Why Removing the Capsule Isn't Optional: The Immune Response Your Surgeon Isn't Explaining

90% of my clinic is women, and many of them are dealing with complex chronic illness. What does that even mean? They feel like crap and they have no idea why, and they're not getting answers, and they're just told to get on the antidepressant. They're just told to deal with it, you're getting older. What happens if you eat something that's poisonous? Mercury, silicone, heavy metals. The body's going to react. There's going to be inflammation, it's going to be irritated. Their surgeon said, well, that's not possible. That can't happen. Your body can't react like that to that substance. So she came into me, I grabbed the homeopathic, it went away. She went back to her surgeon, see, this went away. Nobody wants that chronic illness. If I told you, you know, you're going to be bedridden and, um, and having body pain and brain fog, do you still want your breast implants?

You're gonna be like All right, I have Dr. Moore with me, and we were just talking offline about a number of topics. And, uh, later on today I'm gonna, uh, broach something that really causes a shit ton of concern in the community, and it's called capsulectomy. And that's the scar tissue that's around a medical device. In this case, because I do breast, uh, explant surgery, it's around the breast implant. And, uh, I'll, I'll give Dr. Moore how I think of this, and then we'll get all of his comments, because I find this to be as complicated as it's made out to be. So your body, as soon as you place a device in it, it forms scar around it because your body recognizes it as foreign. That's, that's very intuitive. Your immune system does that. It builds this collagen sac around it. Now, in the acute inflammatory process, at a certain point, the signaling stops. Your body interprets it as this area has been healed or excluded, or however we're going to gonna say that. But then down the road, there's some trigger. And in the last, uh, we'll say 9 years, I've run into a number of triggers. And we'll get Dr. Moore's triggers as well. But Lyme parasites, uh, mold exposure, renovating a home, stress, death of a family member, divorce, separation— all sorts of things will trigger the inflammatory response, if we want to say that again. Or a life event that is an infection, maybe a urinary tract infection, a pneumonia, COVID, uh, an injury, a surgery. Uh, we'll say something that's very common in my community is PCOS. It's a big problem. Endometriosis is a big problem. And for whatever reason, you know, that cascade starts again, Dr. Moore, and now you have a really, a, a heightened immune response. It's chronic in nature. It's definitely a big inflammatory cascade that happens. But for whatever reason, it's really confusing to practitioners. Not necessarily you, but just saying in general, people miss what to me is an obvious thing. So the The way I think about it is if, if you think of how an organ transplant works, a genetically identical twin can have an organ taken from their sibling and placed in them and be fine. No immunosuppression is needed because their genetics are exactly the same. If that is a non-identical twin, you need to add a level of immunosuppression. When this was initially done, it was done with whole body radiation. Obviously we don't do that anymore. And then when you went to cadaver transplants, you added azathioprine and prednisone, and that's how transplantation began. Now, when you put this device in, if there's debris from the device, breakdown of the device, a rupture of the device, we'll say a silicone device, and that comes in contact with your tissue, your T cells see it. Your T cells see it and respond to it. And now what we know is that you not only have a T cell response, you have a B cell response and a plasma cell response. You start making antibodies. So what does that sound like? That sounds like organ rejection. So that's what the latest literature shows as of July 2025 on a transcriptome analysis, which is basically what is RNA, is what's going on at the molecular level finally. So we understand like you put this in, You have this happen and your body starts to react. And some people, as you would expect, as your experience will tell you, just as mine has, some people react a lot more than others. They are very sensitive, and I'm sure you have a number of sensitive patients in your clinic, in your experience. So I don't find, just to summarize it, that hard to understand. You put something in You have acute inflammation, it goes down, people are fine, and then something happens, whatever that event is, and then it becomes a problem, right? It's not a problem until it's a problem. And then when it becomes a problem, it can be a very, very big problem that's very seemingly nebulous for my colleagues to figure out or acknowledge. And now I will let Dr. Moore, like, explain his experience with breast implant illness, because that's mine.

Yeah. You know, I just look back on my experience in practice and I, I'll just give everybody the background for me here. I started with Lyme myself. That's what drove me to doing what I'm doing. I thought I was going to be a sports med kind of doc. I was going to be working with athletes. I was a college athlete and I ended up with Lyme disease. Because of mold toxicity that led to food allergies that led to chronic illness. So like so many people with breast implant illness, you just don't see it coming. And when you start thinking about what's happening here, and I love that you went down B cells and T cells and antibodies and immune response. But let's, let's just start off with like the experience of the clients I work with because I work with so many women, like 90% of my clinic is women and many of them are dealing with complex chronic illness. What does that even mean? They feel like crap and they have no idea why and they're not getting answers and they're just told to get on antidepressant. They're just told to deal with it, you're getting older. They're gaining weight, they're feeling like crap, they're being put on bioidentical hormones, which honestly, I don't have anything against bioidentical hormones, but why do you need them at 35, 40, 45 even, right? Like, if you're 60 and 70, maybe we'll have a different kind of conversation, but What I'm saying to you listeners right now is let's take a step back. 75% of Americans are actually chronically ill. 75% over the age of 40 have a chronic condition diagnosed. Well, what's going on here? So that's kind of the start framework. Now let's look at this foreign object in the body. What happens if you eat something that's poisonous? Mercury, silicone, heavy metals. What happens if you get a cut and there's something in the cut? The body's going to react. There's going to be inflammation, is going to be irritated. Now, sometimes people are like, well, we're putting things in our bodies and I didn't react immediately. Okay, well, that's true. But at the same time, I've seen hundreds— look up your biological dentistry. People will put implants in their mouth, titanium, supposed to be innocuous, supposed to not be a problem. They'll put mercury in their mouth, supposed to be theoretically non-immune reactive. But over and over again, I have seen gums retract away from this titanium. I have had a woman— I love stories, I love telling stories because this just helps people understand. I had a woman that broke the bone in the back of her hand here. Just normal break. She was 69 years old and she went in and she got a metal plate, titanium, placed over the bone to stabilize it because she's elderly and they wanted to make sure it stabilized and grew back. Her skin started bubbling up off of that to the point where she came in to me and she's like, what the heck is going on? Because her surgeon said, well, that's not possible. That can't happen. Your body can't react like that to that substance. So she came in to me, I grabbed homeopathic 4 Titanium. It went away. She went back to her surgeon, see, this went away. He's like, oh, that's not possible. So she stopped and she's spitfire. She— I called her Senior Barbie because that's the name she gave herself. She had breast, breast cancer. They removed the breast cancer. Gave her breast implants, so she called herself Senior Barbie, and she was a Spitfire. So she goes back to the surgeon after she stops homeopathic and the skin starts bubbling up again. She bursts into his office. You're a surgeon. You can imagine what this is like. A patient bypassing your front desk goes right back into the office like, you're going to see me right now. Shows him this reaction. He's like, oh, well, I'll take that out for you after the bone stabilizes. 'Can you give me the card of the guy that gave you the homeopathic in case it ever happens again?' Which is so rare. I've seen it twice in practice. But I wanted to bring this up because you said your colleagues have a hard time recognizing breast implant illness, much less titanium, which is a foreign substance put into the body that it doesn't recognize that generates a potentially inflammatory reaction. Well, this is for a woman who didn't have a significant event. It was just a foreign substance in the body. Now, if I go into my clients that have breast implants that have had them for 5 years, that have had them for 10 years, had no issues, but then they get divorced, they move into a house with mold. Shoot, they move into a house with radon. Right now, I just sealed my basement floor because I was like, oh, I want to like finish my basement. I've been in the house for a while. So they sealed my basement and they made it a little bit more air protective so that it's higher energy efficiency. Well, my girlfriend started getting sick when she was over here. Radon spiked. Radon went up because it's now more air-controlled. There's not very much movement out.

Right.

So her body starts having irritations. Well, she's HLA-DR, a genetic type that doesn't deal with toxins very well. She's MTHFR. She doesn't methylate B vitamins very well and other things, so she doesn't detox very well, right? So it wasn't specifically a traumatic event. It wasn't an acute infection that we were aware of, but she kept getting little infections coming back and back and back after we sealed the basement. So for everybody listening, it doesn't have to be this big scary event that you're like, yeah, that, that for sure was it. It could be a move. It could be that week you had to work 100 hours at work that that just overdid your nervous system. It could be a divorce, a trauma, sure, Lyme, mold, absolutely parasites, but it creeps up on you. And then because you've had the breast implants for 10 years, well, that can't be continuing the problem. But all those antibodies that you mentioned earlier were there in the beginning, and now when the immune system flares back up, it reacclimates to the fact that there's a foreign object is the way that I word it. I know that's not the scientific words, that's not the research you're talking about words, but it kind of just remembers, hey, there's this thing here that's not supposed to be here. And because I'm already underwater in stress, I'm now going to attack everything. And until those breast implants come out, the body stays in this hyper overreactive position. And that's what I've seen in practice, why so many other people miss it. I even have in my notes, literally in my questionnaire, do you have any implants in your body? And I will document them out. I can say this, I don't immediately tell people go get your implants implants out, whatever that implant, breast, titanium, or otherwise. But it's on my checklist of this might be a thing.

Yeah, you have to keep that. And I think, you know, something that's underappreciated too, and maybe you— I'm sure you do this— is like, history is always going to tell you typically what's happening. If you just listen long enough, they'll pretty much tell you the story, right? It'll be, you know, and I'm, I constantly— I'm in Austin, Texas, and people vacation in Mexico all the time, and they'll get parasitic infection. You know, they'll go there, they'll get diarrhea, and it won't get treated. And I'm just using it as an example. Like, I have people go to Costa Rica, people go to Africa, uh, people who live in the mountains and go, you know, in a lake, whatever. You can get Giardia Like, none of this is that complicated if you sit and listen to us talk about it, but then it's not treated.

What do you think is going to happen to them if you don't treat something like Giardia? You don't treat something like Lyme, you don't treat something like Epstein-Barr. That stuff is just a burden on your body. So the wording I use in my notes is this. I say you have a stress or a burden, and I just— I'm a gym guy, right? So like, I think about the bar on your back, or I think about carrying a backpack. I mean, let's all think back to elementary school when we— or middle school, high school, you got a book in your backpack. And I know for the young people, this doesn't make sense. They're on an iPad these days. But imagine you got this big old backpack on and you drop in there life stress and toxins and bad food choices and that bad breakup you had, but then you drop in there Giardia. That's like a 100-pound weight. How good are you at walking up the stairs now? You're not. And you're going to start hurting and your body's not going to be able to respond to things well. And I see that all the time. It's the burden of time and breast implants for the healthiest of individuals, to me, is a burden. It doesn't mean it's a burden you can't handle. It's a burden. And then at some point it may become the burden that you can't handle when they break or leak or there's other— too many other things going on.

Right. Um, the— I like the burden of time. That's a great expression because, you know, you can't outrun a bad diet, you can't pick your parents, but I like the burden of time. I, I may have to steal that from you, from, uh, for, for use. Um, that is a great, uh, way to think about it because for sure you know, when people come in, I sit there and I just listen. And I just had somebody in the office, you know, before we hopped on, and she's had this autoimmune thing they can't figure out for a long period of time. So she said, and in 2017, I had my ruptured silicone implant changed out to some new ones. And I said, oh, okay. So I'm going to explain it to you this way, just to go back to how we discussed it before, is like, if you have all that material and which standard therapy would have not been to remove the capsular material at that time, that means you left the tissue that was exposed to the silicone, the ruptured silicone, in place. So that means no matter how thoroughly I cleanse something, you know better than I that you can't get all that debris out, and that just leaves something to stimulate your T cells and just have ongoing immune system activation because there's just no way to remove that. And so the reason I talk about capsulectomy and, and do it is— that's one reason, you know, you're never going to get all of that out if you just leave it there and like wipe it out, rinse it out, whatever, you know, things you do. Uh, as well as, you know, we showed that 29% have bacterial contamination. And that's just, you know, throughout life. If you had a knee implant, a hip implant, dental implant, defibrillator, a spinal cord stimulator, breast implant, whatever— if you got a UCI and you got back to Remic, or if you got a colonoscopy and got back to Remic, or if you got pneumonia and got back to Remic, that stuff gets into your bloodstream and then attaches to the surfaces of those devices because the devices are not alive, they can't be surveilled. And then your body sees that, and Cutibacterium actus and Staph epidermidis readily produce biofilm. We know this, it's not new. And those things in the breast implant world, there's this oxidative reaction that happens between the oleic acid, the fatty acid in the breast, and the biofilm. And that oxylipin, which is produced goes downstream to stimulate and stimulate and ultimately change and cause macrophage polarization? Long story short is, what do you think is responsible for all these ramp-up in systems or symptoms? If you've been listening to this podcast, you know I take these conversations seriously, and some discussions simply don't belong in short clips or public comment sections. That's why I created Dr. Rob's Circle. It's a private community for those who want a deeper level of education and dialogue. Inside Dr. Rob's Circle, I share extended clinical insights, structured guidance around surgical planning and recovery, and conversations that go well beyond what I post publicly. This is a more focused environment. It's more thoughtful, more detailed, more direct. If you value careful evaluation and want access to a higher level of discussion, I invite you to apply to join us. You can learn more at drrobscircle.com. I look forward to continuing the conversation with you inside.

Well, Doc, let me— you just gave me an idea. Maybe you'll like this. My brain— my dad's a construction worker, poured concrete my whole life, and I was a personal trainer. I was going through school. So I love to break things down and make it like just as simple as possible. So to me, when you, when you mentioned breast implants and leaving a capsule in and having these toxins and this bacteria on there, this is like wearing a shoe 2 sizes too small. Please, anyone listening right now, think about going for a hike up a mountain, walk around New York City with a shoe that's 2 sizes too small. What's going to happen? It's going to rub the back of your heel until it's raw and you get a— it cuts, right? Like, that's what happens when you have a capsule left in the body. It's rubbing, it's wearing you down, it's pissing your body off. And sure, if you have everything else in life perfect and you're not walking too much, you can get away with it. Like, if I have to put on my girlfriend's shoes, her little slippers, little cow slippers, and walk out to get the mail, who cares? Like, it's not that big a deal. It doesn't fit, but like, I can make it happen. And that's where a lot of people are living, is their body's strong enough in the moment to deal with it. But then as soon as you say, okay, well, I'm going to go and I'm going to wear these to go shopping for a day for for the Christmas holiday or whatever with the family, that ain't gonna work. And, and if you leave the capsule in, you're just leaving this, this festering problem.

Yeah, I know, I, I— your analogy is a, a very visual one because everybody's had that irritation. Everybody's worn a new pair of shoes or played in a new pair of shoes and got, uh, a wound from it. A blister from it, a breakdown from it. And, you know, until you remove it, it can't heal. If you just kept doing the same thing over and over again, you'd eventually get down to your tendon or your bone if you just kept doing the same thing. So if you can't feel it, it would just get— it would keep happening to you. And I, I often say, Dr. Moore, that I think this problem would be super easy if everybody showed up to your office with a big red, swollen, painful breast.

Yeah. Yeah, that would be so much easier. That would make my life easier too, because I'm negotiating, like, honestly with women who— they've got them put in for a reason. They wanted them put in for a reason, right? They don't want to necessarily remove them, most of the people I'm talking to. And so you've got to just be really careful with You know, it's a big deal and it's expensive to have them removed. So when I'm talking to women, I'm just like, hey, like, we'll put this on the list. We're going to look at, you know, is that a realistic thing that we have to do that to get well? And sometimes— and I'll just give a story. I had a woman, we worked together for 4 or 5, 6 months. We saw some improvements, but we just hit a rock wall. We could not get past— we couldn't get past it. And there were a few symptoms that were just continually getting worse. And it was— it was symptoms of MS. Like there was development of progression of autoimmune conditions. We saw demyelination of neurons that were continuing while a lot of other things that we were working on were getting better, like in the gut and different places that we could work. But I could not shut down this autoimmune path, which I have seen successfully reduce hundreds of times. And I just said, look, I don't know what else to tell you. Your mold tests are negative. Your Lyme tests now are negative. Your SIBO and your strep and your staph and your Your everything is negative. You've done all the work, but there's one thing that you haven't done. And I mean, she was crying on the call. Like, I felt for her. She did not want to take them out. She identified with herself with them in. And, you know, it's a tough conversation. She did get them out. She called me about 2 months after they came out so we could get back going. And those symptoms were 80% better. The MS symptoms had regressed by about 80%. And I mean, she had tried everything before that. And I was just like, I was like, it makes me feel a lot better when it's successful, by the way, Doc. Like when they go in and they do that and then they get a win, I'm like, all right, well, let's talk about the larger thing that we're not really—

you highlighted the concern, right? Not being enough, not looking a certain way, not feeling a certain way, the big appearance change that slows down like getting this taken off the list, so to speak, like you were describing. And there's obviously resource constraints, travel constraints if you're coming to see me in Austin, Texas. There's all sorts of things that crop up. So one of the things I'll talk about is simultaneous fat transfer for patients who are undergoing explant surgery and like how to think about that. So fat transfers— and, and we'll, we'll try to approach it very, very clear. So everybody understands. Everybody should understand, like, their body fat, their lean body mass, um, relative to, uh, bone density and everything. So with like a DEXA scan or InBody scan or something to help them understand their body mass index and proportion that they have of muscle mass to fat. And so that's my baseline. Like, when you come in and you want to have an explant and discuss a fat transfer, we need to understand Where are you starting with from in terms of lean body mass? Because I've done several thousand fat transfers, I know where to go get the fat. I have tons of experience doing that, all the instrumentation that is the, the best in, you know, class. What changes, Dr. Moore, is the patient in front of me. One, do they have enough fat? Are they healthy enough? Are they free from mold? Are they eating a proper diet? Are they not taking a GLP-1? Because everybody's now taking a GLP-1 to make my life more miserable, basically to not make my life more miserable. That's a bit too far to try to lower their inflammation. They're microdosing, which is not a thing. As you know, there is no such thing as microdosing. There's dosing and then there's taking things and trying to see what happens. So basically what I do is I get them prepared a particular way to then execute the steps of the procedure. And, and then when we recover them, our goal is to keep them on the appropriate macros but keep their BMI like it was pre-op or slightly above, because if it drops even a single point below, you can lose as much as 40 to 50 to 60% of the fat.

Wow.

And that's really the game right there.

I think that alone, that statement, I've never heard. And I've talked to a lot of women that have gone to a lot of docs. And just making sure someone understands that so they have a point to just reference is amazing.

Well, I want— first of all, I don't ever, you know, try to oversell, overpromise, over anything, anybody. I just want you to understand, like, this is the best available information. You have to make the best informed decision. So for somebody in my position to say fat transfers don't work is total bullshit. Of course they work. That's the original filler. So it's your own genetic material. Of course it should work given these sets of, you know, we'll just say criteria. Like, we want the patient to be in good health. So your patient that you worked on and got all the symptoms resolved except for some of the autoimmune system symptoms Lips, we would talk to her and say, look, given your, you know, current state of health and your toxicity report— because we use Vibrant Wellness all the time, as you know— this is what we recommend. And we can do this, meaning a fat transfer at the same time, or we'll delay it based on, you know, our interpretation of your results and how you're doing from a health standpoint. And, you know, I didn't mention hormonal balance. Like, you have to have a level of hormonal balance. If you have like out-of-whack estrogen and suppressed testosterone, it's not going to be the right situation. You have to get things in order. And you think of like younger patients, so the patients who undergo— and maybe you have or have not heard of this procedure— the Brazilian butt lift. So it's a fat transfer to the butt. Now I don't hear a lot of people complaining about their butt lifts failing, right? We don't, we don't hear that they lost half of their butt lift and now they're lopsided. But all the time I hear like half of the fat transfer to the breast goes away. Why do we hear that? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And so my, my thought of that, you know, personally, is the population having Brazilian butt lifts is younger, so they're overall going to be in a better state of health typically. 2, their hormonal balance is going to be better, of course, because they haven't gone through maybe having children yet, or maybe having symptoms of perimenopause or menopause. So of course that makes more sense. And then 2, you know, the, the thing that maybe, uh, is different is for a fat transfer to even cause a visual change in a buttock, one cheek has to accommodate at least a minimum, in my opinion, of 500 cc's. So in a breast, like, my minimum is 100 cc's and max is probably in the, you know, I've gotten 400 per in a side, but that's in a larger patient who's had, uh, pregnancies and breastfed and, and skin stretch. So you have a different space, like, in terms of placement, you know, volume that you can place. And those are like the, the overall, like, the things, right? So the difference between your butt and the, the chest is the breast tissue is between the muscle and the fat. And really, short of that, there aren't all these huge differences except for how much volume you'd accommodate. So like, when I think about, I'm like, of course it makes sense that you should be able to do it. Why shouldn't you be able to do it and execute it the same way? The thing is, like, for whatever reason, from an experience standpoint or just a, you know, a lack of confidence maybe in that, you don't feel like you can execute those steps. But otherwise, it should logically make sense, and you should be able to execute it all the time. And we feel very comfortable now with our, you know, programming using, you know, I wrote the book about the SHARP method, and what we do at our clinic, and we have hyperbaric oxygen and red light therapy, lymphatic massage, and, uh, the Human Regenerator and all these things. But in reality, like, proper patient selection and preparation ends up dictating the outcomes.

So just going getting an explant surgery with a fat transfer is— with no real follow-up is a poor decision. Getting an actual care plan associated to a fat transfer because I hear the same thing. I hear the same thing you've heard of lots of loss. Is it worth it? Is it something that we should be doing? It's always a question mark. And I've heard very little out of any surgeon to come out and just say, you know, yes, it can be, it can be effective. I heard that a lot, but how it can be effective. I've heard stem cells and PRP, but I've never heard, you know, let's make sure your hormones and your body fat stay at a certain, certain amount. Is there a length of time that you see, like, hey, if you maintain a higher BMI for 6 months or for a year, that you're likely to then be able to modify a little bit?

Yeah, that study I was quoting, it was the first 6 months.

For 6 months?

Yeah, I would go a year. And I tell people not to do IR sauna or steam sauna or anything thermogenic like that, just because that coupled to things like HIIT, cycling, running, caloric deficit creation somehow will obviously change your BMI typically. And then, you know, if you're doing this for an appearance change, then let's exercise some judgment.

Yeah.

And do it properly. If you can't get on board with what I just said, I'm not your guy, which is fine.

Like you've been explained, like, what should be the best information possible given my experience, which is what everyone should be looking for and everyone should be, you know, finding that expert. And that's the thing with this situation, with breast implant illness, with capsulectomies, with fat transfers, there's a cost to it. Let's find the good people. Let's find the right people. And I say the same thing about remediators for mold, inspectors for a house. Like, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. It's not just out there that there's a way, right? Like, I oftentimes, I have had to build out so many guides like, you need to find a mold inspector that does this, this, and this. Well, and now I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I need to build out a breast implant illness surgeon how-to, fat transfer how-to, at least from my experience, so that people can understand who to look for, which I just refer to you all the time, but sometimes Austin is not an option. So, um, if it's not an option, do this.

Well, right. I think it's more about understanding, you know, and, uh, I'm sure many people have mimicked what you do, right? So, and that's great too. Like, I, I don't mind people copying what I'm either trying to say or the work we've done because it'll help patients. Make better decisions. That's bottom line, is people have to make the best possible decision based on available information. The problem that pisses me off is when people make decisions based on limited information or disinformation or the wrong information. Like, that's just not a good place to make a decision. Or they get told something that makes no sense, like explant without capsulectomy. To me, makes no logical sense.

Why would a surgeon do an explant without a capsulectomy? What's, what's the whole—

they're claiming that symptoms resolve with you leaving the capsule in, or they say the capsule dissolves, which is total nonsense. Scar tissue does not resolve. We're taught that in training, but it's not the case. If you've ever reoperated on a patient, you know that is not the case. You're being disingenuous. You just are. Scar tissue doesn't magically go away. Especially if it's thickened, especially if you have a rupture, especially if you've had an infection, which I already told you basically 29% of people do.

Yeah, well, I mean, talk to surgeons that do any and everything else. They literally go into knees to remove scar tissue all the time from previous surgeries that are continuing to create inflammation, irritation. Like, we hear this not just associated to breast implants, we hear this to the knee, to shoulder, to whatever, because It's there, right?

Caps Lock to me, to me, I seriously don't understand the logic behind anybody sitting there and saying that it shouldn't be done or that it's unsafe or that somebody like me is creating fear by saying you need to have that done. Like, if you just listen to me, All I'm saying is like, if you have— what I've found personally is 29% of the patients have bacterial contamination. That's not, that's not refutable. Like, it's, it's published. 690 consecutive cases show it. Like, that's not a small number.

No.

And if you have, based on that study done in Denmark that I I talked about if you have this picture where your body's rejecting this like an organ transplant, and that makes perfect sense in your patient who was having MS symptoms and they have an explant encapsulectomy. What do you— you said 80% of her symptoms went away. Well, that makes sense, right? So, and then there's X, like we don't know X yet, but I would love— I hope I'm still alive the day I can send off some scar tissue to a commercially available lab to do an RNA analysis to know exactly what's going on in that specimen at that time. Because then, I mean, it's like fait accompli for me at that point. One, I already know 20 hours, 29% have this kind of bacterial component. And then if I knew at the RNA level what was actually happening, like what T-cell, B-cell, plasma cell levels are actually there, that would be very satisfying for me as a provider to then explain to the patients, like, okay, you have this and this. Now we've taken these steps, or we recommend these steps, and we expect this outcome. And that's— people should be able to understand that. If you're going to get an augmentation, you should know that in these certain circumstances, this can happen.

Yeah, it'd be great if before women got— well, I shouldn't just say women, but before we get any procedure, whether that be a titanium tooth, an augmentation, a— I mean, I'll even take it to Botox. We go and get a genetic test for HLA-DR and THFR and all the other genetic types that can make you more vulnerable. And you just say, hey, like, here's, here's some things that may put you at risk. You can do this, but like, pay attention. This puts your body a little bit more at risk than another. And that's just informed consent and education. That's just making better due diligence for everyone because nobody wants to have chronic illness. If I told you, you know, you're going to be bedridden and having body pain and brain fog, do you still want your breast implants? They're going to be like, what?

Exactly. And I think that's where we're going to end today because I think, you know, this is still going to be an open debate. I I really appreciate Dr. Moore coming on. He's fabulous. He's in Kansas City. Tell us where everybody can follow you. I know you got a big Instagram following.

Yeah, Dr. Jaben Moore, spelled J-A-B as in boy, A-N Moore, M-O-O-R-E. I'm on all the platforms, but my biggest one is Instagram.

All right, thanks so much, Dr. Moore.

Thank you.