Care Giving and Planning

Where we have intimate conversations with today's thought leaders, changemakers, and disruptors to bring you tools, strategies, and insightful perspectives on business growth and personal growth, revealing the humanness of both success and challenge. For those that are new to the show, my name is Sally A. Curtis. I'm a content repurposing whiz, and I work with brilliant individuals to help them leverage their content so they can engage their audience through through the power of visuals. What we're best known for is turning books into 2 years' worth of social media posts. We provide a done-for-you service that amplifies your impact because you stand out, you deeply connect with your audience, and your message is heard, and you have the power to reach more people with ease. And today we've got a very, very packed, full, episodes for you. We're going to be talking about caring and planning. And I've got 2 very, very special guests that are going to be joining me today. And part of what we're going to be talking about is— and I love this quote from Janice, one of the guests— which is that we plan for birth. And now it's time to start planning for caring and for death. So we're going to be in for a very deep and meaningful conversation today. So let me tell you a little bit about our 2 guests that we have today. We have Janice White, who is the Caregiving Warrior, and she wants to share her experiences of strength and hope with other caregivers so that they can face the challenges of caregiving with courage and grace, as well as self-love. And she wants to help one caregiver at a time. Susannah is the author of Care, self-care for caregivers. So let me just bring Susan into the show very quickly. And also, I want to introduce you to Janice Lombardo, and she's a certified end-of-life doula. She knows firsthand the chaos and the anxiety that can occur when there are no conversations and no decisions having been made regarding someone's One's directives and individuals' directives and final plans and wishes. And Janice is on a mission to bring holistic health, heart-centered guidance and education and compassion to those individuals that are going towards their end of life. So please help me welcome into, into the show Janice and Susan. Let's just bring Janice in. Welcome, ladies.

Hello.

So lovely to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us for what I find is an incredibly powerful conversation. I've had conversations with both of you previously. And obviously, I had lost my parents, they've both passed. So I understand both the caregiving aspect in a very small way, as well as, you know, some of those tough conversations that in our case didn't actually care and some of those reminders that we needed to, to share with family members as to time went on. So I'd love to start, if I can, by asking Susan if you can both tell us a little bit of your backstory as to what brought you to being of this service to the world now.

I thank you for having us, by the way. This is— I really look forward to— this was a highlight of my day today, so it's lovely to see both of you. Just briefly, I, you know, so many of us are thrown into the caregiving world rather quickly and unexpectedly. Unexpectedly, even though we should be preparing for that. And my dear friend there will be talking more about that. And I, my mom and dad, my mom really, they were hiding the fact that my mom had dementia. They were working as a team to sort of hide their physical ailments, so to speak. And they were a good team. So they kind of got away with some stuff. But to make a long story short, I had to take care of both of them as health issues came up. And I realized that as a caregiver, I was clueless. There wasn't a lot of information out there, and I needed support. So I sort of promised myself once I was through the journey that I would share what I had learned with other caregivers so that we weren't— we didn't feel alone and that we could help— I could help other caregivers care for themselves as they care for others because we lose sight of ourselves. So I wanted to change that. So I got into this space by blogging and writing, and the next thing I know, I have a website and a book. So it's been a great journey.

Yeah, beautiful. And Janice, Can you tell us a little bit about your backstory? How have you got to doing the work that you do and love?

Well, thank you so much again for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here with both of you. Uh, my journey actually was 30 years in the making. Back in 1992, when my son was born, um, had a lump on the side of my neck, kept getting told for 8 years, nothing's wrong with you. 8 years later, uh, I have stage 4A papillary thyroid cancer. So I wasn't really advocating for myself. I was just trusting the doctors and going along with what they said and listening and whatnot. And that was one of the reasons I'm now a medical advocate. I ended up taking care of my mom for 8 years from 2003 to 2011 when she lost her cancer battle or journey, however you want to put it. As Suzanne was saying, when you are thrust into a caregiver's role, working with healthcare systems is like working with a country. You have a different language, you have different doctors who have different protocols, and nothing is the same. Everyone does their own thing differently, and you're there trying to support your loved one, navigate for them, advocate for them, and it can be a— Daunting task. And just like Suzanne, I decided back in 2020 when I found out that becoming an end-of-life doula was an actual job that I could do with all of that life experience that I have, uh, there was just no doubt that that was the way that I was supposed to move forward. So many of the things that Suzanne has done, I'm sure that I have done as well, but I've kind of taken it a step further. When my mother was in her final weeks, we had never had those final wishes discussions, and I never found out until it was too late that she wanted to die at home. I did not know that. And the guilt and the frustration and the sadness of her passing and everything else going on, um, I didn't want another family to go through that without having a little bit of education and guidance along the way. So that's how and why I became an end-of-life doula, was to help others who are on that journey, because surprise, it's going to happen. And if you're not prepared, it's not a pretty thing.

Yeah, I think that was for me when I was reading the notes and going through part of the conversation I wanted to have today, which was why that, that phrase, we plan for birth, we plan for the wedding, we— but yeah, we definitely plan for the birth. But that caregiving, that caregiving, and that end-of-life aspect, we don't actually care for. And it is very much— you are thrust into it because one day everything's, you know, sunshine and roses. And the next day it's not. And that, as you said, that navigation. of the stuff that you've got to go through, let alone dealing with your own emotions, trying to keep your own family together, not having the opportunity at the time to actually feel into those emotions and sort of being thrust into doing everything else. So what are the common— I suppose normally we'd call them challenges, but what— I suppose they are a challenge. What are the common things that you sort of see all the time in the work that you do? And it's part of what you're wanting to see change and help and support people through.

Thank you. I'll jump in very quickly just to say that the one thing I see is that caregivers don't— first of all, many people who take care of people don't realise they're caregivers. They don't think of themselves as caregivers. And, you know, they don't take care of themselves. I mean, it's It's a very selfless, it's a very well-intended selfless task. And most of us jump into it, but we don't realize that, you know, we're hurting ourselves because we think of ourselves last. So that's the, that's the, you know, we think we can do it alone, we think we can do it all at once, you know, and we think we can do it perfectly. So I mean, they're the 3 areas that concern me as far as caregivers go.

Yeah.

Well, the thing that I'm gonna piggyback onto Suzanne is you don't realize that you're a caregiver until you get sick because you are so busy taking care of everyone else. You're at the bottom of the bottom of the list and you don't even understand how it happened because it happens so quickly. And then if you have family dynamics where you have no one else to turn to because they've decided they can't be part of it, or a whole host of other things that can happen. It just makes the job that much harder. And it's really sometimes a thankless job. So having that support is so vital.

Very much so. And I think from my own experience, so instantaneously, your life still needs to continue on. It's just in case we still continue to work, all of this extra responsibility you've got, and it's at different times. You've got to be there when the doctor— because you just get into a different syndrome because you're now right, you're now already that. For me, it was already that person. Lots of stuff happened really quickly. But the responsibility and, and that was, you know, consuming. And you do share, Janice, you don't really until you actually get sick, you've been doing until you suddenly can't. And then that, you know, the wheels really do fall off. Sure. So let's talk Talk about conversations that we actually have to have, perspective and getting community to actually provide care for somebody who wants it and doesn't think they need it. Conversations— where do we start the conversations from, as well as the end-of-life perspective? Okay.

My suggestion in that arena, I have noticed that it is much more difficult when you're working with your own family members. From the relationship perspective, they know how to push your buttons or to procrastinate or any number of things in order to not have to make those decisions. What I have found is Finding a third party who is neutral to be able to come in and lead that discussion, even if it's just from a perspective of, I have decided that I am taking on this responsibility and I have created my directive plans and my final wishes. And here is my notebook that shows you what it is, how it can be laid out, and that it doesn't have to take forever. It does not have to be very complicated. All you're doing is you're leaving your loved ones a guide. And that guide is so vital because when you don't have any perspective as to what those wishes might be, you're fumbling around in the dark while you're also grieving and emotionally distraught. So that's really one of the big things and why I believe that being an end-of-life doula is such a gift, because I can see from the outside in. I've already lived the inside So I'm able to take those lessons that I have learned and apply them to be the most effective as possible. And this way things run much more smoothly and decisions get made, and it alleviates a lot of the stress and chaos and anxiety that can really come from something like this.

And, and I also feel too— yeah, I also feel too, just to jump in a little bit, is that, you know, For me, having a lot of patience around, especially with family members. I mean, you have to sort of approach it, and it's great to have a third person. It's such a great idea. And just to be patient. You have to kind of keep going over it and over it with them and just be really patient. But also, for me, you know, you can't cover everything. You think you're covering everything, but, you know, I had a situation with my mom where I had the wrong paperwork. You know, and, and it all worked out, but I had the best intentions and I tried to take care of everything, but it wasn't— it just wasn't the right paperwork. Unfortunately, I was saved by really— we have EMS people over here, you know, by people, ambulance people who are very kind to me. But I thought I had myself covered, and if I had had another professional opinion perhaps, or someone else to look at, you know, help me along, I think that would be— would have been so helpful for me. You know, and, and I had recently gone through some health issues myself and wanted to make sure all my paperwork was in order, um, because it made me feel better. You know, I was afraid that something was going to happen to me. I had a relatively serious operation. And, you know, what a gift to know that, God forbid something would happen, everybody would know what to do and where it was. It's a gift. It's a gift to the people that you take care of.

Yeah, and it's, it's such a— yeah, thing that just came up for me was the word how complex being patients of us, guilty as charged, and, uh, when you're dealing with is that themselves are not, uh, not them, then you've got your other family members and then you Relevant people you're dealing with. Patients in itself that we now experience or take part in is itself because that level of intent used to. So as you were both having the conversation in that third party, you know, an unbiased That's part of knowledge. Just sounded as though it was an opportunity to reduce some of that stress and sort of almost just take a breath.

It is a really amazing thing to be able to have that time to take a breath. But unfortunately, because being an end-of-life doula is still a new thing, People aren't sure what it is, why it exists, and does it get covered by insurance? Uh, no, it is self-pay, but the, um, the small amount that you would spend to pay someone like me is well worth it in the probably thousands of dollars that you'll save by having these wishes and these plans in place. Because when you're trying to plan a funeral for someone that you love who is actively dying, there are so many things that can go wrong. And I know that there are a lot of people out there that already have lived this and already know that, but then some of them are worse procrastinators than anyone even though they've already lived it. And I don't understand other than the fact that death is still a very phobic thing for many, many, many people. And that's one of the things that I'm trying to do is to bring a voice to it, show you that it really isn't that scary, that it is better to do this now than to do it when it's an emergency. And so pre-planning, you can't pre-plan enough. And even like Suzanne said, she didn't have everything for her mom, but at least She had something. There are so many single people out there who are scrambling to try and figure out what to do. I'm also working with them to try and help them to decide who they want as powers of attorney, or if they have a will— they should have one— who's going to be the executor or executrix, because those things are just as important for every adult over the age of 18.

Very true. Yeah,

absolutely. And I think, you know, and I think, I think the thing that gets frustrating is that depending on the generation, I think as the caregiving world and the numbers change and the generations change, I think, you know, like my parents were the greatest generation, so they were World War II, um, my dad was a World War II vet, you know. I mean, they, they were very private They wanted to control their own things, you know, so kind of, you know, very gently prodding them over and over and over again. I mean, my mom was really practical, and, you know, she sort of, you know, took care of all the financial stuff, and it was hard to get her to relinquish, you know, what she considered power to someone other than herself. Power. But, you know, just appealing to the logic, you know, and the practicality of it and gently prodding them and, you know, saying, hey, you know, why don't you just meet with this person, or we don't have to do anything, we can sit down with someone and just talk, you know, get some donuts. I used to call it the Donut Hill Gang. We used to bring in donuts and coffee, you know, anything to kind of get the thing moving, you know what I mean? Food works. Yeah. Because it is, because it is on both sides. I mean, there is a sense of relief, and not everything is always covered. It's complicated. As much as I know, and I just did the whole thing for my son, it's complicated. You need, you need someone that knows what they're doing, you know. And I think having a team of, you know, like doulas and estate managers, and it's just so important to put that team together. You can't do it— caregivers can't do it alone.

And they shouldn't have to.

But we try. Yeah,

yeah, I was just gonna say, I think that the key message away from today's conversation is humans, and we shouldn't be doing things— we are a collective and we love that connectivity that we have, but it really comes into play is people just Support you. There is to help you and help the— and it's not going to all fall on board there. And I think too, for me, is the different levels of— in terms of the instructions. I remember a case that he had said, you know, Resuscitate, which in itself— but one of the things that we were doing as a family when he was sick, we were, um, those sorts of things, or he'd go off to the hospital and they'd give him all those sorts of things. But that was elongating the process, which was the— And it wasn't till we actually were interstate that we actually realised was occurring and that that was actually not what the instructions were. So it's those little things you think you've covered off until you— Family, in our case, and you actually see the differences in the interpretation, the importance of you know, having that party that's not part of their family, those generational emotions, etc., that you can actually— the starting point of that honest conversation.

Yes, and you're, you know, and you're covering the bases, and I think that You know, it's very hard. Again, for the 99th time, it's very hard to do it all yourself. You know, you're not thinking clearly. You're, you know, you're constantly— and having people take care of me, like, another piece of the puzzle sort of slid in place for me, you know, because my family, you know, I could see them trying so hard not to reflect to me how worried they were. You know what I mean? Like, I know them so well. So, you know, oh yeah, you know, and I'm thinking, oh my God, you know, I mean, and they were— And they were— and I know that I do that. I do the same thing. You try really hard not to let your loved one know you're concerned, you know, so you try not to show it. And, you know, that's so much pressure. You don't realize the pressure that you're on. Like, I went, oh my gosh, I did that, you know. Like, I— it's okay, guys. I know this is really scary, you know. But just the pressure they were under not to show me how scared they were, you know. I mean, so you've got that, you know, that's like 75% of your mental capacity in addition to taking care of everything, in addition to making sure everybody's okay, in addition to advocating and making sure that doctor— you know, there's all this stuff. So the last thing you're really thinking about is, gee, was that power of attorney signed the other day?

Yeah, yeah.

And is it the right one? Is it the healthcare one? Is it the financial one? Is it the— you know.

That's why you need that notebook with tabs. Everything is in a tab so that you just flip it through and there you go. But, you know, the, the other thing with, with having all of that in place, it's a living document because life events are going to change. So even if you start it when you're younger, it won't be as complicated because you don't have a lot to worry about. You don't have a lot of assets. You don't have to worry too much about, you know, who's going to be taking care of this, that, or the other. But as time goes on, then that document will change. But if you don't start and you start at the end, oh no, no, no, that's not a good thing.

Yeah, that'll make money, right? It may

sound stressful,

and it's like saving money. If you, if you start when you're 20, you can be a millionaire.

Yeah, yes, you might have something by the time you're 50 or 60.

Yeah, just switch gears now and ask each of either the 3 Key places or your 3 key things to consider. So either the 3 things or the 3 key things to best lands for each.

Okay, could you say that again? Because I couldn't quite hear you.

Can't hear it. Sorry, apologies. I wasn't quite sure. So what, in this scenario where you're helping people with that, the beginning of their journey, 3 things that they need to consider on this journey of feeling lonely, like you as a support person, where do they start?

Okay, uh, the first part of the journey obviously is the beginning. What— where are you in your life? What do you need to have in place? Do you have children? Do you have assets? Um, have you thought about your final wishes? Because directive plans and final wishes are 2 separate things. The directive plans are the legal part of everything. Your will, your living will, your powers of attorney, anything else that you might have that would be legally related. Final wishes are where do you want to die? How do you want to be able to make decisions for yourself depending on your situation? What kind of funeral would you like? What— do you have a religious affiliation or denomination that you would like to follow? How would you like your body to be disposed of? There are many more ways to go other than cremation or burial. We have water ways to disintegrate the body. There is green burial. There are ways to actually have home funerals now where you don't have to be embalmed. And you can have a beautiful ceremony with a celebrant in your own home. There are many, many other options available to us now. Unfortunately, some of those are expensive still because they're not part of the norm, but it's a start. We didn't have them 5 and 10 years ago. Something else to consider is the medical aid in dying, or MAiD. There are 9 states in the United States that actually have programs in place in those states where if you have a terminal illness, you can actually decide when you want to check out, and it is legal, and your loved ones won't go to jail for that. That is something that if you are in a situation like that, that you have those options, you should be aware of them. So Most people don't know this. That's where I come in. That's where all end-of-life doulas come in, or palliative care, or hospice. Uh, we can all work in concert, but I personally can give a family more time because hospice and palliative care are limited in the amount of time that they can give to a family. And where I come in is I can provide more comfort care, more handholding, more education, more ideas of, hey, have you thought about this, or did you know this? So those are the top 5 things I would say that are really important to have a better understanding of and know.

And you've just touched on a whole lot of areas. So I think we've both learned something new for the audience to just pick up on some of those bits that are just not part of them. Thank you. Over to you.

Yeah, you know, and for me, you know, like, because for all my caregiver warriors, the 3 key points for me are, you know, you can't do it alone, you know, you can't do it all at once, and you can't do it perfectly. You know, and it's so simplistic, but it's so powerful. Because, you know, even to this day, if I care for someone, I get right back into those 3 major dangerous areas for myself. I try to do it by myself. I, you know, I try to do it. I try to fix everyone. I try to fix them right away. It's not, it's not really about us fixing anyone. It's about us walking people home. and being with them. And then, you know, we can't do it perfectly. I mean, so it's, you know, all the— and I think a lot of caregivers and people who are, you know, are heading up the team for someone who needs their help, I think a lot of us fall into those traps. You know, we try to do it by ourselves. We don't know how to ask for help, which again, you need help planning, you know, which gets back to that whole conversation. You know, we try to do it perfectly, which is impossible, and we try to do it all at once, and we try to fix everybody. So, um, you know, these are the 3 things that I keep bringing up because, as simple as they sound, it's there. Everybody, everybody hits all 3 of those things at one point in their caregiving journey. It's hard to let go of them.

Very much so. And I think there's a couple of That I'm that I'm curious with both of you, and concept of perfection, which you what are other people going to think plays down as how that key conversations that we're meant to be key person. So it gives on, I suppose, that challenging it right and, you know, but everybody else is going to think about what it is of service and love.

Can I— You know, my perfectionism has always been an issue. I mean, no matter how much work I do on it, you know, I was even trying to be a perfect patient, you know. I mean, it's just, you know, I still think, oh gee, you know, I was so high on that drug, the painkiller, you know, was I making a fool of— you know, I mean, constantly. So I think it's something that, um, I think we were well-intended and I think it's wonderful, but I think we have to be very careful, you know, that, that we just have to understand that we're doing the best we can and With the best intentions and lots of love. And that's all we have to do. We don't have to fix ourselves or them. We just have to show up.

True. And the other thing is—

take care of what—

I'm sorry. The other thing that we as adult primary caregivers have to really be aware of is, is it an obligation or is it an expectation? Because I'm the oldest of 4, it was expected. And I know there are a lot of people in this world who are in this situation in their family dynamic, that if you're the oldest, it's your job, and you get to take on that role whether you want to or not. So that is the expectation. Now, the obligation comes in because they're a family member or a loved one. So the, the dynamics are similar, but they're still a little bit different in how you really go about it and how much you beat yourself up over it. So, you know, those are some of the things that, um, people really need to understand and be aware of.

I agree completely. Sorry, I was

gonna say That, that the, the, the, that you remember us as a family having that job in the early stages. So you've got that, you know, there's a conversation before all of the other conversations. Point of today, there is so much to know. Support to navigate as they come up with that fresh eyes perspective, help to alleviate stress that they're into, so you can get the end result of getting the conversations that you're actually— Can either of you just share a story, a tale, A scenario of where people have been able to have information from that, you know, very fragile, very— to that realisation of, you know, we've got— how did— in other words, it's sort of how have you helped people, as an example? Susan, I'm actually going to touch on you. You actually had more of it there as it relates to how you showed up as that perfect patient. Because I think that— Yeah. You know, the roller coaster ride, want to be a good one. Perfect. Yeah, but how—

Yes, I, you know, I, you know, the thing that was really interesting for me just in general about all of this was that, you know, my mom and I didn't get along, so, um, my caregiving journey with her, uh, changed my life, you know, because we had basically been in dance for many years, just the same dance over and over again. And for many different reasons, you know, now, as I step back, and I'm older, you know, I, you know, she had anxiety, there was a lot of stuff, there was a lot of reasons. But in order for me not to lose my mind and beat myself up, because which we do that, that's, that's sort of our wheelhouse, is I had to find a place where I could communicate and I could be empathetic and I could be soft and gentle as opposed to getting triggered. And it was really difficult. It was really hard. But for me, the breakthrough was, you know, any kind of empathy. In other words, I was able to really finally see her as someone who was suffering from dementia, having nothing to do with the fact that she was my mom. If she had been a stranger, you know, doing what she was doing, I'd be so kind to her. So, but it wasn't a stranger, it was my mother. So, you know, I had to really work hard at changing me. She wasn't going to change, I had to change. So I think there's a key there, and I think it's different for everyone. Um, but I think if we kind of look in the mirror and say, hey, you know, is there something I could be doing differently? Is there something I could change in my relationship? Is there something I could change in my perspective about this so that I'm just not so attack ready all the time? Like, what, you know, a lot of questions for me. It was like, you know, why is this pissing me off so much? I mean, I'm sorry that, you know what I mean, but I had to really look at it. I don't know if you guys had the same situation, but I had to really go, you know, like, stop, what is that? And I had to do some soul searching.

Yeah, I could see that you've got something to add to that, so I'll let you go.

I do, and I agree with Suzanne 100%. I live with my 88-year-old father who is, for the most part, still very able-bodied and can, you know, do a lot of things for himself. But because of his— the fact that I live with him and, um, sometimes he still treats me like I'm 10, um, not that I'm complaining, but, um, I promised my mother I would take care of him. And for the last 5 years, I have been on that soul-searching journey. And setting boundaries. And I never set boundaries before, and that was one of my saving graces, is that I've set boundaries and stuck to them. Because it's the sticking to them that is one of the most difficult things, because I immediately want to shift, and then when I do, I get slapped. So I don't do that anymore. And I'm sure that it has helped our relationship, and it has helped my mental state and my self-care and my self-love because I don't hesitate to do what is best for me. I will do what is necessary and, you know, make sure that he is taken care of, but I also need to put my oxygen mask on first. And that was one of the biggest things that I learned. And I'm still learning.

Yeah, I think on the element of self-care and that your boundary is in place and you've had the— through the power of hindsight of what you've helped other people. And I think, Gem, is that level of confidence now got because Because of the journey that you've been able to help other people, you are— well, you actually are. You're providing them— they can actually have their own self-ease in place so that they can be taking good care of themselves. And when there's stuff going everywhere, you— Yeah. So there is no confidence. So I think that's the conversation, is the, is the level of your, um, your clients and their— have for themselves.

Oh yeah, I love, I love, you know, boundary setting. A thing like setting boundaries, you know, is, is a, is an amazing tool. It's an amazing self-care, self-love tool. self-awareness tool. And I think that, you know, a lot of people when they're struggling with this, with this baggage and this history that we have, um, you know, we, we hesitate to— we think of setting boundaries as something that perhaps is more aggressive than it should be, or we're not being kind, or we're not, you know, whatever it is. And I, and I, I'm glad, Jen, that you bring that up because it's a wonderful tool and it doesn't have to be It doesn't have to be big all at once. It can be— you can start them really slow. And, you know, there's a very healthy way to do this very healthy thing for yourself and for them. And, you know, the consistency of it is wonderful because, you know, as you change— because we can only change us— as we change, they're going to change. It's a different dance. You know, you're changing the dance. And I love the boundary one because that's a great step. You know, it's a step to the right. Yeah. And it's wonderful. And I love tools like that. I love self-care tools like that. And we don't think of those— we think of those as sort of aggressive, selfish tools. And it's not. It's one of the most selfless tools you can possibly use. So I love that.

Well, when we were growing up, that's what we were told. You have no control over anybody else but yourself. And if you do things just for you or, you know, to protect yourself or to self-love, that you're being selfish. That is not the case. Self-love is not being selfish. It is a necessary part of the health— mental, physical, emotional, spiritual— that you need to do. Self-care, self-practice. Because being a caregiver will suck your life force from you if you let it. And you can't let it, because I've seen too many caregivers pass away before the person they're caring for because they have just drained themselves. And I don't want that to happen to people. It isn't necessary to go there. And so that's one of the wonderful things about these platforms. And thank you again, Sally, is to get the word out, to show people it doesn't matter what side of life you're on. It doesn't matter what culture you were in. This is a universal condition. Life is finite and it is going to be for everyone. So let's sit down and deal with it, plan for it, take care of it, take care of ourselves so that we can be happy and live our lives. That's, you know, the bottom line here.

Absolutely. We can thrive. We don't have to just survive as caregivers.

That's right.

We can thrive. I mean, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Was it brutal? Yes. Was it the hardest thing I've ever done? Absolutely. Was it the best thing I've ever done? Absolutely. I mean, I, I healed a relationship with my mother that I never would have done before if I hadn't taken care of her, because I had to heal me.

Yeah.

I did it through self-care for me.

Yes.

And then that was the gift. That was the major gift. It was a major

Beautiful. Brilliant. Thank you. And one thing I just wanted to also touch on is planning. I do, even if it's on just one sheet of paper, being given plans and we've got a plan in place. Janice, I know this relates to your book, Or that, you know, create with those tabs and things in it. You know, it may not be, you know, this size when you first start, but that level of a document, a place family with things written in one place, that one version of— there will be different Different, you know, perceptions of what's written there. But having that written in itself is a boundary, a formula of a plan, and that massive amount of confidence as well. So another layer to the amount of confidence when you've got that outside support that actually— Part of things as well as the caregiving side of things, life things as well. So you— we get into such a deep and beautiful, um, run past a very, very— ask each of you just to share with the audience a way to get in contact with you for those that are watching the show that Ticker, which is a website on it, but I will get them to share to get in contact with them and have support. Over to you girls.

Okay, uh, I do actually have a small giveaway for anyone who would like a list. Uh, I call it the Before and After a Loved One Dies Checklist. If you email me at myangeljanice111@gmail.com and put Sally's gift in the subject line, I'll know that it's from you and I will be happy to send that out. Now it is based for the states, so if you are international, you can still use this list. It will at least be a starting point for you. I'm also on an education platform called pickmybrain.world, and you can go on there and schedule a 30-minute free consultation with me and see if we can work together to help organize you and get you on the path to getting this whole situation accomplished. So I look forward to that very much. Thank you.

That's wonderful. It's really great. I love that. You know, I'm going to be— I'm going

to

be contacting you, so— I can't wait. You know, because I'll put it on my website, you know. So I mean, and that's how you can reach me, you know, caregiverwarrior.com. Um, you know, I started blogging and putting my thoughts down, and it's sort of grown into this thing now that, that, you know, I, I'm constantly sort of sharing what worked for me, you know, and my stories. And I do have a free ebook on there, you know, 7 Tips that you can, you know, new caregivers and even caregivers who have great experience, just reminders of how to take care of yourself. And you can download that on my website. And of course, I was asked to write a wonderful book, Self-Care for Caregivers, and you can get that anywhere that books are sold. So it's, uh, I'd love to hear from everybody.

Thank you very, very much. Thank you so much for being with us, to both of you. It's been bringing you both together with it, with different stages of that conversation, to ask you some questions that the audience will be able to share so much wisdom with each of you. As much as you have any Final insights that you'd like to each share?

My motto is, or my mantra is, see a need, fill a need. And we plan for birth, let's plan for death too.

Excellent, excellent. And mine is, you're a star, you're doing a great job, no matter, no matter how it feels, no matter how bad there is, you know, how, how bad it may challenge you or how intense the journey is, you're doing a great job. Please celebrate every night before you go to bed. Please realize the one wonderful thing you did for the people that you love and that you serve, you know, and make sure you celebrate how wonderful you are.

Add to that, that celebration, and that through celebration and This is where you will find your confidence. It comes through conversations and collaboration and have the abilities to support everybody. You've been listening to a great understanding. I hope you found some insight that can help you have that confidence to move on your chosen journey. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you very, very much, Suzanne. Thank you so much. And seeing you again on another episode of Advised. Thank you very much again to both of you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. One caregiver at a time.