How to get through tough times and ask for help

Hi, Aaron. It looks like we're live. How you doing today, man?

I'm excited for our conversation today and to catch up. I know you've done some traveling recently, so I'd love to share and hear what you've learned.

Well, you know, first of all, I guess we've been super consistent over these last few weeks, so it really threw me off when I wasn't able to meet with you last Tuesday. So I'm excited that we get to have this conversation today. And, you know, I was out in BC, actually, specifically Vancouver and Victoria, spent some lovely time with friends, namely Gordy and Suki, and we had a great chance to connect with their family. Spent time in the woods. We did a suspension bridge, which was so beautiful, called Capilano, and we walked in the old growth forest. So it was a lovely time. A lot of deep healing, connecting with nature, time outdoors, physically being very active, but taking our time each day and making sure we're getting adequate amounts of sleep as well. So it was very active and restful a few days out there. Really enjoyed it. And then came back late on Wednesday, which then resulted in, you know, kind of a rough Thursday, so to speak. And I'm back at it today. So my sleep score went from 60 to 91, and my readiness went from 66 to 90. So right back where I need to be and excited to be back, you know, and having this conversation with you.

Welcome back.

Thank you. So I know that one of the themes that's been coming up in our mentorship lately has been people have been facing challenging times. So they're either struggling with a health issue or they're struggling with an identity issue, or they might be struggling with, you know, a personal challenge that's going on in their relationship and that's unfortunately spilling into their business or cluing them in, into an area that they need to work on. So I thought today we would talk about that. Like, how do we handle tough times? Because they're inevitable, as we all know, and we have to be in many ways prepared for them so that they don't kind of really throw us off of our mission. So that's what we're going to talk about today. And I love that you prompted this because this is something that's been coming up for a lot of people. So there's some, maybe something in the stars that's causing this disruption, but it seems like it's been spiraling quite a bit lately. What's, what's, what's your take on it?

My take on it? Now, you know, I know all of us have gone through tough times and having experienced tough times and getting through them and realizing, oh, there was a growth opportunity through the tough times, I've come to not, not want to, I don't want to go through tough times by choice. But I know that if I'm encountering a tough time, it's an invitation to reevaluate things. It's a time to grow, like, reflect on who I want to become. Where are the gaps? You know, the tough times sometimes don't just happen out of pure chance. Like probably I had something to do with the tough times. So where can I improve? Why can I see what mistakes I made and how to, how to get better? And we're in our accountability groups in our community, we see this, right? We see people get a lot of momentum, maybe hit a obstacle, maybe it's internal, maybe it's external, like you mentioned. And so I thought it would be really helpful to hear your perspective and things that you've seen, experience and observed and how to stay aligned and you know, the, the trips you take out into nature, there's must be a reason why maybe it contributes to how you get through tough times. So I would, you know, love to cover this. So someone else who's going through a tough time knows how to get through it, right? You can't just stop. The world doesn't stop just because we go through a tough time. And that was a wake up call for me. And so let's, maybe we can just kind of define some of these tough times, like what are some of the things that we see people go through and how can we kind of set some context for this?

Yeah, well, well, I guess one thing that I'd love to make clear is that there's tough times and then there's tough times, right? So there's a sliding scale of how we might define tough times. Sometimes a tough time might mean a death of a loved one, right? It could be something tragic or catastrophic like that. So there is a sliding scale here. And so when we have this conversation, it's never to seem or sound insensitive to whatever is happening to you in, in your life. We're not here, we're not here to judge, and we're certainly only here to help and add perspective. So I just want to start this conversation with that, that we may not know what you're going through, but what I'd love to do is give people some tools so that, you know, when they encounter some challenges, they, they're Equipped to get right back on track and, and not keep slipping and sliding because it can be a slippery slope when we get off track.

Right. That's a great thing to recommend and set context. So maybe we just jump into the first one when it. Regarding, you know, know, values, the importance of values. Is this something that you do intentionally and is this something someone listening to this can start to evaluate and reflect on?

Yeah. So, you know, tough, tough times is basically an opportunity for us to either momentarily or permanently reprioritize our values. So if you're dealing with something that's happening in the family, it's important for us to be able to reprioritize our time and energy in that direction, because that's where it's required. If it's in our business, then that's where it's required. So I always want to evaluate where are my priorities, because that's where I want to make sure that I'm in alignment with my values and my priorities is what I'm trying to say. So assessing that, that's a great time to do that. If the challenge is in the family, maybe it's because you value family, but you haven't been spending time there. Right. If the value is spending time in nature, well, how are we prioritizing that? So there's an important realization that we all have to have, is that living in our values is one of the most significant ways to build success. Because you always feel good about what you're doing. You feel good about every single day, every single moment when you're in alignment with your values. The other thing I want to say that might be helpful for people is understanding their seasonality in all areas of our life. And so, you know, seasonality in our business. And there's going to be seasonality in relationships, there's going to be seasonality in our own personal growth and development. And we have to understand that, that it's, you know, when the leaves are. Pretty soon they're going to start changing colors. Here the leaves start changing colors. If we're not expecting that to happen or we don't understand their seasonality, we might start freaking out, thinking that the trees are dying. Right. But they're actually not. It's a natural process of growth and regrowth that takes place. And so that's going to happen in us as well as we can continue to spiral on our journey, so to speak. We're going to encounter, you know, we're going to encounter different seasons and. And if we're prepared that those seasons are coming, then we don't freak out, right? So there's after every single summer there's a fall and then there's a winter, but then after every single winter, there's a spring. And when I heard this from Jim Rohn, it really made sense for me, because then what I could do is lean into the seasons, right? So I could. If you're prepared for the season to come, then you can lean into it. So I love, you know, when the leaves change colors. So you and I are going on a backcountry trip during the peak season in Algonquin park in Ontario, and we're going to be able to spend time together in something that we deeply are committed to and value, which is nature. And the way that we planned the trip was for that peak season because we know that predictably the leaves are going to change color at this time of year. So we can now lean into the seasonality when we know that it's coming. So if we know there's seasonality in our business, for example, then maybe we take the month of August off. We're entrepreneurs. We have the flexibility to do that should we choose to. Or we turn the faucet off. Right. We don't turn the business off, but we turn the faucet off. So there is less for us to manage at that time, and we then can better manage our time and priorities and expectations. So leaning into the season is a great understanding for us as well, is when we can predict it and prepare for it, and then we are much more likely to get through it as well.

I love the metaphor, that analogy. And I remember the elders in our naturopathic community always talking about cycles and seasons and that healing even is never this linear thing. It's up and down. You take a couple steps back, four steps forward. And often I know if I've ever healed from something, go. Going through the healing process is not comfortable. If you, if you've done a like, let's use training, for example, like a hard workout the next day or two, your body doesn't feel good necessarily. You're sore, you're achy and expecting it. And knowing that that's part of the growth process, I think is just having that expectation, oh, there are seasons, you know, that it's not always going to be smooth in the way you want. We don't get to decide what that process is like.

Yeah, definitely. It's important to understand the seasonalities. And we always want to look at the trajectory too. Right. So the trajectory should always be towards growth after each season. And when we can understand that about our business, then it allows us to again, better prepare, allows us to lean in. And now we're actually working with these ebbs and flows instead of them working against us.

Do you have any suggestions on how to get a little bit more clear on values? We know it's important to align with values, and that helps get through the seasonality. But the North Star, how might you suggest someone think about values? Maybe making it more concrete in their own. In their own mind?

Yeah. One way I've heard people say this before is by looking at somebody's calendar. And so from our. From their calendar, we can get a better understanding of what their priorities and values are. And we can understand, based on what they do, when they do it, what their priorities are and how intentional those priorities are. So, you know, the calendar is a good way to know. And. And then what we encourage people to do is write down what these values are to you and then superimpose your values that you wrote down and your calendar and just kind of eyeball it and see does your. The way you spend your time reflect your values or not? So that's one way to, you know, a simple exercise that people can do is take a look at your calendar. Right. And identify, okay, if family is important to me, well, what am I doing, you know, to spend more time with my family or lean into that value? And is. It may not have to be on your calendar, but is there room for it on your calendar? Right. You don't have to schedule in time with your kids, but you can reflect back and say, okay, this is how much time I spent. If that is a priority for you.

It reminds me also of what I learned from you about planning and writing out your ideal day. I know it was hard for me because it seems so unrealistic. Like, it is. Like, how is that even possible? That I could wake up, you know, go outside for a little short walk, drink my coffee leisurely, but when I look back at the last couple years, like, oh, that's what I do on a daily basis. And. And I. I had no idea that would be possible two, three years ago. So there's these things that just can happen when we write it down and actually think about and clarify what our ideal calendar might look like.

Yeah. And, you know, when people go through that exercise of identifying their ideal day, it, you know, they might write down 30 to 40 things and they can do 85 to 90% of them tomorrow. Right. Like, what time would you wake up? Okay, let's Decide that. Right. What's the first thought you're going to have, you know, and so on and so forth. So we can live out 90% of our ideal day in the current situation that we're in. And then we just keep knocking off some of those other things. And when you consistently and intentionally live your day that way, it's inevitable that the other things will just start filling themselves in automatically.

It's accessible. It's closer than we think. Yeah.

I mean, here's the thing. In five years from now, it'll be five years. And so, you know, even if you don't believe it's possible, just the persistent thought of it and the desire of what it is that we want, that's what brings it into reality. And then if you can work with that intention, right, and work with that focus and make decisions that align with that focus, then it can happen even faster. Right. So, you know, let's, why don't we talk about some of the tough times that people face. I know that, you know, when you get on coaching calls with people, when you do some group accountability, what are some of the challenges that, that come up in those conversations?

I find it's, it's less about the, like, the business and the practice itself that, that does come up, but oftentimes it's, I want to do something, but I can't get myself to do it. Or maybe it's achieving some, some momentum and then falling back on old patterns or feeling, feeling imposter syndrome or. But it might be triggered by a personal event. Maybe it's a health crisis, maybe it's experiencing a not so ideal client, for example, and then, then it just kind of knocks you off your, your tracks a bit. And so the tough times can show up in a lot of different, different ways. But what I find is the tough times is usually how to get back on track, like regardless of what the thing. Like you're going down this path and then a, a tree falls in front of you and you're just like, what, what just happened? So the tough time is actually just how to navigate that tree that fell into your path and maybe just getting help. I, I think this lends to like, the idea of, like, how do you get help sometimes that oftentimes people will, I hear they're struggling for months. I've done it too. Maybe you just kind of, you sit with your problem thinking, I'm going to solve this myself. And just the fact of someone bringing it up and talking about it helps get some, just gets it off their Chest kind of removes the weight, the burden of that difficulty. And sometimes when they articulate what's going on, it's actually not as bad as they thought. So often that that's kind of what happens in these groups where you start to share and then it just becomes less of a weight. That's what I've been noticing in our groups.

Yeah. I think a conversation is so much more powerful than people realize. And people are far more empathetic than people might realize as well. So asking for help and even I find that sharing the challenges that you're facing just by you sharing actually may be helpful to somebody else because they might say, well, shoot, my problem isn't that bad. Right? Or they might say, wow, they came out on the other side of this, and now I have a tool that I can use or a teaching or a person that I could reach out to if I'm struggling with this as well. So it's empowering. And, you know, I remember once I joined a mentorship, so part of it, it's mindshare. One of the. One of the most valuable things that I got out of mind share was knowing that everyone and every organization will make mistakes, every organization will make errors. And being able to just see how people handle that on the ins, like on the back end was so valuable. So when the wrong link goes out, right. There's a process on how to handle it. And so just learning that made me realize that, wow, this happens in every organization because it does the big ones, the small ones, medium sized ones. And it's not the challenge, it's how you handle it that's so valuable. And I don't even think that I could describe the value that that has offered me because it's given me permission to keep moving forward. So even when things go sideways, I go, it's not the end of the world. It's not a big deal. Here's how I handle it and here's how I move on. So, you know, asking for help, but also being very observational in how other people handle adversity and challenges, that has taught me a ton as well. So I would say that, you know, surrounding yourself with the right community, opening up to the challenge that you're facing, that's the only way people can pour into you. Right. And it's not. It's when you find the right community, you feel comfortable sharing. So a big thing is, you know, the other thing is also comparison kills joy. So we also have to be careful when we are in groups and communities and other People are experiencing what we may desire. Right. Or what we, we may be pursuing or think is success. And if those people are there, then we. That should spark our curiosity, right. Instead of jealousy. So be curious as to how other people are doing things. If you're trying to solve a problem and somebody else has solved it already, ask that person for help. You know, I guarantee that they're happy to help you too. So in groups. Yeah, be vulnerable. Don't compare yourself to other people. Right. We're all in different seasons at different chapters. You know, imagine a tree, right, in the forest that's growing. And I have this beautiful view of all these trees, and they're all different ages, right? So the tree that's 39 years old and the tree that's 50 years old will always be 11 years apart.

Right.

There's nothing they can do to fill that gap. One tree will always be 11 years older than the other. So there's 11 more seasons of experience that that tree has that it can learn from. So, you know, learn from those other people. It's such a valuable tool, but you'll never catch up to them. So you'll always be learning. They'll always be those several seasons ahead of you and be able to support you and guide you along the way.

And the funny thing we might not even think about is we will, we will one day be those older trees. Or you. If you've gotten through a certain point of your life, there's already people a couple steps, you know, a couple steps younger, a couple rings younger in the tree scale who are looking up to us, right? The smaller trees looking. Looking up to the bigger trees.

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I think vulnerability, community, aligning with our values, reshifting, reprioritizing our time being reflective. Right. Steve Jobs says it's. It's easy to connect the dots looking backwards, so nothing easier than that. So look backwards and see. Okay, where, where can I take ownership over this? How can I, you know, I co created whatever the situation is. At least I co created how I'm responding to the situation. So how do I co create so I can keep moving in the right direction instead of the wrong direction? So that reflection, I think, is going to be very valuable for people as they face adversity and face challenges. And then one of the things that I think Jim Rohn said this as well, and I really like it. He says that if you win a million dollars in a lottery, let's say it's best that you become a millionaire, right? So there's a difference between somebody who won a million dollars and somebody who earned that million dollars. Right. Their identities are totally different and their skill set and all those things are totally different. So that number in the bank account doesn't tell the whole story. So we have to. I say this because a lot of times people are going to encounter success and then they're going to start to question their identity because they haven't reinvented themselves, right? So they're still stuck. And sometimes what people need is they need to do some new headshots, right? Because they might be a different person and a different part of them might shine through. And now they're back at it, Right. They might just need to update their bio to be more reflective of who they are so that how they present in the world is congruent with who they are today. So sometimes just updating who we are can go a long way for people.

It reminds me, you know the founder of LinkedIn, Reid Hoffman?

I don't know him, but yes, yeah.

We know of him. I, I respect his approach and he said that this is not quite a tangent, but when you're talking about who you're becoming and your identity, when you. He said, as simple as updating your presence on LinkedIn, like, just what you're up to, what is your current role? 5, 10, 15 minutes. And that can start to create, he calls it like soft assets. Like, oh, if people are looking for what you do and just by, you know, changing what you're doing on your LinkedIn can create the opportunities for connection. And he made it seem very simple, right? Five, ten minutes, just update your LinkedIn. Like, I have to look at my LinkedIn. I don't even know what it says, it's been so long. But it can be as simple as just like, like new headshots, just updating your presence. Just like letting people know, hey, this is who I am today or who I'm becoming.

Yeah, just a quick refresh, right? It's almost like giving, Giving your office a fresh coat of paint. It's subtle, but it goes a long way in lifting and reshaping your identity. I think that's a big one as well. When we face adversity and when we face, especially when we face opportunity and growth is redefining who we are. And LinkedIn's an easy place to do it, right? Facebook is another easy place to do it. Our website might be an easy place to do it. And if you've really grown, then it might be time for new headshots, as we said. So that could be a great, fun exercise for people to grow into.

So it might be a good time to, you know, once you have the community, once you've shared, how do you. How do you accept the help? You know, there's different ways to ask for help. There's. You can ask for handouts. You can. Maybe you can ask for help and not do anything with it. So how do you think about teachability? Coachability, maybe, and explain the differences there? Because it's one thing to ask for help and to. There's difference between venting and actually seeking help.

Yeah, I think that's a good point. So there's two things that we look for in. In clients that we like to work with. One is coachability, and the other one is teachability. So teachability is our willingness to learn new things. So that might be reading a book, it might be watching a podcast, maybe even this video on YouTube. Uh, so that's learning things, but being coachable is coachability, and that tells me how willing you are to learn new things and to actually be held accountable and at putting those things, that. Those skills or those talents or that knowledge into action and getting feedback on it. So learning something, that's teachability. Being coachable is coachability, and that's really where. Where growth takes place. So many of us are teachable. We love learning new things, but we have to make sure that we have somebody that's kind of finding and identifying and helping us identify our blind spots. And that's where, you know, the right coach, the right mentor, or the right guide, the right sage for you is going to be really important in the area that you need that expertise. So if you're dealing with loss or grief, then you need someone who specializes in that area to be able to help you.

Do you have any strategies for, like, what does it look like to ask for help? Like, if you were dealing with something difficult again, what's your thought process of, like, who. Who do you ask? How might you approach it? Maybe it's just as simple as just asking. I'm curious to know what your thought process is behind that.

Yeah, I think the. The main thing is just letting go of the ego and not taking anything personal. So, you know, just. It's. Whatever's happening is not who you are. So whatever your challenge you're facing, or even if it's growth, you know, it's. It's not who you are. So if we want to solve this problem, then we can't solve that problem if we approach it from a personal standpoint because it's not who we are. We have to approach it as being as objective as we can be. So we almost have to have an out of body experience with solving that problem. So we have to look at that problem as something separate from us so that we can look at it without emotion. And so then we're able to then have that person sitting beside us and look at it and point at it and say, hey, here's where we see room for opportunity and growth. But if we identify as the problem, then it's very, very difficult for us to fix that because then we have to attack ourselves to solve the problem. So I would say remove the problem, view it as something separate from who you are, and then that allows you to ask for help and not be so personally offended by any commentary or not let it get to your head. E.

So how do you think about. We mentioned this. You're asking for help. There's also. You have conversations. But what about the importance of doing something different, like hobbies? You've mentioned some of your hobbies in the past, but how can hobbies get help someone get through tough times?

Yeah, you know, for me, I find when I participate in a hobby that I enjoy that it's almost like a meditation for me. And it gets my mind off things, it creates white space. And that's when I get a lot of clarity. So I become a better problem solver when I'm doing something that I enjoy. So even for me, it could be mowing the yard. Right. So I take, it's like a, for me, it's a therapeutic intervention. I can put on my headphones, listen to the music, or I can be in my head and in my element, but then solving a challenge as well. So I like to, you know, do things that I enjoy doing to get my mind off things. And I find that that's when I download most of the answers or solutions for myself. How about you? Do you find that that's the case for you too?

Yeah, I took for granted a lot for a while, like hobbies, when you're, when you're working, you just think, I gotta work at this. You know, you sit there and you work or you sit in front of your computer trying to write something, you know, copy or whatever it might be. But oftentimes the real work happens on a walk. And you know, reading a lot of biographies about really smart like Einstein was a walker. You know, Leonardo da Vinci, one of the most creative inventors ever, was someone who did a lot of walking. Abraham Lincoln did a Lot of walking and I realized like there's something to this and I maybe I consider, I don't know if it's a hobby, but I love walking in nature and just looking at the trees. And then like you said, the, the download happens. The. My subconscious mind works. My, my brain just works in different ways when I move my body. So anything physical tends to get me out of my, my logical brain right into a more of a feeling of I feel more hopeful. Like I. Now I know the trigger for me is if I feel down, I know I haven't moved enough or if I feel like irritable. I think I observe my cat and this happens if she doesn't play, like she's very, like she's very agitated, if she hasn't had that stimulation.

Right.

I'm learning something from my cat. Like if I don't play, if I don't get out and move my body, I get, I start feeling agitated, more down, more negative and something as simple as just doing some squats or kettlebell swings, just going outside, being with people like hang out with. I hung out with my long term, long time buddy from medical school. We just sat in the barrel sauna chatting and then he, we were sitting outside at like 10pm it was a little bit late, but that's when his, that's when his kids sleep. And so it's just nice to catch up and not be doing busy stuff.

Right. I think, you know, just in that same vein is nature is like one of the greatest problem solvers. So you know, it solved way bigger problems than you're facing right now, right. Over over million billions of years. So I think that, you know, immersing ourselves in that environment can be super helpful.

Simple. Just go out in nature. So plan a trip, Go hiking, Take a hike.

Take a hike. Good advice. Well, thanks Aaron. This has been great. Enjoyed our conversation. I think that there's so many things that are going to happen for us on our journey. Surround yourself with the right people, spend some time in nature. Right. Get really aligned with your values. Expect the seasonality in all areas of your life. And I think those are great tools that we've given people today to move them in the right direction. So hopefully that's helpful to you. Get out there, you know, spend some time outdoors, enjoy what's left of the summer. Here in North America, the days are, you know, considerably and noticeably getting shorter now, which means that we need to get outside more, soak in that sun before the winter comes. And yeah, let's plan for a season of growth for all of you in your businesses. Talk to you soon. Bye, Aaron.

See you, Sajan.