a few months. Yeah, without food. But the consequences to having a dysfunctional gut, that's a heavy toll to pay.

Maybe.

I know, I see in my patients and then we can talk about how I navigate this with my patients. But if they have really bad chronic inflammation, which many of them do, their gut doesn't work well. So if you just pound them with supplementation, they don't absorb it. So we use a lot of liposomal, a lot of liquid, so it's just absorbed in the oral cavity. So nutrients, nutrients then get to where they need to, to go. And then obviously drinking things like hydrogen water will help them on the, you know, brush border or the, the micro level to reduce the oxidative stress experience there and help the, the healthy bacteria proliferate and the bad bacteria hopefully go away and get better balance. Like in terms of that, what kind of Very simple, specific, you know, recommendations do you have about that for the gut?

So when we look at assimilation or digestion, it's all about fermentation and having the right bacteria in the gut makes all the difference in the world. So, and I'm going to oversimplify this for the audience, but you have two main types of bacteria, aerobic and anaerobic. We should only have 1 to 4% aerobic bacteria and 96 to 99% of the bacteria in the gut should be anaerobic. The problem is if people have antibiotics or heavy metals or pesticides in their gut because of diet or whatever, next thing you know, the electrical potential of the tissue in the colon particularly will become a positive electrical charge. And that's perfect for aerobic bacteria, but it's not good for anaerobic. For anaerobes we need a negative 300 to a negative 400 millivolts of electrical potential in the tissue of the lining of the gut itself. That is what we would call a terrain or a biome. So the environment that these bacteria need and require to live in is an electrical environment where the tissue itself has a negative 300 to a negative 400 millivolts of electrical potential. If you have that, then you have the correct bacteria, the anaerobic microflora that wants fiber and fat. And now our diet or the desire of our, what we want to put in our mouth is healthy whole foods. That's good. The problem is when we have the positive electrical potential and we have too much aerobic bacteria, now we want carbs and sugar because that's what aerobic bacteria want and converts. With that comes anxiety and depression naturally and other issues when we have too much aerobic bacteria. So what the hydrogen does, the hydrogen is very electron rich. It gets into the colon, bathes that tissue and can impart and a process occurs where you have a negative electrical potential coming into the colon, the large intestine, so that now you have the perfect home for anaerobic microflora. And all of a sudden antioxidant pathways start to work, anti inflammatory response starts to work. All these kind of things that are supposed to be going on happen. Next thing you know, anxiety and depression can go away and we start wanting the proper foods. What gets really tough for people is when they're eating quote unquote healthy foods like salads and they're having diarrhea. And that's because you don't have the right bacteria to process fiber. And so they're like, what's wrong with me? I don't even understand. I. This podcast told me to eat fiber. This one tells me to eat this, this one tells me that. And I'm eating healthy foods. Why am I still sick? Why am I still suffering? And the reality is, it's not you. It's the bacteria in your gut. And you haven't created a biome or a terrain for that bacteria. And even if you take probiotics every day, they're only good for that day because you don't have sufficient hydration levels to have those probiotics actually work. Which is what? To start a colony. If the probiotic only works for that day, then you're back to needing to take another pill tomorrow. But if we get the terrain and the biome correct in the gut, the bacteria will start to grow on its own and start creating communities and proliferate in the intestinal tract. That's when you start to feel better. That's when you start to have digestion problems go away. And typically, this is not a guarantee, but typically, even people that get our bottle here. There it is. Even people that get our bottle and drink it properly, like three to six of these per day for two weeks, they'll say, oh, my gosh, I feel so much better. I'm eating foods that I haven't eaten in 10 years. I don't have gluten and dairy issues like I used to. I. I can go to a restaurant and eat stuff that I want to eat instead of having a mono diet. It's really because your bacteria in your gut is coming back. And so you can process foods and you can process things. This is really life changing for people. That and the sleep differences that they have the first night after they start drinking echo water that has hydrogen gas in it. It's profound. When people go, oh, my gosh, I haven't slept like that in 10 years. I'm dreaming. I'm having this, I'm having that. Like, literally, it's all going back to the basics. And all of a sudden people are like, wow, I feel so much better. Those are the things that I love. It's what gets me up every day. It's why I do what I do, because it gets people back to what they're supposed to be experiencing every day.

Well, that is certainly a powerful message. Our gut is uniquely positioned and plays a key and pivotal role in much of what, you know, we experience in patients. And we work really hard through our detox team to help identify imbalances and work to correct those. As you know, that is not an Easy task all the time. Takes several weeks to months of work if there are extreme imbalances which we encounter, you know, routinely. Yes, appreciate you discussing that.

Well, so one other thing I would say people, what people need to understand because I've had people, you know, people are smart and I've had them say, well, if you can quote, unquote, rehab or fix my gut in two weeks, can I just use your water for two weeks and then, you know, go back to whatever else? And I'll say, well, will you promise me that you will only eat organic non GMO foods that you have verified don't have pesticides or harmful chemicals in them? And they'll say, well, no. And I'll say, then you have to drink the water all the time because as you're putting things in your mouth that have pesticides and other harmful things in them that are going to disturb or destroy your gut. Again, as you're drinking the hydrogen water on a daily basis, you're repairing the damage that you're doing and the hydrogen will get ahead of it really quick. But that's what I want people to understand is that the gut issues are coming from lifestyle, they're coming from everyday choices. And I tell you not that you need to wake up in the morning and blame yourself. It's really difficult without being extremely disciplined to knock it chemicals, heavy metals, things in your body. It's increasingly more and more difficult to do that. And so I don't want people to beat themselves up. I want people to just enjoy life. And this is what you're going to have to do. You have to drink water anyways. I don't think anyone will argue with me. You need to be hydrated. And so hydrating with water that has hydrogen gas in it is critical for life at this stage of our society because there are so many pathways for chemicals, whether it's air, water, food, even lotions you're putting on your body. There are so many pathways for contaminants to get in your body. You need to have your gut working correctly.

Absolutely. That's what we discuss with everyone. You have to do your best to control your environment, your exposures to the products. So they all should be, you know, if there's any concern at all, you should just put them through the environmental Working group website and see what comes up so you have a better understanding about your products. So use women, which is obviously who I take care of. They get exposed to hundreds of chemicals every day through products in addition to what they get through the air through the fluid and through the food. So I want to thank you for coming on the show. Dr. Paul, great to have you. It's good to catch up with you and we look forward to seeing you soon. Where can the folks learn more about Echo should they choose to?

My next lecture will be in Austin the end of May through June at the Hack, Your health, what used to be called Ketocon. So I'll be speaking there. That's the next one that I'll be at in Austin, Texas. And then later this year in October, I'll be Palm Desert at Cairo, the California Cairo practic meeting. That's happening October. Anyways, you know, other Trinity Health Freedom Expo, I'll be speaking out like I do every year. There's some other chiropractic events. I'll be speaking. I just did Idaho State meeting. I'll be doing other meetings. I'm a little more picky now what we do, because I don't want to be flying everywhere, all over, all the time. But 20, 25, I'm excited to say that I'll be speaking in Greece. That's wonderful thing. I'm excited about that. But really, really, you know, I go to the events that are strategic. I, I do enjoy speaking and educating and we want to make sure it's the right audience. We want to make sure that everything is going, you know, where we want it to go and in the appropriate audience. But we will be doing webinars and podcasts and different things where people can get educated. But I'm grateful for you having me on so we can educate all your amazing ladies that you serve.

All right, well, thanks for coming on.