From ER Medicine to Lifestyle Wellness: Insights into the challenges & triumphs of entrepreneurship

Hello, my friends, and welcome to Perfect Practice Today with me. I have none other than Cynthia Thurlow. Cynthia and I actually known each other for many years. And if you're in the online space, if you're in the functional medicine world, then you certainly recognize her name. She's been on TED twice, and she's done some amazing talks which have millions upon millions of views, and she's created a revolution around intermittent fasting. And, of course, when we see people online and we see their stories and we see them podcasting like Cynthia does, we don't always get to understand what their chapter one look like. So today we're going to go to the. The pre log, and then we're going to go through the chapters of Cynthia's journey so that those of you who are listening to this in need of some inspiration, in need of some guidance, in need of some, you know, podcasting mentorship, if you will. Because we all know how valuable people's stories are. And this podcast, I hope, is valuable in shedding light on Cynthia's story and helping all of you understand what it takes to win, what it takes to succeed, the perseverance that you have to have, and everything that goes along with what most of us see as, you know, people's chapter 20. And I know that you've got another 20 chapters in you, if not more than that. So without further ado, thank you, Cynthia. Thank you for joining me today.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to our discussion.

Yeah, me too. You know, thank you for hosting me on your podcast in the past. You're such a great podcast host, and I know that's been an evolution in your journey to help more people learn about, you know, wellness and intermittent fasting and other protocols. I love that you're bringing that to the world. And you've interviewed some amazing guests, some of my favorite people on the planet, and you do such a great job. So thank you for the work that you're doing. And I also want to let people know how we met. We actually met. I believe, unless my recollection is inaccurate, we met through mindshare. And so shout outs to JJ and Carl and all the people at Mind Share for bringing amazing people together and collaborative people together, which is what I love about that community. And, you know, it's been wonderful to see your journey, like, not only highlighted in the Mindshare community, but also following you online. I love the work that you're up to these days, and you've made such a substantial impact in people's lives. So let's start with, you know, what drives you? I'm curious as to what. What is that fire that burns inside of you every morning when you wake up to do the work that you do?

Such a great question. I think on a lot of different levels, a great deal of why I do what I do is wanting to help. In particular, women understand that navigating the second half of their lives does not have to be fraught with poor quality sleep, weight loss resistance and gaslighting by well meaning healthcare providers. And so, you know, I kind of started my journey first in ER medicine, then cardiology as a nurse practitioner. And I just got to a point where I was no longer inspired to get up in the morning and write 20 or 30 prescriptions. I felt so much of what I was seeing, both in clinical cardiology and also the hospital, were lifestyle mediated issues. And so much of what we do in traditional allopathic medicine is focused on urgencies, emergencies, and there's clearly a place for it. But where I think we fall short is in prevention and frankly chronic disease management. And I no longer felt aligned with writing prescriptions for lifestyle related issues. So in. It's hard to believe this almost eight years ago, but in April of 2016, I said to my husband, I can't write another prescription. And although I had no business training, I had at that point only done a little bit of functional training. I took this massive leap of faith and left traditional clinical medicine and didn't have a safety net. I just leaped and said, I know I will be successful. And that could either be just blind faith, that could be craziness. But I assured my husband that I knew that I would be successful, that I felt that there was absolutely positively a need for providing support in different ways. And this is really before I saw a lot of lifestyle as medicine as an area of focus. And so I initially, almost immediately had women coming to me who felt like they were misunderstood. They, you know, they had providers that had 10 or 15 minutes to talk to them about a multiplicity of concerns that wasn't happening. Women that were being put on antidepressants instead of maybe checking hormones and looking maybe they needed some oral progesterone during part of their cycle is one example. And so for me, I started creating programs initially in response to consistent symptoms and concerns that women had. And so I created my very first program in 2016, which then led to one on one work. And at that time, nurse practitioners in my state were not autonomous. So I knew what Lane I needed to be in because I wasn't writing prescriptions in that environment. It was lifestyle as medicine. And my colleagues were totally happy referring people to me because they're like, I don't have time to talk about sleep or nutrition or exercise. I'll let you do that, and I'll do my thing.

And.

And so that was how it initially evolved, and it was incredibly gratifying, but I still felt like there was something that was lacking. And in 2018, I said to my husband, I feel like I want to challenge myself, that I'm an introvert. Yes. I'm starting to see, you know, the wheel is moving. I'm making money. This is great. I'm making more money than I was before. But I felt like I wanted another challenge, a safe challenge. And so I said, I think I want to do a TED Talk. And my husband was like, what? And I said, this is a safe challenge, so I'm going to do this TED Talk. And I said, I think again, we go back to themes of things that women feel like their voices are not being amplified about the changes that are going on in perimenopause and menopause. And so that's what the first talk was about. And then I did a second, which, of course, this is the one that many people are aware of. I had no idea at that time that that talk was going to go viral. And it really. Not only did it validate to my family that the message and the work was so needed, but it also, in my husband's mindset, kind of justified that that leap of faith really became a genuine business. And I would be the first person to tell anyone that when you are a new entrepreneur, especially if you are in your zone of genius in your area of medicine, it is terrifying, it is scary, it is stressful to leave in an environment where you are an employee, in many instances where you are the employer, where you have a guaranteed income to going to having the complete opposite. But yet, my kind of prevailing philosophy in my life is, through great risk comes great reward. And so for me, taking that leap of faith has made all the difference in my life. And I fervently will tell people I was meant to be married to my husband and have my boys. But in terms of occupationally, the work I'm doing now is able to impact more people. And that's what it's always been about, being able to impact more people than being in an office or the hospital where I was seeing 16 or 20 patients a day. Now that message gets to be amplified. And it also serves as a reminder to so many of us that we are capable of so much more than we even realize. And so on so many levels, when I'm talking to people, you know, even people that are younger chronologically or even within their entrepreneurial journey, it's helping them understand. Like, some of what you do is. Is a. Is a leap of faith, but many of it is understanding. Like, you have a message that is worth amplifying. And once you really stay in alignment with that concept, I think that allows you to continue to propel forward. Because even now, eight years in, I have days where I doubt myself. I'm like, what am I doing? Why did I make that decision? And then, like, two days later, I'll have an amazing realization. Well, this is why these three things happened, to spurn me forward so that I continue sharing this message to. So I think for anyone, irrespective of where you are in this journey as an entrepreneur, it's understanding that things take time. They don't happen overnight. A lot of what you see on social media, as one example, is the highlights. It's not showing you the tough part. It's not showing you that, you know, you're no longer working 40 hours a week. You might be working 60, 80 hours a week as an entrepreneur. So I think that, you know, the comparisonitis that we're so, as human beings is so much the norm. I always say, just put your blinders on and stay focused on your vision, your impact, the people that, you know, you have the ability to reach and inspire.

I love that. It's so inspiring to know that I'm not the only one that goes through that. You know, I had a call with one of my coaching clients today, and everything that she was scared of was stuff that I was experiencing as proximal as yesterday or even that even this morning, you know, questioning myself, like, why am I doing this? Like, you know, why did I do it this way? What would. What if, you know, we ask ourselves that question all the time, and I think it's part of the human syndrome, but you just have to have that belief and that faith and be able to cast a bigger, brighter future. And if you can hold that vision and step into it, just realizing, hey, some days you're going to step into beautiful grass, and some days you're going to step into mud. But you just keep moving forward, and as you go, you start learning and you start developing the skills and the capabilities and acquiring the equipment. Like, you know, it's one thing if you're hiking with running shoes, and it's another thing if you're hiking with hiking shoes. So equipping yourself with the right tools as time goes on, as you learn, is such a huge thing. You know, one thing you said very early on is that you just had enough, like you didn't want to prescribe anymore. And I'm sure so many other people are in that same boat, but don't take that step. They don't, they're just not disgusted enough with their situation. Or maybe they don't know what that next move is. Describe to me maybe the night before you gave your resignation, like what was going through your head and, and what, what was that experience like? Because I'm sure it wasn't easy. Maybe you were sure you needed to do what you needed to do. But you know, walk us through that, you know, what the thought process was and some of the, you know, conversations you were having with yourself before making that decision.

You know, it's interesting. I, I now let me just loop this one concept in. If you're familiarized with human design theory, I'm a manifesting generator.

Hey, same here.

And so for me, I understand when I have made big decisions in my life, I lean into what feels intrinsically right at a very, very visceral level. And so I had been feeling for several months very disconnected, but I went to work. Let me be clear, I went to work, I did my evidence based practice, I did not compromise patient care. But I had this nagging feeling in my stomach every day I went to work. I was like, I don't enjoy this, I'm not in alignment, I'm not happy doing this job. And yet I love my patients. I love being a nurse practitioner, I love my job, minus all these other aspects that I cannot change. And so I recall that I was in a position where my husband was doing a lot of business travel. My boys at that time, you know, they were eight years younger, so they were still in elementary school. And I just remember being so tired, so mentally tired of having to psych myself out because I am very much a suck it up person. Like, don't complain, push through it. That's how my parents raised me. Don't be a complainer, just do it. And I kept saying I couldn't even muster the gumption to just continue pushing through it, that my body was viscerally telling me that I had to make a decision. And so I remember feeling physically exhausted and I woke up in the morning and as soon as my feet hit the floor. Today is the day. And my husband thought I'd lost my mind. He was like, what? What do you mean? But you don't have another job. I mean, what are you talking about? You're getting paid good money. How can you do this? He's very fiscally conservative, but also very supportive. And I remember I was fearful to tell my employer, but once I did, it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. And I spent the next six weeks mourning this decision because I really loved the people I worked with. I loved my patients, but I didn't love the environment I worked in. And it wasn't. I mean, my employer went back to me and tried to. They were like, we're willing to work around any schedule you want. We want you to be happy. And I said, that's not what it's about. I'm no longer growing intellectually. And for me, I now acknowledge how important learning is to me. And I felt like I was stifled. I was stifled intellectually. I felt like I was no longer in alignment with this model of looking at symptoms and treating symptoms with prescriptions. And I just felt like there was more that I could do if I started to focus in on lifestyle and helping people understand. As an example, like, if your sleep quality is poor and if you're eating ultra processed foods and you don't move your body, and if you have toxic interpersonal relationships and you have no spiritual practice, and I'm not saying it has to be religious, but no connection to something as a higher purpose that you are not going to be healthy. And so I just recall my very last day of work. I think I did a lot of crying, not in a, in a negative way. I think it was cathartic. It was, oh my gosh, I can't believe I actually went through this. And I remember colleagues telling me they thought I had lost my mind. They're like, oh, you've had a midlife crisis. Like, that's absolutely what this is. In fact, my parents told me I was having a midlife crisis. And I kept saying, no, I don't think so, because I put so much thought into this. And I have a clear vision of where I see my, my business going, but I can't do it in the context of continuing to work in this environment. I felt like it was unfair to my employer and the other colleagues I was working with. And so I just recall that it was very much a visceral decision. Now I understand myself better to know that's exactly how I should make my decisions. And now it's so interesting to reflect back on that time frame almost eight years ago, and realize I'm exactly where I'm meant to be. Like, the validation. I'm sure all of us, we can connect the dots retrospectively, but there's a reason why things happen on the trajectory that they did. 2016 to 2018 to 2019 to 2024. It's also clear to me now, and had I not taken that leap of faith, and that's really what it was, I was like, I know I'll be successful. My husband's like, I think you're losing your mind. But he would be. He's the proudest person in my life. He'd be the first person to tell you you're exact. You're doing exactly the work you were supposed to be doing. And the irony is, almost every day, in particular, advanced practice nurses and other healthcare providers reach out to me, and they're like, I want to do what you're doing. How did you get to from where you were to where you are now? And to your point, people see the highlight reel. They don't see all the other. Spinning your wheels as you're trying to move your business forward and having tremendous faith in yourself and your capabilities, and then getting the validation to understand that your work is so needed. Like all of us and everyone listening to this podcast, your work is so needed and so valuable, and yet we just have to have the faith in ourselves to understand that the voices are needed. You know, we need to build an army to help support people's, you know, health and wellness needs. Because the current system is so broken.

Yeah. You know, Dan Sullivan says that every system does exactly what it's designed to do. And, you know, my take on that is the system isn't necessarily broken. It's fixed. It's fixed to be a certain way. And it's rigged against the patient, it's rigged against the practitioner, so that a small percentage of people, this invisible hand, benefits from everything that's happening. All the cogs that are moving and, you know, all the people involved in the process, it kind of grinds them down. Right. So it's like a system. Unfortunately, it's great in emergency situations as we. We want to definitely give thanks to the system for being there in those type of situations. But, you know, eventually it grinds down the practitioners, it grinds down the patient, it grinds down insurance companies, it grinds down governments. Like, it's just. I can't see how this is going to play out over the course of 50 years or even 100 years. And I think we'll look back as a society and be like, what were we thinking? Like, that just seems so ridiculous that this is. It's almost like we have a flat earth belief system in medicine that this is the only way, but really we have a multidimensional planet that we live on. And another thing that you mentioned that I thought was quite interesting is the midlife crisis piece, because I know that for a lot of people, you know, going into, like, a more holistic style of practice happens around midlife. Right. However, I feel like it's not even a midlife crisis. It's an opportunity to be reborn. And it's like a rebirth as opposed to a crisis. And I think reframing that in people's minds can be very helpful because, yes, when you're born, what did you do? You cried, right? And. And you. But you had a whole world of opportunity ahead of you. And that's what I want people to look at this like, is you can leave the old world behind, you can get out of the womb and that comfort zone that you've been incubating in all these years for some people, and once you come out of the other side of that, you know, there is a world that you didn't even know existed that is ready to receive you and to embrace you. And of course, we're gonna trip and fall and pick ourselves up just like a baby would have to. It's like learning how to walk again. Or it's learning how to, you know, it's learning how to even recognize that these are my own hands. Right. It's learning how to eat. It's learning how to do all those things in. In a metaphoric state as an entrepreneur versus being an employee. So I'm curious. You mentioned your parents a little bit. I'm curious, do you have any entrepreneurial role models that gave you that leap of faith? Were your parents entrepreneurs or did you just. Were you the first entrepreneur in your family?

I. I am absolutely the first entrepreneur in my family. And one thing that my parents did well, I think so. It's so easy to criticize our parents. Right? But one thing my parents did really well was inst. A strong sense of self confidence. And I feel like when I look back on my nursing and then my nurse practitioner career, I existed, but I felt like I wasn't fully existing. I wasn't fully stepping into my potential. And we could make the argument that, you know, I had young kids, my husband was traveling. You're just going through the paces, whereas now I feel like my eyes are wide open. And if anyone were to ask me in my family, because I, I, I, if I were to look at my family as a whole, there are a lot of people in medicine, There are a lot of people in education. So I come from a family of people that are of service to others. So that is fervently very a very strong part of my upbringing. But I've had family members tell me, you are the craziest person in the family, meaning not really crazy, but you have a tremendous ability to actualize your potential. Like, you knew that in order to get from point A to point B, you had to really push yourself hard. And acknowledging that not everyone has the same degree of risk. Like my husband, I'm married to an engineer. He would never have done something like this. That would have scared the bejeebers out of him. But I said, that's why we're so good for each other, because I'm the pusher and you're the one that's a little more conservative, and we balance each other out. So I do have a child that I suspect will be an entrepreneur, and he's constantly figuring out strategies and solutions. And so I can already see in his mind, I mean, he's talking about going to business school. He wants to work on Wall street because he wants to be able to work at these complicated computational analysis models, which I have great respect for, because that's not the way my brain works. But, no, I did not have a role model. I, I really think that I figured things out a bit on my own. But one thing I did very early on, and I know we both are in agreement about this, you have to invest in your mindset, and you have to invest in your business. So I, at a very early point in my business, got my first business coach. And I credit every coach I've ever hired with helping me drive my business further, because you cannot do it all on your own. And it's not to suggest that you're incapable. It's just hire people that know more than you do to help you expedite your growth. And so I really do credit. Just like when I joined mindshare in 2019, and I remember saying, okay, my talk went viral. That's the validation that the universe is telling me it's time to leap again. And it was absolutely the right decision, because when I first joined that mastermind, I felt like I was a little fish in a big pond, really just amazed at the amount of the quality of the people I was around and people I had so much ability to learn from. So I'm a proponent of being a lifelong learner. And so for me, there's no greater joy than, like, I love to learn. So to me, it was like, oh, there are people that have been doing this for longer than I have, and I want to emulate what they're doing in my own business. And so I'm very coachable. I always say, not only did I hire the right coaches, but I'm very coachable. Like, you give me some suggestions to do in my business, I'm going to do it, and I'm going to get it done. Because I always say, like, my business is not a hobby. And it's okay for people that want to make their business a hobby, that's not a criticism. But for me, I was like, I want to make impact. And as a side effect of that, I want to be able to generate income. And so that has always been my belief system is, you know, income and then more. And so, you know, deciding, like, where you want to be, but investing in your business so that you can, you know, amplify your message and also expedite getting to the points where you want to be in your business, I think is really, really important.

I love that. You know, I had a conversation again, same person this morning who I coach, and I told her, I said, you know, you're capable of doing all the things that I've done that others have done. However, how long it will take you, that's the question mark, right? So it's not a capability question mark. It's a timeline question mark. And I think I like to think of mentorship and coaching and masterminds like a time machine, and it can help you propel forward so much faster. So something that might take 10 years for you to learn or for you to master and mistakes that are made along the way, you can shorten that cycle down to, let's say, three months or a year or even three years, and win back those seven years where you can actually grow instead of taking 10 years to get things off the ground. And there's so much to learn. I mean, I'm the forever student, as I know you are as well. And I just love learning and sharing and bringing it to the world, as I. As I know you do as well. And, you know, with your podcast, I'm sure you've had some amazing interactions with people, and I think that's probably part of your M.O. is like, how do I learn? From the experts, of the experts and then bring this information to the world. I did have a question for you, kind of on topic, but off topic since you are a fasting expert and there was recently a article which I'm sure you've been asked a million times this question, but I want to hear it from the horse's mouth, as they say. What's your take on this article? That was, and I know it was, it's not even peer review literature. But what is your take on this new hit piece on fasting or time restricted feeding that's come out recently?

Yeah, so this is an American Heart association paper. Not even a paper, a document that came from an epidemiological conference recently. It was only looking at two days worth of data. It wasn't peer reviewed, it wasn't a research study. But what ends up coming out of that is the typical clickbait information that the media loves to take. One little clickbait, that's by saying if you time restrict, feed or if you intermittent fast, you're going to increase your mortality and morbidity for cardiovascular disease. And I thought to myself, well, epidemiological research is some of the poorest quality research because people as a whole don't like to tell you what they're really eating. That's number one. Because either because they perceive that you're going to judge them or they want to please you. So they're going to tell you like, oh, I had grilled chicken and broccoli when in essence they had a Big Mac and a Coke. And I tell people all the time that's just the bias of, of, of people when they're self reporting food. So it was only two days worth of information. And, and I'm not suggesting that intermittent fasting doesn't deserve to have more research done to explore the possibilities certainly within women in particular, where most of the research that's been done has been done on men, obese, menopausal women and then rodent studies. So there is more research that's needed. But you certainly can't draw a conclusion from two days worth of information self reported on an epidemiologic conference where this was discussed. I don't even want to say that it was a paper because it wasn't something formal. And so it just goes back to clickbait. You know, anytime the media likes to glob onto a statistic or something that they pulled out of a research article, I teach my clients, I help them understand. Like I want you to go look at was it statistically significant how many people were involved in the research? You know, was it, you know, kind of standard randomized controlled trials, or was it observational research so that you can look at the quality of what's been done before you even get your feathers ruffled? So, as I've told everyone across social media, because I did a, a video, I think on Instagram, maybe two days after it came out, I said, let's just put this to rest. Like, this is why I'm not, this is not, this is not impacting my decision to continue talking about intermittent fasting. And I don't think for most of us, it is going to change. Utilizing that as a strategy either for our patients, ourselves, or our clients. And so I would just say that's typical clickbait media junk, and I would just leave it where it is.

You got to love that, right? How we live it. We live in a world where it's all about sensationalism and clickbait and, you know, further confusion, confusing the consumer and not in a positive way. You know what I mean? I think it just because we had a bunch of clients, because we incorporate fasting into our protocols, so we had a bunch of people reaching out to us and saying, hey, what do you think of this? And I'm like, well, the American Heart association also wants you to eat Cheerios. So if you're time restricted feeding, when are you going to fit Cheerios into your schedule? You know, so we have to take a lot of things with a grain of salt and, you know, be able to look behind the sensational, you know, clickbait headlines. And it's awesome that people like you are helping us understand that. I just get very sarcastic with these things and I let the experts like yourself break down the scientific, you know, knowledge base that you have.

Well, and it's, it's unfortunate because it's not just the American Heart association, it's the American Diabetes Association. There are so many organizations that intrinsically are designed to protect consumers that are so rifed with influence by the pharmaceutical industry, the processed food industry. And so there, there's a lack of objectivity now. Now it's very subjective and unfortunately, I will say this pejoratively. There are still a lot of clinicians that will take whatever the AHA or the ADA says, and they use it as an example of what their patients should be doing. Like, there was a recent ada, there was a registered dietitian, I believe, who works for the ada, American Diabetes association, and she's not very metabolically healthy. And you can see that. And she's telling everyone to have lots of heart, healthy grains and all these processed carbohydrates and how that's so beneficial. And it was circulating on Twitter, slash X. And I said, this is exactly the advice to keep you sick and misinformed. And not even because it isn't appropriate for me to comment on the. The. The. The health of this individual, but helping people understand that a lot of these organizations, it's really in their best interest to keep us in a position where we don't fully understand what we're agreeing to do.

Yeah, I. I used to. You might not know this about me. Most people may not know this about me, but I used to be a speaker for the American Diabetes association, and. And I quit, like, after just, like, a few talks because it became very clear to them what my objective was. And it also became clear to me what their objective was. And I was, you know, speaking and teaching people how to basically, you know, let's call it reverse diabetes or put it into remission. And they're like, no, no, no, you can't say that. And I'm like, what do you mean, I can't say that? That's what I'm seeing in my practice. That's what we're seeing is creating results for people. And they're like, no, you got to tow this line. And I'm like, well, you can go toe it. Because I'm not interested in telling people, you know, information that is inaccurate or. Or, you know, not. I want to share what's working clinically for people who want to get off of these medications or reduce the medications, and not people who want to, you know, kind of keep stuff in their face with foods that aren't serving them or, you know, not even looking or thinking outside of the box. Because as you and I both know that things that raise blood sugar are not just food. I mean, poor sleep will cause blood sugar dysregulation. A lack of sunlight will cause dysregulation. Stress will cause dysregulation. Our microbiome will cause dysregulation. And I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's. They weren't interested in any of that. They were just, like, myopically focused on food and medicine. And, you know, just. It's interesting. So I hope people listening to this understand that this is what we're up against. And as you and I both know, like the asteroid that's about to hit this country, and really this planet is metabolic Dysfunction and metabolic dysfunction spills into so many different chronic health challenges. And of course, intermittent fasting is a powerful tool to help people address metabolic dysfunction. I'm curious, what spurred your interest in intermittent fasting? And, and then what helped? You know, what, like, what drove you to spread that message with the rest of the world?

Well, selfishly, what drew me to intermittent fasting was I was the typical middle aged perimenopausal woman who had never had a weight problem their entire life, and in early perimenopause, could not shed ten pounds. When you're five foot three, that really does make a big difference. And so I was doing all the right things. And I just recall I stumbled upon, I think, my personal trainer, if you can imagine this at the time, how progressive. So maybe you should try to intermittent fast. I was like, no, no, no, that's starving. Like, that was my mindset. It's starving. And so I started reading about it, and then I stumbled upon Jason Fung's book. And I, every time I've ever met Jason or talked to him, I've always said, thank you for giving me the courage to embrace intermittent fasting. Because in my mind I was like, you know, this is someone who has real training and is well respected, and he's using this, these protocols with his patients. So I came to intermittent fasting with a desire to change body composition like most women do. But I stayed for all the other benefits. And I didn't initially lose weight. I felt so much better. I was so cognitively clear. I had so much more energy, I had so much less bloating. I mean, just all these things that we don't give enough credit to. And so over time, I did eventually lose weight, but then I would go to work and I would start talking to my patients about it, who, some of whom thought I was crazy. Oh, you want to starve me? No, no, no. I was like, you're diabetic, you're a vasculopath. We should try this. And so anyone that was willing to listen to me, I started talking about it. And then obviously, as I mentioned, I left clinical medicine. And in 2018, when I decided to do the TED talk, I was offered two around the same time. And if you know anything about TEDx talks, you can't do two talks about the same topic. So my first talk was at the uber sepsis topic of perimenopause. But for any woman who's gone through it, you know that this is good information. And I looked at my husband. I'll Never forget this December of 2018. I said, what do I know a lot about? He said, intermittent fasting. And with that ease, I made the decision my second talk was going to be about fasting. And it was. And so I didn't realize that that topic would be one of the most sought after, researched, Googled concepts of 2019. So my talk was recorded in March after being hospitalized for 13 days. So we talk about how Western medicine is important when you're sick. And I was definitely sick, very humbling. And I did that talk 27 days after I left the hospital. And I told my kids, we're going to have a great summer. I'm going to unplug. And then in May, the talk got released and that changed everything. So I think on a lot of different levels, I always say I came to intermittent fasting out of a curiosity for myself, selfishly. But then I had so much success and felt so much better that anyone that was willing to listen to me. And you could ask my husband this, I mean, we would go to parties. He's like, please don't talk about, please don't talk about it. And I was like, I know, but we have all these middle aged women who would benefit from eating less often. And so, you know, I talked to everyone and anyone that I could, and I just never realized that that would then be something that would be so associated with me. And really, if I talk to anyone, I would say, working in cardiology for 16 years, I've always been talking about metabolic health. So it's really not too far or a departure from my great love, which is cardiology. But now it's evolved into other things. But yeah, you know, intermittent fasting is a strategy that most everyone can use in some capacity or another to improve metabolic health. And that goes from my teenagers who do not fast, let me be clear. But they can even go 12 hours without eating, even with their voracious appetites and two dinners and two lunches and all the food they eat every day. They can even go 12 hours without eating with their metabolisms running along like hummingbirds. So can the rest of us.

I love that it's such a, I mean, it's such a needed strategy for people. I mean, one of the things that of course, it helps heal the organ systems, gives the immune system a break. And I think what it also helps us do is develop our prefrontal cortex to not, you know, be so, not to succumb to our senses constantly. So there is a, I'm sure there's a brain Benefit that takes place there as well, in addition to the biological brain benefits, just the developing that capability of being able to resist. Because, you know, in the presence of food, I mean, our brain says yes, right? And, but our mind has to be able to regulate that. I'm curious as to. Do you go on and off a fasting protocol? Do you fast seven days a week? I'm, I'm curious as to what your protocol looks like for yourself.

You know, it's interesting. If you had said to me five years ago, what do I do? I would say I fast every day. And what I found over the last probably one or two years is that I do better. Just, I would say it's intuitive eating. So on days that I lift in the gym, I might may go 12 or 13 hours without eating. If I'm hungry, I eat. I'm also metabolically healthy and I'm insulin sensitive. So I just try to be very observant of how I feel. Now my family and I are going on a trip tomorrow and I may fast longer because I avoid eating airplane food and airport food as much as I can. So you know for me what the honest answer would be. I make sure that my fasting window is not restrictive so that I'm not consuming enough protein because as we get older, we need more protein, not less. And what I find is a lot of people, women in particular, because they whittle themselves down to one meal a day and they're ready to die on that hill. And in fact, we get angry messages from women all across social media about this. It's very triggering for some people because they feel good. They're like, I feel good. I'm like, but you're chronically under fueling your body and you're going to break down your muscle and then you're going to lose metabolic flexibility. And so kind of my standard prevailing theme is your feeding window needs to be large enough to accommodate, at a minimum, enough protein. That's important. Whether it's plant based, animal based, you choose for yourself. But what I see is a lot of people just, they keep making their feeding window smaller and smaller and smaller. And before they know it, they're consuming 5 or 600 calories a day. The scale is stuck. They don't know why. And so I'm, I'm really a proponent of at least two to three meals a day. And once you get to a point where you're metabolically flexible, when your body can effectively use either stored carbohydrate or stored fats as a Fuel source. And you can intuitively, because if you are someone who is an emotional eater or a binge eater, intuitive eating is not something that you're capable of at this point. It does not mean that might not come with time. But most people, I hope they get to a point where they're able to, as you said, you know, utilize that prefrontal cortex, use executive functioning, determine are you really hungry? Because if you are, please go eat. Or are you bored? Are you stressed? I mean, I'm as guilty as the next person. You know, I like dark chocolate. That's like the one vice I have left, Sachin. And I have some days where I'm really stressed and I'm like, oh, why am I thinking about dark chocolate? I'm like, okay, I need to do something else. Because that is not the answer to me being stressed. So I think that fasting can be a very effective, very helpful strategy, provided that people are nourishing their bodies. And that is something that a lot of the intermittent fasting experts don't talk enough about that. What we're not suggesting or supporting is people eating undereating and chronically undereating, because that is a lot of what I start to see. And I'll say to women, you've been chronically undernourishing your body for probably five to seven years. It's going to take time to reverse out of that and get to a point where you can nourish your body. And I think we also have a culture, a chronic, habitual and in some instances toxic diet culture that inhibits people's ability to have a healthy relationship with food. And I know I'm getting off on a tangent, but when I talk about fasting, I now I feel like I spend a lot of time just encouraging people to eat if they are hungry, to nourish their bodies, because there are extremes on either side that can be unhealthy.

Yeah. You know, thank you for sharing that. And you know, one of the, the people, one of the people that come to mind is David Sinclair, which I'm sure you're familiar with, with his work. And he eats one meal a day and it's all plant based. And I'm like, how does this guy get enough protein?

He looks sarcopenic. I mean, if you look at him, I remember during my book launch there's always, you know, the, the two camps, the people who want to eat enough to trigle muscle protein synthesis and not become sarcopenic or avoid becoming sarcopenic. And then you have the longevity researchers who look sarcopenic and are very thin and, and I always say like I want to be able to get off a toilet when I'm 65. I don't want to be at a point that I'm so weak that I can't carry my groceries or I'm asking my husband to unscrew the lid to a can. Because we know even grip strength is a proxy for, for muscle, overall muscle strength and muscle health. And so there's always these two camps that are, you know, I think they're committed to health but in their own ways. And so I definitely side with the consuming enough protein, streng training, maintaining muscle mass, not looking like a, a, a weakened version of yourself where you're, you've lost quite a bit of muscle mass and are weak and deconditioned and you know, putting yourself at risk for frailty, which we definitely don't want.

Yeah, thank you. You know, a, a big eye opener for a lot of people is having them count their macros. And a lot of people have never done that, including myself. So just earlier this year in January, started looking at my macros to see how much I was eating. And I quickly realized that hey, there's a lot more room calorically for me to eat here. And it was quite eye opening. So for a lot of people that might be a good place to start. And one of the things that I noticed is that my calorie intake was adequate. However, my, my calorie consumption from healthy fats was like through the roof. So I was getting 120%, sometimes almost 200% of the amount of calories from fats. Cause I was, I'm vegetarian, so I'm eating a lot of nuts and seeds and you know, trying to get high, high quality sources of fats, slash proteins into my diet. And I realized I was blowing my fats out through the roof. So yeah, I think that's a good exercise for a lot of people is just count your macros for a few days without changing what you eat and just see if you're getting enough of what you need. And I think people quickly realize that they're very imbalanced in terms of what they need to consume and what they are consuming. And addressing that delta can be a huge revolution in their health.

Absolutely. And I find that a lot of men and women, so I'm not going to be pejorative here, eat too little protein and too many carbs. So you were saying you were over consuming those calorically dense fats, but what I find is most people don't eat enough protein. And there's this protein leverage hypothesis that if you don't get enough adequate protein intake, your body will seek out sources of foods that are generally going to come from fats and carbohydrates. And this process actually in women in particular accelerates as our follicular stimulating hormone is going up and our estradiol estrogen levels are going down. So latter stages of perimenopause and menopause, because I'll have women say, I do really well till I get home at night, and then I'm in the pantry at 9 o' clock at night and I can't stop eating. And so I remind them first meal of the day is the most important in terms of setting up blood sugar regulation, you know, reducing the likelihood that you're going to have hyperphasia, the desire to continue eating. And so it's like, set up that first meal and get a good amount of protein in that first meal, and that will set you up for the rest of the day for sure.

I love it. Thank you. Now, you've written a book on intermittent fasting. Tell us more about that process. Because writing a book is a very daunting task.

I can tell you that. Writing a book is like birthing a child. You somehow forget what the process is like till you contemplate doing it again. So obviously that talk that I mentioned, that TED Talk, went viral in 2019. So in 2020, I had the opportunity. My book concept went to auction. And so writing a book proposal, I think, is worse than writing a book. That was my experience. That was super stressful. But it went to auction, which was great because there were multiple publishers that were interested in publishing it. And it turned out my favorite of the seven was the one who ultimately ended up publishing my book. And again, 2019 is when the concept of intermittent fasting was really riding a high. So they were like, we want this book out really fast. So for me, unlike most authors, I think I had about three months to get my first manuscript in, which is not a lot of time. The revisions were done at month five, and then it was published the following year. So that was a little bit of a baptism by fire. And publishing a book is not just the writing of it, it's the. The publicity around it and all the press that you do. And so it's like running a marathon. And something that our good friend has emphasized to me over and over again is, don't abandon your book. And it's like running a Marathon. And so to this day, my book continues to sell hundreds of copies every month, almost every week, because I'm still out there and talking about it. And I always say it's like my first book, baby, because obviously my. My human children are greater importance, but the book, baby, I don't want to abandon the baby. And so it's really given me a unique perspective to be able to showcase nurse practitioners, because I'm always really proud to be a nurse and an advanced practice nurse. But also, you know, the first book really written by a woman, for women, about fasting. And unique to that because most other books were written for everyone. And obviously this book was written for women from cycling age all the way up to menopause. And so it really gives kind of a unique perspective. But, yeah, the book, Baby, you never want to abandon the book, baby. So I just signed my second book deal recently. Will not be about fasting, but writing a book is probably one of the most professionally gratifying things I've ever done. Because to have a concept, have it come to fruition and being able to impact lives on another level is really exciting.

I love that. So in addition to writing your book, the Intermittent Fasting Transformation, you also have a podcast, which, like, I don't know how you do all this, how you keep yourself so busy with so many balls in the air, but tell us about what. What was the inspiration of the Everyday Wellness Podcast?

Yeah, well, the. The honest answer is a good friend of mine who's a clinical psychologist was the one in 2018 that said, I, I think we should do a podcast together. And admittedly, at the beginning, I was kind of half assing it because I wasn't really sure, was I really into this? Was she more into it than I was? But the beautiful thing is, at the end of 2019, after we'd only been doing it for about a year, she said, you know, I'm just not feeling this is in alignment with where I want to be in my business. And we left things on good terms, that there was no, you know, negativity. And it was really the start of the pandemic, and it was sink or swim. My mindset was, I'm either going to dive all in or I'm just not going to continue this. And I'm so glad that I dove right in, because podcasting is, without a doubt my most favorite thing I do in my business. I had these big, audacious goals of guests that I wanted to bring on, and generally, people said, yes, people are just incredibly gracious and kind of. And the podcast was like the little engine that could. It just grew and grew and grew and grew and continues to grow. And it's turned into not just a wonderful revenue stream, but I think podcasting is the best way to network. You know, when I think about, like, as an example, this second book proposal that I just wrote, the reason why I was able to take such a unique angle was because I read everyone's books for the podcast. So I knew there was a space within the space that was missed that I could definitely speak to from a place of authenticity. But it's also such an amazing way to connect with other people doing great work. And because you've already had that intimate conversation with them, it's no big deal to reach out and say, hey, I'd love to introduce you to this person who's really a fan of your work or, you know, collaborate with. With other people in. In ways that, you know, really transcend anything I could have ever imagined. So if someone were to ask me about podcasting, I would say, there are not too many podcasts. If you want to do a podcast, do it, and do it, you know, do it the way you want to, with your unique, you know, flourish and the way that, you know, however you want to interview and whatever topics you want to discuss. I mean, there's definitely things I avoid discussing on the podcast for my sanity, but overall, I feel like I learned so much. And as we've both talked about, I love learning. So to me, there's nothing more awesome than being able to spend a chunk of my Saturday afternoon reading a book for someone I'm interviewing the following week. And I really do read all the books, because there's nothing more sad than when someone comes on your someone you show up on their podcast, and they say to you, I didn't read your book, because you know how that's gonna go. I'm like, I always value the honesty, but I'm like, okay, I really do try to read the books because it gives you a gestalt of that person and their essence. And, you know, it's this incredible exchange, so you get to share that with your community. And so I think podcasting is really just an incredible opportunity to connect with people and to share the beauty of your guests and, you know, their thought process. Now, I'll be honest. I've had a couple duds, a couple dud interviews, and I just politely say, something must have happened when we were recording. And I always leave it at that. Like, I never want to make it, you know, find a negative, reframe. I just say something happened when we were recording. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm. I'm sorry, we aren't going to be able to publish your podcast. And then that's the most polite way to just say that's not going to be published. But, you know, 99.9% of the people I've interacted with, I've so thoroughly enjoyed it. I feel very, very blessed and fortunate to be able to. To do that.

Oh, that's amazing, Cynthia. This has been so enlightening. We talked about so many things. We talked about fasting. We talked about your journey. We talked about the leap of faith that you took many moons ago and how it's serving you and how it's serving the countless lives that you've touched since then. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for your time today. I know you're traveling, so safe travels to you and your family. And here's to continued growth and success. And I know you probably can't tell me what the book is about, but wishing you much luck with getting that published. And when it's ready to go and ready for prime time, let me know. We're happy to help you promote it, too.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Always a pleasure connecting with you.

Thank you.