Holistic Weight-loss Without Drugs with Marcelle Pick

Hello, my friends, and welcome to Perfect Practice. Today, as always, we have a wonderful conversation lined up for you. My guest today is Dr. Marcel Pick. Marcel and I met through Mindshare, which is a community that many of you are familiar with, and we just became fast friends. I don't even know how we when our first interaction was, but I just felt like this instant and deep connection. I think our philosophies are very much in alignment with one another. Our values are very much in alignment with one another. And we've been having a ton of conversations privately and through text message. And I said, you know what, we need to get on an interview style dialogue so that other people can tap into this conversation that we've both been having together. So first of all, welcome, thank you for being here and thanks for taking time out of your busy day to join us.

Thank you. I'm very excited about this interview. So let's see where it takes us.

Awesome. So if somebody's meeting you for the first time, how would you describe what it is that you do? And secondly to that, why is what you do important?

Wow. So I started my medical practice in 1985. We were the first all women's practice in the country. And we were doing, to the best of our ability, functional medicine or integrative medicine back then. So we were the. They called us the granola docs on the hill. When we went to grand rounds, it was like, you know, and they would always, you know, rib us and tell us how ridiculous that information was that we're giving out patients. As it turns out, obviously, many years later, we were right about many things, including things like probiotics and how to treat ulcers a little bit differently and, you know, very much different. So what I've always been interested in, I grew up in the outback of Australia, so I spend a lot of time in Aboriginal caves. And I've always been interested in looking at what are the root causes of illness. You know, yeah, we say we've got fatigue, but it may not be just related to low, you know, hemoglobin. It may be related to mitochondrial dysfunction. And in medicine, we've never done that. So I've always been intrigued with how do we get our population that's so unhealthy now to be healthier because we are really in trouble when it comes to the medical model that we have, and it's falling apart. So we as practitioners need to stand our ground and really help people get better by looking at what the root causes are. And that's what we did when we started Women to Women, you know, many, many moons ago is to look at how do I teach my patients how to be their own midwives. So I teach them as much as I can about their own health and well being and given test results. And we were even doing that in 1986, believe it or not, 1987, and looking at alternative testing for stool testing for adrenals, for other things. So we were. Yeah, we were the renegades in the community for sure. And it's been a passion for me my entire life is to really look at how do I help people get.

Wow. So you're approaching 40 years of doing this. That's amazing.

Oh, my God. I know. Yes, I have been doing a long time.

Wow. Well, thank you for paving that path for many of us who've since then followed and are trying to follow in the footsteps of leaders like yourself. You know, I was thinking in my head, you know, look who's smiling now, right. In the sense that, you know, when you're, when you have the courage of your convictions to, you know, to, to continue down that path despite perhaps being challenged, maybe even being ridiculed, it says a lot about your character and I appreciate that about you. And I know that one of the big areas of, of what we both do and collectively put out into the world is being called into question. So we'll definitely talk about that. But you said something that I wanted to double down on. You said you lived in Aboriginal caves. Like, tell, tell me more about that experience and what, what took you there? How'd you end up there?

So I was born there. I was born in Australia. My mom was Dutch, my dad Hungarian. And they moved there after the war. They were both Holocaust survivors, so they wanted to get out of Europe. And I grew back, grew up in a place called Bundina, which was really the outback. My brother laughs at me, but we didn't. Cars, we had an outhouse. I didn't know how to flush a toilet until I was 11 when we came to America. And in the woods, there were a lot of Aboriginal that people didn't know about. And I spent a fair amount of time in those caves by myself or, you know, with friends. And it just brought me to a very different way of kind of imagining life. And it was like the transition when I came to America because I had to wash a toilet and cars and, you know, street signs and street lights and all these things I just didn't have when I grew up. So it was a very different way of living. I know. Isn't that amazing? It's, like, crazy now, but it was a very different life.

It's fascinating where life takes us. You never know. You've certainly lost the accent, because I would have never guessed I did. No.

I grew up in Virginia, though, and fortunately, the accents kind of blended themselves out. So I don't have a Southern accent either, which is really.

It's like two waves cancel each other.

I know, exactly. Something happened, and I was teased so badly when I came here that I really did anything to fit in.

Wow. So tell me, what inspired you to go down the route of being in medicine? Like, was there something in your life that happened that inspired you to become a doctor?

Yeah. So I'm actually a nurse practitioner. And I think what inspired me was I've always believed that there we needed to help people get better. It's been my, my dream since I was a young girl. And I think the whole notion of the Aborigines, you know, really helped facilitate that. And then I grew up in Virginia beach, where Edgar Cayce was. So I went to the Edgar Casey Foundation a lot. And my mother was someone who never used medications, was really all about, how do we. How do we help heal things without drugs? You know, my, my mom was Dutch, so she made everything from scratch. So we never had any of the processed foods. I didn't grow up with it and was very, very aware. I started looking at some of the work of Therapeutic Touch, Decreiger and delorean, and they were doing research in the hospital looking at, if you did Therapeutic Touch, can you change hemoglobins? The answer was yes. Can you change pain medications? Yes. So I went to a lot of the experiences at Pumpkin Hollow and then went to graduate school at Harvard Med because I knew I was going to be confronted. And I needed to have a degree behind me that supported the fact that I did the discipline I needed to do to be able to come out of this saying, I'm rigorous, looking at research, and I understand it, but I also understand there's another side, and that's I also teach for the Institute of Functional Medicine, and we're sticklers for that. Look, where's the science to support what we're doing? But there is another way. If you understand the root cause, it's not about, you know, Prozac deficiency. It may be something else that's going on. So it's been a part of my life forever. And I, I, I, I was never on the trajectory of a allopathic path.

You Know as you're. Thank you. First of all, thank you for sharing. One of the things that is coming up for me is kind of an awareness that Steve Jobs gained when he went to India for the first time. And when he came back, his observation was, is that there's a difference between people who are intellects and people who are intuitive. And while some people may not have a ton of education, they can tap into their intuition and make very seemingly intelligent decisions. And it seems like you've kind of got the best of both worlds where you grew up in an environment where you probably had to rely a lot on your intuition and. And then moved into an environment where you had to have a high intellect. And I think that's a very unique combination that, you know, certainly many, many people don't have. I'm curious, how much does your intuition play a role in how you approach a case?

I think it's enormous. I mean, I have also been very intrigued. My father was a psychologist, as was my mother, and my father introduced me to the ACE study when it first came out. He was in. In Hungary at the time doing workshops on terrorism. And I was intrigued by the idea that our story can create our biology. So I incorporate that. And I was the first online to do that in 2001 to really talk about our thoughts, can predict our biochemistry. And most everyone understands that now that's in the functional medicine world. But a lot of people didn't understand that connection. And I think in allopathic medicine, we miss that. We just say, well, decrease your stress. Well, what does that even mean if we don't know that our thoughts of yesterday can actually change the biochemistry today? Because our body doesn't know the difference between yesterday and today. And I think we need to start talking about that more, especially with the culture that we have now. People are so stressed and we, you know, for me in my practice, I talk a lot about this notion of what are some of the things that you need to do to help change that cortisol production. And we're a quick fix as a culture. You know, we see that with the weight loss medications now, it's like, get me there tomorrow. It's like, it doesn't quite work that way.

You know, it's. It's really fascinating because I think that, you know, there's a. There's an interesting distinction that people have to make, and I know our conversation will take us here between speed and direction. So it's one thing to go fast, it's another thing to be going and moving Your health really in the right direction. And so, you know, we live in a quick, quick fix culture. And I think that's what everyone wants. Right. If somebody's in pain, they don't want. We don't want to prolong their pain more than we need to. And we have to think not just short term, but we have to think long term. And I would say that the long term, thinking, you know, leads is not what people are doing enough of. Right. They, they're just thinking and living in the now, being present to what's. What's happening to them now and wanting a solution to their problems now. But I think that it's going to require all of us to think more long term to get a better understanding of. Is this actually what you really want? And, and I'm sure you found this, and I've certainly found this, that I'm more concerned about the direction you're going in than the speed in which you're traveling in. Because there's nothing good about going fast in the wrong direction, which is where we find a lot of people ending up these days, hands down.

Yeah. I think that we, unfortunately, specifically, I think a lot in America, we're very much oriented towards, I'm going to do this, and by tomorrow I'll have this. It's not, it doesn't always work that way. And if we have 93 to 97% of our population metabolically inflexible, wow, we're not going to get that. You know, we're not going to make that go away overnight.

You know, it seems, it seems crazy when you think that 90 to 93% of people are metabolically inflexible or metabolically unhealthy or metabolically busted, as one of our mutual friends, Dr. Tina, would say. I'm curious as to what would be some of the signs. So if a clinician is listening to this, what would be some of the signs that somebody is metabolically inflexible? What would they be saying in their, in their, in their appointment with their practitioner?

Sure. I mean, their blood pressure is starting to creep up. Their hemoglobin A1C is no longer 5.2. It's like 5.6, 5.7. Their triglycerides are going up, their cholesterol is going up, they're complaining of feeling fatigued, they're starting to have circulatory issues. Their, you know, their muscle mass is, is decreasing, and they really don't know why. They're starting to crave carbohydrates and sugar they may have GI issues, bloating, gas, constipation, diarrhea, sibo or even a parasit infestation. They might have some type of cancer. I mean, many of us now are starting to understand that cancer is really a metabolic dysfunction. And it's not just about, you know, breast cancer. It's an estrogen issue. I just don't agree with that. So we're really starting to see so many people and now we're seeing the younger population with more colon cancer than we've ever seen in our history. What, what's up, you know, what's going on here? And so many of the things that we see in our practice that are far more than we saw many years ago, those are metabolic inflexibility from my perspective. So it's going to the root to figure out what went awry and what do we need to do about it. Oftentimes starts with the gut for sure, and also adrenals, in my opinion. But it's then when we start correcting some of those things start, things start to really balance out. But that's think in allopathic medicine, we're really thinking about the diagnosis and the treatment and you know, there we are. And then we get stuck because people don't feel significantly better.

I love that. You know, one thing I, I shared today earlier in inspired by our conversation, is that if you could improve every area of your life by 25%, what would your life look like? Right? And it wouldn't just be 25% better, it would be orders of magnitude better because every area of your life would improve. And metabolic health is that, you know, for every cell, tissue and organ in our body, when we improve metabolic function, it doesn't just improve one ICD9 code, for example, it has significant impact on every system in our body simultaneously. And this is why I love focusing on metabolic health. Because when we, when we do get to the root cause and to the bottom of what's causing dysfunction there, people are like, oh my God, my brain is working better. You know, they thought they came in to maybe lose some weight or to have better digestion, but now every area in their body is lighting up and functioning closer to peak performance. So it's really rewarding to kind of work in this space as well. I'm sure you have tons of case studies. Is there one that sticks out to you?

Yeah, I mean, I had somebody, she was younger and she had two young children and I actually saw her on the beach. She didn't know I saw her and she was screaming at her kids and she had really bad pms, but she also had gut issues. And as we kind of journeyed together, all of her PMS went away. And so not only did she feel better and have more energy, but guess what? The kids benefited. And then I have an amazing story of somebody who came in to see me who had done ivf, got pregnant and was bedridden with endometriosis. And she really wanted to get pregnant again. And she was 37. And she just said, you know, I'm having a hysterectomy next week. I said, look, I can't, I can't fix this by next week. Would you be willing to postpone? And she did. We did all the things that we know in functional medicine. We looked at a gut microbiome, endo and, and systemic yeast are almost always hand. And we treated that. I also recommended that she go to Al Anon because she was living with someone that was an alcoholic. She did all the things. And then I said to her when she came back, because she was so much better, you really need to use birth control. And she just laughed at me. She goes, I've got a tube that's not patent on one side and half. Half an ovary on the other. She got pregnant. So we can fix so much when we know how to kind of get to the root causes. So this woman had really bad pms. She's now a bit of parent. And this other woman has another child. So, you know, I do gynecology most of the time, so it was more women than I saw. So it's spectacular when you're able to make those kind of changes, when you just do root cause medicine.

Why, why in from your perspective, is this not more mainstream? Is it because it's more work? It's a different type of.

I think, I think it's more work. I think, you know, once you're kind of conditioned to you have an ulcer, then you're going to treat this protocol and we're done. It was like, well, what happened? Why is the microbiome of the gut more susceptible to Helicobacter pylori? What else do we need to find out if somebody has bloating? They have ibs. Well, for me, irritable bowel syndrome is far from. It's just have more fiber, there's something going on in the microbiome of the gut. They have a parasite. Do they have yeast? It takes more time. And I never, ever in my practice and I had insurance companies so angry with me. Because I still took insurance until I left one on one patients, they would get mad because I never spent less than 30 minutes per patient and an hour for new patients in a practice that took medical insurance. So. And I was always called on the carpet for too many 9921 fives. It's like that's just how it goes and I got people better. So I think it's the time constraint. I think medicine is in a really, is an uproar right now. People have to do seven minute appointments. I would, I would, I couldn't do it. There's absolutely no way I could do a seven minute appointment. I'm going to miss everything about that person and I'm going to miss key pieces that I have a chance to ask in a 30 minutes.

Yeah, I mean some people get more time with their barista. Right. The morning and more attention and more, more attention to detail than, than they do with their doctors. And it is, it is quite unfortunate. Right. And I think the practitioners, I believe are doing their best with the hands.

That they have, hands down.

And they're, you know, they're essentially practicing medicine without, with their both hands tied behind their back and a blindfold, you know, covering their eyes. And people expect miracles. You know, it's, it's kind of a, interesting time for healthcare because I know what was promised to me and certainly I'm sure was promised to you was, you know, we'd have a pill to fix everything and we could come in with whatever problem we have and you know, we'd have a solution for it. And I feel like we're moving further and further away from that because, you know, that's perhaps not in the best interest of the powers that be. And certainly we have so many really amazing doctors and practitioners that are smart, intelligent, caring people for the most part, I would say. Right. Like with any profession, you're always going to have some bad apples, but they're just kind of put into this system that doesn't allow them to ask the questions that are necessary to actually get the result that they also want for their client. Right. So it is quite unfortunate. But I'm glad that there's trailblazers like you and I'd like to put myself in that category, you know.

Absolutely.

Takes a stand for, for his clients and patients. And you know, it's, it's amazing that in the end you can help so many more people that way because you're not just trying to manage the same person year after year after year. Right. And maintain your existing roster. You're liberating people from a cycle of dependency and actually giving them amazing outcomes in the end, hands down.

And, you know, we have another unfortunate piece to this puzzle, and that's the pharmaceutical industry that has a lot of money, and they are, you know, certainly going to many physicians offices, nurse practitioner offices, DOs, and really saying to them, this is the new thing on the block. This is going to help your practice, and people are going to get better faster. And when you're very, very busy, you don't have the time necessarily, you rely on those drug reps. And we had many, many come to my practice and the lunches and all the other things that were offered to you. And sometimes you are too busy, so you are listening to what they're having to say, and then that puts you further down that road of, you know, I've got Sarah coming in and she's got blah, blah, blah. I got to put, you know, her on this. So it's a huge problem. And, you know, most unfortunately, most medical programs and medical schools only have two to three hours of nutrition. My daughter was in a med school program. She decided not to. To finish it. She did it for a year and she had two hours, and this is at Georgetown of nutrition. And that was two years ago. So that it really hasn't really changed very much. And there's a little bit more to our body than just two hours of nutrition.

Yeah. And even if practitioners got into the habit of perhaps referring more to nutritionists or. Absolutely, there's a nutritionist in every practice so that that person can spend more time with the individual. So, yeah, I mean, there, There definitely needs to be an uproar. And I know both of both you and I believe kind of in a similar. Maybe we say it a different way, but I think the philosophy is. Is very similar, is that how can we empower our patients to be their own best doctors so that they have an awareness, whether it's intellectual and. Or intuitive, ideally both of how their body works and they are their own stewards of their health. And I like to think of the work that you do and the work that perhaps we do. Like driving school. Right. We're going to teach you how to drive so you're less likely to get into the car accident. And if you do, then certainly there's people that can help you. But let's teach you how to drive so you at least have a fair shot at being healthy. And, you know, then you could teach that to your children, grandchildren, spouse, friends, family. I mean, I think that can create such a huge ripple effect when people know how to take care of themselves.

Oh, hands down. I mean, if we even just think about the, the food, the food that we're eating. You know, so many people are unaware that when they're eating a lot of the processed foods that they're really changing their brain biochemistry. And we don't talk about that. It's just, well, I'm. I just, I want to have one Oreo, 2, 3, 4. Because you can't just have one. And the world is not really talking about that because it's really quieted. And that's unfortunately creating some of the problems that we see with metabolic inflexibility. So we have a lot of work to do on many different levels. And I think the work that you're doing and the work that I'm trying to do is more we can get online. The more we can talk about it, the better it's going to be. And, you know, both of us are very invested in what we're doing to make a difference, and that's how things are going to change.

I appreciate that and thank you for sharing. You know, the, the tides have shifted. I feel like, I feel like these last, you know, since 2020, let's call it, there's been a huge level of skepticism of our, of the way things are currently being done in the world. And everything's being called to question into question. Right? And so paradigms are shifting. People are realizing, hey, the people that we thought were experts really didn't know as much as we thought they did, and they. We couldn't rely on them. And certainly, perhaps there wasn't an alignment in values, which I think is such an important part of any decision that we make is, does the person who's giving me this advice have the same values as I do? And if the answer is no, then you might want to reconsider or at least get a second, third, or maybe even a fourth opinion if you need one. Because we want to make decisions, co. Make decisions with people and get guidance from people who have the same values as we do. And that's all been called into question. And I'm sure you heard of this News yesterday. The CEO of UnitedHealthcare was literally assassinated, from what we can tell at this point. And, you know, people are. I mean, I never condone anything like that, but, you know, I can understand how it can come to that. Right. Because even though he probably had nothing to do with it, he's the figurehead of an organization that, you know, people may not think highly of. And, you know, I think a lot of things are being called into question. So what a. What a time to be alive and be in service of people where we can provide, you know, tremendous amounts of value and guide people. Because I think people are feeling lost and, you know, they're looking for, you know, for guides to, you know, guide them down the path that aligns with their higher self and best and highest values as well.

Absolutely. And I think what I love about the work that you do is you incorporate a lot of the body, mind, and spirit in everything you do. And it was quite the journey. When we started doing that in 1985, if you can imagine, it was like we didn't have health food stores around, so it was quite, quite the experience. But now it is mainstream, which is really wonderful.

I think Harvard had a Mind Body Institute, right?

Yes, they did.

Yeah.

Benson was the one who started it. Y.

That's right.

Had a fertility program at the time as well. Yep.

Wow, that's amazing. You know, you talked about. You talked about fertility, and that's a huge issue. And one of the things that I think you and I both probably realize is that it's very metabolically driven in fertility. So maybe comment on that because that's a. That's something that's on the rise these days, and people may not build that bridge. So I'd love for you to share more about that.

Yeah. What we're seeing is, I see it as twofold. You know, back in the day, God, this was many years ago. I have a son and I have twins. I had twins a year later, and they were probably two or three. So it was probably around 1993, someone sent me a book, the Whole Person Fertility Program, and she. She really wanted me to learn about it. And it was looking at, does our emotional life predict fertility? And I called her on the carpet, I called her and I said, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. And then I started working with her program with patients, combining that with looking at digestion, looking at adrenals, and also then looking at kind of family of origin patterns that we've learned. And the fertility rate was enormous. I mean, people were getting pregnant that had failed IVFs, that had failed IUIs, and the success was about 80%. So it is again an issue of metabolic dysfunction. And it can come from cortisol, from adrenals, from, you know, of course, thyroid. We. We always look at all those things. But endometriosis, we know now that the endometrium has a microbiome. We know that the vagina has a microbiome. We know that the lungs have a microbiome. We know that, you know, obviously, the intestines do, too. So as we shift that, we can actually decrease some of the menstrual cramps people are having by changing the microbiome. And so all of that is connected to fertility as well. And we're even seeing people who have what we call premature ovarian failure. It's a terrible name. It's like your ovaries prematurely fail you. I mean, come on. But it is called that, and we're starting to see that we can actually change that trajectory if we're really vigorous about looking at autoimmune issues, because that's a corresponding issue with people with fertility, in particular, premature ovarian failure, we call it pof. So we now have more insights into this. Now, is that the conventional medical model? It isn't. We're still doing IUIs. We're doing IUF or IVF. And. But there is a place called Clear Passage Therapies in Florida, and they are very good at being able to kind of combine all of these things together. Even if you have adhesions, their success rate is better than surgical intervention for increasing fertility. So all of these pieces together are part and parcel of how we can increase fertility for people as well. And it also affects the male partners as well, because sperm counts have gone down astronomically in the last 10 years, and a lot of that is pesticides as well.

Is Clear Passage, Is that the one in Gainesville, Florida?

It is, yeah. I've used them from the very first time. I had patients go down there with very severe cramping and infertility, and I referred them down there. This is a long time ago, so. Yeah. And they have a clinic now in New York City as well.

Amazing. Well, I don't know if I. You knew this or not, but my wife had multiple bowel obstructions.

Yeah.

And we went down to Clear Passage, spent the. Five. Five days. Five days there. And.

Yeah.

So, yeah, when you mentioned that, I was like, oh, I've been there. I know, I know.

They're amazing, and they really are fantastic with adhesions, which is one of the things for some people that have endometriosis. So that's really pretty remarkable and really wonderful. So it's good.

Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that.

And, yeah, absolutely.

You know, there's another big elephant in the room these days, and it has a lot to do with weight loss, and I know you work a lot with clients who are struggling with chronic weight related issues and you take a root cause approach. So let's kind of speak into that a little bit. There's many drugs that are on the market now, they've been on the market for many years, but are now being used as miracle weight loss cures. I'd love to hear your thoughts and your perspectives. As you know, from a pioneer's perspective, somebody who's been doing this for quite some time, what your thoughts are on this kind of upsurge in interest in weight loss and particularly drug induced weight loss.

So one of the things I love about these medications and that's this, that they've helped us understand that weight issues are also a neurotransmitter problem. And what I love about that is because we've taken it off the table for some of these people. It's not your fault. And a lot of women, I saw somebody in my office today, she's 315 pounds and she is not eating enough to have her be that weight while she's gotten lots of metabolic issues. There's no question in my mind. And I think a lot of times women I'm speaking for, women now have been blamed for that. But you and I know that there's other things that we have to look at. And using Ozempic or you know, semiglutide of any kind of, in my opinion has some very significant side effects from the fact that 50% lose muscle, 50 to 60% are losing bone. Whoa, that's not, that's a problem. And muscle of heart muscle that we saw in one of the studies that we talked about. So is it possible that this is something that's going to have very significant side effects at the end of this? I think so. And we know that about 50% of people that stop, they regain the weight plus 10 extra pounds is actually 60%. And when we look at the deep dive of this, there is a way in which it's changing the metabolic pathway GLP1 we have in the gut, it stays generally in the gut. 10% gets absorbed systemically. When we're using the bolus dose, it bypasses the vagus nerve and becomes a neurotransmitter. So yes, it does decrease cravings of alcohol because of yeast becoming a neurotransmitter. So my job now, my patients using the homeopathic that I use as well as something very similar to yours, is I can get that weight off and I can work with them and do coaching with Them so they on the other end of this, 70% keep the weight off. How exciting is that? 35 to 50 pounds in 12 weeks. Are you kidding? That's wonderful. That's better than the semi glutides out there. And I. Honestly, Sachin, I'm worried about what's going to happen at the end of this. What we're going to see in five years, like we did with Fen phen, that we're going to have people crashing and there is no quick fix to this. It's helping people. As you said, with the mindset, neurotransmitter changes that may have occurred because they were eating a lot of junk food for a long time and their dopamine is in the toilet, their serotonin is really off. And by the things that you and I do, we change that so we can get them on the other side and then teach them what to eat when we've looked at their emotions. You know, I had somebody in the, in the practice who lost 45 pounds. She was ecstatic. She was so happy in 12 weeks and she was going out in the public and she was just. Everybody was telling her how amazing she looked. She started gaining weight back. And what we uncovered is that when she was a young girl, her mother said to her, don't you ever think you're better than anybody else, because you are not. And so as soon as that happened to her, there was that emotional piece that occurred as well. And where are we talking about that? With Ozempic or semi glue tied? We aren't. The other thing that I'm worried about is that we're going to have eating disorders on the other side of this because they're going to be terrified of gaining the weight back. They're eating a meal a day, a meal every other day, and then they're going to be even more metabolically unhealthy. So I think we've got a problem on our hands. And God bless anybody that wants to do it. Diabetics for sure and morbidly obese. But is this really the right answer for people that have £40 to lose, £30 to lose? I don't think so. Is it worth the risk? I don't think so. But doing a nice, you know, holistic, if you want to call it, approach, looking at emotions, looking at neurotransmitters, looking at the food that you're eating, giving you some support so that you're not hungry all the time and you're not thinking about food all the time. What an amazing Thing we can offer patients that work incredibly well. And you and I have the same experience with the practice that we have. And then we've got the whole microdosing issue, which is people that both of us know very well are doing small amounts. We're not seeing the weight loss results with that. But now they're talking about, it's changing biochemistry. I'd like to see the science behind that. I don't know what the science is. And I'm a little bit concerned that we may have similar side effects long term. We don't know. We don't even know what these medications are going to do long term. They have never been studied on people that were not diabetic.

Yeah. You know, thank you for sharing that. And, and I, I kind of echo that sentiment of I like to do things I knew worked a thousand years ago and things that will certainly work a thousand years from now, because who we are as humans hasn't changed very much, genetically speaking. Right. For thousands of years. And any geneticist will tell you that what has changed significantly is our environment. And, you know, one of the things I know, I know you and I had discussed is you can naturally increase GLP1 by eating certain types of foods like. Foods like bitters. And we've taken that entire category of flavor out of our diets. And, you know, now we have people eating very processed foods, artificially flavored foods. So we don't even trigger the same internal chemistry with our food that we once used to. You know, if, if somebody were to eat wild foods versus domesticated foods, they taste totally different.

They do, absolutely.

So. So, yeah, so it's kind of fascinating to see, you know, the direction that this goes in. But what's really interesting is that I'm seeing so many people sound the alarm on this. Right. And again, the, the jury's still out there. I think we'll, we'll know in, in, in five years, but intuitively. Right. We talked about intuition earlier. Where do we see this going? And sometimes we may not know exactly why we feel the way we feel, but we just. There's just something that tells me that this is not, you know, going to be the solution that people think it is because it's, it doesn't take into account actually healing the person and healing the emotions like you talked about, because, you know, I've encountered many instances, as I'm, as I'm sure you do in your practice as well, is our adverse childhood experiences. Kind of like the, this young lady that you mentioned, you know, also can Be sometimes weight can be associated to adverse childhood experiences such as sexual assault or sexual harassment, right? Or being. Getting the wrong type of attention, right. From, from people. And, you know, so those things need to be dealt with. Otherwise it could lead to a whole bunch of other issues for people. And the marker that comes to mind for me is like vitamin D, right? So vitamin D, you know, we can test for vitamin D. Certainly most, most practitioners don't, but the ones that do see the value in looking at that marker and we can supplement somebody with vitamin D and maybe artificially raise that value, but that doesn't replace going in the sun, which is what the actual deficiency of that person is, right? Because we're not getting in the sun, we're not getting fresh air, we're not optimizing circadian rhythm, we're probably not grounding, we're probably not taking time away from our desk, right? And de stressing and recalibrating ourselves and getting into a flow state and increasing dopamine and serotonin and all those things that happen when we simply do something as simple as go outside and get some sunlight, which unfortunately, up until now we haven't been able to put into a product or a bottle. And so I think it's important for practitioners, and really anyone listening to this, even if you're a potential patient, to realize that there's no replacement for doing the actual work, right? No pill, even if it's all natural, is going to come and do the push ups for you. Even the products that Marcel and I offer, we have our own unique kind of formulations, but we still encourage people. You have to do the work. And this is why we don't sell our formulations online, right? It comes with the entire package. And the analogy I shared earlier, before we started recording is like, people want to buy the steering wheel, not realizing that what they really want is the whole car, right? And so you need the whole package to get the long term health outcomes. And I also think that, you know, there's an important message that we send to our family members, right? So if I were to come home and let's say any problem I have, I want to solve it. And if I delegate the solution outside of me, when the problem is actually inside of me, I'm sending, I'm bringing, I'm bringing home the wrong message, right? That I don't have to do the work to actually fix what's wrong and I have to rely on something outside of me, external to me to fix this problem. And to me, that's also concerning as a message to bring home to families. I'd be curious as to what your thoughts might be around something like that.

No, I agree with you completely. I mean, one of the things that we're seeing for this epidemic of these weight loss drugs is that we have a culture that's certainly obese. 50% of our children are obese and pre diabetic, and we've got a disastrous situation on our hands. So people's solution then is to use it for children, to use it for everything. And it's much bigger than that. You know, we do know that many of the foods that are processed have emulsifiers in them that are very, very specifically designed to make sure you don't eat just one. So we've got that on top of everything else, plus the emotions that you talked about, there's a huge piece to that. And what's interesting is that Valetti, I had a radio show for a number of years with Hay House and I interviewed him and I basically said, you know, why was this not on the front page of the New York Times, this whole 80s study? And what he said is, if this comes to the world, we have to look in the mirrors. And it's absolutely true. We always have to be looking at ourselves also to do the work that we need to do just so we can be even better practitioners. And he was really quite interesting because when they looked at the study that they did with people with obesity, because that's how it started for him, 75% of those with a hundred pounds to lose had had a history of sexual abuse. Abuse makes sense. It makes sense. So if we don't heal that, they're going to have significant problems on the other side of this. And there's enormous guilt that happens with that and many other things that go along with us needing to, to identify how do we help you? How do we really help you? Look at the root cause to this and get you better on the other side. And we've lost so much of this. How many people go outside now and put their plant their feet on the ground? I wear flip flops year round almost because I want my feet to be able to be air because I grew up with no shoes. But we don't do any of that. We don't meditate. People say to me, I can, I don't know how. We don't know how to ground ourselves. People don't know how to cook. I mean, gosh, get a glass air fryer and you can cook your food really fast. And it's healthy. I mean, so it's going back to some of the basics that you and I do with our people and help them learn that they can have a balance to life. But it also applies to us as practitioners because we're so involved in so many things that we forget ourselves too. And women are terrible at that. They take care of everybody and they forget themselves.

And for me, yeah, that's such a good point. You know, we find that quite often the case and we have to remind, you know, women primarily, and sometimes men, that you can't pour from an empty cup up and you know, you gotta boil, boil your water first thing in the morning so that you can pour hot water into other people and, and steep their coffee or their tea, if you would. I'm pretty amazed at that number. 70% of people who have a hundred plus pounds to lose were sexually abused. It. I hope.

100 pounds? Yeah, I mean, but I think the number was actually even higher than that. And, but it makes sense if you think about it, because it's too scary to be, you know, for women to be attractive to men. And it's a boundary that you can do. And yes, there's a lot of negatives go with it as well. And what I say to people when they're starting to lose weight. I've had a couple of people in my practice that lost a ton of weight and their partners got very threatened and wouldn't let them finish, which is interesting. So there's many dynamics here that need to be addressed when this happens. And if we're not with the Ozempic culture talking about that, especially for those people that are losing £100, we are missing something very, very important. And they will become anorexic or bulimic because it's so wonderful to not have that burden anymore. But at the same time, they're terrified of gaining it back because we're not teaching them that.

It's an interesting psychology, right? Absolutely. You know, you know, when you, when you shared that, I had a sense that the number was high. But it does hopefully give everyone an opportunity to look at others with more empathy. Because, you know, when you see someone who might be, you know, overweight in a case like this, a hundred pounds plus, we might just easily dismiss it as them being lazy or not exercising junk food, but not realizing or recognizing that there is something deeper at play here beyond just, you know, how the food tastes. Right. And beyond just like the chemicals in the food and, and the artificial flavors and colors. There's, there's something that they're trying to bury that they haven't dealt with. And, and yeah, you know, I, I've seen this, I've seen this quite often when you see people who were, let's say in high school or in middle school, like very attractive individuals and you see them, you know, maybe a dozen years or so later and they've gained a bunch of weight and you're just kind of scratching your head wondering what happened. And this makes perfect sense, right? That they're in a way, their six year old self is trying to protect themselves from, you know, that type of attention. And unfortunately, of course, it happens more to women than it does to men. And I've seen this happen in men where men who were bullied gain a bunch of weight because that gives them that form of protection. And so we do see that psychologically perhaps for a different reason in men, but it's that again, that inner child thinks it's doing what's right and protecting us. And until we deal with that six year old self, we may not necessarily be able to get over some of those unconscious blocks that are blocking us from achieving better health.

Yeah. And I think we all have that. You know, none of us had a perfect childhood, whatever that even means. You know, I thought I was trying to be a perfect parent as I find out now my older kids are saying, well, yeah, I mean, I'm joking because I did the best I could. But I, I think that understanding it's not, there's nothing wrong with you if you start to go back and say, you know, I need to perhaps do this differently or I need to figure out how to correct this or whatever. Because we all have our stories. And one of the things that I wrote in one of my books is if we don't deal with our stories, our stories deal with us. Our issues are in our tissues is one of the chapters of my book. And I think that's so true. And we, we can incorporate all of that into the program that you do and that I do. But I don't see Ozempic doing that. I don't see semi glutide doing that. They're getting the weight off and they're losing a lot health wise in between. But what about those other pieces to the equation? How do we really help with that part? And what I love the work that we're doing is that's, that's fundamentally part of, of every single patient that I see.

So important. Right. And the nervous system runs the show at the end of the day. Right. It kind of creates the orchestra of neurotransmitters. We make the hormones that we make, the stories that we keep telling ourselves, and whether it's going to show up in a sympathetic dominant state or getting more into that parasympathetic state. So there certainly are no shortcuts. I've always said shortcuts lead to shortcomings. And I think if we. If somebody is going to take the medications, then I think the psychology is even more important for them to work on. And, you know, regardless, I think that's a important aspect that, you know, oftentimes gets overlooked in all forms of healthcare. Right. Even, you know, functional medicine 1.0 is like, hey, we're gonna. We're gonna run these, like, super advanced labs on you, and we're gonna treat the labs with supplements and herbs and medications if necessary. But I think you really have to look at the person through a. Through a broader lens than that.

Yeah. And understand what's going on. And I think that you can do functional medicine that way. It's just a different, you know, appeal for every ill kind of thing. Only it's a supplement. And that doesn't work either because we have to look at the kind of. The holographic piece of who that person is. And that takes time. You know, I have an hour and a half to two hours. That's what I need to really figure out what happened to a. What's going on and really go back to their own childhood and what their mother's pregnancy was with them. I mean, it's really all that important to me.

Yeah. And there's so many things that you can't test for. Right. You can't test for somebody's childhood experiences. No lab work for that. You can't test for. Does this person go outside and get grounded or spend time in nature? What's. Do they love their job? Do they love their spouse? Do they love themselves? I mean, there's so many important aspects of health and healing that there are no markers for, but there are dialogues and conversations. And I think that's why it's so important that people have the opportunity to express themselves. And I think a lot of times they might even answer their own questions just by sharing their story. They start to realize, okay, there's something here that I need to unpack. And then having somebody to soundboard those ideas off of and somebody to create space and listen to them provides such a important and often not always available healing option for them.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, for me, I can't work with someone if I don't know what their ACE score is and what their resiliency score is, when I know that I have a little bit of an idea what's, you know, what. What I'm kind of headed towards. But if they a score is nine, you know, we've got some pieces that we need to help them uncover. If they haven't done any work around it, you know, I'm astounded that the school systems don't know their ACE scores of their children and medical practices don't know their ACE scores. It's like fundamental in kind of knowing what may be coming down the road. So it's definitely a piece of my paperwork that I have every patient fill out.

Oh, that's amazing. I need to get better. About getting their ACE score number, we certainly probe, but I think having that objective or I guess that number can be really helpful to shine light on addressing that.

Yeah. And resiliency score, I mean, you may have a high A score if you have a high resiliency, then those are the usual people. I mean, I. The stories that I used to hear, I'm sure it's true for you as well. In practice for so long were horrific. And how some of these women were able to come out the other side. Their resiliency score was really high. So it. It can make an enormous difference in the trajectory of their health long term.

So if somebody has a high resilience is. Does that mean they're really good at pushing it down or they're good at processing all.

They had somebody at least by their side, you know, I had somebody. This a horrible story. She was put in a trash can when she was naughty and left overnight. And yeah, no, no, no. The stories that I heard Sashan would just make you want to throw up. I mean, I heard horrible things happen to my patients. And she had a teacher that she was able to confide in who really processed and helped her through. Otherwise she would have been so damaged seriously. And then, of course, people don't have high resiliency score and they have high ACE scores and they have. I mean, we know the statistics. You know, you have A score of four or more, your chances of heart disease are 165% higher. A score of four. Only four? Yeah. They've changed that dynamic now so that the questions are more than they used to be. It used to be just 10 questions, but for those of you that don't use that, it is something I would recommend in a practice that, you know what you're doing ACE scores are and help people understand what that means. And it's one of the largest studies in the history of medicine. I mean it's an ongoing study now and fortunately we know that there's a relationship between autoimmune disorders and ACE scores. We know that cancer and ACEs and autoimmune issues. We know that there's a huge correlation with many, many of the metabolic inflexible that their ACE scores were high. So it's helpful for us in practice to be able to say, hey, you know, let's look at this piece. When you know them well enough to bring that up.

I'm curious, kind of in the same vein of trauma and childhood experiences. I'm curious if you've ever encouraged or utilized or explored or researched plant medicines at all and what your thoughts are on that.

I was wondering if you're going to bring that up. So my son is a chiropractor in Seattle and he went to Peru for five months and he was very involved with the shamans in ayahuasca. He's the one that came back and said mom, you really need to kind of explore this. And we now know that psilocybin is used in many medical facilities for those people that are end stage disease. Really helping bridge the gap. Psychiatrists are starting to close their practices for using medications because it can make an enormous difference. So I'm, I'm very supportive for somebody that wants to do it to really expand on me and how do I get out of this? I used to believe I people are going to be shocked when they hear this. I used to believe years of therapy was really helpful and I started not believing that to be the case because I think we can relive that trauma only so many times and people are terrified of doing that. But there are other avenues so that we can heal that trauma to take from it. Which taught us how to be amazing in many ways and go then on the other side of it so that they don't feel like, you know, the reason I am this way is because of such and such. That doesn't help any of us. It's learning how to come out the other side. And there's so many different ways to do that now. Plant medicine is one of them.

Yeah, I'm actually, I've done five meo. I've done psilocybin, I haven't done ayahuasca yet. And I'm actually going to rythmia in February. So I'm excited to see what, you know, explore what what comes of that? And, you know, in my. In the journeys that I have had, they've been very beautiful and enlightening. And, you know, from. From my experience, and everyone's experience is totally different. You know, we come face to face with our greatest fears, but we're always presented a solution. So, you know, Joseph Campbell says, in our darkest cave lives lies our most valuable treasure. And I think for a lot of people, that dark cave might be that trauma that they had as a child and. And addressing that and dissolving it and. And re. You know, processing it in an appropriate way, I think, is. Is where their treasure lies. Metabolically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and how they can show up for the. For the world and their family and even themselves, hands down.

There's also a woman. I don't know if you know who Maya Chatrid is. Are you familiar with?

Of course. Yep.

So she has homeopathic plants that you can actually purchase, and she has ayahuasca, she has San Pedro, and she has mushrooms in her homeopathics that you can purchase. So that's a very gentle way, if somebody's interested in introducing it, perhaps to some patients or even in themselves, to see what that's like and that experience is like as well. It's doesn't really change your behavior. It just. It does connect you more with spirit. There's no question about that. Or kind of the universe or the bigger world in that way. So.

Yeah, I believe they're called quantum drops.

Quantum drops is what they're called. Y.

All right. Yeah, we'll have to check them out. I did interview Maya on the drops.

Oh, yeah.

To be totally transparent, I haven't tried them yet. But now you've further piqued my interest to try them out.

Well, I did, and I started using them in January, and I'm. I'm floored at the subtleness of. Of the connection with. With the universe in a different way. It's really quite interesting, and it's very subtle. I mean, obviously, we're having a normal conversation today, and it is something I refer some of my patients to as well, especially people that have some mild depression. It just is really interesting because it really helps them go a little deeper into some of the pieces to the puzzle.

I love that. I knew we'd have a wonderful conversation. I'm curious, is there anything that you'd like to talk about that I haven't asked you yet today?

No, I just. I hope that people that are listening are intrigued enough to really take on what you and I are talking about. And to go out into the world and do what we've been doing is to make a difference because we need you. We need more and more people that are becoming educated about how to do this in a different way to heal the planet, because we have a very sick population right now.

What are you most excited about this coming year?

Well, I'm actually taking my program nationally. I just partnered with someone and we're. We've got some amazing things that are happening that are just falling into my lap. So it will be very, very interesting to how. How this kind of happens, kind of next step. So I did.

I'm.

I'm excited about doing that.

Amazing. Well, I'm here to support you in any way I can.

Thanks.

And how can. My pleasure. How can people learn more about your work? How can people.

Sure.

Explore the work that. The work that you're doing. And if. If somebody's listening to this and wants to come in as a patient, I'd love to let them know that, too.

So I have a website, marcelpick.com and I have over 2, 000 blogs that I've written actually, since 2001 every week. So lots of information about functional medicine there as well. And if people are interested in becoming a patient, they can certainly go online and do a consult with me. That's free.

Amazing. Well, thank you, Marcel. Thank you so, so much for being here and, and the work that you do and for sharing so openly. You know, for. For those of you listening, check out Marcel's work. If the you enjoyed her kind of vibe and her energy and her authenticity today, I know you'll love the work that she's doing. And if you ever see her at an event, mind share. Do you go to a 4M? Are you going to a 4M this year?

I'm not going. Are you going? Yeah.

No, no.

Everybody is going.

I've never been, so I. I swore I wouldn't travel in December, so I, I kind of kept my word to myself, but it seems like a lot of people are going, but, you know, so I'm sure you've been before. I know you go to a lot of events, so if you ever see Marcel there, walk up to her, tell her about this episode that we had together, pick her brain a little bit. She's got a lot of valuable nuggets to share. And once again, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Appreciate you. And until we meet again, my friend.