How to Gain Trust as a Health Professional with Karl Krummenacher and Sachin Patel

So without further ado, I want to introduce my dear friend Carl Kremenacker from Mindshare. He is, as I mentioned, been a mentor to me for many, many years. Somebody who I greatly look up to and admire for his humbleness, for his intellect and for his kindness. So thank you, Carl, thanks for joining me today. Appreciate you.

Good morning, I guess good afternoon based on where you're at, but good to see you. Such, such a privilege to spend time with you. Thanks for the kind words.

Absolutely. So we're talking about trust today and as we all probably know, trust is at an all time low. Before we jump into why and what to do about it, what's your definition of trust? I'd like to start there.

Well, I'd love to ask the group. It's funny, you stole my thunder. I was going to say type in the chat what you would say is your definition of trust. Or you might reframe the question a little if it's easier. Like how do you know when to trust or who to trust? I would argue, Sachin, it's in your name. Like literally living proof is the best form of trust there is. But I think you know, as and as people type in, go ahead and type in the chat, like how do you determine trust? Because look, here's the thing. For the better part of our history on this planet, as long as there's been health professionals, trust has been hierarchical. It's been established through a system that was well defined and organized. It's very hierarchical. It required you to pay a price and to be cleared through multiple hurdles. For those of you that are physicians and who did classically trained allopathic journeys on your professional career, you know what it was like. You had to first get the grades in order to get into medical school. You had to do your time in medical school and survive that hazing and indoctrination arguably, right? And then when you got through that, you're going to do a residency and they're going to see how many all nighters you could pull without losing your shit. And then after that you've got a piece of paper on the wall and it's your license to practice this idea of healthcare. And as you probably saw over the last couple of years, it's been remarkable to see the competition for our mind and our belief and our trust. And I'm sure there's nobody on this call that hasn't at some time in the last two years especially thought, holy cow, who can you trust? And there's this competition that we see from stakeholders. Many driven by money, others driven by power. Some just for the desire to have influence. There's all kinds of confirmation bias going on everywhere. Like however you want to look at it, there's a lot of competition for our hearts and minds right now. So how do you cut through? What do you do if you're a health professional and everybody is saying you can only trust this guy or you can only trust that girl, or you can only trust this system. Right. Have you, has anybody, I'm just curious, have you been struggling a little bit? Have you noticed that it's gotten a little bit harder? Just say it's gotten harder in chat just so I could get a sense of how many of you felt it or I felt it, but I have felt it and I've seen our members feel it. So I think that's it. Sachin. It's like right now we're at this incredible point in history where everybody has a voice and yet there are so many echo chambers that their voices are getting drowned out. And being able to cut through the clutter is getting super important. But the good news is there's a model that makes that not only possible, but profitable and really better for everybody involved.

Yeah, I love that. And you can see some of the, the answer, the responses that are coming in. You know, a lot of people said integrity, proximity was another one. For some people, they indicate it just feels right, you know, and I think there's a lot to be said about that. Right. Just tapping into our intu. However, one of the things that we also recognize that it's getting harder because, you know, now everyone's got a megaphone. So how do you differentiate yourself? How do you build that trust faster? Which is, you know, kind of my next question, you know, what has led, in your opinion, to trust being at.

An all time low combination of things. As much as I'd love to, you know, lay it at the feet of all of the special interests, whether they're political or business interests. I think a big part of it is social media and the fact that today everybody has learned how to manipulate our happy hormones. And there are algorithms that exist specifically to keep you engaged. Taking your drug of choice and continually dosing that drug, flicking through Instagram or TikTok, and there's conditioning that goes on and what you, what you see, I mean, there's, there's going to be. I really would love to be here in a hundred years and see how this period of history winds up getting deconstructed and what they do to identify this period of time that we've gone through and how as people we succumbed to manipulation. And whether that manipulation is direct from the source or it's a conspiracy theorist or it's a wise, you know, individual. Everybody is, is, is vying for control everywhere. And there's a, there's a great book written years ago. I don't remember if the author was, I don't think it was Harry Dent, but the book was called Pendulum and it talked about the swings that societies go through between collectivism and individualism and how during those swings there could be periods of high volatility. And I think we're in one of those times where we've come, you know, we're approaching an apex of collectivism and there's a lot of people who are then advocating for what that collective needs to be. So would say that it's confusion. I think it's the fact that there aren't enough deep relationships. We've been isolated for two years. We haven't been able to actually go out. Many of us have been locked in our homes, unable to go and get the senses that activated that are typically used to have a good intuition. I mean, what kind of intuition can we have right now in two dimensional plane? So, you know, I think that those are the things that just come to my mind and I think it's just a perfect storm of all of that that has made it dramatically harder.

Yeah, it's really tough nowadays because even some of your trusted sources, people that you've trusted pre pandemic and over the last many, many years, their voices are getting shut down so they can't fully express themselves the way they would have to even build your trust to begin with. And so their voices are getting drowned out or you know, deplatform. Many people that like sayergy or G, for example, someone who many of us trust with trusted information that is very evidence based, especially with this green med info work. You know, people like that get deplatforms. So now who are we left to trust? That's kind of the scary thing. Now I know that yourself at the mindshare community, along with JJ and so many other amazing people, you know, this is a big thing because you're working with many influencers and you know, you've been, we've been spending a lot of time kind of deconstructing this and figuring out what, what's working, what isn't working, how to make it work better. And you know, you've come to a conclusion that trust is probably one of the most important assets that we have in our business, more important than our lead magnets, more important than our SEO. It's like how much do people trust us? Because at the end of the day, people do business with people they know, love and trust and ultimately it's, they can know you and they can love you, but if they don't trust you, then they're not gonna, you know, put, put in their information or they're not gonna take that, that next and final step. So what are some of the things that. I know there's a whole weekend that you've planned around teaching people this, which we'll talk about in a minute. But what are some high level touch points? I always love having you pre event because I know that you give it, you give people a little kind of a sneak peek on some of the things that we're gonna be diving into. But what are some things that you can offer, some nuggets that you can offer people?

Well, the first thing is let's just go back to what you said earlier for a moment and talk about deplatforming because that's really in censorship because that's certainly scary. I talked about this, I think two conferences ago at the beginning of the pandemic. I did a keynote and it had to do with indoctrination and the idea that there are forces at play that only want you to think a certain way. And as you went through it, one of the key things that people like that use in order to gain control is disintermediation. It's this idea that we're going to detach the provider from the patient that we are going to. And it started with insurance. Well, first it was Medicare, Medicaid in the United States. The federal programs came in and said, doctors, you no longer have to do charity work. We're going to pay for it. And doctors went, thank you, that's super awesome, I'll take it. And then, and then there became a commercial insurance industry that said, hey, we're going to reduce the risk of patients not being able to pay. Everybody get kick in a little, you know, it's, it's a social construct and, but we'll all share and it'll level out the bumps. And we got insurance. And then soon providers were completely disintermediated from their patients because the people in the middle controlled the money. And when they controlled the money, they controlled the outcome that they wanted. And then that happened. And then all of a sudden we got into web 2.0. We all became creators we all got to go out and create content and share ideas. Twitter, you could blog in 140 characters on Facebook, you can not only connect with your friends and family, but you could start to actually have a voice and share an idea and you could get a conversation going. That was the whole idea is it became the virtual water cooler. Platforms have popped up and you would think that with the diversity of those platforms that there would be little risk that our first amendment rights in the United States anyway being able to freely express our ideas would ever be censored. But then they were. And part of this has to do with risk mitigation legitimately. Who is responsible if somebody gets harmed on a platform? Everybody's pointing fingers, but ultimately what's happened is we became disintermediated from each other and these platforms now sit between us and the people that we're most connected with. And as a result they have a whole lot of say in what we say and we're seeing behaviors change dramatically. Add to that cancel culture and this idea that, you know, the most offended wins, it's just again, the perfect storm. So what are we going to do about this? Here's what's cool. I'll start with the highlight. And the key takeaway is we've watched people over the last two years as we've had this social experiment going on and business experiment, which in our position with 20,000 members in mindshare, we get a unique visibility into what's going on and what's working and what's not working. And we've watched individuals that had incredible pedigree, the best credentials that you could imagine by any measure top of their game, struggle and fail. And some even have to get loans, facing bankruptcy literally can't do business. And we've watched others who aren't credentialed, may not even be MDs or DOs or DCs health coaches, for example, actually grow and build sizable six figure businesses even without technology, without funnels, without paid ads, without any of it. And you're like, how did you do that? What did you do different? And I think the key takeaway is that in each of these cases they've kind of moved up this, you know, if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of need and you know, the most core need you have is, you know, survivability, food and water. There's this similar ascension that goes on with health professionals I think is and businesses in general as they get positioned in marketplace at the bottom of that. And Simon Bowen talks about this really well. There's this idea that you're a vendor. And I think of the, the dentist who says, you know, fillings for only 49.95 work at the chiropractors adjustments only 49.95. They instantly became a vendor. And their product is evaluated by price. And a lot of practitioners are in this place classically trained because it's like how much is an office visit, how much is a test? So that's the vendor that's at the very core. The next ascension up, you'd probably call a thought leader. And a lot of people in mindshare lived in this place. These are people who are really coming up with new ideas, new concepts, are trying to stay out. And what do they do every day? They work on content, their content, content, content all the time. Establishing their voice as a place to go and listen. We think here of perhaps Joe Mercola be a great example. Dr. Joe Mercola. That's all about information. And the people that put out the most information, that sees the most eyes, wins. And so everybody thought, well, that's what I got to do. I got to become a content marketer and go crazy. But if you think about it, the next level up of that, there's plenty that have tons of content. There's hundreds of health, you know, thousands of health websites that have millions of viewers that don't really move the needle in terms of impact. They're not helping people get well, and they're definitely not facilitating relationship. It's just information. You can get information from any news site. Next level up, where there's this projection of strength and effectiveness is where they become heroes. We know many people in our community that are heroes. They've revolutionized a protocol or a treatment. They've weaned people off of medications. They've done truly heroic things by being a voice of reason in the marketplace, and they've even been even at the clinical setting. You see heroes that emerge and people will say, you've got to go see this doctor. He fixes everything. You've got to go work with this coach or this practitioner. They're really good at X, Y and Z and they're held out as a hero. Obviously better than vendor and better than just being a thought leader, right? Here's what's remarkable. What most people don't understand is that many consumers will not work with the hero in this ascension because there's no room for them to become the hero if somebody already occupies that step. But as soon as the hero goes to guide, goes to sage, think obi Wan think Yoda there. The whole dynamic changes. Yoda and Obi Wan were not the hero in the story with Star Wars. They were the guide. They were the trusted guide. And there was a whole different energy and dynamic that occurred that resulted in Luke and others finding their footing and going on to greatness. That's what your consumers want. And so we're seeing that those practitioners who figured out how to package who they were as the trustworthy guide in this journey, how to then package their services. That's congruent in a way with being a trusted guide and not starting to appear like a vendor or appear just merely as a thought leader and then promote it in the lowest of tech ways, by the way. I mean, literally, people are doing six figures in a month with a Venmo account as the most technical part of the whole thing. No funnels, a PDF and a Venmo account. Six figures, no tech, nothing complex. So we're going to be talking about that this weekend. We're going to be breaking down the fact that when you can focus on models in your business instead of focus on you, that you could bring the focus to a model, a protocol that you do, and take the focus off of you. But you are positioned as you teach and train your models as the guide, the relationship changes. Suddenly, the clinical experience that you've gained over years of doing what you do or various success stories that you have can be repositioned in a way that set you up for relationship with your prospects, with your ideal client and the guide as you walk them through the model, which gives them the key here, an opportunity to take the hero position in their own story, which is going to mean more compliance, which is going to be more engagement and better outcomes.

I love this. So this kind of reminds me of the Donald Miller model. And I know you did a training on this, which we've also adopted that philosophy of, you know, positioning the client as the hero. And so I kind of wrote down, the vendor is a commodity, right? They're trying to sell you something. The thought leader is providing information or maybe even disinformation, depending on how the media spins it. The hero. If we're positioned as a hero, there's no room for somebody else to ascend into that role. And they're always, I mean, in order to be saved by a hero, you have to be a victim, right? And that kind of predisposes you to be in that positioning. Whereas if we position ourselves as the guide, it allows them to be the hero. And the analogy that I Like to use is kind of climbing a mountain, right? So if you hire a guide to help you climb Mount Everest, they're not going to take a picture of themselves at the top. They're going to take a picture of you when you get to the top, and they're going to be there to document that for you.

So.

So, yeah, I love this framework, and it's powerful to see it as you put it in the context of trust. Because I think a lot of what we offer people here as clinicians is getting people to trust themselves, not just trust us. They have to trust us initially, but then at the end of the day, they've got to learn how to trust themselves and be that hero for themselves. And then hopefully, they can be that hero for other people in their family as well, lift them up in the process.

One of the things that struck me as we were refining this model with Simon was that the guide is not responsible for the outcome and the heroes responsible. Remember that in any story, if you embrace Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, Donald Miller story brand, that heroes all struggle with conflict. Why do we want to have any conflict? We are not the place of conflict. We are the place that people in conflict come to to get out of the conflict, to get a clear path. Remember that the guide's role is to do two things, really. The guide needs to have a clear plan. They need to know. Your analogy was great. They got to know how to navigate the mountain, but they don't promise that there won't be obstacles along the way or it won't be difficult to climb. But they're there to help you through those periods of time where it's difficult to climb and will always be the hero's option to continue to take the journey. But this doesn't reflect on the guide in any way. If the hero says, I'm out or I'm not on a climb anymore. And I think too many times we get so wrapped up in the idea that it's our job to create the outcome for the. For our patients, for our clients. But that's really not the case. It's our job to uncover the healing opportunities. It's our job to help them navigate. But you really have two things to do as a guide, and that is shine a spotlight on the path and walk them through that path. And the other most important one is to call them to action. Because here's something that a lot of people in our community struggle with. When I heard this, it was the big aha moment. And that's this healing cannot start for the hero in your story, until a sale is made, it's not possible because the sale represents the commitment to take the journey with the guide. And if they're not prepared to take a journey, they're not going to start healing. So selling is not something to be avoided here. In fact, you know, I think of it as I think of the sale. You know, mindshare is all about a rising tide lifts all boats. In our case here, we're raising a sail so that you can catch the wind and go on the journey. And. But that's the key thing. So this idea of calling people to action, of asking them to say, look, I want to help you. I know I can. I can help with this trip. I know that I can be your guide. I know that together we're going to overcome the obstacles, and I got you. That's what people want. But there's an art to doing it right. And if you think about the clinical journeys that so many of you have already been on, and you think about your experience, I would far rather go to the surgeon. If I'm getting Lasix, for example, I don't care about the degrees on the wall, I don't care what he's been certified on. I want to know, how many trips did you take up that mountain in the last month? Are you current in your journeys? And the fact that you're taking these journeys every day with patients, even one or two, it doesn't need to be thousands of. But that. That's what you do all day, every day. That is where your trust is going to come from. The fact that you've helped many people through the journey of health, not that you necessarily got the outcome, but that you were trusted along the way and that you did your role as a guide, I think that's a massive, massive reposition. It resets expectations. It avoids the inherent conflict of ideas. Right. We're not going to be now any longer debating, you know, this versus that. Like, if we bring the focus to the trip, the model, the protocol, and we, we take the focus away from ideology and instead say our role is helping you on this journey. And there's a way to, to package you as a practitioner that actually comes off credible, regardless of how many letters you've got behind your name, and then there's an effective way, you know, to promote that doesn't require ad spends, doesn't require funnels, doesn't require, you know, when you're starting. Now, look, here's the thing. You need to get to the, we all want to get to the place where we scale, but where this all breaks down. And this is what we learned last year. You might recall, Sachin, we did a strategic practitioner program. And the idea of that program was that and still is, it's a great program. 200 people have gone through that. And it was, look, we want to help you take that next step to get some leverage in your business. So we'll help you create your first sale leverage sale online. And here's what we learned in that. And we're always learning. And what we learned as we taught people, this is. They got stopped when it was, well, who am I and who do I serve and what is my niche? You know, we many times like, well, I can help anybody. I can help with this, I can help with this, I can help with that. There's an art to narrowing your focus just right so that you can connect with your ideal clients. And we'll help you understand how to even know will it fly? Is there an audience large enough, are they reachable so that you can get a foothold on your journey? Because remember, we are going to be your guides. So we practice this like this is meta, meta. But we practice being the guide and helping our practitioners take those first steps and validate their market positioning before they go off and create courses, before they spend a lot of time, you know, working on their big grand idea without even knowing if it'll work. JJ is without question the queen at this, where she will have an idea, have a concept, and then come up with a minimum viable process to test it, to market it, to invite people, and then co create. And we're going to talk about that too, how when you start out, if you're early on the journey, you can actually co create the path with the hero that you're guiding. That could be something that you collaborate on. And for those of you that are further along in your business, you're established, but you're looking for scale or growth. How before you do anything new, this is the litmus test, the will it fly test to properly package and position so you don't mess up a good thing that's going and that you can effectively can keep going. Sorry, going too long myself, but I think you get the idea.

No, it's fantastic. And you're definitely on a roll here, so I didn't want to, you know, cut you off, but I did want you. I know you have another meeting that you've got to attend, so I want to be sensitive to your schedule as well. And so grateful and so appreciative. So many AHAs, as many people are indicating in the chat here. And you know, just to highlight what you said, you know, it's, it's ultimately the person's responsibility to create the outcome. Right. And the coach or the guide in this case, as we're positioning ourselves, is there to help identify the blind spots. Is there, you know, to, to make sure that we're not missing anything as we're going on this journey. Is there to, you know, tell us, hey, here are the things that you need to prepare to go on this trip. And I've done this 100 times. Here's, here's why you need, you know, you should trust me. And you don't have to say it. Right. Just the way you show up your swagger is, is going to indicate that. But definitely it helps to highlight that. Right. And let people know that we've walked this path with many people before. And I think the other thing too is like that, having that humility. So there's a, you know, definitely a change in our kind of self perception and ego that needs to take place as well when you go from a hero to a guide because those are two different, you know, self images as well that we need to have. And the humility comes when we know, position ourselves as a guide. And that's one of the things I deeply admire about you is, is, is that humility. I know we could talk for an entire weekend, which is something that you and JJ will be sharing with us. Let's do that upcoming event. Yeah. So maybe you can in the next couple minutes because I know you do have to run. And we'll, we'll drop a link. We've already have shared this, but we'll drop another link. For those of you that were sitting on the fence. You can see why I'm so excited about this event and to be part of the mindshare community. But maybe you can give us some highlights on what people can expect.

First thing that you can expect is to feel supported and seen and heard. We've got so much respect for your community. This group of incredible talented practitioners go givers, I think all. And so that's number one. It's a safe place and it's a collaborative place and it's probably the only place that you're going to find MDs and DOs and DCs and health coaches and FDNs and every possible combination of healer collectively on the same page. Super cool. It's also the only place you typically see you know, vegans and paleos and carnivores and pescatarians all hanging out together. So we like to joke, but really what we're going to focus on is really deconstructing and probably will. A lot of the work will be unpacking a lot of the bad habits and the things that we've all done and the misconceptions about how to position. This is going to be an exercise of multiplication by subtraction, removing the things that don't serve us, removing the things that we're doing or saying that are actually getting in the way of attracting your ideal client. And we're going to break that down over a couple of days and we're going to go at it hard all day Friday, Thursday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, three days total. And it's going to be a lot of fun. We always make these events fun. If you were on the last one, be curious if anybody was on the last Health Business Growth Conference, type in chat. We kind of play full out. We got $30,000 in prizes we're giving away, including a home studio makeover. And there you go. Some people were on and so what was it like? I'm just curious, was it worth your time if you were there? I'd love to see if you loved it or. Or how it was like, yeah, thank you for the kind words. It's a lot of fun. We actually go to a TV studio that's got five sets. It's a fairly big production, but it changes. It's not sitting and watching the zoom, although we were on Zoom and we're chatting and we're collaborating. There's a lot of engagement, there's a lot of opportunity to work through the process with us. And so you're going to leave, you're going to arrive going, okay, I'd like to grow and scale. And we're going to help you assess where you are in the process today and then what your path personally for you should be so that you can exit the week weekend. You know, you're going to exit the end of the day Saturday with a clear plan of action. You're going to know exactly how you can reframe what you do and who you do it for and. And really start to grow. And then we've got a lot of. A lot of people want the tactical too. You know, they're like, yeah, that's cool. But I heard you talking about a book. How do I do books? We've got an expert on how to do books. How do I do social media? Got an expert on social media, so we'll do. It's not all about just building trust, although we've got great keynotes. John Lee Dumas is going to be there. Natalie Jill, great example is somebody here's a mom who was overweight, single, had, you know, was not happy with who she was at all, and she hacked her own health to wind up being a fitness competitor. And she started with how to lose the fat as a single mom. That one little itty bitty product, which she was just sharing in her social in a very authentic and real way as a guide, was a million dollar product when she was completely broke. And then how she's repurposed and used this very process not once, but three separate times to reinvent herself. You'll hear that story. David Horsager is arguably the number one most sought after keynote and author on trust. He's going to talk to us about the importance of trust today and answer those questions that you asked me with a lot more authority than I've got about why the world's so messed up. And then John Lee Dumas, one of my buddies, it's a funny story I got to share is that I'm super excited about John Lee Dumas being at this. For those of you who don't know, he's the creator of the number one podcast, entrepreneur on Fire. I was listening to that podcast eight years ago, nine years ago, and, and he said, look, if you want to start to build an audience, you don't need to be the expert, you don't need the credentials on the wall. You could actually just be the curator of information. And I thought, this is interesting. And I took an investment, a little company called Wellness.com based out here in San Diego. And we decided that we needed to grow the list. And what do you do? And I'm like, oh, I'm listening to this guy, John Lee Dumas. He's got a course on how to do a podcast. So I took the course and I learned how I didn't need to be an expert in health. I was just an investor in the company. But I took it. And my very first guest was JJ Virgin. And so John Lee Dumas, because he wasn't an expert, he was a curator of experts, had a podcast who got my attention. And when he got my attention, I created a podcast. My first guest, And I think seventh, was J.J. here I am now in a business millions and millions of dollars later, and now seven years later with JJ all because he was a guide. It's a meta Meta, meta moment. The way it's all coming full circle. So super cool. And yeah, we're going to have a great time. You're going to meet awesome people. There'll be time for meal breaks. We time to get up and get energized. Here's my big promise to you. If you commit and say yes to yourself and you invest $1 and we do that because if you have nothing in there, you're probably not going to show up. So you got to do at least last year this was a $397 or $797 ticket. And we said we're going to work only with partners. We've done no cold ads, we haven't gone out to the world. We partnered with the people that had the quality individuals that we want to be part of our mindshare community, like yours, Sachin, and said you can give away these coupons to those that you know like and trust and invite them to come hang out with us. And so $397 ticket, it's going to be a dollar and, and join us. I guarantee it's going to be worth 10 times your investment easily. A thousand times, and I would say 10,000 times or 10,000 times, we've had people leave that event. Last year we had people, we had one individual leave the event, make a couple of key shifts and generate $36,000 in the next 45 days. So it'll be fun, a lot of great guests and you're going to be there, going to hang out.

I am, I am. I mean, I look forward to everything that you and the mindshare community put together because it's a masterclass on how to host an event, it's a masterclass on how to over deliver. So if nothing else, like if you don't even pay attention to anything else, which obviously that would be crazy for you not to, you'll at least be surrounding yourself by amazing people. And that's one of the things that's so important for us, whether even if you're just starting out, you want to surround yourself with people who are just a few years ahead of you because then you can start thinking the way they do that you can start learning the same information. And many of these speakers, it's going to be their first time in this community, so they're going to hear this information for the first time, just like you're going to hear it for the first time. And then it's just a matter of what do you do with this information and being Part of this mentorship and possibly even others, you're going to be able to take what you learn and accelerate it even faster. So really put yourself at a. Not even a competitive advantage, but at a cooperative advantage and join us. I mean, you'll never spend a better dollar in your life. And nowadays a dollar doesn't get you very far even if you put it in your gas tank.

Well, you couldn't have said it better. And the key thing you said there that I like so much was the idea that what can we accomplish together as a collaborative? And JJ started this organization with that goal. She talks about a rising tide, lifts all boats. Everything she does, everything she touc, is about contribution, collaboration, what we can accomplish together. We have a sick world right now, and we need to really lock arms, more so than any other time in history, to do battle, be prepared to do battle with the dark forces. I mean, we can carry the whole Luke Skywalker analogy as far as we'd like here, but we know there are a few Darth Vaders and Death stars out there, especially as it relates to health. And I think if you can become the strong guides for your heroes and your markets and your niches and the people that you serve, that collectively we are going to be able to do some great things and move the needle on health and break some bad paradigms that need to be changed. And so let's do that. Let's make that the mission, that collectively we can heal a billion people on the planet. That's our mission through the work of good practitioners like you and make a difference for good and overcome all the noise and become trusted.

Amazing. See what he did there? So good, right? Positioned you individually as a hero, not himself as a hero. So awesome. Carl, you are so gracious. You're overtime. So I don't want you, buddy, for your next meeting. Love you, man. And love you, too. I'll see you in a. In less than about a week now.

Yeah, just about a week. See you guys. Take care.

I had one question, Carl. When does the event start? On Thursday. That question came up and I wanted to make sure.

Go to healthbusinessgrowthconference.com you'll see the times. It'll be different, obviously, for your market, but we start 8:00am I think Pacific time is the kickoff. Where the, where we'll open the doors. 9 o' clock programming starts. There's reasons to get there early. We give away all kinds of cool stuff. It's fun. You'll be able to network and connect. Just show up, you know, here's the cool thing. You dress for success, you know, from the waist up. Underneath, you dress for play. Wear your bunny slippers and your PJs. Have a good time. We're going to have. We're going to have a ton of fun. You're going to learn a lot. I promise you that. You'll see things you've never seen before. You'll learn things you've never known before. Most importantly, you're going to unpack a lot of stuff that you just don't need anymore. It's going to lighten your load. You're going to feel lighter, freer. It's going to be easier to have those conversations more relaxed, like Satchin said earlier. And yeah, I'm anxious to hear what happens. Like, for me, the best time is two weeks after the event. We start getting the feedback of the changes that people have made because we always ask, post in our group, what did you learn? What did you do? How has it impacted you? That's when the endorphins fly. For me, it's just awesome.

Amazing. Well, thank you, my friend.

Take care, everybody. So good to hang out with you. Thank you.