Pricing Conversation with Chris Thorndike

Hey everyone, welcome. Uh, got Chris Thorndyke on with me today and I really wanted to get straight into it. No BS here. Chris, uh, I was talking to him earlier and he made some pretty massive changes— drastic, I would say. Maybe not massive, but drastic changes, uh, related to COVID, which has then led him down this path of, um, understanding pricing better. He even has a formula he's going to share with us. I'm excited to hear about. So instead of trying to summarize something, Chris, why don't you just get straight into what happened and let's just get into it?

Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for having me on. You know, guys, today is really about just understanding how to increase prices, but I want to show you why, you know, this really came to be. And the pandemic, I think, was the biggest blessing, John, like for me looking at it as an opportunity. sure, it had a ton of crap that came with it, but as a career coach, you know, I've been doing this for 13 years, like, this is how I want to spend my career. So there wasn't an option of just like, all right, I'm done, I'm gonna go get a different job. It was, how do I adapt, um, and thrive, or just die and just start over? And that's— that wasn't an option for me. So I really looked at it from a number standpoint. You know, if this is what provides for my family, this is what provides for My coaches, how do we restructure? Right? Because it was in need of a restructure. And one of the things that I realized was I was hyperinflated with the amount of space I had. And pandemic really proved that no matter how big the facility was, it's really tied to how many people we can work on the floor based on these guidelines that were dished out. And in our area, you know, they were using 6 feet. of social distancing. And if you apply this little 6-foot by the width of a barbell, you start getting some like physical 50 to 75 square feet per client. And you just end up looking at your floor space as how many people can I get on there? Because I need that many people on the floor to even make enough money. And a lot of these massive facilities soon realized no matter how much floor space you had, you were probably tied to anywhere from 6, 9, 15 people on the floor, no matter how much space you had. So it sort of dawned on me, this is a math equation. This is based on a fixed capacity. So what I realized is I had 4,000 square feet of space that I can't use. So when all said and done, we started looking at it and said, hey, Let's go down to a smaller space. I remember when I first started, I started in 1,000 square feet and then we went to 2,000. I was the happiest I've ever been. And it was because we didn't have 2 floors to manage, a bigger staff to, you know, have all of these communication and execution through other people, payroll, payroll taxes. It just got really complicated over the years as my ambition grew to grow. And then this was the reset button.

So let me, uh, pull something out of what you're saying. So you were at 2,000 square foot, you started at 1,000, went to 2,000, and in reflecting now you're like, that was when I was the happiest. You then at some point between then and now you grew to 4,000 square feet. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. So my journey in the size of facility, I started out in 1,000 square feet. We had 60 clients in that 1,000 square feet. Then we grew to 2, you know, I need more spots, I need more class times, that kind of deal. Went to 2, 3, 4, at one point it had 5,000 square feet. And then during the pandemic, we realized that it was in our best interest to rent out our facility, other space, and go down to 2,000 where we were capped out on how many people we could actually fit. Personally, I feel like you start getting up to in group coaching around 20 members and it gets really difficult to manage the group, the quality, especially depending on the programming. Um, and let alone how experienced your coaching staff is. So you really start finding that the floor space probably fluctuates between 12 and 20.

What would you say back then was the driver in adding more square feet each time?

ambition of like wanting more and just, you know, I justified it as I just want to help more people. I need more, you know, space to do that. And what you realize is that in our line of work, our popular times are typically AM and PM.

Mm-hmm.

So in order for you to duplicate, you would either need to grow the class size or have a second floor. So really that was my point of saying, all right, I'm gonna grow more people, but I need 2 floors running at the same time in order to reach that class size and still hold that, you know, 20-person cap per coach that we felt comfortable because payroll and, you know, how many people we can service with our staff is a big part of this equation.

Yeah. So I'll let you get back to the math thing, but I want to just highlight this for people listening. We see this a lot with gym owners who reach a state where maybe one of their classes is really full and they have a waiting list. Um, maybe a couple of the classes, but definitely not even 50% of the classes are totally full. They immediately jump to the solution is to add more square footage. So either maybe I need a second location, or maybe I can find the neighbor and I can bump a wall out, that type of thing. And what I would like to just say is that is not the only solution. And I would argue there's probably a couple things you want to do before you jump into more square footage, especially if you're thinking about a totally complete separate location. You got to maximize the profitability of the current space to its fullest, which I think is what your formula is going to help people figure out. But it's like, do that first. Like, it's okay to have a waiting list. That's fine. But man, you add that extra square footage, now all of a sudden you need 100 more members just to cover the new additional cost. And as you mentioned, 2,000 square feet versus 4,000 square feet, you were happier on the smaller square footage. And I think what we're gonna also tease out throughout this is you're gonna share with us how you're even more profitable now going back to the smaller square footage than adding the additional headache. thinking it was going to somehow make you more money, but it doesn't always work out that way, guys.

Yeah, you hit it on the head. And what doesn't get talked about often is when we're owner and manager, there's a lot that goes into mentally. We were talking about bandwidth earlier of just rent goes up, okay, that's a sunk cost each and every month. Then if, like I said, we added another class, another focus, well, your advertising goes up, your payroll goes up, And if you know you don't take this as an eye-opener of saying, "I'm not going to increase my prices with all those sunk costs going up," it becomes the trigger. I think for a lot of gyms and gym owners out there that they try to grow through volume instead of saying like you are step back and say there's more ways to grow and maintain the lifestyle of a career that you can hang out with your friends, that you can have weekends off, that you can travel. Because everything that I described before and my ambition of growing actually made it harder to do all those things because there was more moving parts. And so when I said I'm happier back, you know, in my facility and more profitable, it's because we cut away at some things that were excessive and that stole time that I no longer wanna place into the business. I wanna place that, you know, with my daughter now and my family. That was a big part of this reflection too, John, is once I had a kid and you know this, you realize that the time you had before and when I'd come home in the evening, I didn't have the extra 2, 3 hours that I'd be pounding keys or brainstorming. It's like you get home and you got kids, you're like, nope, there's nothing else getting done. Yeah, that's—

yes. I have 4 kids if you guys don't know. Little— they're so great. Yeah. So anyways, You're at 4,000 square feet, you have this reflection, you're like, I was happier with smaller space. How many members did you have at 4,000 square feet? How many members do you have now? And tell us about how you kind of reverse engineered this, the profitability and the pricing stuff.

Yeah. And, you know, my number was always 200 members. And, you know, I felt like when running the math, everything was mathematically on point for where it needed to be. And what I underestimated is, yes, that was, you know, a great goal to have and work, but it just required so much effort to run. And that, guys, was, you know, where I'm at in my career. I really wanted to do more with less. And, you know, what I realized is it's a lot of work to run a 200-person facility and keep everyone happy and, you know, continue to find the leads and the sales to replace the outflow. And when I started crunching the numbers, the attrition goes way down when you have less membership base, you can have a better relationship with your clients, and in doing that, your service goes up, and therefore you can provide something that anyone in your competitive market that's trying to race to volume can't provide, which is attention, which is individualization, which is what people want. They want, in my opinion, accountability and guidance and to feel like when they come to class, they're seen. And when we started really focusing on getting back to what I'd call our roots of why we started this, the solution was clear. It was we needed to cut the excessive costs and increase our rates.

And how did you, how did you do that? What, how did you determine to increase your rates? Because we're not talking like A price increase of $10 here.

Well, uh, and, and as I walk you guys through this formula here in a minute, what I'm starting to see, guys, is that many of the, the group fitness, uh, you know, facilities are way too big. So there's, uh, excessive rent, um, and, uh, we don't need all that space to serve, say, 15 to 20 people at a time. And 2, there was a lot more staff on board than needed. So in cutting those, and then when you really look at the big equation of if owners could barely make a salary that allowed them to pay their bills, to have a savings, to invest, to pay for healthcare, Kids' education, like all of that was important to me and I didn't want to jeopardize that. When I think of professional career, I think of, I want what everyone else has, right? Like in that sense of stability. So that was a big part of this of saying, I will not jeopardize those things just because I'm passionate about coaching people. It has to mathematically make sense financially and the career of doing what I love. So that was a big part of it. And then the other part that seldomly gets talked about because it's probably not there in abundance is the profit margins of saying, how are we going to grow? How are we going to expand? How are we going to invest in, uh, measurable things that actually add to the bottom line? Not just adding a bigger facility or a separate program because we're passionate about it, but actually look at the math. So that's what I wanted to do in saying, if we add up the actual cost of this career for myself and, uh, for what I want for other owners, I arrived at a $10,000 a month, uh, minimum, we'll call it. Okay. I want a profit of owner's benefit.

Of owner's benefit. Okay.

Income coming in for the owner. Uh, it had to be there because, you know, how many hats do owners wear?

And $762,000, I've done the math.

Yeah, good. So you figured that out. I knew that's why we met here. But when you think of it, it's like, however you want to divide that owner benefit up, call it, you know, $60,000 in salary and the other in profit, whatever. But that take-home for the owner, I think it's justified. And then we really start taking a look at all the expense that I mentioned— rent, employees, you know, keeping the lights on, all that stuff, advertisement spend, Everything has to be included, guys. And we'll just kind of, you know, be creative with me if this is too much for you to deal with, saying I'm not changing anything. I'm not asking you to, but just dream with me here and said, what if you just included everything you needed in your budget and said, bam, that's the number that we have to make to make it all work? And that's what I did. I said, I just want to look at the math. Let's just take a step back. And then through this formula of looking at how many people we can fit on the floor, how do we account for occupancy and knowing that just because you need to hit your ceiling goal of this is how many people I can fit in the facility doesn't mean you actively operate at that year round. Right, and like nobody operates at capacity around, so a lot of people set goals at capacity but never operate there year round, so. I already know there's months where you're taking a loss and other months just look like, but they're really just covering losses. So that's what I wanted to really do is say, how do we build stability in the industry? How do we build consistency? We have to start being honest with ourselves and it starts with the numbers.

So the first thing you did is you said, look, I got $10,000 of owner's benefit, add my rent expense, add my coaching costs, and look at the other expenses. You add all those numbers up And that now gives you— this is my revenue goal each month. Boom.

That's simple, right? And the only thing that we need to do is understand how many people can we fit on that floor. Yep.

How many people?

And I'm saying year-round. And if we do that, it's going to arrive at the price point that you need to charge at a realistic number that you need to maintain year-round, this number of people at this rate year-round. And we've already factored in some of the occupancy issues, so I'm just being 100% clear on saying this is a real target now.

So walk me through this a little bit, um, because I know dealing with gym owners, they don't— they like the benefit and results of running numbers, but sometimes they might tune us out. Um, and I want people to stay engaged here because this is big what we're talking about.

Yeah.

So let's say that number becomes $20 grand a month in revenue, covers my expenses and gives the owner $10,000 in benefits. Next step is to look at how many people— what's the max number I could fit? I start with the max number in each class and then however many classes I have that makes sense. And I'm assuming then you use some sort of percentage knowing that no one's ever at full capacity, like What did you do there?

Yeah, I, I think this probably is better to walk through the formula visually.

Okay.

Um, but to answer your question, we took a look at, you know, the average number of attendance, uh, per client, and I realized that on average clients come 3 days a week. Um, there's only a small percentage of people that, you know, come at these 4 or 5 times a week, especially with the clients that struggle for consistent fitness routines, the ones that are so busy that they have kids and family and careers. I'm talking about those people, not your 1%ers of highly competitive people. So that was really getting clear on who you want to work with and who can help support the business and this dream I'm telling you about. So when you look at it that way, You arrive at how many people can be in your facility from a capacity. And what I'm saying is then you apply, well, how much do I need to compensate for with people not on the coaching floor? So if you look around, guys, you'll notice that you have 1, 2, 3, maybe 5 spots that are not filled every class. And that's what I'm talking about is—

Mm-hmm.

If you don't account for those spots as a part of normal operations, Because you got some people coming out, you got some people coming in, some good months, some not. We just arrive at an average and say, hey, 85% of the time you're gonna have, you know, 15% of your class not there. And if we just run the numbers based on that, we're gonna be okay. And John, in real estate, we do this based on tenant turnover. You know, the building's never 100% rented out. There's always going to be transitions of tenants. We might lose a month of rent. We have to assume that and build in that to the formula and we'll be okay.

Yeah. You can't build this formula or the idea of your revenue goals based on the concept that you're going to be at 100% capacity. Yeah.

It's a bad idea.

Okay. So come up with this percentage. So then let's say you're— so you're thinking through it. I got 3, if they're attending 3 classes a week, I have X amount of slots available in classes, so that means I can accommodate, call it, 120 members a month. So then you take your $20,000 divided by the 120 members, and that's boom.

So that's what I want to walk you guys through today with the numbers and, uh, have a discussion about this. One, I want this to freak people out because here's what I found. On average, gyms are $50 a month per member undercharging. So when you said, oh, we're not talking about $10 a month, I'm like, no, we're talking about a massive rate discrepancy between the dream career that's going to keep people in this till we're freaking old and have 401s and kids through college, or we're talking about burnout, massive burnout. in and out of the career in 3 to 5 years saying, I gotta go get a real job.

Yep.

Okay, that's all.

That's the reality, guys. Like, we do not talk about the danger of burnout enough in this industry, and I believe burnout is directly correlated to profitability. If you're profitable, then obviously it makes sense to continue to do what you do. But if you don't— if you're working as hard as I know you are working and you don't have anything to show for it, your willpower will eventually burn out. Your need to put food on the table will also always take over. Maslow's hierarchy of needs teaches us that. And you are just, you are going to have to find another solution, which is likely away from your passion of helping people have a healthier, happier life. So, yeah, like we have to avoid burnout. So, I am excited, Chris.

So I only have shown this and we work this as an active model inside my Factory Forged group and consultant. So I want you to criticize this. And for those of you guys out there, like, that's why I turned to you and said, hey, I got this thing that I really want your feedback. You know the numbers. So let's lean into this and use it as a way to improve the— I want this to change the industry and saying, hey, we need to raise the standard. It starts with just recognizing the bottom line and knowing what it is. So feel free to completely criticize this.

Okay.

All right, so I'm gonna just kinda go through the math here that we talked about, and then we'll spit out the average price. So here's how I broke it down in categories. First, the total expenses, I tried to keep it a little bit cleaner by just saying, here's one category, but you know, from itemizing it, You know, you've got your rent, your internet, your water, you know, your advertising, all that stuff that goes into operating expenses. And the biggest budget item in that area is going to be rent. You know, I work with gyms that, you know, are 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 square feet, and then I see 10,000 square feet. And what the biggest difference maker is in profitability is rent. And when it comes to operating expense. I personally like to keep clients that we work with for maxing profit out at $5,000 or less in rent. So with that understood, I've found a general formula here where if you take your rent plus about $4,000, it arrives at what I think it costs to run and operate the facility, just from an operating— you got advertising. Uh, a lot of gyms, believe it or not, are not advertising because they didn't build it into the budget.

Yeah, and I would just say from my experience, $4,000 is good. Um, I know from like, if you run the Profit First system and you're not profitable, like, you can get that down a lot. Our gym, we're at $2,000 more, like the, the non-payroll the non-rent expenses, but $4,000 is safe for sure.

Cool. So let's just say you're paying $4,000 a month in rent and then we throw the $4,000 on top right there, that's $8,000 in operating expenses. And I've been there, I've done the bootstrap thing of like, I'm going to get it as lean as possible. But as you build the career, these are essential to growth. And the more you cut out and try to grow, like an advertising budget, or let alone the time to market your business, you're cutting corners and you're gonna realize that you're short on leads, you're short on sales, or you don't have the bandwidth to serve your clients at premium rates and the math won't work out. So let's just use that as an example, but I'm glad you approved that it's somewhere within reasonable amount.

Mm-hmm.

Payroll, I separated. Between owner's pay, just to show visually.

Yep.

But, you know, this will vary, obviously, pay rates times how many classes. But a good formula that I found is take a look at your entire class schedule per week. So in this example, I had 27 classes. All that means is 5 classes a day, Monday through Friday, 2 on Saturday, closed on Sunday. Subtract out how many classes as an owner you want to coach. I've found with the clients that I work with, there's a lot of passion and excitement for coaching. They— that's why they started the business, but they don't want to be so into it, um, where they can't work on the business. So I find typically the owner has between like 4 and 6 classes, or we break it down in 2 to 3 shifts is how we look at it at Forge. So you subtract that out of the payroll, that would mean I have somewhere around 20 classes of— I need to get filled. No matter if it's part-time or full-time or whatever, if you apply 20 classes times $15 to $20 per class, you're going to arrive somewhere at that number plus payroll tax. And boom, that's where we've got that $4,000 amount. I see you shaking your head about— we're checking the—

John, I— yep, I like, uh, the way you've explained how they can calculate payroll. It is pretty straightforward. It's just what's the cost of your class, how many classes are you paying out to somebody else. Um, those of you who know with the Profit First system, I like to include in the team member expense, which is what this would be if you are coaching a class, that you include your costs in the team member expense. This analysis is a little bit different because he's already established a salary of $5,000 and profit of $5,000. So, um, just know that it's a little bit of a different view to look at things, which is totally okay and appropriate when you're doing analysis. Um, but yeah, I think, uh, that's a great way to figure it out. And your number might be higher than that, maybe it's lower, but, um, that's the best way to figure that number the way you described it.

Yeah, and it may be that, you know, you've got a $3,000 coaching budget and $1,500, uh, you know, in there, and it goes up to $4,500, uh, because you have an administrator or you've got, you know, someone helping out behind the scenes, out off the floor. So, uh, that can all be factored in there. But what I was saying, you know, I really believe, uh, owner's benefit, owner's income needs to be held at $10K for all of the hats and roles. So bear with me on that and just let me show you what the math works. And I know a lot of people out there are probably shaking their heads saying, man, I would kill for that career of being able to bring that income in. And I'm saying it's possible if we just look at the math and say what needs to change on the front end to charge these type of rates. So you hit it on the head. You called out $20,000. It comes to $22,700. With accommodating taxes and whatnot. I think I remember you telling me like, no gym should pay more than 15%. So that's where that number came from, 15% of $5,000 and just $22,750. Yeah, that's good.

And we definitely believe gyms, they're the ones generating your tax burden. They should be the ones saving for it. So when we look at that $10,000 that as an owner you can take home, We're saying from a Profit First standpoint, you should be able to live off of, uh, the full amount. You shouldn't have to then take money out of that and pay income tax. The company should continue to cover that for you.

Love that. And yeah, and that's— that can be a big misconception too, of where that's not actual income to like that you get cash in your account, right? So that's what I want to look at is if we just base it on what you actually receive, not just on the paper of saying you made this and then yeah, you had to give up a lot, a lot of that to the IRS. Um, we got to start being honest with what you physically need, uh, to, to live the lifestyle, if you would. Um, so, uh, then to your point earlier, you know, the formula accounts for, uh, 27 classes. That was my analogy there. 5 classes a day, 2 on the weekend, Sundays off. And from there, it really comes back to how many people can you fit on the floor?

Perfect.

And, you know, in my facility, after reworking the math and creating these pods, which I love the pandemic for doing because I think it really tightened up efficiency in the world of group class, and we all know members will stand crooked and crossways and they, they need all of a sudden 10 times the amount of space and bubble to feel comfortable, yet That's how we make our money. And if we don't have an efficient floor, they could be taking up 2, 3, 4 spots. And that's the reason why you're expanding to a bigger facility and increasing your operating costs. So this was an eye-opener, I think, for so many gyms out there of saying, this is actually a benefit I don't want to lose, is marking your spots. So 27 classes times 15 spots, Per class, 405 total number of attendances. Average weekly attendance per client, like you said, we divide that number and then we apply our class capacity. And we end up with 115 spots. You know, and we take that number, it's that simple, down at the bottom, $2,275 divided by that 115. You need to have $198 a month membership. It's core membership. These are the people that— in Factory Forged, we have 2 different types of memberships. I don't want to go too deep into this, but I need to recognize the 2 different play a big role. Is your core are the people that are long-term, they're committed, they have essentially identified that you are the person that's gonna keep them fit year round. And they have gotten past what I'd call like the honeymoon phase of, is this right for me? We actually have 2 different memberships for a reason, because all our new clients coming in pay for our marketing. So our initial coaching programs are actually $100 per month for new clients until they get out of that phase of the program. But I want to make this known, is this is your core membership of people that you have on autopay. This needs to be $198, uh, at 115 members to reach this level of, I think, financial stability and profitability.

It's great. So if, if you're listening to this, um, You may be thinking like, oh great, that sounds nice in theory. So tell us what you actually did when you did your own calculation.

Yeah, and to be honest, this, um, example calculation is not too far off. I'd say the only difference is I told you guys I, I can't really have, uh, 15 on the floor because of my floor space, so I can only have 12, but you see that I had to increase my rates substantially. We were $195. We had to go up to $232 a month. And to your point, that was a big jump. So learning how to—

Was it scary?

Hell yeah, it was scary, man. It was like, you know, I've done this for over 13 years. And anytime you say you're going to increase rates on people that have given you loyalty, I have 5 10-year clients. Guys, 10-year client. Not many people have that many 10-year clients. And my point is, the best clients that I have ever looked back on are the ones that ebb and flow with your growth. And that means that each time that we've made price changes and, you know, things for the betterment of our membership, they've hung in there and they've come up with us. And that was that moment of like, they get it, they respect me, my profession, they understand we're worth it. And they're willing to say, hell yeah, you're 100% worth it. I totally get why you have to do that. And that's, that's a scary thing. So I'm saying to you guys, I was afraid of that too, but I knew deep down if I ran it by the numbers and I needed to achieve everything for my family and my future to stay in this, because the pandemic was a perfect opportunity to either get out or restructure. So what I said is I chose to restructure. You know, I had a little bit more of a, you know, a push. I had the day my daughter was born was the day we shut down the gym. Forced to shut down. So it was like, it's go time. Um, so yeah, I, I think this is a calling to everyone out there that wants a professional career, is it's time to look at not just new people coming in the door, but also your core membership right now and saying, who are the people that you love to work with? Will they respect you enough to come up in price point? Because here's the thing, John. What if we changed this one number? I took this owner's pay and I improved it $1,000 a month. This is a crazy analysis. So if I just said, what would $1,000 mean to you guys per month in personal take-home? How much do you think that membership price has to go up per member?

Per $1,000 per month? I mean, I don't $10?

Let's see, $6,000. I'm just going to look at it for the sake of— it went from $259. I'll bring it back down to $248. $9. You're right on. So my point is $9 a month per member is what it takes to change your personal income $1,000. Break that down to a week. That's a cup of coffee per member. And what I'm saying is we have the ability to transform our lives and get out of the frustration, the suffering, if we just call it what it is and say, this is the career from a number standpoint. How do I grow my business and my skills? And, you know, really talk to people that are willing to see that and pay that. They're out there, guys. And if I could do it, I know that everyone else out there can do it because we're teaching people at FactForge how to do that. And every day, like, I shit you not, like, one of my brand new clients, um, he, he came on, he's 5 new members in, in the last, uh, 6 weeks. And he, he just wrote me, he goes— I said, what's the biggest thing you've learned? He goes— I don't know if I could swear on your, your Facebook Live, but he goes, prices don't effing matter. And this is someone who came in so skeptical, and that's his mindset shift of realizing that, holy crap, there's people out there that will pay the rates I need to be profitable and successful, but somehow I had this mental block.

Yeah, and I— we have that mental block. I can tell you, when we had this conversation, we basically need to raise our prices by about $40 as well, and Like, that is scary.

Yeah, it's scary. I'm standing here saying we've done it. We, we're on the other side of it. Uh, did it crumble? No. Did I lose some members? Yes. The ones who stuck with me respect us, value us, want to move forward. And the people coming in behind them, they love it. The price is not a thing. The sooner you guys get money out of the way We get to focus on what we love to do is how I look at it.

Yeah.

Just do it by the math. So.

I love it. That, it's awesome. And obviously you're a great success story for it. I mean, 4,000 square feet to 2,000 square feet, less of a headache, happier life, more profitability. I mean, it just, I mean, what more do we want?

I think we want, To be like our friends in other careers. I think we want, uh, as gym owners to be respected and to provide for our family and to be proud of what we can offer them. And, uh, that's at stake here. So, John, we are— you, me, and other, you know, uh, people at this subject matter expert level— it is on us to change and, and do what I'm telling you in order to to change the industry of people saying, I'm not gonna change that until I see proof that it's working. And, you know, we're doing this at Factory Forge one by one, just one client at a time saying, hey, what do I need to change to charge rates like that? And that's why people come to work with us is saying, I know I need to increase rates, but how do I provide service that is capable of getting someone to believe in My program can produce what I'm saying it can for those rates, and that's scary. So if you guys are out there, I want you to know that we're doing this every single day. And yes, it does take a transformation of just your your mindset, but also your program. There are steps in place that have higher value to a member, and we've analyzed what those are, and we can back it up every single day. And what I love about you know, this new confidence in the owners is saying, oh, I was doing XYZ and it was costing me all this time, all this energy. And with Factory Fords, I'm starting to look at, I can use software better. I can reach out to my clients in more automated ways. And that's actually what they wanted was more communication from me. And I don't have to use people time to do that. So.

From a psychology standpoint, so I mean, all you guys, I'm pretty open about it. I bought into a failing gym. We're still failing. Uh, but there was a point in my life where I was also just a very poor, right out of college, worked for a company that went bankrupt, which means they didn't pay me for 6 months, um, because I was loyal. like not making any money, starting my own accounting firm and growing. And I can tell you, having that cushion in paying yourself, like if you're paying yourself $2,000 to $3,000 right now and you can get to a point where you're paying yourself $10,000, the clarity that you have just from a standpoint of you're not stressed out about your own bills anymore. I don't know if there's studies that are done on it. I can just don't understand why it works either. You just make better decisions. And you also see these opportunities like you're talking about. Man, if I have that extra cash flow, I'm happy to take some time to reach out to the struggling members. If I'm struggling for my own paying my bills, now all of a sudden there's a bit of resentment. It's like, well, I don't know why you're not coming in. Like, that's stupid. It's on you. You should— it's your fault you're not coming in. Well, it might be their fault they're not coming in, but they'll eventually stop paying their membership. Um, and it's just hard to get past that mentally when you yourself are stressed out about cash.

Totally. Yeah. And, and the future, I think, of this, if, if you just stretch it a little bit further, um, you know, in my, in my Mastery Group, we're talking about Investing now, you know, and, and there's still parts of the industry of like investing, like I don't even know how to pay myself enough to pay my rent. And that's where I want to take this, guys, of saying, you know, 401, kids' college, like we got to get to that level where that's the norm because anything less than It's, it's a laughable job, and it pisses me off, uh, to the fact that like people will say I gotta go get a real job. It like, it just pissed me off. So what I'm saying, it's just a math problem. You look at any massage therapist, therapist out there, $75, $150 an hour, and the amount that we pour into our clients on a monthly basis— we see more than their doctors, we see them more than other professional trades— the impact is there. The results are there. The price is not there, guys.

And the more they're spending time with you in your gym, the less likely need they have to visit those other doctors, uh, which obviously saves them money from a direct cash flow analysis standpoint. Um, but yeah, obviously you can't put a price on health. Like, that's, that's why what we do is so important. So, Chris, thank you so much for your time. This was freaking awesome. Um, I love the formula. Hopefully everyone got some value out of it. Uh, you are part of this group, so if people have questions, feel free to reach out to Chris. Um, tag him in your question and he sees it. So thanks again, everybody. Remember, profitability is a choice, just like raising your prices. Have the courage and wisdom to choose it.