My personal journey through the trauma of narcissism

Good morning, good evening, and g'day to you all. Welcome to another episode of Success Secrets Exposed, where we have intimate conversations with today's thought leaders, changemakers, and disruptors to bring you tools, strategies, and very insightful perspectives on both personal and business growth, to reveal the humanness of both success and challenge. My name's Sally A. Curtis from Monetize Your Content. We're a done-for-you agency that works with brilliant individuals to help them monetize their content. We're best known for turning books into 2 years' worth of dynamic social media posts to help you save time, maximize your assets, and become the obvious expert sought after and sold out with a lasting legacy. Now I've got a really exciting topic for you today. We're going to be talking about a personal journey through the trauma of narcissism, and I have a very, very special guest for you today as well. So let me just share a little bit about Madison Frederickson. Frederick with you. She's a number one international bestselling author, bestselling author also in four countries and in 57 categories. She's a speaker, a certified master coach, a spiritual counselor, and an EFT practitioner. As a trauma survivor, she recognizes the vital need to release past negative beliefs, emotions, and fears, so we can all live an extraordinary life of freedom instead of. stress, anxiety, doubt, and self-sabotage. And she has adapted these— her personal lessons that she's learned through her own life so she can help now others transform their lives. Now, she believes in giving back to her community and has served in local organizations for decades. She served on the board of the Divorce Cafe, is a member of SheHeroes United, which is a nonprofit organization that helps women overcome trauma. And her particular forte is working with incarcerated women who are improving their lives and now choose to leave as victors and leaders instead of victims. So please help me welcome to the show Madison Frederickson. Good evening.

Thank you so much, Sally, for that interview. I don't even know if you're talking about me, but yeah,

absolutely. It's been so exciting watching your journey, especially releasing a book and having such a great success so fast with your book, because I know it hit international best-selling in, you know, a few short hours, and you've got all those 57 countries. So obviously it's a topic that's of need and is a topic of curiosity for lots of people, which is exciting.

Yes.

Yeah. So tell us a little bit of your backstory as a bit of a prelude to the book.

Well, my dad was a narcissist, and I wasn't aware of that, girl, all the time I was growing up. I knew he was controlling and has, um, I never could be right or wrong and those kinds of things. But it wasn't until after I received an email from my son about 15 years ago, um, accusing me of being a narcissist that I really started doing a deep dive into the subject. And I learned so much, not only about myself, but about narcissism. in itself. And it was at that time that I realized my dad was a narcissist. So, um, in order to— I'd already started writing the book, um, and that was kind of a come-lately kind of, um, realization.

Mm-hmm.

But it really, um, gave me the opportunity to tie the threads all together and have it be a culmination of, um, a lot of healing for myself. That even was intensified after that email was sent to me. And I'm forever grateful for that email.

Yeah, I can imagine at the time it sort of was a bit, I'm going to say disturbing, or it really would have touched you in a very deep and profound way. Yeah,

absolutely. Rug was pulled out from underneath me emotionally. So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's where, when you talk about, you know, the need to understand your own emotions and forgive and all those sorts of things, was that Where did the journey start for you as it related from there? Once you've done the deep dive into understanding what narcissism is, and that could be something to explain to the audience as well.

Well, I think— excuse me.

We just caught that off each other, didn't we? Because I just started to cough too.

I'm sorry. My journey actually started in the rooms of Al-Anon. what, 35 years ago or so is when I really started learning that I needed to take a look at me. And I started learning about some of my behaviors that I incorporated with my— when raising my children. I didn't understand any of that at the time and how it really all ties in with the narcissism, because all of those behaviors, the, the, um, Um, for heaven's sakes, the codependency, the enabling, all of those things that I learned, um, as a defense mechanism, which is what we do when we're in a relationship that is narcissistic or very controlling.

Mm-hmm.

Now, I don't pertain— I don't profess that everybody that is controlling isn't necessarily a narcissist.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I think I believe that we all have a little bit of narcissistic tendencies. To begin with, but that doesn't mean that we're a narcissist. Um, and so, in— to answer your question, the book was written, and it— I didn't write the book starting with chapter 1, do 2, 3, 4, 5. It was not in chronological order at all when I wrote the book, as the same as my healing journey didn't come in chronological order either.

That

would be— Yeah. So, I really liken my healing through my writing journey and my healing through my life, life really are perpendicular to each other. And one really dovetails real nicely into the other. There's no separation today now with what I've learned after writing the book. So it's a process, just like anytime you do work on yourself, you're thinking, oh, I've worked on this issue of abandonment. And then all of a sudden it pops up over here and you get to look at it again. And it also sometimes brings awareness to other areas that you think that you've worked on because, you know, healing has to come in layers. Yeah. You don't, you don't get better overnight because you're learning and you're growing and And I really, um, that's what keeps my boat floating is continually learning and discovering new things about myself and discovering ways that I can help other people.

Yeah. I think you've touched on that. Uh, that's, um, the element where we, for those that are doing a lot of growth or those that are on their discovery journey of growth, you go, woohoo, I've worked on that. That's done. And then it just goes, yeah, we're back again. It's like, not this lesson again. Um, but is it That is the journey. And I think for me, learning to have the fun with that and go, okay, okay, I haven't quite learned that bit yet, is in itself, you know, part of the journey is understanding that whatever we're dealing with or unpacking or discovering or coming to terms with or whatnot is always continually bubbling up, effervescing, if you will, in different ways and at different stages and at different times. Sometimes the time that We, you know, it suits us and it fits in with our schedule. And other times it's just there and it's like, I'm not ready for this yet. I don't need this right now. Um, but that is very much a personal development, uh, journey and part of growth.

Well, I think, um, healing is kind of like, um, how when you have a baby, they, they smile and then they do these other things. They learn to roll over, they learn to sit up, then they learn to Crawl and so on. And that's the same way, you know, it's layered learning. They're not capable of standing up right out of the womb. And that's the same with our healing. You know, you have to heal from the inside out. And sometimes the only thing you can do is look at the top layer first.

Yeah.

And then just, you know, discover what's more under— what's underneath it further.

Yep. As Shrek would say, peel, peel back those onion, onion layers. Yeah. I always remembered that, which was good. And I think that's part of the, is, is actually part of the, the initial learning for those that are, um, you know, want to do stuff fast and get, get stuff over and done with and keep moving through life being a control freak like I am. Uh, you know, you sort of, you want to, you, you just go, woohoo, let's just get that all unwrapped. But that's That's not really healing. It's got to be done, as you said, in those layers. You can't rush it.

Yeah.

You've just got to have a sense of humor with it and just work with the flow. So when you're working with people, and I know you work with lots of different people and you've got lots of modalities in your toolbox, obviously significant ones from your own experience, what are some of the common I suppose traps for beginners, if we call it that way, when they're starting their journey? So that if they're like me and they're starting their journey and they're trying to rush through things to get to the end, what are some of the other common things that you could highlight that would help minimize those tripping up moments as it relates to this healing journey?

Well, one of the things that I like to tell people, years ago when I was in workshop, a live workshop that John Bradshaw did, and he's of fame of the family carousel and the inner child work. And one of the things that he said— now, he was a recovering alcoholic, so he was very familiar with the 12 steps, obviously, and all, and how that all unfolds.

Mm-hmm.

And one of the things that he said was that you can always tell when somebody's new on their journey because you can go into their their library and you see all of these self-help books, none of which have been read. And I think, yes, I think, you know, that's what happens to us. We, oh, that's really— I need to learn that, I need to learn this, and we get a little bit overwhelmed. And then when we actually start doing the work,

yes,

then, and you can start, um, looking at those things and seeing where it really fits for you. When I first started going to Al-Anon My first husband was a practicing alcoholic. He's passed now, but he was an alcoholic, um, had blackouts. Um, and after we got divorced and someone suggested that I go to Al-Anon, I'm thinking, why do I have to do that? I'm not the drinker. You know, it's not my stuff, it's his, right?

Yeah.

Well, I get in there and the, the very first meeting I went to, there was a gentleman up there sharing his story, which often is the format of an AA meeting, an open AA meeting. And he started telling a story. And I'm thinking, what? I'm identifying with everything that this guy's talking about. And I know I'm not an alcoholic. So what the heck? So continuing in more meetings, I realized that I had to take responsibility for myself, and that I did have a piece in that.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's true with any of the behaviors or any of the expectations we have for relationships, all of those things, we all have, we have a stake in that, you know, and it's, we're influenced by the outside world, by things that we've been taught, things that we've been told, either by other people or by ourselves. Yes. You know, the limiting beliefs. I'm not good enough. I'm not this, that, or the other enough. And, you know, the, the world that influences us all with all of those things, you know, you're influenced with your perspective by what you've gone through, same as I have. And this conversation that we're having right now is influenced by stuff out here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Very much so.

And so I think, you know, having said all of that, I think the important thing to remember Is that you don't get into the state of mind that you're in right now overnight.

No.

And it's important to try and back the bus up a little bit and be patient with yourself and, you know, take it one piece at a time.

Yeah.

And I know that's really difficult for a lot of people, moi included. But, you know, that's probably The best tool that I learned was to give myself, cut myself some slack.

I think that was one of the, one of the words in my notes that I'm just looking at here is, yes, it is the biggest group of words in my whole notes, which was be kind to yourself. And I know when we're, when you're, you know, you've, you've, you're on this journey and you get excited about the transformations that you're doing and you, you're moving through. we, we start to be kinder to other people and having a fresher perspective and a broader perspective.

Yeah.

But in my own experience, as I was doing that, I found that I was narrowing my— the gentleness and the perspective as it related to me, because I was becoming— I became a little bit more brutal on myself. So that was why, obviously, as you said, relating to what we've had, I've had all of these experiences, which is why in my notes You know, that's the biggest word because that was a thing that I didn't do for myself that I really had to learn. And I think there's, there's those, there is those common trip-ups where we, we get excited about forgiving and, you know, growing and helping other people, but we, we project it outwardly. Is that something that you see as commonalities with that, with that not being kind to yourself? And then that sort of increases That, uh, that self-sabotage scenario. So there's a little bit of a sort of a swing and a roundabout where that keeps cropping up.

It is. It is. And, you know, sometimes people— I've worked with people that come to me, um, wanting to work on a specific issue. And I, most of the time, I'll do a session of EFT tapping, which is Emotional Freedom Technique. And I— we do— the way I, I do things is I do kind of like a little interview, if you will, and To see where they're at. And, and what I listen to the words very carefully of what they're saying, because there's a lot that there isn't being said. And 9 times out of 10, um, when we finish the whole, um, session, they'll look at me and almost dumbfounded at times, and they'll say, I had no idea I was even gonna tell you that.

Yeah.

Because it was at the root of, of what was that they really needed to work on. And I think as we discover things about ourselves, we can identify the root things a little easier each time we work on something, even if it's a different area. You know, you may be working on abandonment issues, and then something comes up and you realize, oh gee, I really should have said this differently or handled that behavior differently. Mm-hmm. And it had nothing to do with abandonment. So, you know, everything's all connected. Yes.

Yeah. And that level of self-awareness of when you, when you start to learn to catch yourself doing some of the bad, the other types of habits and you're moving things forward. Yeah, you sort of have that. There is that dance and things through there that we, that we, I'm going to say I need to learn to enjoy. We just put it like that. Sorry, go ahead. You just had a thought.

I was just going to say, I think it's important to Um, try and see the humor in things. And so, and to laugh at myself, it was important. You know, I look at my weight loss journey and some of the things that I did is like, holy cow, I had gone to Weight Watchers and got— become a lifetime member. And, um, I, at the time, you needed to lose 10 pounds in order to get back on Weight Watchers. Well, I was like 3.5 pounds over my goal.

Mm-hmm.

And so what did I do? Total sense to me at the time is I ate a whole bunch of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and milkshakes and all that kind of stuff so I could put the— be 10 pounds over so I could go back to Weight Watchers. But the truth of the matter is it wasn't so much about the Weight Watchers as it was the camaraderie that I was seeking.

Yeah.

And the acceptance within another group. That's what I really wanted. So But, you know, I look back on it now and I just have to laugh at myself.

But isn't that interesting? I could see— I have that story that you've shared. I can sort of— I've gone, oh yeah, I've done similar things to that because I— because as you said, you're sort of looking for that, that group, that camaraderie, or that, that acceptance, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. I think trauma— when, as trauma survivors, That's the bottom line. We want to be accepted and loved. And, you know, we did all of it. We got involved with people, um, sometimes by choice, and then it didn't work out so good, and you realize what kind of a situation you're in. Um, and sometimes, you know, you're in relationships with a narcissist that you're related to, and you can't, um, unbecome a niece. You're, you're stuck with it. But the best thing to do is to be able to learn how to navigate those waters.

Yeah, yeah. And is there a— as we're sort of shining the light on there, is there steps or processes or tips that you can help with that navigation? Can you walk us through some of that?

I can only share what happened with me, and that is that after I received the email accusation, wanted to do a deep dive and look into narcissism. And I actually asked a therapist, am I a narcissist? And she looked at me and kind of chuckled a little bit, and she said, Madison, if you were a narcissist, you wouldn't be asking me that. So then, and, and, and, you know, that was good information. However, it left me kind of thinking, well, okay, so now what? You know, I'm still estranged from my son, so What did I do? So I had to take a deep dive and look at my behaviors that pointed to him that I am a narcissist. And probably the biggest lesson takeaway that I've learned out of anything that I've learned in later years as I wrote my book is how I used to justify every single solitary thing I did or said.

Mm-hmm.

I couldn't back down. I couldn't say I was wrong. Um, it just wasn't in my DNA, so to speak. My dad could never say he was wrong. It was always, you misunderstood, or I didn't mean it that way, or I didn't say that.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and so I learned that, that skill very, very well.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think for people that are starting to look at their journey, whatever the issue might be, Because not everybody that has been abandoned has had a narcissist in their life. Not everybody that's had sexual abuse has, um, been estranged. I mean, there, there are all kinds of different things, and they interconnect somewhat because, like we said earlier, it's all about us wanting to feel connection and camaraderie with people.

Yes.

We all want to be loved. We all want to be accepted. And whatever road you take to get there, even with the misbehaving and all of those kinds of things, when we can take a look at that, gee, when I said so-and-so, you know, whatever accusation that we're calling them or name we're calling them, even if it's just inside our head, those things all affect ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah, that's such a great— sorry, I'm just catching lots and lots of thoughts there. That whole justification, oh, I didn't mean it like that, or I didn't say it like that. I think for all of us, we've all had— we've all probably said or had moments where we've been like that. So I think that's such a great add to what you said earlier, that we've all had elements or periods of being narcissistic in our lives as well. So that was a really great demonstration that we've all got that little brush, that we've all been brushed with that little brush. And then depending on how we continue on with our lives, you know, it's been flicked off to the side or softened or whatever the wording is around there, which has been, yeah, such a great, a great tip and insight there. So from a forgiveness perspective, so we've sort of, we've talked about the, you know, the trauma. What's the, what do you, from the work that you do, because you, again, you do such a large breadth of work, with individuals, with groups, and then these incarcerated women, etc. Is there a process of forgiveness, or is there some commonalities that you see people go through when they're going through their forgiveness journey? And again, I would understand that that's different in length and time and all the rest of it as well.

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah, there is some commonalities. It's kind of like the 5 stages of grief. You know, we get angry, we are in denial, we point fingers. All of these behaviors that we do, I think, is typical of the patterns that we go through when we're on our healing journey.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and Elisabeth Kübler-Ross was actually— it was her definition of grief that she came up with, the 5 stages of grief, which I do write about it in the book. But I think any behavior that we have, that once we realize it, even if we understand that it's not a great one, and that we want to shift all of that, you're still having to let go of part of who you were.

Mm-hmm.

You have to grieve that. And, and it's Easy for me to say now, but it wasn't so easy going through it.

You

know, it's like you mentioned that we kind of had all of this dusting of narcissism a little bit. Well, I kind of like to look at it now that it's kind of like pixie dust. Yes. It kind of can twinkle and, gee, I didn't know, I wasn't aware of that. And so how can I take that, the pixie dust, and, you know, spread it across to people that I work with to give themselves a break and not discount them and make— say, well, the pain that you went through isn't valid, because it certainly is.

You

know, you go through crap and you're valid to feel the way you are. It's valid to feel angry and all of those kinds of things.

Mm-hmm.

But if we can look at it or try and look at it when we're going through the process as we go through those layers, And see if there's any— anything that you can laugh at yourself about, you know. Um, it helps lighten the load, I think.

Yes. Yeah. And that— I've really resonated with that word validation, and not, not the external validation, but the internal validation and being okay with whatever's bubbling up. And, uh, and again, being kind to yourself in that process and treating it as that pixie dust, that validation. I'm going to— another— would you say validation and acceptance are similar words? What's your thoughts on that? 2 words just came.

I think validation is a precursor to acceptance.

Nice.

And in a lot of ways, because You know, when I was going through my stuff, I felt very validated that I did the behaviors that I did. Like when I went to Al-Anon the first time, I felt validated at my anger of why I had to go in the first place.

It wasn't my fault. Yes.

And then came the acceptance is, oh wow, you know, there's things here that have not been so grand.

Yeah.

You know, and then you get into the The woulda, shoulda, couldas. And I think it's important to try and take a look at those for what they are as well. You know, yeah, you could have done this, but if you hadn't done whatever this is, it wouldn't bring you to who you are today.

Yeah.

You know, if I hadn't done my first husband's GED courses and all of those things, I wouldn't have the lesson, the big lesson that I can now see of when I started looking at enabling. That was one of the first things that I looked at. And then I started looking at the other ways that I was enabling other people that maybe were a softer way of enabling. But, you know, there's a fine line between helping and enabling. And so it gave me the opportunity to kind of look and see Where I thought that I was helping, when in actuality I was really enabling. So it gave me the opportunity to kind of pull those apart a little bit.

And having that insight and then the opportunity to— I'm going to use one of my words, which is unpack or unravel. Without that insight, you don't have the opportunity to unpack or explore or discover, do you?

No, no, you don't. You don't. You know, it's like, um, with my birth mom and even with my dad too, it took me a long time to forgive both of them. My, my birth mom left when I was 3 and, um, she abandoned me. And for years, you know, I kept— I just wanted that relationship with a mother so bad and intensely. And it was— it took a process for me to forgive her. You know, I, um, when she came back into my life at age 18, I was grateful that she was there because it's like, okay, she's here. And so I just stuffed down all of my disappointment and anger at her for leaving me in the first place.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I allowed myself to be okay with it when in reality I wasn't okay with it.

Yeah.

At all. And when I finally unpacked that, your words, I realized that I needed to fess up to and be authentic to myself and her and say, this is what really— how I'm really feeling, and it's not okay with me.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then the forgiveness came actually after she had passed and I had done some more work on, on the abandonment issues, was I, um, and I, I found out where she was buried. Um, she's been gone about 20 years or something now. I don't know. Anyway, I found out where she had been buried and, um, went up to the cemetery, and I did a little ceremony there and buried something that we both really liked, a gift that she had given me, actually. I buried it there by her tombstone, and it was at that very instant I was able to let go and completely forgive her.

Yeah. Yeah. And that process, um, which is very deep and very personal, do you find that, um, people start that process and they start, they start that unpacking or, you know, discovery, and then there's a— I'm going to call it a fear— there's a fear that sets in that sort of stops them or pauses them?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Because when I first started admitting to myself that I was angry,

Great.

I still— she was in and out of my life for, for 5 times, and on about time number 4, I had been thinking like from time 2, I really should tell her, but I was scared because I was afraid she was going to leave again.

Yeah.

But as time went on and more things happened, I was finally able to uncork the steam a little bit.

Oh, nice.

And, and, you know, admit to myself I really should talk to her, but I'm Scared to talk to her. So I did that I should, but I'm scared for years.

Yeah.

Before I finally got the guts up to take care of me and tell her what I felt and thought.

Yeah. And do you find that that sort of is a— is an area that you work with a lot of people to sort of help move them through that little bit of where they get sort of get stuck in that place? They, as you sort of said, you— they, uh, they desire the change and they want to make that choice, but they hit some pause point where they've just— yeah,

yeah. Fear is a huge thing, you know, fear of rejection, fear of, of, um, being an outcast. That's very, very real for, you know, most people, myself included. You know, I don't like to go to someplace and, and somebody says something cruel to me because then, you know, I take it personal and And those kinds of things. But I've gotten to the point now where I'm— knock on wood— most of the time I'm able to pull back from that and say, wait a minute, that's not my stuff. It's— they own that. And, you know, I look and say, well, is there validity in what they're saying? And if there's not, then I just— okay, it's just, you know, it's just where they're at. So,

yeah. So can I ask— I'm just sort of going to dig into that, the fear thing as well, because I think that this journey And there's so many people having the enlightenment or they're starting their journey of wanting to have that self-discovery. And we've all— we all get stuck in those pause points. But I imagine the work that you do with the incarcerated women where they're, you know, they're in— they've been incarcerated. So there's all the stuff and the stories and the validation, if you will, of, you know, that they're in that scenario. They would have We all have fear, but I imagine that their tipping point or that bridge to get from that spot of, you know, being victorious on the other side and coming out victorious and as a leader would be quite deep work for a lot of them. And is there anything you could share with us that's part of the work that you do with them as examples?

Well, I think one thing that's important is, I don't know how familiar the listeners are to what it's like to actually be incarcerated. Um, there's— they have their own little families, they have cliques, um, they're in their, their group, so to speak. There's a father, a mother, a cousin, and, and it's their way of belonging to something.

I think, yeah.

And even though they all have obviously the, the commonality that they're, um, convicted felons and they're there, but if they're like— if they come to our class, they're wanting to do something different.

Yeah.

And if they've got the support with the other inmates that are there in the same class, it gives them a little bit of, of safety net, so to speak. And so I think when, when we're going through and with the fear stuff comes up, I think if we've built in, um, or it's important to find people, um, groups, support groups, or, you know, different types of groups that you can feel A camaraderie with them so that you don't feel like you're alone.

Yes. Yeah.

Stories may be different, but if you have somebody that is in their— your corner, then it's a lot easier.

Yeah.

And I like to be that corner for people that are— I'm working with because everybody has the right and deserve to work through their stuff.

Yeah.

There's Nobody that has done anything that I would say, you know, it's not okay for you to be okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, we're a world of hurting people.

Yeah. And I think you've absolutely touched on what feels and resonates with me is that, that as long as somebody's on their journey, they've chosen the journey, as you said, with the women that you work with, and they've got that support and feel safe. Versus when we're going through stuff— well, it's not we— when I've gone through stuff and I've gone, let me— I'm just going to go and hide in my corner and just be isolated because that feels good to me. That's called escapism. Just— we'll hit— we'll just acknowledge that. But when you, when you choose to do that, when you choose to do it in isolation or on your own, it's at— yes, you might need periods when there's quiet, when there's quietness, and to do some work. deeper work with yourself. But as you said, having the people to share that story with, or, you know, what you're going through, and that support and that safety, is, is in itself the key to unlocking the progression, really, isn't it?

It is. It is. Yeah. And some people, you see television and movies where the guy or the girl is very hard and they don't want to cooperate with anybody, and they're just rebellious and all of that kind of stuff. But deep down underneath all of their, their blood runs just the same as anybody else's. They put their pants on the same way anybody else does. And there is that commonality.

You

know, sometimes it just takes someone to give them a break and to give them the opportunity to voice who they are.

Yeah.

And that probably comes in pieces and stages. When I work with people, it usually takes several sessions before they can get to where they feel like they can move on past that, whatever it is.

And I'm going to pick up on a couple of things and then just circle back. I think as you've expressed that with people's pieces and stages is different, to me, I'm going to use the word sounds messy. When I've worked on it, it's been messy. And when you started to talk about your journey with your book, that you didn't do chapter 1, chapter 2, you didn't do it chronologically, it sounds as though that process of book writing was in itself messy because it— well, not messy, but it was— it was, yeah, okay, it was messy. Yeah. It got structured to it. So I think that is also something very valid to acknowledge is that it is okay for this process, whatever process you're going through, for it to be, to be messy because there's, there's, there's progress in messy versus perfection. Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and the messiness, you know, you, you sweep a little, little of it away at a time.

Yeah.

And the end product, the end product of the book, I'm very, very proud of. Um, it is, um, a little bit out of chronological order just because of the, the, each chapter is pretty much a standalone topic.

Yes.

Um, there are a couple of them that, that kind of go hand in hand. Uh, but most of them are standalone.

Yeah.

But the order that I learned, uh, in the order in which I learned all of that stuff led me to look at other areas and then I could write about that. Uh, you know, just kind of dovetail. You know, a lot of people, um, edit a couple, 2, 3 times. Yeah, I probably edited myself before I even gave it to the editor a good 100 times at least. Yeah, before I even got to the editing process. So, but that's the growth.

Yeah, I was just going to say, so that, um, that was the growth and obviously the journey and the, the awakening that you had through the process of writing your book and bringing it all together and giving it giving it life, that it can help give life and create change for other people. Is there anything you want to share about that journey of the book writing and the awakenings that you've had?

Oh God. You know, I think because each topic, each chapter is its own topic, They kind of— I can approach each one of those topics a little bit differently because I learned different things, different, um, uh, way to approach each topic. So like, and that kind of sounds like I'm talking in circles. No. So like in the, in the chapter about my sexual abuse, um, it— the chapter itself, um, takes— talks about a section of my life from the age of 10 to 50. Now, obviously, came in there on the way, but it really anchored me tight to my own misery for over 50 years.

Mm-hmm.

And when I was writing about the abandonment, you know, that always— it's— I don't know if people understand what fascia is. It's that fascia is the— it's actually an organ they're discovering now. But it's something that all of our organs and bones and muscles are all attached to. And as we go through life, quite often the fascia kind of layers on top of each other. And so to have— and it can actually restrict the movement of bones. So when the fascia is released, the bones can move a little bit more. And so my fascia was, um, precipitated by my sexual abuse probably was the first thing that happened. Because it was after that— I mean, the abandonment happened— my first abandonment happened when I was 3.

Mm-hmm.

But the major biggie thing happened when I was 10.

Mm-hmm.

And that set the whole stage for the rest of my life.

Mm-hmm.

And so, as I've written the book, one layer of fascia at a time, And rearranging it to now where my bones can move and work properly. That's kind of how the book was written.

Yeah, yeah.

If that makes any sense.

Yeah, that does. And with that, with those, those changes and those growths, and I know you've— when we spoke earlier on, you talked about a lot of the really great feedback for the, for the book. So obviously the book, the way it's been written, the stories, your journey, as well as your tools and tips that you've had within the book, providing that legacy, that information, and helping people work through that. What are some of your favorite, I suppose, comments or feedback that you've had to date from the book being released?

A couple of them come to mind. One of them is a friend of mine. I asked if she would read the book, and not as a reviewer, but I just said, will you read it and let me know what you think? And there was still some editing and stuff that needed to be done, but not a lot at that point. But she took the book and she contacted me, me, and, um, she read 3 chapters and she said, Madison, I can't read this book. It just triggered me so much. I can't, I, I'm sorry, I can't read it.

Mm-hmm.

Well, unbeknownst to me, the triggers that she was, the things that she was triggered by. She took those events that, that were her triggers and did some more work on them. And it was— she did a process that she and I both know how to do. And then she circled back with me and said she was grateful for the book because if she hadn't been triggered, she wouldn't have done the work.

Mm-hmm.

And she wouldn't have been able to go back through and finish the book. And have the results that she has today.

Yeah.

So I didn't know she was rereading it or had done any of that until she was— it was all said and done.

Yeah. How beautiful.

So, you know, another one is a person said she doesn't have any of the events that I write about in my book. She doesn't have any of that stuff as far as, you know, traumas. But she said that after she read the chapter about my son and the estrangement, realized, and when I said that I had justified everything, she realized that she had been trying to control a particular situation, an event with her son. And they were going to a big family function, and she doesn't get to see him all that often. They live many miles apart. So she gets to this function, and she pulled her son aside and said. I'd like to talk to you for a minute, and I need to give you an apology because I've been trying to control this situation and this event, and it's not mine to control. Mmm. So I'm sorry. So, you know, there's— I have a lot of stories like that, and my hope is that the book will have a ripple effect. And, you know, people, when they read the book, they'll be so moved by it that they'll want to share it with other people. One woman told me that she was buying 5 copies for her friends and giving them to her. Um, you know, those kinds of things. And I know, I know for a fact that there's, um, several people that have told me that they're going to be purchasing the book for Christmas presents.

Yeah, lovely. That's awesome. Sorry, sorry, I'll let you finish.

No, that's all I was going to say.

Yeah, beautiful. So what I'm hearing from there, um, and having worked with the book, it's a book— yes, it's your story, um, yes, it's your personal journey, but there's lots of tools, there's lots, lots of insights in there. And it really is an opportunity for people to have a read, explore possible transformations, explore the things that they not They're not seeing or hearing of themselves and of others and being able to sort of work through whatever's needing to work, wanting and choosing to work through. So it really has become, as you said, that gift to people that people are seeing and feeling the gift within that book to the point that they're now wanting to gift it forward. So I think that's beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel so honored because I don't think, I don't believe that I went through all of those things and all of the things that I write about, I went through every single solitary one of them.

And

like you said, it's my, my experiences, strength, and hope. And after each chapter, there are tools and suggestions of things that you can do for that particular issue.

Yeah.

But, um, I, I think I was led to, to go through all of these things by what I like to call my higher power, not so I could pain— be in pain and suffer. That was not the objective. The objective was to go through all of these things so that— so I could then write about them and then share those with other people so they don't have to go as many years as I had to go through to get through to the other side.

Yeah, beautiful. It's definitely become, um, from the way it was picked up when it was first launched to the stories that you've been sharing with us, it's really become that gift for everybody at any any time. So, um, yeah, well done on, uh, going— writing the book for everybody and, uh, the success that it's had so far, which is very, very exciting. Can you share with us a little bit the best way for the audience to get in contact with you? At the moment, we do have your website going across the ticker. Um, what would you like— or how would you like to invite people to connect with you best, Madison?

Um, the best thing to do would be to, to log on to my website, and there are Several places where you can subscribe to my email, subscribe to the website, and you can even schedule a call. And I do a free 30-minute discovery call to see if that's something that I can help you with. I will be offering individual and group coachings. I'm finishing up a course right now that I'm putting together. Um, so really the best way is through my website.

Yeah, fantastic.

And there is, there is a phone number there. You can leave me a voicemail, um, and I'll, you know, we'll get back to you.

Yeah, beautiful. And can I ask you, as we sort of close out, because we got to the end of the show very quickly, which I knew we would do, what's your favorite quote that you would like to share with the audience?

It's, uh, actually in the first part of my book. And it says, the beacon of a lighthouse guides sailors safely to shore. My hope is that this book can serve as your guiding light, helping you find your way home, home to your true self. And I think, well, that, that pretty much says my hope. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I hope people will look at this book and understand that it isn't, it isn't necessarily an easy read.

Mm-hmm.

But if you're triggered by these things, but I do invite you to read through it and then possibly reread through it because like I said earlier, we heal in layers.

Mm-hmm.

And we learn things in layers. So, um, you know, and the teacher shows up when the student's ready. Right. And I think the book can be structured in your life such similar to that in that you learn one thing and you go back and you You see something that you didn't see the first time through.

Yeah, yeah. And I think, um, that's such a— the great opportunity of why it's become such a gift for, uh, the, the world, so to speak, um, is that you read it, uh, and then you have, uh, you learn something, and then you come back and you sort of read exactly the same page again, and you saw, I don't remember that being there before. It's— and that's because we've had that growth. And that to me is why Such a great gift. Yeah,

exactly.

Well, Madison, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on board today and sharing your wisdom with us. Thank you so very, very much. I wish you all of the continued success with the book. And for those people that want to find out more about the book, you can obviously jump onto Madison's website, which is madisonfrederick.com. You'll be able to look for— find the book there. Madison's blogs are very insightful and will certainly help you, lead you on a journey. And of course, you can reach out to Madison at any time for any type of support that you're looking for. Again, Madison, thank you very, very much for sharing so much with us today. It's been an absolute—

I did want to mention that right now it's available ebook, softcover, hardcover. I'm real excited that the Audible Should be released within a few weeks, so I'm real excited about that.

Yeah, brilliant. Oh yeah, you, you will see that across your social media posts for sure. So that's—

oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Again, thank you very, very much, um, Madison. It's been an absolute pleasure. You've got the details. We'll have the details of Madison's websites up on our social media, um, and the places that you can watch and rewatch and share this episode. So thank you again, Madison, and we will look forward to seeing you again next time on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Till then, see you later.

Thank you.

Thank you.