How to have THAT conversation

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Welcome to the Legacy Leavers series on Success Secrets Exposed. Tune in live every Tuesday at 7 PM Eastern time or Wednesday mornings in Australia on W4CY Radio and Talk4TV. The series showcases experts, changemakers, and disruptors leaving a lasting legacy with those sharing their wisdom with the world. Thanks for joining us.

Good morning, good evening, and g'day to you all, and welcome to another episode of Success Secrets Exposed, where today we're going to be talking about how to have that conversation. Today I have a truly remarkable guest, Jem Fuller. Now, Jem has lived a colorful life from being a barefoot backpacker to a corporate leader, a fire dancer, and even a traditional tattooist. And over the last decade, he has taken his vast global experiences and distilled them down into his work as an executive leadership coach, guiding leaders towards conscious communication and inner peace. Now, he's also an award-winning author with the book, The Art of Conscious Communication. And you can also see his powerful TED Talk on YouTube. Now, Jem's approach to leadership and communication is rooted in practical spirituality with an emphasis on presence and acceptance. And he leads international retreats in the Himalayas, Bali, and here in Australia. And today he's here to share some incredibly practical insights on how we can communicate more consciously and create deeper connections both in our personal and professional lives. Please help me welcome to the show, Jim Fuller.

Hey, Sally, thank you so much for having me on your show.

You're very, very welcome. I've been excitedly waiting to connect and being able to share some of your wisdom with our audience. So thank you very, very much.

Yep, I've been excited too. And here we are.

Yeah, absolutely. Up for a great conversation. So you've had an incredibly colorful life, as we mentioned, and everyone's got the story behind the story. And you Your mission is very much to connect and communicate or help people connect and communicate more consciously. So what has sparked this in your life? What's the backstory?

It's interesting, isn't it? You know, as we get older, we can look back through the lens of the present moment and understand the past with some more meaning behind it. You know, when I was younger, really, it was just, I was enthralled with traveling, um, you know, from the age of 18 right through to my early 30s. If I wasn't somewhere weird and wonderful, I was somewhere else earning money to get into weird and wonderful places. And back then, if you had asked me, you know, what drives you, I would have just said I just love adventure and I love connecting with people cross-culturally. It was, um, I was always driven to get myself into countries that were really different to where I grew up.

Hmm.

I wasn't so much interested in traveling to places very similar to home. So I would get off the beaten track as far as I could. And I, you know, I am looking back now and understanding it more deeply, but I was really driven to connect with humans across great divides of difference. You know, people who had a very different spiritual or religious or socio understanding of life with different foods and different language, obviously, and different geography and that. And I didn't understand why at the time. But now looking back, you know, it makes sense to me because I think not only are we a social species and we need each other, we know none of us can survive on our own.

Mm-hmm.

But I think really with humanity and where it's at now, and we are facing some pretty potentially cataclysmic global unfolding events, you know, and the scales could be tipped either way. And obviously we're hoping that we can help tip the scales of humanity in the right direction. But to do that, We need to work together. We need to connect. And to solve the bigger problems, I really believe that we need to harness the power of diversity. So we need to have a really broad range of people sitting around a table together and sharing ideas on how we can come up with solutions for some of the bigger problems. And to do that, we need to be able to communicate consciously and effectively with each other.

Yeah, yeah, very much so. And that, um, you know, that deep dive into diversity and all of those ways in which you have obviously, as you said, contributed to what you do now and the impact that you're making. How do you see, just from your perspective, the legacy impacting— the legacy that you're leaving impacting what occurs in the future? Because I know this, the driving force of bringing people together to solve these bigger problems is part of the backstory and part of the—

Yeah.

New steps for you.

Yeah, it's interesting, the idea of legacy, um, and, and it can be completely local. So for example, most, most, um, immediate to me and, and personal to me, um, are my children. And, you know, after I'm gone, I'm hoping that they are, you know, that they have been obviously influenced in ways. And I'm— my, my boys now are 20 and 18, and I'm starting to see this already. So their ability communicate and to express themselves is wonderful. And I'm so relieved because that's something I was hoping for. Um, so there's that, there's the immediate personal legacy, and then the broader legacy. Um, you know, I mean, I, I'm, I'm passionately connecting and communicating with amazing people around the world as I possibly can. In fact, when I look at my calendar each week now, I'm lucky enough to be in a position where my money-earning time where I have to earn money to feed the kids and put a roof over the family's head. I'm lucky enough now that that only needs to constitute less than half of my time. The rest of my time I'm connecting with people globally and seeing how I can support them in their endeavors. And so it really is about creating a network of good people doing amazing things and supporting each other. I love introducing people for no other reason than that the introduction might, um, you know, sprout something for them. You know, I'm not, I'm not thinking about what I can get from it. I'm thinking that they might actually help each other in their endeavors and help humanity. So I get to spend a lot of time doing that. So the legacy that I leave, um, when I'm gone and my name is forgotten, because that is what is going to happen, could be just that I played a small part in creating networks of humans who work together to make the world a better place.

Yeah, yeah, well said. 2 points for me. My son's 21, so I can relate to the communication. We've just celebrated his 21st and everyone commented on, you know, his communication level compared to lots of other kids his age, which was, you know, incredibly heartwarming and all those sorts of things. Yeah. So it's nice to have that mirror reflection of yourself and, you know, the input that you've had on other very close to your human beings and being that natural connector. I can totally relate to, you know, the ability to connect people and just watch the sparks fly of, you know, opportunities and possibilities and just see those things grow and evolve into something. Sometimes that happens quickly. Sometimes it happens over time. But the ability to do that is extraordinary. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's a human need. We need to connect. And it's inbuilt within us. because the only way we could survive off the savanna plains was by working together, you know, initially in, in smaller social groups. And then as ideas and stories could be shared,

Mm-hmm.

that we could create larger global communities because we believed in the same things.

Mm-hmm.

And it's, it's vital for our survival that we, that we connect. Mm-hmm. And so that's why it, it's, um, concerning that due to algorithms and other incentives, especially with the online world at the moment, that people are being pitted against each other and that there are divides forming and being escalated and amplified by platforms like Twitter or whatever, where the clickbait is to enrage people. And it's concerning because it doesn't need to be like that. And in fact, I think we should be moving in the opposite direction. When I find myself now Practicing open-mindedness, which takes practice and it takes effort because we're naturally closed-minded. We have confirmation bias. If we see an opposing opinion to ours, our initial reaction is to defend our own opinion because we've identified with it. Yeah. So to practice open-mindedness looks like if I meet someone and they have a contrary belief or idea to me, that in that moment I'm pausing and going, oh, wow. Wow, you see it so differently to me. And I'm switching on curiosity. Yes. Now I'm gonna seek to understand. I really wanna try and understand how you've come to that point of view. Not because I'm necessarily going to agree with you. I may or may not, but at least in the process, I'm opening myself to you and respecting that you've come to this from a different, through a different lens. And so I think we could all do well to, you know, be communicating more consciously, which means leaning in and seeking to understand.

Yeah, and that's incredibly powerful, that opportunity to pause long enough to turn on curiosity, because it is very, very easy to react. But if you practice— and I understand why you've said practice, because you've got to practice that pause, haven't you, to actually pause enough to be curious. Yeah. So with the diverse life that you've had and all of those experiences that you've had when you've been entrenched in other people's worlds and the diversity of their worlds. How's that shaped this, the understanding of this conscious communication, these elements of conscious communication for you that you now bring forward into the leadership and corporate space?

Yeah, it's a great question. So if we have a look at the term conscious communication that I use a lot and break it down into its simplest definitions, to be more conscious of anything is just to be more aware of it. So the more conscious I am of something, the more aware of it I am. And communication comes from the Latin, communicatio and communicare, which is, the noun is a sharing.

Yeah, wow.

And the verb is to make common. So communication's not a telling, it's not me telling you something, it's me sharing something with you and hopefully that we, to make it common so that we come to an understanding. So the more aware of that I am, the better placed I'm going to be in my part of the communication, both as a listener and also as a communicator.

Ooh.

And really the consciousness comes into, initially comes into a much more expanded version of self-awareness. Because when we're not self-aware, it's our ego, our sense of identity that's driving the bus. Yep. And that's okay. We all have an ego. We need to have one. It's there to keep us safe and protected and And so on. But when it's left unchecked, so when you're not aware of yourself and your ego, your ego is driving your bus, right? And the ego is necessarily defensive because it's trying to keep you safe. So if someone attacks your sense of identity, and by the way, that means your, your politic or your ideology or your beliefs, if someone attacks those, your ego takes it like it's a real life and death Attack, threat, and it gets very, very defensive. So we're not listening then. We're queuing up and waiting to speak. We're queuing up and waiting to jump in and defend our point of view or convince the other person that we're right and they're wrong. And, or we're getting judgmental, or we're becoming enraged or inflamed, and then the conversation deteriorates. So I think really the first step in becoming more conscious is to be aware of your ego and when it's trying to jump in. Um, and, and like you said then, Sally, practicing that the pause. Because in the moment of pausing and not reacting, then there's some options in front of you.

Mm-hmm.

You know, then it's like, oh, I could, I could respond in this way, or I could sit here and car park my ego for a second and just listen. You know, I could let go of the need to defend. I'm, I'm actually safe. There's no lion coming to eat me right now. You know, I'm not running for my life on the savanna plains, which is what the ego is wired to protect us from. No, I'm actually just sitting here in a conversation with someone who— and we're disagreeing, you know. So yeah, I hope that helps with the idea of conscious communication a bit.

Yeah, very much so. And I think that's— I wanted to explore that with you because obviously conscious is a word that's being used a lot in lots of different ways, which is giving us a different thinking or thought pattern or perspective on the old ways of doing things, if we want to sort of, sort of the old ways and the new ways. It is giving us that new, more liberating, more curious opportunity to discover things. So, I think I really wanted to explore the element of consciousness and bring it back to that. Now, I also want to ask you, as it relates to that part of the communication bit, the title of what we're talking about today is How to Have That Conversation. So, let's talk about what the that is from your perspective and experience with the people that you work with.

Yeah, I was just last Monday, um, I was invited back onto another TEDx stage and they asked me to do a TEDx talk on how to have that conversation. Um, so that was an honor to, to be on that stage again. That conversation is the one you've been avoiding.

Yeah,

the one you feel like you really should have But the idea of having it troubles you so much you kick the can down the road.

Yeah, we've all done that.

That's that conversation. And everyone I talk to goes, oh wow, yes, I know what you're talking about. And a lot of people still have, currently have, uh, that conversation. And it can be with anyone. It can be, you know, deeply personal. It could be with one of your parents, um, or it could be with a boss or a colleague or a teammate or a friend, you know, and it's— and we just don't know how to approach it. And we're worried that it might be misinterpreted or it might go the wrong way or it might cause a rift between us. And, and so we avoid it. But what we're also avoiding in that, um, in that process is we're avoiding investigating the costs we're incurring, you know.

Oh.

And, and when we hold on to that conversation, let's take, for example, um, a an intimate relationship, say with your partner, your husband or wife or partner. If you're holding onto something that has been left unsaid, but you're carrying that burden of that, it can have damaging effects on your health. Mm-hmm. You know, we're talking about anxiety or sleep problems or immune system suppression or digestive issues or headaches or migraines and so on and so on. It can really have a negative impact on us in terms of our wellbeing. So I think it's a good thing to do. And, you know, it's interesting, sometimes, sometimes we don't actually need to have that conversation to get what we really want with it. So what I'm suggesting is that we start by asking ourselves why. Why do I think or feel that I need to have that conversation?

Okay.

And I don't just mean the surface-level reactive answer to why. I mean the deepest reason why, or the highest reason why. You know, so you might, um, your partner might have done something that has, and you've become triggered and you got upset and you think, I need to go and tell them I'm upset, right? That's the first reason why. Why? Well, because I want them to know I'm upset. That's the surface level reason why to have the conversation. Why do you want them to know you're upset? Well, because I don't want them to do that again. Why do you not want them to do that again? Well, because I don't want to be upset. I want to be happy and calm with each other. And why do you want that? Well, because I love him or her, and, and I want us to be in harmony together. So now we're starting to get to the real reason why you want to have the conversation. You want to have the conversation because you want to be in harmony and love with your partner, not because you want to tell them you're angry.

Mm-hmm.

And so this coming to the, the real reason why, first of all, can let you know whether you should have the conversation or not, because it's an indication of inner work to be done. You know, there was a— I talk about this in the TEDx talk— there was a conversation I thought for decades that I needed to have with my dad, you know, and I wanted to tell him that the way he treated me when I was little was terrible and had negative impacts on me, and I wanted him to know that.

Mm-hmm.

But when I looked at the real reason why did I want to have the conversation, well, it was because I wanted to love him unconditionally and come to a place of inner peace together. That was the why.

Mm-hmm.

And I missed the boat with my dad because I'd been kicking the can down the road for so long. When he was diagnosed with his brain tumor, his mental function was already, um, limited. And then through the last year of his life, he had a, he had a, a glioblastoma in the front right hemisphere. So in the last year of his life, as his mental ability deteriorated, he was no longer capable of nuanced emotional comprehension.

Mm-hmm.

So I couldn't have that conversation with him cuz he wouldn't have been able to understand what I was saying.

Mm-hmm.

So I missed the boat, but then I returned back to, well, why did I need to have that conversation with him in the first place? Well, it was for inner peace and unconditional love. So then I could come to that within myself. I didn't need to have the conversation. I came to a full place of acceptance of him and me and the past and everything. And then in the months before he died, the, that conversation ended up being so beautifully concise and concentrated. We just had a big long hug. We breathed together. And then after our hug, we looked each other in the eyes and said, I love you. And we were free and we were both resolved. So I got the outcome that I was hoping for without having to have that conversation in the way I thought I needed to have it, if you know what I mean.

Yeah. So if I, what I've just taken from that is, um, in that particular case, the communication wasn't just about the words. the spoken words. It was the conversation you were having with yourself internally and your body elements, and then it was an expression of what you had discovered.

Yeah.

For yourself. And then you brought that together. Wow.

Yeah, completely. You know, and I believe that, I believe that if you can come to a place of resolution internally before having that conversation, so if you can come to a place of unconditional love and acceptance and inner peace, with yourself and with the person, the other person, that when you go into that conversation with them, the state of being that you're in when you enter the communication allows for a much less defensive reaction because energetically they can feel that you're at peace. You're not coming in and blaming them or trying to get them to admit fault or apologize. You don't have that agenda anymore. You're coming from a place of love. Right. And that the other person, we're very sensitive, us humans. We're very sensitive to all sorts of signals in communication. And if someone comes in, that state of being comes into the conversation, the recipient is way less defensive, you know, way more open to understanding, which is ultimately what communication's about, right?

Yeah, yeah. I love that, the description that was coming into mind when you were talking about that. And we've all had the experience where we've walked into a room when someone's just had an argument and the room feels prickly.

Yeah.

There's a room where, you know, that when you walk into a room and it's not prickly and you can feel the, the essence of the love and the vibe in the room, that, you know, that sensation of just walking in is, is dramatically different, um, in that scenario. Yeah. Love that.

Yeah. It's, it's fascinating how sensitive we are in terms of picking up energy.

Yeah. And do you, do you find that that is an area from a human consciousness perspective that we're Re— I'm going to use the word rediscovering at the moment as humans right now, that we've— we're becoming more aware of that and re-aware of that energetic connection. What's your experience?

Yeah, yes, it depends. It depends who you talk to. I, I focus on— I focus on people who are positive and actively practicing um, improving their awareness and their consciousness, uh, and, and also in a, in a place of service. So actively doing something to try and help the greater good. That's the people I focus on. And it's interesting, what you focus on shows up more, right?

Yeah.

Um, if you scroll through my social media feed, it's all positive news.

Yes. Yes.

There's none of the terrible stuff in there. I know the terrible stuff's going on. You know, it's pretty hard to avoid that. I know the terrible stuff's going on, but I choose not to focus on it. Yeah. And whether this actually helps the final outcome of humanity or not, I don't know, and I'm not attached to, but it certainly makes my life each day much more pleasant because I hang out with positive people who are looking for solutions and are actually taking action to try and make the world a better place. So my day-to-day experience is much nicer. So in the circles that I hang out in, yes, levels of consciousness are being raised and we are remembering, um, our abilities to be highly tuned to energetics and to each other and to vibrations and to all that sort of stuff. And I think not even just remembering, I think we are, um, improving our ability to do that. Right.

Yeah. Embracing and improving. Yeah. Great.

You know, but then, then there's other people who, um, you know, who are not, you know, there are people who are doubling down on Um, the fear-based atrocities, you know, like let's wipe out or exterminate that group of people because they're different to us, you know. And so there are people that are living that reality right now, um, and, and my heart completely goes out to all of them and with, with complete compassion because it's just so tragic and sad that there are people still locked in, um, in that vibration. Yeah. Um, but it is happening. Um, and, and thankfully for me, I'm very, very, very grateful. And, and it doesn't escape me how lucky I am. There's so much luck to build, to have been born where I was born, to who I was born to, and all of the pieces of luck that come into it. So I'm super, super grateful. Um, but yeah, I don't know. It's interesting, Sally. I mean, it's a big question. Which way is humanity going to go? You know, there are these self-destructive paths looming over us right now. Yeah. And there's, um, you know, political and, and geopolitical things that are happening right now. It's like, wow, I really don't know. And then AI coming as well and, and not coming is here. And the large language models and what that's gonna look like in 5 years from now, I've got no idea. Um, but I'm playing the game. I'm, I'm on the side that's trying to raise consciousness and come from a place of love, you know? So.

Yeah. Yeah, very much so. So something that always comes up for me when you and I talk is, and I'm going to use the word presence, you have this deep connection and presence. And obviously presence is key in communication to be able to pick up all those little nuances. You have to be present and aware, etc. And we've got that acceptance. So how are you helping, or how do you help leaders bring in more of that presence as it relates to I'm going to say presence for themselves and then the work that they're doing for the corporation. Because there's obviously lots of elements around communication when you're working with the executives. They're obviously in organizations and there's lots of egos and driven agendas and all those sorts of things. How are you helping— how do you help people with that? What problems are you seeing people come with that? Because I suspect, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that that presence and that awareness is actually helping, um, create the pathway for their inner peace and their extended journey.

Um,

I know that was a lot.

Sorry. No, that's great. I get it. How do we improve our ability to be present? Well, the good, the good news is that, um, it's, it's a skill. It's a, it's an ability. It's a, that we can develop. It's a muscle that we can, that we can exercise. being present. And quite simply, the most effective way to develop the ability for me over the decades has been a consistent practice of mindfulness meditation.

Beautiful.

You know, and we, we actually can get better at being present. And the more present you are, um, well, there's so many benefits. The first, the first that comes to mind is the person that you're in communication with feels it in some way. They're like, wow, you're so present. You're just, you're right here with me right now. So the quality of the communication or the quality of the work that you're doing together, the quality of that moment, the quality of the love, if it's in a personal relationship, is amplified.

Mm.

You know, also when you're present, um, you're less distracted, you're more productive, you're more efficient, you're more clear, you're more creative. problem-solving abilities better. There's so many benefits to developing, um, the ability of inner peace and presence of the mind, you know. And it's interesting, Sally, I mean, you think about it, right? Our whole experience of everything can only be experienced in our mind,

right?

Mm-hmm. Even your body. So when I— when you pick up, uh, you pick up a glass of water and you feel the sensation of of gripping the water, that physical sensation can only be consciously appreciated in your mind,

right?

Mm-hmm. And, and when I'm, when I'm perceiving you, for example, so I can see you, I mean, we're on a virtual call, so I can't, um, we're not in the room together, so it's none of the physical stuff, but there's information that's reaching me that tells me that you're there. So what I can see, what I can hear, but that information's going through my filtering system.

Mm-hmm.

Right? As, as, so there's light reaching my eyes and the sound waves reaching my ears, and then I'm reproducing that information as a very vivid hallucination inside my head. Yeah. So I'm, I'm experiencing you in my mind. So the quality of my mind matters.

Mm-hmm.

If I'm not in a great state of mind, uh, that's distorting my, my version of you.

Mm-hmm.

Right? If I was a very angry person who'd had a very traumatic background and I was still stuck in a state of anger and trauma, I might perceive you as someone who's untrustworthy, or that I don't like, or that you're aggressive, or you've got a hidden agenda. I, I might perceive that, and that would be my reality of you, which is not the real you, you know. Or if I was a different person— well, just say I'm me, Jem, and I've done a lot of work on clearing out, smoothing out the creases from the past and creating inner peace— I see a beautiful warm-hearted human who is driven to try and make the world a better place.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so 2 very different versions of Sally, but it's just depending on the person. So the quality of your mind matters, you know, and this is something that you don't just have to, you know, cross your fingers and go, oh, well, I hope the quality of my mind's okay. No, you can have a lot to say about the quality of your mind. You know, we go to the gym and work out. go and exercise our bodies because we know healthy body, but we don't do anything to exercise and create a healthy mind. And mindfulness meditation is, for me, the most effective way to do that.

Yeah, yeah, beautiful. And again, I come back to that— it's those practices and those rituals, because, you know, my— one of my Sally nags is around consistency, and it's consistency in all those levels. It's— people always say, oh, how did you You know, how do you do that? Well, it's learned something, but I've just practiced it often enough that it's become a habit. Do I have to work on it remaining as a habit and a routine? Yes, because if I get out of that habit, it's very easy to get out of that habit and you've got to get back into that habit. So it is that continual ritual or routine or whatever word you want to call it. Yeah. In that space.

Yeah, absolutely. It's not, it's not, um, you don't kind of tick a box and, and you did that thing and so now you have inner peace or contentment or fulfillment. It's a practice. It's like yoga. You don't go and get good at yoga and then stop doing yoga and expect to stay flexible and strong. If yoga works for you, you keep doing it. It's the same with mindfulness meditation. You know, I, I, I I mean, I can't tell the future, but if I had— if I was a gambling man, I would put money down and say I will meditate for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

Um, because I've got to a point now where I actually enjoy it. Um, and it's like affirmations, you know, I do my affirmations every morning. Um, you know, exercise, you know, I'm hoping that I'll exercise for as long as I possibly can because I know if I exercise now and, and remain strong in my 50s and keep exercising and remain strong, then in my 90s it'll be much more enjoyable.

Yeah, absolutely. We just had a question just pop across the screen as it relates to, um, reading, uh, learning, reading to learn. Um, will learning new things help work the mind? So I'll let you answer that and then I'll come back.

Yes, yes, yes. The short answer is yes. And every time you're learning something new, you're sparking new neural connections. Uh, and that's like exercising the mind as well. So learning or learning new things. Trying new things, um, and, and also the mind-body doing new things. So you've never played tennis before, learning how to serve a tennis ball and hit a tennis ball is good for you, good for your mental health. Um, yeah, so yes, the answer is

yeah. Beautiful. I'm gonna, um, jump across now to, um, there was a word that you said before and I wrote down which was amplified. And when I heard that word, it brought me back to the conversation that we had briefly around, uh, it was originally around the retreat that you run in the Himalayas there. So you run retreats in a couple of different locations. And I know you have an incredible group of people that come together in that. So can you give, give the audience a bit of a, I don't know, a teaser or a bit of a back— a bit of a backstory as it relates to your retreats and the amplification that occurs for the individuals, yourself, and then the globe out of those retreats? Because I think that is incredibly inspiring and people need

to know. The Himalaya program is deeply personal for me. We are based out of the homestay of my family, my Indian Himalayan adopted family. And I met them back in the '90s and lived with them and lived with them for quite a long time and became a part of their family and then a part of the village community. So this is up in Himachal Pradesh, which is north of Delhi. We're nestled in the Himalayan Mountains and we're nestled in between Tibet and Pakistan. But it's like the Switzerland of this part of the world. It's so peaceful. The people are absolutely gorgeous and the mountains are breathtakingly stunning. And there's something, Sally, there's something extra special about this particular neck of the woods. Yes. Um, you know, I've been in the, in those mountain ranges all the way from Pakistan through Tibet and and Nepal and India, and they're all beautiful.

Mm-hmm.

But this particular part of the Himalayas, there's something indescribable about it energetically. It's a really healing area. Anyway, when I was back there in the, in the '90s, I had a feeling I was going to take people there, and I didn't know what that looked like. My brother over there, who's the holy man of the village, um, who also is a conservationist, he said, well, when you bring people here, let's take them trekking, get them, get them off the grid, and go and pick up rubbish. That was his idea back in the '90s. Anyway, fast forward all these years later, in 2013, I had a download and I was like, oh wow, it's a personal leadership development retreat. And we started running the retreat in 2014 and taking people over there. And yes, we did pick up rubbish, but we've done so much more than that now. So we've built a little school there, we sponsor some kids through school there, we've put a rubbish collection education program in, we're doing work that we can. We raised money last year. They were decimated with floods, and we raised money to rebuild homes, etc. So there's the amplification of the positive impact that we're having on the ground over there, um, and the best is yet to come for that. The amplification for the people who come away. So I teach principles of inner peace, and one of those is meaningful contribution.

Mm-hmm.

There is a, there is a certain amount of peace to be attained and curated by being engaged in service and not just, not just throwing money at a charity, a charity that you have no connection to just to make yourself feel better. I know I'm talking about finding out what it is in life that you are passionately engaged with and what can you do as an act of service to help that particular part of contribution for you. I think this is a really important part. So now we've launched Meaning on the Mountain: The Path to Inner Peace. And the target market now for October 2025 is exitpreneurs and exit founders for whom money and time are no longer barriers. So they ticked all the boxes in terms of creating success, but they still haven't quite found that contentment, deep contentment or fulfillment. They're still like, but what's, what's it for? I mean, I've created all this wealth, but I'm still not feeling that inner peace.

Yeah.

And so that's who the program is for now. It's a 2-week full top-shelf immersion in October 2025. And the reason I'm so excited about this is because the level that we're playing at now, the ripple effect will actually become waves. So when I have these high net worth individuals connected to their own meaningful contribution, then they will go forth in service and be doing beautiful things. even more than what they've done before. Our ability to be able to channel funds back into the communities in the Himalaya will be amplified, coming back to your word of amplified. So we're taking it to the next level. There's no third-party intermediary between us and the charity work. It's not like we're going through World Vision. The money is going directly to the people on the ground there, which is amazing. Yeah. We're partnering with an education, a global education platform that make They're democratizing education access for developing countries and poorer communities. So we're partnering with them to get an education platform into the villages. There's also an organization that we're partnering with, and they are creating a circular love-based economy where they pay poorer communities to meditate love and send love to their corporate sponsors. Cool. Right? And so they're building these love farms. Um, you can look up the World's Greatest Experiment. Um, Aidan is the man who's, who's building this. Anyway, they're building love farms. They've got one in the Philippines, they've got one in Pakistan, and together we're going to build one in the Himalaya where people who don't have much money, um, we teach them how to meditate and send love and they actually get paid to do that. So that's, um, some of the amplification stuff that we're doing. Um, yeah, I don't know. Does that answer your amplifier question?

Yeah, absolutely. It's just, uh, for me, I, It was a word, it's a word that I like anyway, but when I've— I remember when we first spoke and you were telling me about the Himalayas and a little bit of the story around there, I could feel that— I'm gonna just do— I could feel that when we spoke. So when you used the word amplification, it was like, yeah, I just need to jump, just jump on that and just unpack that a little bit more. So thank you.

Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. Yep.

Yeah, I've got A whole heap of questions still rattling, but I'm just trying to capture all of them. Is there anything that you would like to add that's been triggered through our conversation so far that we haven't touched on? I'll open the floor for you at the moment while I collect my thoughts for my next question.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look, I think one of the practices that is fundamental to improving your ability to communicate with yourself and with others. And fundamental to creating an inner peace is radical acceptance, radical acceptance of that which you can't control or change. Wow. So I'm not talking about the future. I'm not saying, well, I'm just going to accept that everything is the way it is, and therefore I'm feeling apathetic and I'm feeling that there's no point and I'm not going to try and make the world a better place. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about radical acceptance of that which you can't control or change. So therefore, everything in the past, right? Done. It happened. The good, the bad, the ugly, the pleasant, the unpleasant, right? All of it. Accepting that apparently it should have happened because it did. Okay. And also the, the past comes right up to this present moment.

Mm-hmm.

And the split second that just went by. So Sally, if you and I could take a freeze frame of time, if we could take a snapshot of time right now. Apparently everything is exactly the way it's supposed to be right now. Even the stuff that's not great that we wanna try and make better in the future, right now, it's the way it should be. That's reality tells us that, right? And we can argue with reality and say, no, but I shouldn't be like this. But you are. No, but I should be more like that person. But you're not. You can argue with reality until you're blue in the face, right? It's just not gonna change it, right? So this comes to a radical self-acceptance.

Yeah. Wow.

In this moment, right here, right now, I am exactly who I'm supposed to be. And in that acceptance piece, then I'm going to start to move to a complete love of who I am right now. And, and a part of who I am right now is someone who hopes to keep evolving and growing and improving and getting better at things. So I'll be a different version of me in 10 years. hopefully. But right now, I'm going to accept that I am exactly who I'm supposed to be, and I'm enough.

Mm-hmm.

I'm enough to be me. I shouldn't be more like him. I should just be me. And this, this is a practice. This isn't— you don't just kind of get this conceptually and go, oh yeah, I get it. This is me waking up every morning and as a part of my affirmation saying to myself, Jem, you're enough just the way you are. You're a good man. I love you. Now go out and do your best today. You know, that's— I do self-talk every morning. And because the reason I'm doing self-talk is because it's firing the neurons that wire together eventually and end up becoming a belief. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, I, I just feel to share that to listeners if they're thinking, well, where do I start? Start with yourself. Start by being kinder to yourself and start with a practice of, of self-acceptance and love.

Yeah, I could really— it was really interesting when you were going through and describing that, the feelings and the sensations that I was experiencing through the appreciation and the understanding as it related to me. I could feel the different waves of, of feelings and emotions. So yeah, thank you very, very much for sharing that. And we've talked, we've talked a lot around elements as it relates to— I'm going to use the term, that spiritual— spirit— spirituality and practice. Would you, would you like to expand on that aspect of things? Because for me, I'm— spirituality and the routines and those sorts of things, as we've talked about, is a practice. But what do you bring forward, and what other wisdoms do you want to share as it relates to that practical spirituality?

Yeah, for me, for me, spirituality, um, has to be practical. There has to be something I can do, implement, or experience in a, in a, you know, in a firsthand way. If it's just philosophical, if it's just conceptual, if it's just ideas that don't translate into improving my life, uh, you know, I find it interesting. I'm happy to sit down and have a conversation about some stuff philosophically, But then I'm really curious about what can I actually do to improve my experience of existence, right? And when I think about spirituality, if we simplify it and say, well, on the one hand, we've got ego, which is the sense that I, my sense of identity in separation from everything so that I'm separate from the outside world. You're you, I'm me, we're separate. This is a table, I'm a person, we're separate, right? That's an illusion.

Mm-hmm.

That's an illusion. Mm-hmm. The idea that you are separate from the universe of which you are a part is a complete illusion. The actual reality is that we are inseparably and intrinsically a part of the greater system. Mm-hmm. You know, when you and I are sitting in the same room together and someone brings in lunch and we can smell the, the, curry and rice they've brought in. The reason we can smell it is because particles of that food are being consumed by you already. You're breathing it in. We are actually consuming our environment all the time. So you and I are part of the same thing. You know, I find this fascinating as well. When women live together and they end up getting into their same lunar cycle together, yeah, what we know now how that happens, that actually happens because the females emitting whatever pheromones through their skin, actual particles are traveling through the air onto the other person's skin, and over time they're absorbing each other and they get into cycle with each other. We are connected, you know. And so if spirituality is the idea that we're all part of a, of a bigger energy field, if that we're all part of the universe, say, to keep it in simple terms, or call it God, or call it whatever you want, but we're all a part of a bigger thing and, and that we don't understand how it works, right? So we have this sense of, we have an experiential sense. So we might get into flow state.

Mm-hmm.

Or me and my partner, um, experience amazing telepathy together. Yes. Even when we're worlds apart, right? So we can experience these spiritual phenomena. We can't explain them, but we know that something's happening, right? So this is a sense of spirituality. So then for me, I'm I then say, okay, well, what can I do on a day-to-day basis to stay connected to the reality of spirituality? And so then we bring in mindfulness meditation, or then we bring in contemplation, then we bring in, um, you know, the, the, the act of presence in moments, or pausing. For example, I've created habits around pausing throughout the day. Mm-hmm. Um, and these to me are practical spiritual Yeah, yeah,

beautiful. Thank you. And there was another phrase that you've just said, and I love, was— read my notes— translates the elements, the things, elements, energies, actions that translate into impact or impacts. Because for me, everything that I see you do, everything that you do, do, have done, converse about, is all around Translating whatever's occurring into impacts. And what you've just expressed actually helps people realize all of the little impacts that they can have for themselves as it relates to what they're doing for their own spirituality.

Mm-hmm.

And I can see now, with you having said that, when you were talking about what you're doing with your retreats, how that collection is having those bigger impacts. So let's bring it back down to the, the individuals and how they can start I suppose, to make and translate those steps, those actions into, um, a different version of contribution and connection for themselves to understand the world differently? Just sort of where I'm going with that. I'll let you pick that up and drive that.

Yeah, yeah. Look, I, I, I think really, um, dedicating some time to contemplation about some of the bigger bigger aspects to life, you know. And when I say dedicating some time, let's keep it practical. Put some time in your calendar and say, do you know what, on Sunday afternoon I'm actually going to sit down between 2 and 3, and I'm going to sit down and I'm going to contemplate some of the things that I heard about on that, on that show with Sally and Jem. Like, who am I really? Really, who am I beneath the roles that I play? Yes, I'm so-and-so's husband or I'm a bus driver or I'm a tennis player, but beneath all of the roles, who am I? You know, spend some time in contemplation. Why am I here? You know.

Great question, isn't it? Big one. Yeah.

And what do I want to do to positively impact life around me? And that doesn't— you don't need to be driven to go and change the world. It might just be that you want to positively impact the lives of your kids. Yeah. But what can I do To positively impact life around me? Sit in contemplation of those 3 questions. Spend some time. Ask yourself, what are my core values? What are my core values? Because if I can aspire to live to my values each day, there's freedom in that. There's liberation in that. If you can create a life where you can live aligned to your values each day, you're free.

Yeah.

In so many ways.

Beautiful. Well, that was a great way to start to wind up the show. Thank you very, very, very much for that last little bit. That was very impactful. Um, in the last couple of minutes, um, how can people reach out and connect with you?

You can get all of my resources, and there's a lot of free resources through gemfuller.com. Um, if you're interested in Meeting on the Mountain in the Himalaya, that's meetingonthemountain.com.au. If you want to follow me, I'm, I'm most, um, generous with my sharings on Instagram, and I'm Gem Fuller on Instagram as well.

Yeah, beautiful. And any, um, final— I think I had another question. I've got lots of circles on lots of little pieces of paper. Um, no, I don't have any additional questions. Is there anything that you would like to finish off with as a— we'll call it a gem nag because we've always got Sally nags, a Gem nag or insight for the audience.

Yep, you made it. You made it. You are apparently supposed to be exactly where you are right now and exactly the version of yourself that you are right now. So I just want to congratulate you and acknowledge you. You made it.

Beautiful. Thank you very much, Gem, for everything that you've shared with us today, everything that you're doing globally with conscious leadership and all of the people that you're impacting. It's been an absolute pleasure to share time with you. Thank you very, very much.

You're welcome.

Beautiful. Thank you, everybody. We look forward to seeing you again on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Till then, you have a great week. Take care.

Remember, if you want to be sought after and sold out, as well as being known as the obvious expert in your industry, you need to speak with Sally, our host of Success Secrets Exposed. Sally is the founder of Monetize Your Content, a done-for-you content marketing agency that helps you be easy to buy. See you next week on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Tune in live every Tuesday at 7 PM Eastern time or Wednesday mornings in Australia on W4CY Radio and Talk For TV. For TV.