Accelerate Your Success-Don’t Work Alone:The surprising power of collaboration for solo professional

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Welcome to the Legacy Leavers series on Success Secrets Exposed. Tune in live every Tuesday at 7 PM Eastern time or Wednesday mornings in Australia on W4CY Radio and Talk4TV. The series showcases experts, changemakers, and disruptors leaving a lasting legacy with those

Good morning, good afternoon, and welcome to you all to another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Today we're going to be talking about accelerating your success and not working alone with the surprising power of collaboration for solo professionals. Today I welcome David Shikan, Uh, host of the acclaimed Smashing the Plateau, uh, podcast and founder of the Smashing the Plateau community. Now, David specializes in guiding high-performance professionals through the transition of corporate careers to successful entrepreneurial journeys and ventures. Drawing on his own expertise of leaving a corporate role in 2006, he started his own consulting business, and David Totally understands the challenges of self-import— employment and the importance of community support. And he emphasizes that building a business isn't a solo endeavor and advocates for collaboration to achieve success. So today we're going to be discussing insights on navigating uncertainty, leveraging community, and doing more of what you love whilst getting paid what you're worth. So please help me welcome to the show, David.

Thank you, Sally. Great to be here.

Thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your insights. This is a topic that I'm sure our community will find highly valuable. Many of them are escapees from corporate and get into that, you know, up and down roller coaster ride of what the corporate and, sorry, what the entrepreneurial journey is about. So thank you so much for sharing these insights with us today. Now, I'd love for you to just sort of set the stage and share a little bit about what your escape from corporate career into entrepreneurial journey was a little bit for you, and what motivated you to take this transition at the time.

Sure. So I I worked as an employee for the first 28 years of my career. I started my career as an engineer, did that for a few years, and then went into the nonprofit sector where I was in leadership and management roles for over 2 decades. And, um, I got to know a lot of entrepreneurs along the way, and to me Having to fit into somebody else's box was constraining, and I really wanted to have more control over my career. The other thing that I saw happening, and it happened to me several times in my career, was involuntary exits from jobs, which, which means that you, you If your income is solely from employment, it means that your income is going from 100% to zero overnight. And then the day you walk into a new job, your income goes back up to 100% from zero overnight. So, um, you know, you mentioned in the introduction this roller coaster of entrepreneurship. I think actually with employment, there's a bigger roller coaster. Oh, yeah. And it's more like, right, It's, it's not, not so much a roller coaster. It's very jagged. It's like, you know, straight up, across, straight down.

Yeah, crash and burn almost.

Yes. Um, and, um, and it's very disconcerting. So that was another reason why I really wanted to be able to figure out the entrepreneurship thing. Um, and I had friends who were entrepreneurs who, who— one in particular who kept trying to convince me that to do what he did. He left corporate very early in his career and was an independent consultant and made it work for him. So I decided that the next time there was going to be a job change, I was going to go out on my own. Ooh. And the interesting thing is, when I did it, many of the people that I knew thought I— A, thought I was crazy, and B, they really just didn't understand why I was doing something that appeared to them to be very nonlinear. Yeah,

absolutely. And, uh, yeah, God, God bless those around us that, uh, know us as one thing and like us as that one thing and don't understand what's, you know, the, the reasoning behind, uh, why we're wanting those change. And the freedom and the flexibility is often, you know, the biggest calling card and the thing that you hear entrepreneurs say that they're seeking and looking for. And it's often, um, the thing that then becomes the tricky thing to get when they get into their own business. And that's often systems related. And I know we'll dive into that a little bit later. Yeah, sure. Yeah, wanted to come back to the fact that you had an entrepreneurial friend that had been trying to talk you into doing it for a number of years earlier. Back at that point, because I think this is very relevant to a lot of people that are sort of Not quite ready yet. What do you think was just— what was your pause point at that time? Was it a timing thing for you to then take that next step? And you obviously took that next step because there was going to be a change in your employment. That was obviously the catalyst this time. Was there something prior to that that was holding you back, or was it all sort of related to that opportunity there?

Well, the continued employment was what held me back. You know, it's very nice to get a paycheck on payday. And, um, you know, I had expenses to pay, a family to support. So it, um, there was a lot of resistance to trying to do something that seemed very bold, um, with, without a catalyst that, that, um, that kind of forced me to make a decision.

Yeah. Yeah. And when that catalyst occurred and you made that decision, um, what was your, um, What were your, what were your, your first steps to, to, to sort of come back, come literally transition from that one spot? You, uh, I would imagine, but having had an engineering background, you would've had a lot of thought processes and you would've, uh, worked quite a, a game plan out prior to. What were your steps?

Um, well, some of it was well planned and some of it was not, which is what often happens. Um, so I did start telling people that, uh, and I, I had left the nonprofit sector, so I told people I, was now a nonprofit management consultant. And, um, I didn't really have a clear game plan as to how I was going to get clients, but starting to tell people was actually an important factor. And doing that actually led to inquiries that led to clients, um, right? So just, just talking about it to people I knew and also the right people was really helpful. I did seek out some help from people who could be mentors. There was one in particular I had about 2 years before I started my business. I had gone through an executive education program. At, um, uh, at a business school. And, um, I— so I left, uh, so I had relationships with the faculty, and I reached out to one of the faculty members who I really respected. Mm-hmm. And, um, we started meeting regularly for, um, you know, for a cup of coffee or for lunch. Um, so I could get some guidance and he was like, he was super helpful and also, um, also helped generate some leads for work.

Yeah. Brilliant. I think, um, that there's 2 things that I've, uh, I've just picked up there that, uh, that I look at from, from, from my own journey, which mirrors, um, is very similar. And that is that you've actually, uh, reached, A, you've actually started to share your new story. So if I think back to my days when I started to sh— share what I was doing next because I've always been asked, what are you doing next? Because as I've grown and evolved, so has my business. And I think that conversation of telling people what you're doing and what the next steps for you are and what you're excited about— and we talked about enthusiasm and excitement earlier— that makes a difference. That becomes engaging to your network. But there was also something else that you said there was that you actually sought out people that knew had more information than you. So versus trying to work out how to do something, you've worked out who you could go to to help you to discover what it was, um, that you— what your next steps were, and, uh, and facilitate that in a faster process. Would that be a fair assessment?

Um, it's very fair and it's very important. Uh, you can't be shy. You, you really do need to reach out to people who know more than you do. Um, that, that has always been something I've done in my life, and it has It has made a huge difference. So you need to figure out, you know, who do you know who can be helpful? And keep in mind, you also want to be a resource for them. So this shouldn't be a one-way street. You, you, you should always offer to help them too, even, even when it seems like you might not be able to. You should always ask. I think it's, it's the right thing to do.

Yeah. And I think too, when it comes to, you know, It's not how, it's who. So from a phrase perspective, often we've got our own inner genius. Um, so you've sought some— somebody else out because of their inner genius and their ability to help you facilitate, facilitate your thinking. Sometimes we don't realize that we actually have another inner genius that somebody else can see in us. Um, that we're— and then as a result of them, we can help. But it is that ability to, um, also ask how you can serve, because often people will say, hey, look, I really love how you do blah, blah, blah. And it's something I can't do. And we sort of think that it's so easy and effortless, everybody can do it. Um, but just by asking that question, you can really, really support each other, uh, from an ease of, um, flow, et cetera, as well.

Yeah. I want to add something else, Sally, which is it can feel very daunting to be really public about what it is you're now promoting. Particularly if it's something that you've never done before, you don't have any track record doing. So I had lots of experience as a nonprofit manager, but I had never run a nonprofit management consulting business. Right? So the fact that I'm saying I'm now running a nonprofit management consulting business, where I started out on day 1 with zero clients, that was pretty daunting. Mm-hmm. And I, and I want people to realize that, that yes, it It may seem, it may seem scary to put yourself out there and say, and put a stake in the ground, this is what I'm now doing. This is what I stand for. This is what I'm, this is what I'm great at. These are the kinds of results I can deliver, when you actually don't have any track record yet delivering those results. So I just want to, want to recognize how daunting it can feel.

Yeah, absolutely. So with that theme in mind, and that, you know, you've got your own vision, you're starting to talk talk the walk, but now you need to walk the talk. How did you find that process of getting the rungs on the board so you've got that experience? And how was that? How did you do that? That's, you know, that's a significant transition, but it's one of many transitions when you're coming out of corporate into entrepreneurialism. How did you manage that and how do you help your clients manage

that? So the first The first resource was my existing network. And that was, that was good to get things started. And, and I had a solid business by the end of the first year.

Yeah.

So, right. So that worked. Second thing, a friend of mine who had left, left corporate after a long corporate career, not that much before me, invited me to come to a business networking event, and it was the first time I had gone to one of these very structured business networking events. And I realized that it could potentially be beneficial, and, and I knew nothing about that kind of business networking. So that again also seemed kind of daunting. Scary. Right, first time I had to get up and give a, like, a 60-second pitch in front of a room full of strangers. Um, but, um, that actually became a great resource and, um, not only a source of business, but it also became a source of, of colleagues and friends. I still have to this day, and this was almost 20 years ago.

Oh, beautiful. Love that. Yep. So that was the second step, network, um, and network, uh, your network and then finding new networks of business owners. And that's, that really helped you, um, as you said, build that solid business over that 12-month, uh, period and set you up for what became a very successful business.

Yeah, it also became kind of a transition point because there were people in my new network who started asking me for help, and they were asking me for help in something that I wasn't quite pitching. So, you know, I would— as I mentioned, I said I was running a nonprofit management consulting business, and I was looking for nonprofit organizations that needed management help to be clients. Um, But the people that I was meeting at these networking events were mostly small business owners. Right? So they started asking me for help. And honestly, you know, running an organization is running an organization. It doesn't really matter whether you're public, private, for-profit, not-for-profit. You're still dealing with people, processes, and systems.

Yes, yes.

Right? And finances. And those were areas where I had strengths. So I was able to help them. And then, you know, and then there, there was more of that kind of work.

So this is, and now we're getting into the genius of Smashing the Plateau, um, and the, you know, the community that you've created. But I'm just gonna, um, bring that back to, we've, we've been starting to move into that, you know, the power of the, uh, community and not clearly the, uh, all of the opportunities that arise when you're no longer doing it, uh, alone. So you've started with your own network, then you found a beautiful community, um, and you're starting to get asked for help and starting to see more opportunities for growth or possibilities for income revenue and opportunities to sort of glide your consulting business in. So talk us through, um, we've been talking about the power of, um, of community, and I know that this has become a thing for you as it relates to the, um, the Smashing the Plateau. So talk us a little bit about what you saw as roadblocks for other people as it related to not having the community around, and then why you eventually, um, you know, started to create the community that you've created for people.

Sure. So, so what I saw was, you know, in, in these networking communities, they were mostly about marketing and sales.

Yeah.

And that's what they helped with. Um, but there were other aspects of running a business that they didn't help with. Um, so I actually Invited a handful of people who were part of this business networking group that I had joined to meet offline, separate from what we did in our weekly networking meetings, to talk about more substantive business issues. You know, for— so for example, we had one, um, one member of this small group that, that Um, that I helped form that was a partner in a small, uh, professional service firm. There were 5 partners, and one of the partners was, um, was aging and showing some signs of dementia. And the other partners were, you know, they had all started this firm together, like, I don't know, 20, 25 years earlier. And they were trying to figure out— they were all, you know, good friends. Mm-hmm. They were trying to figure out how to deal with this kind of problem. This is not the kind of thing we would talk about in a business networking event.

No.

Right. But this was really important. And these kinds of conversations, we would meet, I think we were meeting once a week, and we would have these kinds of conversations. So I saw that there were other ways that communities could be helpful to entrepreneurs, not just with marketing and sales. And so I saw the gap. Shortly after that, I had a new client who said to me— and I started getting more people who were corporate refugees as clients, so that, that was beginning to be a theme. Mm-hmm. I had a new client who, who was a corporate refugee who did an initial session with me and said that they wanted to work further, but really wanted to be in a group setting. And I had never thought about doing this as part of my business. You know, what I had done with this small cohort, I was doing as a sort of, you know, volunteer and a colleague.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so I said, oh, they, you know, that's an interesting idea. And I had a, you know, framework that, that I used with clients. Um, it worked particularly well with corporate refugees. And, um, I thought, you know, it's an interesting idea. Well, and we talked about like what would be the minimum size for a group to be a group, and we, we agreed that if we could create a group of at least 3 people, that would be enough to get started.

Yeah.

Um, so I started mentioning this to people I knew, and within a few months there were 2 more people. And we— so we started the first group, um, and the group grew, and that same group is still meeting 10 years later.

Yeah.

Wow. Um, you know, and these— you know, that same person who was the, the trigger to get it off the ground is still part of it. Um, and, and then we expanded 3 years ago into a bigger community that has room for Greater growth and greater interaction. But the same principles apply about peer support, um, not judging other people, being a safe space, having a place where you can, um, talk about what your plans are, get some feedback, have some accountability.

Mm-hmm.

They're very basic principles, but, um, like, we know what we know and we know what we don't know. The biggest challenges in business and life are what we don't know that we don't know. And that's really the power of sharing something that you're working on with a group, because other people are listening. And there's sort of 2 things that happens when you explain what you're planning, what you're working on, or what you're challenged with, with other people. It helps you sort of articulate—

Yeah.

What the challenges are. It helps you focus on it. And you realize where you may have some gaps just, just by the process of explaining it. And then if you're getting quality feedback, again, that's nonjudgmental in a safe space, it can help you avoid huge roadblocks. It can help you go down rabbit holes where you're going to waste time and waste money. And they can also help you help point out resources you might not know about that can be super helpful. To help you overcome the challenges, help accelerate the success process. So they're like all these benefits of doing things in a safe space with like-minded people.

Yeah, very much so. I'm just going to pause there in a minute and ask another question in a minute. But Ralph just popped a message in the chat for us is, what is your advice on building your network when you are just starting out? I think you've probably answered it, but I'll let you answer it specifically for Ralph.

Yeah, you know, it's an interesting question, Ralph, because one of the things that I hear a lot from corporate refugees is, you know, we all have our networks, particularly if you've been in the working world for, let's say, a decade, 2 decades, 3 decades. You have your network. Um, but as an entrepreneur, the network that you had in corporate might not be the best network to get you to the next step. So what you need to, to think about is who are the kinds of people that may have similar kinds of challenges. They may be in different industries, they may be at different stages in business, but challenges when it comes to the basic things that I mentioned earlier that are part of running an organization, whether it's an organization of one or organization of many, you know, people. processes, systems. Who are the people that are the— like, if you're the CEO of your business, who are the people who are in that same seat in their business?

Mm-hmm.

And, um, who do you think you might have some synergy with? Who are the people that you might be able to help on some issues and they might be able to help you on other issues? And start to talk to them. And you could feel that, feel things out and see whether, um, conversations around what is keeping you up at night, um, is, is something that you have in common with them.

Yeah, very true. And then it would be finding the right sorts of, uh, net— business networks to, uh, to, to find all those opportunities and networking opportunities as well. So a 2-layered approach based on what we talked about, understanding your own network and the opportunities you can find in your own network and the, the one-away opportunities from that network. And then looking at what, um, business organizations or associations might have networking that you might be able to tap into to find some of those people as well.

Yeah, and one thing to keep in mind is when you're interacting with somebody in a networking setting, there are givers, there are takers, and there are exchangers.

Thank you so much. Keep going. Yeah.

So, um, obviously when you're trying to network with the takers, you're not going to get very far, and that's not going to be helpful to you. Um, that's very one-sided. It may not seem like it has a similar kind of challenge, but if you're interacting with people who are just givers, that's also a problem because, um, People need to feel comfortable accepting help. And, and, you know, humans naturally think about reciprocity. So you want to be able to help somebody who has helped you, or you, you know, you may not be able to help them directly, but maybe you know somebody who can help them. So this, you know, the idea of reciprocity is important. Mm-hmm. So I think about people who are natural exchangers, because that's where you and the other person Or the other people in the network can really leverage, um, your, your all of your relationships and resources.

Yeah, very well said. Thank you for taking the time and sharing that. Um, yeah, that's so important. I wanted to go back to what we were talking about with, uh, as it related to the, the community element and the shared knowledge, because one of the phrases I remember a mentor in one of my masterminds saying to me was, And what resonated more to me, for me, from a marketing perspective is don't do your own marketing in your own mind. Because it's always, you know, we get too close to it. And one of my sayings when I talk to my clients is, you know, we can't read our own label when we sit inside our jar. So that shared knowledge and shared wisdom in a room, and as you said, the safe place and the, you know, not knowing what you don't know and having somebody help you see something or articulating something you're working through, the power in just those elements alone in a supportive community really makes such a huge difference. I know this is an area that you specialize in and you help people to understand the role of collaboration and overcoming any plateaus that they maybe experience. In that scenario, let's just talk about when people are feeling Um, sort of stuck or they've got a challenge or they're needing to work through. What do you, what do you, how do you see the, the, your community operate, uh, when they've been working together for a while and somebody comes and says, hey, I've, I've, you know, I'm stuck here. How does the crowd, how does the crowd rally, uh, and help that person, uh, move forward?

Um, yeah, I, I, I see it like in our community, I, I see it happen time and again when somebody new comes into a live session. And about half our sessions are focused on working on your business objectives and key results. Mm-hmm. Because it, which is, is based on the, the overall structure that we use is you start with what you're, what's important to you, what you're very big audacious goals are that are not metric-driven. These are like visionary things that are going to keep you going for the rest of your life. There'll always be more to do. But then you can break that down into metric-driven objectives. We do it with 90-day objectives because 90 days, it's like meaty enough of a time that you can do something significant. But it's not so far out that it seems like you're never going to get there. And then we break that down and work on weekly activities and, and connecting with thinking partners around the weekly activities that are going to help you meet a quarterly objective. Sure. So in these sessions where we work on, on these key business objectives, when we have somebody new come into the sessions, our members are, um, super generous to hear what somebody has to say about what they're working on, even if they haven't— like, they're not quite used to our structure and they're not thinking quite the way our members think every time we have these sessions. But just, you know, starting to talk about one particular challenge they have, our members are super generous at offering suggestions, um, offering some feedback. And, um, and, and sharing resources. So, um, yeah, so I, I see this kind of happening over and over again.

Yeah, that's certainly something that I, I see. And I think that's, you've mentioned that, you know, that as humans we want to reciprocate and we want to be helpful and all those sorts of things. And in the right environment, people can come together in that beautiful way. And I love, one of the things I love is, as you, as you said, is that shared resources. And I always think of, you know, who do you know, who knows who that knows who that knows too. And those, those opportunities really help to unlock and really kickstart a network and your own network. So another little tip there for Ralph as well, which is awesome. So thank you. And so let's have a little bit of a talk now as it relates to the clients that come to you that are looking to take that leap or have taken that leap into entrepreneurialism. What advice do you give them from the get-go as it relates to their business structure and the people around and having the right people around them?

Well, it depends where they are in the process. So it's a very—

It's not linear, as you said before.

Well, it's not linear, and this is a very individual choice. So they've got to be really clear on what's important to them. Things like, like one of the, um, one of the exercises we use is imagine your ideal week. And we were talking earlier about flexibility. Yes. So imagine your, your ideal week and what does it look like? How much time are you going to spend working? How much time are you going to spend with things that, that don't generate income? Um, what it— so Um, one of the traps that I see entrepreneurs fall into is, um, you know, particularly solo professionals. They, um, they're, they're the offering to clients. And so they, unless they're actually doing work, Then they're not getting paid, right? So they may have given up a job where they were trading time for money, but they may have created a business where their business is also trading time for money.

Really?

And right, and even if you don't, um, you don't bill by the hour, which is something I try to talk people out of all the time because that is so limiting, But even if you're, you know, if your billing is, um, you know, if it's project-based or if it's— if you have a monthly fee with clients, but if you need to show up and do the work for, for you to get paid all the time, then that can also be self-limiting. You might end up boxing yourself in and then feeling like, oh, I left the corporate boss who I hated And now I have a new boss who I hate even more, and that boss is me. So, so you got to be careful about what kind of business model you're going to pursue. So think about things like how you want to spend your time, what's important to you. Think about in, in what it is you love doing most and you're most competent doing and who you want to serve. Think about where there is also the greatest profitability. Um, you know, a lot, a lot of people who leave corporate, um, don't like looking at numbers, and they're afraid to look at their bank account. They're afraid to look at their P&L. Yes. But if you're running a business, you need to be profitable. Otherwise, you're probably just running a glorified hobby.

Yes.

Right. So think about, um, who— that combination of what you love, what you're good at, who you want to serve, where there are opportunities to do it in a way that is as profitable as possible, where you can get paid as much as possible for the least amount of effort. Think about ways that you might be able to get paid without you being the one to always show up, you know. So it could be hiring a small team, whether they're employees or subcontractors, to do some of the work. And again, this— I'm talking primarily about, um, service-based businesses that are going to be, you know, some kind of professional service, um, right? Think about how you might leverage The the um the benefits of a team. Think also think about where you can create automation in your business. That's a again a way to be profitable. If you you know for example, if you have a particular problem that you solve for clients over and over again, you have a framework that you use. Maybe there are pieces of the framework. that you can create, you can create things that clients can, um, can work on on their own without you, you know. So things like, you know, creating videos they could watch or work or using worksheets or having, you know, templates. Um, again, anytime you see that you're doing something repeatedly, that's an opportunity for automation.

Right.

And automation doesn't have to be some complicated tech thing. Um, it's just find ways that some kind of system or other people can repeat the process so that your ideal clients are getting great benefits, but you don't always have to show up to do the work.

Yeah, I'm so glad you've shared that because those, those simple automations are such a game changer because they're often so simple. And I know I'm saying so simple and they're not quite that, but those really simple ones can be the real game changers, especially around the frameworks. Sorry, I can feel a rant coming on, especially around frameworks. If you've got a framework and everybody ends up having a framework, but just putting some simple automations in there, a form or a video with a form and just or checklists or worksheets for clients. Who doesn't love a great checklist or a worksheet when you're trying to move your thinking along? We all love those things, and they actually are very, very simple things to create, which make— create huge opportunities for simple automations, which just really unlocks a whole lot of time and revenue-generating opportunity for people. But they're the things that I often see super missed. So I'm glad that you raised that. So thank you. And I was going to come back to— you talked about a lot of the corporate refugees don't like doing finance, which I actually found a bit of a surprise because I— but also makes sense because I can— I then went, oh, guilty as charged. But there's also one— the other one that you see is that they don't want— I just want to be at the front of the room. I just want to be serving. I don't want to do— I don't want to build out the systems. And that's— I wanted to sort of circle back around the systems because systems is the big thing that people go, no, not— I know I need systems, but I don't know what systems they are. And I think when we call them systems, they seem big and overbearing. But if we bring it back down to those simple automations of how you can replicate and duplicate yourself with some of those things, some of those things that can be the game changer and added together. create a beautiful system. So I was gonna ask you, from a systems perspective, we— you've talked about automations, and I love that. Thank you. And from a systems perspective, what are some of the pitfalls that you can, um, just sort of highlight for people so they're aware of them as part of their journey as it relates to helping them have a profitable business?

Um, well, another one is you, you could end up automating something too soon. And, and go into

it,

right? Yeah. A complicated automation. I've been guilty of doing that when I'm thinking, thinking through, oh, I, I need, um, you know, I need to create an email sequence for onboarding. And it turns out that, um, maybe there aren't as many new people to onboard. And then I realized that the email sequence is not quite right for the people that are coming in. Um, it probably would've been simpler to just send out emails manually. And when I see that I'm actually using the same email over and over again multiple times, then it's time to put it into an email sequence.

Yeah. Well said. Yes. Yeah. Very, very well said. I wanna, um, there was this phrase that you had on your website and I mentioned it earlier and I'm just looking at my notes. Don't worry the joy out of things. Now I wanted to bring that, and I'd love you— I'd love your insights to discuss that, because when I read that on your website, I went, oh my God, that's so good. Because, um, we see— and my own experience, and I, from my own experience and seeing others— we do get into a state when we get into our own business and we start our own journey at different milestones, we start to worry about things, and, and we do zap the joy out of them, you know, the reason why we started it, the freedom and all those other things. So can you talk us through, um, that, the meaning of that phrase to you and what that, um, how that relates to your community and how you help people with that as well?

Um, look, there's no question that running a business is hard work. If it were easier than being an employee, there would be more entrepreneurs and fewer employees.

Yeah.

Um, and there are plenty of things to worry about, but Um, there are also lots of reasons to be grateful. Yeah. Right? If you have your own business and you've created it so that you have control over your time, you have control over the kind of work that you do, you have some flexibility to suit your lifestyle, um, that's a lot of— that, that is good reason to be grateful. And, and yes, um, there are no guarantees that business is going to continue the way it's going now. Um, every business has challenges, but if you only focus on the hard parts and you only worry about what might happen if, um, then you're not going to have fun. And if you're not enjoying what you're doing Then you might as well go back and get a job.

Yeah, I think too, coming back to, um, the ability to create your own mess and your own, um, nightmares in your own brain, um, is one of the elements as an entrepreneur that I've certainly been guilty of, which is why that, that phrase, uh, resonated with me when I saw it. But I think too, this is the opportunity for people, um, as it relates to joining a community like yours and Smashing the Plateau and having, um, those people around them. You're, um, do I dare say, less in your head from a longevity, uh, point of view. And you've got those people, you've got those comfort— you as the confidant and that, um, and then the rest of the community that can actually help, uh, unpack that through sharing, uh, sharing, uh, those issues in those sessions that you were creating as well.

Yeah. And, and your friends in your community will talk you off the ledge when you worry too much.

Yes.

Right. With— because, um, again, as you've said, Sally, they're, um, they're, they're independent of the challenges that you're facing, and they're not emotionally tied to your outcome. You're emotionally tied to your outcome. So you— right. So Your worries are real to you. Um, your worries are not real to them. They'll be, um, they'll be pretty, yeah, they'll, they'll be pretty, um, uh, independent about the way they, they think about what they're hearing from you.

And I think too, we get stuck in our own, um, store— I'm going to call it story patterns. And I've got a, a, a story of a girlfriend of mine, um, and she— I needed to borrow It's just something simple. It's not quite work-related, but I wanted to borrow— asked if I could borrow her lawn mower because mine had blown up and I needed to do the lawn mowing. And she said to me, oh no, I can't get it in the handle. I can't get it in my car because of the handle. She's had this lawn mower for years. And I'm like, it would fit in you. In my brain, I'm going, but it would fit. No, no, it won't fit because of the handle. Now, her story was that the handle didn't slide up and down, and it's been her story and her reality. For many, many years. But I sort of thought because my, my lawnmower handle went up and down, I assumed that her handle went up and down. So I said that to her. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I drove my car up there and used my car and slid her handle down. But it was just, you know, her story was that the handle did not move and she didn't even consider that it could. But I sort of suspected it did because mine did. We just had to find the way. And I think that's how stuck we can get in our own stories and in our head. But when you've got the beautiful opportunity of collaborative partners and thinking partners, as you called them, it does unravel and move those dials a lot more.

Yeah.

Yeah. Can you give us an example of how you've seen that transform somebody within your community, just as we start to get towards the end?

Sure. Um, yeah, and I've seen this actually happen, um, many times. I think of one member of our community in particular who, um, has relied on Thinking Partners in the community when it comes to negotiations. So things like negotiating a renewal contract with a client. Um, I've seen this person kind of imagine what the— and this is for an existing client, right? So an existing, a good client with a good contract. It's time to start thinking about renewing the contract for the upcoming term. Things like, I didn't hear back from them. Maybe they don't like my work.

Oh gosh, yes.

Right? I've heard, I've heard this like many times. Or I've heard back from them and it sounds like they want to reduce the scope of the work for next year. And, you know, one of the questions I always ask is, okay, so what kind of communication did you receive? Um, and usually it's something that is text-based. Right, where you can't really judge somebody's emotion. There's no nuance.

Yes.

And I'm like, you know, I will say this, and I've heard, you know, other people suggest things: time to time to get on a call.

Oh yeah,

right. Or like you haven't heard back. Do you have this person's phone number? Like nowadays, people don't think about making random phone calls. It's like, I guess it's considered bad etiquette, um, but like, you know, you've been working with this person for how many years? You have their phone number? Pick up the phone and call them. Maybe they didn't see your email.

Mm.

Or, um, you know, you, you don't quite understand what they seem to be implying about the potential scope of work in this renewal. You know, schedule a Zoom call or get on, get on, you know, make a phone call. Say I just you know want to understand this better and just ask some probing questions.

Yeah.

So these are the kinds of things you know other people look at these these communications and and they they they don't have the same emotional reaction of you know maybe I'm not good enough.

Yes. Yeah. Or I don't want to be a bother or yeah all those. All those things, right?

Or, or, or maybe the thing, maybe the thing is they're reacting to, they think my fee is too high.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And 9 times outta 10, it's not because the fee is too high. It's something else.

Yeah. And it's usually something really insignificant and just, you know, we've made a, what would've been, my mom used to say, a mountain out of a molehill.

Exactly.

Um, yeah. Done all those sorts of things. Yeah. Um, and that I think is the beautiful, uh, is the beautiful nature of a collaborative community is that fresh eyes. And fresh, unemotive— unemotional, but really proactive opportunities for conversations to help you move forward faster.

Yes. Yes. And by the way, the result of these kinds of interactions in the community, in this person's case in particular, has been a huge increase in revenue over time.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I would say, in my case, it's getting my, getting myself out of my own way. So it sounds as though that's You know, have it relying on the other people and help having that fresh eyes helps, helps them have the right sort of forward movement. So looking ahead, what is next for Smashing the Plateau for your community, and what do you envision over the next 12 months for you in the community?

Well, one thing that has actually, um, evolved from the community is something I, I hadn't thought about, uh, because this is an online community or was primarily an online community, and we have members, um, from, um, multiple places, um, right now in, in the US and Europe. Um, I didn't think that there would be an appetite for doing things in person.

Listen again. Yeah.

Um, and I'm based in New York, and we, we do have Um, we do have a fair number of people who are close by, um, you know, a critical mass to do things, to do some things in person. And we have also have, you know, coming to New York is attractive to those who don't live here.

Yeah.

Yeah, so we, we actually have one member who lives in Atlanta that was the trigger for our first in-person event. Last fall. And it was— and this was, again, this was created by the members. I helped facilitate it, but really, they wanted it, they designed it, they created the agenda, they led the sessions. And then we repeated it in January, and we're planning another one in June. So I guess this is going to be a regular thing.

That sounds amazing.

Yes. So That's something that, again, wasn't on my radar.

Yeah. And isn't that the fundamental beauty of collaboration and collaborative spirits coming together? You talked about filling gaps before, but there's also those repeating themes that come up. And when people find the right thing, then they're going to elevate it. And that's obviously now what's happening with the community there. you know, enjoying it so much they actually want to meet him in person, but they're actually wanting to meet the extended family. And then, um, I'm going to call it co-creating now, um, which is just— yeah, which is just, you know, um, that to me, that warms my heart because that to me is the human spirit, um, it coming into business and community now.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's awesome. And how can people best get in contact with you, David, um, as we get towards The last couple of days, they can

go to smashingtheplateau.com. We have a contact form. You can put your information in there. Um, you could also reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm the only David Schreiner-Kahn in the world. Um, those are probably the 2 best places.

Excellent. And they can also listen to your podcasts as well, um, and connect, uh, with you, as you said, on LinkedIn, um, and, uh, through the form on your website. Do you have any final closing words of wisdom that you'd like to share with the extended community that we haven't

Um, sure. Just remember, every individual has gifts. Every team has gifts. Every organization has gifts. When you share your gifts, the world prospers.

Beautiful. That's just given me goosebumps. Thank you, David. It's been an absolute pleasure sharing with you, uh, and sharing your wisdom, uh, with the world, which is what we love to do. Thank you very much for, uh, being on the show, and I look forward to sharing this episode with our community and some signbots with from our community over the next coming weeks. Again, thank you, David, and we'll look forward to seeing you all on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Till then, take care. Bye.

Remember, if you want to be sought after and sold out, as well as being known as the obvious expert in your industry, you need to speak with Sally, our host of Success Secrets Exposed. Sally is the founder of Monetize Your Content, a done-for-you content marketing agency that helps you be easy to buy. See you next week on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Tune in live every Tuesday at 7 PM Eastern time or Wednesday mornings in Australia on W4CY Radio and Talk4TV.