Jacqui Nelson's Explant Journey: Dangers Lurking Inside with Dr. Robert Whitfield

All right, welcome back to my show. Today I have Jackie Nelson, one of my patients, and we're going to discuss her breast explant journey. And thank you for coming on the show, Jaci. I appreciate you hopping on.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, of course. So, you know, we've talked a little offline about this, but it's a complex decision and, you know, maybe for the audience, explain your journey to both maybe why you thought about getting implants and ultimately decided to do that. And from there we can, you know, jump off into when you maybe start to experience symptoms.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll never forget being a little girl, and I'm talking like 6 years old and just really admiring all in my life having a larger chest. And so from a very small age, I remember thinking to myself, if when I become an adult and I don't have large boobs, I'm going to get breast implants. I mean, I was literally thinking that as a child. And so fast forward to high school and then college, and I was just never blessed. I had 32 double a chest, so virtually nothing. And I was always really self conscious about that. And so my parents knew this, obviously. I talked very openly with them about that my whole life. And so my college graduation gift was either going to be a new car, which I needed, or breast implants. And so I said, I'm going to go with the breast implants and I'll figure out the car situation later. And so in 20 and 2008, I got my breast implants. And I was so happy. I've got to tell you, I feel like I had confidence kind of for the first time in my life, but I was so young. I was 22 years old. So not that you asked this, but I think it's important to note for young women watching that I wish I could go back to that younger Jackie, especially 21, 22, and say, Live some of your life first and then make the decision. But that just wasn't in the cards for me. So I got sailing and plans in 2008 and was very thin. I mean, I was young. I was working out all the time. And so I was very thin. So you could see rippling from the bag from the saline implants on the side breast. And I hated that. And they also just didn't feel real. They felt really like water balloons in my chest. So that was really uncomfortable. So in 2012, fast forward what, like four years, I'd gotten married and we had moved to South Carolina from Virginia. And so I went back To Virginia, to my plastic surgeon and had them removed and had silicone implants put in.

Let's go back to the. Because that's a very, the trajectory's very important. And then so there's different things about the devices that we need to unpack. But so from a very young age, even younger that I normally hear, you were already thinking about that from a, like a visual perception.

Oh, absolutely.

That had imprinted in your brain and that was the situation. And as a young person, you were making a choice over an automobile versus getting this done for a lot of reasons. And you know, we can unpack them. But like what you said was important thing, like confidence is a big key to a lot of this. And when it all gets unpacked, you know, maybe there's underlying things, but yours certainly from a young age stems from what you just said, like being confident and you felt like that was a necessary, you know, component at that time. And then I'm sure because you were super lean and working out and very young, it was probably not a discussion about a fat transfer. But I mean, it would take somebody used to doing that to have that discussion with you or mention it because it wouldn't have been something that you would typically have just come upon. So for everybody listening, you know, I get asked to do a lot of low BMI fat transfers for patients who don't want to have implants. And so I have another surgeon, Dr. Thomas Chung, who is, has come on with us to help carry out and perform more fat transfers because our explant practice is very busy and it may take several months if someone came in and wanted to even discuss having a fat transfer. So we have options for folks who really just want to focus on their own tissue as a form of augmentation, whether it's breast or buttock, what have you. But we'll hear from Jackie, if that was ever even posed to her. And then her second issue is during that time frame, silicone was not approved and and then became released. We'll say 2012, 13. And then, you know, I presume the change is going to happen because silicone from a texture feels, I mean from a feel standpoint, externally to internally feels so much more different than a saline device. Especially someone who's leaner because that's a pre filled implant, not a filled implant. So probably listening a filled implant think of like a water balloon and you're going to fill it and then, you know, as the balloon inflates, it becomes, we'll just say spherical because it's Fixed in this shape. And for a silicone device that's pre filled, it's already coming filled and it's less apt to have rippling that's visible, although it still can happen. So maybe with those. Let's touch on. You know, was fat even in the discussion Whether or not you could have had it or not? Was it ever discussed with you?

It was never discussed. And there's absolutely zero hate to who did my original implant. Both of them. I love her to death. She's a good family friend, but she just didn't know. And you know, we lived in Virginia beach and there was. She was very busy with her implant business. I mean, that's really what she focused on. But no fat transfer was never offered to me. I will say I've thought really hard about this and long about this. I don't know that if it would have been offered to me, if I even would have accepted it, because in my mind I kind of wanted a really drastic change from what I had.

Right.

I wish I could go back and say, yeah, I would have loved to have been offered that and I would have gone with that. But I think for over a decade of my life, I so wanted these just big boobs. And I don't think a fat transfer probably would have done that for me. What I want.

That's correct. Because the fat transfer and how I used to parse it out with patients who are lower body weight was if you want more than a cup size change at one time, that a fat transfer is not something that's going to resolve that. And just like you're pointing out, many times the perception is they want a lot more change at one time. That's the whole point. So rather than take the stairs, let's take the elevator. And that's going to be, you know, an implant, which is fine. Obviously I did that for cancer and for cosmetics for, you know, a number of years. And fast forward to, you know, your change to a different product. So that's. You were having trouble with rippling and the way it felt. Just not natural probably.

Yeah, I mean, it felt like I had put two water balloons in my chest. It was so uncomfortable. Anytime I. I wasn't a runner, but anytime I would work out or jump or do any sort of hiit exercises, it just felt like they were just bouncing up and down in not a natural like breast way. Right. So, yeah, it was very uncomfortable, to say the least. I experienced some pain too with them. I remember this one instance I was visiting my husband in North Carolina he was there for work with the Marine Corps, and there was just shooting pain in both breasts, and it was so uncomfortable. And I just thought, I mean, that was back in 2011. And so really, you know what, three years after I got them put in, that was really kind of the only pain I ever experienced. I had that pain for a couple of months, and then it went away. And then about eight months later, I had them redone with the silicone. So.

All right, so now you've gone through that surgery and, you know, from a cosmetic standpoint, a healing standpoint, and how things felt, was there improvements?

Absolutely. It was a really quick recovery from that implant in 2012. Went back to work within a week. Felt great. Loved the way they looked. They looked so natural and just beautiful. So I was really initially very happy with them. Yeah.

So then, because many times what I have relayed to me is symptoms can begin after another surgery, either for a exchange to different filler, like you did from saline to silicone, or if there's a resi. A revision type procedure for a capsular contracture or a. A malposition. So something's not quite settled or shifted. I mean, lots of times implants shift outwardly towards the armpit. So that's not an uncommon problem. So from that point forward, catch us up to, I guess, from a symptom standpoint, what started.

So I will tell you going back to when I had them initially put in the saline implants in 2008. Immediately started having symptoms, but I never would have attributed them to my breast implants. Okay, so severe brain fog. To the point. And this is really sad to say out loud, but to the point. I just thought like, okay, I'm just, you know, I'm just not very smart. I'm just. I don't know. That was really truly what I thought in my head for so many years because I had a hard time processing things. Very slow. And I was never like that before in plants. I was really. I mean, I was the captain of all of my sports teams. I was really just with it, you know, ab student, did great in college. And then right after college is this brain fog set in. And it just felt like the entire time I had implants, which was 15 years. I said towards the end, when I started learning about breast implant illness, that it felt like my head was in the clouds. It just felt so foggy and so cloudy, and it just was awful. So it was really hard for me to process a of lot also. And I've told you this before, and I just Find the timing interesting, but I got my implants in In May of 2008, and about six months later, we found my very first skin cancer. And in my mind, now being, you know, 38 and having all this experience with skin cancer and breast implant illness, in my mind, I'm thinking, is there a correlation between chronic inflammation in my body and back at the time I had a terrible diet, so I was consuming a lot of seed oil, which I know doesn't help with the sun. And so is there a correlation between the 40 plus skin cancers I've had in 15 years since having breast implants? One of which I just had removed a Mohs surgery on Monday. And so I'm still dealing with the ramifications of whatever it is, whether it was the breast implants or not. But I just find that timing interesting. So skin cancer, terrible, severe brain fog initially, dry mouth and dry eyes. Absolutely. Those two things started immediately. Anxiety and depression. Depression was never really a big part of my life. Anxiety was. I've been a perfectionist pretty much my whole life. So that just amplified by a ton. And I'm talking to the point when I met Kenny, my now husband, I mean, there we had a lot of issues because I was severe ocd, my anxiety was through the roof. Now, his career didn't help. He was a fighter pilot in the Marine Corps. So he had this really stressful, strenuous career that I just kind of at the time attributed my anxiety and depression to his career because he was always gone and I was doing so much of my life by myself. And so all of these symptoms that I had, I can kind of say at the time, oh, it's just lifestyle, it's just situational, they'll go away. But then when his career changed and it was much less strenuous and stressful, the anxiety and the depression didn't go away. And honestly, it. It kind of got worse, especially the depression kind of set in post kids and whatnot. But loads of GI issues, loads of GI issues that I'm actually still dealing with. But I know that I'm only, I guess, six, seven months post explant. So I know that that's going to take time to heal. But it wasn't until 2021 that the chronic fatigue set in. And when that set in, my whole world was flipped upside down. And it was the hardest thing I have ever gone through in my whole life was the chronic fatigue. I mean, you know, had to step away from my career that I loved because I would be running these zooms with hundreds of my team members. And I wouldn't have a talking part. So I would just be sitting here listening and I'd fall asleep and. Jackie, Jackie, wake up. Hello. What are you doing? And I'm like, oh, my gosh. So the chronic fatigue has been life altering, to say the least. So I had some joint and muscle pains as well. I will say that I started pretty heavily dosing collagen and that seemed to help with it. But I will say as soon as I'm off collagen, they come back immediately, those joint muscle pains. So I have to be very religious about taking that every day. And if I'm not taking that, then, yeah, I mean, it felt like I. I was a little old lady in this young person's body, which was really sad.

And maybe, you know, you had done a lot of testing. Yeah. Because you were trying, you know, obviously on your own to learn as much as possible. And maybe you can share for the audience kind of some shocking things from a test standpoint that you found that are not the only factors that contribute to what you were experiencing, but certainly play a role.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, some of the things I know you asked before that I was doing to try to alleviate these symptoms. I was paying out of pocket for everything because of course insurance isn't going to cover these more holistic approaches to health. But I was in the mild hyperbaric oxygen chamber multiple times a week, which, you know, is a 90 minute session. So to have a husband who's gone all the time and two kids that are involved in everything was really hard to find time for that. But again, I had to step away from my career to make time for healing. I was doing red light therapy, I was doing the sauna. Obviously I still had the implants in. Didn't know I was melting the implants while I was sauning. I completely changed my diet. I went from eating, I mean, I would really honestly say probably 95% processed foods to eating so clean. I mean, I got so into nutrition that I became a certified health coach and a certified nutrition coach. I just loved it. And I wanted to share so much of what I was learning with people. So gluten free, dairy free, you know, 98% clean whole food diet. And that's still, I mean, I felt a little better, a touch better that I feel like the fatigue, it even got to a point to where I couldn't work out anymore. So I was like, that something is failing me in my body and I was getting the test done to get back to that question, I found out that I had no ferritin. So you've got the iron and the ferritin. And I thought initially a couple years ago, well, of course, you know, maybe that's why I don't have any energy. But my insurance wouldn't approve having iron transfusions, so couldn't go through that because that was going to be like a thousand dollars of transfer transfusion, and I was going to need them multiple times a week. And so, you know, found out that I had no ferritin. And then I found out through testing that I didn't have any testosterone. You know, I mean, you think of testosterone as the male sex hormone, but females need testosterone to function as well. So I went on a testosterone hormone replacement cream and then ended up switching to an oral daily tablet. That didn't do anything for my fatigue. Didn't do anything. And that's when I, you know, did a lot of the testing. Once I found out what you asked for from patients and found out that I had the worst heavy metal toxicity. Think you've ever seen the second worst mold toxicity you've ever seen. My environmental toxicities are through the roof. Bpa, glyphosate, and really bad GI issues with candida overgrowth, leaky gut, which. Hello. Like, it was so nice to actually see all of that on paper because it gave validation to all of these questions that I had for years leading up to that. And I 100% have you to thank for that because I wouldn't have known to test for those specific things if it weren't for you.

Well, I would say your story, as I go back and review some of the things. When you and others give me the story of chronic fatigue or brain fog, you know, I immediately think someone has mold. I just automatically, you know, think that now. And I just did a show with Dr. Kyle Landry, who's basically a biofilm and fungus and food science expert. And he talks about how something as simple as like peanut butter is full of aflatoxin. And so obviously we're all microdosing from the time, you know, you're little, unless you have a nut allergy. Peanut butter. So you're getting these. And he calls it this. This chronic low dose of it. So you're building up things like aflatoxin. And, you know, if we just look at it, aflatoxin, ochratoxin, the fumicins, the. I'm gonna read your report. Cause I can't even, you know, you have every hatchelin, Rordan, brucherin. I Mean, you have so many mycotoxins and heavy metals. Only Lauren Bostic had more heavy metals in the 95th percentile than you. But your combo is winner, winner, chicken dinner. Because you have literally a page. You have almost two full pages in the 95th percentile on our standard test that we perform. And just like we talked to Dr. Landry about, when you have this level of toxicity, so you have all these different biotoxins in your system. This, as you mentioned, food, and we can unpack. So ultra processed food has a lot of additives, preservatives, sugars, not a lot of nutrition in it. And the device, when someone's getting heated up in a sauna. I went on Lauren's show, and she's the one who got me saying melted. But so the implant's actually not melting. I got in tons of trouble for that. So the implant's not melting. Basically, the shell, which has the. The components of the heavy metals in it and other chemicals, is leaching those out into your system as it's being heated up. So much like in cookware these days, you hear about, you know, the different things like nickel and chromium could come out of the cookware, which is always super exciting to hear about when you're cooking. And so, you know, if you're consistently heating these devices up and they're degrading over time, which all devices are in this class, then you get. You had. Just for everybody listening, I'm just going to run through heavy metals. You had arsenic, barium, cadmium, cesium, lead, mercury, nickel, tellurium, thallium, thorium, tungsten. And 10 is in the 75th. So when someone says they have a lot of brain fog and they have a toxicity report that looks like Jackie's, you have all these mycotoxins, which are from mold, plus you have all these heavy metals. So she doesn't have one or two, I guess, pathways to have that problem. She has a very bad mold exposure leading to mycotoxins. And that can be a number of avenues. Food, coffee, air fluids, whatever. And then you have all of the heavy metals. And heavy metals not only come from devices, they can come from groundwater. And if she's anywhere near military bases, it's kind of notorious for the bases that have problems with groundwater. There's tons of, you know, nighttime lawsuits if you just listen to the television about groundwater and bases. So that a couple to what she said about eating, you know, processed foods. So there's glyphosates, and then products are a big Thing for women, many products have parabens in them. So for everybody listening, you got to be careful with your products and put them through something like the environmental working group and see if the product's been tested and what's in it and try to get some kind of vetting of the product because. And I don't know what led to all of Jackie's different issues with skin cancer. The people that have the highest incidence of skin cancer were like, taken from one continent to another and basically repeatedly exposed to sun. And they're fair. So they got more problems with melanoma. So lots of things happen to predispose us to, we'll say skin cancer, but yours is obviously at an alarming amount relative to what it should be. And then things like this from an exposure standpoint, you know, do make me wonder how much this potentiated that problem. And, you know, this level of insult to your immune system, of which a large majority is the gut, leads to something which you experience, and maybe you can talk about all your gut troubles. So everybody kind of gets a impression of how difficult that was for you.

Yeah, I mean, you know, not to be tmi, but the level of gas that I've experienced since getting implants has been to the point where my husband's like, do I really want to be married to you? Like, you're the gassiest person I've ever met in my entire life. And I laugh when I say that, but it's. It's actually very painful. So it is not a laughing matter. But it's funny that, you know, we can now get to the point in our marriage where we laugh about it because it honestly caused a lot of issues. Early on, he thought I was just being funny, and I'm like, no, I literally have the worst pain in my stomach, and I just need to get it out as much as possible. Dealt with a lot. I mean, chronic constipation to the point where back in. Let's see, this would have been in 2000, either end of 2011 or beginning of 2012. So really soon after implants, getting them initially put in. I didn't go to the bathroom. I didn't go number two for about 15 days. And I mean, I'm busy. I'm working. My husband is here, there, and everywhere with his career. And I wasn't health conscious at all back then. And I mean, a dinner for me would be a glass of wine, a block of cheese, and gummy bears. I just had the worst diet ever. And. Or I'd swing by McDonald's and get.

You gotta say that again. I mean, that's an all time. That's a keeper.

Say it again.

More time for everybody listening.

Yeah, I mean, literally a normal dinner for me would be a glass of wine, a block of cheese and a bag of gummy bears. Oh my God, I wish I was lying. I wish I was making that up. You can get my mother and father and even Kenny on here a dairy.

You got a bunch of ochratoxin coming from the wine and then you got processed sugars from the gummy bears. So you have all the food groups.

All the food groups, exactly. Check. Chick, check. Oh, yeah. Then I'd swing by, you know, McDonald's for an extra large fry at 10pm Because I'd be hungry because I was getting absolutely no nutrition from the food that I was consuming. And so anyways, a lot of gut issues. And actually since my explant, I've been on this journey of really trying to figure out. Figure out how to get to the root cause of it. I just had my very first colonoscopy, which was a great experience. Thankfully they didn't find anything. I was really nervous about colorectal cancer because I know that just that's on the rise in young people. So I was really nervous about that. So that was nice to check that off the box. I don't have Sibo. I don't have H. Pylori. I mean, I have been down the rabbit hole of testing even since my explant on. On what's going on. I will say that for the last two weeks I haven't had any tummy issues. So I don't know. I think maybe with the detox that we did through cellcore and everything that I've been doing, maybe it's finally working. So I'm pretty hopeful because these last two weeks have been kind of great.

So what we talked about with Dr. Landry was basically what you're intimating. So from the time you make any change, there's going to be a period of imbalance. And when you're making as many changes as you made in that time frame. And I think, you know, I think everybody's really impatient and to create change you have to make a small change that then can just become a habit that then compounds and you can add to it. And that's the only way for, for you or for anybody trying to recover. You know, the sharp process is set up to actually identify opportunities for you. You know, your talks test is forever going to be something that you Go back to and repeat. Because unlike a laboratory value on a blood panel, which is typically going to be normal, that, you know, for sure highlights everything that, you know from an exposure standpoint was hampering your liver and making it hard for you to detoxify. Because mycotoxins. Whether it's hard for your body to detoxify and eliminate mycotoxins, I don't think most people feel like, you know, why is. Why is Dr. Whitfield, you know, going through this detox process? Why does he have this team doing this? Because it's not an easy process. It's not something I can just pill, shot or drug and make it go away. I would do it if I could, but it's not a. A straightforward problem that it's. Most often my patients come back and say, you know, people say, mold is not a thing. I don't need to be worried about it. And that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's a disservice to the patients, and I don't know if it's a lack of. Pure lack of understanding of the problem, and that's a training education issue. That's one part of it. Then it's, you know, kind of the next level. Like, why are we not at least looking at it and trying to put some, you know, not just, you know, basic science behind it, but even just clinical, you know, scenarios where in a practice like ours, it looks at it all the time. I mean, I see. I see it routinely. And then I had a very prominent physician in this country say, have you ever seen a patient not have it? And the answer is, yes, of course I've seen patients not have mycotoxin exposures. But if someone who's very prominent says in kind of a flippant way, like, that's not a big deal, I'm a little worried.

Absolutely.

Because it will become a factor both in how your gut behaves. And so everybody listening. There's this thing called the gut brain axis. It's not a figment of your imagination. It actually is a big component. And. And people have heard the term probably loosely called leaky gut. So you can have problems, and we'll just say the word elimination is how you get rid of the waste. But people have difficulty with their gut, can have diarrhea or constipation. Either one. Either situation is bad.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Because it's an absorptive problem. And when I mean absorption, if you can't get what you need out of the food, you're taking in, then everything else will suffer. You know, from an energy standpoint, you'll suffer, from a mood standpoint, you'll suffer from a hormone standpoint which generates and regulates all the systems that you can imagine that'll suffer. So then your sleep will go. And it just is a slippery, slippery slope. So when we talk about, you know, and people think I'm being mean to them, when I say just cut out gluten and dairy and don't use seed oils, they're like, well, what can I eat?

There's so much to eat, right?

I mean, so everybody's probably at this point in our audience has heard of an elimination diet, which I think, you know, when I was first taught about it, I was like, man, that seems really cruel. So we started experimenting really on me, looking at different food tests. I don't know how many food tests I've done, honestly. We settled on just an alcat because it seems to be extremely reproducible, it's very easy to follow. So we, we like that test and it's easy to carry around. So then you're just trying to change behavior. So if you don't to your point, you know, understand there are a lot of things that you can eat and drink that aren't processed or don't come in a box or haven't been on the shelf for a month. Like anything that's on the shelf or in a freezer has a lot of sugar in it, just so, you know, sugar and otherwise it wouldn't remain stable, it would just spoil. So I mean, these are just basic things. But you know, gut healing, long term issue, you know, for you, obviously, and it's getting incrementally better, which is the goal. And when someone has a lot of problems with the gut and they're really trying to take the elevator instead of the stairs, and they start doing prebiotics and probiotics. I tell them like, you gotta calm all that down because as Jackie experienced, she had a real imbalance and she had more methane producing bacteria that's contributing to more gas. And so although it doesn't sound, and nobody wants to talk about it, like when you get it imbalanced and you have that and it creates pain and pressure, it's very uncomfortable and it's disconcerting because maybe you are trying to eat better. And these, you're taking a prebiotic and a probiotic. And that's why I tell everybody like, okay, so no one knows exactly what you're doing because you're just throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks. So part of our sharp process or method is really trying to identify what factors genetically, toxicity wise, gut microbiome, food sensitivities, hormone imbalances, which Jackie brought up, which is great. I find a ton of people have testosterone suppression in my practice. And if more people thought about it, I said something the other day. I doubt as many people would get implants if they knew their libido would go after that. So it's all kind of disconcerting when you think about it, that all these different things can go off and it's, you know, when I explain it. Breast implant illness, for lack of a better definition to me, is a chronic inflammatory process of which one component is a medical device. It's not the only thing because obviously chronic inflammation existed before breast implants. It exists in patients who don't have breast implants. So that we're all very clear. It's not, you know, there's a hundreds of thousands of people every day dealing with chronic inflammation from the same exact things that Jackie's talking about.

Absolutely.

So you had an explant surgery and then obviously that was a big decision to come to. You've highlighted, you know, obviously how complicated it was to get there and then you have it done. You spent time with us and catch us up to kind of the process you've gone through and, and you just intimated that the last couple weeks have been really good, but it's not a quick fix for everybody. Even though some of my patients go on Instagram and other shows and say it is. It's not like that. So my disclaimer is there's a lot of work to be done just in addition to. But not instead of surgery.

Right? Absolutely. I do want to say this is a, as a full circle moment for me because you don't probably even know this, but I first heard your name tomorrow, July 20, 2023, for the very first time last year.

Oh, I didn't know that. No.

Yeah. I listened to actually your podcast with Lauren Bostic and literally was just in shambles and was like, I have breast implant illness. And I called your office the next day, scheduled a consultation. I mean, it's just been. You have the best people working with you. You guys have the most amazing team. And I've just been so impressed from that very first call I had with them until what we're doing right now. So this is kind of a pinch me moment to be able to do this with you because I found out about you on a podcast so to be podcasting with you is kind of crazy. And to feel as good as I feel, I feel like you've given me my life back. I'll never ever be able to thank you enough, truly. But to answer your question, so X plant was January 2nd, and everything happened so fast. I heard your name in July of last year. I was able to get into an in person consultation. You're in Austin. I'm in Frisco, Texas, north of Dallas. So thankfully my husband flies for the airlines. I can fly down to see you whenever I need to. So was able to get in for an in person consultation with you in November. So between July and November, I did all of that testing that you had asked me to do, met with you for the first time in November, and scheduled my explant with you for January 2nd. I didn't need multiple consultations with multiple surgeons. I knew, honestly, I knew from the time I heard you on the podcast that you were my person. But then meeting you in person just further validated that for me. So had my explant January 2nd, and I've told you this multiple times that I had. I'm a very like, high expectation person. Pretty much my whole life, I've had very high expectations for myself and the people around me, and I didn't want to do that for this surgery. I didn't want to have high expectations because I didn't want to be let down. So I've told you that I don't really have high expectations for the length of. Of my healing journey or how things are going to look or anything like that. I just am going to take it day by day and I know that I'm making the right decision by getting the explant and that however long this healing journey takes, which honestly is probably going to be for the rest of my life, and I'm okay with that. I'm here for it. This is my life and I want to feel vivacious and I want to feel like I did before I had implants and I'm slowly getting there. And like you said, I love the analogy with the staircase and the elevator because I feel like I've been on the staircase and. And that's the way to go. That's how true healing in my mind happens. You're not going to take a pill. You're not going to, you know, have a surgery and immediately feel good. Yeah. The girls that get on Instagram and are like, I had my explant. I am back to normal. I'm like, oh, wow, that's not been my story. And I want other women to know that if it's not their story, that they're not abnormal, that it does take time to heal, but you've got to be 100% in it. I mean, I went home and I bought multiple packages for hyperbaric oxygen chamber at Restore Hyper Wellness. I, you know, was getting multiple lymphatic drainage massages weekly. I was doing everything that you have in your program. I was just taking that home with me. Probably would have, you know, obviously done it with you if I lived local but found local places that I trusted and you know, red light therapy and all the things that I knew would, would truly help me once I got the implants out. Another thing that I did because my mercury was pretty high. I don't know if we said what it was, but it was really high. I got all my silver fillings removed so that again out of pocket because insurance wasn't going to cover that because it wasn't medically necessary. But I, I do have amalgam free mouth now, which is nice.

So that's, I think I haven't made as big of a impact. But we discuss it and I mention it in terms of mindset. So Jackie has the mindset that we want everybody to approach it with is it's a long term play, it's not a short term play. And so obviously everybody who's getting implants typically has it. There's a not enough tissue, not enough size, not enough volume, whatever that is. And you get implants and you know when you're coming to explants, no matter how good the surgeon is, it doesn't matter if it's me or anybody else. When you remove implants, we're not going to make things cosmetically better. We can do a lift to tighten the skin. We can add fat back in the instances where that makes sense and, and it's the desire of the patient or we can do all the above. That's all, that's all fine. It's not an implant. It's never going to look like an implant. I just before I hopped on with you, I was seeing a patient who flew in from California to have an explant lift and fat transfer. Pretty common thing I do. And it's still, when you add volume back, it doesn't look like an implant. So it's this whole visual thing that when you see it, it triggers in your, in your brain, you know. And some people have very traumatic memories. Yours is more of an expectation you set for yourself. Early in life, some people were bullied, some people have a lot of trauma around that and they're in a loop in their mind. And no matter what they look like at 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 3 months, it's triggering that loop and it stays negative. And if you can't ever get out of the negative loop, it doesn't matter, you know, how great we've done anything or how strong my team is. My team's really effective. I have five members of my team who've had explants, including a recent explant. But and so we're going to partner with a group to really help with that part. And it's going to consist of a community where people are not going to be harassed, it's going to be a supportive community, monitored. And they're going to have daily opportunities to connect and give themselves space. Because most of all, like I find people just, they don't give themselves any time or space to do or have a recovery like you're describing because whatever I, I, I can't, you know, I don't know what's going on in everybody's atmosphere and I don't ever claim to. But you know, if you let all the negative in all the time and don't find the positive, then it's very, very hard for you to build upon and incrementally get better. You have. So I, I applaud you for taking the right approach to it because if you don't start by day by day, all right, this is the positive. I am doing better now and not get caught up in the wash of emotion of an appearance change that as everybody listening should know if they don't know. I took care of cancer patients for over 20 years. Worst possible scenarios, life altering, you know, disease process, limb threatening injuries, breast cancer, head and neck cancer. I used to make jawbones for people out of their leg bone. I would take out, would help reconstruct areas of the pelvis or the extremities after huge tumor removals or after breast cancer removal. We would do breast reconstruction with dip free flaps. I mean, so when we have somebody, I don't think this is any less impactful than those types of things from a mental standpoint. But you have to get over that hurdle and this is a long term wellness play. So if you came to me, as everybody knows, I don't decide what surgery to do for you. You've already in your head decided you're going to have surgery. I'm just helping you understand and make the best decision you can for yourself. I don't decide surgery for anybody. Anybody thinks that's coming, you should not come see me. Not what I do. I help you make an informed decision. So everybody's clear.

Absolutely. Oh, I never have once felt pressured by anything you've said. You've just made it really clear about the options that I have to choose from. Said to me, you know, you could have very easily upsold me on a fat transfer at the time of explant, because I did do an explant with Lyft, and you said, your body isn't ready for it. You have too much inflammation. So I was like, wow. Because I was totally thinking I would do a fat transfer at the same time, just to kind of one and done type of mentality, not have to go back in, but more and more.

Just to be as. As. I'm always pretty conservative given my background. So I'm trying to make sure that especially with your toxicity test, like, you gotta do a fair amount of work so that you're in a better, more optimized position. And nobody even has like, our experience with that because we probably have tested more people in more stringent ways than anybody in the country. But that being said, you know, we kind of not the Lone Ranger, but we're definitely doing things with a lot of as much careful consideration as possible based on each individual case. That's. I don't. Nothing's a cookie cutter for us, so we just don't. Don't do it.

Exactly. I love everything that you have been doing and are doing. And like I said, if it weren't for you, I don't know, I mean, I hope that I would have found out about what the term breast implant illness is, and my eyes would have been open. But the moment I heard you talking about it, I just thought, that's exactly what this is. This is what's going on in my body. And I thought it would be interesting to note this particular point because I talked to a lot of women on Instagram daily about, oh, I have a consultation with Dr. Whitfield. And what was your experience in life? And so I'm just constantly singing your praises, or if people are going to see someone else, I'm like, hey, add Dr. Whitfield onto your list of surgeons that you see. And so. But I talked to them and they say, you know, were you ever nervous about going into your explant and still having the symptoms that you had pre explant, post explant, like still having the brain fog, still having the. This that the other. And emphatically my answer is no, I wasn't scared to get the explant. I knew that having a foreign object in my body, two of them, was causing systemic inflammation and that I wanted them out anyways. And I had, you know, been pregnant three times and had two babies and breastfed each of them for a year. And so they. They honestly were starting to get very large, and they were very matronly, and I didn't like the way they even really looked anymore.

And.

And so the look, the appearance, had nothing to do with my decision. It was a hundred percent. I want them out because I really do truly believe that they're causing all of these issues. But to the women out there that are thinking about getting an explant or that are scared to because they think, well, what if I still have my symptoms after I get them removed? I just say. I hate to say go for it, but I mean, that's what I said to myself. Just still do it, because you're doing yourself such a service by getting them removed, because they're obviously creating some sort of issues in your body. And I'm telling you, I am the most indecisive person in the entire world. And there have been two times in my life that I have been so clear. And it's like God himself have said, said to me, move forward with this. And it was when I met my husband that he was the person for me. I was the most. I was. Anyways, he was the person for me, so I said yes immediately. We've been together for like three or four months when he asked me to marry him, and it was when I heard you on the podcast and heard you talking about breast implant illness, I knew that moment I was getting them removed. And I think, to your point about mindset, I think it's also so important to have a great support system around you that just believes in it too emphatically. And I will say it took like two or three days to get Kenny on board because he thought, whoa. I mean, I came home from listening to this podcast. I'd been listening to it on a drive home from Waco and came home crying. And I was like, I'm getting my breast implants removed. And he's like, I'm sorry, what? Who have you been talking to? What's going on? I said, It's Dr. Whitfield. And I'm sure he was cursing your name at first, but we obviously love you in our household now. But it took him a day or two to get on board. He listened to that, that podcast. I made him go for a walk around our neighborhood and listen to it. He came back and he was 100% on board. And he's actually, I think one of the main reasons I've been able to really dive into this healing process because he said to me, you need to focus on this. You need to get better so you can be better for us eventually. And so I've just. I hit the jackpot with someone that just truly believes in BII and. And believes in me taking the time to truly heal from this and that. It's going to take much longer than we probably think or want.

I think that, you know, that's a really underappreciated factor in this. And so I've had people show up alone and people back out on them and really set a. A poor example for support in a very obviously critical situation. So whether it's your partner, your spouse, your family member, like, whatever the support system is, it's a challenging time. And then coming and spending time with us, we. Although we try to make it as smooth as possible, it's. It's still a challenge. I mean, I've had people show up from other countries basically alone and spend a couple, two, three weeks here, up to a month, trying to get themselves into the best possible, you know, position they can before they go back. For the. The folks who can rely and have a spouse who's supportive or a partner who's super, super supportive, you can always have just, like, your expression. People are a lot more at ease. Obviously, there's not that underlying tension of what's this going to end up being. And that goes back to the whole neurologic aspect of this. That is why we're going to work with and have more resources available for our patients. You gotta expand it. It's probably all, what am I? I'm gonna be 55 in three weeks. So, like, everybody my age probably should have multiple sessions of therapy at some point or do EDMR or.

Yeah, for sure.

That nature. But certainly with this having, you know, supports and then we want to really expand what we offer because I know it's important. It's just, you know, identifying and adopting, you know, and creating a community so everybody's supported. I don't want any unsupportive or unregulated or uninformed. I just. God, the Internet. It's a disaster.

Disaster.

I can't. I'm constantly, like, responding to or creating, you know, content to help with some level of. Of understanding. That's not right or something that's been said or what have you. So that's a whole nother show ahead.

I know you're fighting a uphill battle for sure.

I'm so. I can't, you know, obviously, thank you enough for listening to Lauren's show with me as our guest, as Lauren's our patient, and then really applaud you for taking action, because it is a big step, like you said, to just go ahead and go for it and get things in alignment for you personally and so that everything else can be in alignment for you and your family. And we appreciate your spouse and how supportive they are and helping you and your family the journey.

Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah, I. I feel like the biggest lesson that I've learned through all of this is that I'm way stronger than I ever thought I was. And I think so many women are so much stronger and have so much more courage than they give themselves credit for. And so I hope that anyone listening that even has the smallest inkling of, like, could it be just schedule a consultation and have the conversations, have the options put in front of you. So, you know, because, man, I did not know I was as strong as I was to go through everything I've gone through and come out on the other side and be feeling as good as I feel today. I mean, do I still have bad days? Absolutely. But I have far more great, wonderful days than I do bad days. And it used to be in reverse, so it's. It's pretty special. And I can't thank you enough.

Well, I want to thank you for coming on the show. And we'll get this up as soon as we can to Jackie's Instagram. We'll make sure we share it with her so she has an opportunity to put it on her feed. And you can follow us. Rest implant illness experts and go to our URL. Thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me.