Yvette Tee - Meditation Is The Key To Clarity

So meditation is a way of training your mind so that when life is not so easy and life is turbulent, you can still manage the turbulence with a calm and stable mind. So you manage it in a responsive manner rather than a reactive manner, which is often compulsive in nature and unconscious in nature. So what meditation has done for me is totally that.

Welcome to the Yoga Dental. Are you a stressed out cog in the corporate wheel? Do you find yourself asking, what am I doing and why am I doing it? Then the Yoga Den is the place for you. I'm your host, Ryan Spence, AKA the big law, dropout, writer, yoga teacher, and your guide on the path to well being through yoga. Yoga helped me find my purpose, change my mindset and my life. And in this podcast, I'll share how to live a life of intention. No reaction. Each week I'll be talking a variety of guests, uncovering pearls of wisdom to help you figure out where you're heading to, where you really want to go. I won't find your purpose for you, but I'll help you plan the route. So sit back and grab a drink. I've been expecting you. Hello and welcome to episode 14 of the Yoga Den podcast. If you're stuck where you are and you know that you don't want to do it, but you don't know what you do want to do, like I said in episode 10, you need to create a vision. Envision the life that you do want so that you can take steps towards it each day. But in order to envision that life, to create that strategy, make that plan, you need to have clarity of mind. Without that clarity, you're just running around on that hamster wheel internally, constantly lurching from crisis to crisis and not really having that time to sit and plan and think about where you are and what you want to do. How do you do that? For me, it was meditation. I lean heavily into my meditation practice. I still do now. Particularly when things are a little bit crazy and haywire. Just taking that time to sit and be still, not do, just be and focus. Focus on the breath or on the guided meditation, whatever it may be, just creates that space to let the mind settle. Yes, you might be thinking about what you're going to have for dinner that night. Yes, you might be thinking about what you have to do for work later, but it teaches you to acknowledge those thoughts and let them go. Over time, you start to notice that clarity. And that takes me to today's guest, Yvette T. Yvette is a yoga teacher and also a mindfulness and meditation coach. So I guess you could say she's an all round well being coach. I was introduced to Yvette by a regular listener to the podcast who suggested that Yvette and I connect that we probably had some things in common. And so we met for a coffee and proceeded to jabber away nonstop about corporate life, corporate wellness, yoga, meditation, and a whole host of other things in between. And so I knew that I had to get Yvette on the show to share her experience of how corporate burnout led her to yoga and an ultimately fulfilling life. And I hope that you guys can take a lot from this episode, particularly in relation to meditation and the benefits. Hearing how Yvette leaned on her practice and hearing on how she guides others to develop a meditation practice and extols the benefits in the corporate world of what meditation can do for you and the importance of it in maintaining your. Your well being. So, as always, you know what to do. Go ahead, grab a drink and let's do this. Okay. Today in the yoga den, we have Yvette T. Yvette, how you doing?

Hello. How are you, Ryan?

I'm good. Thank you for joining me. Good to have you here. So a little bit of background. We, we actually were connected by a regular listener to the show who thought that we should kind of catch up and chat. We might have some things in common. And yeah, we went and had a coffee and basically didn't stop talking. So it's good. I'm glad you agreed to be on the show.

Thank you very much for having me on the show.

No problem. I think we're going to have a really good chat and hopefully get some good tips for a lot of people out there. So let's kick off. You've obviously been teaching yoga and meditation for a number of years now and we're going to get into that as we always do on the show. But I'd like to kick off by exploring what your life was like before yoga. So what were you doing in your previous life before yoga stole you away?

How many previous lives ago?

I'm sure there aren't that many.

Well, after university, which I graduated in Singapore, I was fortunate to join the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Singapore. And I worked with them for six years where two of them were in Singapore in the protocol department, where I looked after visiting visiting dignitaries, prime ministers and presidents.

Wow.

And then after that I got posted to Geneva where I worked in the Singapore representative office, which is equivalent to an embassy, where I looked after the administration of the embassy as well as attended several meetings in the United nations representing Singapore in human rights and health issues, etc. Etc. So that was fun.

Okay.

And I also attended, I didn't attend myself, but I accompanied a lot of visiting Singapore ministers when they went to Davos for the World Economic Forum. So I had lots of fun in that job.

Wow, that sounds. Well, I mean, from the outside it sounds quite a glamorous role. I'm pretty sure that on the inside you're going to tell me that it wasn't and dash all of those hopes, but no, being around all those, all those interesting, high profile people. Yeah.

It gave me a lot of confidence though, and taught me to treat others exactly like an individual, no matter where they come from or what background they are and whether they are Prime Minister or royalty. I mean, they're human beings after all. But of course, you know, they require special treatment.

Yeah.

And being the person that I am, who is often a perfectionist, I try to do the best and make sure that as comfortable and the trip goals as well organized as possible.

Okay. And so Singapore, Geneva, London. That's quite a. Quite a trip.

It is. So in London, after Geneva, I moved to London, got married, moved to London and then was with the Singapore Monetary Authority of Singapore where we promoted Singapore as an international financial center.

Okay.

That was for two years and I returned to Singapore in 2000.

Wow. So, yeah, it sounds like quite a high powered career, international career.

Well, it sounds like it. But I, I was very fortunate with where I went, what I did. It was fun. It was an exposure I could never have imagined. I had my own house, my own car at a very young age. I was living overseas in Switzerland, one of the most expensive cities. Well, then Geneva and then 2000, I came back and that was my turning point.

Okay. And so talking about your turning point on your, your website, you say that difficult circumstances in your life led you to take up yoga. I know for many people difficult circumstances and that could be stress, anxiety, or some sort of trauma kind of leads them to the mat. I think it's helpful for listeners to hear how yoga can help with working through those difficult times. So if you tell us a little bit about kind of what happened and what led you to the mat, and then we'll kind of move further into your yoga journey from there.

Okay. So I'm from Singapore, come from a traditional Chinese family. My parents brought it brought me up in a very strict upbringing. I didn't have a lot of freedom when I was growing up. So when I had this chance to go to Geneva. I jumped at it then. Back then, when I was that young, the ultimate dream was really to get married and be happy. Right. So I thought happiness was something you do for yourself, create for yourself, and then you become happy afterwards. So I did marry somebody that I loved. But then the marriage didn't work out, so we moved to London and I returned to Singapore. So the marriage didn't work out. I left London to return to Singapore and I started to live with my parents again, back to the lion's den, which was not a good idea. And then I wanted a career change because I got a little lost and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do afterwards. In fact, I actually moved on to do public relations. For a few years. I was with Ogilvy Amita.

Okay. Yeah.

And then subsequently I joined Banyan Tree Hotels and Resorts. But I actually found Yoga back in 2000 when I returned to Singapore, I was a complete mess. Stressed, disorientated, lost. Yeah, complete mess, really.

Okay.

So I don't know whether any of you out there who's been through difficult times, it's hard to find peace and calmness. You know, like people say, stay calm, breathe, be. Be peaceful. You just can't do that if you have no training.

Yeah.

So I took myself for a holiday in Thailand and they offered some yoga classes. In the result, there was a beautiful Thai lady there. I didn't know anything about yoga, never done it before, and I decided to give it a try after about two to three lessons. I was in a position, it's called Tadasana Triangle pose.

Yeah.

And suddenly I had this immense sense of peacefulness and calmness that just came over me. And I thought to myself, what is this? Like, this is bizarre. Like I'm going through a really difficult time, but I can feel calm and peaceful and connected to the world.

Yeah.

So when I returned to Singapore, I found a teacher. I studied from her, with her for four years, and in 2004, I became a yoga teacher.

Wow. Okay, so it sounds like you were almost immediately hooked on the practice.

I was. So before I got into yoga, I wasn't that active or fit to start with in the sense of the word. So when I was, I struggled with yoga. The different poses and holding in even the side planks or a balance pose was difficult for me. But, you know, after regular practice, I was really hooked on it. Like, I went for classes four to five times a week, even though, you know, back then there was no the transportation from where I used to work was a long trip away from the yoga center. Like I spent money going there and. But I so enjoyed it and yoga really helped me gain confidence. My body changed, I became fit and toned. But I always knew that yoga was beyond skin, skin deep.

Yeah.

I knew that it worked with your mind, your emotions, etc, and subsequently I learned meditation from other teachers and became a meditation teacher in 2010, 2011.

Okay. So yeah, I think what you said about the physical side of it and then going beyond that is a common theme. I think that the physical attracts most of us. It attracted me to the practice. Practice, whether it's that you want to be strong and toned or whether you just kind of want to be able to move freely and be able to touch your toes. But there is a deeper part of it to that and I guess I'd like to ask you, could you identify the particular point at which your practice became less about the physical asana, the physical postures, and more about sort of looking inwards and starting to sort of rediscover yourself.

So as everybody can see it around the world, there's a misunderstanding about yoga that is all physical, etc. But yes, there's a lot of physical elements to yoga. And the reason why I see that is because if your body is not comfortable, you are suffering from joint pain or weakness or stiffness. There's no way you can look after your mind because your body will be troubling you. So you need this body to be not a nuisance, but an asset.

Yeah.

And the moment this body becomes pain free, light, comfortable on its own, then you can start working on your mind. But if you are often suffering from pain in your body, it's really hard to work on your mind because as you know, whenever you're sick, you're having a cold or it's like flu or fever, there's no way you feel comfortable, you're uncomfortable. So the physical aspect of yoga is important. But don't put so much importance into doing like a peacock pose or a handstand. You know, to me that is not important. The most important thing is when you're doing yoga practice, you're focusing on what you're doing, whether whatever pose it is, it could be a Shavasana, it could be a sitting pose, it could be the most simplest pose ever. And you're just there, sitting, sitting in the pose and being in the moment, following the breath without any thoughts in your mind and just being there.

Yeah, focus. I think you're right. I like what you said about the body as an asset. I think that's. I haven't heard it put it in those words before, but I think it's a really good way of putting it because the body, the body is an asset, but the body is a, is a machine. And in order for the machine to run, it has to have the mind, it has to have the breath as well. So it can't work on its own. The three, you have to connect the three. So if you are just going to class to get into peacock pose or to do a handstand, chances are you probably won't get there because you haven't mastered the other parts of what make you tick the other parts of the machine. So I think that that's the disconnect for a lot of people. And what one of the things that I know there's a lot of people out there trying and one of the things I'm trying to do as well is to kind of get people to sort of understand and to sort of be open minded and to sort of accept that these are the sides of it are just as if not more important and than the physical.

Totally agree with you. And with regards to mental health, see, one person can go for different kind of meditations all the time. They can use a Calm app or a Zen app. There's nothing wrong with these apps, they are brilliant apps. But if you don't understand how your mind is, is working. Like for example, today you look up in the sky and you see like there are rain clouds and it's raining and let's say you hate the rain.

Yeah.

And then immediately you feel like this is going to be a bad day.

Yeah.

So you have no idea how just one thought created in your own head, nobody else's head, no one put the thought in your head. You have already put yourself down and made the day lousy. So the day can be going perfectly, but one lousy thought can make it a bad day.

Yeah.

So once you understand the mechanics of the mind, which is what I teach a lot, actually, I teach a lot not just meditation, guided meditation. I teach about the mechanics of the mind. So once you understand how the mind works and how you can use different meditation techniques to train the mind to be the type of mind you wish it to be. For example, if you want a mind to say stop thinking, it stops thinking. If you want it to think about something else is thinks of something else. But right now you're sitting here and your mind is going from north to south, east to west and you have absolutely no control about It. And that requires training.

Yeah. And what I find fascinating about that. And it's. It's. It's probably slightly. It wasn't actually where I was going to go. What I really like is that. That point about control and control of the mind. Because we go through life doing so many things on autopilot, sometimes thinking we have control. And the thing is, we do have control. We just don't always exercise the control over what is that we do. We do things because it's the way that we've always done them without thinking. So I mean, something as simple as, I don't know, your commute to the office. You probably walk the same way, you probably have the same breakfast, you wear almost the same thing, you walk the same way, you get on the same bus at the same time, you stop at the same place for coffee. You do. And there's nothing wrong with any of that. But how often are you doing that intentionally with control over your mind? A lot of times we're not. We're just sort of gliding along on autopilot. That's. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But when you kind of like start to apply that to other situations in life. So the job that you do or how you do it, or the relationships that you're in, or the friends that you have, then you can see how much. How often we stumble through life not being intentional. And so having control over the mind is difficult, but it's actually quite powerful.

Yeah. So I would not use the word control, but I would use the word having a gap between you and your mind. The problem is when you have a thought, you identify with the thought, and immediately you feel a certain sensation about the thought. Now, if you just keep a distance between the thought and what you call as myself. And there is a gap, the thought is less disturbing on you than you allow it to be.

Yeah.

So you are the one who is controlling whether the thought. You know, whether you are influenced by the thought or not.

Yeah.

So meditation is really a way to. To remind yourself and to train yourself that, look, my mind and me are separate, but I use the mind for this and that. But it's separate from me. It's not who I am.

Yeah.

Something that I'm using.

So it's kind of like. It's the concept of detachment, really. And it's like. And I've said this a few times, and people may get sick of it, but I'm going to say again, anyway, it's that process you go through of where so to Go back to your analogy of looking at the rain clouds. It's like, okay, you acknowledge that there are rain clouds. It's probably going to rain. You can't do anything about that. You can't control that. Fine. So then you move to the next stage, which is you accept that it's going to rain. Okay, fine, it's going to rain. So you acknowledgement stage, and I mean, I go through this acknowledgment stage, might be where you kind of like get a little bit annoyed and a bit frustrated, which is fine. But it's a case of whether you then let that control the rest of you. But if you can get to the acceptance stage, then good. Okay. Except it's going to rain. Okay. And then the next stage is just adapt. So it's going to rain. I've got to go out. Okay. I take an umbrella or I get a cab or whatever. So you've gone through a process, has allowed you to get on with your day without the concept of rain affecting it.

Yes.

As opposed to spending your entire day being annoyed that you went out, you got wet, you threw it down with rain, the weather's awful, etc.

Or you got to spend extra money for a taxi rather than walk or take a bus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you let the little annoyances in life not disturb you as much as before. If you train your mind correctly.

Yeah.

And that requires regular training.

Yeah.

It's not something. You know, I know a lot of people who go for, like, meditation retreats, but for the rest of the year, they don't meditate. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. Like, please enjoy your meditation retreat.

Yeah.

But it doesn't work as well as if you meditate regularly, just even for five or ten minutes a day. It's almost like a chef. Like a chef cooks once a year for months, and then he doesn't cook for the rest of the year.

Yeah.

So do you expect him to be a good chef or a good. Or allows you shift? Right.

Well, it's. Yeah, it's. It's consistency with anything. It's. Whenever you start something, you'll probably be bad at it because you haven't done it before. That's fine. And same with consistency that you get better because you understand the process. So whether it's the physical asana and getting on the mat, you know, I mean, you may get to the mat for the first time and looking just at the physicality, not be able to touch your toes. But if you continue going, at some point, you, if you're consistent, you may get there. And like you said, this is same with the mind. We're talking with a guest a couple of weeks ago about the science that shows with neuroplasticity that with regular meditation you can actually change the structure of your, of your brain. But that's only with consistency. And again it's not an hour a day necessarily, it's a few minutes you can do that, but you've got to kind of keep up the practice like with anything that you want to perform well at.

Definitely, totally agree. And recently I've been learning a different type of yoga from this teacher which I'm sure many people have heard of, called Sadhguru. He's based in India, in Coimbatore and he's got millions of followers around the world. If you google him, you'll find him easily. So I've learned a few. This type of yoga called Kriya K R I Y A yeah. Which I practice every single day right now. I've learned all the programs they've offered so far. But most important thing is no matter what programs you've been to, any what workshops you've been to, if you don't use it, it doesn't help you.

Right.

So the Kriya works on the energy level of the body. So with yoga there are a few elements you will get physical level which is the asanas, you know, the breath work works on the, the energy and meditation works on the mind. So if you want to have wellness and well being in your life, these three aspects you need to work on. And also what kind of food are you eating as well. It's really a lifestyle. It's not something you, you do when you go to a yoga class or when you sit on your mat. That's not just yoga. Yoga is beyond that, without a doubt.

And I know I found that I'm like many people, particularly when I was still in my, my corporate role. Trying to get to a class was, was difficult. So like the sort of dream of going to class every day was just a dream. I mean I might get once a week, maybe twice if I was lucky. And I go there, I do the class and I'd feel good. But then I go to the next class and it's like I hadn't really progressed. I'd be back to square one again. And it's only when I started that consistent practice that I really started to see the benefits. Not just physically, but mentally as well. So as you say, it's tying the whole thing Together, it is that connection. That's what yoga is. And I think that that's why I sort of say that it can. Well, like, say it's a lifestyle, it can be the foundation for your life. Not going to a studio to do a class every day, but just living the principles and focusing on those things that are important to kind of make you work in a. In a complete way, as you said.

So I give yoga weekly to this lots of companies, and one of them is Aviva, which is an insurance company. So often when I teach them yoga, I remind them, I said, you guys are selling insurance for a living. So if you see yoga meditation as an insurance, you know, you are making the investment of being here and doing your practice, and in future you have less health problems.

Yeah.

So just if you can see that as an insurance, then you just keep doing yoga all the time.

Yeah, no, that's true. It will keep you going for, for a long time, as you said, if you can kind of keep everything in.

Check if you're doing the right yoga.

If you're doing the right yoga. Yeah, that one.

I'm stressed as well, because, you know, I know so many people who are doing yoga, which I'm very happy for, but there are also some people who are highly strong, they're stressed and all that, and they do the wrong kind of yoga for themselves. Like, they should be doing something slower and gentler, but they do something fast and quick and they themselves become more hyper. Yeah. So yoga really is about finding the balance, you know, like, there's so many choices these days, different classes that you can go, go to. You need to be honest with yourself. Like, what works for me right now, do I want to be more hyper or do I want to be less hyper and maybe more still?

And that comes down to what we talked about. The mind and awareness, awareness of who you are, awareness of, of your body and awareness of your mind and what, what they need. And we had my guest, Pedro, Pedro Luna, a few weeks ago, and he was talking about, he got into yoga through bik, as a lot of people did, loved it, and was a really hardcore Bikram. And it was, to him, it was addicted, it was like a drug. But then he got to a point where he realized it wasn't serving him, it just wasn't working. And he couldn't really get why. And then people, Someone had said to him, oh, you should go and do something more restorative, like a year and. Or something like that. And he's like, it's just people Laying on blankets, like, what's that about? But then he found, then that was actually what he knew because he was that sort of highly sort of strong, high energy person and bitcoin was just kind of putting more fire onto that, whereas what he needed was to, was that balance. So I think that you're right. And that's why there are so many different styles of yoga. And even if you find the one, I mean, I, I generally do vinyasa and teach vinyasa, but I love a yin class. I love a ninja Ninja class, I mean, whatever it is, because it depends on what I need at any given time.

Look, I started with, you know, the strong yoga myself because being who I am, I'm, you know, if I go to the class and I don't feel like I've been worked out, I feel I'm wasting my time.

Yeah.

So that was who I was like maybe 15 years ago. And then as I progressed through time and I got a bit older and wiser and then I had some injuries because, you know, a few years ago I was dabbling on going to the gym for some training.

Okay.

And because I look pretty fit, the trainer thought I was, you know, strong, etc. So I went into the gym too quickly.

Okay.

And I injured my back, injured my shoulder for a whole year I couldn't walk properly.

Okay.

And that's when I realized that, you know, what therapy yoga, which I used not to attend because I thought it was too slow for me. Right. So I started to do therapy yoga for the whole year just to try and recover.

Recover? Yeah.

And I ended up really enjoying it. So I think the style of yoga you do will change through time, through age and through your needs. It's a bit like people quit their jobs, the corporate jobs, and then become a yoga teacher, you know? Yeah. So life changes.

Yeah. I mean we, we evolve or we should do. So what served us, I mean, last year may not serve us this year and that's okay. But I think what yoga does, yoga can do is give you the, the awareness to recognize that. Because for a lot of people we don't recognize it and either then we get injured and we wonder why. It's because we've been pushing too, too far and not listening to the signals that, that our body was giving us or our mind was giving us. So, yeah, I think that's, that, that's, that's, that's very true. Going to talk more about yoga this, because this is fascinating even for me. I'm learning a lot, particularly in Terms of the meditation, the mind. So I do want to come back to that, but I want to talk a little bit about. Obviously you found yoga, you loved it, you decided it was for you, you'd left, left the job that you were doing, but you found yourself back in the corporate world but also teaching at the same time. So I'm interested to sort of, of see how that was for you. Did you feel that you'd found the balance that you were seeking because you were sort of, you were doing both, or did you find that that yoga was still sort of pulling you away in a different direction?

Do you mean that now that I'm teaching yoga to corporates.

No, I think, I mean, so I think I read that you, you were a director, a hotel at one point. And so you were, you were teaching, you were working there sort of full time, but you were teaching part time. So it's case of how did you. Balancing the two.

So basically back in 2000, I started to pick up yoga and then I learned and practiced yoga. In 2004, I qualified to be a teacher. And back then I had a dilemma because the hotel was offered me a job.

Okay.

And then I was planning to teach yoga full time. But then back in 2004, yoga wasn't as popular as today.

Yeah.

So I thought, okay, I don't want to give up both, so let me try the hotel full time and teach yoga part time.

Okay.

So what I did was 9 to 6, I was working in the corporate office and then in the evenings and weekends I was teaching yoga.

Okay.

So that sort of happened for two and a half years and something had to give because when I traveled I had to give up my classes, etc. Etc. And then by 2 years time I realized that my interest was really yoga. It was not in the corporate world and but it was difficult for me because it was important for me to have stable income. I like to be financially independent. That's very important. Important for me. Yeah, no matter, no matter what's the situation. I mean, so. But I had a bit of savings from, you know, from the past. And I thought, you know, my heart is really yoga. And plus my boyfriend and husband, my husband now, he was very supportive. He said, look, obviously your heart is in yoga, so just give up the company and give yoga full time.

Okay.

Which is what I did. So it was the best decision of my life, changed my life completely. He was the one that saw the growth in me from somebody, you know, who rarely did yoga to a full time yoga teacher and meditation Teacher. And I am extremely blessed to do what I'm doing.

Yeah. I mean, to be able to immerse yourself in, in what you love and not only in something that you love, but something that is so, so beneficial to, to yourself from a well being standpoint and then to be able to share that is, is fascinating.

And also with my previous work experience of working overseas and dealing with different foreign dignitaries and diplomats, it gave me the confidence to teach people of different backgrounds.

Yeah.

And whether you're a CEO or a homemaker or a mother of two, I teach. You teach them comfortably.

Yeah.

You know, I've got no hang ups about it. And back then when I was younger, I was very shy with giving speeches.

Yeah.

But you know, after doing yoga and having a bit of practice with teaching in classes and now I, you know, end up giving talks about health, about meditation to companies. You know, the largest group was about over 100 people. I was talking for one hour without any notes. So to me that's a huge step for me because I was a very shy girl when I was growing up.

Yeah. And that's a, that's a good segue into my next question actually, because I, I did read a little bit about that in one of the articles where, and I know that like many new teachers, you talked about having to overcome those fears and insecurities and stepping up to teach in front of a class, which we all have. And I think that anyone who's listening, whether they teach yoga or not, can relate to this. Those feelings of imposter syndrome. I mean, are they going to listen to me? What, what have I got to say that's important? So anything when you, you sort of step outside of your comfort zone, there is always that, that fear. I think the fear is, I mean, I think fear is good. I mean, fear means that you're kind of, you are stepping out and you are thinking big.

But I'm still fearful before any speech, by the way.

And that's fine. Yeah. And I think that, I think the way I look at it is that if I'm not fearful, if there isn't a little bit of fear, there's a little bit of nerves, then it's probably not big enough what I'm doing. I'm probably not stretching myself enough. So I think that, that, that, that's important. But for a lot of people, it stops them. Fear is that barrier that kind of keeps them where they are and stops them moving forward. So how did you, how did you overcome those fears? And would you say that it was the yoga that played a huge part in that.

It took me time. So for example, my first yoga class, I was nervous like hell. I even had like scripts prepared and hid it underneath my lap. It was so embarrassing.

So I have scripts.

So when I forgotten like what to teach next, I was sort of like, put them in the polls and sort of look back and see what post.

Oh yes, I recognize that. Yeah.

So I would recommend as a new teacher, teach your friends first, people you're comfortable with, like your family, people that you feel you will not be judged, and do that a lot and be comfortable doing that. And then once you're familiar with the classes you're teaching, then you start to improvise because, you know, initially you have a, a script or a method or structure of what to teach for that particular class and the more you teach. So I was very, I was crazy hard working when I first started. So in the first five, 10 years. Five, five years or so, I taught 20 to 25 classes a week, which was crazy. And it was not in the same location. I drove to every place separately. So I was a bit mad.

Yeah, it's like that stereotype of the burnt out yoga teacher, right?

Yeah, I was actually burnt out and I learned from that. And I told myself, like, look, I, I can't handle more than 20 classes a week.

Okay.

I mean, I'm teaching slightly less than that.

Yeah.

But I'm very thankful for the experience because the classes has, has taught me to be a good teacher.

Okay.

And how do you overcome your nerves? I think first of all, you know, often we look at how people do stuff and it's, it's good to observe how people do stuff. But don't try and copy, don't try to be somebody else that you're not, because it will show up. So the more comfortable you are in your own skin, the better for you. So for example, before I do any big talks to companies or CEOs or whatever, I always make sure in the morning I do my yoga and my meditation first to center myself, to calm myself. And you need to prepare. You have to be prepared for the class and you need to know who your audience is.

Yeah.

Then once you've done that and just go and teach and just be yourself. Like, even if you forget something, you know, try and make a joke out of it, don't try and hide it or pretend that you didn't make a mistake, like just admit it and just be natural. People would sort of be grateful for that. And also don't try to fake an accent. Seriously, there's so many people I've been to. I'm sorry, but they. They have a fake accident when they teach, really yoga, and it comes out and it's not comfortable.

Right. Okay.

Be yourself.

Yeah.

Speak the way you normally do. Of course, have a clear addiction. People can understand you.

Yeah.

But don't try to be somebody else.

I think that's. I mean, that's very good advice, and it's very good advice for teaching yoga, but very good advice generally as well. And a few things that I sort of pick out. I mean, the practice and the preparedness. Yeah. It is key. No one became good doing something the first time. The more you practice, the more used to it you get, the more experience that you get. So to be able to sort of stand up and speak without notes, I'm sure the first time you gave a speech, you didn't do that. It comes with time and with experience, and you've just got to. Yeah. Being yourself. We spend a lot of time being something that we're not or hiding a certain part of ourself. And I know sort of in the corporate world, that's sometimes the case because particularly if you're. If you're trying to progress, you kind of want to fit into an organization, you want to kind of see your. Your career succeed in a particular way and climb the ladder. There almost is a tendency to feel or to be made to feel that you have to be a certain way. You have to dress a certain way, you have to speak a certain way, you have to show up at the office a certain way, you have to sit around. I mean, all of these. All of these things. And therefore you're being made to fit into somebody else's expectation. So you're not being. You can't be yourself because you're being. You're being constrained. Whereas actually being your. Your full self and being your whole self, it can allow you to then figure out how you. How you adapt to a situation, how you show up in a situation in a way that's comfortable and is and is true to yourself. Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's no hard and fast rule. So, like, even personally, like, for the last 20 years of my life, I've made mistakes, you know, sometimes things I thought I should do more of. Then today I realize that it's not right or whatever. So you just change and adapt through time. And you need to observe yourself and be honest about what you see. You know, like, we are so good at observing others and judging others, but we are not so good at observing ourselves. And the more you observe yourself, the more you know what you're good at and what you're not so good at.

Yeah.

And you just try and strengthen what you're good at and you know what you're not good at. Just outsource it.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

And again, it keeps. It kicks. Came back to it, but it comes back to awareness because you can only know what you know. So if you're, if you're head down and you're sort of powering through whatever it is, your corporate job or whatever, and you're not coming up for air, if you're a yoga teacher and you're running around teaching 20 plus classes, classes A week, and you're, you're kind of on the verge of burnout, how much headspace have you actually got to kind of gain that awareness and figure out what you know, what you don't know, what you can work on, what you kind of want to get somebody else to do, you can't. So by taking that time, and this is, this is kind of what yoga helps me with, is taking that time to just be on the mat where nothing else matters. Just focusing on your breath, seeing where that takes you. And on the one hand it's about focus, it's just about sort of focusing, flowing through. But on the other hand, I just find that so much comes out when I'm on the mat, Whether it's creative ideas, whether it's other things that I've been pondering. I mean, not the mundane day to day, but sort of bigger things. And that's kind of where you gain that awareness. And so many of us walk around unaware of who we are. Definitely.

Yeah. So for me, yoga and meditation just gives me time to be with myself like you learn to enjoy being by yourself. So what I've realized today is, you know, like in the past I was searching for happiness through somebody or through things and all that. And now I realize that when you are comfortable and happy by yourself, having the extras, the friends around you, the possessions you have or whatever is a blessing. But the most important of all is if you don't have these things, it's fine. You can enjoy being by yourself.

Yeah.

And that's what I find, like a lot of people find difficult.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Especially during this year, you know, you had to be on lockdown and you had to be by yourself and alone. I know it's not easy, but if you enjoy being with your own company, you'll be perfectly fine.

Oh, yeah. I've always been, been guilty of being happy with my company sometimes to my, to my wife's annoyance. I've always been comfortable sort of sitting in them and being, being by myself. So yeah, being on there, being on a mat or being in the oak class for 90 minutes is bliss for me. It's beautiful. But yeah, there was a lot of thinking. There are so many distractions these days. There were so many of the things that you could be doing that it's kind of hard. It's hard sometimes for people to just focus on one thing. And I still have it sometimes. You know, I mean, you're. Maybe you're watching TV and you're also looking at something on Instagram and you're also trying to listen to something else, thinking that you're taking all of the same, but you're not really. So being able to just be. Yeah. Not do, just be for a period of time each day can start to reveal a lot about yourself that you probably weren't aware of before.

Totally agree. And another important thing I realized is to be in nature. You know, we live in concrete buildings, we sleep in concrete buildings, but when we go out, we are in concrete. So you're almost always in concrete building.

Yeah.

And we must remember that the food we eat come from the earth, whether it's a vegetable or a meat. And they all come from the earth.

Yeah.

So we are us. And we are also 80% water. So we need to be out in nature because. To reconnect with ourselves. Yeah, yeah, we are nature.

Exactly. Nature. Yeah, we are. We are nature. That is a good way of putting it. It's true. We, we kind of need to be out there and kind of take that in. We've removed ourselves from it quite a lot. So making that effort to kind of get out, it does make a difference to your, to your mood, to your well being.

And one of the tips I often give to many of my students is to walk barefoot on the ground.

Yeah, I love doing that.

Wherever and when, whenever you can. It's so good for grounding and even for your physical health. It also helps to calm you down and it just does something to you. So whenever you can, just walk barefoot on grass and touch the grass with your hands or the tree or the flower, you know.

Yeah. Now it's a good, a good tip for people out there, wherever you are. Just. Yeah. I mean, headphones out, sort of just, just touch, just feel it, notice how it feels. Get all those sensations. Yeah, it can, it can definitely do, do wonders because yeah, we just don't do that. Like you say, we're, we're protected in the buildings and with shoes and with, with everything else. So to actually have that sort of, of close connection. Yeah, we've lost that. We have lost that. Speaking of sort of. Okay, it's probably bad, but speaking of losing connection and that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean we're going to get back to the corporate world but like a number of my previous guests, you, you focus on teaching yoga to corporate clients and that's. There seems to be a lot of people who are doing that now. What, how did you get into that? Was it something that you strategically decided to focus on or did it just come about by accident?

I was very fortunate when I first started to teach yoga. So back in 2004 I was working with this hotel group and then they found out that I taught yoga as well. So they asked me to help out with some of their resorts with the teachers in their overseas hotels. Then when I quit my job, I got approached by a BP to teach yoga at bp.

Okay.

I taught once a week and that became like a ten year.

Oh wow. For me, which is amazing.

But then they moved office in Singapore and then they didn't have the space. But during the circuit breaker they actually contacted me and we did some zoom corporate yoga online which was really wonderful to connect with them.

Yeah.

Then my other corporate client is Apple. I was also extremely fortunate because back in 2004 someone asked me to cover her class at Apple took on. Then when I joined the company I stopped because the timings didn't work. So back in 2007 when I quit my full time job, Apple contacted me again and it became a 13 year affair.

Wow.

So from one class it became six classes a week.

Yoga teacher's dream.

So I'm so extremely thankful for my corporate clients and for. In the last few years I've been working on giving meditation, mindfulness talks and workshops in companies.

Okay.

And I had the good fortune of working with Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Facebook and Uber. A few years ago they had a leadership program in Singapore. They actually engaged a leadership professor from Harvard University and flew him in for a week to train the new leaders. And I was fortunate to give yoga meditation to them every single day before they started the training. And that was a wonderful experience because I did a lot of research on how to create better leaders through mindfulness and sharing tips on how to use yoga and mindfulness to be a better leader. And that was a really wonderful process as well.

Okay.

So subsequently Been giving talks about work life balance. You know, how to be calm in today's world. Yeah. So I really enjoy doing that. Reaching out to people through mental health.

Yeah. And why do you think yoga, corporate wellness in general is, is important?

Well, these days, you know, with a technology, digital technology, you know, it's supposed to help us work more efficiently.

Yeah.

But now, you know, people who are working from homes are complaining that there's no more. This distinct separation between boundaries.

Yeah.

No boundaries between work and home life because you're, you brought your work home and you're working till long hours.

Yeah.

Because you're expected to be contactable 24 hours a day. And that is extremely stressful.

Yeah.

Especially if you've got young children like yourself. You know, they need your attention, they need to be entertained.

Yep, they do.

And you, you need to work as well. So how do you have that balance? So my advice would be, first of all, if you can, whether it's to wake up a bit early in the morning, just find that space to connect yourself before the day starts. And that would make a lot of difference.

Okay.

And whether it's the beginning of the day or the end of the day or the middle of the day, just find time to quiet space, like five, 10 minutes, you can go down, go outside your home and have a walk or whatever.

Okay.

Without your devices and just reconnect with yourself.

Yeah.

So I give tips like that and, you know, whatever topics people would like me to, to talk about.

Okay. All tips which the listeners should, should note down and take away for their own lives. One of the things about corporate wellness is there's, there's a question as to how seriously it's taken, whether it's just a new buzzword and sort of something that's put out there, or whether it is truly supported by some of the companies that claim to have these programs. In your experience, how, how receptive have companies been to you delivering yoga and meditation to their employees? And have you found that that has differed depending on the industry?

Well, I think more and more people are aware of mental health issues now because it's all over in the Singapore papers. For the last year, last few months, especially since the COVID 19 happened, there's a lot of news of mental breakdown, anxiety issues, adhd, because, you know, people have lost jobs or they had pay cuts. So many things are happening, has happened this year. So definitely more companies are interested and aware of, you know, health issues that their employees are facing.

Okay. So as well as yoga, you also teach meditation. As we've talked about for anyone that hasn't tried meditation before, or they've tried and they've struggled. And a lot of people say, oh, I can't meditate, I can't sit still. I mean, I can't keep my mind still. Which, I mean, is obviously an indication of other issues, as we've also mentioned. But can you tell us how meditation's helped you and what would be the best way you would say to somebody who's looking to or thinks that they should start a meditation practice?

Well, many years ago, the founding father of Singapore, the first Prime Minister of Singapore, Mr. Lee Kuan Yew, he went to a friend's wife's funeral. So his friend was in his 60s or 70s. He's been married for many, many years.

Okay.

And when he went to the funeral, he saw his friend and he noticed that his friend was calm and peaceful. And he said, look, how do you do this? Your wife of so many years have just passed away, and how do you stay so calm? And this man who's called Ngu Song, he was. Was working in GIC back then. The chief investment officer.

Yeah.

He told Mr. Lee, the late Mr. Lee, that, look, me and my wife have been practicing meditation for many, many years. And even when she was dying of cancer. And he showed him some videos of her in hospital. He said, see how calm and peaceful she is? So he said, said meditation has helped me so much to deal with her death and her dying from this illness. So Mr. Lee was extremely curious. I mean, this is a real story. You Google it and find it.

Yeah.

And he asked him, like, who is your meditation teacher? And he said, you know, I learned meditation from this Catholic priest, and I chant this particular mantra.

Okay?

So Mr. Lee also learned from the same person, and he practiced meditation, if I'm not wrong, till he passed away. And in fact, the day that Mr. Lee, when he. During his funeral in Singapore, it was a huge event. It was broadcast live.

Yeah.

I remember that his son Li Hsien Loong, which is the current prime minister, was sitting in Parliament House waiting for the funeral to start. And he was sitting down with his eyes closed. And I believe. And he looked like he was also meditating. So see how I would describe meditation is this. In life, we go through good days. I would call that sunny days. And that would be like, your health is good, you have good relationships, you've got money in the bank. You know, everything's working fine, you're in love, life is good. And we also have rainy days, a bit of inconvenience. Maybe a little bit of cold or flu and you don't feel so good. Or you can have storms in your life and that could be like a job loss. Right. A job salary cut. Could be you've been diagnosed with an illness or someone, someone that you love have passed away or you have just suffered from a broken relationship of long term relationship.

Yeah.

So these are storms that we will all go through as human beings in our lives. Like it or not. They could be big storms or small storms.

Yeah.

So meditation is basically to prepare you to, to deal with these storms. So meditation is a way of training your mind so that when life is not so easy and life is turbulent, you can still manage the turbulence with a calm and stable mind. So you manage it in a responsive manner rather than a reactive manner, which is often, often compulsive in nature and unconscious in nature. So what meditation has done for me is totally that in the past I used to be super emotional. I would break down and cry all the time and I'll get really angry easily, so. And I suffered from low self esteem. Like I always tell talk myself down. But through meditation I became much more aware. You know, how do I talk to myself, how do I talk to my husband, you know, how to, how I talk to the family members that, you know, I don't really get on with or people that, you know, I don't get on with. Makes me more aware of what I do and what I say. And at the same time it gives me the gap between me and my thoughts so that I can be more responsive in my actions. When something happens that I, when something that I do not want happens, it gives me the power to respond than to react.

Yeah. So you're, you're being intentional rather than reactionary.

That's right.

Yeah. Which, which is a big difference.

And that's a huge power that anybody, any individual can have in their lives. Because every time you react to something, you don't know what you're causing next.

Yeah.

But when you respond to something, the, the outcome is, is, you know, better.

Yeah.

Than the reaction.

You consider the outcome. You've considered, you considered what you're going to do. And in considering that, you probably thought about the potential outcomes as opposed to when you react, you're, you're so blinded by whatever it is, anger, fury, rage, that you haven't even given any thought to what could happen next. And that could set up a whole chain of reactions that you don't want. Yes.

So who wouldn't want to live a Pleasant life. Everybody wants to have a pleasant experience of life.

Yeah.

But the thing is, nobody can control what happens to you every day. For example, today you woke up, you have no idea what will happen today. I mean, you have plans, whether they will happen the way you wish.

Yeah.

Nobody knows. Right. So you need to prepare yourself for whatever happens. You can be pleasant within yourself and that is one of the biggest power you can give to yourself.

And I mean, that's a great advert for meditation. I mean, we definitely. And you're listening to that, I think we'll at least start to sort of think about how important it is and how they could implement it in their own life. What would you say would be a good starting point for somebody who is in that point now? They've never meditated before, but they've listened to this and thought, okay, that sounds like something that I need in my life. How would you suggest that they start?

I would suggest that you go, you find a good teacher who can explain to you the mechanics of the mind. Because you can be doing guided meditation all the time, but the progress would be slower than if would be slow. But if you understood the mechanics of your mind, how your mind works, how the thoughts affects your emotions, affects how you feel every day, then when you meditate and use the techniques, you know your progress will be much quicker. Okay, so find a teacher. And if you don't have that near you, there's so many resources online.

Right.

You can go to YouTube, but there's so also so many teachers online as well. So find someone that you can connect with, make sure this person is a genuine teacher. Alternatively, there are lots of apps that you can go to, but I will call that like a little bit like. Like shopping for a meditation practice.

Yeah.

Personally, I stick to one practice all the time. I don't switch practices. Like, I don't do different practices all the time.

Okay, that's interesting.

One practice. And I find that the more I do the same practice, the better I get.

Yeah.

So you see that over a hundred meditation techniques to choose from.

Wow, I didn't know that.

There's lots of meditation techniques, so just pick one that works for you. You know, for some people, focusing on the breathing is super hard. They just can't maybe for others they couldn't be focused on sounds and, you know, the senses, so. Or focus on what you're doing. So for example, when you're eating, focus on what you're eating, how it tastes. But I would highly recommend that attending a personal workshop because for me Attending a physical workshop helps me immensely and if I was watching it online.

Yeah, I agree because I, I mean I used to meditate a while back using I think using the Headspace app when I kind of got into it and then I kind of fell out of it. And then with my. When I got deeper into my yoga practice and then particularly when I did my teacher training and you're meditating for. Dunno. I think up to like half an hour every day at the end of every practice. I found that that was really helpful in accelerating my practice along. So at least now. So now when I practice I'm to trying. Definitely. I mean I didn't know there were a hundred different types, but I did know there were different ones. I think I'm very much in the, in the school of focusing on my breath. So occasionally I'll do a guided meditation on say a calm or something. But actually what I mainly use calm for is the. It's really for the timer. So it's like. I know there's a 20 minute meditation or you'll have is like the sound of rainfall which is to me is quite comforting. And I can just focus on my breath and then when the bell goes, I know it's done. And for me that is, that is more what I enjoy. That's more what works for me and what kind of centers me.

Yeah. So I would recommend. Find a technique that works for you.

Yeah.

And stick to that and be really good with that technique and then if you feel you need to move on from there, then you can move on from there.

Yeah.

First of all, I would recommend you find a teacher.

Yeah.

Because that's really important in this journey. I find that personally.

Yeah, no, I think that's, I think that's, that's good advice. It's like. Yeah, it's like yoga, you know, I mean you can learn yoga from sort of watching YouTube videos, but actually going to a class or going to a studio, finding a teacher you resonate with and continuing to go to that teacher can really help your. Help your practice. And again it's that consistency jumping around different ones. You never kind of get good at any. Whereas if you can kind of follow one through for a period of time, then that will definitely help to, to accelerate your growth.

Definitely.

Great advice for anyone listening out there. And yeah, if, if anyone wants to know any more about meditation, obviously they can give your vet. Drop a vet a line or drop me a line as well and we can point you in the right direction. So as we start to wind Down. A few more questions to go, but starting to sort of wind down and try and get tease. A few more tips for people out there. I'm a big fan. I like to talk about morning routine. I ask this question all the time because I think that for me, having that structure at the start of my day kind of really helped me to start to sort of feel like I was getting some sort of sense of control because at least I had control of that time in the morning. So I'm always interested in whether people have morning routines and if they do, kind of what that looks like for them. So do you have one? And what is it if you do?

So I always like to start my mornings with yoga, but before I do that, I like to go and have a cold shower. So, you know, I try to wake up around 6, 6:30, and if I'm a bit lazy, I wake up 7:30.

We all, we all have the same moments.

So I find that, you know, having a cold shower just makes me more refreshed and awake. I often drink a glass of warm water, you know, because cold water to me is a bit shocking to my, you know, physical system. I know many people out there love drinking cold and ice water, but I find that warm water is so much easier for the system. Then after the shower, I'll dress up in very loose cotton clothing, not like the tight ones you see for yoga these days. That's for my personal practice. And I'll sit down on my mat. And before I do that, I like a lamb, whether it's made of ghee, butter, butter or ghee, I like the lamb. And then I'll sit down and start my mantra. And then I'll start doing some yoga asanas just to loosen up the body. And they would take either either half an hour or one hour, depending on how much time I have.

Yeah.

And I'll sit down and do my breath work. So that would be the Kriya yoga that I do.

Yeah.

And that would last for an hour. And after that I'll sit for meditation.

Wow.

So it's quite a long practice.

I want your morning routine.

It is not easy to maintain, though, I must say. It takes a lot of discipline.

Yeah, of course.

Especially, you know, if you travel.

Yeah.

Etc. And maybe go out for evenings with your friends.

Exactly, yeah.

So in the past I used to be like, hard on myself. Like, if I don't do it in the morning because I woke up a bit later and I had things to do, I will sort of like beat up myself. About it. But I thought, you know what, it's okay. You know, tomorrow I'm going to start doing it or I'll do at least one practice in the daytime when I had the time. So something whether it's a meditation or it's a short yoga practice.

Yeah.

So that's my morning routine. I also love listening to some teachers on YouTube about what they say about life, about relationships or it could be work or finding balance in life. And so basically right now I follow this man called Sadhguru and I find him extremely wise and insightful.

Okay.

Yes.

Wow. I mean you're, you must sort of start your day just in a state of bliss with, with that sort of routine. I mean it sounds fascinating to me. I mean I, I mean I try and do all that. I mean I, I meditate, I, I practice yoga in the morning and, and try and do my breath work as well and. But yeah, like you say, some mornings, some mornings are longer than others and some mornings they get missed and I mean it's just, just how life is and gets in the way. But yeah, I got better at not beating myself up. And it comes back to acceptance. Right? You accept where you are and also accepting been that in and of itself isn't only what yoga is. I mean there's so many ways you can implement yoga in your day. It's not just getting on the mat or it's not just meditating.

And I forgot to add, I like to take warm honey water with a neem ball and a turmeric bowl.

Okay.

So basically these bowls are made of turmeric powder and neem powder. Make sure you get the organic ones because you know, nowadays you don't know what's in. And you just put some water and you just roll it into a ball form and then I prepare that, prepare that the night before.

Okay.

And I just take it with the warm honey water on an empty stomach and that's really good for anti inflammation. It's wonderful for your health. There's a lot of health benefits. And taking turmeric and neem.

Okay. I wouldn't look into that. I haven't heard of. Heard of that before. I think everything else I sort of heard of and neither sort of tried. But yeah, I haven't heard of that before. The cold shower thing, I've tried and occasionally I do. I think one of the things I've read somewhere is that it's the way that some people look at it. It may not be the case for you, but some people look at it Is that if you can get one hard thing done first thing in the morning at the beginning of your day, it makes the rest of the day easier. So stepping into a freezing cold shower, is that, is that hard thing?

Well, of course, if you're in living in a cold, I don't recommend that. I mean, so have a warm shower or lukewarm shower, not hot shower, and then end it with a cold rinse. That would make a lot of difference.

Yeah. Kind of stimulates and energizes you apparently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I have tried it and it does, it does work. You kind of have to psyche myself up.

I actually started doing that maybe four or five years ago when I visited the Astron.

Okay.

And they didn't have any heaters.

Wow.

But then it was done on purpose actually. So. And it, and we Woke up like 4:30 in the mornings, you know, for yoga and. But it made so much difference.

Yeah.

And combined with the proper diet, I don't expect everybody to be vegetarian when they do yoga, but I eat mainly 80, 90% vegetarian food.

Okay.

So. And when I'm on my own, I prefer vegetarian, but when I go out with friends, I'm open minded.

Okay.

So I find that having raw food, like having 50% raw food in your diet helps with staying alert, sleeping less and being able to wake up for your practice.

Okay. Yeah. I must admit when I change, changed my diet. So I guess over a year ago now, it's actually when I came back from my first yoga retreat and became vegan and I kind of noticed a difference like clarity of mind, the recovery of the body energy levels. It did make a real difference. And obviously, I mean you can be an unhealthy vegan. I mean there's lots of, lots of great like vegan junk food out there. So it doesn't necessarily mean that, that being vegan is healthier, but in terms of like the sort of plant based whole food diet, definitely I noticed a change in my whole, my whole demeanor, my whole mood.

I definitely prefer whole food than processed food. So.

Yeah. Cool. I'm. Yeah, I'm gonna leave, leave this interview. Very envious of your morning routine and, and China. Trying to encompass it for myself one day. It's a goal.

With a call.

Yeah. Now it's time for your gold shower. Off you go. Okay. What, what advice? So people who are listening, some of them will be in the positions that they're in, not quite sure they want to be there, not sure what they can do next, if they can do anything at all. Maybe they feel that they're stuck where they are. What advice would you, Would you give to them? Obviously, here's someone who's. You've changed a lot. You've gone through different experiences. You're now at a place where you seem to be sort of quite content, quite fulfilled. What advice would you give.

If you're going through a difficult situation right now? Right. A lot of people have lost loved ones this year.

Yeah.

Or their jobs, you know, their livelihoods.

Yeah.

And they are trying to look for work and they're stuck with. With screaming kids at home. I would highly recommend that you try and look at what is working for you right now because often when something goes wrong, you will focus on what is not working for you and you get more and more depressed thinking about it and the thought becomes bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. So try to write down, have a list. Write down in a notebook or a piece of paper the things you have working for you right now. So for example, hells a roof over your head ability, food on the table, you know, like friends or family that you have, your skills that you have acquired through the years, try and focus on those things. And then if you can, set up a ritual, try and start doing some yoga, meditations through whatever means you have. Like, there's so much things available online now that are freely available. So find one that works for you and try and use that to calm yourself down and keep. Give yourself a clear head. And then once you've done that, you think of what the options you have to help yourself out of this situation right now. So then once you've done that, pick the situation that the option that works best for you and start working on it every day. Focus on that and work on it to help yourself get out of the situation. And if you need extra help, you know, seek help, Be ready, be willing to seek help with your friends or somebody who can help you.

Yeah.

And that's it. And. Or if not, just send me a text and we can talk.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's. It always comes back. And again, there's a lot of things which get repeated on the show, but I think it's because they're true and they're important. It comes back to looking inwards, doing the inner work. You. You can look externally and think that that doesn't work for me and jump to something else. But if you're not sort of working on yourself internally, wherever you go, you're going to feel the same. So you've got to take that time out, as you said, and sort of really figure out. And gratitude is key. As you went through all of those things, having that sort of regular time to focus on gratitude, just really reframe. Can really reframe your situation. Because when you're forced to. And I'm doing this at the moment, doing a gratitude challenge at the moment. And when you're kind of trying to find something to be grateful for every day. Yeah. The first few days are sort of easy. You go through the big things, your family, your health, whatever. But when you have. Have to start looking at those smaller things, it really kind of makes you realize the things that you have in your life and changes. Yeah. Change things.

Yeah. And if you find it difficult of gratitude, then go and visit the nearest hospital.

Yeah.

Make sure you wear your mask.

Yes, yes, the masks. How long will these masks be with us? Speaking of gratitude, and this is great, Segueing very well today. What are you most grateful for at the moment?

I'm most grateful for being alive right now. A lot of people have lost their lives or suffering from either Covid or some other illness. I'm extremely grateful for my husband, who has been extremely supportive of my work since I started from scratch to live in Singapore. I mean, it's safe, it's comfortable, and we are almost Covid free here.

Yeah.

To do what I'm doing, to be able to teach yoga, share yoga meditation with and help others. So I get. I benefit twice. You know, like, I help others and I feel good helping others, and then they also, you know, with an exchange. So, you know, I benefit twice. What else? Look, to be able to eat what I want to eat, you know, without worrying about my indigestion or whatever about ill health, to be able to walk. Like, a few years ago, I wasn't able to walk without stopping every five minutes because my calf hurt because of the pinched nerve in my back for one year. And I told myself if I were to walk properly again, I would be so grateful. And now I could walk like 10,000 steps, 20,000 steps without any pain. To me, just to be able to walk and stand teaching yoga without any pain, that is a huge blessing for me.

Wow, that's a whole list you've reeled off there of gratitude, which is great. I mean, I think some people sometimes struggle to kind of think of one. So all of those, you know, amazing things to be grateful for and also.

For this podcast so much.

Right. You're too kind to me, seriously.

So thank you.

You're too kind. You're too kind And I, I really appreciate you. I mean anyone giving up their, their time to come and talk to me for, for an hour, hour and a half is, is, is, is great. And, and to basically give up their time to, to kind of give, share their story with people really in the hope that it will kind of help people, people figure out their own lives is a very good thing to do. So thank you. Thank you story.

And you know, whatever I said, I just hope it helps somebody. Even if it's one.

Yeah, all it takes is one person. All it takes is one person. And it's sometimes surprising to us. We think our own stories aren't that interesting or important, but it's surprising sometimes how a little part of that can really resonate with somebody out there. So I always, I'm always really big on people sharing their stories, whoever they are, wherever they share them. Doesn't have to be on the show. It can be through a caption on Instagram or whatever, however they decide to do it can be speaking to somebody sort of in their local bar. But your story can help somebody with their journey, probably more than you know or realize. So yeah, thank you for taking the time to do that. And that sort of brings us to a quick fire round before we close. A little bit light hearted and well, it depends really on the first one. Can sometimes get people a bit stumped. But is there a particular quote or words of wisdom that you live by?

There are a few actually.

I thought so. I've seen on your, on your email signature and also on your website there's, there's some amazing quotes there. But so yeah, I'm interested to see if there's a particular one that stands out for you. Not necessarily all the time, but maybe at this moment or maybe in reference to a particular time or event.

I would say two.

Okay.

And see, every morning I've got this ritual which I shared earlier and then after my meditation there's this two affirmations or this, these two sentences. I remind myself every single day. The first one is the universe always works in my favor.

Okay, I like that one.

And the second one is my ability to respond is endless in any situation.

Wow, that's deep. I'm just playing that, as you said, I'm just trying to sort of play around in my own head and like there's so many places you could go with that.

Lots of places. So basically what I mean is life can throw you with all sorts of challenges, but the ability for me to respond to these challenges are endless.

And I think now I've had a little bit of time, although I'll still be processing that long after this interview, but is a really good thing for people listening out there, because we think that wherever we are is where we have to be. Like, we can't go anywhere else. We can't do anything else. We're stuck. And actually, that isn't the case at all. There's so much out there. We just have to unlock that. Unlock that. That limitation. There's limiting beliefs, really.

And there's one more, actually.

Okay.

That I'm responsible for whatever is happening to me right now.

Yes. I love that one because it took me. It took me a while to get to that position and to kind of understand. But the reason I love that one is because there are so many things that happen externally which we don't have control over, and we have to accept that, but we do have control over how we react to them, how we respond to them, what we do in relation to them. And we don't always realize that either. We think this has happened and this is how you react. And it comes back to that reaction point. Right. Automatically, something happens. It's somebody. I don't know, somebody just. I mean, I'm from the uk. In the uk, we're very big on queuing. So somebody steps in front of you in the queue, your automatic reaction is to have a go at that person, to get really angry and to get really. Right. Irate. You can do that. But if you're doing that, probably a lot of the time you're not doing that from a place of intention. And you can choose how you respond and how you react.

Definitely. So. Because often when you react, the situation might end up worse than the first situation, whereas when you respond, it could end up even better than the first situation.

Yeah.

So you are creating what you want rather than what you don't want.

Yeah. Wow. Three. Three for one there. All of them profound. All of them will be running around in my mind for a good few days now, but thank you for that. They're really, really, really good. Really good to hear. What's the most impactful book you've read in the last 12 months?

The last 12 months. I haven't finished reading this one yet.

Okay.

It would be called Death Death.

Okay.

Death, Death, the Inside Story for All those who Shall Die by Sadhguru.

Wow.

So he launched this book in March this year, ironically.

Okay.

And it's about the process of dying before and after what happens. And how do you prepare for death? Because. Because all of us are not immortal. One day it shall happen to us. I'm not trying to curse anybody. If you know anybody who's still alive after a thousand years, tell me. So, you know, if you know that death is inevitable, isn't it good to prepare for it? Because if you can die the way you wish, isn't that the ultimate dream? I mean, if you can live the way you wish.

Yeah.

The ultimate dream. So there's always a saying, you know, when someone passes away, they said, rest in peace.

Yeah.

But then my question is, how do you rest in peace if you don't live in peace?

Wow. That's deep. Okay.

So if you want to rest in peace, then you have to start living in peace now. And how do you live in peace? So to me, yoga, meditation has. Has granted me access to that. So that's why it will always be part of my journey.

Yeah. You know, that's a very. Yeah. Oh, man, I've got so much to. So much to ponder on after this. I like that. Yeah. If you don't live in peace, how can you rest in peace?

Yeah. Or even sleep in peace if you're not living in peace right now?

Yeah.

Can you sleep in peace tonight?

Yeah, of course. Because if you're. It's like when you do something, when you feel like you've done something good, you've had a productive day, you've helped somebody or done something that's worthwhile, there is that feeling that you get, and it is a. It's a feeling of contentment, a feeling of happiness, of whatever you want to call it. Whereas, yeah. If you. If you maybe haven't done something good or you've done something bad to someone or something that you. You're. It doesn't really sit well with you. You do get that restlessness, you know? So. Yeah. When you kind of extrapolate that over the course of your life, I guess. Yeah, I definitely see how it makes sense.

Well, I. Yeah. So I talk a lot about Sadhguru because, you know, obviously I've been doing Yoga for almost 20 years, and learning from Sadhguru has made a huge impact in the way I live, the way I teach, and the way I breathe and the way I think. So, you know, that's why I often listen to his speeches about what he has to say about life and death and stuff. So I would highly recommend that book and for anybody who is interested in their spiritual growth to consider doing inner engineering.

Okay.

Because that was what I started with four years ago. And you will find it extremely powerful. And useful if it's just a seven day online program. Okay. Very affordable. And it would definitely help you to live a happier life for sure.

Okay, cool.

So I mean, if you're looking for Christmas presents, someone meaningful, I think, I mean, I'm not working for them.

Yeah.

I'm not promote. I mean, I'm seeing it from my personal experience.

It's what worked for you and you, you feel it could help other people. Yeah, so.

And yeah, so it's helped me immensely.

Okay, cool. So yeah, we'll, we can get a link and, and put that in the show notes. I will look that up as well. Well, I think anything that somebody can say has helped them in their own experience. Again, it comes down to sort of sharing your own story. And yeah, it doesn't mean it will work for somebody else, but by sharing it, people can go and sort of look for themselves and sort of figure out if it's something that appeals to them. So.

Definitely. And I think, you know, this year has just shown us that we are not immortal. We are not immortal.

Yeah.

Things can happen to us and when it will happen, nobody knows.

Yeah.

And life is precious. So. Because it's so precious and so short, you know, try to make it as joyful and pleasant for yourself and others around you as possible.

Yeah, right.

Not just for yourself, but make sure that the people that you're living with is joyful to. For them. To.

For them as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, agreed. Agreed. Very deep. I like it. I like it. Favorite yoga pose.

And why it would be my meditation pose. My cross legged meditation.

Okay. Yeah. So. Yes.

Okay.

It's good. I like that. Why?

I just find that that pose is my time for turning inwards.

Okay.

And just connecting with myself and just become nothing. And when you realize that, when you can become nothing, like absolutely nothing, not even your role or your name or your identity, not your identity, nothing. And you just focus on the breath and just become one with the breath. To me, that is a special time with myself.

Okay.

I love doing that. That's something I love immensely.

Yeah. Cool.

Cool.

That's good. We haven't had that one. That one yet. So it's good to have something different. And I like your explanation as to, as to why as well. Do you prefer to practice yoga with music or without music?

Without music.

Without music. Okay.

I used to do yoga with music and I found music, you know, uplifting and stuff like that. And then I realized that it can be a distraction. So instead of having any music, I prefer to follow the Breath all the sounds around me like a bird chirping, whatever. Yeah. So without music.

Okay, very good. And final one. Do you have a dream yoga retreat destination?

I'm very biased.

Okay.

So the last few years I've been going to this ashram. So when. When people talk about retreat, it's always something, you know, like a seaside retreat and enjoying, you know, food by the beat.

Yeah.

You know, stuff like that. So I don't know. The older I am, the more traditional I've become.

Okay.

And basic as well. So my favorite retreat would be to go to the ashram in India, the Isha Foundation Ashram in Coimbatore.

Okay.

Because they sell the most amazing food, they're extremely supportive in the practice, and they're extremely affordable. And to me, they're one of the most authentic places to practice yoga.

Okay.

So to me, that would be a retreat that I would go for, which I have been doing for the last few years.

Yeah.

So.

Okay, cool. I'll have a look at that online.

And they also have this huge meditation hall. And when you enter the hall and you just sit there for 15 minutes, it's so easy to meditate.

Okay.

And people treat the whole space with so much respect.

Yeah.

It's very hard to find that. I'm sure there are lots of centers around the world which is like that, but I've never been.

Yeah.

But that's blown me away.

Okay. This is what I like about particularly the. The quick fry questions is that we get such different answers from people. They. They. On the face, on the surface, they sort of seem quite sort of simple, straightforward answers. But actually when you delve down, and I do sort of like to sort of ask why and get into it, the responses that you get are just really interesting and fascinating. Definitely. For me, and I hope for the. The people listening out there, because there are all these sort of different perspectives and particularly when. When I'm speaking to different yoga teachers as well, because on the one hand, so everyone sort of come to yoga and is now teaching and sharing the practice and a lot of times sharing it for similar reasons. But then you kind of chip underneath that and, yeah, everyone's got their. Obviously got their own story and also have their own. Their own approaches. So.

Yeah, well, they also have another center in America, so if you live in the States, they have one center in Tennessee.

Okay.

I've never been to that one, but it looks beautiful from the images that I've seen.

Okay. So for any of you in the. In the US out there, go check it out and yeah, report back to me. Let me know if it, if it is now on your dream list and what you thought about it. It'd be great to hear, hear from you. And that brings us to close today's interview. The last thing I guess to answer you or the last couple of things is do you have anything that's coming up soon or in the future that you want to talk about? Any, any workshop, any events or. I know we're quite restricted at the moment given current situations, but.

Well, so I give private classes as well. So I've been giving private yoga classes besides corporate yoga classes and also meditation classes. So because of these restrictions with the COVID 19 and we're restricted to having five people wherever you are. So currently I offer just private sessions, coaching sessions, either yoga or meditation.

Okay.

And I have a lot of clients who prefer to just do the private ones because I actually become the counselor as well.

Yeah, I could see that. Yeah.

Because, you know, they share with me like what's happening with their lives and I will give them a technique, meditation technique that would work for them. Their personality. Yeah. And the situation that. That they're in.

Okay.

So not just one technique, maybe a few techniques.

Yeah.

And then what I teach would be not just sitting meditation, which, which is where you sit your. Sit down and close your eyes. I will teach them active meditation as well. So meditation on the go.

Okay.

So you'll be meditating the whole day long.

Sounds good.

Yes.

Yeah. I might talk to you a bit more about that after we. We end the interview. And where can people find you? Where's the best place? I know you're on sort of social media. You've got a website. But where's the best place for people to get hold of you?

Please come to my website, www.yogawithevet.com that has links to my LinkedIn and my YouTube or otherwise. You can find me on Instagram Yoga with Yvette T. LinkedIn at Event T, which is tweeble. And I'm on Facebook as well.

Cool. We'll put all of those links in the show notes as well so people can go and sort of see what you're doing. And yeah, go and check out Yvette's website. There's some good articles on there about her telling her story and yeah, you can sort of see some of her. Her yoga videos and just find out a bit more about what she's up to and what's going on.

Yeah. And if anybody is interested in me sharing a particular topic, Linked to yoga, meditation and. Or you need some help about something, you know, please feel free to reach out. You know, I know now people are going through difficult times, so just reach out, sir.

You, you've been told and you've been given permission. So yeah, for. Feel free to, to reach out to Yvette to follow up on anything that resonated with you in this episode or reach out to me and I'll pass it on as well. But yeah, it's been really good talking to you. We've got really sort of deep into particularly the yoga and the meditation side of things, and I'm looking forward to continuing those conversations off air. It's kind of been an extension of when we first met, so I'm sure there'll be lots more, more, lots more chats to be had.

Thank you so much, Ryan. Really appreciate this and thank you guys for listening as well, you know, to our conversation. So I hope it helps you in whatever situation you're going through and you found something interesting that you've learned today.

Great. No worries. So thank you very much and yeah, we will sign off now and go and continue getting deep while I ponder some more of those, those quotes that you spoke about. Thanks, Yvette.

Thank you. Take care and stay safe.

One of the things I love about doing this podcast is I learned so much from the guests that come on the show, and Yvette is no exception. I learned so much from the interview, but also from the chats that we had before and after the interview as well. Things that I will introduce into my own life and into my own practice. I'd love to hear from you guys. What did you think? Did you start meditating now? Were you meditating before but maybe fell out of your practice and now you're going to go back to it? Whatever it is, why don't you let me know? Drop me a line on Instagram, Ryan Spenceyoga or heogadenpodcast. Oh, and don't forget, if you're struggling to figure out what you want to do next and are looking for some inspiration, go to my website, ryanspenceyoga.com and download the free corporate escapee starter. Just a few of the resources in there that I found helpful when I was looking for my way out and some that I still use today, including this podcast. I don't use this. I host it. But you get what I'm saying. And okay, as we come to the end, and if you're listening in real time to this last show of the year, as always, I'd like to end by asking you to eat plants, give them hands and you peace.