Filling in the gaps of growth and success with Dr. Tracy Gapin, MD

Hello, my friends, and welcome to Perfect Practice. Today, as always, we bring you another amazing guest today. I have Tracy gapin with me, Dr. Tracy Gapin, who's a medical doctor, he's a urologist, he's the CEO and founder of the Gapen Institute, which is a leader in precision medicine. He's here to share with us some of the trials and tribulations that he's gone through in, you know, becoming who he is today, setting up his practice the way it is, becoming a thought leader, an innovation leader, and somebody who I certainly look up to because he's overcome mental challenges, physical challenges, spiritual challenges to get to where he is today. And I want him to highlight some of those things in our conversation. I want him to share with his over 25 years of clinical experience what he has to offer. And I want him to share what it feels like when you're just starting out, and sometimes what it feels like when you feel like you're starting all over again. So without further ado, welcome, Tracy. Thanks for being here today.

Oh, Sachin, thanks so much, man. I'm honored to be with you. When you reached out asking if I'd be willing to jump on a call with you, I was like, of course, Sasha, of course I would. So, so honored to be with you.

Well, it's a pleasure and I always enjoy our conversations and this one, I'm sure will, will not disappoint. So thank you again for being here and thanks for taking time out of your busy calendar and schedule. Where I'd like to start is kind of maybe a question out of left field, which is what's a book that you're reading right now? I'm curious as to what's on your shelf.

I'm actually reading a book on cardiovascular health. It's funny you say that. It's the Truth About Cardiovascular Disease by John Houston. He speaks at a 4m and there's so much noise out there right now about cardiovascular health. And you go on Twitter and people are battling over the perfect diet, the perfect supplement, or what you should be doing. Statin. No statin versus this supplement. And so I'm all about the science. And so I happen to be reading. You know, I tend to read non fiction these days, but that's what I'm reading right now.

Yeah, it seems like a lot of health books can be fiction books too, right? You know, they're just fiction advance.

You're very right. Absolutely.

We just don't know their fiction until like sometimes 10 years later. So it's, it's good to stay on the cutting edge. It's, it's good to learn new things, good to sharpen the sword. I saw pictures of you at a 4M. What was your biggest takeaway from a 4M. What, what's a tip that we could offer somebody who's listening to this, who of course wants to run an amazing business but want to live longer as well?

Yeah, things are constantly changing. I think if there, if, if there's one takeaway, things are constantly changing and evolving. We're learning new things, we're learning new way, new perspectives. And I, I would encourage anyone who, especially just starting out, that, that it's easy to get stuck on the business side of being an entrepreneur and how do I start a business, Develop my offerings and my programs and all the tech involved in putting the piece together. But don't forget the science behind what we're doing and why we're a doctor, a nurse practitioner, whatever your background may be, don't forget why you're doing this and stay true to that and honor that. And so I go to a 4M twice a year. I go to other events. I've gone to AMMG on and off throughout the years as well. I go to seeds, World Congress for Peptides. I go to all these different conferences because there's constantly new things coming and growing and evolving and so just don't lose that. It's so easy to kind of push that aside, but I would really encourage the listener to stay focused on that.

Yeah, there's so much to learn and the science continues to evolve. And you know, it used to be that the best clinicians would have the busiest practices and now it seems like the best marketers have the busiest practices. And I think we're going back full circle again and it's going to be, we're coming back to the best clinicians are going to have the busiest practices. So, you know, referrals are, I'm sure, a big part of your practice and a big part of, you know, what I would consider everyone's practice should be because that's really the benchmark of how good of the work we do is and how meaningful and impactful it is. Of course you want to be great at marketing and not suggesting that you're not great at that, but to your point, be an excellent clinician first. Because at the end of the day, you know that that's what wins people over and that's what wins the game in the long run as well.

Yeah, yeah. You got to be able to provide the transformation, you know, whatever your niche may be, whatever your, your avatar, your client that you're working with, you need to be able to provide results and outcomes. And that comes from that scientific, that, that medical knowledge, the background. And so, yeah, don't, don't lose sight of that.

Awesome. Thank you. So you started off as a urologist and, and tell me how your career and vision for health has evolved since then.

Yeah, so I was in a very busy urology practice, five man group. I was in the hospital every day doing robotic surgery, treating kidney stones. I did a lot of prostate cancer work. My passion was always men's health. I loved specifically working with men. I have always been drawn to that, that area of urology. And so as my career evolved, I became very frustrated, disillusioned with urology to the point where I was actually almost considered not being a doctor anymore. I was that frustrated, unhappy. But I realized that I still had a lot to give and people to serve, but maybe if I could do it in a different way, if I could do it in a way that honored my needs and my desires and my career path while still serving people. And so I pivoted. And I pivoted in part from my own health issues. I talked about this in my book, I talk about this on podcasts that I won't go through the details again, but through health challenges of my own, I found this whole world of precision medicine, of epigenetics, of functional medicine, of, of hormone optimization and peptides and longevity, and this amazing new world that really changed my perspective on medicine and got me passionate about again. And I, I freaking light up now when I talk about this stuff. And it's fun. You, you asked me 10 years ago and I was miserable. I, I hated my practice. I hated my career. I was making great money. I mean, I was making almost seven figures as a urologist, doing great, but I just hated it. And so I reached a point where actually there's a song by the script that the listeners may resonate. It may resonate with the listeners. It's not right for you by the script. And the lyrics are something to the effect of if you don't love what you do, it's not right for you. That's the take home message of the whole song. And, and I just got driven that I had to make a change. I had to jump off this figurative cliff. And it was scary, you know, to, to, to throw away a very lucrative career in practice and, and start over was scary. But I almost felt like I had absolutely no Choice because I found something that I loved, something that I was passionate about again. And I didn't want to live the rest of my life being a miserable surgeon. And so it was a tough decision. My wife supported me th percent and I, I saved up some money, which is certainly important to do as you go through that transition, and I made the decision. And, and that was about, about eight years ago when I started going through certifications, going to, to courses, going to conferences, learning this new field and knowing nothing about it. When I first started this, I was like, what the hell is functional medicine? I don't know what that is. And, and now I, I have a, an appreciation for how to integrate all these different facets of, of medicine and health. And yeah, that's how it really all took off.

I love, I love one word that you said, which is you made a decision and you decided for you. Was that like you just knew right away or was there a gray zone where you're just kind of going back and forth? Tell me, tell me about that decision making process for you.

Yeah, it was, it was a gray zone. It was a gradual process. It was an evolution for sure. There was never one magic moment. Um, I, I knew about, gosh, maybe 10 years ago that I was not going to be a urologist the rest of my life. I knew that. I'm like, I'm, I'm not going to do this. I didn't know what the hell I was going to do instead. And I got some coaches, I went through some business development stuff and, and brainstorming and, and, and, and everything else was just kind of like another job, just replacing one job for another. And so I came back home to, to, to medicine and gradually I started thinking, well, could I do this? How could I do that? No, I can't do that. People aren't going to pay cash for what I do and I'm not anything special. I'm just a urologist, you know. And so you, you go through this battle in your mind, this, this imposter syndrome battle, day after day, month after month, year after year, until you finally are like, wait a second, I could do this. And, and took a long time to battle through that. So I think a lot of it was my own demons I was fighting with, to, to get through that.

Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny because you're obviously a trained specialist and you, you still have imp. Like in, in some ways struggle, we all do with imposter syndrome. And you know, I want people listening to this who, who may not feel or. Or technically even be as qualified as someone like yourself who go through challenges like that, who go through that self talk that could be somewhat self sabotaging or self deflating or self defeating. It's interesting because it. It just seems like it's. It's a theme you hear across the board. Anyone you talk to, if they're vulnerable enough to admit it, they go through that. That process. Do you. Can you attribute that. That way of thinking or those limiting beliefs or the imposter syndrome? Can you tie it back to something else, like a childhood experience or a time where you were told you're not enough? I'm cur. I'm always curious where. How our childhood plays a role in entrepreneurship. That's why. That's why. I beg the question 100%.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. I love this question. Sashan. Yeah, I had a crummy childhood. My dad left when I was five. My parents divorced, and I. I basically grew up with my mom. And then I didn't. Never really had a father figure. And. And I think that that may be a big reason why I'm so drawn to Men's health and why I'm so passionate about being a dad. You and I, before we. We started recording here, we're talking about our kids and Christmas and, And to me, that's every. That's my why.

And.

And everything I do is driven by that why.

And.

And I think a lot of that comes back to my childhood that I'm trying to fix. You know, the crummy childhood that I had. And so are there insecurities that develop from that? Yeah, I had, you know, I was. I was very insecure as a child. Growing up, I didn't have a lot of confidence. I was not the popular kid in school at all. I was always a smart kid, but not the popular kid. And so of course that plays into this. You know, whenever you're starting something new and you know, you look online, you see all this. All this shin marketing stuff and all these people are out there selling stuff and all these programs and all these glossy landing pages and video sales letters, you're like, holy cow, I can't do that. And I. I can't do this. I can't do that. Like, it. It's overwhelming at first. And so, yeah, it all comes into play for sure.

Yeah, it's. It's always hard to put ourselves out there, right. And we just never know. We. We kind of make up a story and it's usually worse when. Than what the Reality actually is. So thank you for sharing. Thanks for opening up. I appreciate that.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

So for, for a lot of people who are, you know, in the midst of starting their practices or maybe going through that, that messy first one to three years, what's some advice that you wish somebody had offered you when you were going through that phase of your business?

Yeah, good point. Or good, good question. I, I would say stay true to who you are, stay true to what you want. And I got to be part of a join a Vistage group for one night. This was a couple years ago and, and I was with 12 entrepreneurs who are actually my target audience. It was perfect that I got connected in this group. And one of them says, Tracy, what do you want? Like, what do you mean? I want to grow my bit. No, no. He's like, no, what do you want? And of course I was flustered and struggled to answer the question. And so I, I, I thought about that question a lot afterwards and I think about that question almost every day. I would ask someone who's just starting out, what do you really want? What, what is, you know, what does the end look like for you? What would be your ideal ending? And are you, is what you're doing? Are you aligned with that ending? And it's so easy to copy other people and God, you know, I'm gonna do a digital program. Oh yeah. All I gotta do is put some videos together now. I can sell a do it yourself program. I can sell to millions of people and sit, sit on the beach and just make money while, you know, no, no, no, I should just sell supplements. No, no, no, I should do this. And, and you get pulled in so many different directions because there's so many different business models out there. And I am my practice high ticket, low volume. And that's where we thrive. And the mistake that I made early on was to fall for those traps of, yeah, let me try to sell this, let me try to sell that, make a quick buck. Let me sell a bunch of a low ticket. It doesn't work. You have to stay true to who you are. And so it's the hard work of slowing down and really doing some introspection and understanding what is right for what you want.

You bring up such a great point, which is knowing what we want and reverse engineering from there. A lot of times we get, we get caught up in, okay, what's this person doing? And because they might have blitzy marketing and it might all sound really good, we just assume that they're making millions of dollars selling it. And you and I both know, being in, you know, behind closed doors, that that's often not the case. You know, for every person that really crushes it and has their. Has their ID idea or their course or whatever it is take off, there's like hundreds that don't. Right. I think the majority of people's courses don't make seven figures. Right. Don't result in those laptop lifestyles that people are desiring and. And a lot of times that can just be empty too. Right. So I think it's important to really know who we are, really know why we were put on this planet, what we want and how we want it. Right? You want a happy family, you want a healthy family, you want a loving relationship, right? You want a good team that's built around you. You want a notable practice. Right? Those are all the things that, you know, you're going after. So you've got to stay focused on what creates that because there's so many ways to help people. There are so many ways to productize what you do. As you said, supplements courses. You know, there's so many ways that we could put ourselves out there. But a lot of times it's a distraction and sometimes they sound like great ideas. However, they can take suck up so much of your time. I'll share an example. There's a few projects that I've been working on for the past six months, and to be honest, they were somebody else's idea for me instead of my idea for myself. And, you know, by the time these things come to fruition, you've put in, you know, dozens, if not almost a hundred hours into it, and now you might not even want to do it anymore because it was somebody else's idea for you instead of your idea for yourself. So, you know, you're kind of aligned to somebody else's path for you instead of your own path for yourself. So I really love that we gotta go. We gotta go inwards and really know what we want. And I love that you didn't just give that consideration once you're considering it on a daily basis and, you know, like piloting your life, because, you know, as. As you've probably heard this before, you know, a plane, it knows where it wants to end up, but 99% of the time it's off course and it's just constantly making little micro adjustments, but it's never changing the destination. It might change the trajectory, but it's never changing the destination. So thank you. I love, I love that. Great advice. Yeah.

The other two points to kind of tag on to that is, number one, what is the transformation that you provide? And does this thing that you're trying to offer or sell, does it solve that? So, you know, I work, you know, my focus is on. On male entrepreneurs, and it's all about energy and focus and cognitive function and. And body composition, weight loss and sexual health and longevity. And I wanted to create a digital program. When I. And I remember this when I came to mind share my first call with Carl when he was back in the day, he was like, well, what problem does that solve? And I will. But it's a course that shows him how to evil. He's like, no, but. But what's the transformation that you're providing like? Well, it gives him a bunch of information. He's like, is that gonna. Is that what they want or need? My. And I had to come face to face with no. So the question to ask yourself is, whatever you're making, does it truly solve the problem that you're trying to solve? And if not, then you can't create or build this thing that you're trying to build. And the second thing I got, and this is from JJ actually, she made the point. Don't build until you fly it. Build it while you're flying it. What I mean by that is when I started doing this, I was still in my urology practice and I was starting to run this program with my existing clients. I would offer it to my existing patients and get a few clients here and there and start doing it and learning from my mistakes, learning what works, what doesn't work, putting it all together so that when I actually opened my brick and mortar Gap Institute two years ago, I already had a book of business. I was already going. It wasn't like I was starting from. From ground zero and buying the eight ball. That applies to building a digital program as well. Record the first few while you're doing it. See if it works, see if people resonate with it. See if, you know, you have to make sure that you're not, like you said, spending six months wasting your time on something that may not ever work.

Yeah, that's great advice from two great individuals. Carl and JJ have, for me as well, been instrumental in making asking the right questions so that you can, by yourself, come to the right conclusion. Right. They're not even telling what you do to do. They're asking the right questions so that the answer comes from within. With that being said, I'd love for you to talk about mentorship and Hiring a coach. You mentioned a couple of coaches already and being in the right room with the right people and how that's played an instrumental role in your practice. Because I feel like including myself, I made this mistake. And I can't say if you have, I'll let you add some color there, but I felt like I always waited too long to hire a coach or to bring on a mentor who, who could, who could fast forward me. So people who are listening to this, they may not have a mentor, they may not have a community, they may not have a coach or a guide that's supporting them. At what point did you hire a coach or find somebody to support you? And what advice would you give to somebody who's sitting on the fence about it?

Yeah, I, I think coaching is so underappreciated and, and I think it's important to, to recognize how critical it is. And so I started with coaching when I was going through my, my career transition. I had a, like a business mentor coach then to get some perspective. And then I was in two masterminds before Mind Share. Each of those were good in their own right, but not quite what I needed. M share was great. For three years, I, I learned a ton from that group. I think the coaching is really the, the, the community was amazing. The people I met were incredible. It was the one on one coaching sessions to me, which is where the money was. I remember one call with you. I still remember this. You may, you may have forgotten. This is probably like three or four or five years, maybe about three and a half years ago now. You told me something that I still think about. And I told someone just last week, I told this to, to my team. And you said, keep it simple. You said, keep it simple. And I was trying to add all this to my program and I could do this and that. Well, yeah, you can do it, but sometimes simpler is better. And so you know, things like that where you lose the force for the trees until you have your coach to help kind of guide you like that. And so I have several. I have three coaches right now. I still. And they each provide different aspects to my business. Whether it's about the more the clinical program or the business side of it, you got to have a coach. You know, I mean, Michael Jordan had a coach, LeBron, Tiger Woods, Rory, and you know, even the best athletes in the world, everyone has a coach. And so you need that guidance and support.

I love that. You know, there's a. I say this often to the people that I coach, and that is Never hire a coach who doesn't have a coach. So you know the value. If we believe in the value of being led. Right. Of course it's great to be a leader and lead people, but leaders also need leadership as well. Then it's, it's a, it's a great way for us to emphasize how important it is. Right. Like I have several coaches myself because I have, we all have blind spots, we all have opportunities that are under leveraged or capabilities that we take for granted. And it takes a coach sometimes to spot those and then ensure that we develop those things. And sometimes coaches are like, you know, bumper guards. Right. They keep us in our lane so we're not jumping from one lane to the next and preventing that shiny object syndrome. If you're anything like me, you have at least a minor case of ADD and you're easily distracted. I know a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, are like that. Right. We just like, oh, there's a squirrel. Okay, I'm going to go do that. But having, having the right people in your corner can kind of keep you on track. And sometimes that right person isn't a coach. It could also be our spouse. And you mentioned you have a very supportive spouse. So I'd love for you to perhaps highlight how that's been influential in your business journey as well.

Yeah, you're spot on there. My wife has been instrumental for me when it comes to even things like hiring. Like we will often have the, have my wife come by the office when there's a new employee and she'll meet them and talk to them. So hey, how you doing? You know, chat and she'll come back to me later. No, they're no good and sure enough, a week later they're gone. Or, or we've had dinner with hiring. We. I have three mid level providers working for me and for that hire, we do a dinner first where we can really get to know them. And my wife is, they know wives know more than we do. Don't, don't record this, of course for them to hear. But yeah, wives no more. And so yeah, it's, it's incredibly helpful to have a spouse there to bounce things off of. Even business ideas. Things like example. Like we were looking at adding a hyperbarics chamber to our center. We look at adding facial laser rejuvenation stuff or adding PEMF or a red light chair or all these fun, you know, the biohacking toys that you can put in the center or a cool sculpting machine for weight loss. All these Toys that we can buy. And then you have the voice of reason. Your wife. Well, I thought you were high ticket, low volume. So don't those require a lot of volume? Well, yeah. Well, does that go with your. You know. And my coach was similarly saying this, but like, no, no, I really got. Dude. My wife was like, well, but your coach is right. I'm like, yeah, you're right. So it. A lot of stuff like that where you just bounce stuff off, bounce ideas off of people and their sounding boards and they are the voice of reason and logic when sometimes you get excited by shiny objects.

Well, the coach and me can't help but mention this. It might be good for you to become affiliate partners if you're not already with these brands and companies and people can have these things installed into their home.

Yeah.

Because I know that there's a huge movement. Like people like you and me probably have a lot of biohacking tools, red light therapy, saunas, cold plunges, things like that in our homes or on our wish list at least. And the average person now has access to these things. I know several people, especially from Genius Network, for example, are going to have, like, they're that driven entrepreneur, tell me what to buy and I'll buy it. And they've got all this. They've got a whole studio set up in their home with all the tools and gadgets that would normally have been in a clinic like, like yours. So, yeah, I, I think that that could be a great offering for people. Like, almost like a catalog of, hey, here's like, here's how you outfit your place. And I don't know if you've ever done this. Maybe it's appropriate, like a tour, like a video tour of how your home is outfitted so that people can then, you know, kind of do the same thing with their house.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, I actually did. I think you'll find this beneficial as well and maybe a good idea for you to think about. I did something called A Hundred Ways to Win the Day. And I essentially relive my entire day and I wrote down all the things that I do that I probably take for granted at this point. And I documented them and it was like, ended up being like 108 things that I do. And. And that document became like the. Almost like the Colonel's Secret Recipe. So I'd be curious as to what the gap in secret recipe is.

Yeah.

And that would be a cool, like, you know, gift for your clients. It's like, hey, here's, here's, here's what I do. Right? Here's somebody who knows all this information is applying this information. Here's it. Here's my personal cheat sheet. And when they go through that and be like, I want that, I want that, I want that. Because your clients want exactly what you have, right? And they want health, they want vibrancy, they want to be in the know, and they want what? They want to know what the doctor's eating. They want to know what the doctor is doing. They want to know what, what. What's the doctor's house like? Because, you know, I can do these things for myself and my family as well.

Great idea.

Thank you.

Right there. There we go.

So tell me about your TEDx talk. What was the preparation for that? Like, what was. Yeah, what did it feel like being up on the stage there? I know a lot of people listening to this have aspirations to be a great speaker, and I believe that's public speaking and communication are the highest capabilities that we can develop for our business, to grow it. So tell me about that. What was the training for that? Like, what was the preparation for that? Like, how do you feel like it went? And what advice would you offer somebody who might be interested in doing more public speaking?

Yeah, great question. Funny you mentioned I had a coach. So I had a coach specifically for my TED Talk. And the coach who I hired was specifically to help me, number one, land the talk. And to land the talk, that means you have to do an application, a very lengthy application. As you know, we had to come up with ideas and how to frame it the right way to make it interesting and unique and different while still, you know, appropriate. Men's health can go in a lot of different ways potentially. And so then we had to do the actual applications. And then once I finally got accepted, then preparation of scripting it and then practicing it and refining it and all the nerves that go into the day before and the day of the event, it was a lot. And. And my coach was there with me through it all. And so it's a. It's a long process. It was probably nine months from when I started the application process until I gave my talk. And a lot of that time is spent waiting. You put out a bunch of applications and you wait to get a response back. And I was fortunate to get one of my first kind of round of applications. And it was. It was an amazing experience. It was. It was empowering to. To feel like I finally got to get up there and have a voice and share my perspective. And I know that it'll be there forever now. And that's, you know, something that I could always, always hang my hat on and call myself a TEDx speaker. So it gives some credibility. Obviously. I. It's funny, Sachin. I used to hate speaking. Like, when I was younger, I hated getting up in front of public, hated to speak. Now I love it. And my position on that kind of shifted when someone helped me realize that if you have information or wisdom that could help someone else, you are actually selfish. If you don't share that with the world, you're selfish and twisted. It puts in a different perspective. Well, I gotta go speak. I gotta go share my message now. I have to. Otherwise I'm being selfish. And so just positioning that in your mind a little different. I, I love speaking now. I love getting up in front of groups and sharing my message. And so TED Talk was a great way to do that.

Awesome. Yeah, it's definitely an amazing accomplishment. So congratulations on that. And I know there's a lot of, lot that goes into the thoughtfulness of the application. Of course, getting up on that stage and really nailing the talk is super huge. And also using that as a springboard to get your message out to more people is also fantastic. You also wrote a book, male 2.0. So tell me what, tell me what the definition of male 2.0 is for our listeners. What does that mean to you?

Yeah, so I actually wrote that book. I was still in my urology practice at the time. That was what, about three years ago or so when that came out? And male 2.0 was. The concept of male 1.0 is where we are now. And that is men are very reactive. Men wait until there's a problem, you know, if any broke, don't fix it kind of mentality. And when we do have a problem, when we finally go see a doctor, it's give me some testosterone, give me the blue pill, and give me the hell out of here. And that's all I need. So it's very focused on just a single, you know, pharmaceutical type of treatment. And it is passive. It is, it's reactive. Whereas male 2.0 is new generation. We are proactive. We are not waiting for a disease to set in. We are focused on prevention. A lot easier to deal with problems if you cannot have them in the first place. It is focused on how am I different than the guy next to me and how does that affect what I should be doing? And so instead of relying on Twitter for your health advice, focus on what does my genetic panel show, what Are my functional tests show what are my lab. Show what are my GI map. Show what you know, what are the, what are the team. What are the key markers? Show me to help me understand what I should do that's right for me. And so it's very personalized, it's very data driven. It's using the, the tools that we have around us now, wearable technology. We could track heart rate variability, which is a great surrogate for stress as obviously, um, we could track blood sugar now with CGM continued glucose monitoring. We could track sleep obviously. We could track our nutritional intake and obviously steps in fitness. We have all these tools around us that we can actually use this data to know if what we're doing is working or not. And the key is putting all those pieces together. And, and that's what male 2.0 is really all about, is by taking men's health in a completely new direction than we've ever been before.

I love it. You also had a book, the Codes of Longevity.

Yes, I was a co author in that book and that was fun. That was a project with Dr. Melissa Peterson and my chapter was, it was all about aging. And so Codes of Longevity we had each author had to give our perspective on what are the secrets to longevity, what are the things we need to focus on. And so, so that was a fun book as it was really a chapter of that book more than the whole book itself. But that was a fun one as well. Really more focused on longevity.

So, so tell me what, what are some three takeaways for longevity? I'm curious for myself.

Yeah, so, and gosh, that book was written so long ago, I can't remember what my three were. And I'm sure they probably changed from then. And there you go. That's how science changes a lot of it. You have to look at cellular efficiency. So we know some of the things that, that can help with longevity. You know, fasting. We know that one of the, one of the clear movers for lifespan is fasting. And animal studies show without question that that's the, the most powerful way that we can extend lifespan. And so I'm a big believer in time restricted eating or fasting. That means for the listener, you know, 16, 18 hours minimum fast fasting window. And I recommend, you know, typically guys, when they first start, when clients first start working me just do it once, just do it once a week to start. And then we may go to twice a week and three times a week and um, never is it meant to be done every day of the Week, but perhaps as many as three to five days a week if you can. I like one 24 hour fast per week. And it's actually kind of easy once you get used to it. It's, it's, it's first, it's a mind game. After a while you realize it's actually pretty easy. Very, very powerful. It helps sharpen your mind, your cognitive focus. It's incredible. And so fasting is really a big one. We can look at things like blood sugar regulation. You know, we know that, that blood sugar regulation is really critically associated with longevity. And so how do you regulate blood sugar? First of all, you got to track it, you got to know what's affecting it. It may be the food that you're eating, it may be stress, psychological stress. It may be poor sleep. One of the biggest drivers of cortisol, or stress hormone that drives up blood sugar is poor sleep. And so guys, guys are notorious for saying, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. So the men I work with tend to, tend to not be believers until you track their sleep and see that they're getting, you know, 12 minutes of deep sleep when they should be getting an hour of deep sleep. And that's affecting cortisol and downstream effect on blood sugar. So, so managing blood sugar is really a big deal. Oxidative stress. So, you know, our mitochondria, obviously the powerhouse of the cell and cellular efficiency, producing ATP, you have the electron transport chain we learned about back in medical school. Oxidative stress slows all that down. Basically, free radicals overcome your body's antioxidant system. So how can you improve that? How can you improve, you know, glutathione function and productivity and performance? And so looking at ways of improving oxidative stress, a lot of fun stuff around longevity session. And, and it's always changing and evolving and yeah, it's putting all those pieces together.

Yeah, well, you know, the things you talked about are foundational. I, I, I don't think that those are going to be, you know, out of date or out of style anytime soon. I think if it, if anything, it reminds us to what you said earlier. Just going back to simplicity, going back to the basics. Right. People want complicated diets, but the most effective thing to do is to actually eat less or sometimes not eat at all. And you know, going back to oxidative stress, I mean, you know, getting oxygen to the mitochondria is a function of something as simple as breathing and of course going back to cellular efficiency. So a lot of things that you're talking about are timeless principles of health. And it's great to see that now we have the evidence, all the scientific validation to show that, hey, these simple things actually make a huge difference. And I love when you talked about male 2.0, how you contrasted the 1.0 versus the 2.0. And I think it's really important for us mentioned to be more, you know, proactive when it comes to our health and you know, not wait for something to happen and then do something about it. Inevitably something's going to happen.

Right.

On a long enough timeline, something is going to happen. But what I know, and I know what you know is that the, the better we can take care of ourselves. We're better equipped to handle whatever comes our way.

Exactly. That's right.

So tell me, tell me what's. What's on the horizon for you and your business? What's got you excited? What's got you amped up for 2024? I'd love to hear more about that.

Yeah. So the business has grown tremendously. We had a great 2023 and as we look to 2024, our plan and this goes back to. We'll come full circle here in a moment. My plan for next year was to open a couple new centers, a couple new locations because we're doing so well and I have a couple partnerships that were put in place. I'm looking opening another corporate owned location. We're in Sarasota, Florida. Although we do a lot of telehealth with men around the country, we still do well with a brick and mortar. And so we looked at opening another one potentially Naples, Florida, about two hours south of us, have a partnership out in Arizona as well, that's in Scottsdale area that's growing as well. Back to the trials and tribulations question that you asked in the beginning. The two of those partnerships I have already terminated before they ever took off the ground and learning process. As I now go to more of a scale phase of my business and look at how do I grow and you know, it could be a licensing model or franchise model or you know, multiple location model. We looked at possibly doing partnerships and come to find out I'm not very good at identifying a perfect partner for another location. And so this comes back to how you're constantly learning and growing and evolving. And you know, kudos to my coach for helping me through that process as well because there's always something new. And so 2024 is going to be a year of expansion for us. While I still really Solidify home base and stay true to who I am and stay true to what my values are and make sure that anyone I'm partnered with aligns with those values.

Yeah, so, so important, right? Knowing first who we are and then identifying who are the. Who are the people that can help us get this business to where we want to go. And not everyone's cut out to be a partner with you. Right. Not everyone has that deserve level to work with you. And acknowledging what you bring to the table, I think is hugely important. You know, there's something I did recently, and I actually shared this in my mentorship community that might be beneficial for you. I'm happy to share her information. Her name's Robin McKay and she's a therapist. And what she does is she actually reads something called the Neo Personality Test. So it's the most clinically validated personality test there is, and she reads it through the lens of entrepreneurship. So she helps you identify how your personality is and what's unique to you, but then also helps you create your business around that personality, create your partnerships and team around that personality, even create your messaging around your personality. So one of the things I discovered about myself is that my. There's a score for something called neuroticism. And neuroticism is how anxious you are. And so my neuroticism is two standard deviations below normal, which means I tend to be very calm. And so I'm like, you know, if I was water, I'd be like that still pond. And the unfortunate thing is, if you're not aware of this, is that stillness is actually attracted. Chaos is attracted to stillness. And so there was a point in my business where I was attracting people who just had a lot going on in their lives. And I always, you know, believe that like attracts like. We've all heard that, right? You're going to attract people just like you. But that doesn't stand true when you have. When you're one or two standard deviations away from normal, because what is then attracted to you is the opposite of who you are and your personality traits. So, you know, that'd be interesting for you to go through something like that, because I think it's probably at the right time, if you haven't done something like this, for you to really get a deep understanding of your personality and understand how the dynamics of different relationships, especially partnerships and things like that, may come into play, and it might be something worthwhile if you do feel like you've found a suitable partner or partners and to get them Tested as well, so that you know how to build the team around them as well. Because sometimes you could have two people that are passionate about the same thing, but the way they operate could be very different. Right. Just like our diets need to be different, sometimes the support system for each person needs to be different based on their individual personality as well. So, yeah, I love. It's hard for me to shut that part of my brain off, so I thought I'd share that with you and happy to share the details.

Yeah, I'll check that out.

Awesome. So I'd love for you to leave us with a couple of things. One is, you know what, what's some good advice that you'd like to offer people? So give me one piece of good advice that you'd like to offer, and I'd also love for you to share, you know what. What it. What it is. Maybe you'll do this first. So the first thing I want you to offer is what's some bad advice that you got? And then the second thing I want you to offer is what's some good advice that you'd like to leave people with.

That advice? Yeah, I think it would be when people tell you you need to not. Not your coach, when this is other people, colleagues, you should do this, you should do that, you should try to sell this product, sell this item, or do something that maybe doesn't align with your business model, and it comes back to who's your avatar, what's the problem you're trying to solve? And is what I'm about to do align with that? And I can't at the moment. It's a tough question, give you specific examples of that, but I would always use that as a measuring stick of when you want to do something new in your business. How does it fit with what my client's looking for? It's easy to think of what we want, what's best for Tracy Gap and what's best for Gaping Institute, but what's best for the client as well.

And.

And sometimes it's easy to get lost with that.

Yeah, you know, I'll. I'll. I'll piggyback off of that and. And share this. So there was a. There was somebody who posted in a. In a community, and she said that I want to do this, this, this, and this. I want to build an online program. I want to just sell it once and then just evergreen it, and I never want to touch it again like that. That was, like, her motivation to do it. And I'm like, how would Your clients feel if they read this message, like, how are the people buying this program? You know, if they could, you know, I believe in full transparency. So if. If people could transparently they see this message that you're putting out there in this closed group, how would they feel about it?

Yeah.

And this person came and thank. I called them out on it because I actually posted that. And they came, they saw me like two years later, and they thanked me for that message. Because when they sat down and thought about it, it was like, you know, I'm doing this not because I want to do it. It's not even what I want to do. I'm doing it because it's something I think I should be doing and I'm capable of doing. I think we're all capable of putting a mini course or even a big time course together. But is that actually solving the client's problem?

Right.

It was solving a problem for her. She just had to build it once, sell it, and then not think about it and evergreen it and run ads to it. But is that actually what the client wants? And I, you know, to your point that you said earlier, I don't think anyone's looking for, you know, another course. I don't think anyone's looking for more information. What people are looking for is coaching. They're looking for accountability. They're looking for community and surrounding themselves with the right, right kind of people. And that's missing this day and age. And I think if Covid taught us anything, it's that, that we got to find our people and find the people that we can really connect and resonate with. So great advice, right? Stay in your lane. Keep your blinders on. Don't get distracted by what other people are doing, and don't let other people should all over you. Right? As Tony Robbins says, you know, we should all over ourselves. We should do this, we should do that. But what. What's worse is letting other people tell us what we should be doing because they may not know what that vision that we have is. Right. You know, people in your inner circle might, but somebody who's like one or two degrees of separation from you, they may not have any idea, you know, what your master plan and vision is for yourself. All right, so give me, give me one, one piece of great advice that you'd like to leave people with.

God, I can think of so many of them. You know, do one thing at a time, just one, you know, focus on your avatar. How are you different? How do you. How do you differentiate yourself from Others and being able to articulate that I think would be really valuable. But I, I think that the biggest one is have a very clear sales process, sales funnel. And this was tough for me to learn for years of how do I, like, what do you mean? Like, how does that work? I thought you just put up a sales page and people just buy from you. Well, no, you have to nurture them and, and where are they in the process? So think about is your client even aware they have a problem? And if you're trying to sell your program, they don't even know that there's a problem, then you're wasting your time. And so understanding, are they problem unaware? Are they problem aware but don't even know the solutions? Are they aware of solutions? And then are they aware of your solution? And if you think of it in that process, you need to kind of meet them where they are. And so we, when, when we put out content, whether it's social, whether it's blogs, whether it's podcasts, and if, and if the listener goes and finds me, I do a ton of podcast interviews. And I always, at the end, I'll do the same thing. I'll give away and I'll have your listeners hear this and just go through the process. Not that I'm trying to sell you anything, but you can see what it looks like. I say just text the word health to 26786. Okay, text Worth Health to 2076. And I'm going to send you a free copy of my High Performance Health Handbook. And it's going to have 15 strategies and tactics that you can use today to learn how you can have more energy, have better focus, lose weight, have better sex, and live longer. Just download the High Performance Health Handbook by texting the word Health to 26786. And as a bonus, I'm also going to give you a free digital copy of my best selling bookmail 2.0 as well. So I do that. So now what I've done is I've now given them something. Giving away information. People are, people aren't going to buy information in this day and age. You got to give it away. I'm giving away information for free. And I'm now going to nurture you. And if you sign up, you'll see it. You'll see that you're going to get an email every other day for I think eight days. Four, four emails over eight days. And it's going to be information. It's just content, it's providing value. So that they're now more aware and now they're going to look at other content that I have out there and then gradually, hopefully they will engage with my team and want to work with us then. And so that took me, Sachin, it sounds so stupid and simple, but took me forever to learn that you have to meet them where they are and follow that process. So, so have your, you know, it's called a lead magnet. Have whatever lead magnet you want. Do it through whatever. You know, you can have an opt in on your, on your, on your web page. You can do it like a text opt in like that, whatever you want to do, but have some sort of opt in where you're giving away information so that you can then nurture them along with more content. And that's how you're going to eventually get clients.

Amazing. So it's 26786. That's right.

Text the word health, H, E, A, L, T H to the number 26786.

All right, I'm in.

There you go.

Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Having, having a lead magnet some way, somehow, some way to capture people's information is so important and very, very often overlooked. And I know some people, I know JJ talks about this. When she was on national television, she had no way of collecting people's contact information and reaching back out to them. So having something that is like your signature lead magnet or download something that just ri. You know, you just rhyme it off. Because I can tell you've probably said it a hundred times and we'll say it thousands more. That's super crucial and that's super important. And I feel like a lot of times people are missing that, especially early on because that early on lead building list building is vital to our business because sometimes it might take somebody a few years to actually take action. And so we could be missing out on years of developing a relationship with somebody because we didn't collect their contact information early on in the relationship.

Yeah.

Amazing.

I'll give one more satchel because it just struck me as another one I should.

Sure.

And several different people have told me this throughout the years. Raise your prices. Whatever your prices are, raise your prices. Because we tend to undervalue what we're providing, the service and the value that we're providing. And people who pay more are more invested and willing to commit more to that outcome. And it takes the same time, effort and money for you to acquire that client, whether they pay 1x or 10x. And so why not have them pay 10x and so one of the most valuable piece of information, advice I was given was raise your prices. And when I did, guess what happened? Nothing. The conversion rate stayed the same.

Yeah. You know, it's funny because sometimes people will be stuck at like a 1500 price point and I'll tell them to go up to 200 and they might hear 20,000 in their head, right? Because of where their money mindset is. And I'm like, listen, the person that's paying 1500 will pay 2000 and the person that's paying 15,000 will pay 20,000. Because to them what they're buying is worth a million. So once we understand that, we solve a problem for somebody that the value of what they're receiving as a result of this is far more valuable than what they're paying us. Certainly there's going to be, you know, here's, here's one lesson I learned, and maybe you can echo this or, you know, speak to it, is that no matter what you charge, there's people that will think it's too much. And there's people, there's people that will think it's too little. So let's, let's go after the people that think it's too little, that are happy to write that check because they see the value in what we have to offer. And a simple example is a car, right? You show somebody a car and like, if you showed my dad a 9 11, he'd be like, this is crazy, right? Like, why would people spend this much money on this car? But if you show an enthusiast that car and the price tag, they're like, how can they offer this for so cheap? I mean, it's still an expensive car as far as cars are concerned. But when you think about the heritage, the engineering, all the things that go into making that car what it is, it's like, man, this is a great deal. So, you know, one of the things that has, if, if anything has taught us over these last three years, I mean, a lot of lessons have been learned, but luxury brands have flourished.

Yeah, that's right.

Like at one point you can Porsches have like a two year wait list and you're like, how is there a two year wait list on a quarter million dollar car? And it's because people buy things based on what they value. And so find the people that value health who are, you know, in a position to invest in themselves and charge what's fair, right? I think you're charging beyond what's you're charging what's fair, right. You're Delivering value beyond what you're charging. And people who see the value are going to jump right in.

Yeah, yeah. You're not holding the checkbook. They are. So you got. You can't use, you know, your. Whatever your money mindset is. You can't let that affect you. The other thing that's important is not try to justify your pricing with. You're getting this, this, this, this. Like. Like you're selling a car, you're selling an outcome, you're selling a transformation. And what is that worth to you? What is it worth to be able to have the energy to play with your kids again? What's it worth to be able to play golf again? What's it worth to be able to have sex with. I had a guy last week, he would pay anything to be able to have sex with his wife. Like, how do you put a price on that? And so I think it's important to come at it from. What's the transformation you're providing and what's that worth to the client?

I love it. I love it, man. I could talk to you for hours. This conversation has been long overdue. Thank you, my friend, for such valuable insights. Thank you for your humility, your vulnerability, your authenticity, and your leadership. It's much admired. And here's to amazing success in the year and the years to come.

I appreciate you.

Thanks so much. Thanks, brother. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

You're as well.

Thank you.