Sanjay Bhojraj's Journey: From Conventional to Functional Medicine

Hi Sanjay. How's it going today? My man.

Hey Sachin. How are you so good out here in SoCal.

I love it. You offered me surfing lessons before we started this recording and I am committed to coming out there and surfing with you. How long you been surfing for?

Bringing it on. You know, it was a Covid thing actually. I had a patient who I had saved their life. So as you may know, I'm a cardiologist. So I did a procedure, saved his life. He came in as a heart attack off the beach, actually. We had to cut, cut his wet suit off. And then he had, you know, a lot of things. But in the course of his recovery, I mentioned just off the cuff, you know, I'd really like to learn, to learn to surf one day. And then he said, doc, as soon as you're ready, I'm out there with you. And that was four years ago and it's really changed my life. So I'm, you know, happy to preach the gospel of surfing.

So I've, I've surfed twice in my life. The first and both times were, believe it or not, in Costa Rica, different beaches, but in Costa Rica.

Yeah.

And the first time I, I didn't quite catch a wave. And the second time I tried for like an hour straight. And it's quite the workout if you've never surfed before. It's, it's not like an easy peasy thing. And the people that you see surfing in magazines and on YouTube videos, like, they make it look so easy as, as most masters do. We'll definitely talk about that today. But the, the last wave, I'm like, you know what? I can't leave Costa Rica without catching a wave. I'm just gonna give it one more college try.

Yeah.

And I did and I caught the wave. And I could see why it's so addictive. Like you just feel like the entire ocean has your back.

It becomes almost a spiritual thing being moved by a higher power. And if you do it correctly, right. That's exactly what you feel. Right. Similar to the journey as we'll talk about, about being an entrepreneur and, and a health coach and all the things is that when you're driven by a higher purpose, you really kind of. And I talk about it all the time. All the time. It's like you hit that, that hot zone in the wave and it's just a flow. Right. Like you're driven by a hyper purpose, higher purpose. You move and you have no choice but to go with it. Right. So, so it's an Interesting opening to our discussion today.

Yeah. You know, surfing, like many things in life, can be a great metaphor for business, for life, for relationships. And I love how you put it. It's like a higher power that's moving us and there's times where we feel that even in our businesses. So I, I'd love, I love if you have a story that you could share or maybe you're writing that story still about a higher power moving you because you went, your, you've transitioned from conventional cardiology to, you know, and I don't even want to name what you do because I think it's, it's so unique and different. How would you describe what it is that you do now?

Well, so my story is kind of, I think probably a lot like your listeners, right. There's just something lacking in what I was. So as a young Indian male, I had two options of what my career choice could be. It was either be a doctor or be a doctor. Both of my parents were physicians and I was quite honestly brainwashed into going into medicine. But luckily I was good at science, good at talking to people, and it just fit, right? So went really well. And we all go into medicine wanting to help people. Right. And wanting to make a difference, make an impact. And so for me, my natural talents led me into cardiology and into more specifically something called interventional cardiology. Whereas a procedure based cardiologist, I was the person you didn't want to meet at 2 in the morning, you came in, you had a heart attack, or maybe you didn't want to meet me. I was able to open your artery up and, and get things moving again. Saving heart muscle, avoiding death, you know, all, all the things. And I did this for, you know, a good 10 or 15 years. And I just came upon this realization, why do we keep having this happen? Right? Like, what is really going on? What are the 10,000 steps it took to get here? And that led me into my functional medicine journey, really, again, like most of us looking for the root cause of was going on. And that led our paths to cross as I was looking to establish a program that I could create that would really help change the course of people's health, people's lives. And so that's what I'm doing now is incorporating diet, lifestyle, breath, work, stress management, all of these things to really address the root cause of cardiovascular disease. And honestly, most diseases in general, not just you've got too much cholesterol or too much blood pressure, right? Well, certainly that has a role we have to talk about. The mental, emotional, spiritual aspects of wellness. Right. As a. As a overall kind of term, not just that slice of that high graph of health. Right. Because health is definitely a part of wellness, but wellness has so many other components to it.

Yeah. You know, heart disease is still the number one killer. And, you know, you would think that we would have made tons of progress, and I think we've made lots of progress in inter. From an interventional perspective, but from a course correction perspective, which is what you're trying to do. It's like, you know, I love what you said. It took 10,000 steps to get here. This didn't happen overnight. It took a lifetime. Right. Of probably making the wrong decisions or just being off track. Just a couple of degrees that led people down this, you know, to end up on your table. What are some of these pillars that you've kind of identified? I know there's a handful that you've identified, but what would you say are the top three to five for at least practitioners who are listening that, you know, for themselves want to prevent heart disease? What are some things that they can do?

And it's confusing. I mean, I'm part of several physician groups on Facebook, and probably every third post is my cholesterol. Is this, what diet do I need to do? Kind of blah, blah, blah. So if you're out there and you're confused, know that you're in good company because most of us are really good at taking care of other people, just not ourselves. Right. So, you know, I think the first thing. So there's. There's the traditional stuff. Right. So stop smoking, you know, I think is probably the number one thing. Certainly dietary interventions and diet gets confusing because, you know, someone's on a keto diet, a. A paleo diet or this diet or that diet. But certain principles, particularly in the functional medicine community, I think are very consistent of, you know, reducing inflammation, looking at, not necessarily allergies.

Right.

Because like, you know, if you eat a peanut, you know, your throat closes. That's definitely an allergy. But looking at food sensitivities as well. Right. Things that may not cause catastrophic events, but rather things that cause chronic inflammation. So, you know, getting that dialed in, there's a number of tests and things that you can do to figure out what works well for you. I think one of the things that we really erode the most that probably affects our health is sleep.

Right.

Most people are not sleeping enough, or if you are getting an adequate amount of sleep, meaning duration of sleep, you may not be getting adequate depth of Sleep. And that is so multifactorial. You know, probably I think the single biggest weapon of mass destruction in our current life is stress, right? So I can't, I tell my clients and patients all the time, look, I cannot take away stress from your life. Right? That's adulting one on one. It is stress, right. And for those of you who are business owners or parents, you know, every day is like a new challenge that you didn't see coming. But rather, how does that stress hit you, right? How, how does that, how do you react when you are acted upon and really learning how to balance that and doing things like looking at heart rate variability, for instance, to look at where that sympathetic parasympathetic tone is, where that set point is to make sure that you're on the more rest and digest side, not the fight or flight side. Because it is so easy to just be fight or flight all the time. And we just don't realize how much that hurts us. I think movement would be probably the fifth pillar. I think we're on five now is our bodies were designed to move. And that doesn't necessarily just mean walking and treadmill. About resistance training, I'm a, you know, I was a power lifter in a former life and still lift weights and the literature on resistance training for cardiovascular benefit, metabolic benefit, is robust. It's just that as practitioners, a lot of us aren't gym rats, right? So it's much easier to tell someone walk 20 minutes than to describe the proper form of a deadlift or proper form of a squat, right? So, so movement definitely is something that we can do. And if you look at that list, the majority of that, it's free, right? It's things that you can do without even spending a dime, right? Forget about medicines and, and all these things. You can move, you can sleep, you can de. Stress. You know, maybe you need to get a book out from the library to learn stress management techniques. But it's all stuff that we can do as humans.

Yeah, I love what you said is, you know that reaction component, right? Because there's forces that are going to act upon us and we can react. And when I look at the word react, it's reenact the level of stress that that creates for us or we can not act, right? So not let it affect us as much. Or we can take a breath and respond instead of react. Right. And you know, the word respond, I think of like ponder, like just pondering. Will this matter in five minutes, five hours, five days, five weeks, five months, five years?

That's actually something I learned from you, the five, the rule of fives. But, you know, it's. We don't have control of other people's actions. Right? Like, I can't. I don't know what's going to happen. I might drive out of. Out of my house, pick up my kids from school, and somebody could be texting on their phone and run into me, Right? But the only thing I can control is how I react, right? How. How do I show up? Do I give someone the benefit of the doubt? My daughters are actually learning how to drive right now. And we were, you know, on the highway, and someone was weaving through traffic, and.

And.

And they're like, dad, that guy's driving so dangerous. I wonder what's going on? And I said, you know, maybe he just has to go to the bathroom really bad and is racing to get home. Right. I don't know what that guy's story is or that woman's story is. Right. So always give humans the benefit of the doubt, you know, and as best you can. But, you know, I think when we're in this reactionary, angry mode all the time, it erodes our soul, right? It erodes from our existence. I heard this great quote, anger is the punishment we. We deploy on ourselves for someone else's mistake, right? So, you know, what's the point of being angry, right? Just try to be as relaxed as you can.

Yeah, I love that. You know, it's funny because you use the bathroom as a. As a possible story, so we just kind of have fun with it, and we just assume that that person has an urgent bowel that needs to be relieved, and it just adds humor to the situation, you know?

But perfect example how you flip the script, you change the narrative, and all of a sudden this horrible thing of this guy cutting you off becomes hilarious. Right? And think about what that does for your mental outlook, your mental picture, right? Let's say you get a phone call. Are you going to say hello with a smile in your voice? You're going to say hello with an angry tone in your voice, right? It really. These little things change your outlook so much.

Yeah. You know, it reminds me, actually, I'm really. I know. I'm already loving our conversation. And this is just who you are, which is. I can imagine why your clients love you as well. The. I get calls, random calls from, you know, you never know who it is. A telemarketer, duct cleaning agency, like, whatever it is. And my goal is to practice being nice with them. And I want to be the nicest, kindest person that they've encountered all day. And it's amazing how that could change somebody's perspective of humanity. You know, they've probably been calling 100 people that day, and people hang up on them. People are rude to them. People are inconsiderate or might even, you know, cuss them out. But I just try to be the nicest person, and it's. It's a great. The world is a great practice ground for us. And another hilarious thing that I do, speaking of people cutting you off, I don't drive very much because I work from home, but when I do, and if I am in that situation, somebody's honking or upset or mad at me or whatever the case maybe doesn't happen very often, but when it does, as soon as they take off and, you know, the people do that. That turnaround and they crank their neck, I wave at them with a huge smile on my face as if they're a friend I haven't seen in 20 years.

How are you?

And it just like, they just. The look on their face is so entertaining and absolutely hilarious because they're like, oh, my God, is that somebody I know? And you could see the. You could see their brain, that little hamster in their brain, working, trying to figure out who the hell is that Same thing do.

I'm try that. I'm gonna try. I'm like, is that you, like. Like, just, like, mouth it through the window and see what happens? But you got to be careful. The neighborhood that you do that in in s. Probably. But I think people are a lot nicer in Canada. But I think that would be hilarious to try, for sure.

Yeah. So, you know, speaking of kind of changing lanes and switching things up, I know you've had quite the journey. What was the switch that flipped for you that made you say, hey, I've had enough. I need to do something different? And I'm not that you've hung up your stethoscope per se, but you're going to do something that kind of aligns more with your value system.

Sure. And I think a lot of healthcare practitioners probably get sucked into the vortex of martyrdom. Right. Is that we are there for everybody else at the expense of ourselves. And it kind of reached a point for me where I think the universe had been sending me signs for years that it was time to try something else. And I just finally kind of had a moment where I kind of listened. I was in a corporate medicine job, and, you know, things were going well. I was Successful, I was busy, patients loved me, all those things. But, you know, internally, it was just really eating me up as I kind of, I kind of joked. The worst thing I did was start my functional medicine journey because I knew that that was where I wanted to be. And where I was, you know, was a different place. And as those two paths kind of got farther and farther apart, that cognitive distance between the ought self and my as was self, right. Kind of changed. And I realized, you know, I think God just wants me to do something different. Because anytime I had a conventional cardiology patient that I functionalized in my practice, they were so thankful and like, oh my gosh, why doesn't everybody do this? And it just became more fun for me. It just felt more aligned. And I think one of the things that I didn't realize is that as humans, we evolve over time. I mean, think about, I mean, you know, drinking wine. I don't know if you drink wine, Sachin, but I remember the first time I had a glass of wine, I was like, oh, my God, this is horrible. Like, why would anybody do this to themselves on purpose? And then with time, as you kind of learn new skills, acquired new tastes, all that thing, now, you know, I'll have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion. But. But it is just so far removed from where I started my, my journey. And kind of similarly, we don't realize that in careers we have these same seasons as well. Right. I think that, you know, we get across the finish line of medical school or chiropractic school or optometry school and nutrition school or whatever, you know, it is. And we don't realize that we evolve over time too. Our interests change. Right. And, and so I was kind of realizing that, yeah, you know what, waking up at 2 in the morning to go in for a heart attack was sexy and fun for a while, but now that I've lived this, I've seen it, I've been there firsthand so much. Now I have a whole different perspective on this. And I want to move ahead of this, right? Like, yeah, it's great that God has gifted me with the skills to be able to, you know, intervene on someone's heart, protect them. But now, you know, I have this other skill set too that is probably even more impactful and more important of preventing the heart attack in the first place. With my clients, I say the best way to manage any disease is to manage, never to get it in the first place. Right? So if we can do that through dietary interventions to teach people to take agency over their health again, and really heal as opposed to treat people, which is what we do in conventional medicine. That is so much more impactful, that is so much more powerful. And hopefully that resonates with everybody. Listening to the, to the podcast today is what you're doing is important. Right. And, and one of the things I learned from you, Sachin, is, you know, even if you're, you're confused about your path, you're not sure about your messaging or anything, you know, it's very important because the message that you have is powerful and the, the, the impact that you have can be huge and multiply in itself. So in these moments of dark, and there will be moments of dark or moments of uncertainty, you know, just keep pushing through because your message is important. People need this.

Yeah. You know, I love that you said there'll be moments of darkness and that doesn't always mean a bad thing. Right. It gets dark every night and we rest. Right. But if we're trying to do things at night that should be done during the day and vice versa, then we're kind of off this kind of cyclical and rhythmic nature that life has, that entrepreneurship has, that our physiology has it, that every part of this universe and cosmos has. And I find that a lot of times people can either lean into those seasons. Right. It's almost like a, like a tree. Like, imagine a tree, like holding on to its leaves throughout the winter, it would die.

Yeah, right.

But it realizes that, hey, this, you know, this, these leaves have served me. And now for the next season of my life, they're no longer going to serve me. However, if I shed them, then I can survive the winter and then these leaves will serve as fertilizer for, for future seasons to come. And so it can be hard to do that for people and to give up our old identities and to, you know, to kind of shake things off. And I'm sure you've spent a lot of time, energy, money, you know, learning what you know, and you probably encountered people when you told them what you were doing, they probably thought you were crazy. I'd love to hear, you know, some of those stories.

Well, it's the, the whole, I think the whole functional medicine kind of just world is so confusing to conventional medicine people. I mean, conventional medicine doctors in particular. So my colleagues who I work with still, they're asking me, I just, my father in law had a doctor's office visit, so I just went with him yesterday and I ran into some colleagues and they're like, when are you coming back? Right. Like, like, you know, okay, fine, you're doing your little fun thing for a while, but, you know, when are you gonna, when are you gonna wisen up, right, and realize that, that you need to come back? And it's, it's so funny. But yeah, people initially thought I was absolutely bonkers, right? Like, oh my gosh, you're the prime of your career and your director of, you know, the division and kind of all these different things that I was doing at the time. And on the outside, it looks very strange for someone to leave that, right? But. And so people would ask me, I said, you know what? I've never slept better because again, as we talked about that chasm between who I wanted to be and who I was, it was finally kind of reunited or coming back. And from a personal standpoint, you know, I just felt more like me again. Right. And that translates to all aspects of your life, not just professionally, but in my family, I just felt more present. You know, I was able to go to all my daughter's tennis games and all of their volleyball games, and I was just the dad that I wanted to be. That could have never happened before, you know, I was just so much more present in everything that I did. And I think it was because I was no longer living two lives in my brain. Everything came together, right? Like there wasn't like my professional life and personal life. You know, we always talk about the work life balance, but we need to kind of flip that script and talk about the life worth. Life work balance is really fitting work into our lives, not our lives into our work, right? And I think we just lose sight of that. And you can see it now in, in medical, all sorts of medical subspecialties, the rate of burnout is at an all time high, right? Like, I mean, it's, it's horrible to think of physician suicide and caretaker suicide, but these are people that are hurting again because that ought self and the our self are two such different things. And we're so afraid to take that leap to double down on ourselves, right? And just be confident that, you know what? I'm not going to know everything, but I'm going to figure it out, right? And for me, I think of myself of my first day of third year of medical school. For those of you who don't know when the first day of third year of med school is, the first time you're in a hospital setting, right, Completely clueless, you don't know where the bathroom is, you don't know how to take care of a patient. The nurses are pushing you around, the janitor is pushing you around. Like, you know, you're just so clueless about everything. And that was really kind of what I focus on is, look, you know, 20 years ago I was a first year medical student and look what I am now, right? It's no different than being in this world of entrepreneurship and online and you know, making an impact is there are skills that I don't have yet, right? That's not to say I'll never have them, but I just don't have them yet. And as much as I didn't want to believe it, there's no miracle growth for this. You just have to experience, you have to fall, you have to hire the wrong people, you have to screw up the account accounting and learn from your accountant. You have to, you know, try a couple of different computer platforms and learn. And then once you put that time in, no different than the, the first time you learn how to ride a bike or tie your shoes, then it just becomes easier and easier and you progress to that level of mastery. But you can't, you know, you can't write chapter eight of your book before you've written the introduction, right? So I think to everyone who's out there in these shoes and, and by no means am I a master of this, but I just, I think I've, in the last year or so just learn to be more calm about it and say, you know what, I am on a path, the universe is going to take care of me. I've got a skill set that is needed. I just have to figure out how to put it out there. And if I don't know, find a coach, find a mentor, find someone who's been there before because there are no news, new ideas under the sun, right? And there are people who can help you, right? They can be force multipliers to get, you know, like I think of that game Chutes and Ladders that we played when we were kids, right? The board game is that there are people that can increase your level, two levels, you know, with just one 30 minute session, right? So lean into coaching, double down on yourself, invest in yourself the same way all of us invested in whatever form of education we had.

Yeah, you bring up a good point. Because I, I feel like coaching like when you, when you're in residency, you're the resident and you have mentors that are pouring into you, right? Their years of clinical experience and you can learn from anybody, right? You can learn where the bathroom is from the janitor or anybody, right? You can learn where the supply closet is, you can learn where you know the medications are, the equipment, like the technology, like each day you're learning something new. And you could shortcut that, that path by working with somebody and asking for help, right? You could hold it in all day, or you could ask where the bathroom is and, and find the answer within a minute or two. And I feel like that's an important skill set that often gets overlooked a lot of times, usually what I've encountered, and maybe you've encountered that, not. Maybe not for you, necessarily, because you're parents are physicians. But for some of us, we might be the first person ever in healthcare. We might be the most educated person in our family, and because of that, we've always been the person who has all the answers. But then if we're not trained as entrepreneurs or business owners, which many of us health professionals are not trained in, then we've got to find somebody who can help us in those areas, just like we had somebody help us in the clinical area. So I do feel like the closest thing to a time machine is finding a mentor, finding a leader, somebody who can take you under their wings and help you and support you and kind of show you the way. And they've likely made all the mistakes so they can empathize with the questions that you have, the concerns that you might have, the mental roadblocks, emotional roadblocks, financial roadblocks that you might have and help you overcome those because they've had to overcome those. And when you surround yourself with a community of people who are on a similar path, then that I think that's also a force multiplier because no one person has all the experiences. But collectively, a group of 20, 30, 40, 50 people, or whatever that number is, chances are somebody in that community has faced that challenge that you're trying to solve and solved it, or at least made mistakes and figured out ways not to solve it, or has a.

Different perspective and reframes it for you, right? I mean, you know, you know, similar to medical education is mentors can come in the most unlikely of places, Right? And so it doesn't have to be a specific program. Like I have, you know, patients of mine or clients of mine who've done my program that are like, hey, you know what, Dr. B? Like, you know, what if you tried this, right? Or, you know, this is what we do in my business. And, you know, I think one of the hardest things to do is to just open your mind, right? And receive honest feedback. Nobody likes, nobody likes Negative feedback. Right. Nobody's like, yes, I get a one star review out of five. Right. But you know, these are opportunities to learn and don't let your ego get in the way of your success. Right. Is that, you know, I've learned a lot of hard lump lessons. I do med tech consulting and work with startups as well. And you know, some of the hardest things for founders to hear in that space is, you know, why don't you try this? Maybe we can try it a different way because they're so ingrained in their mind as to. No, this is how it has to be. That, you know, it happens at all levels. That, that, you know, people are resistant to change. Right. But, but be open, you know, always again, have that, that big goal in mind. And you know, I say the path of success is paid for speed bumps and potholes. Right. So, you know, if you don't have speed bumps and potholes. Potholes. You might not pushing. Be pushing hard enough. Right. So, so lean. I like how you said that. Lean into it. And going back to the surfing example, you know, is that some days the ocean is just teaching me patience. I'll go out there for an hour, two hours, not catch a single wave. And I, I, I, rather than getting frustrated about it, I'm like, okay, what was I, you know, what was I learning? Maybe I needed to shift my weight back on the board or lean a little bit more forward or paddle a few more times. Or maybe I wasn't reading the, the waves correctly because you can look at failure in a few different ways. But if you look at it in terms of an opportunity to learn something you didn't know, again, reframing your brain around it. Life is full of lessons, right? And you just have to be smart enough to learn them. So, so I think that's an interesting way to put that.

I love that. What, what are some of the lessons you've learned along the way? That perhaps some breadcrumbs you can leave for us so that others may not make those same mistakes.

Yeah. So I say, number one, always be driven by purpose and if, and never lose sight of that. Right. I mean, in the, in the dark hours, like, I can't tell you how many times I, you know, almost called my old job back to say, hey, you know, do you have any openings or can I cover a weekend for you? But that's out of, out of phase with what I'm trying to do, right. So, so I remain purpose driven. You know, number two, be patient with yourself. I think a lot of people. And certainly I was like this too. I thought, oh, you know what, I'm going to start a business and there'll be a multimillion dollar business in the next few years. But it takes time. Things take time, similar to being a medical student. Like you can't go from being a third year medical student to being a tenth year attending. Like there's experience and things that happen. So just be patient, understand the process and celebrate the wins, no matter how small. Any step forward is a step forward. I think early on, identify the things that you like to do and the things that you don't like to do. I guess you're half an elf kind of thing, right? And for the things that you don't like, then hire someone to do those things for you. Because I think a lot of times those can be stumbling blocks, you know, for me, you know, getting a web page design, right? Not something I'm trained to do. So I found someone to do that for me, right? And in, you know, what took him three hours or six hours would have taken me six weeks. And that six weeks of me not getting my message out there, right? So, so doing that, you know, finding people to help you. And another thing that I learned is hire slow and fire quickly. I think I, I did the wrong way and I said hire fast and fire slow. But you know, really take the time to vet people who help you, you know, and, and a friend's recommendation, be the best. You know, it's just like dating, right? Someone might be great for somebody else, but not the right partner for you necessarily. So really take that time to bet someone. Be in the trenches, get an idea of what they can do. Don't be bashful. This is your business, this is your life, right? So ask the questions that you want to ask and if it's not working, you know, get out, right? Like, I mean, just have outs in the contract and stuff. Pay the money that you owe, right? Like if there's money owed in the contract. But you know, pivot quickly, right? Like fail off and pivot quickly I guess would be the, the, the way to put that all together. Because nothing's going to go 100 as planned, right? But you just have to know what, what are the, what are your next steps? What are you going to do?

What's something that's gone better than you.

Expected, you know, better than I expected, I think is social media, to be honest with you. I, you know, I, I was really nervous about putting myself out there. I'm, you know, I'm Kind of an extroverted introvert. Right. So. So in real life, if you meet me, I'm probably the guy hiding out in the corner, but on camera I can be out there. But it, it, it takes a lot, particularly as a doc who's never really done that before, to put yourself out there. But it's been really well received, I think. And, and again, I'm learning. And I think, I think Sachin, you were the one that told me, you know, now is the time you'll have the fewest possible followers you'll have. Right. Like, if you're growing. So just put it out there. Right? And, and don't be nervous. And like I said, it's been well received. The message is getting out there. So. Yeah, that's probably the one thing that I was like, wow, that, that was actually a lot less difficult than I thought it would be.

Yeah, I think we, you know, there's something, I believe Andrew Huberman talked about this, and he talked about the perceived pain of doing something is actually much higher than actually doing it.

Right.

So a cold plunge could probably be a good example of that. The perception of how painful and uncomfortable and how cold it's going to be is often a much greater deterrent than the actual act of doing it itself. So, so many people, they might be afraid of putting their webinar out there, or they might be putting. Be afraid of doing the webinar, not just putting it out there, but doing it, or their lead magnet or, you know, even their offer. And then once they do it, they realize, oh, my God, this isn't as painful, but it's the first time we do something that it's the most uncomfortable because oftentimes outside of our comfort zone. And I always tell people, you know, our comfort zone is where our dreams go to die.

I call it the velvet coffin. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So it's, it's nice to, it's nice to jump out of the comfort zone just to know that A, you're not going to die, and B, that that a whole other world awaits you when you're in that zone.

Yeah, I've definitely kind of changed my mindset from ready, aim, aim again, aim a third time, take a look, get someone else's opinion, Aim, fire to a ready, fire, aim situation. You know, a job done is better than a job undone. Right. So, like, I remember when I did my first webinar, you know, you kind of put this call to action. All right, everyone write down your date and do a webinar. And, and a Lot of people put dates down and didn't follow through. And I, you know, was like, screw it. Like, what? What's going to happen? What's the worst that can happen? I'm not going to die if I do a bad webinar. And it was a great experience, and it converted really well for me. Like, I just realized, you know, I should be doing more of these. But, you know, I think the hardest thing, you know, the journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step. Everyone's heard that, but you don't realize how difficult that first step can be, right? But just take it, right, and know that there's a community of people that. That are there to help you. Like, nobody's. Nobody's rooting for someone else's failure. I don't think in the functional medicine community, I don't think I've ever kind of heard somebody happy about someone not doing well. Whereas in the conventional medicine community, I remember when I first came out as an interventional cardiologist, fresh out of training, people were hoping that I would have complications in my procedures so that I wouldn't be seen as a competitor, right? Just a completely different. That scarcity mindset versus the abundance mindset, right? So just put it out there. Have a webinar. Steve Martin talks about this, how he used to perform at Disneyland here in Anaheim, and he would perform to empty audiences, right? So there was nobody in the audience, and he still went through the act of presenting or doing his comedy routine or whatever it was that he was presenting because it was still time on stage, right? So I've done webinars for, you know, probably a maximum of 50 people, and I've done some for two people, and I still put the same amount of energy and effort, because every time I do it, that fear chips away more and more. Those barriers chip away more and more, and I say, hey, you know what? Yeah, you want me to do a webinar tomorrow or speech tomorrow? Fine. Just, you know, tell me where and when, and I'll show up. You know, it's not, oh, my gosh, I can't sleep. What am I going to say? It's. Now that I've done it so many times, I'm just like, all right, I can get it done. So take that first step. Dive in. Nothing bad's gonna happen. You know, just do it.

Yeah, you got to put in the reps. And, you know, Jared would say this quite often. He was coaching. He was paraphrasing his coach, and he would say that, listen, if you Want to look like someone who deadlifts £400? Deadlift, £400, that's right.

If you want to learn book, you know, he just wrote this book, the 7 Habits of Being Useful or something. Is it 7. 7 Tools for Life to be useful. And one of the things he says in there, it's very similar, is you can't pay someone else to do the reps for you. Right. You have to do it yourself. And as someone who lifted. Who's dead. Lifted 400 pounds, I definitely know that it takes a journey to get there. And. And yeah, you definitely will look like it if you practice that journey.

Absolutely. And so that's the thing, like, a lot of times we might see the. The most polished version of some. Right. And we are seeing, you know, every time I present, it's, it's obviously, I hope, incrementally better, sometimes maybe even orders of magnitude better than my previous presentation. And the same thing with you. Every time we do it, we just get better and better and better at it. And that's what people see, Right. They're going to forget what you. What happened last time, if there was a blunder or an issue, because people, believe it or not, are cheering for you. They want you to be successful. Right. They're, you know, we're not necessarily polished public speakers, Right. And that's not the, the stage that we're stepping on. We're not in a public speaking contest or in a webinar contest. We're trying to connect with our audience who has a problem. And, you know, they've got, you know, you know, a challenge, and we have the solution to that challenge. And the more we can put ourselves out there and get in front of people and express that solution, whether it's polished or unpolished doesn't matter because guess what? They have no answers right now.

Well, and I would even put that a different way, is the more you put off your message and your messaging, the longer other people are going to suffer. Right.

And.

And when you put it in that frame, yeah, you know, it may not be perfect. The webinar might be 70% done, you know, but even if that reaches two people and changes their lives, I mean, what a big difference it makes. Right? And so it almost becomes, I kind of, for me, frame it that way to make myself. Nobody wants to be selfish, right. But I almost kind of put it that way, is, you know, if I'm taking the time to do what. What I want to do, the way I want to do it, that's preventing other people from being the best version of themselves, right? So why am I so selfish to put my needs in front of somebody else's? Right. Again, it speaks to the martyrdom narrative of healthcare, but it really kind of motivated me to just get moving.

Right.

Even when I started, you know, the program and started my version of the metabolic reset, I was not ready, right. Like, I was, you know, it was just. I was like that one week ahead guy, right. Like, I remember I would release modules on Monday morning and I was recording them on Sunday night. That was, you know, a few years ago. And I'm still using some of those modules today, right? Because I think we all want to be perfect, but, you know, but better is the enemy of good, right? So just get it out there. And, you know, and I've had, you know, 200 people plus through my program, right? So imagine if I had wanted it to be perfect and never put it together. That's 200 people whose lives would have been horrible. Like, I have, you know, so many people coming off of their medicines and changing their lives. One person ran their first 5k and one person, one of my clients is now a surf buddy who could, he could never find a wetsuit that could fit him. Like he was, you know, that overweight and now, you know, he's coming out. I think of the impact that that had on them. And had I decided to wait, you know, who knows what would have happened for these folks, right? So, so get your message out there. Even if it's an imperfect message or the messaging isn't perfect, the message is perfect, right? The, the, what you're trying to say is, is perfect. And the way you need to say it may need wordsmithing. That's fine, that's going to happen, but that's never going to end. Right. Like, I'm always trying to figure out something better to say or a better way to say it.

Yeah. And, and it shows you've done the work. So I want to obviously acknowledge you for that. You've got a wonderful passion and that shines through. And I. And it, you know, just kind of goes to. One of the first things you said is really finding your sense of purpose and speaking about something that A, you're confident about and B, that, that lights you up. I think that's, that's very huge. And, you know, if the idea of putting your message out there in the world doesn't light you up, then perhaps we need to investigate and evaluate. Is this something that I actually want to do or am I doing this because it's working for somebody else. Because here's what I realized. There's. There's a reason we procrastinate, and the reason we procrastinate is we actually don't want to do it. There is a part of our subconscious that's sparing us the pain of actually doing this thing that we don't want to do. And it's. It's called procrastination. I find that the things that I want to get done, get done. And we can all think of those things. Right. There's so many things that we just put our mind to it and it gets done because there's. There's a. There's just something drawing us to. To doing it. But if we're kicking around the can when it comes to putting our message out there, our webinar out there, maybe that's not what we're meant to do. Maybe there's something different that we're meant to do. So I would even invite people to question that. Right. If it doesn't excite you, if it doesn't light you up, then what does? Light you up. And maybe do that instead. Because if it lights you up, you'll do it frequently. You'll do it with a smile on your face. You'll be willing to get bruised and bumped. Right. If. If. For example, if that, you know, Devin loves playing basketball. Devin's my son, for those of you that don't know. And, you know, if he gets bumps and bruises, like, he doesn't care.

Yeah, Right.

He just gets back up and he keeps playing. But if he got those same bumps and bruises doing something he didn't like. Right. Then he probably wouldn't continue. Right. He'd probably be like, oh, this sucks. I don't want to do this because he doesn't enjoy it. And that's what I think all of us should investigate as well, is what lights you up. I know for you, Sanjay, you're great in front of a. Great on video, great on radio, great at public speaking. But there might be things that you don't like, do. Maybe you don't like writing, whereas other people might enjoy writing and not like public speaking. So just find your craft as well. There's room for everybody in all mediums. Well.

And I think don't obsess with doing everything right. Just focus on the things that you're really good at. Right. Like, if you think of anyone, like. Like Michael Jordan. I grew up in Chicago. Right. Amazing basketball player, kind of a baseball player. Right. Like. Like, no, that doesn't. Nobody says, oh, Michael Jordan, the bad baseball player. No, no. I mean he's, you know, he did really well, but we focus on his successes and I don't. Yeah, I think what you said, you know, two things. Number one, authenticity, right? Like when I talk about cardiometabolic and cardiovascular disease, it's in my lane as a cardiologist. I'm not focusing on menopause or Lyme disease or gluten because it just, those are definitely needed things. But it just doesn't excite me, right. It doesn't speak to my soul. And then, yeah, I lean into things. I think you're exactly right. I love being on camera, I love doing interviews, I love being on the TV news and all that stuff. I don't necessarily love writing vlogs, right? Like, I don't like sitting at a computer and doing that stuff. Not to say that I don't do it, but you know, that's not where my main messaging goes out, right. And so I think in all things in general in life, you know, authenticity really shines. And when you're in that kind of your zone of genius, you know, doing what it is that you want to do the way you want to do it, that just radiates, right. People know, it just, it just hits people differently than if I were to say, yeah, I'm a cardiologist, but you know, I'm, and I'm a, you know, almost 50 year old male, I'm gonna talk about menopause, hormones, even though I've never experienced that, right? There's not to say that you can't be that person, but it just doesn't, it just doesn't excite me, right? So when I have that statement, even in the tone of my voice you heard, you know, oh yeah, whatever. As opposed to when I'm talking about cardiometabolic disease. Oh my God. This is the thing we, you know, so, so find that, Find your zone. Find what excite excites you. Hit that wave, ride it into shore, right? Like, like know what you want to do. And I think a lot of times that clarity is difficult because again, we want to be everything to everybody. And you need to niche down and figure out who your tribe is and who are the people that you want to speak to. But, but spending that time and it took me actually, you know, months to figure out my clarity of who exactly I wanted to serve. And ultimately, and I don't know if it was you, Sachin, or one of the other podcasts I listened to said, you know, think about in my clinical practice, you know, who are the patients that come in that just excite you? Oh, Mr. So and so is coming in today. Mrs. Oh, yes. I love when they come by. Right. And as opposed to the energy vampire type people that are like, oh man, you know this, it's Monday. This person is my 5pm on Friday clinic visit. My whole week is going to be shot. Because I know that I had that look forward, that person to look forward to, Right? Those are the energy vampires that suck life out of you. So really kind of speak to the people that excite you. Right. Like I was just talking, I have an unofficial mentee and she was asking me, you know, in the functional medicine journey, you know, what, what should I focus on? And I said, well, focus on the people you like. Like people that if you hung out with them all day in and day out, you'd be excited to hang out with. Think of them as friends first and clients or patients later. And that's who, who you're meant to serve on this planet. Don't worry about everybody. There's a hundred thousand practitioners serving. You know, however many people you get the opportunity, you have the benefit of being able to cut your own slice out of the cake. Right. And, and if you want a letter, if you want a flower, you know, my daughter's are always fighting over which piece of the cake they get. Right. But, but you get to select what you want, right. And you get to serve that community and kick butt at serving them. So said get that clarity of focus before you've designed a program, before you've done anything, figure out who those people are. Right. And, and really lean into that. And you know, as they say, you'll never work a day in your life.

Right.

It's awesome.

Yeah. So huge. So I know you're up to some big things. I'd love to share with our audience some of the things that you're up to now. And you've got your metabolic wellness program, and you've also got a longevity center that you're opening, right?

Yeah, So a lot of different things. So, you know, one of the things that I will say is leaving. As difficult as it was to leave conventional medicine, what you put out in the universe, you get back and opportunities. It's like I'm, I don't necessarily want to say I'm swatting them away like flies, but definitely things that I have always wanted done but couldn't have done before are now becoming opportunities. So, yeah, my metabolic program is called well, 12, we, it's 12 week program work a lot for cardio metabolic optimization, you know, and, and for people who live in the state of California, where I'm licensed, we can add in components of lab testing and whatnot. But it's really been transformative for me and my patients to see how much diet and lifestyle can really affect your cardiovascular health and improve your cardiovascular health. I've got people coming to me with labs, doctors calling me, asking me what I'm doing with these patients, with their patients, because it, the changes just multiply and then, you know, I think at its very base, cardiovascular medicine is longevity medicine, right? Because as you said, heart disease is the number one killer. So as I kind of lean into the longevity space, I have a partner and we are opening up our first location in Newport Beach, California of Lionheart Longevity, which is a med spa. So we're doing the normal med spa things, but with the focus on longevity. We have a number of proprietary technologies through bioelectric signaling that actually increase proteins and DNA repair, increase a protein called Clotho or Clotho, that is a master antioxidant of the body. In clinical trials, it's actually been shown to reverse vascular calcification. In animals, it's shown to improve renal health. So kidneys that are fibrosed come back to life. It's actually secreted by the kidney, blood pressure, lower cancer, all the things. And rather than injecting it, we're actually able to use the body's electrical machinery to increase Clotho synthesis. So we've shown that in clinical trials also follistatin and different collagen proteins. And it falls under this kind of whole idea of longevity and regenerative aesthetics, regenerative medicine. But really this next chapter of my life, I kind of have two kind of buzzwords. Number one is to heal at scale and really increase my scope. And that's what the metabolic program and group, group work has kind of taught me, is how to heal at scale. But number, number two is to heal, not treat, right? And so rather than just treating with medicines and, and surgeries and procedures is really healing the body, right? And, and so bioelectric signaling, you'll see is kind of this really up and, or bioelectric therapies, I should say in general are really up and coming, being used for cancer therapies, for hypertension, for metabolic arrangements, all sorts of things. So it's really exciting to be on the mind of something so new. But yeah, really cool opportunities floating on a, you know, daily, weekly, monthly basis.

I love that, you know, there's something to be said about having the space in our calendar for opportunities. And the universe doesn't like vacuums, so it. It tends to fill up space. And when our schedules are overly booked, then it's hard for opportunity to find its way on our calendar. So one of the things that I do is I don't keep my Fridays are off my calendar in the sense that you can't book an appointment with me on Friday unless I book it on Friday. So there's always that opportunity to squeeze in more opportunity that week if something's urgent and it comes up, or to explore. And, you know, so I think leaving white space in our calendars is huge, and it's often overlooked. Sometimes we feel like we just got to fill our calendars, and the more we fill them up, the more successful we'll be. But if there isn't room for new things to come your way, then obviously that's a problem. And it's clear that by adding some white space to your calendar, not that you're sitting around twiddling your thumbs, but having that space has led to more opportunities and for you to be able to say yes to those opportunities.

And your brain just works differently when you're not time crunched all the time, right? I mean, we talked about sympathetic comparison to drive, right? Like, you just become more creative, right? Like you just see things differently. You get new perspective, right? For me, that's, you know, I'm being on the water, you know, as going back to surfing. Like, there's, you know, 20 minutes of weight or 10 minutes or three minutes of wait followed by 20 minutes of nothing as you're waiting for the next set to roll in. Those are times where you're just sitting there pondering, right, Thinking about the big things in life and. And so many epiphanies come during that white space time that I think it's hugely important that you schedule it.

It.

But you also don't pressure yourself, oh, this is my time to brainstorm and come up with the next great American novel. But, you know, let yourself explore. Do something weird, do something stupid, try something new. You know, it's amazing how just becoming novice at something. Jocko will, like, talks about this, right? Becoming novice at something really changes your brain, you know, I mean, I guess in a sense every. I'm novice to everything now, being in the entrepreneur space, a new entrepreneur.

But.

But giving yourself that time and that space to explore, I think is hugely important and something that most of us don't do.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, very well said, Sanjay. Where can people learn more about the work that you're doing? You know, give us some social media links that they can go to, maybe a website that they can go to if they want to. Yeah.

So on socials, I am at Dr. SunjMD doc T O R S a N J a Y m D and my program is called Well12. So you can go to www.well12health health to learn more about the metabolic program and just, you know, reach out on socials if there's questions, if there's something that I can kind of help with. You know, as someone who's in the space kind of, I don't want to necessarily say player, coach, but someone who's living it and trying to figure it out on a daily basis. You know, nothing gets me more excited than supporting people coming into this space. Right.

And.

And answering the questions. And I think again, most people such. And definitely in your community and our community, I guess I should say, you know, are. Are excited to hear from you, but, you know, go to the meetings, network, meet people. Everybody wants everybody to be successful. And I think that's one of the things that. That kind of abundance mindset is just so prevalent in the functional medicine universe that ask. Right. But. But yeah, just reach out.

Feel free.

Happy to chat with you.

Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. Much love. Hoping to see you and hug you soon.

I know, right? Like, we need to meet again in three dimensions or I guess for the first time in three dimensions. But yeah, we'll sort something out.

It's. It's happening. It's already. The wheels are the steps.

We just put it out in the universe. Now there's not. There's no way it can't happen. Right. We just put it out there.

There we go, brother. Much love. Have an awesome, awesome rest of your day. Say hi to the family for me and thank you for your. For your time today.

All right, take care.

All right. Appreciate you, Pip.