Turn on the red light!

All right, Wes, it looks like we're live. Thank you for joining me today, my friend, and to all my listeners out there, thank you for tuning in today. You're definitely in for a treat. We're going to be discussing the numerous benefits of red light therapy and also different frequencies of light that have benefits on our physiology and our human potential. I actually had an amazing session with my JOOVV device this morning and I'm excited to give you a sneak peek into, into the revelations of that journey that I went on. It was like a 10 minute meditation that, you know, I've almost spent 30 minutes talking about because it was so powerful for me. And I'm so excited to share Wes with our community because of what he's going to be sharing with you today. Many of you may be familiar with red light. You've probably seen videos of people using red light. You may have even seen posts that I've shared about using red light not only for lighting our spaces, but also charging and lighting up our bodies. Red light has tremendous benefits and I'm so fortunate to be able to experience these benefits. My wife has been fortunate enough to experience these benefits that our JOOVV device has offered us and now I'm excited to give an authentic endorsement of this product and more importantly, educate you on the benefits of red light. So you can decide for yourself if this is something that you want to add into your health regimen. And you know, of course my goal isn't to just educate you, but it's to pair you up and introduce you to some people who are, you know, subject matter experts who are deeply passionate about this topic so that you can make the most informed decision when it comes to your health and wellness. So without further ado, Wes, thank you for joining me today.

Thanks for having me. I'm really, I've been looking forward to this, this conversation on the calendar. So I'm happy it's finally happening.

Yeah, it, it almost feels like a super long time coming. Although we've gotten to know each other, you know, just over the last few months, I feel like I've known you for a long time. So there's probably some, some past life synergies that we're also exploring through this relationship that we're developing. What I love to do is, is start by sharing a little bit more about your journey. So what got you into red light? Was there something that happened? Was there a research paper that you read? Was there an experience that you have shed some light on that. No pun intended.

Yeah, no pun Intended. That's a good segue. So it really kind of, you know, my journey into red light. I very much benefited from being connected with, you know, my family. And it was my two brother in laws and two sisters that, that kind of stumbled across, you know, starting a company and really red light therapy. And it was actually my, my eldest sister, Melissa, who, you know, she had always been searching for alternative ways to, to help help her body. You know, I would say traditional western medicines had failed her. You know, she tried a lot of different things, different diets, different things, and just nothing, you know, nothing worked. And so for this particular case, she had an eczema flare up and she just could not get it to go away at all. And she had, you know, read on like a back, back Reddit forum, something she had found that's like, hey, you know, I know there's not a lot of, like, this isn't a popular viewpoint, but like this person said they started using red light therapy and their eczema like disappeared. So she was like, what the hell, I'll try it. She tried tons of different topicals, tons of different things, diet changes. And then so she, she found like a local tanning salon that converted like an old LED bed, an old tanning bed into a red light therapy bed. And so then she signed up for, for, for some sessions and quickly like, noticed, like, whoa, this is something I'm experiencing benefits outside of what I thought. And you know, her eczema was gone after a couple of weeks. Damn near gone. Like, gone. But she was experiencing these other benefits, you know what I mean? And so I started hearing wind of this and I was like, you're nuts. Like, red light, like, no way. Like, I thought it was stupid. I was like, no one's ever going to be interested in something like that. Well, thankfully they didn't listen to me. They started, they started the company and you know, I'll kind of fast forward. They had some prototypes and different things. And I remember I had, I had gotten one. And I remember I used to, in my early days before, for graduating college, I did a lot of hard labor, manual labor, construction, blue collar work. And I twisted my ankle pretty bad. It was really swollen. And they're like, hey, use that light. Use that light we sent you. And I still was stubborn. And I was like, that can't help light, cannot help my ankle. That's stupid. Well, finally I gave in and I started using it. And I've always been a gym rat. I've always been into athletics, loved physical activity. Like it's just something that I've always gravitated towards. And I kind of, you know, I kind of had always felt like I just always love to do that. So I've always been rather sensitive to different changes because of what I would do and exercising and focusing on my body. And that's the first area I noticed a difference was I had always traditionally used like personal pre workouts, pre workout supplements, so stuff to get kind of vasodilation going, blood flow going, energy. I noticed since I had cut back on that and introduced like I had that same effect. Like my, my I, I was very much. My veins were exposed and like muscle pumps were like, I could just notice like, whoa, this is doing something. And I, you know, over the course of the next, like three to four months, like I saw dramatic just changes in my own body. And that was in conjunction with a few other things. But primarily that was the only thing I changed. So I became just a big believer. Well, it turns out then after I started to get involved more with Juve, there's actually clinical data to support the stuff I was experiencing and feeling. And I didn't really know that at the time. I just knew it was good for me and I was just testing it. So that's what was really cool for me. And my first exposure to it was I got to feel these effects and see them. And then later I saw, oh, it's not just anecdotal what I'm thinking. There's actually a lot of clinical data, you know, to, to support this. So it took me a while, but I went from skeptic to, to, to big time believer.

I love that story. It's usually our, you know, our own personal skepticism and then transformational experience that makes us the biggest advocates for the things that we put out there in the world. I'll share a quick story about my first experience with light that blew my mind. So I used to have a medical laser and this medical laser was for tendinopathies and inflammatory conditions. And one of my clients, one of my favorite patients as a chiropractic patient was coming in and one day she came in and, and she was just a complete mess. She had broke her foot. It shattered while she was trying to slam on the brakes to prevent a car accident. So her whole family was in the back, all her kids were in the car and, and she tried so hard to stop that car that she broke her foot in the process while pressing the brake so hard. So it wasn't the accident that broke her foot. It Was her trying to save her family. Fortunately, they all survived but her, her ankle just shattered, her foot just shattered. And her pain was so excruciating she had multiple surgeries done. And you can even touch it, you can even put your hand on her skin. That's how painful it was. So I had got this laser and I'm like this thing's supposed to be miraculous. I mean definitely worked for inflammatory conditions, tendinitis and things like that. But over the course of three or four sessions, her pain completely went away. And her doctors, she was completely blown away at first. And you could actually see where we had put the light. It actually reduced significantly all the edema and the swelling. And I was like, wow, this is like I'm sold on light now. This is a laser. So I what I would love for you to do perhaps because I know you're a self proclaimed light nerd, right? And you like to geek out on this stuff. So I'd love to geek out a little bit. What's the difference between a laser? Because the light looks red to me and there were some infrared diodes on there as well. What's the difference between a laser and red light? Just to help us differentiate the two.

So one really good question and for historians out there where like pbm. So photobiomodulation is a scientific term. It first started with lasers. That's how they delivered the application. And it was actually accidentally discovered in the 1960s. This individual was trying to radiate a tumor off of a rat's tail. Instead of it radiating and him to destroying and getting rid of it, he generated hair growth. So he was like okay, what the hell, you know what I mean? So then that, that kicked off this investigation of this stimulated growth, like this stimulated something to grow hair versus what the opposite effect. And then through the years they've discovered tons of different things. And so a laser, it's, it's, it's going to be the same wavelengths. The biggest difference is it's very targeted and typically can be. The intensity is a lot higher and really your intention of it. So a laser you would classify as a targeted device, like very targeted. I mean you're treating at the most like probably maybe the size of like a golf ball, but most likely it's smaller. And you're really going in there for targeted treating. And it's the same mechanism of action that's happening whether it's with a laser or whether it's with an led. And the reason they switched is they discovered you don't need Such high power to cause a change in the cell. So we. So not only do you not need that high power, but we can actually treat broader and you can treat safer because with a laser you do run into the potential risks of what's known as the biphasic dosage response. So delivering too much energy too fast and instead of providing healing, you're actually providing it overheats the cells and can cause like, damage and even cell death. So intensity is a big deal. You don't want to have too high of an intensity. So lasers, there's still a place for them, but most of what's used now is switched to LEDs because you can treat broader and you don't have to have such high intensity. So biggest difference between them is LEDs is more of a broader spectrum of what you can treat in an area and it's a little bit lower intensity. So you're really not risking that biphasic dosage response.

The first thing that comes to mind as you're speaking, and you know, just to add humor to something is, is Dr. Evil and his laser, right? So imagine he shines a laser trying to destroy people and instead they, they become like hyper conscious and activated and healed. I mean, how cool would that be, right? So, you know, this, this makes a lot of sense because I think that lasers a, the dosage can be really high and they're classed as a medical device and we have to be super conscious and careful with them. However, something where the intensity is a little bit lower and has a broader, you know, has a broader benefit. It's something that we can incorporate into our daily lives as consumers and even as practitioners. And, you know, for those of us that are practitioners with brick and mortar practices, this might be a great, you know, tool to add to your toolbox and for those of us that practice from home, definitely add it to your personal toolbox. But this could be a great way to bring health into people's homes. Which brings me kind of to my next question about children. So are there any contraindications for, you know, families to use this? I would imagine there may not be, but I love your, your thoughts and perspective on this because My son, who's 12, I'm wondering if this, this is something he should be using to enhance his health and happiness.

It's a great question. There isn't a ton of data that I know of as far as contraindications for children. It would probably be something that, depending on the age, you'd want to. And if the child has a medical condition or something like that. But in general, my kids use it. I know all of my family members and team members, their kids use it. And it's generally safe. There are some categories where people can be fairly sensitive to light, but you typically know, you typically know you're sensitive to light. Like it's not a, it's not a surprise. But in general it's a pretty safe application for most, for, you know, for, for kids, etc. Always still good if you, you know, to, to just confirm that with, you know, with your doctor. But in general, like it's a fairly safe therapy because as we've Talked about with LEDs, you can treat broader and then that intensity, especially with, with our treatment guidelines and stuff like that, you're, you're really not at risk for over treating, you know what I mean? You'd have to be exposed to this for, for a very, very, very long time. You know what I mean? So in general it's very safe for kids. And in fact, like Dr. Hamblin, he's a research professor, he's on our scientific advisory board, he thinks it would even, it's even very, you know, beneficial for, for kids to be using it, especially with how much development they're going through, how much energy it takes just growing all the, all the, you know, hormones, etc. So if you look at it from that perspective, like, it could be very, very supportive, you know, for that. So like, like I said, like, it's got to come down to the individual and they're in their, you know, their thoughts with their doctor, et cetera. But like, what I have seen and my family experience has only been beneficial.

Okay, awesome. I'll pass that message on to Devin. I'm sure he's going to be excited to hear that. Another quick question. When we speak of growth, we think of obviously the positive aspects of growth, but then the uncontrolled, unregulated growth as that we kind of define as cancer. Are there any contraindications if somebody's got a cancer or growth like that? Because I know that affects a lot of people and I'm sure many might be curious about that.

Yep. And it's a very still emerging category and it's kind of somewhat controversial within the community because the risk would be if you're radiating cells in your body with this light and they respond to it positively, are the cancer cells going to respond to that? Are you feeding the cancer cells again? We co authored a paper with Dr. Hamblin on like on cancer and etcetera. And you can find it. Google Joovv.com or go to Joovv.com and you can find that article. And his, his opinion of it is like, it would only be beneficial because when you're exposing your body to this light, it's going to take that energy and do with it, you know, as it sees fit. Right. Like, your body's very smart. So it's going to take that energy. And his belief is that it's going to help fight off cancer cells and support your immune system, et cetera. But it's still kind of controversial. So that's one of those where, you know, you definitely would need to talk to your, you know, your doctor about. However I do, there is, there is good data out there for folks using, whether it's targeted devices or more broad treating for, you know, after the cancer is in remission. So helping to treat those side effects of going through, like chemo, as an example, like one of them is like oral mucositis. It's these sores that can develop in your mouth as, you know, as a, as a side effect of going through, you know, cancer treatment. And they found that radiating and using devices like in the mouth has really helped offset, offset those sorenesses. So there's a ways to use it there too is maybe not just to fight cancer. That's, that's still a very controversial. But using it and helping your body after you're in, in remission to help with the offsetting of a lot of potential symptoms.

Amazing. You know, I appreciate that response. And, you know, for anyone who's not sure, you know, check with your practitioner, check with the people that are supporting you on your healing journey. I wanted to share a little bit about my experience with the device. And I know there's plenty of devices out there, so I'd love to help people ask the right questions so they can always make an informed decision because there's varying prices, right? There's varying statements that you see online. And sometimes it can be like the wild, wild west. And so when I get started using the device, you know, I became familiar with some research that shining light on your genital area, whether it's sunlight or red light, can be beneficial for increasing, you know, androgen hormones, especially testosterone in men. And so that's one of the reasons I wanted to start using it is, I mean, we can always use a little bit more testosterone that could support our growth and, and obviously other functions in our body. And as men age, especially after they get to 40, it's things start to decline naturally. So, you know, there's natural ways to raise testosterone levels. And then one of the things I also started exploring is doing meditations while I'm using the light. And today I had an awesome meditation while I was using the light. Getting the light shining on my face, getting it on my chest and in my groin area. And it was an amazing, you know, euphoric experience, almost like a psychedelic experience that I had, which lasted, you know, for that 10 minutes while I was in the therapy session. And I felt amazing afterwards. So to me, it's quite profound that 10 minutes of, you know, targeted light therapy can have such a positive benefit on not just the 10 minutes that I was doing it, but, you know, throughout the rest of my day. I feel so energized. Today, in fact, today I'm fasting, so I haven't eaten anything yet. And I've literally had. This is my fourth interview that I'm doing today, and I feel energized. I don't feel hungry, I don't feel deprived. I don't feel like, you know, I'm, you know, struggling at all energetically. So it's been amazing to, you know, start my day off with that. I worked out this morning, too. I lifted weights. I did my normal morning routine. And it's been amazing to see that, hey, I gotten through the day without even thinking about food. Normally that's, you know, when it's lunchtime, I'm, you know, making my way upstairs and ask my wife, okay, what's for lunch today? And I haven't even done that today. It hasn't even crossed my mind. So there's definitely something there. There, energetically speaking. I've also noticed that I experience less muscle soreness. So when I use the light and especially my chest and shoulder area, I've noticed that there's almost no soreness that I experience from exercise. And I've been pushing myself. So that was a pleasant surprise and really nice to experience that. I did have a. You know, my wife has also been using the device, and she loves it. We've it into our bathroom, and it's something that we incorporate pretty much into our daily routine. So it's been great to benefit from the device. Now, when we had our original conversation, some of the questions I had for you included, what makes joovv different than other devices? Because literally before our conversation, I was about to order another device. We won't mention names, but you actually gave me a list of questions that helped me make a more informed and better decision. So That I knew that JOOVV was a better choice for me. So I'd love for you to educate our listeners in terms of what have been, what are some questions that they can ask if they are in the market to purchase a red light device so that they can make the best decision for themselves and their family?

Yeah, and it's something that as being kind of the trendsetter and the industry leader because as I was alluding to earlier, before, before Joovv, this concept of standing in front of panels just to improve your overall health, it didn't exist. And so we really created this concept because when you're looking at a lot of the clinical data, consistency is the key to results. So it's not something you just do one time, it's something that you gotta consistently keep doing and keep giving your body. Right. Otherwise those effects can diminish because kind of just like food, right? If you're not constantly giving your body enough proteins, carbs, fats, you know, your body's not going to make that. Right. It's an outside source so you got to keep giving it to your body. So that's why we wanted to bring this in the home and create this concept of at home full body red light therapy. That's kind of what where we started. And we have other products that you can use that are more targeted but primarily like it's, it's trying to, to boost overall health and wellness. And so when, when you're looking to do that, like it just took a lot of, of research there, right? It's like what are the wavelengths to use and what, what about the intensity? Right. And what is the treatment protocol for that? So what sets us apart from all of the, you know, of the competition is one, we, we started this like we know why we do the dosage we do. You'll see on other websites like they all deliver this wavelength or some companies really try to do more power. But then when you take, when you look at these devices and you actually measure them, they don't, they're not even measuring them correctly. The wavelengths can be way off. And a lot of that too is they're really not medical products. And so a JOOVV device, it's a true medical product. We've had to go through extensive third party testing. We've actually had to make design changes, internal component changes. We've had to make the components more higher quality to meet those standards. And then the safety testing that goes along with that, you know, and now it's just become so easy for you know, somebody to find a product on, you know, Alibaba and then they throw up a website and they, they haven't done any of that. Like they don't even really know what's inside of that device. And so there's a lot of risk there from not knowing what is even your device is made of. What wavelengths are they delivering? Are they third party tested? You know, and there's, this is actually true most of what else, what is out there, they're just grow lights that are converted, you know, to, you know, to a human light. So essentially what that means is they haven't gone through any third party testing. And when, and they do, companies will list like a certification on there that says they've been third party tested and they have, you know, safety testing, et cetera. But when you actually look up that number, this is where it gets so tricky. It's safety approved for plant use, like horticulture. So but, but they market it for human use. So there's so many nuances like that. No different than when you'd see like products of like supplements, right? It's like, well man, this supplement is like a quarter of the cost. And it says it's everything the same, but like is it. So it's like the devil is in the details with everything. With this, it's with just, you know, and no one really knows this from just looking at it, but it's like making sure there's no light lost, right? You could say, hey, it's got the same wavelengths. It's saying this, but when you actually look at the panel and you look at the specs of it, you know, if you, if anyone's watching, you want that light to hit directly to the user from that panel. You don't want any of it to bleed out to the sides. All of our like light is hitting directly to the user, right? And so the more light we can get to your body, the even treatment area across your body, there's just so many nuanced details that go in to perfecting a device. Same thing with the quality. Like that's, that's really what we put an emphasis on is how can we make a true medical grade product that could belong in a hospital but be used at home? And how do we make that so safe and so user friendly to be, to and to be able to accomplish it? And like that's what we did, we created like that's what Youvis is a true medical grade product that you can use at your home and safely. You know what I Mean, so it's, there's so much then gone into that and like, there's so many other areas I could, I could geek out on, like explaining how is it different. But it's really the most premium quality product out there that, you know. And we can talk about some of the, some of the case studies we've been involved in. And you, you mentioned like hormonal responses. We've, we actually have data to support that of what you're using it for. You know, it's still an early case study. You know, there was only about 30 participants, but we saw strong responses in both male and female. And it's really neat is when that those people started using the light but also encouraged it with a healthy diet, they saw even more dramatic results. And when I see say, dramatic results, I say like folks that, you know, they were able to over 12 weeks increase their free testosterone 35%. You know, that, that's pretty remarkable with just light exposure. You know what I mean? And that's, and that's with a JOOVV device. That's with the right blend of wavelengths. It's with the right intensity. Right. We talked about that biphasic dosage response of not delivering too much power because a lot of people try to look at this like, oh, it's, it's more is better. And it's like, no, more is not better. Actually. It's like finding that, that sweet spot. So all of those factors kind of go into it, you know, with us doing this now for, you know, launching our first product in, in 2016, and we're on our third generation, you know, and, and we've just, it's been amazing to see it implemented into people's lives. The improvements we've seen. And there's so many categories of where it's helped people that I can't even really share because they're just so off label. Like I can't even, I can't even talk about them because I don't want people to get the wrong impression. But it's a result of being able to effectively stimulate healthy cellular function and healing. And so, you know, there's all those factors, just a proven track record, individuals that we've worked with and like yourself, like a good way. Someone has explained it to me in the past, like real recognizes real, you know what I mean? And like you, you've seen a lot of products out there. And when we had that conversation, like your takeaway was like, okay, these guys get it. Like, you know what I mean? They just, they know what they're doing, I can see it in the quality of it, et cetera. So hopefully that's not too much blabbering on about what makes us different. But I'm pretty passionate and believe like JOOVV is one of the rare companies in the red life therapy industry that's actually doing it correctly.

Yeah, it's so important. Right. Because this day and age, you know, to the average person, they think they're using a red light device and the tragedy is if it doesn't work for them, they kind of throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. And that can be quite unfortunate. So it's my imperative to educate people as much as we can so that they can make a decision that is supportive for their health, that their future self will thank them for. And especially when you're dealing with durable medical equipment. Right. It's one thing if you buy cheap supplements, they run out after a while and hopefully you don't do that again. But when you're making an investment in something that is going to be something that you're going to use for years and years and years, and especially something you're going to use daily, it is a worthwhile process to do the research. And that's what my job is to research companies and organizations, test them on myself and then make those recommendations when I feel comfortable with a product. And I get sent so many products and there's very few things that I stand behind because a, we want things to be practical, we want them to be passive if they can be. And this is a passive tool. We want them to be researched and proven and they've got to pass the quality test as well because we want, want to make sure they're going to last a long time for our clients. And they of course do what they say that they're going to do. So this is awesome enlightenment for me for us to be able to, to share this with, with others. And I love the education that you're also offering us. One of the things that you told me that was a red flag for people and if you've got a red light device, maybe this is a great way to test if it's an actual grow light or not is the switch mechanism. So maybe you can talk a little bit about that like you know what, what the switch would look like and how joovs is is different.

Yep. So typical grow light, they'll have these two like double switches and they'll usually be on the sides of the panels or underneath it. And you know when you, when you're recognizing that and you see like, okay, it's not, it's not that you can see that there's a double switch and it's usually for two different wavelengths they would use. And so that's like a clear sign. Like that's a converted, you know, converted light. And we see it all the time. All the time. And it, a lot of it is. And it goes into where just, and not too far into like, you know, political stuff or different things like that. But they, they typically can be just Chinese manufacturers that can identify US buyers to then kind of penetrate the market because they see that there's a, there's a demand, you know what I mean? And so that's kind of what we're seeing. And that's why since Joovv was the first panel launched, there's just been an explosion of it. And it gets, it's, it's just unfortunate because it's, it's, it's confusing to consumers because they can kind of look similar, you know what I mean? And it's, there's a lot of differentiations to it. And so that's why we're so focused on clinical data. We're so focused on making it the best user experience. Because for the most part, like, you know, we have patents and different things that we can defend, but we can't. You can't control all of that. And you see it in every industry. Just look at some of the massage guns now, right? There's probably like a hundred of them just on Amazon you could do a quick search for, right? But it started with just a couple companies, but now there's just hundreds. And they say they all do the same thing, right? And one of them is $500 and one of them is $50. And it's like, looks the same, but is it the same? Same thing with supplements, you know, that's why it's so important to do your research. And since I've been involved in juve, like I've become way more sensitive to just not just looking at what is on the front cover of something and kind of digging in, getting, digging in more details and seeing that the devil really is in the details. Same with like food products, right? It's like, this looks healthy, it looks all good. But then you flip on the back and like the first, first couple ingredients are, you know, high processed refined seed oils or, you know, stuff like that. And you're like, I never would have thought that because I saw the organic label and I thought that was it, it's starting to be the same way in the red light therapy industry is, is kind of everyone can mask that, say, hey, we meet all these qualities. But then once you open the COVID and you see and you're like, no, there's. So it's kind of similar to that. Hopefully it's a good explanation for people is it's really kind of got to dig deeper and see that. And so we try to be transparent with, with all of that stuff. We have some great articles on our site that call out that stuff. But ultimately like the best effective tool is working with individuals like yourself who, who other folks trust. And they, they've gone out and they've vetted and they've seen the differences and experienced them. You know what I mean? So that's that, that's some, some differences there.

Thank you. So I know there is many use cases for red light. Who have you seen or what conditions have you seen that benefit the most from this? I know you talked about eczema and skin disorders and things like that, but are there any other case studies or types of conditions that jump out to you that really benefit? So if somebody's sitting there and saying, hey, I have this issue, will this help me? What are some of those conditions that can really benefit from red light?

With that question, I'm going to start broad and then I'm going to go into like what the FDA actually indicates. So if we're talking broadly, red light now has been shown to really help nearly every aspect of the body that it's radiated. It's showing a positive effect because the mechanism of action for those interested is it's stimulating the mitochondria. And the mitochondria, if we can think back to science class in high school, it's the powerhouse of the cell. It's what's responsible for creating energy for the body. And so it's very important. It's very important. And now, you know, they can directly tie, you know, aging and age decline in other areas of, of like your cellular health is declining. And specifically mitochondria, it's, it's a part of it. And when the mitochondria is less efficient, other areas of the body are less efficient. The organs, the muscles, everything. And that can correlate to, you know, to, towards like diseases, different things. And so every, every which way they've, they've shown to shine red light, whether it's on the shoulder, whether it's on for, you know, for cognitive function, they've shown ability to help with Alzheimer's dementia, you know, treating joint pain, inflammation, fibromyalgia, different skin issues. Like broadly, they're showing lots of stuff. You mentioned hormonal stuff. We're seeing positive results of that. Thyroid, skin health, hair regrowth. There's just so many aspects that are kind of evolving, right? Those that like that's broadly. It's kind of showing and now they're seeing it in the gut microbiome. It's having a positive effect on your gut microbiome. Folks with neuropathy helping. I've seen studies help with that. Eyes, vision. There's so many things like that, scars healing. That's broadly. Now what the FDA is going to say it can do is like four things. It can help with wrinkles, it can help with hair regrowth, joint pain relief. And I think the other thing is another thing around like scars or healing or something, something along those lines. But we're seeing it evolve bigger. So like it's, you kind of got to jump into the research and see it for what it can do. And where I believe like the best use case for it is, is one like short term helping offset oxidative stress. Because that's a mechanism of action where red light immediately can help cells that are under stress and return them to homeostasis, lower, lower the oxidative stress, increase the ATP production. So it's helping cells become healthier and then increase in energy and then long term is just helping support healthy cellular function. Right. For longevity. Because that's important for, for, for, for the long term. So those are kind of some of the benefits like just broadly of like off label of like what is kind of emerging and kind of out there that there's not indications for. But we're seeing it in the research and it's, it's starting to, to kind of expand more and it won't be long before there's. There becomes more indications and use cases for it. The challenges with that is stuff we've talked about earlier is like what is the dosage, what is the right intensity, how long do you treat and all those different things. And then the accessibility of it. That's been such a huge challenge for folks to come to do, like let's say a clinical study is to go to that clinic every day. Well now especially this study that we did with Bristlecone Medical, these folks took the devices home, they could use them four to five times a week at home. And so it's a lot easier to implement into a regular use case for it as well.

I think it's a great investment in everyone's home because your whole family can use it, can benefit from it, and it's something that makes you feel really good as well. But I also love about what you guys have done, aside from creating amazing panels, is you've created an amazing system. So it's easy to build, you know, your panels up so that you get full body coverage if you want. You've also got panels that cover a smaller region. So there's something for most people's budgets that allow them to get into the space, get a high quality medical quality device or medical grade device and, and then also continue to add should they choose to. So you've really thought this through. Even the way the stands are designed, it's, it's a very well thought out design process that your company has gone through. Where would you suggest people start? So if they want to, let's say they're hearing this information like, oh my God, this sounds amazing. What's a good initial panel that you recommend that they invest in? Or how do they choose what panel is right for them? Maybe we could answer that question for people who might have it and that.

That comes down to the person's individual goals. And if someone, let's say they just want to, you know, experiment maybe where they have an issue of a sore knee than a Mini or a Go like the handheld device, which I actually have, I have right here for those who are actually watching. It's a small targeted handheld device, it's wireless and I can specifically target treat that right, I know that area is hurting, I can treat that. So if you're looking to just heal certain areas where you know the root cause is coming from that area, you know, then though our Mini or that Go device that I was just holding is a good option. But if you're looking to kind of more treat more broadly, more moderate, where you may not have a desired intention, but you're just wanting to give this energy to your body overall, then the solo is, is the great, the great place to start. That's the device you have. It treats. It's, it's about 3ft in length and it's about 9 inches wide. And it can really treat, if you're sitting in front of it, it can really treat the core of your body. So like your head, your vital organs, your testes, etc. And that's a great place to really get a feel for more of moderate to full body treatment. You mentioned you can scale later. And that's exactly what we designed our system to do is someone could start with a single panel and then add to it later and thinking about that process and how can we make that the most easiest process available? The beauty of that is you can. So if you were to add more devices, you can still detach one and still use it more targeted. Like that device you have the solo. You can still target treat with that, but you can also broad treat with it as well. You know what I mean? So the soul is really a great place because it gives you experience on kind of both more broadly treating and then also still you could still use it for a targeted. So that's the most ideal. You know, is, is, is, is starting with a solo because it's kind of giving you an experience of both enough where you can kind of experience more of the full body but then also still be able to use it for a targeted. To kind of treat those aches and pains that you know of like an ankle, back, et cetera.

Okay. And then one of the things that I can also do is since I have the solo, I can add a mini on top of it, right. To give me more coverage. And then that mini can come apart and function on its own so that I could, you know, travel with it if I wanted to, or I could, you know, use it in my office if I wanted to or have one in the gym or something while I'm working out. So it gives me that flexibility, which I love. I'm actually going to pick up a mini because I think that'll be a great addition. And then my wife and I don't have to fight over who gets to use the light and we can have it in multiple places in the house to support our health. So I'm going to make that little upgrade. Thank you for sharing that. You also have some great stand options as well, which also I think is really cool. So there's a mini stand, a boot, a door and a wall set up. So maybe you can speak to that a little bit so that people can make a good decision when they make that investment.

You bet. The, so the, the, the mini stand and the, and the boot floor stand, those are using. Being able to use your, your mini and so kind of independently. Right. They let you kind of use it anywhere around the house. When you're getting into more of the door mount system and the nano wall system, that's when you're getting more into you, you know, you're getting more into wanting to build out a more full body system. So example would be if I have A door mount system and the door mount system are. It allows you to attach your device to the door. It's a pole system, it's got a hook on top and bottom. And then this pole system has this mount where you can put your device and you can kind of move it up and down the door. Well, to expand like you said, to get a Mini on top of that, all you would need to do is get another bracket system and then you can just, then a Mini, you can mount it right on top of there. And we make it pretty easy. You can work right with an expansion specialist where they'll, they'll tell you everything you need, they'll create your order for you and then you can purchase it. So we make it really a luxurious experience there where you don't got to try to figure out okay, do I have all the parts for this? We want it more of a hands on approach to help the customer that way. And so it really kind of depends on like what fits your, your almost your style and routine. So if you're wanting more of, to expand later, it's best to start more with like a door mount system or a nanowall system because you're already invested in that accessory to expand. But then you mentioned like taking a Mini off. That's where the mini stand becomes really great because you can take that Mini off of a door mount system and then you could have it on your desk on that mini stand and like benefits for that. You're like, well why would I want to do that? Well, sometimes it's nice to just get a treatment as you're working, as you're on your desk. And there's also this bonus feature we just kind of put into our devices because it's organically. We saw a lot of customers were using our products this way was just for ambient lighting. And you're like, well why would I use the red light for ambient lighting? Well, the reason that's beneficial, especially at night, is it's not really going to stimulate an effect like cortisol because blue light, as in most indoor lighting, is blue light. And so using bright blue light at night, that's going to increase cortisol and it's going to keep our melatonin suppressed as our melatonin should be building. Well, this ambient feature, you can use a Mini or use it so it can light up. I mean it'll light up your entire bedroom, it'll light up your kitchen and you can just have it on as ambient lighting. So it's nice to just move it around the house there for just ambient lighting to really help encourage sleep. And it's funny, we've worked with other people and customers in the past have said like hey, you know, we started using this ambient feature and I noticed like my kids energy levels like were slowly diminishing at night like you would want and they were like ready to go to bed. Is, it's crazy how much stimulation we get from our devices from the lighting and everything, but when we kind of go back to nature and how it was really intended is after, you know, the sun goes down, we really shouldn't be exposed to much, much light. So there's lots of fun features in there like that. So that's another use case of like why you would want to detach and use it elsewhere is that ambient feature.

So do all the devices have that?

They do. Yep. Yep they do. So even, even this handheld device has, has that ambient feature and I actually used it quite a bit when, for the birth of, of when we had my daughter because you know, there's so many wakes up, wake up, wake ups in the night like breastfeeding. And something you want to be cautious of for any new parents out there or, or folks that are going to have, have more kids is if you're turning on lights like you're, you're stimulating that baby. And when I don't know about anyone else but you know, and especially for a mom, you want to get that baby fed and you want him or her to go back to sleep right away. Right? Because you want to go back to sleep. Well, not turning on bright light is a great way to help, help that. And so this was really helpful for me. I could just turn that on and it would light up, light the room up in just a lower intensity red light and we could see, you know, and we could get the baby fed and then easily get her back to sleep.

That's amazing. We, we actually recommend red light to our clients in the evening. So this would be, you know, kind of serve dual purposes.

Perfect.

And yeah, it makes such a huge difference on their sleep. And one of the things that we used to say sleeping like a baby as if it was a good thing. And now sleeping like a baby may not be what we used to say because babies have very disruptive sleep because we have very disruptive lighting in our homes. And that not only affects parents, but it also affects the child and the child can't speak up for themselves. So it's our job as parents to be advocates for their health. And if something as simple as, you know, exposing them to little to no blue light and green light in the evening and getting them, you know, more onto the red side of the equation, if that's helpful, then the whole family wins in a situation like that. And we all know how important sleep is for our health and our overall wellness. Wes, I know that, you know, Joovv is, is really big into education. They're big into creating awareness in the marketplace for consumers. Can people reach out to somebody from the support team, like if they go to the website, we're going to share a link below where you can get some special pricing and I know there's special offers that you guys run as well. We'll share a link to that. If they have some questions, they can probably go to the website and get the support that they need. Is that right?

Yeah, Yep. And we, we have a lot of extensive pieces so just on our science page alone you'll find just general information. We have a great video that really breaks down the importance of healthy cellular function and mitochondria function, how, how red and near infrared stimulate that. But then we also have these other categories of like you can read skin health, muscle recovery, joint pain and how red light can help in those areas. And so you can break it down looking at that specific. And then we even went a step further and you can access, we call it the clinical studies database where we've kind of linked to pubmed and you can search red light therapy and you can just kind of go crazy. I mean there's so many, so many categories of it. You know, there's well over 5,000 published clinical studies on just red and near infrared alone in so many different categories. And it keeps growing. And so there's areas there as you can look. And then of course, if you, if you want to talk to a representative and you haven't found your questions or looking to the, you know, the FAQs and such. Yeah, our support staff is pretty incredible with how fast they get back to people, you know, every day. So even, even, even through the weekend, you know, so it's just submit a question helpube.com and we'll, we'll happy to answer the best we can.

Awesome. And then because we have followers from all over the world. Do you ship primarily to North America or do you ship all over the world?

We do, we, we do, we ship internationally and that's what we're, we can talk about some of those deals that can help even with, offset some of those costs because for most places there's Import fees and international shipping. But some of these deals can potentially help with that.

Okay, wonderful. And then for practitioners who are listening, I know that there's an opportunity for them to share this with their clients as well. Are there wholesale opportunities for businesses if this is something that they want to carry as a practitioner in their practices? I know that's going to come up in a conversation, so I'd love to, to be aware of that at this point.

We haven't done a ton of wholesale. It doesn't mean, like we wouldn't, we wouldn't potentially be interested in something like that. But as of right now, we haven't done a lot of that. We do, we do work with quite a few, we've worked with quite a few businesses who implement it for patients. So whether they're a cryo facility, whether they're a wellness center, and we do offer special pricing for those individuals as well. So if that would be the case, if someone's hearing this and they're thinking about implementing it into their business, then there's a professionals page on our website you can, you can hit up and then you can see the information there. And it's been, I mean, it's been amazing seeing it implemented in so many different places and then just their feedback on how it's helped all of their clients and what their clients say and the benefits they, they've experienced. So it's also a great tool for that as well.

Yeah, I'm thinking of gifting this to. There's about a half a dozen people that I'm thinking of right now that I love to gift this device to and have them experience exactly what I'm experiencing. So this has been super, no pun intended, enlightening. And I'm so grateful for you taking time out of your day to share your passion with us and with our community. For those of you interested, we'll share a special link where you can get additional discounts and we'll also share a special link on some amazing offers that are taking place right now. A little bit time sensitive, but there's never a bad time to jump with two feet in, get your red light, start using it, start experiencing the benefits for yourself. And we can all use some more energy, we can all use more light in our lives. And it almost feels like when I was using my light today, it felt like I was out in the sun getting a warm hug. That's. That's how I would describe how I was feeling in that moment. I was so present, so centered, and I just felt Love coming out of that device, if that. I know that might sound a little bit weird to some people, but that's what I was experiencing and I really thoroughly enjoyed it. So thank you. I'm so grateful for this opportunity to use the light, but then also share it with our community. And before we started recording we actually shared this question which was if you had to go without light or without food, which one would you choose? So I'm going to ask you what your answer is. I have a feeling I might know, but I'm curious as to what you would rather do. No light or no food.

Well, I mean to me it's a no brainer. Like it's, I can fast, I can go without food. So I would probably, I probably want the light because I just can't do anything without it. And it's just such a mood boosting and along those lines, at some point of course I'm going to need food. So theoretically you could live in complete darkness if you had food. I don't know how great of quality of life you would have living in darkness, but there's something to say to that, right? Because if you know what is keeping the universe going, it's the sun. You take the sun out, I mean there's no energy, there's no warmth, there's no life, right? So it's like how important is it? It is the main source of energy, not just on Earth, but the universe. I know that sounds maybe, I don't know, for some people they're like, okay, you're kind of getting a little bit, you know, out there. But just think about it, you know what I mean? If you take the sun away, the further you are from the sun, the less there can be life. Like that's why they've planets they've identified that are so far away. They're just ice blocks essentially. There's just, there's no life. They don't think can live there because there's no energy. And I know we think of light as something that helps us see it's the sun, but it's energy, it's warmth, it's providing energy for plants, it's just providing life. That's what, that's what light is. And when you start using it and wielding it to your benefit, you can make dramatic changes in your sleep, in your, in your just everyday health and wellness, in your performance. It's amazing when you start using light for your benefit, how it can impact your health.

Yeah, I would agree, I would go with the light as well. Instead of food if I had to. If I absolutely had to choose. I love my food, my wife's a wonderful cook, but I need my light and I think food tastes better in the right lighting as well. So. Yeah, you know, I'm with you on that. And you know, the thing with lighting is that you're right. Light, the sunlight especially, is what gives us everything that we have on this planet.

Right.

Without it, we wouldn't. We wouldn't have the world that we have today. And we can bypass in many ways the light energy that the sun puts into plants, which then animals eat. And, and then we eat the animals or the plants, we can bypass a lot of that and get that energy directly from a unit like the jupe. So, yeah, why, let's keep all the middlemen out of it and, and let's get that light directly from either the sun or from a red light panel. And I think everyone will benefit tremendously from it. So thank you once again. Wes, is there anything you want to share with us in closing before we wrap things up to inspire people and move them to action?

Yeah, a great place. So we talked about some of these deals and a place you can kind of see some of those is if you go to joovv.com Become proof. Joovv.com Become proof. Check out some of those deals. And they are right now very time sensitive, limited time. So we do actively run other deals too, to take advantage of. And then. So that, that's a great place. First go there. Then once you're there, you can check out some of the offers. But then also there's two other spots I want to encourage you to check out on the website is don't listen to these two talking heads if you know, and take our word for it. Go read the science. Go see what the literature is saying and just dig in for yourself. Because if you're. If you're like me, which I think a lot of people are, you're skeptical and you've heard this same song and dance before about products, about things, right? Like, okay, that's good for you. This is actually something that. There is a tremendous amount of clinical data to support it. So it's not just opinionated, anecdotal stuff. It's actually clinically proven and it's growing in that aspect. And then the other spot is our reviews. It's amazing going through those reviews and reading how it's impacted people's health and what they're saying about it. So those two areas, I think are really critical. Like, go there do that stuff then. Then go look at the products if you want, but go check out those areas, you know what I mean? And just get feedback. Because everybody's response can be different. And that's what's amazing about it, is it's not. It's not a symptom treating therapy. It's not something that's going to mask issues if, if you benefit from it, it's because it's helping your body heal at the root, which is cellular health. And that's priceless. And it's something that, if you're looking to optimize your health, if you're looking to try to heal your health in the short term, focusing on a cellular level and giving your body energy for it to heal itself, that's what's so different between red light and other supplements, is it's giving your body those tools and then your body is. Is reacting to that and it can actually heal at the root level, which is. Which is pretty amazing. Love it.

You're speaking my language. Helping people heal themselves by activating their inner healer, and in this case, through the appropriate dosage, frequency and intensity of lighting. Thanks again, my friend. So grateful for this opportunity to share you with our audience and so grateful that Jove has made that investment in red lights and done the research and continues to innovate in the space. I'm looking forward to continuing to support the work that you guys are doing and sharing it with our audience. Thank you once again.

Thank you.

And for those of you that are tuned in, we will share all the links that Wes mentioned in the show notes, so check those out. Check out some of the exclusive offers that are available to you right now for some special seasonal offers that JOOVV is offering. And we will also continue to share this information with you in various different platforms so that you can make informed decisions regarding your health. So thank you once again for tuning in and.