The Power of Simplicity: Rethinking Health and Disease

Tom Cowan, thank you for joining me today. It's a pleasure to have you here. I'm super excited for our conversation. We had a chance to meet very briefly at an event that we both attended. You were actually the keynote speaker at, and you left the crowd speechless. So this is a full circle moment for me, and I'm super, super excited to dive a little bit deeper into the work that you do and also learn about some of the ways that you think and how you approach health and how you look at things. It's so unique and fascinating and different, and I'm so excited to explore this conversation with you. Thank you for joining me today.

All right, thank you. Glad you're find it of value. I guess that's good.

Yeah, well, you know, I find value in anyone who has a perspective that's new, that makes sense, that they can back up with evidence. And I know that's something that you're really, really good at, and I, you know, I'm really thrilled see where this conversation goes. You know, the event that you were speaking at, you know, the, the audience there was, you know, a gasp at some of the concepts that you were sharing, and it really made us kind of scratch our head and, and question so many of the things that are foundational in our training. And, you know, it's, it's. I'm always, I'm always looking at what's disruptive when it comes to thinking. And what you presented was very disruptive to our kind of dogmatic way of looking at cells, looking at the heart, looking at parasites. And so, yeah, this is going to be really cool and fascinating. So let's start with parasites. I know that you've got a very unique perspective on parasites and the role that they play in health. I'd love for you to start there and share.

Okay. This isn't something that I've spent a huge amount of time, but I have friend, his name is Daniel Reutes, and he wrote a book called can youn Catch a Cold? The answer is basically no. But he came on to my show and gave a presentation on parasites. And then I've looked into it myself. So here's the story and that, you know, the first thing I would say to anybody listening to me is the biggest revelation in my intellectual life was when I got firmly convinced that the path to take was the path of finding claims and finding out whether they were true and not worrying about whether I knew what was true. In other words, investigating claims. So, and, and I could give you examples of why that's the way. That's what's called science, really. You know, somebody says, okay, here's the example. Somebody says there's parasites and they cause disease. That is a very specific claim. Now, I just want to point out we're not going to talk about necessarily what might have caused that person to be sick. That's an interesting subject and we could talk about that. But. But that's not relevant to the claim. There's parasites, they make you sick. Now, with parasites, there's two kinds, broadly speaking, of parasites. There's protozoa, single celled parasites like Babesia and the malaria parasite, and schistosomiasis parasite and leishmaniasis and a bunch of other ones, right? Single cell organisms. And then there's worms like helminths and roundworms and hookworms. So just to get to the punchline, in order for something to cause an illness, it obviously has to exist. That may sound stupid, but. So the first question is, what is the evidence that these protozoa actually exist? Now, interestingly, this has been a very hotly debated topic in the early days of protozoa research, particularly about malaria. And so what happened was they would take somebody who was sick, like went to a swampy place and they got a fever and chills, etc. And they got sick. And then they would look in their blood and they would see these forms and they would say that's what made them sick, right? Now, in order to be scientific about it, you would have to say, you would have to prove that that was an independent organism that somehow infected that person and then caused the symptoms. And the only way you can do that is by isolating that organism, right, and then giving that to somebody in the way that you say that it happened, like through a mosquito and showing that it caused sickness. But what they found is that those forms were identical in people who had different kinds of illness or no illness at all. And in fact, they were basically the breakdown products of our red blood cells. They weren't an independent organism at all. And so when they tried to isolate them and show they caused sickness, they failed. And I would go on on record right now as saying, if you can show me any study that isolated a malaria parasite and gave it to a person and caused the sickness, I will retract what I just said, but I know that study doesn't exist. And so then they go into years of the 17 stages of the malaria parasite in our blood, right, which are just 17 different breakdown products. And then they go and say like, well, you can't find these unless you stain them with a certain stain, and then you put them in acetone or you put them in this. And it turns out that when you do the same thing to a red blood cell, you get these identical, 17 different forms. So at the end of the day, the conclusion is, and this is the same thing with Babesia or all the other protozoa, that there is no evidence that these are outside free, living, independent organisms that have ever been shown to make anybody sick. And I can pretty much guarantee you that if you go looking in the medical literature as Daniel and then I have, you won't find such a thing. Sort of the same with viruses. They have never been shown to exist. So that's with protozoa. Now, with worms, they do exist, right? You can see them, you can isolate them. But if you feed them to a person in this sort of normal way, they don't cause sickness. In fact, when you actually start doing studies, it looks like they feed on dead and dying tissue. They also feed on, like, metallic waste in the body. And when the dead and dying tissue is gone, they go away. So what's the role of Paris of worms? So not protozoa have never been shown to exist. Worms have a beneficial function, just like they do in nature, right? You cut down a tree, you get worms eating the tree. Nobody says the tree has an infection or the worms kill the tree. And yet we go around killing protozoa that don't exist and poisoning worms, you know, poisoning us to kill the worms. And sometimes you see a remission of the symptoms, but that's just because when. If the. If they're there cleaning up dead and dying tissue, you will get symptoms with that dead and dying tissue being eliminated from your body. That doesn't prove it was the cause of the infection. And so, bottom line is, if you want to say this organism is the cause of a certain set of symptoms, you better show a study that they took that organism and only that organism, and showed that it caused those symptoms. And that's never been done.

Wow, that puts a lot of things, ideas on their head. You know, it's. We've been kind of conditioned to think a certain way. Parasite or protozoan or worm, and here's the protocol for it, and then the person should feel better. But, you know, I've had experiences where you think you're doing what's right for the patient, and according to, you know, kind of the algorithm, they should be feeling better. But that's not always the case.

It's not and by the way, like, if you take somebody who you say has parasites and you give them wormwood, right? And then they feel better. And then you say to yourself, I just proved that wormwood, they had A, they had a parasite infection, B, worm would kill the parasites, right? The problem is wormwood also detoxifies your liver. That's not a problem, but that's a fact. And it helps get rid of, like, metals and other debris. So it may be that you just helped the person. I'm not saying the person didn't get better. I'm saying the mechanism that you say you proved or you're using or thinking was true, that does not prove it. Just like antibiotics don't prove you had a bacterial infection. And I can tell you whether it's with syphilis or strep or gonorrhea. Show me one study. Bacteria exists unlike viruses or like worms and protozoa. All you have to do is show me a study that you expose a person to a culture of only bacteria and they get sick. I mean, they've put, you know, men's penises in a culture of syphilis organisms. Nothing happens. Same with gonorrhea. And if you don't believe me, I don't want to hear, oh, you slept with somebody and got sick. Because there's a lot of things involved in that encounter, right? A lot of things. In fact, they used to treat people with syphilis with mercury, which ends up going, concentrating in the vaginal secretions. And then if you have intercourse, the mercury and the vaginal secretions irritate your penis. And, and by the way, causes lesions which are. Look just like syphilis. So you can't use that as an example. You just have to be clear and scientific. Know just the bacteria. Show me it cause disease, and I guarantee you won't find it. In fact, you'll find just the opposite.

So the, the old way of thinking seems very convenient, right? Because we can supposedly identify what the problem is, provide some sort of, you know, either natural or pharmaceutical intervention, and then, poof, the problem is gone. So I'd love to know where that way of thinking came from. And I'd also love to know what sparked your way of thinking. You know, what was it that made you say, hey, this isn't quite right, this doesn't make sense to me.

I mean, you know, a lot of medical and biological and even other thinking like that, that's when they, they invented the atom. And I say invent them because there's no such thing as an atom. They made that up. And this all happened in the late 1800s. They, they made up that were made of cells because somebody saw cut up an onion and saw these compartments and said, everybody, every living thing is made of cells. Which is a bit of a leap. You know, guy named Rudolph Verschau did that. And so they started with germs make you sick. And atoms are what we're made of. And a whole lot of other things happened then. And so there was a wholesale change in the way people see, saw the world. Now it so happened that this change in the way that people saw the world all were towards a certain end, which is a believe in materialism. I don't mean money, but that we're only made of stuff. Like that's a pretty big leap right there. Because I used to ask heart surgeons, you know, you know, like, do you love your wife? Yes, with all my heart. If you cut up somebody's heart, do you see love in there? No. Where? I thought you just told me that we're only made of physical things, right? There's no love thing in the heart. Yet. We think that. So anyways, they convinced people that we're just a bunch of atoms that quote, evolved. You know, if we used to be slime, mold and then gorillas, and now we're people, which is baloney. And you know, and so they, so they made up this science. Now it all is towards getting people to be materialists and victims and consumers of pharmaceuticals and a whole bunch of other things. So was it deliberate? I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there. But it certainly promoted an agenda. So you didn't do anything. You know, you just got this virus. And so then you have to do get somebody to inject you with poison so you don't get the virus. You didn't do anything. It's just bacteria flew through the air and, and crawled up your nose. And so you have to take this pharmaceutical to get rid of it.

So it begs the question, where do we come from and what are we made of?

Well, like I said, I'm not necessarily here to give answers because I don't know. I don't know how we got here, but I know that the idea that there is no documented case of one species turning into another, the examples that are used by Darwin and everybody since have all failed. In fact, the whole theory of mutations and natural selection and guided evolution, there's not an example that we know of a beneficial mutation. And even more than that, if you go looking for how do you know that there's actually DNA in a living person or a living being that you will immediately have problems proving that? And what do I mean by that? So, like, if I said to you, do you know how they prove that you have DNA in your tissues?

Enlighten me.

So in other words, you don't know. Right? And I didn't know either. So I'm not picking on you. But you have all these people, lay people, scientists, biologists, you know, doctors, medical doctors, et cetera, naturopaths that talk about genetics and epigenetics. And I say to them, how did they prove that DNA exists in a living system? I don't know. Then how do you know? Why do you believe in it? Like, if you don't, it's like taking your car to a mechanic and saying it won't stop. And he says, I think there's something wrong with my brakes. And the mechanic says, what are. What's a break? Right? You know, you wouldn't. You wouldn't. You would question that person like, what are you doing here? So I looked into it. How did they prove it? You know, they take pus and they wash it and they get the nucleus, and then they dry it and centrifuge it and filter it, and then they mix it with phosphoric acid, and they get this precipitate, and then they dry it again and precipitate it, and then they get this chemical, and it's rich in phosphorus, by the way. When they did it with sulfuric acid, they got chemicals rich in sulfur. Go figure. Yeah, right. Go figure. And so then they say, so this is a new chemical. It's DNA. And if I was there, I'd say, yo, how do you know that these procedures that you did didn't create something that wasn't actually there in the living system? It's like when they found testosterone. Everybody believes they have testosterone in them, right? Like you think you have test. If I said to you, how did the first guy find testosterone in a testicle?

You know that I have no idea. No idea, right?

So that. And again, I'm not picking on you. I just think. I didn't know either. And I've been a doctor for 35 years, and somebody says, and it turns out, guy grinds up a testicle, you know, mixes it with chemicals, centrifuge it, dries it, blasts it. And then he. Then he precipitated it with acetone seven times. Because the guy who did it six times didn't get anything pure. Now, I'M thinking to myself when I read this, because I go back and read these things. So here you are in a lab, and you know that this other guy, he did it with acetone six times and he didn't get anything. So you're thinking, I know what the problem is. I'm going to do it seven times.

Was there somebody did it eight times?

No. Well, seven times he got it, and then he got a Nobel Prize for isolating testosterone. And that became the proof that there was testosterone. And here's the thing. If you say to him, you know, you have to. There's such a thing as controls, right? So if you say that, that you have to mix it with acetone seven times, did you mix something else with acetone six times? Did you not use acetone? No. If you don't use acetone, you can't find it. How do you know that the acetone didn't make something appear that wasn't already, that wasn't actually there? The answer can only be, I have no idea. Now, it could be that there's no way to find that out, right? If you can't find it without doing those uncontrollable steps, you have to then have the integrity and honesty to say, we can't know whether you have this chemical in you or not. Now, I'm not saying that testicles don't do anything. I'm just saying that the idea that they work through a chemical is a unscientific assumption. And so I don't believe it anymore. Now, somebody proves it. That's fine. But right now, I don't buy it.

So when we. When somebody orders blood work, right, and they go to the doctor, they order labs, their testosterone comes back low, which what exactly? What the hell are they even measuring?

They're using a chemical procedure which they've been able to standardize, that if you take a blood and you mix it with this chemical and this chemical and this chemical, you get a color change, which we assume is related to this chemical called testosterone.

So then if they then give somebody testosterone replacement therapy, which seems to be all the rage these days, what exactly? And that person hypothetically feels better or sees an improvement in their condition. What is happening there, from your perspective?

So here's the question I would ask. Does giving somebody a chemical and having them have a change in how they feel prove that the problem was a deficiency in the chemical?

Not necessarily.

Right. In other words, somebody could be sad, and you give them some cocaine, and then they feel a lot better. So. So otherwise, then you know they had a cocaine deficiency. So what that tells you is the. The fact that you give them testosterone and they fat felt better doesn't prove they had a testosterone deficiency. Doesn't even prove there was testosterone there. Any more than giving somebody cocaine proves that they had a cocaine deficiency or cocaine is in us. Therefore, you have to go back and do the science and prove there's testosterone in you and prove that this is the only thing you're testing for. And they can't do that. So they use all kind of surrogate things. Now, maybe there's some energetic frequency in your testosterone, which when you do those things, it shows up low. And then when you give chemical testosterone, it relieves some of the symptoms. Because the problem with giving if thinking like that is you think, yeah. The problem is they have low chemical in them. You're back to thinking we're basically a chemistry set, and that's the problem. So they've suckered you into thinking all you are is a collection of chemicals. I give you this chemical, and then you're all better. Well, except you're not all better because then you feel rage and. And then your testicles shrink, and then your hair doesn't grow like it's supposed to, and never mind, because it's pretty close in any ways. You can still have sex.

You know, this is clearly very confronting, I'm sure, for a lot of people, but it's really resonating with me because it's never quite made sense to me the way it's been explained to us.

Yeah, right.

And I've always thought like, okay, I know I'm learning this, and I feel like, okay, everyone else is kind of, you know, know, jumping on this bandwagon, so there must be something to it. But when you really question it at. At its essence and at its source, like we are right now, it starts. Be. It's the. You know, it starts breaking down very quickly.

Yeah.

And it. It almost seems like it's. It's set up in such a way that it. It makes it easy to industrialize and create algorithm algorithms around. But clearly, you know, it's not working because we're not getting healthier as the days go by. We're getting sicker and sicker and sicker. So something's amiss and something is amiss.

Yeah. And it's the foundation, which is you are made of chemicals, which. And then when you go and look for what is the proof that you're made of chemicals, how did you find these chemicals? Whether it's insulin estrogen you know, DNA, you know, it's the same with SO DNA. It's this whole thing, it's a double helix. Right? Everybody knows that. So I asked people who came up with the idea that it's a double helix, do you know Watson and Crick? Watson and Crick, 1953 paper in Nature. Next question. Again, I'm not picking on. Have you ever read the paper?

I have not. No.

Yeah, I have. I have it right here. So first thing that strikes you is there's no measurement in the whole paper. They say, and I, I don't want to get it because it'll take too much time. They say we assumed a rotational angle of 1.6 Angstroms per whatever, which is the definition of a double helix. It's like saying, I got this form in my mind and I'm assuming it's got four angles of 90 degrees. Oh, my God, I found a square. No, you didn't. You made it up so that that's the definition of a square. And they have, they didn't measure anything in the paper. They just made up that's a double helix. And then they took this picture, which they stole from a woman named Rosalind Franklin, who took dried nucleus, did the purification like I talked about, and, and then exposed it to x rays for 63 continuous hours. Now, we're told that DNA is very X ray sensitive. You don't want to get, you know, testicles and all that. So they take this chemical, this powder, and put it under an X ray machine in 1952 for 63 straight hours. And then they get a picture that looks like an X. And they said, well, if you made that three dimensional, it would be a double helix. And I thought, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Because that's like, I mean, first of all, there was no proof that it was actually DNA in the first place. And then Interestingly, in the 70s, group of postdocs at Suffolk University, they recreated the steps of the experiment to get this picture, except they started with the spring of a ballpoint pen and they got an identical picture of an X. So I tell people we're either our material that codes for life, it's either DNA, or it's the spring of a ballpoint pen. That's what we know. And I mean, this is this. It's a joke.

So at what point did you kind of start questioning all of this? Because this is like I was five. Okay, but then going to medical school must have been so painful for you. Like, like.

No, I already knew it was nonsense. I just didn't know. I didn't know the details, you know, I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know how to focus on investigating claims. I kept trying to think of what's true and it's too difficult. It's like the story I tell that I stole from a friend. Guy, 18 years old, he's Asian, his parents are Caucasian. He always wondered about that. He rummages through his parents closet and he finds adoption papers. Goes to his parents, says, was I adopted because I never saw a picture of mom pregnant? Yes, we were waiting to tell you, right? So he knows he's adopted. Goes to his best friend, best friend says. He says to his friend, I, you know, I just found out I was adopted. I'm a little shook up and all that. Friend says, so who are your real parents? Says, I don't know. I think he got me from an orphanage in China. He says, until you tell me who your real parents are, I don't believe you are adopted. That's crazy, right? Because it has nothing to do with it. And he may never find out who his parents were. You know how many people I've said, there's no evidence for a chicken pox virus? And you know what they say to me? So what causes chickenpox? Like, who are your real parents? And that's not. I don't know. I mean, maybe I do know, but it has nothing to do with that question. As soon as I learned to stick with investigating claims, it's like the world opens up because you can't understand what really happens until you get rid of the virus. There's like no room in whatever in the inn, so you just keep, I don't know, you know, as soon as you get rid of it, you sort of hear things and open your mind up to what could have happened. That's when you start learning it. And that's kind of what I was doing, except I didn't know I was doing it until I kind of caught on. You know, the heart isn't a pump and blocked arteries don't cause heart attacks. And I just kept going. DNA doesn't have anything to do with making proteins. And when, if somebody says, well, how did you figure that out? I just figured out. They said, DNA codes for proteins, right? Genes. One gene makes one proteins. So I looked up how many proteins there are. 200,000. How many genes? 10,000. And I thought to myself, wait a minute. Apparently geneticists don't know arithmetic because you can't have 10 genes or 10 10,000 genes coding for 200,000 proteins. If one gene, something is wrong, then you go looking and the whole thing is total nonsense.

It's a cosmic joke. It almost feels like. It's like the more we know, the less we know and the more we believe the dogma, the further we are from what the truth is. And it kind of begs the question for me is it sounds like to me, you know what's wrong, but you're not really hanging your hat on what the absolute truth is. Or are you? I'd love to explore that a little bit further if that's the case.

About what?

About all of this. Like so, you know, we're, we're taught that DNA, we, you know, our proteins are coded through DNA. And if that's not the case, I mean, are you saying that proteins don't exist? Are you saying that there's another way that proteins are coded or structures are created?

As far as I can tell, proteins do exist. I may be wrong about that, but so they must be coded by something else. Now here I'm speculating and I like to tell people when I'm speculating and when I'm not. But I know that organized water is a great receiver of electromagnetic information. I know that from a lot of experiments. So here's the way I would put it. You see, modern science, particularly biology, but it's physics too. Physics is a load of absolute rubbish. They have this. It's like I was driving when I was in California with this 3 year old who worked in my, helped me with my garden. He was three and I was driving with him and somehow an interview with me came on the radio and he looked at me and he said, tom, how'd you get in that radio? And it's a good question, but I obviously wasn't in the radio. So here's modern biology. We take a radio and we say the sound has to be coming from the radio, right? Because I can hear it. So I'm going to dissect the radio, take the wires and the, and the speakers and the plastic and the dial and everything. I'm going to find out where the sound is coming from. And you can do it atom by atom, except there's no atoms, but as small as you can get. And you will never find the origin of the sound because not in the radio, it's from the radio tower, right? So they take a person and they dissect them down to the smallest thing they can see and they're looking for where is the proteins made. It's not there, because it's in the mind of the field, whatever that is. I don't know. You know, it's like the electromagnetic field. Used to call it the ether. Some people call it God, or universal consciousness is a lot of names. So somehow water is a great receiver of that. So the water downloads the information that's needed to create the perfect organism. That's what happens.

You know, I just came back from an Ayahuasca retreat.

There you go. You probably saw it.

And so for four days in a row, I drank this powerful. I don't even like the word medicine, but that's what, you know, people call it. And, you know, it kind of shatters your reality. And it was. It's quite fitting that we're having this conversation. So, like, I almost. To be honest, I almost canceled our. Our interview because I'm still processing from the. This. This past week. And I made the mistake of not blocking my calendar. But clearly it wasn't a mistake because we were having this conversation. And, you know, it made me question everything. I've always been in question of everything, but I've. I've never. The thing that I've never questioned is the source that we're. Sounds like we're describing this, you know, the ether, God, whatever we want to call it. And in my life, it's just. That's been one continuous force for good in my life. And I've seen miracles. I've had miracles happen that could not be explained by physics or biology or, you know, the conventional ways we look at things. And it. It almost like, you know, these type of things get dismissed in conventional medicine because we're so convinced that it has to be biological or physical or, you know, chemical.

Got to be in the radio somewhere.

Yeah, exactly. So I'm. I'm in total alignment with what you're saying. I'm probably not as articulate as expressing myself as you are, and not as decorated at expressing it either.

So, yeah, I got a lot of practice.

So this is, like, really cool to have this conversation.

It's not in the radio. It's somewhere in the field. And what's the field? I mean, I don't. You know, it's. That's a whole big question.

But so it kind of brings me up with. Brings another question to mind for me is like, how do you live your life? So I'm curious as to what your day looks like, what you eat or don't eat, what your thoughts look like. I'm sure you kind of paid very close attention to those Things as well.

I mean, I live on a homestead, and so I get up and feed our four cats. And, you know, I make them food every morning. Like, they eat. There is some packaged meat, but it's like half. It's like a third rabbit, a third elk meat, and then chopped up chicken livers. So I do that. And then I make the. The. The breakfast for the goats, even though they don't really need breakfast, but it's sort of a ritual we have. And then I go out so that three of the cats eat inside, one is in the outside. And then we go to the barn and feed the, you know, the goats, and then we clean up the goats and all that. So that's this first thing I do every morning. And then I do some exercises. I work with a primal movement guy. I don't really like exercising, but he gets me to do it. And then I eat breakfast, which is eggs, either from our place, sometimes vegetables and bread that I make from grinding einkorn flour. And I could go on. I mean, then I do other things and do interviews or whatever, and then we feed the goats. And in the summer and spring and fall, I work in the garden. We grow 95% of our own fruits and vegetables. And that's my life.

Yeah. And then do you have a connection with Source, like, or, like, what's your relationship with God?

I have a connection with Pumpkin. He's as close to Source as anything I've ever met.

Pumpkin's one of your cats or goats?

He's the original cat.

Okay, got it.

In fact, I wrote a booklet called Lessons from Pumpkin, and it's amazing what I've learned from that guy because he knows a lot.

I'd love to hear some of the lessons.

Well, the first lesson, which is the most profound lesson, I think that describes this entire thing, and so I imagine this. So first of all, our cats come and go as they please. You know, there's like, a door they can go out, and there's a whole field and wood, so it's pretty safe. And, you know, but there's coyotes and hawks and I think bears, and there's danger. And there's also food for them. They like chasing birds and mice and squirrels and rabbits. So when he goes out, he sits on the deck and looks around, right? And his ears go like this, and he sniffs the air and he wags his tail. I think tails are electromagnetic sensing devices. And he looks around and he smells. And he sits there about usually five to 15 minutes, and then he goes off where he Wants to go right now. I watched him do this every day, and I thought, what if you told Pumpkin? You know, Pumpkin, there's a danger out there that might kill you, and it's really bad for you, but you can't smell it, see it, taste it, sense it in any way. You have no experience of this thing. That's a mortal danger for you. What would happen to Pumpkin? I think what would happen is he'd run and hide under the bed because how does he know if this thing is going to get him? Because he doesn't smell it. He can't sense it. And then he would have trouble coming out because he doesn't know he can't smell it. And he would smell the air and be anxious. And then his cat friends would. He'd start losing weight, right? And not eating right. And his cat friends would say, see, this thing got you? And he'd start worrying about it. And next thing you know, he would not be the confident, happy little guy who's confident in the world and knows where to go and what he wants to do, right? That's Americans. They have all these things which they have no sense of, like viruses. But if you go out, you can't smell it, you can't taste it, you can't feel it. You don't know, but it's going to kill you. So you got to do all these things, what these guys tell you to do, like wear masks, inject yourself with poisons and. And not see your friends and, you know, eat stupid stuff and all this stuff. And you're never going to know what. What. Whether it's true or not, because you can't sense it. That person is toast. And we have other things. Like, you know, I came to realize, because there's no atoms, and I can get into that, but I probably don't have time. There can't be any atomic bombs. Like, that's a hoax. So we've all these people worrying about atom bombs and they're going to blow us up, and we're two seconds to midnight and it's all just, pumpkin, there's this thing out there is going to get you, and you don't have any sense of it. Bottom line is you can't live like that. And that's. We have like a whole laundry list of things the genes are going to get you, right? You don't know anything about genes. You don't even know if they exist. You can't sense it. The tests that allegedly find them are all bogus and unscientific. But you believe it, right? So Pumpkin wouldn't believe it. He'd say, no, I'm going with what I can smell. I think there's a bear over there. I'm not going there today.

You know, I just had a conversation with a friend of mine and again, just in light of my experience with the medicine with Ayahuasca is that we're all born as these golden little idols. And then all these stories are spray painted onto us. You know, we're, we're scratched and nicked up to forget who we truly are. Right? These are very powerful beings. And you know, and then the world is, you know, explained to us in such a way that might make sense or kind of gives, gives things order and structure and meaning and, and of course, when there's a unifying opinion, it, it allows, it creates safety, like a feeling of safety. But I love what you're saying, this analogy, it's a, it's perfect because that, that's what was coming up for me. You know, we're, we're born, we're. We're here to do something. And when that story starts to change and when somebody else starts writing that story, we start living in fear. And, you know, of course that changes our perception of the world. It changes our behaviors or it alters our story and our destiny. And then we live a terrible life, you know, a life that others prey on and capitalize on. That doesn't necessarily serve, you know, what I would refer to as our creator. And we end up in the world that we're living in. Yeah, it's amazing that people who have so much less material objects can be so much happier and so much healthier. You know, I went to Nicoya, which is, you know, what they call a Blue zone. And the people there weren't even trying to live long. They weren't even trying to do all this that everyone's trying to do. Like all the biohackers and, you know, people who are taking like thousands of supplements a day and doing all these things. And I, and I see them like, I see some very famous biohackers that look 20 years older than they actually are. And it's almost like the universe is kind of laughing back at them and saying, you know, that's not how it works. But they're not getting the message, you know, because they're so, they're so stuck in this material world. And as I've learned, and certainly continue to learn, and it sounds like you've discovered, is that there's so much more than the material world. And even when it comes to health, you know, I used to have a practice where we would do a lot of testing on people. And I came to realize that, you know, at one point, we were ordering the most labs in all of Canada, and I wore that hat with pride, or that badge or whatever you want to call it, with pride. And then I realized that it's the simple things that we can't even test for that are actually producing the most profound results for people. Like, there's no test for. Do you love yourself? Do you love your children? Do you love your spouse? Do you love your parents? Do you have a connection with nature? Do you wake up at, you know, before the sun comes up and greet the sun with love? And. And do you have compassion for other people? Like, there's no lab testing for that.

And.

And so I kind of came to a very similar conclusion that we're kind of wasting people's time, energy, and money doing all these unnecessary things and not really identifying what truly makes us healthy. So we went from ordering tons of labs to ordering very little, if any, labs at this point. And we're getting better, the best results we've ever gotten without supplements and without labs. And it's just amazing to see that and witness that. And now this conversation is even further validation that we're on the right path.

Yeah, Pumpkin doesn't do any laughs, and he doesn't take any supplements. He eats mice, and he loves people. And he hisses occasionally at somebody, you know, if he's pissed, and he snuggles and. And he always. When you feed him, he always. He always rubs against you before he eats to say thank you. Always. It's. And so, you know, and he. He's never had a. Any issue. He just keeps going along. And. But the thing is, he trusts himself. I'm the guardian of what's safe and not safe, and I'm going to rely on that and even work on that. That's what I think. Like, doing ayahuasca, in a way, is. Is. You see, once you believe that you're the one who has to improve your ability to sense things, right, Then you have to work on it and, like, actually spend time with an animal or spend time with a plant or eat differently. And what does that do with. How do I sense things? What if I fast? Do I sense more? Because then you're the one. You're not a victim anymore. I'm in control. I know I can manipulate the parameters here. I can eat this or I can eat That I can walk more, I can sleep more, I can use red lights or white lights and see what I can sense then. But if you don't trust your senses, you. You're not going to get anywhere. That's what pumpkin taught you got to trust. I'm going with what I sense.

I'm curious what your take on wearables is. Because wearables can provide us with kind of what I refer to as a short feedback loop to tell us, hey, this is working for you. I'm curious what your perspective is.

I would never put an electromagnetic device on my body ever. I don't have a cell phone. I use a wired like a cord computer or it's like an ethernet, I guess. And that's the only device I have.

So how is a clinician? Thank you. And I'll share a really fascinating story. So when I was in the medicine, I wear an aura ring. And the first day I was experiencing what you might refer. And I'm going to take it off. So I'm going to share a story. So I'm in what you might describe as a sacred surgery, and I had this huge flower of life pointing at me and it was scanning my body and it got to my hands and it said, you brought an intruder.

Referring.

Referring to the aura ring. And so I immediately took it off and I got the message loud and clear. And I said, no, you have to remove it from the maloka, which is the room that we were in. So then I had to get up for my journey and literally walk outside the room and drop my bag outside the room so that I could continue with the, you know, sacred surgery. And. And so that was really fascinating.

Yeah, it's a smart surgeon.

Yeah. Yeah. That was quite a clear message that I got.

Yeah, I would never do that. I. I mean, I've fiddled around with like biogeometry things and you know, I have. I have all of stuff and shungite and orgone and you know, I don't know if any of it works really. But, you know, we are electromagnetic beings. And if you're starting to put an electromagnetic device attached to your body, that's a problem.

So it's altering, from what I'm gathering, it's alter. Altering the structure of the water in your body.

Exactly.

Which is then changing how the body, the information that it perceives from the ether, so to speak.

Yeah.

And. And then the. There's a consequence of that because we're.

Changing the molecular confirmation make wonky proteins then. Wonky is a scientific term. For, but that's if that's where you make you from information essentially downloaded into the water. It's just like, you know, Veda Austin's, you put or a Masero motu, you put love on a bottle and it changes the structure of the water. So that's the mediator between this electromagnetic world and the so called physical world. And if you're putting information in there that's, you know, not real from the world, you're going to create a man made structure. Now that gets you into who's the man who made that structure. Somebody programmed that device. And I don't trust him. Neither does Pumpkin. He doesn't like wearing that stuff either. Because we don't trust that. We don't even know that guy. Why would I believe him, trust him or anything? I don't.

So I'm curious, you know, speaking of trust and labs and devices and things like that, are there any markers that you evaluate on yourself or are you living based on intuition?

My mother used to tell me, tom, you have to get regular medical exams and tests, right? She was worried about me. That's like mothers, you know. So I said, I do. The last time I had a medical exam, 1984, when I was started residency and they did a blood test and I have one scheduled for 2034 with an old guy, so he might die. So then I'll have to cancel it. And 2094, so that's regular, right? It's every 60 years. And in the meantime, between 1984 and 2034, I don't go to doctors or do any tests.

I love that. I personally don't have a doctor. I have run labs on myself, but I don't see.

I don't want to know.

Yeah, it's okay. I love that. I love that. There's, there's.

Because again, I'm, you know, like pumpkin. I'm banking on my ability to sense how I'm doing. And if I'm not doing well, I. I want to be. I want to be the one to sense it. Now, I could be wrong and I could. I don't, I don't. I could have all kinds of things right now, but as far as it goes, I feel fine. I can do whatever I want. I don't have any days that I can't do what I want. And I'm going with that. And I think what if you, if you do that, you end up getting better and better at it. Whereas if you outsource that. So somebody's going to tell me how I'm doing. The tendency then is to say, I'll just wait and see what my A1C is, whether I eat too many dried lingonberries, because I do actually, but frankly, I don't care.

I love this. You're my kind of guy, man. You probably, you've hopefully you sense that. But we are, we're very much on the same wavelength, I think. You know, I've always, I've always felt this way. But what, you know, you have like a few fingers in the conventional way of thinking. Just because. And the only reason I got these labs actually was because they were gifted to me. So I didn't even actually order them on my own accord. There's a company that I'm consulting for and, and they're like, hey, we want to run these labs on you so you can see our process. And so I went through the whole thing and everything came back really great, I'm happy to say. So I know I'm on the right path in terms of the way I live my life. And of course there's always room for improvement. And you know, this, the ring is, is, is a bye bye now. So thank you for that and you know, certainly got the message loud and clear from the grandmother medicine and, and here you are kind of echoing, echoing that. So I appreciate that. You know, you, you by the way.

Let me say something. I'm not saying necessarily that talking to somebody about how you're doing, if things aren't going well, that's not a bad idea, particularly if the person has learned to believe in what you're telling them. And then that's what I did. I heard people's stories and I told it back to them. And then they, hopefully they could say, so you think I should maybe not eat, you know, 10 pounds of watermelon every day? Yeah, let's try it and see how you do. And that's the basis of our new biology clinic is we, we hear stories, we tell it back and then hope, you know, hopefully we can give some suggestions of how you might go about doing better in this situation. And it is true that if you're not doing well, it's good to have somebody you can run that by. I'm not saying against that. I haven't had to do that yet. And if I did, I probably, I would. But yeah.

So would you say that the majority of illness and disease is caused by people are just living in a constant state of fear these days?

Well, you know, amongst the psyops is that there are these things called Diseases, they're not. There's your body's way of healing. You get a splinter in your finger, you make pus. The doctor says you have an infection. What you have is a strategy of getting the splinter out of your finger. You, you know, you breathe in debris. You make cough to get it out. They call it bronchitis. You have a strategy to get rid of the cough, that you put debris in your house and you can't get rid of it. You put it in a bag, just like you would if somebody put garbage in your house and you put that bag in your breast and they call that cancer. But what you have is a strategy of coalescing debris so it's not all over your house. And then if you keep adding more debris, it goes to your spare bedroom and then the living room and then the kitchen. And they say it metastasized from your breast to there. And I asked them then, so how did it get there? Through the bloodstream. Can you show it to me in the bloodstream? No. Why not? There's not enough to see in the blood. How do you know it got there? Well, how else did it get there? Right? So this is ridiculous. Like, you see, put garbage in your house, you put it in the garage, you put more garbage than you put into your spare bedroom. That means the garbage crawled from your garage to your spare bedroom. You know, that's. That's the level of thinking. And, you know, because we're getting near the end here, I want people to think so you, Because I've seen this before, that people listen to me. And there's one side of him that says, you know what? I think this guy makes sense. And there's another side that says, no, this guy's an idiot, because how can all these people be wrong? Right? There's like trillion dollars of geneticists out there and virologists. And so this guy sitting at home with his pajamas on is saying that everybody's full of can't be, and so that's what you have to deal with. And I would say when you're dealing with that, I would forget about that part. Like, whether you think that I'm right or not, like, we started with parasites. Go find a study that proves that these protozoa exist and they cause disease. Like, don't believe me. And don't believe them either. Just go look for yourself, and I can guarantee you won't find it. Then you can see what you think after that. But the thing that gets people is this cannot be. It can't Be as simple as this, you know? Well, Tom, what caused Alzheimer's? Well, you take somebody and you stick them in a home with nothing to do and no good food, and they start making stuff up. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Right. You know, like, that's what I would do. I would just start living in a fantasy world. And if I couldn't remember my wife's name, you know, too bad she's the one who stuck me in this home in the first place.

Selective memory, right?

Yeah. Anyways, that. That's what gets people. It can't possibly be this straightforward.

Well, you know. You know, Leonardo da Vinci said that the ultimate sophistication is simplicity. And, you know, I like to, you know, think that, you know, we can bring that back into wellness, care, healthcare, whatever, whatever we want to call it. And that's what the world needs right now is. Is simplicity. The body is sophisticated. It knows what to do, when to do it, how to do it. But we've, you know, we've had our. We've split our soul, so to speak, where we've removed that trust and that intuition and delegated that to somebody else who may not have our best interests at heart and may not even be operating with the right operating system to begin with. And we're entrusting them with our most valuable asset, which is our health. And it's just quite unfortunate. So I'm very much in alignment with everything that you said today, and I just love that there's other people that think this way and are putting this message out there in the world and grateful that we were able to have this conversation, and I'm grateful that we can share this with others who would benefit from, you know, just trusting themselves again.

Right.

Just understanding that, you know, you think about it like our. Our bodies literally built themselves.

Yeah. Right.

You know, and. And like.

Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt, because I am going to have to. It's like people say, isn't there anything that was true in medical school? And I say, yeah, the first day. First day of medical school, guy gets up and says, just remember, the dumbest kidney is smarter than the smartest nephrologist. And it's true. Like, a dumb kidney knows, you know, you eat too much of this and it gets rid of it. Nephrologist doesn't know how to do that.

Oh, man, I love that. So beautiful. What a great way to end our conversation. Maybe we'll have another one if you're open to it. Thank you for your time today, Tom. And, you know, wonder. Wonderful that you're enlightening people and bringing this message out to the world. I. I'm sure you've taken a lot of arrows for it, and you continue to do it, so I'm grateful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for having me. Hang in there.

Thank you. Have a great day.

Okay. Bye. Bye.

Bye.