21: Life Changing Practice to Better Your Relationships Through Authentic Relating Training with Ryel Kestano — Fully Human

Welcome back to Fully Human, the podcast that helps you achieve your goals faster by being fully you. I'm your host, Taylor Sleaford, and my mission is to help you, the changemaking leader, show up as the best and complete version of yourself so you can reach your peak potential, increase your impact, and do more of what you love. On this week's episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ryle Castano, who is the co-founder and CEO of ART International, which stands for Authentic Relating Training. If you have never heard of authentic relating, it is a practice, a guide, a set of tools to have more intimate, nourishing, deeper relationships in your life. If you are someone who is looking to have deeper, more meaningful connections in your life, be able to relate to people who you already know or who have you've never met, If you want to better articulate what you're saying, hold space for other people, allow people to feel seen and heard, and create deeper community, then authentic relating is the practice. I have been unofficially practicing authentic relating for years now, and it's really changed my life and my relationships and the way that I connect with other people. And more recently, I I've become close friends with a lot of people and practitioners in the authentic relating space, which is where I was connected with Ryle. And I'm really excited for this episode. Ryle talks about his journey to authentic relating, how it changed his life, what led him to finding this practice, and then ultimately why his mission is to spread authentic relating to the world and help people through Art International and also through his book. And I know you guys are gonna love this episode. If you take the wisdom he has to offer, it will really impact your life for the better starting today. All right, Ryle, welcome to Fully Human Podcast. We're going to talk about authentic relating today, and I figured the best way to get started is with a sentence stem because I know I sent you a questionnaire ahead of time and this is one that you said was your favorite. Um, so if you could finish for me, if you knew me, you would know—

Yeah, if you knew me, you would know that I am a, a dyed-in-the-wool introvert, and that it's taken an immense amount of effort and willingness to be extremely exposed to have spent these last 10 years bringing this work out into the world. And yeah, if you really knew me, you would know that it's kind of caught up with me. Like, I actually am at the point where I just really need a break from the exposure and really just come back into my own skin and safety and sort of hidey-hole. Yeah, it's been very demanding to be at the forefront of this work as long as I have, but the love that I have for this work and sharing it with people has just barely exceeded the fear and anxiety that the exposure has often caused me.

I'd love to dive into that. That's interesting. I also identify with being a massive introvert. And it's interesting because I've seen a lot of people who tend to be introverts and they often are in the forefront, speakers or leaders, So yeah, what is that like for you? How do you balance those two edges?

Yeah, I'm trying to answer that question myself every day. It's been, it's been challenging. I have 4 kids as well who are in the sort of phase of upbringing where they're the most demanding and needing the most attention and support and care. So just juggling that along with all of the work and teaching and everything has been a challenge to maintain balance for sure. I can take, you know, even just a few seconds, moments throughout the day and week just to be really with myself. I mean, the most important and initial practice of authentic relating is connect to self, which is really the notion that we have to be able to cultivate relationship, intimacy, connection with self before we're really able to turn that outward and connect with another. And I'm so grateful for this Connect to Self practice as a way to weave in these moments of nourishment and settling and nervous system regulation, even if it's just a few seconds. I mean, I have a practice of when I get to a red light, for instance, when I'm driving, to take that moment just to be conscious of my breathing, to spend a moment with myself And I think so weaving these little moments of practice throughout the day has been really supportive to maintain a regulated system. But I would say at a meta level, it's just been a sort of leaking drain for a long time. And I'm at the point now where the company is on really stable footing. I don't need to be really involved. Really at all anymore. We have an amazing roster of course leaders and facilitators. I can step away from that. And yeah, I'm excited to sort of pivot into some new directions, spend more time with my family and kids and moving more into coaching and dropping in with people one-on-one and more out of the group setting. So yeah, it's all underfoot. It's all happening. And it's, yeah, it's definitely been a a challenging practice to be able to maintain balance in having enough resource to do the work that I do.

Yeah, that's a really, really cool point you mentioned of connecting to yourself. I imagine a lot of people, if they hear the term authentic relating, they immediately think of relating to others, which is important. But if you can't relate to yourself, if you can't connect to yourself, you don't know what you need. And you don't know how you want to show up. Um, so yeah, we're going to dive into all of the things Authentic Relating. I am curious though, because I know sentence stems are used a lot and you mentioned this is one of your favorites and I'm curious why that is.

Well, I, what I was most excited about Authentic Relating from the very beginning, you know, 10-some years ago was the immediate realization that these skills and tools are relevant and applicable to everyone. This is not some esoteric modality that is, you know, that really should be constrained or limited to a certain few. Really, this for me is a very fundamental practice of being in healthy, nourishing relationships, which everyone— I would say most everyone strives to experience. You know, for me, Authentic Relating and ARTS, the company, has been in the business of providing the missing education, the education a lot of us didn't get, the class that we never were offered in how to be skillful in relationship, how to have the skills to create, cultivate, and participate in good, healthy, nourishing intimate relationships. So from the very beginning, the reason why I was so moved by this work and so resonant with it was because I could feel the implications of it for a universal audience. And that's been ART's mission from the very beginning, is to travel around the world to reach people wherever they are from every walk of life. And probably for me especially far outside the personal development communities and be able to provide these skills and tools for everyone. I started a nonprofit at the same time as starting ART to bring authentic relating to inmates in prisons and jails. Partially to really validate the hypothesis that this work is relevant to really everyone. At the beginning, I was like, I want to see if this is really true. Can I share this and teach this to members of the incarcerated population and see if it resonates there? And it did to an enormous degree. I mean, to the extent that we would just get letters. One after the other of graduates of our courses in prison just saying how life-changing it was for them. So, you know, the sense, um, if you really knew me, you would know, is one that really anyone can complete. It's not— we really wanted to, wherever there was any kind of dogmatic or ideological or, you know, constrained value system in this practice, we wanted to strip away and really make this as universally applicable and relevant to as many people as possible. And so to bring this simple sentence stem around the world, you know, to inmates, to people in Europe and Asia and all across the Americas, and to hear how people step into the completing of that sentence stem, for me has been a real affirmation of the experience of shared humanity that we all have, no matter how different we may be or seem at the surface, underneath those differences, if we spend enough time with each other, I think we have the experience of a shared humanity with everyone, you know, a sense of a global experience of shared humanity. And for me, I describe authentic relating as the language of universal human connection. And that's been, you know, another really beautiful affirmation is that we've traveled around the world, you know, to more than 50 locations, you know, every kind of audience and community and background you can imagine. And it seems like this work resonates for people far and wide, no matter where they come from, how they see the world, their values, their perspectives, their opinions. So that's been really, really fulfilling.

Yeah, the sentence is so interesting. I've been in a lot of circles and asked that question and have been asked that question. And it's always fascinating to see how people will answer because sometimes it might be surface level and then more like your response, it might be a little more vulnerable. I can actually learn about you. I can know you a little deeper. Yeah. So I'm curious, you talk about authentic relating being building intimate and nourishing relationships. And so what is, what is the big difference you see between people who are not practicing authentic relating and those that adopt it? And live it out. How does life look different?

Yeah, I mean, my own life is a living example of it. I spent most of my life just totally disconnected from myself, from others, disembodied, couldn't really feel any sort of nuance in the sensations in my body, really use my head and my mind and, you know, sort of cognitive, rational figuring out systems to get through life. You know, I had a pretty challenging childhood. And a lot of those imprints and wounds were just stored in my subconscious. And then I could start to see the ways that I was sabotaging or undermining or missing something in my intimate relationships. And I don't mean just with romantic partners. I mean with friends. When I started having kids, with my kids, family members. Now I can look back and see that I was so living in a constrained and superficial place in my experience of connection with others. And, you know, I was the catalyst for my discovering authentic relating was my marriage was really struggling at the time. And I couldn't, I didn't understand why. I knew I had a part to play. I knew that there was some way that I was manifesting some subconscious patterns and behaviors but had no idea how to access those and understand those and let alone heal them. And that was the incredible initial and impactful experience of discovering authentic relating was the experience of being so completely welcomed in all of my parts by others in such a way that it created the space for me to learn how to welcome my own self. It had to actually begin with other people seeing me and welcoming me and affirming my wholeness for me to be able to sort of follow that tone and do that work for myself. And that's the beauty of conscious relating is often we can see see other people more deeply than they can see themselves. And in that seeing and reflecting and being with, it creates, sort of excavates the space in which those people can see more deeply into their own unconscious selves. And, you know, I've always said, you know, for real transformation and healing to occur, we have to see it first. We have to have the ability to illuminate these hidden parts of ourselves. I mean, just to give you a personal example, my relationship to my mother was disrupted and essentially severed from a very early age. So I never got that complete sort of healthy nurturance that I needed from my mother figure. And so there's this gaping wound, you know, in my system that I wasn't aware of. I wasn't conscious to, I wasn't tracking where I desperately was longing for a mother figure to keep me safe, to hold me, to take care of me, nurture me. And that became— that was projected onto my intimate partners when I was an adult. And, you know, certainly my part in and my contribution in my marriage at the time when I discovered this practice was my trying to almost essentially manipulate my partner into becoming my mother figure, all of which was occurring unconsciously. I had no idea it was happening. I can look back now and see it as clearly as day. And it was more than any therapy, more than any other modality, teaching, retreat, medicine. It was authentic relating and the skills and tools thereof that really had me be able to see these underlying patterns, see the parts of myself that were unattended to and unhealed and manifesting these patterns of childhood. And it was the initial step of being able to see them that gave me the opportunity to take responsibility for them. And it was in the taking responsibility that gave me more choice in the moment. Rather than just being enslaved to the underlying unattended to pattern, in seeing it, I could take responsibility for it. Oh, this is coming up in this moment. And be able to make a different choice. And it's, it's the ability to make different choices that authentic relating has the most to offer people, rather than just carrying out perpetually and cyclically these patterns that for many of us have been instilled from and since childhood. This practice gives us the opportunity to make different choices in the moment, and it's in the making of a different choice in the moment that can integrate and impact and influence the underlying pattern everywhere. We have this concept called the hologram, which essentially says how you show up in one moment is how you show up in every moment. And, and that speaks to the underlying patterns that many of us are so influenced by, if not enslaved to. And so to be able to see the underlying pattern in real time with someone, to be able to name it, to reveal it, and to make a different choice gives us the opportunity and the possibility of making a different choice in every moment. So, yeah, that's just a little taste of what I've seen as the differences. I will say I want to point out a potential risk or shadow of that dynamic, and that's that early on I was facilitating weekly authentic relating sort of gatherings and sessions, and I started to notice that people were coming as a kind of escape from the world. Like they were saying things like, I just, I can't connect with anyone in my life. I can't relate to anyone, but here I can, right? There's like a kind of oasis in the practice. I can come and relate to people and have the experience of being seen. And that's beautiful in its own way, but it creates an ever-increasing gap between the spaces in which we have values for conscious relating and then the rest of the world that doesn't or isn't in that space. And that troubled me. I wanted to reconcile that gap, not perpetuate it. And so the mission behind our and our work has been to close that gap, has been actually to reach the people outside of these communities that have values for personal development or conscious relating, and to reach people sort of on the margins there and affect transformation there and to see what we can do to be an agent of building bridges where there are divides, you know, and to teach people the skills and tools that they can create connection and intimacy with literally anyone in their lives. Like, the stories that I most appreciate hearing are the stories of people healing, you know, divides and relationships with their parents, you know, with a past partner, with a son or daughter, having a completely transformed experience of a boss at work, a neighbor. It's like these kinds of stories really touch me and really affirm the impact and relevance of this work in the world. And the last thing I'll say to answer your question is, honestly, I believe that the circuits that contribute to conscious relating within each of us are already there. And authentic relating really is just a kind of remembering or reactivating of this inner circuitry that is already designed and disposed to meaningful, nourishing connections. I think somewhere along the way we've lost that. We've lost track of that sort of village tribal vibe of being so deeply connected to the people that we share our lives with. And so for me, authentic relating is holding a mirror and illuminating these parts that already live in us. And that's why I think it's so, at least the way that we teach it, is so effective. Because even with inmates, you know, who have spent their entire lives, you know, with guards and defense mechanisms just to survive, literally within hours of being in a workshop with us, all of that has dissolved. And we're relating with each other as genuine, authentic, heart-centered humans. So that, that blows me away. So I think it lives in us all already, and it's really just an illuminating of that which is already here.

Yeah, that's amazing. You know, a big thing I heard from you in all of that is awareness. It sounds like authentic relating really brings awareness to who we are and who we can be. And it's this reprogramming. And I think about the quote, I think it's Carl Jung that said, until we make the unconscious conscious, it will direct our lives and we'll call it fate. And like you're saying, we, we actually can make these choices and we have it within us. And it's unlearning the way of living or the barriers that we have up. So what I'd love, I'd love to dive into is what does it look like? How do you do these things? How do you help with the relating, whether it's, you know, inmates or a relationship with a parent and then a child? And you mentioned even in your own life of realizing what was the unconscious program that was running you, and then you became aware and you had more choices. So where do people start? Where do you start with people, you know, in your courses, in your book?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you, you pointed to one of the key pieces, which is simple awareness, right? And it's— I mean, many modalities and practices value awareness. What I think authentic relating offers is awareness of the relational space, not just of oneself, awareness of the other, awareness of the world outside. And so, you know, one of the core practices of authentic relating is noticing. Like, we'll start many of our sentences, you know, not in a contrived way, just in a natural and organic way with, "I notice," or, "I'm noticing," which brings the attention to the present moment. What is actually happening here and now? I think a lot of us can get carried away by, you know, stories, past, future. I've started to notice this distinction between the mental space where past, present, future live. We have this concept of linear time, and so we're spending a lot of time exploring points along that linear timeline against or versus the body, which lives in the present, which doesn't track past, present, future. It might store imprints of the past, but they occur in the present moment. And that's where intimacy and the most richness and aliveness live in relationship. Is in the here and now. And so we're dropping— authentic relating really is a language of the body, of embodiment, of the whole. And when I say body, I mean inclusive of the mind, not separate from it. And so a lot of the skills and tools are designed to have us drop into the most subtle sensations and nuances that live in the body and to notice them and to convey them as information about my present moment experience. And that's something I've noticed from as I've tracked my trajectory through this practice. You know, somebody might ask me 10 years ago, "How are you? You know, how are you feeling?" And I would say, "Yeah, I'm fine. I don't know." You know, nothing stands out other than just fineness. And now if somebody were to ask me that, I could spend an hour at least longer and probably infinite time, really peering into all of the complex facets and dimensions of my present moment experience. I think the key, I mean, the first, the very first chapter of the book, within the very first few minutes of our workshop, we are presenting the most important tool for embodiment, which is slowing down. So as far as actual specific techniques and the how, slowing down is among the most effective and important initial steps to get into this practice. A lot of our systems, physiological, neurological systems, require slowing down and spending more time with to notice more aspects. It's like, I mean, just a silly kind of superficial example, uh, we had, we had a bunch of leftover decorations from Halloween including this like plastic spider thing. And I'm like terrified of spiders. It's like my greatest phobia. And my kids, um, I was like doing the dishes or something and they put the spider like behind me and they're, they're like, oh look behind you. And I looked around and I like lost it. I freaked out, right? Like this terrifying shape of a thing that I'm so scared of. And like my entire body and system went into reactive mode, you know, like I literally ran away. And that all happened within like an instant. Like there's no time to think about it or perceive what was happening or be rational about it. It was just instant. And so much of our internal systems are designed for instant reactivity. It's what's kept us alive all this time. You know, it's essential for survival. But if I had had the ability, which I then did when I was able to calm my immediate instinctive reactive system down, was to take stock of the situation, right? Slowing down gives me access to more information. What's actually happening? What is this? What are the surrounding conditions and environmental inputs? What's actually happening for me internally, mentally, physically, emotionally? All these things take time, and once I had the benefit of taking that time, I could see clearly there's no threat, there's no reason to react. It was actually funny and silly and sweet. So this is what slowing down gives us access to our so much of the systems of our bodies need the time to process more information more accurately. And by slowing down, it allows us to move from a low-resolution perception of the world to a high resolution. And it's in that high resolution that we have access to much more of our sensations, emotions, thoughts, down to the most subtle level. And that's what produces intimacy. It's the, it's the naming and revealing and offering of those. In the moment and inviting and creating a space for others to offer their own experience, that's what intimacy is. Intimacy is the ability to relay, to notice and relay multiple complex aspects of the present moment experience. And what that also does, I've noticed, is that it produces and cultivates trust in relationship. If I have done the work and I've seen I've slowed down enough to be in touch with my whole self. I'm not hiding any part of myself. There isn't any hidden part of me that is undermining or influencing what's happening between us. I can see it all. I'm conscious to it all. I can name it all. Like, here's a pattern where if I wasn't aware of it, it would in some way undermine the the space that we're in. Just like how I was manifesting unconsciously strategies to manipulate my partner to be a sort of ever-present, unconditionally loving mother figure. Once I was able to notice that and name it, "Hey, I'm feeling scared right now. I'm noticing I'm wanting, I'm needing a desire, I'm needing a need, I'm having a need for holding, for nurturing, for stabilizing, regulating, to be able to name those without just slipping into and being carried away by it is so powerful and produces trust and intimacy together. I would say absolutely one outcome of people being in this practice together is deeper trust for each other. And that trust I think is so is so healing and so supportive, so important for being able to access the most nourishment in any given relationship.

Yeah, I'm glad that you defined intimacy because reading through your book and hearing some of the language you're using, I imagine a lot of people think of intimacy as more of a romantic thing. And what I'm hearing is it's about depth, it's about, and trust. And I really love that because those seem to be the most meaningful relationships. I know the ones that I have, the ones that I want, the ones that I look for is where I can share and someone else can share and there's support. But I do want to touch on— you talk about noticing. I think this has been one of the most impactful words in my life is being aware of what's true. And if I'm tracking correctly, it seems like it helps remove judgment. And you talk about being present, and I've been leaning a lot into this idea of psychological time. Like, a lot of times we don't think about past, present, future, um, from the mind perspective. And too often we can let our past experiences dictate how we show up in the present based on what we're afraid of in the future.

Yeah.

And when we notice, um, we can be more in touch with reality, like what is true, and we can take away judgment. And I know some of the practices I've done with some close friends and people who are in the authentic relating world is it's the ability and understanding that, hey, I can say what I'm noticing because I want to be honest and I want to be true. Like you mentioned of, I'm scared, or I noticed that when I said something, you looked at your phone, or I noticed that Your body language changed. And then we can check in rather than making an assumption of you're not listening to me or you're upset or whatever the case may be. So I'm curious, any thoughts you have around that? Like how noticing and naming that can help create a shared reality and let go of judgment?

For sure. Yeah. Thank you. I wanted to just spend a moment actually talking about what you'd mentioned earlier about intimacy. Often being conflated with romantic relationship. And it's like, yeah, if there's one thing that I could really convey to everyone is that the range and depth and world of intimacy goes so far beyond just the romantic arena. Intimacy is available between humans anytime, anywhere. Under any conditions. And I've experienced it, I've seen it, I believe in it. I used to— I was playing when I first discovered all these skills and tools. I mean, being an introvert, it was like the way out. It gave me the way to come out of my shell and really connect and relate with people on a deep and vulnerable level. And I was just like so excited. I was beyond excited to get out into the world and practice those. And I was running a marketing company back then when I first discovered this work, and I was traveling around the country a lot for work. And I created this little game for myself that I would try to create an experience of intimacy with whoever sat next to me on the airplane. No matter how I was feeling or how I perceived them, I would usually default to like, oh, they're not interested, or They don't care. I'll just leave them alone. So it really had me on my edge in a positive, constructive, healthy way. And I would just start off and sort of muster the courage and just start off like, how's it going today? Where are you headed to? How's your trip been? Doesn't really matter. Just a way of just piercing the wall, the perceived wall between us. And then it would just go from there. And I would say, Almost entirely, I mean, with very, very few exceptions, I got to experience not only an experience of intimacy, but of, I almost want to say life-changing intimacy. I mean, it was an experience of leaving those conversations so moved and so touched and so imprinted with the experience of truly being with another human being for a bit of time that it really left me the experience of believing intimacy is not only available between humans anytime, anywhere, but is actually the default state between humans. I think it takes more effort to maintain disconnection and isolation than it does to connect for a moment. I mean, I practice this just at the grocery store, you know, just with the cash register. We're standing there across from each other for a few minutes and we could just be in our own little bubbles that whole time. And to take a moment, "Hey, how's it going today? How are you feeling?" Or they might make a comment and rather than just give some scripted answer, I'll just actually drop into present moment connection with them. It's meaningful. It's meaningful and it's nourishing. I imagine for them, they're seeing people just coming through like automatons, just almost dehumanized, all the individual people that are coming through. And to have like a moment in the day of like, hey, I see you and I acknowledge you. And we get to be human here together just for a moment, I think is deeply meaningful. And it's those small moments in aggregate that create meaning and intimacy and depth and nourishment in one's life. So I definitely want to totally decouple the notion that intimacy can only happen, you know, romantically, sexually, whatever, in those arenas, and that it's available— not only available, but, you know, it's— the potential for it is so ripe in every human interaction and every moment that humans are sharing space. Space. So I just wanted to name all that because I think it's a vital point. And I had no idea.

So powerful. I just want to share your example of the grocery store is so true. I remember sometime in the past year I went to the store and was checking out and the cashier asked, oh, how are you doing? How's your day? You find everything you need? The typical stuff. And then I said, yeah, I did. Everything's good. How are you? And she paused and looked at me and was like, wow, thanks for asking. And it just, it hit me at my core because I'm like, wow, how many people have passed by and not asked her? And how this might be the first time all day or all week or all month that she's felt seen. And I can totally connect with what you're saying. And it kind of becomes a fun game. Like life becomes richer when you're at a bus stop, you're on a plane, you're anywhere, and you can and just connect and get curious. And you have no idea where that could take you.

Oh, totally. I mean, I just, just a recent example. I was just flying back from Europe after teaching a leadership course there, and I was stuck on the, we were stuck on the plane for like 6 hours in Frankfurt waiting for a plane to take off, then another 10-hour flight. And when they announced this, the woman next to me, older woman, was like, oh, I'm going to miss my connection. And that was all it took. I was just like, "Oh, where are you trying to get to?" Her mother had fallen, so she had to fly from Germany to New Mexico to care for her and be with her. And the threads just unfolded just before us in this most organic, natural, fluid, beautiful way. We were in conversation for hours and hours without noticing the time going by at all. The 6 hours we were on the ground just disappeared in a second. And at one point, hours into our conversation, she said something like, you know, I've never told anyone the things that I'm telling you now. And that's not an isolated experience. I've heard that quite often, you know, and like, well, what is it? You know, what, what is it? What are we creating together that has people feeling enough trust and enough intimacy to really reveal these more hidden parts of themselves. And I think it's just genuine presence, you know. It's that I really want to just be here with you. And I think we all have the capacity for that, of being with, just simply being with. We don't need to fix each other. We don't need to prove anything to each other. We don't need to construct some version to be be liked or accepted with each other. We just get to be. That's it. Just be together. And I think that's the environment, the energy that produces such intimacy and the willingness to be deeply seen. And the experience for somebody to have that, of being deeply seen, it's so healing. It's so nourishing. It's so affirming. I'm okay. I'm not missing anything. I don't need to be I don't need to be somebody other than who I am, you know, to be worthy of experiencing these things and being seen. And that's really the most beautiful central message of this practice is you don't need to be anything or anyone other than you to be worthy of being deeply seen and loved and celebrated and honored. That's the experience I want for everyone. I wanted to respond to your prior question around the noticing without judgment. I wanted to point out, like, it's not that this practice is going to strip you of judgments and assumptions that you have about people at all, because you're human. If you're human, you're going to have judgments. You're going to be attracted to people and repelled from people naturally. Authentic relating is just being honest about it. And revealing it, right? And to the extent that you're able to own it, this is mine, right? It's like, it's one thing to say, you're just not listening to me, right? And the other person's like, no, I am, I totally am, right? It's arguable. So you're making a blanket judgment that isn't owned. It's making it real and not giving the opportunity for the person to be their sovereign selves. They're mysterious selves, you don't actually know what's happening. Versus saying, "I notice I'm having a judgment, a perception, a belief, a story, a thought that you're not listening to me. Is that true?" Well, number one, it's mine, I'm owning it, that's genuine for me, I'm actually having that perception or judgment and I'm not hiding it, I'm not making it real, I'm not having it slip into the relational space unconsciously or unchecked. I'm naming it as it's happening, and then because I have a value for staying relational with you, I'm checking it out with you. I had this experience, I had this moment in a course once where I was teaching and I had, I don't know, 30 students, and I noticed off to the side in the circle somebody was typing away on their phone while I was teaching something. And immediately I was like, I had the immediate reaction of judgment. You know, why are you here on your phone texting, posting to Facebook, whatever the hell it is that you're doing? And I could start to feel that sort of judgment putting its roots down in me. It would have made it real for me. This person is doing the thing that I believe they're doing. And I'm going to relate with them as if it were definitely true. And then I could start to notice I'm like avoiding them or I'm sort of pushing them out a bit, whatever. But because we have one of our— we have 5 practices of authentic relating and one of them is assume nothing, which is the invitation to notice the assumptions I make and then check them out. So, I went over to him on a break. I was like, "Hey, I noticed you were typing on the phone." And I'm wondering what's happening, you know, just getting curious. And he's like, oh, I'm just taking notes. I'm like, I'm so fascinated by everything that you're sharing. I just can't even keep up with how many notes I'm taking. And I didn't bring a paper, so this is all I've got. And so it just, the needle swung like completely from one direction to another. Like not only was I wildly off in my assumptions, But by checking it out, I could actually be in real and right relationship with him, you know, instead of through the distorted lens of my assumptions. So that's another way of noticing and owning and bringing it out into the relational space is that we get to be in accurate relationship with each other instead of distorted relationships that are produced by our own past. And, you know, I have a wound around not mattering, which which goes back to childhood. I wasn't kept safe when bad things were happening to me, so I must not matter. That was the conclusion my very young mind came to. And so I'm always watching for people tuning out, checking out, losing interest, because then that validates this perception that I don't matter. And I'm just blanketing, I'm having a blanket assumption that everybody's doing that all the time. It's not actually accurate. It's not like they are actually checking out. I'm imposing that assumption on them, and then without checking it out, it's real. I'm making it real, and then I relate to them as if it were real. And yet again, this is another way to lead into intimacy, is the willingness, the courage, the vulnerability of checking out my beliefs, my perceptions, my assumptions with the people I'm in relationship with so that we can calibrate ever closer to accurate relationship with each other.

Yeah, that goes back to what you were saying before about connecting to yourself. And so when you connect to yourself, you can understand what wounds you have, and then when you notice, you can let them come about and see what they are, and then you can make a choice based on, is this true, is this not true, or how do I want to show up? And, um, that, that example is so resonant. I, I use examples a lot with clients around relationships, cuz I think we can all connect with that of maybe someone you're interested in doesn't respond to you or text back. And it's like, well, we could, what we notice is they didn't respond, but we could create stories that they're not interested or they don't care. Or the other story could be maybe they, they like us so much they don't know what to say, or maybe their phone died. And it sounds like these practices give you real-world tools to kind of do that. And not let your head or your mind just take over. Yeah. So I'd love to know what it, what does it look like? You, I was, I've been reading in the book, you mentioned there's 5 practices. What does a workshop look like? You know, you come to Authentic Relating on a weekend, you know, what is that process like for somebody?

Yeah, I mean, it's predominantly a training, right? It's like we're training you in the skills and tools that you need to go out there in the world and create the most meaningful, nourishing, intimate relationships possible between humans. So, you know, I have a little, a little judgment against workshops that only provide some kind of peak experience where you feel really good basically at the workshop, but then there's a crash or confusion or like, well, okay, great. So what now? Like, how do I actually translate that into my life. And then there's this sort of like underlying shadow of like, well, you actually have to keep coming back to the workshops, you know, to get this peak experience. And we approach it exactly the opposite. It's like, make your entire life the peak experience, and we're going to teach you the skills and tools to be able to do that. So it's primarily a training. So we're teaching the skills and tools, then we're getting everybody to practice those with each other in exercises. And then naturally, of course, there's profound intimacy and connection in the group because we're using these skills and tools with each other to cultivate deeper, more meaningful, more intimate relationships. And that's occurring one-on-one, in threes and fours, and then in the whole group as well. So people most often leave with this sense of being much more at home in themselves. Having had the experience of being so deeply seen by people and empowered. They feel empowered, right? I can actually go out into my life and I know how to create deeper, more meaningful, closer relationships with people. I know I can feel myself such that I can be vulnerable and revealed with people that I encounter in life. And we've noticed that again, you know, going back to this notion that the circuitry for intimacy and meaningful connection already lives in us, we've noticed that as graduates of our courses go out into the world and practice, the people that they're in relationship with in no way themselves had to have come to a workshop. It's the graduates themselves that create a space of permission by them embodying and modeling the practice themselves. Themselves. It's fascinating to see and hear stories of graduates going out, applying the skills and tools that they've learned, and the other people, no matter who they are, they might have had the least amount of conscious relationship training at all, and yet still they drop into the same quality and depth of connection of an MSc as the person who went through the course. Because I think the modeling and embodying of it occurs as permission for others to drop into their vulnerable selves, their fully revealed selves. And then together we get to, you know, go to depths of connection that are profoundly nourishing and meaningful.

Yeah, it's like the story you told in the airport where by being present it shows someone else that it's possible and they don't have to go through the training and they can realize that things can be different. You can have conversations that you didn't realize you could have or be vulnerable or be safe. So that's amazing. So you have a book, you wrote a book. I'm curious what prompted that. Where does that fit in with— you've got the trainings, you now have the book. Is it complementary? Is it, you know, something that's helpful to do ahead of time? Yeah, what was your goal there?

Yeah, well, I mean, my mission's always been to share this work and practice with as many people around the world as I can in this short window of a life that I have. Um, not everyone can come to a course. I understand that. We've tried to make them as, as accessible as possible. I mean, we're, like I said, in 50+ locations around the world plus online. I think we have probably the most affordable courses of our kind anywhere in the industry. We have scholarship seats. I mean, we really do everything we can to make these courses available to people as possible. And still there's going to be a lot of people who can't take the time off, who can't afford it, who just, you know, aren't able to make it. And so the book is yet another way to get this work into people's hands. And I wrote it, you know, to be as practical and practically applicable as possible. It's like I want people to read it and be able to immediately apply what they're reading and learning about to their actual real-life relationships and be able to experience transformation right out of the gate. That's partially due to how simple the tools and skills are to learn. And yeah, just, just partially due to— I think people already know what to do and how to navigate and create these kinds of relationships. They just need a little bit of nudging and articulation to get them going. I've been a writer for many years. I went to graduate school for creative writing. I'm a previously published author. So, writing was already in my wheelhouse and it comes naturally and easily. And it just felt, I don't know, it felt right. It just felt on purpose, on mission. Fulfillment of why I'm here. And it was also like I've dedicated, I've sacrificed an enormous amount to dedicate these 10 years to studying and becoming an expert in this practice. And it's like many people in this world, I feel really compelled to leveraging the efforts I've put into gaining this knowledge and expertise for the benefit of others. It would just be squandering it. I would feel probably terrible if I just squandered it and didn't share with anyone. So there's this natural impulse to make use of the efforts I put into understanding the nature of this practice for the benefit of others. And the book is everything I've ever learned about authentic relating, conscious relating, from the work I've done and then studying under many other teachers. Teachers in the, in this field, uh, altogether. So, um, yeah, so that, that's, that's the impetus primarily behind writing the book.

Amazing.

And I'll just add too, I think just too, like, for probably a lot of authors, the, the experience of producing something that can outlast one's own lifetime is, is incredibly meaningful. You know, I could die tomorrow and the book will outlive me. I could die whenever I die, and the book will outlive me. And the idea that in 100 years or whatever, that somebody could still get some value, you know, from what I've put into this book is very settling. It's relieving, settling, affirming, relaxing. So there's that as well.

That's amazing. I love having the different avenues. It really sounds like the experience is powerful because you're, you're doing it, you're living it, you're breathing it in the training. And also, I know someone like me is— I'm such a visual person and I've really been enjoying the book and I can process slowly and take pieces and start practicing. And I imagine for anyone listening today that this is something they want. This is something they need to relate better, to have more intimacy. I'm curious if you could give listeners just one piece to start today? Like, what is one way they could start authentic relating and practice before they go buy the book and take the training?

Yeah, well, I've already mentioned slowing down. So in your next interaction with someone you're in relationship with, just slow down. Slow down the pace of your words. I always say the breath should actually set the set the tone, set the pace, actually establish deep, slow, conscious breathing, and then the words intersperse in between the breaths. That's a really great way of tracking a slow enough pace to be able to be really present and drop in with somebody. And then, so we have this teaching called the 3 levels of conversation, which is informational at the top. Talking about data and facts, and then personal is the second. We're talking about how we feel about the facts. And then the third level is relational, which is defined specifically by the here and now. How am I feeling right here, right now with you? How are you feeling right here, right now? When you say something, how am I impacted by that right now? And revealing that impact. When I say something, asking you, how is it like to hear that? I teach an authentic dating course and I'm a dating coach among other coaching offerings. And one of the most effective questions I have people ask on a date is, "How is this date going?" So simple, right? And there's no script for it because it's happening right now. And so anywhere we can bring the attention to the here and now is where the most aliveness and intimacy is going to live. So what's happening now? How am I feeling? How are you feeling? What's it like to share that? What's it like to hear that? How is this going? All of these questions are designed to point and direct the attention to the present moment, to the here and now. And that, that's where the most richness, aliveness, intimacy, connection, depth all live. So going slow and being in the here and now, I would say the most obvious and immediate skills that people can take.

Yeah, that's such a cool tip. I just think about being on some, some dates and asking, how is this going? And it's scary and it's also exciting because then you can just have truth and notice and not have to create stories or wonder. Um, Ryle, thanks so much. This has been amazing. Uh, it's been really cool to learn more about your work and, um, I'm excited to finish the book and, uh, definitely gonna have to make it to one of these trainings. Yeah. Um, for anyone curious, uh, to learn more, What's the best place to follow you or Art or get the book?

Totally. Yeah. Here's the book for anyone who wants to check it out. So it's on Amazon. Go check it out on Amazon. Just search Authentic Relating. And then for our courses, you can go to authenticrelating.co. Tons of programs, offerings, courses, online, offline, couples, singles, people in the dating world, general public, business people. Professionals. And then my own website is rylecastano.com. And that's where I offer more information on the book, free sample chapters, free practices and exercises section, all my coaching offerings. That's all on my own website. Awesome.

Thanks so much, Ryle. Guys, I will link all of that in the show notes so you can check it out. And yeah, definitely follow up with Ryle and all that he's doing.

Right on. Thanks, Taylor. Pleasure to be here.

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