Don't Just Eat Healthy, Be Healthy

of Success Secrets Exposed, where we have intimate conversations with today's thought leaders, changemakers, and disruptors to bring you tools, strategies, and insightful perspectives on personal and business growth, revealing the humanness of both success and challenge. I'm Sally A. Curtis from Monetize Your Content. We're a done-for-you marketing agency that works with brilliant individuals to help them monetize their existing content. We're best known for turning books into 2 years' worth of social media posts. We effectively help you save time, maximize your assets, and become the obvious expert sought after and sold out with a lasting legacy. And today's topic, a very, very exciting one. It's, it is called Don't Just Eat Healthy, Be Healthy. So Despina, who is our great guest today, is a clinical dietitian and a psychologist. She's a passionate healthcare educator and communication consultant for healthcare professionals, a multilingual international speaker who works around the globe with people from different cultures, religions, and beliefs. Her focus lies in the Work With Your Patient approach, a system which she created to help practitioners understand their patients better and and realize the effect of their initial assessment on diagnosis and treatment. In her nutritional topics, she focuses on the role of nutrition in disease prevention. The healing properties of nutrients is a must in her discussions. So please help me welcome to the show Despina.

Hello. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Very excited to be here today.

Thank you very much. And I know it's an early morning for you, so well done and thank you for joining us. So to kick things off, I'd love to ask you, you know, what's— what was the— what started this quest for you? What's the backstory?

Oh, this actually goes back into my childhood. The very first experience was, you know, I was very— I was a little child, when my grandfather was— he broke his arm and I had to visit him in the hospital. So from that moment on, I wanted to become a doctor. So growing up, it was my dream. But at the age of 12, or, you know, 11, 12, I became a volunteer at a local hospital. And I used to help people who come from overseas with the language, with the translation. So I used to go in with the doctor with them and, you know, translate the whole conversation, etc. And there is what drew my attention was the first encounter between health professional and patient, which was so important. More so for the patient, because every time we'd go out, so what do you think? How did you see him? Or was she good? Or, you know, so that was so important for the patient. And I realized that that was not something which was taught to healthcare professionals.

Yes.

It was something that just, you know, depended on their persona, on their upbringing, on their background. There was no real didactic part in it where health professionals were actually taught how to approach a patient, especially in their first encounter. And this made such an impact on me. So growing up after After I saw what a doctor's life is really all about, I didn't want to become a doctor anymore. But the medical field still was my interest. So becoming a clinical dietitian was just such a great fit for me. And then psychology came in as well. And the focus of my interest was patient approach. How do these 2 meet and how do they communicate? Wow. And today I can say that I've been dealing in that field for more than 20 years, 25 years. And I've joined every association that dealt with it. And, you know, throughout the years you could see there's so many different approaches, came out, I investigated each and every one of them. I became a health coach. I was a coach for 3 years. And then I did experiential psychology. I did so much research and I got so involved in the different aspects of human communication. But every time I applied I investigated a methodology, there was something missing. Yeah. It was not quite there. Very good steps, but not really what it should be. So eventually I decided to put together all my knowledge and experience and make up my own theory, which sat well with me, and called it the WIP approach. Which is WWYP: work with your patient, work with yourself, work with the patient.

Yeah.

And the trick in this theory is that health professionals need to first turn the mirror on themselves before they approach the patient. So all the theories out there Instructions and lists how to approach a patient, but if I'm not ready and fit to do that, then— So, that's what the theory is based on, and today I'm in a position where I educate health professionals on this system and I teach them to approach patients, and I use this approach in one-to-one work with my clients or patients.

Yes.

And it's very productive because what happens is at the end of the first meeting, we come to the so-called unique diagnosis of a person. Each and every one of us is unique. We cannot all have the same diagnosis. Because diagnosis is not just the disease, it may be for a health professional, but if you want to really reach a successful treatment and management, you have to diagnose the person.

You have to know who you're talking to.

So that is basically what I do.

Yeah, can I just expand on that? Because What I was just jotting notes down as you were talking, because that concept of uniqueness as individuals, you know, people can grasp that we're all unique. And I'm— and, you know, I can imagine and have experienced when you go into a healthcare professional, they've got their tick boxes. And they're going down their tick boxes. So that's not very— that's sort of that, that bit for not very unique. And I can imagine in the role where you experienced where you would be the translator as well. Not only was there the complexity of a diagnosis and the individuality of the individual being diagnosed, but you've also got the communication barriers and the uncertainty and the fear and all those other things that were playing out when you were in that translator role. So it's no wonder that you saw the depth in Mm-hmm. Into those layers of the—

I'm going

to call it the miscommunication that was going on. So just to help people understand, and I think that's sort of just sort of explaining that way with the tick boxes and all of the, you know, the potential problems. Can you give us a, I suppose, a bad example or a typical example that's not quite good enough from that communication perspective and then sort of talk us a little bit more through that. I'm sort of looking for the, you know, what's common, commonplace until you go into somewhere and actually get them to understand and it transforms. What's the bit before the transformation?

I can, I can give you an example of one of the cases that I had because I've written the initial article on the WIP approach which was published in a medical journal and I give this example example there because I could with this specific patient. It was this lady who walked into my office— that's before having my virtual office, I had a physical office— and she was obviously obese and she wanted to lose weight. So we went through all the medical history and And then, you know, in the initial meeting, I always say that 90% of the time is the time for the patient or for the client. This is when they have to tell their story, but I have to know how to retrieve information. And she told me that she's been to every dietitian in town. She registered in every gym. She did, she did everything. And, you know, somebody told her about me, so she came to me. So I let her speak, and through the questions that I, I asked her, which the purpose is to create the correct platform For the other person to open up and share information. She said, um, I would like to stop you here, and I would like to share with you something that I discuss only with my psychiatrist. And I said, what is it? She said, um, I've been an abused child and an abused wife. So that piece of information changed everything. Because if she hadn't shared this, or if I didn't bring her to a comfort zone to share this information, I would have just given her a diet regimen and another diet in her hand, and she would have walked out of— and we wouldn't have done anything really.

Yeah.

But having that piece of information, I knew that I had to work with her on other domains before she even started thinking of dieting. So the whole diagnosis changed and the whole path of treatment changed. And this was, you know, together with some other pieces of information, was her own unique diagnosis. That is the person I needed to work with, not an obese person, you know, male, age so-and-so.

That changes it dramatically when you, when you share that story because you're literally unlocking the secret code to that unique person's transformation, in essence.

Yeah.

And you don't know, and you don't know that unless you've been able to make some somebody very, very comfortable and they're opening up in that, in that incredibly vulnerable way.

Exactly.

Yeah. One of the questions that I did actually have down for you, and it's probably a good time to sort of share this, was around that the, you know, the fact that some clients may not be ready to talk fully about it and not necessarily tell the entire Which is obviously the case that had occurred with this particular lady as she'd been shopping and she'd been around, but people had not taken the time. They'd done the tick and flick or the tick box process, whereas you were able to have that client, that much more client approach using your system that enabled you to unlock the secret behind what was going to become her success.

Right. Right, because we need to, you know, if somebody knocks at our door, this means that they are, they're asking for help.

Help, yeah.

Yes, and they are willing to talk, but having the correct approach of communication from body language to tone of voice is so key in bringing out All the information. That's very, very important.

Yeah, that's extraordinary. Would you like to expand on a little bit of that as that relates to, to your approach, some of those things that you use around body language and tonation, perhaps as it relates to some of the tips that you share when you're doing your workshops or when you're speaking, that just help give people a bit more clarity?

What I do is really what I do at workshops when I do workshops with health professionals. The first stage is that we do different exercises where we discover certain things. I would say weaknesses in brackets, you know, certain things that we have in ourselves, we know they're there, but we never really understand how they are related to our work.

Mm-hmm.

I may be very sensitive. I may be heartbroken. I may be stingy with money. I may be— but how does this relate with my sessions with my patients? Because remember, I always tell this to participants, the patient x-rays us. Yeah. You know, they walk into our office, we do an x-ray. You're talking, but they are observing everything about you. You know, just like, you know, you're building a house and you have your meeting with an architect or an engineer. interior designer, you don't only listen to what they have to say professionally, you also check them out as people.

Scrutinized.

Yeah, this is what patients do with us. So don't even think for a minute that they don't see our weaknesses. So, and not only that they see But they interpret them. They make stories about them.

Yes.

So it's to our benefit to know how these characteristics that we have relate to our sessions. Because, for example, one characteristic that I have is that I laugh a lot. Sometimes, you know, people— we start a session and I laugh, and some people interpret this that I'm not very Yes. So knowing that about myself, I made a comment, you know, sorry that I laugh, you know, this is my nature, but, you know, I fully understand what you're telling me. And then when I show them that I'm very serious about what they're telling

me,

this sort of explains itself. Right. So first we, we discover a few things about ourselves. Then the second stage, we know how to relate these things to our patients and to our sessions. And then the third stage, I teach them different communication techniques like body language. You know, I use all kinds of methodologies to make up the book approach and NLP and, you know, anything that would work. And then they understand how they can use this to communicate better with their patients. And then they understand how they come and reach the unique diagnosis of their patient. So it's like a 4-stage thing that we go through with the workshops. And, you know, and people who participate, they love it. Yeah, they understand how necessary it is.

Yes, but you don't know what you don't know until someone shares the knowing with you. Yeah, I was reading some of the reviews and some of the, some of the comments on your website about, you know, the way in which that you've— your approach is very simple. It obviously helps them understand it very simple. And they've— lots of people have used the word pioneering, which is awesome. And I can certainly see that with the way the conversation is. What I've just found funny about my own perceptions prior to coming on and having the interview with us, you on your website or in my notes, I had written— I had— it was written down, work with yourself, work with your patient approach. And I've gone, no, that's around the wrong way. So I had actually edited it and sort of gone, well, surely it's the, you know, that. So that was actually interesting that I'd had a perception around that. Now having had the conversation, I now know why that was positioned first on your website versus second. on your website, but I did copy and paste it and sort of went, that's a bit interesting, I'm not quite sure I understand that, and then I changed it. So that, that to me, and that conversation we've had around as to what we bring to face our clients, was— has just made me chuckle because I've just done that myself. Which then reminded me when you were talking about how those little things in our room and how our patients or clients will— and I use the word scrutinize. I was at an event, at a house opening on the weekend, and it was the builder and the architect showcasing their place. And I'm a bit of a neat freak, and I love, you know, I love a good showcase, but, you know, I expect the sinks to be cleaned out. I didn't expect to have builder's dust still on the sink. So I've got— I wanted to get my cloth because to me that should have been cleaned and all those sorts of things. It was the pre— it was a pre-launch before the real launch, so I get why it was there. But it's those sorts of things. I was scrutinizing the, the space because it wasn't where I expected it to be. Um, so it just shows how we do this in it, and we don't realize how we do this every day in every single moment.

Definitely.

So what are some of the realisations or the comments that you have from your healthcare professionals at the end of your workshops or your discussions where they've just suddenly had, you know, massive more amounts of realisations than I've just had in this couple of minutes? They've had a whole day of you.

Well, you know, a lot of times health professionals are a little bit conservative about criticising themselves. or realizing that they have to learn more. Yeah. They, first of all, they say that they want to be trained more. That's one thing. They want more of it. So this is good. I do, of course, keep statistics and 82% of them claim that their sessions with their patients favorably change. So they start using these techniques and they realize how they get more information, more involved with their patients, and that's, that's good. And because I also do that to students as well, like medical students and dietetic students, they definitely think that this is something that needs to be included. Yeah. So they need to learn about it as they study before they get their degree. Yes. Yeah, because one interesting thing that happened to me once is that I went and I did a workshop to medical students and I knew many of their professors. And as I was doing the workshop, I realized internalized attitudes from their professors in them.

Really?

They were behaving like their professors. And that was so interesting. And then when I was discussing that with my mentor, he said, yes, because remember that when you learn in an institution, in a university, you don't only get knowledge. you also learn attitudes. And that was very interesting because, you know, in Greek, you know, I'm Greek and we have a proverb that says, with whichever teacher you sit, that's the education you're going to get. That's good. start to imitate their professors and their attitudes. So I was thinking at that point, oh, so this goes from generation to generation? Yeah, well.

Okay,

I have to fix this. So yeah, and then I realized once we started doing the workshop that how each and every student Bringing out their own personality, you know, and that was wonderful. Yeah, they didn't have

to imitate. And did they notice it? Did they notice it and comment at all on themselves? Did they start to see that?

Yes.

Yeah.

And some of them were even aggravated, which is part of the whole deal, you know, because they sort of, you know, they had Ego. They were graduates, they thought that was it, we have it all. And then all of a sudden this dietitian came along and, you know, pointed out a few things. But it was all for the best, it was all, you know, for a good purpose.

Yeah, very much so. Yeah, that was something I read on your website was the statistics about how the 82%, how people are, you know, wanting more of that because they see, they see that, that change in their behavior within their practice of both obviously themselves and their patients. And something I just was curious, this question has come into my mind a couple of times, as healthcare professionals, and there's that line between being— I'm gonna— these might not be the right words to put Please correct me, but between friendly and familiar, where's that fine line? Could you— because obviously you're, as part of your process, people are getting more vulnerable and they're getting more information, which is what's helping them make better— help themselves and their client make better choices. But obviously when that occurs, that extra opening up occurs, a deeper connection in relationship, this human connection would change as well. So how do they cope or manage that?

It's a very good question. If I become too friendly with my patient, this means that I haven't really done the right steps. I haven't really done the right approach. You need, um, you, you come close enough, but in a professional way, every step of the way, uh, showing your patient or client that whatever we are discussing, we're discussing it for this reason.

Reason, yeah.

Right, so we're discussing it for this reason, and that's where you assert and you that you are a specialist in this, and I'm sort of proving it to you because you said this and this means this to me. This is how this piece of information is going to help you with managing your issue.

Yeah.

But if it's just a social conversation that brings us close and whatever, that's Not

the same.

Yeah, you gain a friendly environment, but you're losing the professional part of it. Yeah,

thank you, thank you for explaining that. Now, when you were explaining your methodology, I could feel that it was very much in that space, but I thought it would be interesting, and I wasn't going to be able to explain it, so I'm glad that I asked the question that enabled that to come out because I could hear people going, yeah, but if you do this, it could, you know, this over here could happen. But it's all about remaining, having that professional approach and outcome-driven, but just that— it's more than empathy, but there's just that, it's that guiding approach and getting that information out to be able to create a better, Mm-hmm. whole environment. For that diagnosis, etc., as well. One of the other things that you talked about is— we've talked about diagnosing the person and not— diagnosing the person and not just the diagnosis. And we've sort of covered on that, which is built out in your methodology. We've also talked about how that your practitioners and your medical and healthcare suddenly realize, you know, how this opens up a whole new world of, you know, treatment and transformation for their clients, which is obviously why they get into the, you know, the medical and the healing space. Mm-hmm. What's— and we talked a little, we started to talk a little bit about nutrition and treatments and those sorts of things. And one of the comments that we had on your website was if you're not happy where you're at Take action. Now that goes for both patient and medical practitioners. So can I ask you to unpack both points?

Yes, it goes for both. And especially, you know, this is a very tricky— I don't know if I can call it a comfort zone where a lot of times Patients have a health professional and there's certain things they don't like about their sessions or their meetings. And then they go, oh, but you know, he's such a, he's a very good person. Or she's a very good, whatever. Like there is one good characteristic that they have, but a few things that bother them.

Mm-hmm.

And they get stuck into this corner of, Okay, yes, I have this, but that— and they stayed and they mingled in that for so long and there's no progress.

Yeah.

So it's okay, and try to share that with your profession, with your health professional, if something is bothering you. Or, you know, it's okay to say, you know, I have this issue. I'm happy that I have this issue and I would like to talk about it.

Yeah, that question and that, that, you know, that statement in itself, you know, yes, it might— you might need to be a bit brave to say it, but doesn't that unlock doors? It's still— as long as the conversation's there, it's unlocking further opportunities. But as humans, it can be so Very, very easy to sit in that accepting and justifying, and it's okay. But you don't realize how long you sit there and how long you actually are staying in that place where— and you use the word no progress— you get stuck in a no progress zone through that accepting. So again, it's just bringing up those next things to have a different conversation. If, if someone's one patients that had that and then it's still not moving forward, then what, what, what can they do next?

They can come to

me,

obviously. Yeah, keep trying, keep trying, because every obstacle in communication is an obstacle in disease management.

Oh, well said. Can you repeat that Yes,

yes,

please.

Every obstacle in communication is an obstacle in disease management, whether you are patient or health professional. Yeah, so yeah, you really want to connect with your patients, with your clients, and you want to connect with your health professional. You know, they have to To be your confidante and, you know, be able to express whatever it is that they need to express. It's for everybody's best.

That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. So on the note of coming back to that, you know, if you're not happy where you are, take action. So if somebody's in a— I'll call it a practice— so we're sort of moving more to the practitioners now, and they themselves may not be happy. Obviously, they can attend your workshops as an individual, and you can obviously do clinic-type workshops as well. But if somebody's going to be the changemaker in a practice, and they want to— how can they get started? And how can they then create the change, not only for themselves, but across the practice?

Well, First of all, if they are interested in this field, because not— see, in healthcare settings, a lot of times there's teams.

Yeah.

And I always tell them, if you yourself are not interested in this thing of communicating with your patients, have somebody in the team that does. It's very important. If you want to be the game changer, you can do it. I mean, you can attend a workshop and then try to translate that to your patients, and word travels fast.

Yes.

So if you start making a change with your own patients and other health professionals start, oh wow, so how did you do that? Or you discover something about a patient that's been there for years, and all of a sudden you discover something that you should have known years back, but it never really popped out in a conversation for some reason. Yes. And everybody gets interested in, wow, so how did you, how did you get that piece of information? How did How did it happen that he said that or that she said that? And this is like giving bait to the rest of the team and putting them in this game.

Yeah, yeah, very much so. No, that's— thank you for sharing that. So, um, how can people find out about your workshops and connect with you and those sorts of things as well, just so we make sure we capture that today because we're having such a great conversation?

First stop would be my website where I explain everything about my work, the one-to-one and the workshops that I offer. I'm also on LinkedIn. As you know, my website is my name, despinavaraklas.com, and LinkedIn, I'm as Despina Varaklas, and also on Facebook. But LinkedIn is basically the main platform I work on. The LinkedIn and

the

website.

Yeah, excellent. No, that's fantastic. Thank you. So I'd love to just— we've still got a few minutes left, but I wanted to make sure we sort of really got— was able to flesh out your patient approach and that understanding of what we bring to that and what the patient brings to that and where the opportunities lie for the individual as well as the As well as the organization, with a healthcare practitioner and organization. You're obviously very, very well known with the dietitian work that you do and the nutrition as it relates to disease as well. Just in the last few minutes, do you just want to explain a little bit about where you specialize in that nutrients and dietitian space so people have a bit more of a concept of that so we don't miss the part 2, please?

Okay. The fields I concentrated on for many years were diabetes, cancer, and eating disorders. But a common ground in everything is my focus on the role of disease— of nutrition in disease prevention.

Me too.

Because as years have gone by, we've seen how the food that reaches out of aid is very different than what it used to be. Yeah. And one important thing to realize is that in every other field, if something gets on the market and it proves that it's not really, you know, to our benefit, or something better, for example, you know, a A machine in a gym. Oh, it proves that really it's not good for the health. It's withdrawal. If medication goes in the market and then it proves that it has side effects, withdrawal. It doesn't happen with

food. No.

So many things that came in the market that we everybody knows they're not really for your health, you know. Or they're harmful. They're never good to market.

Yes, I try to avoid those.

And this is really— so my approach is like, I'm not going to deal with what's harmful, but I have the obligation to bring to the surface and be the ambassador of the good, of the good things. And the good things remain, you know, the basic, The very basic things that we eat, like olives and olive oil. And, you know, and when we talk about disease prevention, this is what disease prevention is. Disease prevention begins— the starting point of disease prevention is when an individual is healthy.

Okay.

We have a healthy individual and we talk about disease prevention. A lot of times if you look into the research and bibliography, everything that's out there, when they talk about disease prevention, they take it midway. Somebody already has high blood pressure or their sugar levels are not, you know, that— so let's talk about disease prevention. Well, you're already talking about somebody who is at risk. What about someone who is healthy?

Yeah.

And how do we prevent them from going to the place where they are already at risk?

Yeah.

For something. And nature gives such great, great tools. I mean, I tell them there's 5 things that if you eat every day, You've, you've really accomplished something. And then so simple, honey. Honey has more than 180 different nutrients. Just 1 teaspoon a day, but you know, pure honey. Yeah, be careful. Yes, then we have olive oil. I cannot say much about olive oil. Olives, and the difference between olives and olive oil. Onion and garlic.

Oh wow!

Raw onion and garlic.

These are—

I mean, onion reduces the risk of many cancers by 8— from 55 to 85%. I mean, this is disease prevention. This is disease prevention.

And you got to say raw, didn't you? Raw onion.

Raw, raw. Yes. Onion, I mean garlic. Garlic can terminate organisms like fungus and viruses just by contact alone. I mean, nothing does this. There's no medication that does this. I mean, so if we take advantage of these things and include them in our everyday everyday nutrition, we've done great steps. And this is why I opened a YouTube channel where every episode is about a different, you know, product of nature because, you know, somebody needs to be the ambassador for these things. We don't talk about these things anymore.

Yeah.

So I always try to include this conversation in my sessions with my clients. Because especially in the Western world, many things, simple things, are not known.

Well, I was gonna say, you've— yeah, I was gonna say, I've got forgotten. Yeah, we've just got busy and we've forgotten and we've got process orientated and speed orientated and savings. And yeah, yeah, because— and the reason I kept questioning the raw onion. Sorry, my pen's going because I was writing notes. I remember having salads as a kid with sliced raw onion in them, and that's something— yeah, and that was what we did. But I, as a mother, have not done that. And I was like, you did say raw onion to me, and it was— it's that simple, but it just— We can change that much when we're not— we don't have the awareness. And that's why I love these conversations, because you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you've forgotten until someone brings it back into your awareness.

Exactly.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And I had to, as I was scribbling honey down, just incognito, I had to write pure next to it because that was a— that's— there's a big difference. I would imagine between honey that we see on shelves versus honey that's pure.

And this is what I tell people when they go on trips and they try to buy souvenirs. I said instead of buying souvenirs, try to find out what's locally grown or produced and grab it, get a little bit of that, you know. Yeah, oh,

that's, that's, that's just goosebumps just even thinking. That's such a great tip. Well done. Thank you. That's awesome. So on that note, one of the other things I always like to ask is, what is your favorite one-liner? I've got quite a few I've picked up of yours, but what's your favorite one-liner?

Give your body the best of the best. Treat your body like it's You know, have it at such a high level. Only the best for me. Only the best. You know, whether it's food or treatment or behavior,

you

know, treat treat your body like you're the best princess in the world or the king of the hill, or I don't know. Yeah.

Don't expect. Yeah, sorry.

Don't compensate.

Don't accept. Accepting. That was— I've written that down in big letters. You know how we get stuck in that accepting, um, patterns and things again. And I, I wanted to add to that, that, you know, treating the body as your shrine and picking up those instead of souvenirs, the souvenirs of the goodness from when you're traveling. Because isn't that sort of— to me, that's the— that, that energetic, um, abundance vibrational energy. So you actually are putting so much more goodness in, which helps with the perceptions and all those other, you know, just transitions all the way down, just goes all the way down. That's fantastic. Thank you. Any closing thoughts?

Any closing thoughts? First of all, I'm so happy that we had the opportunity to share this, and with the Australian audience, Yes. That's wonderful. Anything, you know, that you may have in mind, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact, you know, just even a short conversation to share anything, because we all deserve to give the best to ourselves. So if something is bothering us, Regarding your health, your health professional, your patients, just give me a buzz. And, you know, don't keep quiet. Don't keep it to yourselves. Just give the call. Make the call.

Yeah, absolutely. Give the call. Thank you. Very well said. So thank you very, very much for joining us on the show. Thank you. It's been incredible to share your wisdom and your insights, and I've got lots of little scribbled notes written down. And I can really tell why people refer to you as, you know, turning the complex into the very simple, and why people have seen you as pioneering in this space of communication. And I just want to go back to reiterate that Despina is a passionate healthcare educator and Communication consultant. And that's where the key is in that communication and your process, which is work with your— work with yourself, which is why it comes first, work with yourself, and then work with your patients. That's the same methodology. And so something certainly worthwhile grasping hold of, especially if you're find yourself as a clinician, or as a client sitting in a place of acceptance and feeling a bit stuck and not quite getting everything that you want, there's a massive opportunity to connect with an expert and have some of that opportunity for yourself. So again, Despina, thank you so much for sharing with us today. Greatly appreciated.

Honour to me. Thank you, Sally.

You're very welcome. We look forward to seeing you again on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Till then, see you later. Bye.