Balancing Identities with Cyndi Thomason

Welcome everyone to another insightful podcast. I have a great guest with me today. Her name's Cindy Thomason. Uh, she and I are fellow Profit First professionals. Now, Cindy, were you the first or second Profit First derivative book?

It's the first to sign, but my book came out second because I took longer writing it.

Got it. Okay, so she was still a pioneer before me because I was number 3. And her specialty with Profit First is with e-commerce. She also has a second book called Motherhood, Apple Pie, and All That Happy Horseshit. Is that the official title?

I think it's official.

Love it. And that focuses a lot on women-owned businesses. So today we're gonna focus on E-commerce women-owned brands. Now, if you followed any of the other stuff in our podcast, we've talked a lot about Profit First. So maybe Cindy, let's start with what are the differences in the e-commerce Profit First system compared to the normal, like just generic outline that Mike created?

Well, you may remember, John, when, when Mike got the deal from Penguin House to rewrite Profit First, he came out to us and he said, hey, what should I change? What needs, what would you recommend I do different? And I wrote him a very heartfelt message about including inventory because my clients really struggled with inventory and they didn't, it wasn't addressed in Profit First. And then I got my advanced copy and it still wasn't addressed. And I'm like, Mike, you kind of left out the big thing. And he's like, no, Penguin House doesn't want to go that detailed. So I think you should write a book. So that's what I did. And that, that really is the main thing. And I think it's true for a lot of businesses, whether you're e-commerce or retail, managing inventory is, is a challenge. And a lot of times people get into the e-commerce business kind of as a side hustle and they think, you know, I've saved up my $10,000 to buy my first shipment. And what they don't realize is they're going to have to reorder that second shipment before they get all their money from the first shipment sales and it sets them up in a spiral immediately of not having the money to keep the inventory flowing. So, you know, inventory is just critical and Profit First is a beautiful solution to it. But, uh, Mike, uh, didn't talk about it.

Yeah. Yeah, I, I get it. Um, we found when we were working with gym owners, like as we were implementing the Profit First system, Like, man, we're customizing every single one of these clients. And then he announced to all of us, like, by the way, if you feel like your niche deserves some extra detail, let me know. So on the inventory side, if I'm that business owner, what are signs in my life that will tell me, like, you might not be managing your cash properly with this inventory?

Well, most of the time it's when they go to place an order and they don't have the cash to put the money down. I mean, that's, that's where it hurts. And so then they put it on a credit card. A lot of times they tell themselves, I'm just gonna put it on a credit card and I'll have the money whenever, you know, the bill, the rest of the bill comes due. And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. In e-commerce businesses, they grow rather fast and you may place an order for 10,000 units this month and next month you need to place an order for 20,000 units and then the next month it's 40,000 units. I mean, it's, it's usually hockey stick growth if you hit the— if you hit it right. And so cash flow coming in, if you're not setting aside the money for replenishment and also for growth, then you're, you're going to be behind the 8 ball. So it really does come down to making that next order. When you have to place that order, do you have the money to actually hold the, you know, put the deposit down and And know that you're going to be good to cover it whenever the, the, the product ships.

Yeah, such a great insight. It's one thing like without a system, they're probably already struggling with the idea of replacing the existing inventory at the existing level. But then without a system for sure, now they're going to get super problems because their inventory order based on their projection of sales is going to increase, which as we know requires more capital upfront to even get the inventory in before we can even sell it.

Um, and in e-commerce, you really have to be thinking about that next product almost as soon as you've got the first one out the door, because unfortunately they're, they're copied so quickly. And it used to be whenever I first started working with clients, there was a 2 or 3 year period where you could really enjoy what you built. And it's about 6 months now. Unfortunately, if you got 6 months out ahead of somebody, It's very rare that you're going to be the only one 6 months down the road, and it's just too easily copied. So what I want my clients to do is to be thinking about, all right, what's that next product that I'm going to follow on with? Even if you've got your IP protected and trademarked, etc., patented, the money that it costs to fight those infringements is huge. And, and, you know, our clients do fight them and they sometimes win, but it's, it's costly, you know, and then as soon as they get that one wrapped up, there's somebody else out there. So, you know, it's, it's a, it's a game where you've got to have money flowing and you need to be setting aside money to, to, to fuel the growth, but also fuel the longevity of the product line or the next product or whatever, because you're not. You're not gonna bank on that for 30 years. It's just not gonna have that kind of legs. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. So speaking of a second product though, you, you know, you and I met and you were Profit First for Ecommerce and then you came out with your second book. What, what was the drive? Why, why do that again? Because I, I can tell you from my own experience, when I finished my Profit First book, I thought I never wanna write another book. And here we are, right? Something happened. What was that for you?

Uh, um, I don't know, but I, I equate it with childbirth.

And you forgot.

After a while, you just forget. I, I think, I think there's something really unique about writing a book, uh, in terms of personal discovery, uh, in terms of really examining according to the process that you and I use with working with AJ Harper, you really are doing a lot of self-discovery to figure out what is it that you can bring to this table that will connect with your core message with your audience. And there's just, it's a way of personal development that I don't think you can get many other ways. And, and for me, I, I loved writing the first book and getting to know my clients on the level of you know, financial level in what was going on for them. But what was really driving me personally was more what was going on in my business and trying to create a business that would allow other women to have time in their lives to, to focus on some other priorities. You know, Most women have children or elderly parents that they have the main caregiving responsibility for. And that was going on for a lot of my e-commerce clients too. They, they got into e-commerce kind of as a side hustle so they could continue to, you know, do what they were doing with their kids at school, etc., or solve a problem. I've got, I've got a number of parents in the baby niche who are now inventors and have e-commerce businesses because they solved a problem they had as a, as a mom, you know. So that was what was really important to me on the second time. There was, there was an aspect of business ownership that I felt like women were not exposed to when they were considering having a family. It's— when I was making the decision, it was either stay-at-home mom or go back to work and after your maternity leave, and then your child would be in daycare. And I'm very, I'm very single-minded. I'm not multitasking. I can think about one thing at a time. And so for me, it was like I would just be stressed out all the time. And fortunately, we had the resources with my husband's job that I could be a stay-at-home mom. But what I realized fairly quickly after doing that was I was really giving up my professional identity, and I missed it terribly. And as much as I loved being with my daughter, nothing had prepared me for the loss I would have of my identity through my work. And, and once, once a friend asked me to help her with something in her business that woke up. And I was like, okay, this is what's been missing. And my daughter was like 11 or 12 at the time. But I started back working at that time as a consultant to her and then ultimately forming my business. And I just wanted women to realize that there are— that's an option for them, that being a small business, while yes, it's a lot of work, It's done on your terms and you can set, you know, when you work and, and, um, you know, all the parameters you're in control of. Whereas going back to work in, in an office, for example, you don't have a lot of, of those type of, um, you don't pull, make those decisions yourself.

Have you found, like, is there one of these challenges stronger than the other? Or, I mean, maybe the message is also different, but Is it one, because it sounds like, like when you decided to be a stay-at-home mom, maybe not necessarily, it's kind of one of those, you didn't know that you didn't know that you missed your professional identity. Like, is it the challenges to help women have an awareness, like you potentially, that hole that maybe you're feeling some depression over could be the professional development that you don't no longer have, or is it— Hey, they kind of already recognize, I really miss that. I, but I just don't know how to get it back. I don't know what I can possibly do. I mean, is it both challenges, one or the other?

Like, I think both challenges exist. What I'm hoping to make women aware of is that you don't have to pick one or the other. There's a third choice, and that third choice will allow you to stay in touch with your professional identity and allow you to be involved with your family in the capacity that you want. And, you know, I always hated that commercial, you can have it all or whatever. But I do think this comes as close to that as you can get because you're in the one— you're the one kind of in the driver's seat. I mean, honestly, when you have small children, the children are in the driver's seat because you never know when one of them is going to wake up with an ear infection or an upset stomach or whatever. And your whole day is is ruined according to all those plans you had made, right?

Right.

And so I just want women to be aware that that is an option that will allow you the flexibility to be the kind of mom you want, but also keep one foot into this professional identity that you've had possibly in the past. And that those 2 things can be easy— not easily, it takes a heck of a lot of work. I won't say it was easy, but those 2 things can be achieved through Being a small business owner.

It feels like based on— because everyone's gonna have a unique situation, right? So it sounds like there— what are some principles? Because it probably isn't like a checklist per se, where it's like, well, you should schedule your day so that between 11 and 12, that's the highest priority time to work. More principle-based, because based on the number of kids, what you've decided to have your kids involved with, And what you want to do with your business. Can you walk us through some principles that women should be considering?

Well, the first principle, and I think it's the one that is the most easily overlooked, is to really take care of yourself and create that sacred space in your life to be in touch with what you really want. Uh, I think it's the biggest challenge for most women We are pulled in so many directions of caring for others that we lose sight of what it is that we, we really want. And, and that can happen with family pulling us. It can happen with work pulling us. And, you know, I, um, I know in growing my business, when my daughter was out of the country on exchange, I was working all the time and the business had sucked all of it out of me, you know. And through, um, through our, our, uh, author friend Mike Michalowicz, he was working with me at that time on Clockwork. And I was clockworking my business where that— so that I could start to see my way out of all of the weight of the business. And the thing that I became aware of was that I had really lost touch with myself. I had, um, my daughter who had consumed, you know, 15 years of energy as she was growing up was now on foreign exchange. And I just, instead of thinking, oh, now I can balance things in my life a little better, I just dove into work. I'm like, I'm gonna fan those flames as hard as possible. And in, in the process, I lost myself. And so I think women, the, the first principle is to start to realize that The sacred space that you have in the world, you are responsible for that, and you need to stay totally connected to that. And the way to do that is to be sure you have a support network, both professionally and personally. When I, when I deliver workshops talking to women, and I ask them to write down who are the 3 people they would call if they had a problem in their business, and who are the 3 people they would call if they had a problem in their personal lives. And you can't put your spouse or your parents, because let's face it, if something's really going wrong, those are not the people— they're going to be dealing with their own concerns, you know, that are around if a child is sick, for example, or whatever. And most women have a real struggle coming up with 1 or 2. And I very rarely see people get to 3. And I think that's a big, big struggle that we have. We do not have that network of folks that we can call on and, and, and say, hey, I've got this issue going on with my business. I would love to visit with you over coffee or whatever. Or I've, I've got a sick child and I'm not going to be able to make it to the meeting. Can, can you come and, and watch her while I go to the bank to ask for $1 million? You know? And I mean, it's, it's hard to imagine, but my book outlines stories from about 10 different women who who have, who have been down that road and, and the struggles they had with, you know, trying to make things work when there was an emergency is, is very common.

Networks, do you have any firm rules on like, should they be completely separate people? Could one person be on both lists?

They can be on both lists. I mean, I, I know For me, for example, I've been in Profit First in a Fortress group for 9 years now. It's hard to believe, but me and one lady have been together for 9 years. And that line is totally blurred. You know, if I'm struggling with something at work, I don't hesitate to send her a text. And if I'm, you know, dealing with some personal issue that I'm not quite sure about, I'll send her a text. And so, yeah, they can, those lines can blur and that's, That's one of the things that really makes it, makes it rich and is kind of unusual because a lot of us, and when you're in a career and you're working in an office and you've got other people working in an office per se, it's easy. You know, you keep your friends with those folks or whatever, but you go home and you're done. The problem with entrepreneurship is that you go home and you're not done. And your friends that have a regular job don't really understand why you're at home working whenever, you know, they're, they're done and they're looking at a magazine or whatever. And so it's, it's nice when the personal and the business overlaps into a friendship because you both are in this entrepreneurship world together and you understand that it's just a really different mindset. And, and that really is a, a way to support each other that's different than I think you can find outside of it.

That's interesting. I definitely— owners, like if you own a small business, you're on an island, right? Like there are certain things you can't even talk to with other people who are close to you inside of the company sometimes just because you don't necessarily know Like we all have at least one confidant, right? And if that one confidant also is within your organization, eventually other people hear about it. And then sometimes when people hear your concern as the owner, they don't actually understand the weight of responsibility on your shoulders, right? Like, oh, this guy's complaining, but look how much revenue is coming in. It's like, okay, but our average revenue per employee last year dropped by half. So, yeah, having a support network is super important.

You know, it's also true on the family side. You think, okay, I can just go talk to my spouse. And then as soon as you do, they're like, well, this is just a big waste of time. I don't know why you're doing that anyway. You just close that thing down so you can focus on, you know, what the kids need. Sometimes you're not exactly on the same page. Or, you know, money's not coming in as expected, and then they start really worrying about, okay, what does this mean? Do I need to be— do I need a second job? Are we really going to be able to meet our commitments? Because we were banking on your business, and now it's not coming together. So sometimes the spouse is well-intended as they are. If they're not in the business, they really don't understand it the same way that you do. And, um, it's, it's just really nice to have that network of people who are, are at arm's length, but, but are close enough to really give you valuable advice.

And it sounds like sometimes maybe this situation will lead to having to have a crucial conversation with your spouse. Um, I mean, we're, we're huge fans of the book Crucial Conversations. We actually review it annually as a company and every new employee, new, every new team member gets a copy of the book. I'm curious though, on your end, how would you recommend a woman navigate that with their spouse if they're not on the same page?

You said you got, you have to have a conversation about it and multiple conversations usually, and, and really, really get back in touch with what it is you want as as a woman business owner, what it is that you want, and then look at what that situation may be asking of you and determine, okay, when I have the conversation with my spouse, then I want to be sure it's in service of this larger goal that I'm going after. I mean, many times women are, they have this e-commerce business that they started because they wanted that work environment, but on their own terms. And so sometimes it's just getting that back in front of a spouse and saying, okay, well, this is why we're doing this. And is it working or not? And being open to the fact that maybe you've gotten a little far afield from what you were trying to achieve as well. Um, there's usually a reason for why you're pursuing that business and just be sure you're still fighting for it for the right reasons.

I can tell you of all the questions in the world now, I'm not one to say like, oh, what's your top thing? Whatever. I, I don't think it's fair to ever limit things to one thing. But as far as questions go, is this working or not is such a great question that any business owner can ask, not just from the relationship standpoint, but We ask that all the time when I'm looking at my numbers. When you're looking at metrics, just is this working or not? The numbers are telling you yes or no, but it's, it's this, that's the start of the really transformational thought process, right? Like I can just imagine a couple sitting down like, is this working or not? And the dialogue back and forth of sharing openly with both parties like, well, I don't think it's working, or I do think it's working. And then coming together like, I love that question so much. Um, Cyndi, where can people find out more about you? Um, I'm assuming people can buy your books on Amazon.

Yeah, books, books are anywhere books are sold, but definitely on Amazon. Um, cyndithomason.com is my website, um, and it's C-Y-N-D-I. Um, I had to be different when I was 13, so, um, and our accounting firm that I founded is BooksKeep. So if you're interested in e-commerce bookkeeping, that's the best place to go.

Excellent. And then, uh, is there anything that I should have asked or something that you really wanted to say that, uh, you want to share as a last message with our audience today?

We touched on it, and that's the support. Um, you and I have been in a support mastermind group together in the past. Um, Profit First has developed that For, for its network of members and seek out and find those people that can support you in your, in your business and in your personal life. If you can't come up with your 3, then come up with a list of 5 and then start having coffee so you can get your, your 3 actual people because it will. You need people not only to go to when you have a problem, but people to kind of look over your shoulder and go, hmm, are you okay? You seem like you might need a break or whatever. And women that are carrying a lot on their shoulders, I think, need somebody to just look over our shoulder a little bit and say, are you okay? And be willing to take that help when it's offered.

Thank you. Um, and everyone remember, profit is a choice. Have the courage and wisdom to choose it.