58. From BigLaw Dropout to Creating a Life That’s Lit with Ryan Spence

That moment of being on holiday with your family again, having to work again, and it being Christmas and being in Bali and not being able to completely switch off and enjoy it, I just had to say to myself, like, when does this end? Like this, this, this, this has to change. Still not knowing how it would change, but I think that that was a catalyst to like, really start to make some shifts, challenge myself a bit more and see if through those challenges and through doing things a little bit differently, other things would come up for me.

Hello and welcome to the Side Hustle Club podcast. My name is Cheryl Lau and I am your go to Side Hustle coach, helping you build a coaching business that creates 5 to 10k months even on top of a 9 to 5. I deeply believe it is possible for us to excel in both our career and business while still making time for what matters most to us in life. And to do this, we are going to focus on doing the bare minimum in your business, but doing each thing really, really well. And that is how I've been able to scale my coaching business to its first six figures and now scaling to multiple six, even while doing a PhD. On this podcast, we're going to talk all about growing a profitable and sustainable business, thought leadership, as well as your mindset and life as a side hustler. I'm so excited for you to dive into this podcast and let's get the conversation going. Sounds good. Awesome. Let's get to work.

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Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the side Hustle Club podcast today. I'm really excited because we have a guest episode today with Ryan Spence, who I connected with on Instagram and I really wanted Ryan to hop on our podcast today because he has a certain life experience or life story that I personally really relate to and basically. So let me just give a very, really quick short intro. So Ryan is a life coach, a certified high performance coach, and a yoga teacher who helps lawyers and corporate professionals gain greater clarity, confidence and courage in their lives and careers. And it was during a Christmas holiday in Bali that really sent Ryan on a personal development quest that ultimately took him from big law lawyer to big law dropout. And that's what I really want to dive more into today. Without further ado, Ryan, could you please tell us a bit more about who you are and what you do?

Sure. Thanks, Sara, for having me. I'm yeah, excited to get into it, but as you said, you did all for me. I'm Ryan Spence. I help lawyers and corporate folk find the clarity, confidence and courage they need. The clarity, confidence, and courage were three things which, looking back on my journey from where I was to where I am now, were really key in helping me figure things out. There's a lot of noise in the personal development space, a lot of things we can talk about in habits, but when you distill it down, for me, they were the three pillars. So that's what I focus on. And moving from lethargy to lit, it's again, looking back, I was trying to think how I felt when I would go into an office and sit down each day and really not feel it. And the more that I kind of worked through that, the more that I felt that, that, that. That sort of lack of motivation, that sort of lack of productivity, that lack of focus wasn't down to me being lazy. It was just not being into what I was doing. It didn't light me up. And when you look at the dictionary definition of lethargy, it's kind of what it means. And let is just when you have that feeling, when you do those things that really make you feel amazing. And it can be that first sip of coffee in the morning, or for me, it's cruising around in my car, windows down, singing really loudly. That's. That's when you feel lit. And yes, it's not that you're going to feel like that every moment of every single day, but it's working towards a life that has more of those moments where that. Those moments become the norm rather than the exception. So, yeah, that's what I do.

I love that. And I think. Okay, I don't even know where to start for this episode because there's so many things I want to talk more about with you. First of all, thank you for the introduction. I think, you know, one of the first things I ever really paid attention to when I first stumbled on Instagram was the hashtag the Big Law Dropout. And I think that was really the inspiration behind what you currently do. So why don't we start there first? Would you mind sharing what this hashtag means to you and maybe the story behind it?

Sure. So the term the Big Law dropout actually came from a poem that I wrote shortly after I left Big Law. I left. And I think, like a lot of things, when you've done something for so long, there's a period of sort of looking back and dissecting and sort of shedding layers, and that's still going on now. But one of the things that happened for me was suddenly I realized that the creative side of me that had been buried for so long was suddenly unleashed and let free. So that resulted in a lot of writing. Out of that came a poem which was titled the Rhyme of the Big Law Dropout. And it's kind of loosely based upon my time in Big Law. Sort of a canter through from the beginning to sort of the very end and leaving. And what I liked about the phrase when I thought about it, is that the term dropout has a negative connotation. It's looked upon as someone who's a bit of a slacker, who's a little bit lazy, who can't stick to anything. And I thought, well, no, because I definitely identify myself as the Big Law dropout. I dropped out of Big Law, but not for any of those reasons, but because it wasn't serving me. So it's kind of a reclamation of the term really. It's reclaiming the term dropout to mean somebody who has recognized that something isn't serving them, who is self aware enough to know that and has left that situation to then go after what it is that they want. And for me, anybody who is a dropout in that scenario should be celebrated and should wear that as a badge of honor. And so, yeah, I took the hashtag and ran with it. Although I must say that I was still very new to Instagram and had no idea really what hashtags did. But I saw, oh, you can create your own, I'll create it. And like, like yourself, a lot of people have kind of resonated with that and really picked up on that. So, yeah, it's still something I go by now.

I love that. And I think for my audience who is somewhat familiar with my journey, they would know that I was a law school dropout. And that's why when I first saw you on the Instagrams, I was like, oh my goodness, this is so bad ass. This is so cool because I really deeply resonated with the message you're, you're sharing and you still share to this day. I think it's been a year since we first connected. But yeah, your message is super strong and it's super clear to your people. They know what you're all about. But I think, and I really love the point that you mentioned about being a dropout had a lot of connotations to it and some of them not so nice. Not so nice. I think that, you know, if you're making decisions in a way that serves you and you're taking full responsibility for it, then what's the problem? And I think that's something that we might unpack a little bit more in this episode as well. But I actually want to take it back a little bit further and go back to pre big law dropout. Ryan, how did you even end up as a lawyer in the first place? Tell us more about that.

Well, if I sum it up in one word, it would be money. So expand on that a little bit. I always wanted to work in the music business. I always wanted to be be on stage. I wanted to be behind the scenes as well. I wanted to do all of that. That was my dream, that was my passion. And I ran with that for quite a long time, much to the, to the dismay of my parents. But I ended up working in the music business for around four years. And I loved my time because it didn't feel like work. It was like everything was all and consuming and it was just what I really wanted to do. But the problem was that money was inconsistent. I was living in London. London's not a cheap place to live. Friends of mine were starting to get graduate jobs, starting to actually earn a salary, starting to go on holidays and do the things that normal people do. And my life was very much tied to music. I went to great parties and great gigs and had great trips away, but it was all tied to work. And there came a point where I was like, do I want to wake up in 10 years time and still be in this awful flat in West London making no money on the hope that one day this big break will happen? And looking around the industry, the lawyers and the accountants always got paid first. That's what I saw. And I was no good at numbers, so law was the only other option. And so that's what happened. I left to go and do a law degree. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed my law degree. I came out with a really good degree. And I hadn't planned to end up in the world of finance. I planned to go back to the music business and be a music lawyer. But yeah, I got seduced by the salaries that the big law firms paid. Being in these big glass, steel, gleaming buildings, and also the possibility of being able to live and work abroad. That was a real big thing to me because it wasn't something that was on my radar. So yeah, I said goodbye to the world of music and ended up in a big firm in the city of London, training for two years and then eventually stumbling into the world of finance, which was something I never even knew about before. So yeah, it was all new. But yeah, money was the overriding Factor, which is, in hindsight, isn't the best reason to go into something.

Yeah. And I love that you shared it. So, honestly, because I'm pretty sure a lot of people listening to this episode have, and myself included, have at some point made a decision, a big decision, career wise, that were based on reasons that, in hindsight, maybe not our favorite reasons, but hey, it served us at some point back then. And I think that's good enough of a reason. But I think where things will start to shift is, you know, for. For you and myself included, is when we start to realize that those decisions that we made previously may not really serve us anymore. And how can you start to realign with your greater purpose? And I think that's something that we'll talk a lot more about in this episode. But yeah, you know, when you first started to have that inkling that maybe Big Law is not for you, and you started having thoughts about leaving this whole field entirely, you know, what. What did that look like? Was, did you talk to peers around you? Did people have thoughts about it? Like, what really happened at that point in your life?

Well, I think the, the inkling, the first sort of signs were after my first son was born. And, you know, you start to have a family, you start to kind of think about how you want your life to be, how you want to be around your kid, that kind of thing. And it wasn't looking like that was very conducive with the life that I was living, the way that I was working. But like anything, I sort of kept suppressing that voice because what else am I going to do? By that point, I'd been in Singapore a year or two, so I'd been a lawyer for probably six or seven years. Money was good, the career trajectory looked good. Yeah, what am I going to do? So I just kind of kept my head down and that voice kind of continued to talk to me and continued to get louder. And I think again, looking back and unpacking everything, what kept me was I just didn't think I could do anything else. My beliefs were so limited. I caught it being trapped in this mental cell of self limitation. Like, you're inside this room and you can't see a way out. You know, there is an outside, but you can't really see it and you can't imagine what that looks like. And so, yes, I mean, a lot of people complain about their life in Big Law. And, you know, when you have colleagues come in and you shut the door and you kind of have a little bit of moan about something or other, but the thought of actually stepping out to do something else just didn't seem like a possibility for somebody like me. And so I stuck with it and continued to get more and more miserable and feel more and more unfulfilled. And that culminated in what you mentioned in the Intro was Christmas 2018 and the trip to Bali. And that moment, that moment of being on holiday with your family again, having to work again, and it being Christmas and being in Bali and. And not being able to completely switch off and enjoy it. I just had to say to myself, like, when does this end? Like, this, this. This. This has to change. Still not knowing how it would change, but I think that that was a catalyst to, like, really start to make some shifts, challenge myself a bit more and see if through those challenges and through doing things a little bit differently, other things would come up for me. So, yeah, it wasn't a slow process. Well, it was a slow process. It took a long time. But that was why I'd say limiting belief was the biggest factor in that.

I don't know what it is about what you just said, but, like, something in me, like, it just, like, wanted to shed a tear. Like, I'm not even. I'm not trying to be dramatic here, but, like, I think it's because it really hit home for me, I think, and I'm going to confidently say that for a lot of people listening to this episode right now, they are going to resonate with this because they are likely in some sort of career or life position where it just may not be worth it anymore to continue down this particular career or path that they have previously chosen, likely because of external reasons that made them want to choose this path. And I think the reason why, what you just shared about, like, you were on that trip in Bali with your family, and that wave of, like, I'm assuming, emotion or realization kind of hit you, that made me feel some type of way just now. So I really felt that. And yeah, I'm pretty sure someone listening to this right now can feeling the exact same way. But I guess, you know, after that Bali trip, I'm assuming you went back to work and everything. What were some internal challenges that you might have faced after that trip? So between the trip and making the big decision to be a big law dropout, what were the, if any, internal conflicts that you might have had to navigate?

Well, I think the conflicts were still there. I mean, just because I'd made that decision, it doesn't mean the limiting beliefs went away. But what it did do was it started me on this personal development journey. I had no idea what I was doing. But you read a big book here, watch a YouTube video there. But for me, I went into 2019 thinking I need to challenge myself because going back to that term, lethargy, just sitting every day just feeling more and more miserable and more and more unfulfilled. I was like, I need something to kind of jump me out of that. And so I did what may seem like a, you know, I mean, not the most straightforward task, but I signed up for a boxing match. And so I spent three months training for a, for a boxing match in Singapore. So they have a big charity event every year and it's called White Collar boxing. And that was fantastic because, yes, there was the physical side of it. I got in the best shape of my life. I learned a new skill. But having something else to focus on and having a why that is, I want to go, I want to perform on the night and I don't want to get knocked out in front of my friends. You know, I mean, was something to work towards. And that kind of kept me going. It kept me focused, you know, I mean, I stopped drinking, my diet got gone in check. I was training sort of six days a week, sometimes twice a day. I was really, really focused and I was like, this is, this is what it feels like to be doing something that you're passionate about. And I hadn't really felt like that since I'd worked in music. But I hadn't realized, you know, because I just sort of drifted through law making good money and hadn't really realized that actually that wasn't lighting me up. So once I'd done that, I continued training and then that led me back to yoga, which I'd been doing off and on. I then went on a yoga retreat which was just life changing. Came back from that yoga retreat just with a completely different frame of mind. It's like, I'm really going to try and make this work, whatever that looks like. I'm really going to try and change this. I changed myself, I became vegan and I got back into my practice. And so, yeah, the limiting beliefs were still there, but I was then starting to at least become more self aware about what was going on with me and how I could potentially change that and what potentially I might do if I was to leave. And yeah, I was still locked a little bit because everything that I looked at as an alternative was still law. At least the things that I would say out loud. But at least I was now starting to actively consider what an alternative life could look like.

You brought up such a great point and I think the biggest takeaway I just got from what you just shared was sometimes, yes, external. Like changing the external situation. Yes, but also the internal piece. Because no matter what you change externally, if you don't change the way you think about yourself, the way you think about success, your relationship with who you are, what's like nothing can really change or it's not going to be a sustainable change. I think that was a really great point I got from what you just shared. So I mean, you know, how did you end up in the space of coaching? So from big law and then you went on yoga retreat and then you did boxing, how did you end up in coaching?

Good question. I say that I didn't, I didn't find coaching. Coaching found me. I hadn't planned to be a coach at all. I had known some friends who were trained to be coaches and knew a little bit about it, but not a huge amount. But I never had a coach myself. And I guess it's just a series of events. Once you. I believe a lot in manifestation and in the universe providing what you need at any given time. So I think that once I come back from that yoga retreat in particular and open myself to the possibility of that being an alternative, things started presenting themselves. So then completely out of the blue, in early December, I got pulled into a meeting and was asked to go to London for two months to work with a client who needed help. But also in that meeting it was said that there may be layoffs coming in the new year. And if that conversation happened a year ago, it would have been a major panic. But for me I was just like, this is like literally the best outcome. Because what that would mean is that I wouldn't have to be stressing about what am I going to do, what job am I going to get. I could actually just have some time to breathe. So I was like, amazing. I get to go to London and have space to myself. I mean, knowing that I can come back and potentially have the space to breathe. And that trip to London then got me connected with an ex colleague of mine who was in London at the time we had dinner. She had was doing her life coach training, talking about my situation. She was like, oh, it sounds like coaching could help you. I mean, I could coach you if you want to give it a go. And so I was like, yeah, because I knew her, I knew she understood my situation. And so I started coaching and again As I said before, for the first two sessions, I was still very much. She asked that question, if you could do anything when there was no object, nothing. I mean, you'd have to think logically, what would you do? And I've still got the notebook where I listed five different things which were all to do with law. I could go to another firm, I could go in house, I could do this, I could do that. And it wasn't until session three. And I don't know if it was because I just felt like I was more comfortable with her or what it was, but from out of nowhere, I just felt myself saying, I want to do something in yoga and wellness. I want to help people like me. And then once I said that, it was like the sky opened up and all the weight lifted off. And I was like, actually, I don't have to go back. And there was chances to go to other firms, there was interviews, there was recruiters calling and that kind of thing. But I just decided naturally, I'm not going to go back. I'm not. It would be easy to go and go and get another role, but I'm not going to do that. So that made it easy. And I left in February 2020. I knew I was going to do my yoga teacher training, but then Covid happened, so that got delayed. But I discovered this whole world I didn't know existed of the online world, coaching, online courses, the creativity. And so I didn't know. I still didn't know how. I just thought that I would teach yoga to people in the corporate, and through that, I would help them sort of find themselves and go off and do what they wanted. But I didn't. I didn't know the how. That's all. I kind of knew that that's what I wanted to do. And then, yeah, coaching just kind of happened. The more that I spoke to people who I was teaching yoga to, I then started a podcast which interviewed people who were in the corporate world, had had a major life event, and through yoga, kind of come through it. Through those conversations, I was getting asked to kind of speak to friends of friends who were in jobs that they didn't like. Those conversations were going really well for the people I was spe to. And I also really enjoyed them. And so I thought. And a few people had said, you should be a coach. I was like, okay, let me sit down and just spill my brain of all the things I had to do to get from where I was to where I am now. And through that brain spill, I kind of Kind of gave the loose format of a, of a sort of six week coaching program. And I mentioned it to a couple of people just to kind of get their view on what they thought. And both of them were like, I want to go through it. Will you, will you coach me? Will you do this with me? And so I did and took them back through and it was fantastic. They got great transformations and clarity from it. And I just knew then, okay, this is what I want to do. I want to coach. Because that was so rewarding to me and that meaning that I was looking for, which I wasn't getting in big law, I found it in coaching. So that's what happened.

Incredible. Incredible. And you know, one thing that I'm actually really curious about is, you know, so you shared how getting coached has kind of changed your life. And now I'm really curious to know how would you say your coaching has changed the lives of your clients. Could you touch on that?

Sure. So I guess if I sort of look at the clients that I've worked with and the changes that they've made, there's a couple that really stick out. So one of the early ones is actually one of the ones who went through the six week program. She was, she was really successful in what she did, really good, worked in finance, was a trained lawyer, worked in finance and was great. But as we dug down into what it was that really mattered to her, what was important, what her values were, she found for herself that she could stay doing that job and be very successful and make a lot of money and can kind of continue. I mean, they loved her, she was great at what she did. But actually family was important to her. She was living away from her family, they were in another country. She wanted to sort of go get married and have kids one day and she realized that that wasn't going to happen where she was, both where she was living and doing the job that she was doing. And so she, she left, she left the job, she left the country, moved back to where her family was and was just a lot happier. And beyond that, lots of other things came out that she kind of thought about doing or was passionate about, but hadn't really voiced to anybody before. And I think the biggest thing that I see clients take away is this suddenly this belief, this belief in themselves is this sort of trusting, this, this knowing that they can figure it out. Because I think that we all have dreams and ideas and goals, but we suppress them because we're told that this is the way you have to do things that's that's kind of not really life, that's not real life, that's not reality. And so actually verbalizing those goals in and of itself is a powerful thing. So when they verbalize in the session, because then it's like you're hearing yourself say it, then once you verbalize it, you can then start to work on sort of visualizing it and sort of working out the steps of kind of how you're going to kind of do that or move there or whatever. Yeah, I mean that one is particularly powerful. Another one was someone who was working again, really successful in a big tech role, but hated her job, was really struggling, thought she wanted to leave, now is still in that role, but has kind of found something on the side of that which really lights her up and has sort of developed the tools and strategies to balance the two, to manage work in a way that doesn't drain her in the way that it did and to create boundaries that allow her to really focus on what it is she wants to do outside. She's going to get a new trainings and new certifications in the fitness space because that's what, that's what really mattered to her. And she's better at her family. Do you know what I mean? She's, she's having a better relationship with her family. So I don't think you can underestimate the power of coaching. I think the problem sometimes is, particularly when you're not a business coach or a coach that has tangibles that you can measure, it's people understanding the value that they're going to get when they don't already have that feeling. But I think if you can get people there, and obviously that's my job as a coach, is to try and communicate that if you can get people there and they can kind of start to see how life could be different for them, then that's when the magic happens.

Yeah, I think the biggest thing I just got from what you just said is actually going back to one thing you shared at the beginning of the episode which is going towards a life that is lit. So that's kind of why I just picked up from what you just said is you basically help your clients literally like get to a life that's lit. And sometimes it may involve changing the external things like maybe job related things, but sometimes it also involves more, more likely than not it's actually the inner thing that needs to be changed first. So yeah, I mean I have heard you talk about, you know, the three Cs to going from Lethargy to a life that's like. Could you tell us a bit more about that concept that you. That you've coined?

Sure. So, yeah, I call it the three Cs or the triple C. Triple C method. And effectively, it's the pillars that underpin my coach. I think clarity, for me is key, and there's three steps to clarity. So it's clarity as to who you are. So that's where it comes down to your values and what's important to you and what lights you up. And there's clarity as to what you want. What do you want your life to look like? What's the vision of your life? And then it's clarity as to why you want that. If you had the thing that you want, what would that mean for you? How would your life be different? Because I think once you've got that clarity, that then helps to inform you, it becomes easy to make decisions. Because if somebody offers you a job that detracts from that, it's easier to say no. Or if somebody asks you to do something that takes you away from that, it's easier to say no. So that's why I say that that is the key component. Then when you've got that clarity, I think confidence is the next step, because a lot of us lack confidence in different ways at different times. And that confidence, for me, is manifesting itself in the belief that you can get the thing that you want, that that is a reality for you, that it is achievable, and it's also trusting that you can figure it out. I think a lot of us, and particularly lawyers, like you, want to have a plan. Everything has to be linear. You need to know exactly how you're going to get to where you mean to get to. But actually, life isn't like that. Entrepreneurship most certainly isn't like that. You kind of have to start to actually figure it out. So it's trusting that you can do that and that you can make mistakes, you can get things wrong, and it'll be okay, and that will inform where you go next. And then the final C is courage. It's taking action. There's a loop which I talk about, which is information, inspiration, action. We're surrounded by information. You know, when I was on my start on my journey, there was books, there was. There was YouTube, there were Google searches. You know what I mean? And you're taking in all of this information, and you get inspired by someone's story, a few people's stories. But taking action, that's the final Step. And it's the step that a lot of people don't get to because it can be very hard because either you've taken on so much information that you don't actually know which strategy to follow, or you're just going out of your comfort zone and getting uncomfortable. And that. That's very difficult. It's helping people get that courage to then start to take action. And it's circular because as you step up a level, those things change and things will come up for you and you have to kind of keep going back and sort of reaffirming, okay, clarity. What is it that I want? Because that may change as you kind of start to do something. You may figure out, actually, this isn't for me, but this bit is. So maybe I'm going to go this way. So the questions that you have to keep asking yourself, and there are lots of other things around coaching and the things that you delve into, but I think if you can get those three things and keep those three things so front of mind, that's going to help you get started on getting to where you want to be.

Yeah. And I think just, I guess follow up a little bit on what you just shared. So from what I understand is that after we have the clarity, confidence and courage. How I like to look at it, is that coaching, like the value of coaching, is really helping you just become a happier, healthier person who actually like their life. Right.

Yeah.

I think what you just shared is like with if your signature framework, the triple Cs, and then helping them work towards a life that's lit and very personalized to them, because everyone's version of like a lit life is very different. So I think that what I really love about how you describe and the terms you use in your own program, for example, you use like lethargy to lit. I really love the word lit, actually. I've never heard any other coach use it in their own coaching programs. That was one thing that really. That really stood out to me as well. But yeah, I think one thing that really resonated with what you just said is that, you know, after working with a coach like yourself, for example. Sure. And you also mentioned business coaching, which has more tangible outcomes, you can say, but really the real value of coaching, whether it's a business coach, life coach, health and fitness coach, really the end goal is can we get you to a life that you actually like and that could be lit, that could be healthier and happier, but really, just how can we get you to really like your life and yourself even more.

Yeah, exactly. Definitely. I agree with that.

Yeah. So that's why I love, you know, how you've been explaining or how you describe your, your signature methods. And again, the word lit. I love it. Yeah. I think one thing I actually would love to talk more about is because I'm not sure if any of my past law school classmates listen to my podcast. I feel like there has to be someone listening to this right now who was my law school classmate. So, hello, please reach out to me if you are still listening to this right now. But, you know, one thing I would love to get your thoughts on, Ryan, is for anyone who is currently in a very reputable, stable, prestigious career or job, but they don't feel like their life is quote unquote lit or what they want it to be, what would be your advice to them?

I'm going to say two things. So there's a common phrase that I say, which is you don't have to do what you've always done. You don't have to be who you've always been. I think we don't think, we think we don't have a choice because that's how it's presented to us. You're in this now and this is kind of what you do. People don't walk away from this. So it's very hard to go against the grain and to do that. So I would keep that phrase in mind and know that you do have a choice. Yes, the choices, like anything with choice. I mean, this choice may not look that great to you now, but going back to clarity, if you know what it is that you want. Yes. This choice may, for example, result in you having less money now. But will following this choice get you to your ultimate goal, which is a life that's lit, whatever that looks like for you. The second thing I would say, and I can't stress this enough, and it's something which I really realized at the beginning of this year, is you have to work on your mindset. Like the, when you're, when you're in a job, it's quite easy sometimes to, even if it's a challenging job, to kind of, I guess, phone it in to go through the motions, particularly once you've been doing it a while and you've got that experience and you know what you're doing. But if you want to go and do something else, you've really got to get your mind right because so many things are going to come up for you that you, you didn't know were Issues because you haven't had to deal with them before. And I mean, for me, I found it earlier this year. I hired a coach to help me with strategy because I thought that's what I needed and very quickly realized, in which the coach still finds funny to this day, that that is what I needed. I needed to work on my mindset. And when I did work on my mindset, suddenly everything became clearer. I became a lot happier, I enjoyed the business more, I was more creative. I stopped trying to do all the things. So I think get start working on your mindset now, even if you're in a job and you don't know where you're going to get to, if you can start to work on your mindse. And that initially might look like choosing a particular person or people that you resonate with and reading their books or watching their YouTube videos or whatever, don't try too many, but find the one that resonates with you and kind of follow that path and start to think about some of the questions that they ask or some of the processes that they go through. And then from there you can obviously then go on and hire a coach, do some self coaching, whatever. But you've got to start working on that from the beginning and it will just help you move a lot faster through the process.

I actually really. Oh, I think there's two things that really stood out to me from what you just. I think the second thing that that came to my mind was really working on your mindset. And I think for me, I think what that will look like is just knowing that there's always another way of looking at things or thinking about things. I think for me, a lot of what mindset work is choosing to think a thought that we don't naturally default or gravitate towards because our brain likes to give us all these negative thoughts. But all thought work and mindset work really comes down to, for me at least, is choosing to think a different thought and just being aware that there is another way of thinking about a certain situation or circumstance. I really love that you mentioned like if you want to get started, maybe one thing is just to expose yourself to new ideas or new way of thinking and just knowing that there's. Or just being aware that there's another way of operating. So I really like that part of what you just said. I think the other thing that really resonated, I'm trying to remember, I think it's when you mentioned. I really don't think I remember it, but I think it might have Been something about like employee corporate mindset. Yeah, I think it was something about that. Yeah.

Yes. I think we've always done. You'd have to be who you've always been. And yeah, it's being in the corporate world and being able to kind of just. Just go through the motions, even if it's a challenging role because you're. Everything's done the same way. There isn't really scope to do things differently. And that's what keeps. That's what keeps us on the track that we're on. Because I think what you said was key. It's allowing yourself to think differently, which I think, I think. Was that an Apple slogan once back in the day, Steve Jobs. But yeah, to think differently because we are told so many things from childhood about how life is supposed to be that we don't question or if we do try to question them, we're. We're sort of called rebellious or we don't mean we have difficulty in school or we could have told we can't hold down a job. But actually that's how we develop our own thoughts. And that's how you get to where you want to get to by thinking that, yes, this might be the way that it was done, but actually that's not the way that I want to do it. And one of the things which I've sort of started to delve into a bit more is looking at the world as a whole wasn't created for all of us. It was created through a specific lens. And that's why things are done in a specific way. So if you don't fit into the makeup of the person it was created for, the people it was created for, then by its very nature you're going to think differently and you're going to be made to feel bad for not thinking differently. But I think there's a whole movement now with people who are thinking differently, who are owning that they think differently. And it goes back to what I said about being a dropout who are dropping out of that old way of thinking and thinking. I'm going to do it my way. That is really, really powerful. And to me, that's the only way that you really make a change. And as a coach, that's a way which you. I think you can really have an impact by not fostering your views and other people, but by challenging people to think for themselves, because we all have that within them. We all have our own thoughts within side us, but we don't always expose them or we don't always know they're there. And that's what a coach does really, is help to kind of pull those out of you and get you to see things differently. It's reframing your thoughts. It's rewiring your habits and your behavior. Yeah, for me, that. That's what's really sort of magical and powerful about what it is that we do as coaches.

Would you mind sharing one of your current favorite thoughts to think? I would love to hear that. What's your, what's one of your favorite thoughts to think right now, Ryan?

Favorite thought to think. I mean, there's so many concepts that are coming up with, I think. So the most recent thing that I, that I posted was about belief and leaping and it was about that sometimes some people will take a leap, but they don't really believe that they, that they will land safely. You know, I mean, but they're doing it. You could call it being, being reckless. If you're in law, you'd call it acting recklessly. Right. You just take the leap, but you don't really believe. You kind of want to, but you don't. And some people believe that they, yeah, I could do that. I could really do that. But they never take the leap. They're the people that are still talking about doing it a year down the line, two years down the line, it's never really moved. But if you have the, if you can have the belief and take the leap in tandem, that's when you kind of really start to see a shift happen. And neither of them are easy to get. It's not easy to leap. It's not easy to believe because again, you're going against the grain really in both of those. But if you can do that, if you can be aware that they're difficult, if you can be aware of where your blocks are in relation to each of them and if you can start to focus on doing the work to unpack those, that's where it happens. Because that's, I mean, that's all that life is really. That's all the entrepreneurship is. It's jumping and it's believing that it's going to be okay and believing that you can figure it out and as guess as we always say, trusting in the process. That's again, that's the most most sort of recent thought for me, that there are many that come up, but that's probably the most recent, which I think would be, would be helpful, is work on your belief, goes back to working on your mindset. Work on your belief, but you've Also got to take the leap. You've got to take action. You can't just sort of sit still and talk about it. You've to got got to do something to make things happen.

And that reminded me of the earlier thought that I forgot what I was going to say, which was when you mentioned the importance of mindset and how a lot of times when entrepreneurs, for example, are building a business, they think it's a strategy that they need. But really, yes, strategy can help. But without the right mindset or the way of looking at things or thinking or believing in what's possible and believing in yourself, that like the identity piece, really without that thing in place, it's a lot harder to build that business and to execute on that strategy. And also I would argue that when I personally worked on my life, like my mindset about my whole entire life and my identity and self belief, my whole life changed, including my bank account. So I'm a huge advocate for mindset work and not just business mindset, but really holistically as a human being. So, so, so, so important. So yeah, I think one of the final, final questions I really want to hear about is what would, and this is a fun question. So Ryan, what would a lit day in the life look like for you today? Please describe a lit day for you.

Sure. So a late day would be getting up probably around six years before my kids get up, practicing yoga for half an hour. Well, I guess it was the ideal day. I do a full hour practice, meditate for half an hour, have breakfast with my kids and my wife, take the kids to school, I mean do a bit of work in the morning. So that could be creative work. So I'll say a Monday because I have an idea for my perfect Monday. So yeah, on Monday I'd come back, I'd go to a really cool coffee shop and do some creative stuff, just writing, maybe write a few social media captions, maybe write my email for the week or blog or whatever. Then I go to the gym, go boxing, do that, then have a really great lunch, maybe a great vegan lunch. And then in the afternoon I'm really big on one things. I really want the moment to have naps, which I don't get at the moment. With all the thought work, you realize how tired you get. So I'd have a quick half hour nap, then I get up and I don't know, maybe I have, maybe I'd have a conversation like this, be on a podcast or just catch up with a fellow entrepreneur, do a little bit of Thinking about the business. Go and pick up the kids if it's a nice day, take them to the park, sort of, they go on their scooters. I'd fall off my skateboard and come home, have dinner, put the kids to bed and then, yeah, sit down with the wife, have a nice glass of wine, nice dinner, watch a really good movie. Yeah, that's. That's for me. That's, that's great. No work, taking your entire day.

That sounds lovely. I love it. Well, Ryan, where can people find you and how can people work with you?

I'm very active on Instagram, am Ryan Spencer, so that's. You can always find me there, sharing all kinds of, kinds of weird and wonderful things and insights and tips. And my website is iamryanspence.com and again, you can go on there, you can get onto what I call the lit list, which is where I send my email every week with insights and tips and you learn a bit more about my story and how my experiences could hopefully help you. And you can also on there download my free confidence journal, which is six journal prompts which I use to kind of when I'm trying to do something. And it's just like, I don't believe I can do this. They kind of just help me unpack a lot of the issues that are going on in my own head. Yeah, I share those with you and hopefully you will find them helpful as well. And in terms of working with me. Yeah, so I mean, I love particularly to work with dropouts or future dropouts, whether that's big law or in corporate. So anyone who's sort of feeling unhappy, unfulfilled, who has that life of lethargy and kind of wants to improve and get to that life that's lit. And yet to go to the website, you can just book a discovery call with me there and we get on, we chat, I listen, we have a bit of fun and yeah, we kind of see if we, if we get on. But my big thing is that you work with me, you will get a transformation. You will, you will move from, from, from where you are, from that feeling of lethargy. And you will start to understand what lit feels like for you and start to make decisions and develop habits and strategies that will get you towards living that life on a more permanent basis.

So much fun. Alrighty, everyone. Every link that was just mentioned will be in the show notes below. So, yeah, Ryan, thank you so, so, so much for being here. I really, really have always resonated with your story. So thank you so much for sharing it on our podcast today and thank you to everyone else for being here and I'll catch you in the next one. Bye everyone.

Thank you. Bye.

If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave a five star rating and a review on Apple itunes or share this on your Instagram stories so that more people can hear about this show. And if you want to connect with me, you can find me heraltheory on Instagram and you can always find all the details about my work and current offers on my website@Cheryl Theory.com Anyways, thanks so much for tuning in into today's episode and I'll see you in the next one.