Sheranne Wong - Yoga Saved My Life

I feel sad for that me, because again, when I say yoga saved my life, I literally mean it. Literally, right? And it's sad to see the person I was before knowing yoga.

Welcome to the Yoga Den. Are you a stressed out cog in the corporate wheel? Do you find yourself asking what am I doing and why am I doing it? Then the Yoga Den is the place for you. I'm your host, Ryan Spence, AKA the big law, dropout, writer, yoga teacher, and your guide on the path to well being through yoga. Yoga helped me find my purpose, change my mindset and my life. And in this podcast, I'll share how to live a life of intention. No reaction. Each week I'll be talking to a variety of guests and covering pearls of wisdom to help you figure out where you're heading. It's where you really want to go. I. I won't find your purpose for you, but I'll help you plan the route. So sit back and grab a drink. I've been expecting you. Welcome to episode three of the Yoga Den podcast. This week's guest is what's known as a yogi preneur, which if you've never heard the term before and I hadn't until recently, is someone who's both a yogi and an entrepreneur. Funny that. Sharan Wong is a yoga teacher and founder of corporate wellness business the Locomotive Company. Now living back in her native Singapore. In a previous life, Chiran was a high powered corporate headhunter in Hong Kong. Having found yoga following a serious back injury while living in la, Sharan turned to yoga to help her through the stresses of corporate life in Hong Kong. Leaving the corporate life behind, Sharan followed her calling and headed to India to gain her yoga teaching certification. And at the Himalayan Institute. Drawing on her own experiences of being a fast spinning cog in a corporate wheel, Chiran saw the need for corporate employees to have access to wellness solutions within the workplace. And this led to the creation of the Locomotive Company, which provides a sustainable and holistic approach to workplace wellness. In this wide ranging interview, Sharan and I discussed many things, including how yoga saved her life. Why just doing it and figuring it out as you go along is the best policy, and why her yoga retreat, which I attended, did not have a mandatory vegan menu. So grab your headphones, grab a drink and let's do this. Okay. Hey, Sharan. Welcome to the Yoga Den. How you doing?

Good, thank you. Thanks for having me.

No problem. Good to have you on the show. So, to kick off, I want to start with two things which I haven't told you before.

Okay.

So for the benefit of the listeners, we first met when you came to teach yoga at the old law firm I was at.

That's right, actually.

And, and then I then went on to one of the retreats that the company you run, the Locomotive Co, ran in Bali.

Yeah.

And actually it was at that retreat where the seeds were sown for starting my own yoga and wellness business.

No way.

Yeah. So we, I mean, just sitting there, the setting was great, sort of to being immersed in yoga was great. And then I don't know if you remember, but we, we, we had a bit of a chat after lunch one of the days, talking about your background and stuff. So, so yeah. So I have you to sort of partly thank for all that's going on right now.

That's actually so sweet. I'm so glad to hear that.

No problem. And then the second thing is that. Yes. So when I first had the idea of doing the podcast, you're actually one of the first names on the list for that reason. Your corporate background to yoga teacher and now your focus on corporate wellness. Or just really chimed with me and it's kind of had an influence on, on kind of what I want to do now. So with that, let's start by talking about your corporate journey. Like where did you begin in the corporate world?

Yeah, so that's a, that's a funny one. Right. I never ever thought of myself being in the corporate world. I used to be in fashion. That's what I went to school for in la and I was working in a fashion magazine briefly in Singapore and I just, it was a random kind of trip to Hong Kong where. Well, I didn't really want to be in Singapore at that time. And I was just like, right, I'm gonna pack up and move to Hong Kong and look for a job then not knowing what I was really looking for and where that's going to take me. And I just started reaching out to people and kind of fell into headhunting. So I was in executive search within the fashion world and, and that was kind of it. So I, yeah, I was fully immersed into that whole world of recruitment, living in Hong Kong for two years and it was, it was great. I, I liked it. I wouldn't say I loved. Was lots of stresses. And I think at that time my anxiety and stress levels were on an all time high. And my yoga journey had begun years back in LA because of my back surgery, which maybe we might talk about later, but in Hong Kong, that's when my yoga journey started to deepen just because of the amount of stress and anxiety I was in. I just felt like I needed yoga.

Yes, A common, a common theme. I think a lot of people come to yoga to release stress and although obviously if you stay long enough, it's the, there's so much more to it than that. That's definitely seems to be the, the gateway for, for many people.

Absolutely.

Okay, so you had two years in, in Hong Kong, in, in the corporate world, but prior to that you said you were in la and you mentioned your back surgery, which I, I had read about a little bit. But, but what happened there and how did that then start your yoga journey?

Yeah, so, I mean, even, this is a long one. Even up till today, I'm still kind of like, you know, working on the trauma that happened to not just a body, but even mentally. So what happened was before I had moved to la, I had a fall. It was just a really unfortunate fall where I fell off the cart in an airport. It was just silly. I was sitting on. A friend was pushing me, she decided to let it go. I fell straight down on my bum. My spine shifted and yeah, it was bad. I knew something bad really happened, but I was still able to get up and walk. And I went to the hospital the next day, but it was just a very general doctor and he was like, no, I think you're gonna be fine, just do a bit of physiotherapy, whatever. I actually went for almost a year without surgery because everyone was like, you know, you're still young, you shouldn't be going for a surgery, especially with your back. But it got to the point where my, my legs started bruising. I couldn't sit or stand for more than five minutes without feeling any sort of pain. So I went to see a specialist and that was when he was just like, you need surgery like right now because you were almost paralyzed and yeah, and you were so lucky, but you need to get surgery like right now. So that was that. And this is right before I had to move to la. So I had to push everything back obviously to get the surgery and just recover from it. And the moment the doctor was like, right, you can get on a plane, I was on the next flight out to la. But I never had a post op recovery. I never saw a therapist. I never, I, I had a few physiotherapy sessions, but that was it. Then I was in la where it was this whole new world. I was in school and it was almost like I disassociated myself from whatever that happened. And so I never really dealt with it. And not knowing that with the back injury came a lot of issues mentally. So I dealt with depression and anxiety after. But I always thought that that was a completely separate thing. And I. To the point where, yeah, again, I think I disassociated from my body a lot. Yeah. So, you know, 10, 11 years later, till today, like, I'm still. I'm still dealing with pain and that was something. I knew that it was going to happen. I. I do live in pain, chronic pain, but just working on the trauma and working on coming back into my body again and dealing with the stress, anxiety, knowing that it definitely has, you know, some sort of relation one way or another. Yeah, it's still something that I'm working on today, so. Yeah. But that injury kind of kicked off my yoga journey because I. I didn't know what else to do. I couldn't go to the gym, I couldn't do much. And to be fair, in hindsight, I don't think yoga was the best thing for me physically after, you know, such a traumatic injury. But that was my first. My first ever yoga class was a studio right next to, you know, my apartment in downtown la.

Wow.

Yeah.

And what was that for the class? What type of yoga was it?

I want to say it was even a vinyasa class. It was a hot yoga class. And. Because that studio was called yoga and spinning. Yes. And it was just super intense. And I used to play competitive netball. I used to go to gym all the time. I used to run a lot. So I was super active. I remember hating the class. I was just like, get me the fuck out of here. It's so slow. It's so boring. I'm just. I don't want to deal with this. I'm sweating balls and I'm just like, I hate this. So my first yoga class. Absolutely hated it. And, you know, to everyone who's listening, like, I hear you, I feel you. If you're starting yoga and you're like, oh, my God, get me out of this. I know how that feels. Like it's normal. It's okay, it'll get better.

I know, it's hilarious, isn't it? Because for so many people's yoga teachers and. And sort of experienced practitioners, they hated their first class.

Oh, yeah.

It's like, well, why did you go back? But they just. It's like this.

There was something about it. Yeah, there's something. Maybe we're all masochists, you know, I don't know, but there's something about it and I think that's, that's the little magic, that's a spark that has been ignited. Right. And it, sometimes it takes a long time, it takes years to get to the point of maybe the mental benefits of it or the spirituality of it. But I think just taking that first step, it can ignite something in you. And yeah, you just keep going back even though the first class was basically torture.

And I think that's why, and you mentioned there in terms of taking time to get to the, the sort of, the mention the spiritual side of it, but actually if you can go to something, hate it and keep going back, you're already building up that consistency, that discipline, that resilience right there, which is an amazing sort of tool that you don't even necessarily realize you're doing.

Yeah.

But sort of take it a few years down the line and you've got your regular practice and it's like that, that's where it started. That's What?

Exactly. Yeah. 100% cool.

So Hong Kong, you were there for two years in this executive search role? I guess. I mean I've been to Hong Kong a few times. It's very much work hard, play hard. Yeah, there's a going on. But that then also takes its toll. If you're working long hours and you're, then you're out all night, you're not getting enough sleep, it's really not good. Sort of physically and mentally.

Yeah.

So you said your yoga practice deepened in Hong Kong. What did that look like? How did you manage to fit that in with everything that was going on?

God, I think it, you know, now I see it so clearly. But when I, when I was in it, I couldn't see it. Right. All I knew was that it was my one hour to get the hell out of the office and just have time on my own just to breathe, you know, and be away from the desk, be away from all the shit that's going on in my head. Because, you know, some, some of you might know with recruitment is just such a money driven business. Right. And it's basically non stop. And I think I, I didn't realize how much stress I was under, um, until I realized I wasn't, you know, obviously I wasn't sleeping well. I, I was terrified to wake up. I remember waking up in the morning dreading the day and I was just like, I'm terrified of what today is going to bring. And that's, that's scary. And then upon waking up, you know you're going to the office and in Hong Kong, I mean, it's just, it's intense, right. It feels so claustrophobic. Sometimes there are rats running around the street, smells. And this is like seven in the morning. And you get there and you're like, here I am again. And it started to make me question why I'm doing what I'm doing. And, and I was so stressed. I was. All I wanted to do was to go to sleep so that I don't think right. And so I realized I might have been struggling with depression. Obviously anxiety and stress, it was a combination of, of all of it. And so going to yoga was my one hour of just, yeah, like tune out time, tune out and yet tune in. Right. And it started off again as a very physical practice. You know, I love the hot classes. When I was in Hong Kong, I'm a very Vinyasa based practitioner and teacher. I just love the movement and the breath. And that's when it happened. I was like, oh my God. The moment I realized, the moment I start to pay attention to my breath, which is a really weird thing because for the longest time I feel like we're not aware of the breath, right?

Oh yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And I think there was a day where it just kind of clicked and I was like, shit, wait, what? Like I'm, I'm aware of my breath. Like, you know, this is real and this is what's keeping me alive. It sounds so silly. I was like, this is great. So, yeah, so I was practicing every single day. I would not miss a class because that was my saving grace. And then I started, you know, speaking to teachers then and they've had such a profound impact on me, whether they know it or not. Like, I remember all the teachers that I've been to in Hong Kong. There are times where, yeah, I've just only seen them in passing or we'll have a brief high and by. But they've impacted my life so greatly and that weaved the path into me teaching. I've never thought I was going to end up teaching ever, but here I am.

Yeah, that's funny because yoga is such a, such a teacher driven thing. Yeah. Like you can go to a class and if you don't resonate with the teacher, you don't go back. But once you find that teacher you resonate with. You just find that it just works. Everything just clicks into place. And I mean, we'll come to your, your teacher training in a second. But I know for mine I still. And my Teacher said this at the time. He said, you'll go out there and you'll, you'll, you'll be mini me's. But the idea is that you eventually develop your own style. And I see that the way that I say things and direct things is very much from the teacher, but it's because the teachers has such a profound effect on you. Right. And. And that's kind of what's going to influence your practice going forward.

Absolutely. And just try to find your own voice. And that's what's beautiful, beautiful about the teaching journey. And also understanding that as much as we're teachers, we're also still students. Right. And we're constantly learning.

Yeah, yeah. We never, never perfect. It's always, always a practice. Yeah. So at what point did you decide you wanted to teach?

So this is when I kind of realized that Hong Kong wasn't it for me anymore. You know, I got offered another role in recruitment and it just didn't feel right. I was like, do I want to take up a job where I'm not excited about? In Hong Kong, the magic kind of wore off, I think after two years of living there. I was like, right, I don't think I'm going to settle down here. What's next? And at that point I wanted to move to Sydney. And I was talking to my teacher then, Tanya, Tanya Barton, and I was like, you know, I might move to Sydney or either that or I'll move back to Singapore and open a studio. Because opening a studio is that easy, right?

Every yoga teacher everywhere.

Exactly. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to like, go back to Singapore not knowing what the market's like, just open a studio. That didn't happen, obviously. And Tanya was like, hey, why don't you go do your teacher training? That never once crossed my mind at that point. Just because I felt like, you know, as a student, you're like, oh, I. I need to be able to do all of this stuff before I can be a teacher.

And that's to a handstand.

Exactly.

Behind my head.

Exactly. And I was like, oh, I can't. I mean, I still can't do a handstand, so.

Me neither.

Yeah. And it's fine. And that's, that's not what yoga is all about. Right. So she was the one. I was like, no, it doesn't matter. I think you're ready. You should go look into it. And I was like, okay, well, let me just go look into it. At that point, I had nothing holding me back. In Hong Kong, Singapore, or in Sydney. I was like, I'm just gonna do a bunch of research. But I knew that I wanted to go to India, okay? I wanted to go to the root and origin of where yoga stemmed from. So I did a bunch of research, and, you know, Tanya gave me a few, like, tips and whatever to choose the right course. And she goes, you know, you'll actually just know it. You keep coming back to that teacher. You keep coming back to this course. Something in you will show you the way, right? So I did a bunch of research and all that stuff, and I finally found the course that I. I ended up going to, and it was at the Himalayan Yoga Institute in Kulu Valley, and it was life changing. It sounds so cliche. And I think, like, everybody who's done a yoga teacher training course, it is life changing, and it's incredible. And for me, that was a pivotal moment where, you know, my whole perspective in life and what. What we really need or want is just different. I. I was living in an ashram for a month, and every day you're waking up at five in the morning, doing your satsang, your meditation, your chanting, and then going out throughout the day with obviously your practice and your theories and whatnot. And to be honest, even at that time, I didn't know if I wanted to teach. I just knew that I wanted to dig deeper. I wanted to go deeper and figure this whole yoga thing out, you know? And then along the way, I just realized, no, like, this is. This is it. I. I think a part of me was like, how do I bring this forward? How do I now show people how yoga and meditation has literally saved my life? You know, I was depressed and anxious and, I mean, being terrified to wake up, and that changed. And. Yeah. So I think when I just realized what I wanted to do, what my purpose was, was to try and bring this forward, to help others through the practice of yoga and meditation. That's when it clicked. And I was like, I need to teach. I. I have to. And I don't know where it's gonna be, but that's what I have to do. So that was it that, you know, that kicked off the teaching journey. And, you know, I think, like, everyone after a teacher training, you're like, okay, well, what. What now? Like, what's next? And, yeah, so then I. I had already booked my flight to Australia. I went to Sydney, actually. That's when I went to home yoga, and that's when I met Blair.

Okay.

Yeah. And. And we actually had a chat Because I was looking for a mentor then, and I was like, oh, like, you know, maybe you could be my mentor or whatever. But I left shortly after because it didn't feel right. Sydney just didn't feel right for me. You know, coming from an ashram in Kulu Valley and then moving to Sydney.

Switch.

Yeah, exactly. I was like, I just. It didn't feel right. So I kind of just took that time to visit different studios. And yeah, I actually did an interview with home yoga, but then they weren't sponsoring visas, obviously, for yoga teachers. And then Christmas 2016 came around, and that was when I just realized, you know, maybe I should just go back to Singapore and figure out this whole business stuff. Not having a plan, and I wasn't going to open a studio, but I was like, I'll go back to Singapore and figure it out. And that's when the breath of Locomotive happened.

Wow. So going to come to Locomotive. But one thing that you said I want to go back to, I think it's really important is you said yoga changed your life.

Yeah.

And it's funny, I've heard that phrase a number of times and I've said it myself. And when I was recording the. The intro for the podcast, I say in that. And I did sort of think, but are people going to think that's too dramatic? But it's true. And so it's interesting that you say that. That as well. That transformation of going through the training, but even before the training, it just kind of really changes your whole mindset. The whole in Hong Kong saying that it's all about more money, it's all about getting more, more, more.

Yep.

And you get sucked in along on that. You know, it's like a train you just ride along at. But once you discover yoga, you realize that actually, no, that. That's not what life's about. And that's not what I want my life to be about.

Exactly. And I think sometimes these shifts are so small and organic that in the moment, you don't actually see it. It's actually hard to tell, you know, it's hard to tell which specific moment you realize it's not about the money, it's not about all this external stuff. Even thinking about it now, it's hard to point out just one moment because I think it was an ongoing journey that created this shift. So, yeah, I think. I don't know. I've met a lot of students and who get frustrated with their journey. They get. They get very anxious, they get impatient. You're like, especially with the awesomeness, right. The physical part of it, they're like, oh, I can't get into this. Why? And it gets very frustrating. But these are all part of the journey as well. These are all the learning lessons, you know, and teaching you how to be patient, patient with yourself, being kind to yourself. And so I think that that's where it's so beautiful. Sometimes I think about the yoga journey and I get very emotional because I'm like, holy. I can't imagine my life without it. Yeah, it would have been a catastrophe.

Oh, I can definitely relate to that. Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. So how long after getting a certification in India did you teach? Did you teach? When was your first class and what was it like? What's it like that first time stepping into a room as a yoga teacher.

Oh, God. So I think I started teaching obviously during training. You're, you're doing all these classes and stuff. I think my very first mock class was in Sydney. Okay. At home yoga. It was terrifying. And I think mock classes till today scares the out of me. Right. It's worse than a proper class. Yeah, yeah. So that was the first one. And then coming back here, I think I to Singapore, I was just incredibly lucky with people who were just so supportive. So I immediately, I had private clients and they were, you know, these are friends or friends of friends who just wanted to support my journey, which I am so thankful for because I wouldn't be here without all of that. So I had private sessions and then I had a friend who was a yoga teacher. He was, was in banking at that time. He wanted to start his own business as well. He was teaching at yoga lab here in Singapore. And he was like, hey, you know, I, I know the owners, maybe I can put you in touch. So I started to teach at yoga lab, actually very briefly before at a smaller studio called Yoga Instinct, who's ran by Brandon. But yeah, I mean those mock classes, it's scary and it's nerve wracking, but I think the moment you get through with it, you're like, okay, well that wasn't, you know, that wasn't too bad. And the first live class, I think you're just a bunch of nerves, right? And you're like, right, okay, all these practitioners are super advanced and whatever and this is my first class. I don't know what they're going to think of me. So that whole like self doubt and whatever else comes into play and you just gotta roll with it and do, do your best and that's all you can do and be as human as you can. Right. I think that's what people relate to. Even if you fuck it up, you fuck up sequence or whatever, like, just roll with it, laugh and say, well, I don't know, I messed it up or I'm hungover or something. And, yeah, the students are. They're gonna be okay.

Yeah.

And, yeah, like, I. I learn so much from my students. Every single day, every single class, I take something away. So, you know, there's still days where I go into a studio and I'm like, yeah, I'm feeling a little bit off, or like, I'm not really sure about this, but you just gotta, again, own it and be as authentic as you can be. And I think students will know and students can sense it, and that's what it is.

Yeah, that's. That's so true. And it's funny because as you were talking through that, I could see the, the metaphor with anything. I mean, with me starting everything new now, it's very much that case of you just have to do it, and when you do it, you'll figure it out and you'll figure out what went well, what didn't go well. But if you don't start, you'll never happen.

Exactly.

And yeah, you mentioned, mentioned Blair. I didn't know you knew Blair, funnily enough, but obviously Blair taught me on my yoga teacher training. And he was very clear that the teacher training was setting you up to teach and he wanted you to go out and teach. It wasn't about the theory, all of that is important. But there is so much knowledge. You just have to kind of get out there, do it, and learn as you go. And I think that that encouragement has really helped. Definitely me, but other students who are on the course with me, because a lot of them are now out there just teaching wherever they can teach. Yeah. So, yeah, any. Anyone sort of listening out there, whatever you want to do, just. Just go out and do it and figure it out. And you make, you will make mistakes, but that's how you learn. I mean, and you get better, and you get better, and you get better.

Yeah, that's when the growth process happens.

Exactly.

And the more you put yourself out there, yes, you're going to get rejected, you're going to fail, or, you know, make mistakes. But it's better to do it and then learn from it than to just sit there wondering, what if I've done it? And I think the best way for teachers or people who are maybe, I don't know, you're listening and you're like, oh, there's something in you that tells you you want to do a teacher training or maybe you want to teacher, but you're unsure. Just give it a go. And the more you put yourself out there, the more you're going to learn and you, you won't regret it.

Yeah, well, that's the thing. You, you, you regret not doing it, you won't regret doing it. Right, Exactly. Well, yeah, whatever it is, just, just head on out.

Yeah.

So that brings us like nicely on to the Locomotive Co. Yeah. So your, your baby, your company. Yeah. So as I mentioned at the top of the show, I first came across you and the company when you came in to teach at our law firm. And I think it's probably the first sort of corporate wellness business that I had encountered. Corporate wellness was this thing that sort of thrown around by law firms and corporates. You know, I mean, I'll leave it to people who are listening to sort of decide whether or not they are really invested in your wellness. But I found it interesting and I mean, I did most of the classes that you taught, but where did the idea come from? Was that from your time in Hong Kong or was it related to that?

Yeah, I think definitely the whole, the whole journey from, from the start, back injury, stress, anxiety and that, you know, tripling. When I was in, in Hong Kong, it all played a role into starting the company. I think a big thing for me was raising mental health awareness just because I, prior to my, you know, my injury with my back, I, I did go through bouts of depression, you know, even suicidal thoughts and things like that, which in hindsight, it's insane. I, I, I feel sad for that me, because again, when I say yoga saved my life, I literally mean it literally, right? And it's sad to see the person I was before knowing yoga. And the thing is, when I was going through that, I just felt like there wasn't a safe space or I just didn't know much about stress or anxiety or depression. And it's just been an ongoing personal journey of going through that and knowing that there are people out there who deal with the same things or even worse. And you know, I've heard so many stories throughout the years of people not making it right, and it breaks my heart to hear that. And so for me, when I came back, I was like, okay, first of all, how do I just start teaching immediately? How do I create the most impact and how do I raise mental health awareness through the journey of yoga meditation? Because I've been through it And I know it works.

Yeah.

And so I didn't really, honestly, I didn't have a business plan. I mean, eventually I did, but it was kind of okay. Looking at what I wanted to bring to the community and how I wanted to help people, I think a big thing for me and through my work right now is just to help people through what I know and creating that space where they can come and talk about whether it's pain or whether whatever that they're struggling with in their journeys to create that environment. And I think with corporates, yes. Just because I've been in Hong Kong and I, I see that people do need it. I see the struggles within the corporate industry. You know, I was working with the C level guys and yeah, they're stressed out and they're not sleeping. I've had private clients who've had really big jobs and they're on sleeping pills to sleep. Right. And they're struggling mentally, but they're so disconnected from their bodies and it's, it's not healthy. So I was like, okay, well that's what I'm gonna do. I want to bring yoga meditation into the companies. So that was really it. And I think my, my headhunting experience has just made me kind of like a hustler in that sense where I just went up to companies and be like, hey, so do you guys want to do yoga classes? Well, good and bad, right? So I'll be like in my yoga pants going to meet these guys at like, I don't know, Morgan Stanley, whatever it is. And they must be looking at me like, what the heck, right? So there were times I, again going down the spiral of they obviously think that I don't know what I'm talking about or whatever. And you know, I, I've been through so many down times of, okay, well maybe this isn't right. Or like they obviously think that I'm just a yoga teacher and blah, blah, blah, whatever. And it took a lot to come back to that point of why am I doing this? Why did I start the company? And staying true to that and knowing that I know what I'm talking about and I know that I'm good at what I do. And it's taken years of, of practice and self assurance because, you know, there are times even till today, I go into class and I'm like, like I don't know what I'm doing, you know, or you get a bad review, a student complaints or whatever and it brings you down, right? There was a TED Talk that I listened to ages ago where how they. They studied how humans, when something bad happens, they kind of sit in it for a much longer time, replaying whatever bad has happened as compared to when something positive happens. You're like, okay, well, great. Pat on the back. I'm good.

Yeah.

But when they go through something bad and they were rejected and we just sit in it. Right. That's natural human behavior. So how do we unlearn that, you know, and give ourselves enough credit for doing something good and being good at what we do? So, yeah, so with Locomotive, you know, I think we had a chat before the podcast, and it's just constantly going back to the drawing board and seeing if something works and it doesn't because, you know, I hit so many walls, and even right now, it's hard. Right. With the current situation.

Oh, yeah.

Companies are like, well, that's not our priority right now. Our priorities, getting rid of people or cutting down budgets. I'm like, but the bigger picture is these people are working from home. They're working more than usual. They're stressed out. They're anxious about the future. Do you not think that that's something to address? Right. So it's getting better. From the time that I started the company up till today, people are becoming more aware.

They.

They want to know more. They. They know that mental health is important. They know that it's not just physical health that is the priority. But there were so many roadblocks, right? From budgets to companies not knowing what wellness is really. They're like, well, why yoga? I remember a meeting I had once, and they. The reason they said no to what Locomotive was providing was because the employees decided that the budget, in their, you know, like, committee thing or whatever, they wanted to go for a karaoke session instead. It's just like, oh, my goodness. What? So it's very different. And I think it's not so much sometimes about the employees not willing to do it. It's a systemic. Right. Sometimes it comes from up top. And the success I found with companies is when, for example, a CEO of. Or, you know, like, the head of a team is an advocate for it, and then they bring something like that on board. That's when the change happens.

Yeah.

And we've had great successes, but we've also had to learn a lot of lessons. Right. In terms of what we're providing. Is this actually what companies want? Yeah. And, you know, coming back here, you're like, of course. For us, we're like, yes, of course. Every company has to have yoga classes every day. Meditation classes every day, breath work. But it's hard for someone on the other side.

Yeah.

Right. And we've all been on the other side before. Years ago, if someone came to my company is like, yeah, we have yoga classes every day. We're going to be breathing for an hour. I'll be like, absolutely not.

Definitely. Without a doubt. It's. Yeah, you need to, you need someone who has had the experience and come out the other side, as you say, to, to be that advocate and to say, but this, this really works because there is still. As big as yoga is now and as big as meditation and mindfulness is now, there is still a lot of skepticism.

Absolutely.

And that's the breath. I mean, breath work is, it's kind of lower down because it's still quite new in terms of that global scale. And you sort of mentioned breathwork and people like what you're going to teach people to breathe. They kind of look at you like you're crazy.

Yeah, exactly.

This is. Now is when this is needed more.

Yeah. More than ever.

Yeah. It's kind of counterproductive to say we don't have budget because now is when it's needed more. You need your employees to be productive, to be healthy, to be happy. And giving this to them will do that.

Yeah, yeah.

But stress is a key one because.

Yeah.

In the industries that, while the industry that you were in, the industry that I was in, it attracts all people who expected to be these sort of high achieving type A personalities. You do the deals. You do the deals. That's kind of what it's all about. Stress is kind of just something that you like, live with. It's almost like a badge of honor. And it has been for so long. And while those conversations are slowly changing in the public arena, I still think within the corporates themselves there is still this sort of skepticism. It's kind of like, well, I did it this way. Why won't you just do it the same way? This is how it's supposed to be. This is how it works. Yeah. Have you kind of found that sort of resistance as well in your meetings that you've had?

Yeah, you know, it's. I think it's a lack of what I've realized at the end of it. It's. There's a lack of education around stress. For example, people think that stress only happens when you're set your desk and a deal didn't come through or you have so much work and you know you're not sleeping and things like that. And if you're not stressed out, you're not working hard, you know, and it's, I don't know if it's something particularly in Asia, but it's not. No, it's global. Huh. Yeah. And I think people need to change that mindset of what stress is because you know, when your body is in constant stress mode, when it's in constant fight or flight, it's, it's not healthy. Right. It's detrimental to the body, to the mind. It actually makes you less productive at work.

Oh yeah.

And so, yeah, I do meet with a lot of resistance with, for example, with hr. Right. Sometimes these type of wellness programs go through hr. It depends on the companies and HR wellness is at the end of their list. Right. HR's role. I mean, I might be wrong in this, but it's hiring the best person for the least amount of money kind of thing or all other priorities.

Yeah, hr, it could be a whole other podcast in itself.

Yeah, I won't go there, but yeah, exactly. And so, you know, when I, when I speak to them about wellness, they have no idea. So it's almost like we needed to spoon feed them what they needed to do. But even then they're like, well, actually the take up rate wasn't that great for yoga and they don't understand the long term benefits of that. And so even if you say that, okay, you know, it can help with stress levels and managing any sort of mental issues with employees, it's hard for them to see. And I think one big thing is that the change with yoga, like we talked about, a lot of it was not as tangible.

Yes.

As we know. Right. It's a ongoing process of growth and healing. But, but with these type of things, especially when you're trying to convince a company to purchase a package of whatever, yoga, meditation classes, et cetera, if they can't see a tangible change immediately or an increase in productivity immediately, they're like, well, this doesn't work.

Yes.

Yeah. So I, I think that was a big thing where, you know, there was almost no way for me, especially when I started business on my own. I didn't have an app, I didn't have something to track your thing or whatever. It was hard to convince these guys to be like, no, trust me, it will work. You might not see it now, but you will. So yeah, definitely we met with a lot of resistance from companies.

Yeah. Because it's, we're learning more about the brain and how that works and the nervous system and all those sorts of things. You know, it's it's based in science.

Yeah.

But as you say, without that sort of. Okay, if I pay you X amount of dollars, what's going to be my dollar return later?

Yes.

You can't measure it in there. You know, you're measuring it in your employees. How do they feel?

Exactly.

How, how are they acting? Are they more productive? Are they happier? I mean, because happier people, I mean, will be more productive.

Yeah.

People don't go to work to do a bad job generally. But people go to work and they may do a bad job because they haven't had enough sleep, they are stressed, they are overworked, they don't have a life outside the office.

Yeah.

And by giving them the tools to effectively take care of their own wellness, you know, I mean, it doesn't have to be that they're all, all going to leave and golf and be yoga teachers.

Yeah, exactly.

But it just means that they're gonna. You said something earlier about being, not being aware of your body. It's that awareness.

Yeah.

Because I know what I found is once, once I started practicing consistently, I became more aware of my body. Okay. If I do this, my body does that. And it doesn't really like this or this part is always a bit tight or this part. And that awareness then helps you to kind of almost self medicate in a sense, you know, when you start to do things that work for you rather than work against you.

Exactly. And I think it's this whole journey of again, getting to know yourself better. At least I know that's what I'm trying to do with my practice and with everything that I do now. Constantly knowing ourselves. Because we're always there for others, Right. Or like we get to know someone else, but why can't we do that with ourselves? Right, exactly. And yoga really does help you to do that. Like you said, you know, certain poses don't feel great and you don't actually have to do it, you know, and then being aware and just again coming back into the body, creating that breath and body connection and just being so in tune with yourself so that you are aligned in that sense.

Oh, exactly. Without a doubt. I, I wanted to get to a stage where when I mention yoga to people, the first thing that comes back isn't, I can't do yoga because I'm not flexible.

Yeah, exactly. I would love that.

It's not about that.

No, it's not. It's not. Or like they'll start doing something that they know from yoga and it's, it's actually really great. I Mean, I love having conversations with people and they're like, oh yeah, like I can do this. And I'm like, great, keep going.

Yeah, because it is. I mean, as you say, it's. And I think it was probably day one of my teacher training, but it's self inquiry, right? It's you, you on the mat. It's. And once you, once you get to that point, your practice changes. I mean, I know for me and, and everyone has their own way of practicing what works for them, but I used to love going to classes with music. I always had music in classes. And then I started to go to a home where they didn't have music. I said, okay, this is quite interesting. Yeah, I can do this. It's okay. Then I did my teacher training and I just don't practice with music anymore.

Exactly.

If I'm just moving, like not going through a sequence, then then I might. But yeah, I just, My breath is what I listen to and what I follow. And it's not to say that people shouldn't practice with music. You have to do what works for you. But I just found it really interesting, that whole shift in my own practice.

Exactly.

It really moves you.

Yeah.

So where did the name come from? The locomotive Co. I want to. Every time, every time I see the name, I want to sing the kind of Minogue song I know.

And so many people actually say, oh yeah, how's locomotion going? I'm like, oh my God, get it right. So funny that one. I, for some reason, this word has stuck with me for years. I think it was, it was in the Kylie Minogue song. It was from another song that I can't even think of the artist right now, but there was the word locomotive in it and it just kind of fascinated me. Right. So obviously looked up the proper meaning to it, the origin of the word, blah, blah, blah. And essentially what a locomotive is is the engine that drives a train forward. And the origin of the word, it's. It's a force that creates movement. And so for me, I was like, this is actually perfect because what I want to bring into the community here in Singapore is to create a change. And movement is yoga and you're constantly moving, so locomotive. Actually our, our slogan is changed by movement. So, yeah, I don't know, it's been a word that has been there. And then when I looked up the origin of the word and I was like, this is freaking perfect, so let's just go with it.

Yeah, I think it's interesting to hear that story because, yeah, change by movement, your slogan. I just think it's such a great slogan. It just kind of encompasses so much. Yeah. And I, I often talk about sort of just being on a train and the train's taking you somewhere and you don't, you're not sure if you want to go where the train's going, but you're just on it and you don't get off. Yeah. So this train concept is, is with us throughout our life and so having that sort of change by movement is. Yeah, I think it's a, it's a.

Great way of putting it.

So. Yeah, no, I really like it. Get to. Get to hear the story of how it, how it came. So, yeah, we talked about that. There is this increased awareness in, in wellness. It's kind of flowing up and down. Have you. I mean, I don't know. Do you only focus in Singapore? Have you seen a difference between Singapore and other jurisdictions? Or is all the work that you've been doing for corporates being in Singapore, particularly now that we're online a lot.

Yeah. So as of right now, actually really good question. Never really thought about this. I think it's changing everywhere. I, you know, I do follow certain businesses on their social media and looking what they're doing online. I think there is a change globally. However, my work has been very focused on Singapore right now. But like you said, it's. There's a huge change right now in terms of the whole online landscape. What that's going to look like, I have no idea. But I think it's definitely going to change the way people practice. I have no doubt people still love going to the studio and things like that, having your hands on adjustments. Although we're not allowed to touch anyone right now. Yeah. But having that, you know, being online, it's almost. There are no boundaries. Right. So it's, it's great. I obviously maybe more competition, but I think in the wellness industry, any sort of competition is great. Right. We're out there to, to help people and bring the work to them and what, you know, our journeys, our stories are, you know, anything that we can help. Yeah, help better someone else's life is. Is great. So it's. Yeah, I think there are endless opportunities right now and endless boundaries. But with our work specifically for me, even with teaching, it's just been focused online. Although there was, you know, a company who did a meditation course with one of our meditation. Meditation teachers from Locomotive, and it was like an APAC thing. So we had the teams from Japan and Malaysia, whatever, joining in on the same call, which was really nice to see because it was one of the opportunities where the whole team was together and they don't really see each other and. Yeah. So I think companies should actually just kind of take that to their advantage. Right. And, you know, do a class on Zoom, a meditation session on Zoom, a talk on Zoom, and have the global team join in or what. Apac, whatever. I think it's a great opportunity for companies to really kickstart their. Yeah. Their wellness programs. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's. It's a fascinating time because, I mean, I sort of started all this just in the midst of the pandemic. So. Yeah, for me, the online landscape is. It's new, but it's kind of what I know in terms of trying to get into the yoga and wellness space and set up a business, but it's opened up so much. And you're saying there about them sort of potentially being more competition. And what I really liked is that I've connected with so many people globally that I wouldn't have connected with if we're still doing things in the old way and everyone is really supportive. It's kind of like someone said something to me, I think it was last week, or it might be in the course I was on, where if we operate from a place of abundance, suddenly everything changes.

Yeah.

And things just flow to you. And I didn't know that that's kind of what I was doing before, but now, like. Yeah, that's it. Because if you just sort of help people out, share people, I mean, promote what they're doing, kind of tell people about what they're doing, et cetera, et cetera, without expectation, it just creates this whole beautiful stream of. Of things happening.

Yeah.

I mean, that you wouldn't have expected.

And that's what we're all here for. Right. We're all here to help each other out. Like, we're all on the same journey together. Maybe at different points of our journey, but we're doing the same thing called life together, so why not do it together? You know? And I think especially in our work and where we're at right now. Yeah. Why not help. I. I think there is so much beauty in that. And like you said, when you act from a space of abundance, you're just going to attract more abundance.

Yeah, right.

Than acting from a space of lack, so. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And. And speaking of online, I see the. You're sort of starting to grow your online presence.

I'm trying to.

Yeah.

How are you.

How are you finding that. Because I guess for a lot of people, as I said before 2020, like, there were people who did online and some people who didn't had a. Maybe had a presence, but yeah. Really follow it. And now everyone's having to kind of really figure out. I mean, I know, like, me trying to figure out Instagram is. Has been a hilarious journey.

Yeah.

Story for another day, but.

No, but yours looks great, by the way.

Getting. Getting there. Getting there. It's all a process. I've made many mistakes, but. But yeah, it's.

You.

You kind of have to know. Right. So I've seen now that you sort of sort to post the odd thing and it looks like you're sort of. I mean, you've got some new photos.

Yeah.

Ramping up, sort of a. Sort of whole.

Yeah. I honestly, I just. So this is the thing. I just realized that it's. I'm growing through this process. Right. And I never. I really wasn't the whole, like, Instagram type of person. And I. Even when I was in fashion, I was always behind the camera. I would be styling things. I would be kind of like designing things, but I would never be in front of the camera. And so that was a big thing because when you're trying to be online, you have to be all there, right. As your face, especially when you're. You're representing yourself. And as yoga teachers, we are our own business. Right. And it's. It's a learning curve for me. I, you know, I never enjoyed, you know, posting photos and thinking of these captions, and it really never was my thing. Be like a yoga influencer kind of thing. Right. And right now, I think I'm still trying to figure out really, what is the core message that I want to bring to people through. Through my online presence. Right. I know that I would always be teaching yoga. This is something I know I'll do forever. And I know that with my breath work training, that's something also I want to start bringing to people, taking people through breathwork journeys. But I think I'm slowly trying to piece together. Yeah. Like, what do I stand for it? You know, I want to create again, still a space where. Where we're creating mental health awareness or creating a space where people feel like they can speak about these things or maybe pain. I've met a lot of students that struggle with pain, or all of a sudden they have an injury and they. They're debilitated by it. Right. And it's so sad to see. And I've been through that and I Know it. So I'm like, how do I now bring that message across where it's okay to. To feel pain, it's okay to. To be in pain, or there are days where you're in bed because you can't move and not to let yourself feel guilty about that. Right. So I think for me, as much as I'm trying to figure that out, it's. I'm also going through my own journey into. Yeah. What really is the message that I'm bringing across? Because I don't just want to. Yeah. Post photos for the sake of posting photos. Even though. Yes, sometimes social media, that's what you have to do just to be present. But. But I think there's a deeper layer that I'm trying to get into. And sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, Sharon, are you just, like, overthinking all of this now? Just fucking post a photo already. And it's hard. So, yeah, like, I think it's a fine balance. You know, online and technology has great benefits and I think if you know how to use it right with integrity, it's going to bring you really far. But I remember years back when, when I first moved back to Singapore was this whole big debate within the yoga industry of like, how much do you post on social media? What do you post on social media? As a yoga teacher, should you be saying this? Blah, blah, blah. And there was this disparity when the. Within the yoga community, I was like, that's not right, is it? And, you know, and teachers were getting attacked for seeing something that isn't that yogi. Or like they post something and, you know, they're not eat, they're not vegan, or they're vegan. But then they say all this stuff and it's just like, God, it's, it's such hard work. You know, maybe that also made me stay clear away from that, you know, like social media for a while. But, yeah, no, I think it's good because it's a channel in which people can come to. For, you know, content.

Yeah.

Advice that, you know, interaction. I think in a world that, you know, especially being isolated, we crave interaction more than ever. Maybe some more than us. I mean, I really enjoy lockdown.

I did too.

Yeah, I know. I really enjoy just going inwards and, you know, doing the trainings and having my meditation, my yoga every morning. But we're all humans and where we need interaction and relationships. So social media has created a good, great platform for us to connect. And like you said, you wouldn't have met all these other people if not for what's going on right now?

Without a doubt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. The technology is an interesting one because it's been really good in lots of ways. Yeah, but, and it's funny you. Were you talking about the debates about what yogi should and shouldn't pose because they're still going on and without, without sort of getting into, into the merits or whatever, although people can make their own conclusions. But there's the whole QAnon thing recently, which I haven't really been following, but the people who are peddling conspiracy theorists theories who are coming from the yoga and wellness world, and then there's been the backlash against them, which. Okay, I will opine on that one. Which I think is right because they're talking nonsense.

Yeah.

There's the whole cultural appropriation of yoga, which is, which is really big, big at the moment. Again, important discussions to be had. But yeah, there is that, particularly as somebody new coming to it like myself. But, but also for anybody else, what do you say? And if you can overthink what you say because you don't want to say the wrong thing and then be attacked, you don't want to then say nothing. And I think it just comes down to just being yourself.

Exactly.

If you say something and someone attacks you, you can decide if they have a point. And if they do have a point, you can learn from that and move on. And if they don't, then you know you're doing you right.

And again, it's a process of learning and growing. And then when someone attacks you or not, you question what's going on. Right. And so one big thing that I'm working on right now is triggers, which is a whole different topic. But when I'm triggered by something, for example, it's just to ask why, like why, why are you going through that trigger? And it's always a lesson to be learned from within. Right. And I think with the whole social media and online thing, or I think I, I don't know, I'm also learning as I go, but like to try and be as authentic as you can and you are going to make mistakes. We're never going to please everybody. Right. Even as teachers, we teach, not everyone's gonna love that class and you just learn from it. And I think one thing that I've realized recently for myself, the reason why I was, you know, not putting myself out there as much as I should have been or, you know, even in the past, doing videos and putting online is because of that fear of rejection and being attacked. Right. So I stood behind this wall and thinking that I'm safer behind all of this as compared to putting myself out there. And this is what I'm trying to unlearn now, to be more present. And if I make a mistake, if I say something that's wrong, or if people disagree with me, which will happen, then that's just something that I have to learn and hold my ground. Right. As long as I'm being true to what I'm putting out there, I think that's what matters the most and doing it with integrity.

So, yeah, the unlearning thing is. Is really interesting because I don't know if you find the same thing coming from your corporate background, but definitely coming from a law background. You, as a lawyer, you're generally risk averse and you, you generally own the side of perfection. So you stress over every comma, every full stop. You want to make sure what you send out is perfectly right and you kind of go over it and over and over and over it. And actually I had to unlearn that to be able to do what I'm doing now because there is no real playbook for what I'm doing now, because everyone does things in their own way and that's the beauty of it. But it's also something which takes some time to get used to.

Yeah.

And if you can get over that hurdle, then you can then start to sort of move along and sort of.

Exactly. I think that's when you can be your most authentic self.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I doubt. So let's move on to what we can't do at the moment. The retreat. So the retreat. So, yeah, I went on that retreat October, I think it was 2019 over in Bali, which was. Which was amazing. Completely different part of Bali to what I'd been to before.

Yeah.

And yeah, it was, it was really well put together a really good program. What made you want to do the retreat? Did you enjoy it? Would you do it again?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I definitely enjoyed it. So both my business partner and I, Jules, who you met, she's in Bali right now. We. Yeah, I. I think it was just something that we've always wanted to do to kind of like give people a space where they can unwind and just. Yeah. Let loose. Especially, you know, in Singapore. And you're working hard, as you know yourself just to create a space of. Yeah. Like unw. Finding and at the same time learning about yoga. And I think a goal for us with that particular retreat was to get to the roots of yoga. Not just the asanas, but really a little bit more behind it. The philosophy of yoga, what actually it stands for. Right. Yoga is a way of life, it's not just a physical practice. So really just going down to the very foundation of, of yoga. And you know, as with everything, when you have a strong foundation, then everything starts to grow and become strong. So yeah, I think for Jules and I, we've just always talked about, yeah, let's just do a retreat and bring a group of people together. And at that time the end goal was always to create corporate retreats. So to just bring teams to space and do your team bondings and blah blah. And that was actually our first retreat where it was just kind of more B2C. Right. We're just getting people, whoever that wanted to come. And yeah, Bali was kind of a no brainer because Jules is from there and it was, it was great fun. I think both Jules and I learned so much about it. But I think for me actually I think it was for both of us where we were just with people the entire time.

Yeah.

After the retreat, I remember on the way back in the van, both of us literally just passed out all the way back to Canggu and we're like, right, tomorrow we're doing absolutely nothing. So we just, we went to the beach late there, literally sat on a beanbag for hours and did nothing because it was so much of gift.

So much.

Yeah. And you know, I think now that you're teaching, you understand it too. People are like, oh, but you're only teaching like an hour class. You're like, you only have two classes a day. I'm like, you have no idea. But it's a lot of, of energy that's being exchanged and stuff. Right. So. But it was super rewarding. I think for us. That was kind of like a point where yeah. Like even as a teacher you're like, holy, I just did that. Like I just did a retreat. And you know, as a student you never, or at least for me, I was like, I never really thought that I would have run a retreat and people actually come to learn from me. Like it's so, it was so rewarding and so humbling and I would definitely do it again. Although right now it's is tricky. You just never really know. We actually had one planned for this year. Yeah. Also at the Alila, but this time in Ubud. But obviously that's just not going to happen right now. So hopefully in the near future Something would happen again. But it was an amazing experience. I. I thoroughly enjoyed hosting you guys and just being there with everybody and. Yeah, it was great.

Yeah. And it was the testimonials that you got. Obviously, you know that for us, the students, we all really enjoyed it as well.

Thank you.

What I liked about it, and it's funny now because I'm going to sort of maybe kind of contradict myself, but I remember I looked at your retreats before and they'd be interesting. But what always annoyed me was that they always like, yes, and the menu will be raw, it will be vegan, or. And at the time, being a committed meat is like, I'm not going somewhere, I'm being told what to eat.

Yeah.

And I remember I spoke to you guys about that with dinner one night, and what you said I really like, which is that you want people to kind of come and feel welcome and to enjoy themselves. They're there to enjoy it. You don't want them to feel like they're being dictated to. And why I say I'm now going to contradict myself is because it was only a few weeks after that retreat that I actually became vegan.

Yeah.

Still vegan now, but having that sort of space and not having that was interesting. And I've been trying to think, if I was running a retreat now, would I do the same thing? Because being vegan and having the thought process that I've got, it's just a real, for me, a real tension.

Yeah.

But I think it's definitely the right thing to do. And I think that's how you kind of get more people in. It's kind of making accessible. Yeah. And not sort of saying, well, you can come, but you can't.

Yeah. So, yeah, this is a very tricky one. And I've had this conversation with a lot of people, right. As. As a yogi, like, you're vegan or, you know, you're a vegetarian and stuff like that. I think, you know, we're all at different points in our journey. Once again, you. You can be a yogi, but you use. You still eat meat. I've known people that, even with your body types, they were vegan for a long time and then they got sick and then they needed certain things from meat. And the reason behind being vegan, I fully support. And I, you know, honestly, I. Yeah, like, I think it's. It's the right thing to do. Right. And this is going to, like, rile a lot of people up and things like that.

So we won't go Far I'm used to writing people. Yeah.

But I think do what feels right for you. Again, doing it authentically. For us, the reason why we gave that option was because, yes, we wanted people to choose what they wanted. And it's not that we didn't stand for being vegan or vegetarian. I think even Jules is, she was like fully vegan for the longest time. And you know, one thing that I, I actually read a book called Embodied Enlightenment recently and she was talking about how, how do we live in our current climate as humans who are, we're the most advanced we've ever been. We are, we have all the technology, etc, but we're also on a spiritual path and well, to be fair, we're all spiritual beings living this human experience, as Brene Brown said. But you know, with this. But what she said was that you can't be vegan. You can eat meat or whatever, it's a conscious choice, but make it a conscious choice and know the reason why you're doing it. Right. So as long as you put into context why you're doing it or for example, if you do choose to eat fish or meat, to acknowledge that, you know, maybe even say a word of gratitude for the animal that died for you. Because a lot of things, not just eating, but what we do now, we're doing it unconsciously. Oh yeah, right. So what she was talking about, which I, I found it really interesting, was to bring more consciousness to your actions. And if you're choosing to eat meat, why, and if you really do decide to go for it, then say thank you. And yeah, so if you do run a retreat and you decide you're deciding on the menu, you'll figure it out. At that point you'll just, you know, your gut will tell you what to do.

Yeah, I think so. And it's a fine balance because, I mean, I'll probably talk more about this in future episodes but I was very much, I am, yes, I'm going to be vegan, but I'm not going to be one of those annoying vegans in commas. Yeah, but I, I must confess that I find myself biting my tongue a.

Lot more these days because I think when you believe in something so bad, and for us yogis, we believe in non harming the reason why we exactly, you know, believe in not eating meat. Right. It's a non harming aspect. And if you feel so passionately about that, of course you're going to try and convince people. It's like how, you know, we, as teachers, we tell people that yoga is good for you. Right. And not everyone's gonna want to hear it, but I think if it makes you feel like you've done the right thing, then that's all that matters. Yeah, exactly.

And I think what you said about making a conscious choice is key because that's one of the things that I got from yoga, and I'm sort of trying to kind of get across to people in this podcast, is to live. Live a life. Intention. So you're intentionally doing whatever it is that you're doing. Yeah. You're not reacting to a situation. You're not just kind of doing it blindly? Because we do lots of things where we don't question.

Oh, absolutely.

You know, and this is the last thing I'll say about veganism for this episode, but I know for me, once I decide to make that shift and I started to think, but why do I. I never really questioned.

Yeah, exactly.

Just something that you just did. It was there, brought up doing it. Everybody else did it. Everything was geared towards it.

Yeah.

But when I started to question it, that's when the shift happened.

Yeah.

So, yeah, as long as people just, as you say, think about why they're doing something and make their piece that they're doing it from a conscious place, then, you know, then that's fine.

I think so. Yeah.

So, yeah, I know there's a lot of people who are gonna.

I know we're gonna have to do.

A whole other episode, but, hey, I'm fully, fully expecting that. Yeah, it's fine. I can live with my choice. So how do you balance being a yogi and an entrepreneur? I've. I must. I'm finding that a little bit difficult in terms of trying to advance my learning on the business side of things and do certain things and courses, etc. But then also maintain my daily practice and my meditation, my breath work, because I think both are important. But it's. It is sometimes kind of hard to get that balance.

Oh, it's so hard. And I'm glad that you brought that up, because I'm still trying to figure that out. And I think for the longest time, when I started Locomotive, it was. I was kind of doing 50, 50 on both ends. I was burning the candle on both ends, you know, and I just felt so tired and so burnt out. I'll be, you know, at that point with Yoga lab, when I first started teaching, I'll be doing like 15 to 20 classes a week and still trying to figure out how to grow locomotive and meeting all these guys in the Companies trying to convince them that they need to do yoga and meditation. So actually it was only very recently that I kind of decided that for this year, 2020, I am going to focus on myself and upskill myself. So I was gonna do my next heater training. I was gonna try and, you know, do another course in something, and that ended up being breath work for me over lockdown because I wasn't able to do my next teacher training. And obviously with COVID everything shifted. But I had actually decided with my business partner to kind of, okay, put Locomotive on hold. Because for 2019, it was a great year for us and we, we did a lot of things, hit a lot of milestones, but I think we also needed to kind of reassess what we're doing, bringing out to the companies and what they're actually looking for. So again, we kept going back to drawing board and it's hard to balance. I. I think I would say don't stress yourself out too much. Right. Because I go through this cycle of when I'm not teaching, for example, I had this constant anxiety inside me where I was like, I need to be doing something with Locomotive. I need to be speaking to companies, I need to be figuring out what to do with the website. I need to business develop. And I, you know, there are days where I got so anxious because of that stress that I ended up doing nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I was like, okay, shrine, that's not healthy. So I think for me, I had to consciously tell myself, it's okay if I'm not teaching and I'm not doing anything with Locomotive. I can take a day off, I can go to the pool and just read a book, you know, and that's, that's completely okay. So right now I think I'm finally at a place where, okay, with Locomotive, it's there. I'm not actively business developing or whatsoever right now. If companies need us, we are still there. But my goal was to focus on myself, you know, doing this whole social media thing or just really building up myself as a brand and also learning what I want to provide. So with if I have a clear vision, if, okay, well, I, I want to just teach yoga full time and do breath work. That's what I'm gonna do for right now. And I'm not going to stress myself out with the other things with the business because it is hard and we need to, we also need a break from it as teachers. Even with the practice. I don't know if you feel it, but there are days where I'M practicing and I'm not actually a student in that practice. I'm trying to get inspired. I'm trying to learn more things, you know.

On your sequence for the next class.

Exactly right. So I have to. There are certain days where I practice and I'm like, okay, this is just my practice. I'm a student and I'm practicing for me and that's it. And yeah, it's never going to be a perfect balance because there's always going to be something in back of your head being like, I, I need to practice, but I also need to do this course to learn something. But maybe just give a day in the week to, you know, really check out from all of it. And I recently I was just, I told my friends, I was like, you know what, I just need a yoga detox. Like as ironic as that sounds, I'm like, I'm not going to practice yoga, I'm not going to teach. I'm just gonna take a break from all of it. Because when you're living and breathing in and it's your work and you're teaching every single day, it can get a bit tricky to find that break or balance.

Yeah, I think that's the misconception is that a, that yoga is a cure all and will cure everything about you. And also that if you're, if you're a yoga teacher that you're always positive, you've got everything figured out and it's just like, no, we're, we're real people.

Oh yeah.

You know, it's not like we're going off and sitting on a mountain and sort of practicing.

I wish I would love to do that.

Yeah. I mean I love my, that's one of the things I loved about my, my teacher training. Although it was in Singapore and it would be nice to have been elsewhere, it was still this immersion in yoga. Basically 20 days, that's all you thought about. But it's not the real world. You have to function in the real world. You get angry. I mean, you have to stand in queues, you get annoyed. People don't do what they're supposed to. I mean all those sorts of things still happen to you. Yeah. It's just that you, you're now aware of them and also you have the tools to, to deal with them, so.

Exactly. Yeah. I know sometimes people are like, oh, but like you were a mad this or like you're stressed out. Like why? I'm like, dude, like I, I just teach yoga. I'm not like, I'm not Buddha.

Yeah. I'm not enlightened.

Exactly. I want to be.

Not there yet.

Exactly. This is why we're doing the yoga.

Yes. You know, all these. All these misconceptions, trying to. Trying to demystify them here. So we're coming towards the end, but I still got a few more questions. I'm a big fan of morning routines.

Yes.

Do you have one?

Yes.

And what is it?

I wake up and I meditate, and that's the first thing I do. And then I make my bed.

Okay.

And then I go brush my teeth. And during lockdown especially, I was so strict with this because there was no routine whatsoever. You kind of created your own routine. So I sleep with my phone on airplane mode. And in the morning I'll wake up, I'll meditate first thing, make my bed, brush my teeth, not turn on my phone. I'll read a book or journal, even if it's just reading a page. Just kind of like get in tune with myself. And if I actually, during lockdown, I would meditate and then I'll practice, although right now it's a bit tricky. And then only after I've done all of that would I turn my phone on. Okay. So that is kind of my little morning routine. Routine. It's not super fancy, but it was just one of those things that really kept me sane during lockdown. And even now, like, I have to meditate the, you know, one side straight. Yeah. Because if I don't, then it's kind of like in the back of my head and, like, I haven't done it and I'm not in check, I'm not grounded. And there are times where I literally have to sit on the floor so that I'm like. And tell myself to ground down.

Yeah.

Because otherwise my day is just like chaos. And so. Yeah, that's. That's my morning routine.

Yeah. You notice that shift when you don't meditate. I was. Got into that habit of meditating and practicing every morning.

Yeah.

And yeah. The last sort of couple of weeks, that's a bit out of whack with the time difference and lack of sleep and. Yeah, I definitely, definitely notice a difference. Yeah.

Right.

So, like, when I can get back onto my routine, I'll just feel a lot more. A lot more sense and a lot more in control of my day.

Yeah, exactly. And I think, like, that's what all these people who've been doing researches on having that morning routine, or like, waking up at five in the morning and starting all that stuff. There's so much. So much truth to it. Yeah. So I always tell people because I felt a lot of friends and students. Students ask, like, do you meditate every day? When. How is the best time? Blah, blah, blah. How long do you do it for? I would say if you're just starting on your meditation journey, even just, you know, a minute of sitting up in your bed and just breathing, that conscious breathing of, you know, just inhal feeling from the base of your spine to the crown of your head back down, just do it even five times. That in itself is already meditation. And that's gonna help you tap into your body, into your breath, and you're gonna be more conscious throughout your day, so.

Exactly.

Yeah. If you're just starting out meditation, it's not this big giant thing where you can't do it. And people get so overwhelmed by the word meditation, but it's just as simple as tuning in. But I think that's where people find it hard to. Because they don't want to be aware of what's going on inside sometimes. Right. But yeah, just five deep breaths in the morning, the moment you wake up, will make a tremendous difference.

And I think that's why breath work is. Is important and is going to be. Is going to be quite popular. Because meditation, as you say, it's like with the yoga, everyone says I'm not flexible enough meditation. Everyone says, oh, I have too much going on my mind. I can't sit still. But with breath work, everybody breathes. Right? Everybody has to breathe. So it's probably a slightly easier thing for them to get to.

Yeah.

And then if they can start to increase the length that they focus on that breath for, then hopefully that will sort of. They'll fall into sort of meditation without realizing that they're doing it.

Exactly.

But they'll be getting those benefits of just that. That sort of focus, that stillness.

Yeah.

That not always being on the go.

Yeah. And I think, you know, with. Yeah. You're not flexible and you can't do yoga, but that's why we do the yoga. So become flexible or that's why we do the mat meditation. To calm our crazy minds down. Yeah. But again, it's. It's a process. It is an ongoing journey. There are days where meditation feels super easy or yoga feels great, but there are days where I remember times where I was just crying on the mat because I was in so much pain, or it just. You just felt like you weren't there, or meditation was so hard, your mind's just crazy. But someone was saying that you know, if, if you find that you're really stressed or you don't have five minutes for meditation, then you need an hour for meditation. Right. Yeah. Which is so true. Yeah. So.

What events do you have planned for the future, if anything? I know we're, we're still sort of kind of in a lockdown, so.

Yeah, to be honest, not much. I think what I'm really excited for is to just get my offline breath work training done. So I've completed the online training. I need to do the in person intensive before I'm properly certified to, you know, host journeys. That might be the first thing that I'll do once I, you know, like, once I finish the training and to host a breathwork journey for people. Other than that, not many big events just because, yeah, it's, it's kind of unpredictable right now. Even with the retreat that we were planning for this year, we had to cancel that and who knows what's going to happen right now? So nothing major, I would say. Just. Yeah, I'm really excited about the breath work training and just being able to, To. Yeah. Hold that space for, for people who need it. Yeah.

And on the podcast, trying to direct people towards their purpose.

Yeah.

Have you found your purpose, do you think? And if so, what. What is that?

I think I'm closer. So. Yeah, like I asked my. It's a big.

Yeah.

Billion dollar question. Is.

Certainly is.

Yeah.

It's not an easy one.

No, I would think so. I, I think I definitely do question it sometimes, but I've realized that it really is helping people kind of be on their journey in their own way and helping people through yoga and meditation and breath work. Yeah. Like I said, you know, it's weird to say that I'm going to be doing something forever because forever is like so such a long time. But I know that teaching will always be a part of me. And that's. I, I think that's what I'm here for, you know, to share my journey, my story and to help these guys wherever they're at, through the practice of yoga. So, yeah, I think finding your purpose is such a big thing because there are days where, you know, I wake up and I'm like, maybe I'm not meant to be teaching yoga. Right. And like, oh, yeah, this is gonna be funny. Right? So I went to see a tarot card reader because I'm so yogi and all that. Went to see an astrologer. Tarot card reader or a reader. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know the Horoscopes and things. I don't know all about horoscopes, by the way, but anyway, my friend wanted to see a terror car reader. I was like, yeah, sure, you know, I'll go with you. And then I went to this reading I've never done in my life. And so. And yeah, when we're talking and you basically ask questions based on the cards that you pull. And so I, I told Tara creator. I was like, yeah, you know, I'm. I'm teaching yoga, and this is what I do. And she goes, you know, I, I don't feel like that's your, that's your purpose. I think you should be doing more. She's like, you're working too hard for your money. I sat there and I was like, what? She goes, yeah, you know, like, I, you. She literally said, you've been doing this for a couple years now. You've had your fun. Maybe it's time to, like, go, oh, my goodness. It's like your parents just like, oh, my God, now you're gonna make me question my entire life. And if you're a tarot card reader, you're telling me I'm not living my true purpose and I should be like, I don't know, whatever she said I should be. And I was like, no, this is where I was like, you know what you're full of. Yeah, I discard that. Exactly. And I was like, no, I, I, I think I know what I'm doing, and I think I'm here for a reason. And, hey, maybe that will change. I don't know. You know, maybe I'll, Yeah, just end up doing retreats or whatever, but I think yoga will always be a part of my work.

Yeah.

So that, I would say, is my purpose. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah, that's good. Good answer. And final question. As a corporate escapee myself, what three tips would you give to people like you were in that sort of environment who are trying to sort of figure out what to do, what they might do next?

I think, really to. Not just to trust yourself, but, you know, take that leap of faith. Right. Do it now. Especially if there's this little voice inside you that that's telling you try something different, go for it. Because you know what? The corporates are always going to be there, Right. If you decide that doing something different or if it fails, if starting that little business of yours fails or you realize that actually you don't want to teach, teach, at least you've done it. You've gone through that process and journey and Learn, and you will learn something from it. You can always go back, you know, And I've had friends who are like, yeah, you know, how did you do that? How did you take the risk? Blah, blah. And it's so easy. I think as humans, we always. It's easy to be in that comfortable space. Right. I think also living in Singapore, it's so easy. And once you get stuck in that space, it's hard to take that risk, to be in discomfort. But that's when the most growth happens. When you're uncomfortable, when you're broke, when you are questioning everything about your life, when you have almost no money in your bank account, that's when you know, that's when you grow. That's when you try and figure out how to make something happen. And sometimes when things get so hard, you don't really have a choice but to figure it out, you know? So I think for people who are trying to make a change, there's. It's scary. It really is. But I think you got to surround yourself with the right people who give you that support system, who encourages you, who doesn't, you know, like, question your worth based on this job. Surround yourself with people that support you, and then just. Just do it. Because you can always. You can always go back. But if you choose to stay where you are in that space of comfort, but you absolutely hate your life, and you might be there forever, and you're just gonna be miserable. Right. So just do the thing. Like, feel the fear. There's a quote. Feel the fear and do it anyway. So. Yeah, and. Yeah, I. I don't know. Like, I. It. I think I was very lucky because I had such a great support system around me. My family was very supportive, even when I was like, yeah, well, I'm just gonna pack up and go to India and, like, figure it out. And I think for you, too, you, you know, with your wife and your friend supporting you, like, it made that transition easier.

Yes, of course.

So when you have that. Yeah, just go for it. And then if you realize that you hate it, you can always go back.

Cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do it anyway. Do it now. Yeah, it's definitely. Definitely my mantra. Yeah, I have it stuck there on my. On my desk in front of me.

Yeah, exactly.

There's always those times where you're saying, well, I could do this. I could. And it's like, well, no, just. Just doing now.

Yeah.

What's the worst that could happen?

Absolutely.

So cool. All right, well, let's go to a few quick fire questions to End off. Okay, so start. Let's start with practice.

Okay.

Lead or self? Led.

Led. I love a lead class. And just tell me what to do and I'll do it. I love both, but I'm gonna go with lead right now. Especially because I haven't practiced in a studio for a really long time. I'm just like, I really miss that. So lead.

Yeah, No, I agree. I'm finding it hard to get into a studio with the restrictions. So, yeah, I just really want to go to a class I know myself.

And, like, I just want someone to adjust me right now, tell me what to do. Yeah, okay.

Hong Kong or Singapore?

Oh, this is a hard one. Hong Kong.

Interesting.

I don't know. There are pros and cons of both of them. Yeah, I love both.

Yeah.

Yeah. And, yeah, I. I can't. I can't choose. That's a hard one.

Okay. Yeah. Looking back with hindsight, what's the one piece of advice you would give to your corporate self?

Oh, God. I think it would have just been to take things a little bit more lightly or, you know, just to. To take a breath and know that that's. Even if a deal doesn't come through. Even if I didn't place a person, like, who cares? Right? Like, well, we're still going to. We're still here. We're still living. Like, it's not that big of a deal. Like, things are not that big of a deal. That's what I would tell myself.

As I used to say to myself in law, no one died.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I didn't actually believe. I used to say, to try and convince myself. Yeah, I mean, my mindset now, but, yeah, of course not. No one died. But in that environment, it's a little bit different to convince yourself you're trying to.

True. Yeah. I mean, now. Especially in the situation we're in right now, like, it puts things into perspective. Right. So I think then, yeah, like, no one died and you're still here and things are okay. Things will be okay. Okay, that's it. Yeah.

Sounds good. Favorite yoga pose. And why.

I mean, everyone would say Shavasana. Yeah.

Actually, my guest last week says Shivasi.

Yeah, Let me see. I would actually go with Shavasana. I'm go do a supported Shavasana where I have, like, a bolster under my legs and, like, my arms and blocks and, like, blankets and things on me. More like a younger Shavasana, just because it feels really good in my lower back.

Yeah.

So that's probably it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Good. So In a class, Music or no music?

I do both. So with a vinyasa practice, I typically play music, but there are sessions where you just feel like no music is right. Especially in a hatha practice where, you know, people are newer and you really gotta, like, talk about a certain posture and get into the nitty gritty of things. No music is best for me, but I. I don't mind both. I really am a music person, and I love sometimes flowing in a really dynamic vinyasa class to great music. Yeah, both.

Do you have a favorite playlist that you pick?

I actually kind of curate my own playlist. I'll, like, put music together and that. Yes. No particular one. I think it just kind of, like, I go with how I feel. Yeah.

Cool. What's your best almost worthwhile investment of the last five years?

Over the last five years, what are we? 20. 20. Okay. Oh, I mean, this would be. Yeah. My teacher training.

It's almost like exactly the same thing.

When I wrote that question, I think it would definitely have been that.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's. Kind of. The fact that it just kind of completely changes your whole mindset in your life. Is there. Yeah, yeah.

It made my life so much simpler.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And are there any quotes you refer to often or you live your life by?

I had one. I'm having a brain fart right now. Ah, this is. This is tricky. Let me think. One thing that I really love was the Brene Brown one where she said, we're all spiritual beings living this human experience.

Okay.

Because I think, especially when you're in this kind of, like in this industry of the wellness world, sometimes we. We get really hard on ourselves. Like you said, you know, we're still humans, right. And we're trying to figure out the right thing to do and not do the wrong thing, blah, blah, blah. But we, you know, we are spiritual beings, and everybody has that spirituality in them. A lot of people think that spirituality is this thing to attain or, like a goal to reach, but we all have it in us, and we're just living this human experience where we make mistakes. Mistakes. And we're just trying to figure out as we go. So I just really connected with that. And I think, you know, another thing is, I don't know if this is a particular quote or anything, but just maybe it's feel a fear and do it anyway. Like, just take that chance and. And put yourself out there. I know it's hard, and even for me, like, the whole social media thing, it's hard because I'M like, oh, my God, this person is not gonna like this photo or like, I'm gonna say the wrong things or this content isn't right or people are going to reject me. And these are all very real feelings that we feel. Right. No one likes to get rejected. But I think it's just kind of leaning into these emotions and fear and just go with it because do you really want to regret it? And I think, you know, we. We're not here forever. Right. And. But we don't question our mortality. You know, but when you actually do, it's. Yeah. Like you're not here forever, so why not just make that change or like the one little change in your life to. To better yourself, maybe. And honestly, like, you won't. You won't regret it. I think I would be the person who rather say I tried it and I failed then. I've never done it before because I was scared. So it's just literally like, just go out there and do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So true. I think as we were saying before we started, there are people who. Many people who won't do it. So if you can just take the step and actually try something, you've already won. And this is a case of figuring the rest out as you go along. So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And sometimes it's baby steps. It doesn't have to be this drastic change. People think like, oh, my God, I have to quit my job, drop everything and do this thing and go to a mountain and sit there for like a whole month. But, like, you don't have to. I think it's just making little steps to it. You know, it's like, I. I don't know, going for a class or like learning something new about starting a business or whatever it is just taking little steps that's gonna slowly bring you closer to what that goal is. Right?

Yeah. And I think that's why if you can figure out your purpose or have a sense of what it is and then just take even. It's just one step each day because you know where you're going. So if you know where you're going, then it's easy to kind of reject the things that don't fit in with your path. But if you don't know where you're going, like a lot of us don't, and I certainly didn't really. You'll kind of pick everything, you know, and you won't kind of think, well, this doesn't really fit in with my vision, so I won't do that.

Yeah.

Just Kind of. Well, I'm kind of expected to do this or it looks like the right thing to do here, or whatever. So, yeah, having that clear vision is. Is very important and you'll take some time to get there.

It does, but.

But what, what we said, yoga, meditation, breath work, all of those things are really good at kind of getting you to. To that point.

Yeah. Like, finding your purpose is a hard one. I think it took me years and years and years to figure that out. And I think I was lucky to kind of like fall into the path of yoga and then it organically happened. But I was chatting to a friend recently too. You know, corporate job, works and shipping, and he's just like. Like, I don't know what my purpose is. I'm earning all this money, I'm doing a great job, but whatever. But I just feel like I have no purpose. And my advice at that time, I was just like, you know, it's a hard time for everyone right now, and you're questioning, and it's great. It's great that people are starting to question their purpose, but we're also creative beings. Everybody is a creative being. And when we don't harness that creativity becomes depression and anxiety. It doesn't just, you know, become stagnant. It actually goes the other way into depression and anxiety. So we need to harness that creative side of us. I was like, well, just do something that you enjoy, whether it's picking up a new instrument or, you know, like going for boxing or whatever. Something that takes you away from your work, per se. Right. But something that's creative, because when you start to tap again into that creative being in you, then things will start to unfold. And that's when maybe you get closer to understanding what that. That purpose is. But I would say, you know, don't stress out about also, like, trying to find it. Like, right now, like you said, it. It takes baby steps and it'll happen.

Yeah. And as you say, being aware and questioning is the first steps.

Exactly. Yeah.

And to kind of bring us down from the heady heights of finding purpose.

Yeah.

Aloe or Lululemon?

Lululemon.

I think I've lived in Lululemon.

I know. And it's just like to. I'm not. So it's not so much about the brand itself, but it just.

It feels good.

Yeah. And it works like, I mean, every day. It doesn't smell. It's my first pair, has lasted me since day one that I started teaching, and I still wear it today, so. Yeah.

And finally, what would be your dream retreat destination.

Oh, this is a really hard one. I don't know. I'm gonna say somewhere in South America just because I really want to go to South America, but I have no idea where yet. Okay. Yeah. What about you?

I haven't been to South America either. So that'll be. That would be on the list.

Maybe one day we can do a retreat together.

Yeah, I'd be up for that. Yeah, I'll hold you that. I would love to do that. I mean, Barley's always great.

Bali's always great.

One of the casualties of lockdown for me was I supposed to spend a month in Bali in June, which I was really looking forward to, and that didn't happen. So, yeah, Bali is always a winner. But. But yeah, South America would be. Would be good. So. Yeah, well, we'll keep in touch on that point.

Yes, exactly.

Well, thanks. That's been a fantastic conversation. Really happy to have got you on and yeah, as I said, having you as one of the first people on my list has definitely proven to be the right decision.

Thank you.

Hopefully we'll. We'll speak again. I mean, once. Once there's no. No lockdown. You know, your. Your breath work qualified. You're kind of.

Yeah.

Figured out where your current direction is in terms of the business. And. And yeah, I'm still hoping to try and take one of your classes at some point. So.

Yeah, do it.

But yeah. Thanks again.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah. Have a good day.

Thank you so much. You too.

Thanks, Sharon.

Alrighty.

Pearls of wisdom being dropped there by Sharan on the Yoga Den podcast. I'd love to know what resonated with you. Drop me a line on Instagram, heogadanpodcast and Ryan Spenceyoga. Let me know what you'll be implementing in your own life going forward. As always, if you like the show hit subscribe. Give us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. This really helps in getting the show out to others and lets me know to keep creating more episodes. Pleased to say we got our first five star review last week. Thank you to whoever sent that in and we look forward to receiving many more. Until next time, eat plants, give thanks, do yoga, peace.

Sa.