How A Backcountry Trip Can Change Your Life And Practice with Chris Kelly

Hello, my friends, and welcome to Perfect Practice. Today we have a very special guest, a brother of mine, somebody who's made a stark impact on my life in such a positive way. Somebody who has influenced me to fall back in love with nature and all that it has to offer and has shown me sides of myself that I didn't know existed. Today I have my friend, my outfitter friend, my out outdoors mentor, a personal friend of mine and guide in so many ways, Chris Kelly from Driftwood Paddle. Chris, thanks for being here today.

My pleasure. Thanks for the warm invite, the warm intro, and I would say that you've had a stark impact on myself as well and in how I, how I see life and how I am empowered to, to take control of my health and just my life in general. So it's a pleasure.

Awesome, man. Well, I just want to give people some context, so I'll start by sharing a little bit about how we met. We actually met on a camping trip out in Algonquin, which you and your brother were the outfitters for, through Driftwood. And I was invited to go there through a mutual friend of ours. Don't. And I had no idea what to expect. I had never done anything, you know, like this going into the back country and I felt like, you know, a total stranger in many ways out there. But it's. You pretty quickly remember, so it's almost a remembering process. But I remember kind of going there timid and I wouldn't say fearful, but just really not knowing what value I would add. And you and your brother always seemed to find a way to, to make everyone chip in a meaningful and positive way so nobody was left out and feeling like they didn't contribute. So your brother Kieran and yourself led a group of, I believe it was around 16 men at that point on a two, three day trip. And it was just a fantastic experience. And it was so great that the year after that I brought a group of my friends back out and you hosted us and took us in the backcountry. And again, another amazing experience. So that's how we know each other very intimately. Of course, we've broken bread. You've been to our house a few times and it's always a pleasure to have. You're such a wonderful influence on myself, Deepa, and also Devin. So thanks for playing such an important role in our lives.

Brother. Thank you. And it's funny because we speak about having these two experiences together and I often reflect on how little we spend time with people that are important to us. And so you know, on paper, we've spent a lot of time together. You might catch up with your parents or a best friend for a few hours or for a dinner. But yeah, it's also very magnified when you're in the backcountry in. In a small unit and over. Over multiple days.

Yeah, I think that multiple days thing is key. Like the first date, first time I went, it was three days, two nights, and then we did four nights, five days the second time. And that. That was really amazing. Like you, I really felt those last two days is where a lot of transformation took place. And had it not been for that last day, we wouldn't have seen the sun the entire time. So it was pretty amazing to get to witness that coming out. Now, some of you listening might be wondering, why the heck are we talking about outfitting and being outdoors? And why are we talking about backcountry camping? What does that have to do with growing a business? Well, as many of you know, our philosophy at Perfect Practice is that your business can never grow bigger than you. And you're like the trunk of a tree, and your business is a branch coming off of that tree. So if you want to grow the branch which represents all the different areas in your life, if you want to grow all of them, you got to grow yourself first. And part of that process occurs when we kind of disconnect and go back to, you know, the essence of who we are. We tend to forget that, you know, there's a. If you're watching this video, you'll notice there's a stark contrast between my background and Chris's background. And we were kind of laughing about it before we started this recording because I'm like, dude, like, you've got this, like, beautiful fireplace with this wood burning fire behind you, and I've got my lightsabers. What people can't see is I've got this beautiful forest on the other side of this melanator. But it's just kind of interesting to see the energy coming off of that space is very different as well. So what I found, you know, being in the back country and certainly we didn't have a cozy fireplace like this, but we built an even more cozy fire and started it with our bare hands. And it was like, so fun to be able to do that. You learn a lot about yourself and you learn a lot about building team, and you learn a lot about, you know, digging deep. And these are all skills that we need as entrepreneurs. So, Chris, I'd love for you to share perhaps from Your experience, you know, having guided hundreds of people, entrepreneurs, students, you know, you know, young children. I'd love for you to share. What are some of the transformations that you see in people that you feel may be applicable to one's health or to one's business?

Yeah, a few that come to mind. I remember the first time I really realized that our trips were transformational. Not just in the back country, but there's a golden thread that you can take home. And this was on a five day tomogamy trip. It was two women that we were recommended by, by their partners who had rented off us and just liked our vibe. And on day two, it had been mostly overcast and rainy. At this point. We were paddling and it was a good paddle, it was a good stretch of paddling. And the lady I was paddling with said, I'm not going to ride the subway the same. And I was like, where did that come from? Tell me more. And she's like, your trips are transformational. And I was like, whoa, what? And yeah, that was like an epiphany for me or a realization that there's this golden thread that you can take back. And so as I dive deeper into the philosophy of, of what we do, people are able to rewrite stories on these trips. There's these, these barriers that we put up for ourselves that I can't do this because of this. I, I need to do this first to do that, et cetera. We all can relate in some way, but when you get into the back country, you're leaping over these obstacles that, that are layered on top of each other. Whether it be, I never thought I would sleep in a tent, I never thought I would paddle in the wild. I never thought I'd be. Find myself in the wild, and I never thought I'd find myself in the wild feeling alive and comfortable and kind of connected to it all. And so you start to think about where are these other thought patterns coming up in my day to day? And the mind starts having a different voice in there being like, no, I could do that or why can't I do that? And that, that's the biggest one in terms of like on the individual being able to take that home and, and don't, and not saying I can't, knowing that you did and that you am, you are.

You know, one, one of the things that we experience when we go into the back country is there's no phones, right? There's no service, there's no electronics, there's no screens, there's no Artificial light. And it doesn't. It. It kind of takes like a day or two for that to sink in. Because the first day, if you've never done something like this, you're just kind of finding your footing. And the day kind of seems like it's going in slow motion in some way because you're learning so much and absorbing so much, and so you're so present to this new environment that you're in. And a lot of times at home, we're just in our comfort zone. We're in our familiar space, so we don't really pay attention to all the details. But when you're in a new environment, you've got to pay attention to everything, like what you're stepping on or, you know, if there's a branch that's poking out, or, you know, if there's somebody that's walking or carrying something. You've got to be mindful because you can't even be. You can't afford to get hurt. Right. Like, you twist your ankle and you're now a liability, right, to the whole group. So every detail matters. And that environment really brings you present into that moment. And that's something that we may have a hard time doing if we're in a consistently familiar environment all the time. So I did find that it did help me create these new neural networks or patterns or ways of thinking, and it brought me into that present moment for an extended period of time. Right. You're almost like in this constant flow state, if you will, because you have to be so present to what you're doing.

Yeah, well said. And thanks for sharing. When you're out there, you're. You're a different person entirely. There's so much onboarding of these skills that we, we have from being hunter and gatherers for 99.9% of our existence. And so navigating portages, you might think, like, that's, that's scary. And the mind creates, again, a story of how difficult it will be. But then you navigate it with ease and great tact. And maybe you feel a root under your feet and you adjust and then you're kind of surprised, like, oh, wow, like, I got this. And it's amazing how we adapt. And then in terms of like, the tech, etc. And you're really breaking an autopilot, which is a massive thing. And I think about it as.

You'Re.

Driving down a highway and you're. You need to get somewhere, or you think you need to get somewhere and there's an exit coming up and you're talking to yourself, do I need to stop there? You're talking to the people in the car. Are we stopping there? And before you know it, you pass the exit and you're going to the next one. Coming on a trip like this is taking the exit, pulling out the map and being like, where are we? Where do I want to go? Do we want to go back there? Do we want to take a side road? Is there a reason why we're in such a rush? And gaining that space, that distance from distractions allows this intense presence. And from that place, so many insights come in. There's so much gratitude that opens up. There's so much learning that can take place. And one other thing, just about tech, which I like in terms of transformation, is like, we take high school kids out and how can we ever remove these kids from their phone? Is this societal idea, we take them out? First couple days, they might say something. Maybe it's just even the first day. They're actually pretty chill. But they might bring it up. First couple days, if they're out for two, three, four days. So many times they don't want to see their cell phone when they get back. They don't want to receive all that Instagram messages, everything, emails, et cetera. And so you really see, like, the shift in someone that's, like, very blatant. I don't want to give up my phone to. I don't want to see my phone.

I think I certainly know that feeling because we didn't have our phones with us. You certainly. I think you had a satellite phone in case there was an emergency. And I think we did have a slight. We didn't have an emergency, but didn't I have to call Deepa or something? Like, wasn't there like this. I can't remember why I thought I had to call Deepa because I forgot to tell her something. But we. And we had to decide if we were going to call or not.

Oh, true. I might have sent an email back to Kieran and then she. And then he forwarded on. It's slipping my mind now. Yeah, but that is a possibility with the Garmin. Yeah.

So it was cool because we could still, in case of an emergency, if we needed to get a message back to our families. So we were still being responsible with this process. But you're, like, in the middle of everywhere and nowhere at the same time. And certainly, you know that place, like the back of your hand and not having that screen and that. That connection, like that instantaneous connection to the rest of the world, we're over. Connected in a way. Felt really liberating. And when you get back, you're like, I don't wanna.

I don't.

I want nothing to do with this. Like, how do I. How do I go back to the way it was? And I remember when. When we came back from our first trip, Brijesh and I, we were like, man, we just rode three hours to get back to this car. And it's three hours to drive home. And as much as I miss my family, I almost feel like pedaling back in for. Paddling back in for three hours instead of driving for three hours because it was such a magical experience. So it does change you in so many ways. It makes you tough, it softens you. It makes you appreciate. I mean, there was an incident where. Or a string of time where we hadn't seen the sun. It was, like, cloudy the whole time, and we saw some blue, but it was rare to actually see the sun. And that one time when it broke out, it was like 15 minutes and we hadn't seen the sun in five days. It was just a completely magical experience. And, you know, as a. As an entrepreneur and as somebody who has control of our environment, a lot of the time, it was wonderful to see what happens when we don't have control of our environment. Like, we can't just turn on the light switch when we want to. And when it happens in nature, how much more appreciative you are of that process. Something that most people would take for granted, we would take for granted on any other given day, but it comes out for 15 minutes and it brings tears to our eyes. So there's. There's something to be said about that too, quite literally.

And that will be one of my favorite memories forever. On a five day, like, we had pretty overcast weather, you know, some substantial rain, and we were like sunflowers. When that sun came out, we didn't say a word. I remember you and I took off our shirts and we're just like, into the sun for like, 15 minutes until it closed. And then I remember Aaron took photos during that and after that. And, like, the smiles on our faces, it was. Yeah, it really was fulfilling and so much gratitude. And I remember also what. The one night where we got, like, 10 minutes of stars when we were paddling in and just sitting out in the middle of the lake. And we were tired of the big day on the water and. But just like, talk about reverence. Talk about awe and wonder.

Yeah. One of the things I Love for you to share Chris is when people keep coming back, what changes you see in them? It's almost like I would equate this to almost like a plant medicine type of journey. And the plants are the, all the plants you see around you, the trees, the forest. Right. So it's a slightly different form of plant medicine and certainly you can stack on other plant medicines should you choose to and get even more immersed in the experience. But it is, it is kind of ceremonial and it's almost like it, it calls you back. So I'd love for you to share what happens to people who come maybe consistently or every couple of years. What changes and shifts do you see in them?

Well, I really feel like nature is a living thing and so like you're building a relationship with it and it's also a reflection of your relationship with yourself and so you're deepening your relationship with yourself as well to speak more directly. People are just coming out more themselves. You know, they're, they're, they're feeling more grounded. They are like especially with families and we can speak into that. The depth of connection with a family is, is fairly profound. After I feel like I told. I call it from tangled to team. I feel like I don't think very often families lose love. I think that unconditional love is always, is always there. But it's like sifting through these like again these stories of, and things that have gone on said and like in a stressful environment, you know, you might be busy with work and the child didn't, you know, feel supported when they got a bad mark on a test and you might have totally overlooked that. And so whatever's going on in the child's mind and vice versa in other ways we know like the complex dynamics of a family and you get back there and everyone's feeling supported, everyone's learning something new from doesn't matter what your age is. Like dad's learning something new and the eight year old daughter can be like hey, try paddling this way. And so she's finding her voice. Everyone's accomplishing something together. And so all these again these stories of like I don't feel like they understand me, I don't feel like they get me is all like kind of washed away and diluted and, and from it is the, these beautiful plants of, of community, of love, of this unconditional love rising through and that's the main thing and that gets transferred back to life where life gets a little more stressful. I don't know if I Want to tell mom this or I don't know if I can, if I want to tell you, talk to my kids about this. Where you draw on these memories of this support, this team cohesion and you ultimately trust in the family unit which then downstream leads to so much growth and everyone grows in the directions that they want to and not fearing what the other person's going to say because there is that rooted trust. So in terms of families coming back, I mean that's one trip with a family, but families coming back, that deepens one on one. I mean you can speak to it. I, I love the fact that like you're so open and vulnerable with your shares. How you said like I didn't know what to do. You know what I'm used to being, you know that the head of my company and commanding a room and being a leader and in the backcountry, I didn't know what to do. So I started collecting firewood to, to be useful, to be, to contribute, to feel fulfilled. And then fast forward to trip two, you were looking for like day one, looking for the lighter pack. Then day, day three, you're looking for, you're just grabbing any pack and day five, you're grabbing the heaviest pack. And so these are the transformations that come home with you. You know, like it the where the mind says I don't want to do that now you're like, give me that.

Yeah, that was, that was an interesting like self reflection and observation. So just to give people context, portaging is where you canoe across different a lake. And then these lakes are at different levels, there are different sea levels. So between one lake and the next, there's a difference in, in, in sea level, which means there's usually a waterfall or some sort of stream that you either can't paddle up or down. And so you have to take your, all your equipment out of your canoe and carry the canoe on your back. And then we have these, these packs and this is where our food and our equipment and everything goes. And some of them can range for as little as 40 pounds, all the way up to 80, maybe even some of them close to what felt like a hundred pounds. And so you know, when, when you get off the boats, you just empty everything out and it's just like all these bags that need to be carried. And, and so for me, the first day I'm like, I'm praying. I hope I get the light one. I hope I get the light one. And then, and then I would be like, you know, then I would want the heavier one, I would just take whichever one came to me. And then I said, that's the luck of the draw. And then towards the end, I'm like, I want the heavy one. Like, I'm going to. I'm going to carry that one. Because what I couldn't do, and there's a lesson here, is what I couldn't do is I couldn't carry the canoe on my back because the way the yolk would sit on my neck just made it super uncomfortable. And so whereas for other people, it. It seemed to just, like, fit them like a. Fit them like a glove. So for me, I just couldn't get comfortable with the canoe. So I'm like, let me. Let me carry the heaviest bag. That'll be my contribution. And to go back to the. The first trip when I got there, because I had never done anything like this. And some of the other gentlemen there had, perhaps their parents had taken them on trips like this or they had, you know, gone on school trips. But I had never done anything like this because my parents were not very outdoorsy. So when I get there, as you said, like, in my. When I'm in my home court, I feel like I'm in, you know, command, right? I know where everything is. I know what buttons to push, and, you know, I can. I made this joke. I'm like, man, my funnels aren't going to save me out here. Like, I'm in trouble. I better learn how to, like, be useful.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's no, like, landing page that I can build or be of any value to what's happening here right now. So I felt like, you know, in one environment, I could be very useful and where people pay me for to know what I know. And then in another environment, I'm like. I felt completely in. You know, I felt like I didn't have any value. But what I realized is that there's always ways to add value. There's always, you know, some. Some stuff looks heroic, like starting the fire, but there's no fire without firewood, right? So everyone plays a role, no matter how big or how small or how glorious or how not glorious. And I think that was, like, one of my big takeaways from that.

Massive. Massive. Yeah, it's. It's pretty empowering to be disempowered and to be humbled and then to. To find a way to. To contribute and. And ultimately find fulfillment. Because, you know, pulling a tree down, that's. That's dead. You know, finding dead branches or Dead fall, putting it on the fire and directly feeling the heat and directly experiencing, like a warm meal cooked by that is pretty primal. And in today's life, with a lot of things, like a lot of efforts being not really fully realized, not so tangible, that it's nice to have that satisfaction of seeing that, you know, your efforts are. Are not in vain. And they, they. Everything that you do put energy into provides energy.

It's really cool because, you know, one of my goals is to get my team out there. And I know we've had private conversations about where some of the friction is with that, and I'm pretty transparent, so I'll share it. So, you know, our. We have women on our team, and one of the things that you do when you go backcountry camping is you have to poop in a thunderbox. So it isn't a fancy toilet. There's no, like, squatty, potty type situation. And so for some people, that could be the very thing that stops them from experiencing the magic of what nature has to offer. So we're working on my wife. We're chipping away at her to overcome that internal objection that she has. And so it's kind of hilarious, but worth mentioning for a good laugh. Not to embarrass her, but it is what it is.

Right? I feel like a lot of people could relate to that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then we have members on our team that are super over the moon to get out there and do it. So we're going to get out there. That's our goal this coming year in 2024, is to come out there with the team. And I can only imagine the transformation that's going to take place as a result of that. Because what I've noticed on the trips that I've been on is that you just get closer and closer and closer and closer and you bond in ways that you never could even on a day trip. Right. Or a trip to the spa or a nice dinner out with your team, even a day together, you're not going to see a side of them that you wouldn't see otherwise. So if anyone's thinking about taking their team out there, what, what would your advice be or what would your guidance be in terms of considering that as a. As a corporate outing for people?

Yeah, definitely. I think that, you know, we're all capable of it and it's less about learning and more about remembering. The cool thing about the service that we offer is it's very low barrier, barrier to entry. We set you up with A packing list, but otherwise, like you show up with a weekend bag and we take care of the rest from, you know, top end gear. Sleeping bags, sleeping mats, tents. You're going to be warm, you're going to be cozy and dry, you know, high end canoes that are ultra light. So that if, if you do want to feel the power of and portaging, then it's definitely there for the taking. So I think, don't think about it too much. Hop on a call and you won't regret it. You know, you never remember. You know, actually people's highlights, some of them are using the facilities in the backcountry. When I've been working with yoga centers down, down south and I'm painting the picture of what it's like, I take them through a small guided meditation. I get them to close their eyes, you know, envision the sun peeking through the canopy and the call of the morning birds and the lapping of the water on the shore and you take a nice deep breath in. That's what it's like taking a poop in the backcountry.

Yeah.

And people love it.

It's like, it's like the, it's the ultimate place to go for sure. It's like the most beautiful place to go. And it's, it's the, it's all about, but it's all about the story in our head, isn't it?

That's it. It's not the problem, it's the attitude on the problem. And in terms of like benefits for, for the team, I mean, like you said, you can do these things. You can do spa days and anything. Investment in team time together is immensely beneficial. The cool thing about getting into the backcountry is that it's for the team, it's also for the individual and there's clarity that comes with it. And so first off, you're putting work aside and so you're getting to know each other as individuals, which is important because then when you go back to the boardroom and you can look someone in the eye and be like, you know, we, we handled some hard stuff together and we had a lot of fun together. There's that deep rooted connection and you can trust people. And I, I heard a great quote, when trust is in the room, great things happen and when it isn't, they don't. And so I think trust is really formed on these trips. I also think that it's a great opportunity for, for inspiration to come through. So even though you're, you're not intentionally Talking about work, that stuff will come up and be like, hey, like, I was thinking about that thing that we were working on in the future and how about this? And oh, wow. And then like, you're talking in less of like a tense environment and, and these great opportunities and these great insights come through. And because you're not in this like, environment where everyone's playing these rules, roles, people tend to find their voice a little differently. They feel more comfortable around each other, they're sharing meals, and it comes up in a more organic way. And so it can be very beneficial for the, for the business in, in general, just in drawing on everyone's genius, you know, and, and, and growing from that way. So there, there's, there's so many benefits with getting into the backcountry together as a team.

Yeah, I think the, the other thing that it, as you were sharing that, what, what came up for me is that it level, it kind of levels the playing field definitely. Because we're just going back to first principles. Right. And while there's of course, certain skills that are extremely valuable, like when I loved how you were teaching us how to tie knots, you know, it was like, so cool to see you guys put up those tents and, and, and the coverings and everything to keep us nice and dry and protect the fire from the wind. So of course there's, you know, very specific skills that of course can be learned over time and perfected over time, but there's always something that people can do. And what I think what nature does is it humbles us. And what situations like this do is creates a, an equal playground for everyone to show up however they feel called to. And there's always some. Something for people to do and contribute.

Definitely. I think a massive part about it as well is everyone's outside their comfort zone. And so like, to speak to your point, we're all, we're all on level playing field, but to be outside your comfort zone, to put down that mask, kind of forced into it, but in a very leisurely, comfortable way, you are a bit more vulnerable, but then you're feeling supported by these people that you spend time with. And that allows you to show up in the office in a completely different way. And then you're also able to support these people that might be higher or lower than you in the corporate ladder, but you realize that these titles are just titles for job reasons, but ultimately we're all just humans. And it takes a lot of this tension and stiffness out of the corporate setting and, and realize like we're all just humans that are, you know, trying our best to. To feel happy and be fulfilled. The. The one other thing, too, is. That's super cool. I heard it just yesterday on a podcast, Dr. Chatterjee podcast. And he was talking about making decisions that when we make decisions, we're either making decisions to find happiness or we're making decisions from a place of happiness. And the difference is drastic. I mean, you're either looking for something to make you feel happy, or from a place of happiness, you're making decisions about your life, which are a lot more legacy decisions. And so I think of you like, you came on the trip and you went back and you decided to give away your book for. For free, including shipping, which was something you might not have thought about before, and you restructured your sales. That was something that. That might have been something that was. Was that you might have been deliberating. But it creates this clarity. And from a. From a place of confidence, capable clarity, you just see clear and. And then you get to make decisions from that place and. And that, I feel like, really set your. Your life in a totally different trajectory.

Yeah, I can certainly say that I had a lot more clarity and certainty and confidence in my decisions because you get, you know, time to really process what's coming up without a constant stream of new distractions coming in. Especially when you're on the water for an hour or two and you're paddling and you have some time to really contemplate what it is and really feel into it, you know, because a lot of times I find that we're just distracted in our modern world. And, you know, I'd love to have you share perhaps, what are some ways for people like myself or others who are listening to this, who can't get out there as much as we'd like to? Certainly my goal is to try to do this once a year. And we're planning a winter trip to get up there because we couldn't do it this fall because of my travel schedule. But what could we do in between sessions to, you know, just locally to connect with nature? Do you have any practices that. That you want to share with us that can be helpful for us city folks that may live in. In. In areas where we don't have access to. To nature? What are some ways that we can get connected again?

Yeah, no. Great question. And we all have nature around us in some form, whether it be a plant in our house kind of deal. And so it's called a sit spot. Just going out and finding A spot that calls you, and sitting there for five minutes, being quiet, noticing part of it, closing your eyes and tuning into your other senses, heightening your sense of sound and smell and taste and feel, feeling the cool air on your face or the sun, taking that time and then opening your eyes up and, you know, kind of seeing everything in a new lens is in drastically amazing, magnificently impactful. And you can do this in other different places, which is really neat. And that's again, deepening your relationship with nature. Something. There's something special about going back to the same place. And so if you have like a local park bench or a tree going back there daily, you know, three times a week, the animals will start to get used to you. Like, don't feed them. And they'll start understanding that you're. You're. You're part of this ecosystem. And that changes things as well. You'll notice that the birds don't fly away as much. The squirrels kind of come closer, and. And then that's like a realization of like your true nature that you feel that you.

You are.

That we're animals and that we. We come from the same chemical compounds, et cetera.

And.

And that can be super liberating, super calming, super humbling. Yeah. Making a. Making a tradition, a routine of. Of doing that. Maybe bringing a cup of coffee, bringing. Bringing a tea. Very special.

What? You know, I recently saw a video of some wild things happening out in nature. And what's the wildest thing you've seen? I'm curious, because you've been out there.

Many, many times in, like, In. In terms of like, weather, in terms of animals, in terms of all of the above.

Like, what. What's the most kind of craziest, most memorable thing that's happened out there?

Damn good question. I mean, in terms of weather. Weather. I've been in a lot of different weather conditions sailing the Pacific, but in specific to the back country, like bas. I deal in metaphors. And so seeing a storm front coming across, almost bracing for it, but it passing on the distance and this noticing, hey, what? Like, why am I bracing for something that's not even here? Enjoying the sun while it's over me, and then being ready when. When the storm does come, enjoying the sun and quite literally seeing the trees just like blowing like crazy just on the other side of the lake. And I'm talking like a couple hundred meters away. That'd be. That's some crazy stuff. Having really intimate experiences with moose, you know, with Mitesh, our mutual friend. I had an amazing experience with his family. And I really felt like his wife had, like, a strong connection, a strong maternal connection to this mom and baby calf. And we spent 45 minutes with this moose. You know, we were out of the canoes, standing in the water about, say, 50ft away, and it was not phased at all. The baby was grazing. We left before it needed to leave. Those are, like, the profound things. I mean, I. I could talk about, like, swimming with sharks or whales and. Or bears in the backcountry, but I haven't had any, like, crazy experiences in that regard in terms of, like, scary stuff. Knock on wood.

Yeah. And I guess. I guess that wasn't my, my. Maybe I should have phrased the question a bit better. I guess crazy can be very loosely interpreted. But I guess, like, what's the most, like, fascinating or illuminating thing you've seen out there? I know for me, the first night we got there, we had a few of us, actually there's three of us that had this completely, totally out of body experience. And we were standing by the water's edge and the clouds were steely gray, reflecting into the lake. And just this energy washed over us. And I remember getting into kind of a squatting position and I felt like all the noise being sucked out of my body. And it was almost like there was being like an electrical rope that was being pulled out of me. And it must have been about 10 minutes of experiencing that. And all of us came out of this trance that we found ourselves in. And it wasn't just me experiencing those. There were several of us experiencing it. And we were completely sober, by the way. And we're just like, what the heck just happened? And we all looked at each other and I'm like, did you feel that? And, you know, my friend looks over, he's, heck, yeah, I felt that. Like, what was that? I'm like, I have no idea. So that was, for me, like, a very fascinating, unique experience. And what I've always also been fascinated by is how the clouds in the sky are seemingly communicating with us. And there's like this intelligence that's up there in Algonquin. And so both times on the nights home or the, the rides home, we got stunning sunsets. It was like the most amazing thing. So. So that was. I was more referring to an incident like that versus a bear attack or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. That's what often people are asking about, like, that crazy stuff.

But.

And yeah, amazing sunsets. Like, I, like, I spoke about the. I'm just way, way more in tune to things now. And so like being. I remember a friend, I was asking about this watch that I wanted to buy and I was like, should I get the barometer? And he's like, so you probably have like a built in barometer just from being out there for so long. And it kind of just like hit a switch for me. And so now I'm like more in tune with it.

And.

And I really feel like I can. Like when people say like, I feel like it's gonna rain and I'll be like, I can confidently. It's not every time, but I can be like, no, we're good right now. Not, not now. Which is, which is neat. One of the most profound stories that happened was we were guiding a high school that we've been guiding for over a decade now. We guided them through the company we previously worked for and we're guiding them now. And we facilitated on the fourth day before we headed home the following day, a sit spot where everyone just is empowered to go find a spot to themselves, leave everyone else alone and just see what comes up. And it's very unprogrammed in terms of like, ask yourself this or anything like that. Just, just take some reflection time and it's really beautiful. The, the debriefs, like from tears to just like, I saw a mouse and I'm scared of mice. But it was so cute in the backcountry, all these things. And so I usually would take that time to prep for dinner, etc. And I'm like, you know what? There's this really cool table that was jammed between two seaters and so I laid on and I looked up and I had been guiding for five years. It was before we had started Driftwood. I'd been going out west to work in the oil and gas. I wasn't fulfilled by it, but it was paying bills and, and I just felt like. It felt like groundhog year. Like I was having fun, but I wanted something more. And so I was looking up through. And this whole, this whole story came through of like that I was a sapling. And you know, you start as a sapling in a forest and you, it's all. You feel safe and you don't really know what's up, what's going on, but you see these massive trees and all these different trees and, and you don't realize, but the different trees are like, some of them are, are giving you light by dropping a branch, like giving something of themselves. Other ones are clouding over and to take away from you but because they need it. And so you're trying to navigate up. And I felt like that was like my childhood. And then you're an adolescent and you're, you start to see like the canopy above, but you still feel safe and free. Like, you don't feel the effects of the outside world, but you want to be, you want to be in this canopy. Like, what's that all about? That looks cool and, and it's fun. You know, you're strong enough. Like, you don't feel like you're going to just get trampled by an animal or whatever. Like, and then eventually you start getting into the bottom of the canopy and it gets noisy because you got all these other trees in your ear, like other humans, other adults being like, you should do this, you should do that. Da, da. And you can't really see any distance because you're just looking into the other trees. And so that's what my epiphany was, that I was in this canopy for like this number of years, but I was just continuing to grow without realizing it. And that this epiphany was that I had like shot above the canopy and I could see clearly now. And after that, Kieran and I started driftwood that fall and I just had this renewed energy towards guiding exclusively. I didn't go back to the, to the oil and gas. I was like, I'll just make it work. And so these are the realizations that come through and these are realizations that, you know, you might find coming through in a plant medicine ceremony in an intense breath work experience. And so like, I remember Majid on our trip spoke about that nature is full of infinite intelligence. And I really feel that if you open up to that, that it does come through. And I'm, I'm a, I'm a walking example. I mean, we're walking examples of it.

I love that, Chris. I love, I love for people to know that A. It's impossible to capture the experience in words. So you really have to go out there and experience it. You know, it's, it's really, it's really interesting because the days can feel long and short at the same time. The three to five days can feel long and short at the same time. And before you know it, it's over. What I would suggest is I'm giving you my personal endorsement or I'm endorsing you personally to everyone as a, as a truly a life changing companion on a trip like this because I think who you go with and who leads you through the journey is Crucially important, and this is something that I encourage every practitioner or individual listening to this to consider as a valuable team. Team building exercise, friendship building exercise, or even a way of building yourself. I know you guys host men's groups. I know you host corporate retreats. And, and you can also plan groups of friends or even individual families going together. So lots of different options. If you're listening to this, maybe it starts with just you and your family or you and a group of friends and then it turns into your team. But definitely something that I would highly, highly encourage all of you to explore. So Chris, how can, how can people get in touch with you guys? What does that process look like? Maybe you can walk us through that.

Yeah, and thanks so much for the endorsement. Means. Yeah, means the world. The best way to get a hold of us is going on our website. You'll find a form that you can fill out, just very simple and send us a message. Let us know what your dreams are, what you're envisioning. Then we love to book a call, have a zoom face to face. What's going on? What are your dreams? This is what we can offer and make sure that it's the right fit and you know, braid on the phone call, I will let you know. This is what I'm envisioning. How does this sound? And every trip is curated towards the group, towards the individual from dietary. But, but mostly like itinerary and, and yeah, the benefits of coming with driftwood is that we're all mature guides. It's my brother and I, we have two others, Troy and Craig, that work with us currently. And we all have, you know, a depth of life experience. We're all very passionate about it. And it, it, what I, the, the metaphor, the analogy I use is like you're speaking about a tree and its branches is that going into the backcountry comes with a lot of barriers and comes with a lot of things that you need to become comfortable with. And so we were the trunk of the tree. You get to climb us. And by climbing us, we take care of the two bases of the Maslow hierarchy of needs. We take care of the food, water, shelter, and we take care of the safety and security. So all of a sudden you're, you're, you're living with, focusing on love and belonging, you know, self realization, team cohesion, all these kind of things. And yeah, that, that's, that's, that's the real value that driftwood offers, you know, that care and connection and you can climb the tree that is us and then branch out and have your own experience up there without investing 20 years plus of backcountry navigation. So, yeah, send us an email, we'll hop on a call and we'll dream big.

Amazing. We'll be sure to put that email in the show notes and the website as well. Do you mind sharing it as well in case somebody can't access the show notes at the moment?

Yeah, it's Team T A M Driftwood paddle dot com.

All right, Wonderful. Chris, thank you for your time today, my friend. I want to jump through this monitor and join you in that by that cozy fire. Thanks for sharing that with us today. Let's line it up, yeah, until we see each other again in person. Lots of love to you, my friend. So looking forward to seeing you and giving you a big hug. Until then, have an awesome, awesome day. And for all of our listeners today, connect with Chris. Start mapping out what that journey might look like for you and I encourage you all to get into the backcountry even if it's not here in Algonquin or with Chris and his team. Find, find somewhere local, right, that you can get out to and enjoy nature and wilderness and you know, be wild, have fun, stay young. And you know, this earth has so much to offer us. Nature has so many lessons to offer us and I found that it's been my greatest teacher. So thank you, Chris, for kind of rekindling that flame for me and being such a great guide.

Hey, it's been my pleasure. And, and if you can't find anyone to go with, we offer trips where, you know, a bunch of strangers come on and they leave family as well as I do one on one sessions. I call it the reset. Come out, we go into the backcountry one on one and. And magic happens.

Amazing.

Thanks so much for having me. Sachin.

Yeah.

I love you like a brother. I feel like you're my brother and yeah. Say hi to David and Deepa. Happy belated to Deepa.

Thanks, my friend. Have an awesome, awesome rest of your day.

Likewise, brother.