Savvy, Seasoned & Successful - the rise of the Encore Entrepreneur

Secrets Exposed. Here at Success Secrets Exposed, we have intimate conversations with today's thought leaders, changemakers, and disruptors, all designed to give you— bring tools, strategies, and insightful perspectives about personal growth and business growth, designed to reveal the humanness of both success and challenge. Now, as I said, I'm Sally A. Curtis, content repurposing whiz. We work with brilliant individuals, helping them turn their content into engaging visual brand assets. What we're best known for is turning books into 2 years' worth of social media posts with our done-for-you service that helps to amplify your impact because you stand out, you connect, your message is heard, and you get to reach more people with ease. But more importantly, today we're going to be talking about the rise of the encore on entrepreneur. Savvy, Seasoned, and Successful with Simone de Haas. So Simone is an international speaker, founder, and CEO of the Seasoned Voices Network. She speaks on the theater of leadership, conscious communication, and storytelling. So without any further ado, please welcome to the stage Simone de Haas.

Well, good morning, good evening, and hello everyone. And so lovely to be here speaking with you again, Sally.

Thank you. I absolutely love having you on the show. I know we get into such intricate, deep conversations that are very meaningful. So I know we'll zoom through our time together very, very quickly. But thank you for joining me. And I know this is such a passionate topic that we both are, well, almost kindred spirits on around. So I'd love for you to share with the audience a little bit about your backstory so they got a little bit of context, and then we'll dive in.

Okay, so a bit about the backstory. I suppose the most relevant, pertinent pieces of it are the fact that I worked in theatre for a very long time. It was essentially a port for essentially had a portfolio career, I guess, where I've had one foot very firmly and happily in the world of the theatre, but at the same time I also worked the corporate scene doing essentially things like being a personal assistant, events manager, admin manager, that kind of thing. But I've always had this really, really strong connection to theatre, and ultimately it was, I suppose, what's informed my career trajectory, my business trajectory. I started my own business, or I started my own theatre company with my husband in 1994. And, you know, you don't know what you don't know at that stage. I was in my early— I think my mid-30s at that point. And we started the theatre company, which we actually ran as an independent company for about 30— 25 years. And we only closed that down around 2015. And then in— so that was a big chunk of my work, was producing, directing, creating theatre for essentially around comedy and things like that. So we produced our own theatre as an independent theatre company here in Brisbane. And then in 2009, by then I'd actually Actually, 2009, I'd done various careers, as I said, you know, both in theater and in the corporate space. And I was made redundant again. I think I'd been made redundant about 3 times. The 3rd time, I thought to myself, there's something going on here. Maybe this is a call. Maybe this is a sign from the universe. Don't we all get those? You know, that sign is like, wake up.

Yeah, absolutely.

And at that point I thought, you know, one of the things that I've always done as a theater director is coaching people for performance. And I thought, well, what if I transfer that skill into more of a corporate space? Still coaching people for performance, but for personal transformation and their personal development as well. Mm-hmm. And so I migrated into that and I did some study and got my qualifications in coaching and mentoring. And so that was then my, my second business, if you like. Now, by then I was in my early 50s. And that is significant in terms of our topic today. Mm-hmm. Because so many women do find they get to that, that kind of milestone, that significant milestone, and go, there's got to be more to what I'm doing. I've got to be able to create more of an impact. And that was a bit of a wake-up call. call for me, but more of a call to adventure rather than—

Yes.

Wake up, you know, what are you doing with your life? It wasn't that kind of— although there was a little bit of that, but it's more of that call to adventure. What can I do, um, to create bigger impact? And so still using my theater techniques, I developed the coaching and mentoring business. And then in 2011, I then stepped onto the stage again, but in a different way, as a professional speaker.

Speaker.

And, and I'd been working with someone who had said, look, Simone, you've done all of this, and this is your background. You've got so much from your theater and from the coaching and from everything that you've done in that space. There's so much that you could share with an audience around stagecraft and storytelling and working with professional speakers. Again, the coaching and mentoring kind of everything started to just come together. So all of the threads that had been woven into the early part of my career suddenly started to form a different kind of tapestry.

Yes.

One that involved my using all of my gifts, not saying, oh, well, this is what I did then, so I can't do it anymore. Yeah. Recognizing that there were so many different aspects of myself that were helpful, that were useful, and that could create an impact for the people I wanted to work with. And of course, one of the best ways to do— rather than doing one-to-one, which is the coaching and mentoring, I really wanted to do one-to-many. I wanted that impact. And the global stage was where I decided that that was where I actually wanted to do

it.

Yeah. So that's a very Reasonably short.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And I think that gives people context because there's— I listened to that and know obviously the story and we've crossed paths through the professional speaking arena and stuff as well. But that call that comes, and I love how you phrased it, that call to adventure. For me, it was like I'd suddenly grown up and I'd found my spot. Like this was This is it. You know, I finally found it. But it's interesting. And I always love how the universe has got that sense of humor, how we can then almost have the gift of retrospectively looking back and we can actually see how those threads all join to create that, create that tapestry. So I really, really love that. And isn't it interesting when we have the ability to do that, we actually Suddenly, for me, it was suddenly seeing my own value and all of the different buckets of value that we have. And I think that's what, you know, is a conversation to have today, is helping people understand that there is so much wisdom in our experience and what we've done, including all of the pitfalls, pause points, and possibility points that we've had. You know, they've all coloured that tapestry to where we've got to today.

Yeah, exactly. And now I've just noticed that a few people have said that they can't hear me. Okay, I'm actually just going to change headsets because I would hate for people to miss out. Let me take a moment to address that.

Beautiful, absolutely. Now, while you're doing—

If you could maybe let me know if you You can hear me better now?

Doing that, and I've got— I've turned the volume up for us both as well. So thank you for that feedback, everyone.

Much appreciated. Thank you for letting us know. There's nothing worse than wanting to listen to a conversation and having to kind of strain to hear.

And not being able to.

Yes. Sorry, I was a little distracted now. So your last point was?

The fact that we're able to suddenly see when we hit that, for me, it was I hit, I did have it both at 40 and then at 50, but hitting that point where you suddenly have that, you absolutely understand that call to adventure, but you actually know what your, I call it my quest, you know what your quest is, you know what your purpose-driven element is. It's almost, for me, it was like a growing up or awake, as some people call it, an awakening. And I think that's the point for me when I realized that I wasn't one-dimensional and that there's all these other buckets that I have and that looking— I was able to look back retrospectively and see how all of the buckets sort of aligned with each other, which was what was coloring the tapestry. And that's the, I suppose, the depth of the conversation with your experience that I'd like to explore more because of this rise of this encore entrepreneur.

And I think maybe before we go even any further, maybe we should just address what that actually means. Your listeners may have heard it referred to, but generally it's— encore entrepreneurs are those who at a particular point in their lives, and it does tend to be the 50+ bracket, it can be earlier than that as well, is that they look at what they have done before. And they might have had a business, or they might have had a very professional career. Career. And so asking, you know, asking ourselves then at that point, we say, well, what is it that we really want to do with the rest of our lives? What is it that we are searching for? What is it that we feel— what's the impact that we feel that we can make in the world. And so the Encore piece is about recognising that there is a very significant second act for us all. You know, we don't have to be driven by what has come before. Right. You know, the whole thing with the second act of a play or a piece of theatre is that you have all of this stuff unfold. You've got know, the story of your life essentially unfolds. There's a climactic point. The climactic point might be you turning 50. And so, and then, so we're left there kind of hanging. We have the interval that might be our 50th birthday. And then we go, okay, what am I going to do with the rest of my life?

Yeah.

What is my encore? How am I going to set myself up for success in the second half of my life? And so encore entrepreneurs are those who actually choose to take a different road for the second half of their life, often very different to what they've done in the first half. And it could be that they create their own business out of, you know, their, their passion, something that they have always, you know, really been closely connected to. Or it could be that they move into something that they've always wanted to do but never had the opportunity. Right. And I see this all the time with many women, is that they, they, you know, often they've got to a point where maybe if they have children, they've left home, or they've grown up enough for them not to be as much, um, requiring as much attention, shall we say. Yeah. Or they've come to a point in their lives where there's just a little bit more freedom. And as a result of that, that it's what Well, what am I— how am I going to fill my days? What am I going to do that can create the biggest impact? You know, what's my legacy going to be? And I work with so many women who have got to that point and say, look, I've got this fabulous idea for a book or a program, or I want to run a retreat, or I want to do this kind of work, but I don't know how to start.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, there's that piece, but how do they How can they get moving on this idea? And how can they, you know, basically tap into that call to adventure and be encouraged to move forward with their idea and to, you know, maybe get some support? And it was actually one of the reasons I created the Seasoned Voices Network was to create that kind of support for women who wanted to move forward. Cool. along a little further along with their great idea or just needed some like-minded souls who they could talk to about what's next. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think you've tapped— touched on something that is so critically important is when you have that call and you find what your adventure is or your quest and you've, you know, you've got a legacy of often wisdom or shared knowledge because often it comes from that. I want to just get this out to the world. It's, you know, I want to be able to share this. I want to make that impact for the other generations and to make the path easier for the next people coming along. Having that community of like-minded people that are on that same or having that same experience of call to adventure, it may all be lots of different types of adventure, but having that collective where you can share ideas— I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it— It actually helps to build that courage momentum where you can actually move through and along that journey together because you've got, you know, you've got your comrades that are doing the same thing as well. So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about your community and how you've seen those sorts of things happen within it.

Well, one of the reasons I actually started it was that I couldn't find a group like that for myself.

Yeah.

And working as a coach and mentor, uh, you know, when you're doing your training and all of that, of course you, you have mentors who work through the program with you and through your work. Um, and after that's over, you're kind of like, well, off you go, do your own thing. So true.

So true.

Ah, where's my support network now? And you might stay in touch with a few other students and whatnot.

Yeah.

But really, you know, you're on your own. And I've always been very proactive, I suppose, in addressing some of the things that I need. So if there's something that is, um, that I feel is maybe missing in my life or in my circle of connections, you know, I'll, I'll look at, well, what else is out there? What, what can I tap into? Mm-hmm. And I have incredibly strong connections, as you can imagine, through the world of theatre. theatre, many actors and other directors. And so that community is very strong and very solid. But when you move then into a slightly different— so you might move into a different career or different trajectory with a business, you suddenly don't have that same support network.

So true.

And I was looking around and I was thinking, well, I have some really amazing female friends, many of whom I consider mentors for me. You know, we can get together and we can talk about, you know, some of the really sticky things, whether it's in business or personal. Yeah. When I looked at the broader community in terms of women beyond 50, there wasn't a lot around. There's a lot of focus on young entrepreneurs. There's a lot of focus on startups. There's a lot of focus on women moving up through business or through their careers, which is all absolutely essential, and for men as well. But for women over 50, there's very little. And so when I actually realized that, okay, I could probably count on one hand the number of women that I would call if I was in difficulty. And I thought, that's not good enough. It's not good enough for me, for me to be able to really, you know, make the impact I want. And if I— if that's me, and I'm, you know, reasonably adept at networking, and I've been in many networking groups, but if I— if that's how I'm kind of looking through the world, through that lens, that I have very limited support. What about all of the women who are just starting out? Starting out. And they don't know what they don't know yet.

You

know, that's— I thought, well, there has to be— we've got to create something where women can come together and they can talk about, well, this is what I'm working on. You know, have a bit of a creative brainstorm session together where, you know, you can say, well, this is what I'm thinking of. But I'm not quite sure how I go. Like, I've, I've got kind of the end goal in mind, but I don't know actually what are the significant steps for me to get there. And the reason I commented in the, uh, the chat, you know, learning the art of business— Absolutely. The biggest initial hurdle. And so one of the reasons I created the Seasoned Voices Network is for women, and I do have some men in the group as well, some of my clients over the last couple of years. And so enabling us to be able to come together and to talk about some of the things that— or the issues, if you like— that are experienced mainly by women over 50.

Mm-hmm.

So women coming up through the ranks, developing their careers, maybe developing their Yeah, a startup business, they have a heck of a lot more support. There's a lot of awards around that they can apply for.

Yeah.

When you hit that kind of like that line in the sand, uh, where, you know, you are nowhere near done yet, but, you know, society has a habit of kind of like going, oh, well, you're over 50, we're going to put you over in that corner. It's almost like a naughty corner, you know.

Yeah, bring on that naughty corner.

Bring it on, bring on the naughty corner. And so that was, that was really at the core. Like,

yeah,

I wanted to have more women around me that I could support, but who would also provide some of that go-to for me as well. That, you know, like, who mentors the mentors? Yeah. It really comes down to. And, you know, I volunteer a lot of my time to mentor for the Brisbane Business Hub. And for other particular groups when I'm asked for speakers, upcoming speakers. But when it comes to it, like, who's there for me?

Yeah.

And so when I realized that there was this gap, I thought, well, I've got to do something about it because I can.

Yes.

And it just— for me, you know, and I'm well beyond the 50 mark now. I'm— I was 66 last birthday. So for me, you know, I'm constantly reinventing myself and my business. And so I'm not alone. There's plenty of women over 60 developing a business for the very first time who need help, who need support, and who want to know, how can I do this and how can I do it well?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the beauty of that collective of asking those questions, you know, how can— who mentors me? Who mentors the mentor? But, you know, also, how can I do this well regardless of age? one of the common things that I see is that we don't— we can't read our own label when we sit inside our own jar. And another— somebody else said it another way the other day, which was, you know, we can't see our eyebrows. But having that, which I thought was brilliant, I just love both of those. And that when you've got a group of women together and you— and/or men, you've got the opportunity to ask those questions, you know, how do I step forward. We often don't see it, and I know myself, I don't see the steps for myself, but someone will go, it's just blah, blah, and blah. And it's like, oh yeah, of course it is, because I would have said that to you had you asked me. But that's the beauty of that collective tacit knowledge and wisdom. When we share it in a collaborative cohort like that, we really do propel ourselves and each other forward. And I think that's the magic that comes with wisdom and with the opportunity to be collective in that manner. So well done.

Thank you. It's a work in progress, you know, like everything. Yes. I started it a year ago and I've been just letting it grow at its own pace. It's— I don't push it. I just talk about it when I have the opportunity. Yeah. I invite people to— it's a free network. I invite people to come and join. And because the majority of it is online, even though I run some in-person events, you know, anybody can actually be a part of it. Yeah, beautiful. Share a little bit more about how to do that later on.

Yeah, absolutely. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more as it relates to this rise of the, of the encore entrepreneur, as it relates to the mindset and the growth thinking. So you would have seen lots of different challenges come up as For yourself, as I have. So happy to be part of that conversation, as well as the community that you're developing. So what do you— I know you've got some particular models or phrases around the mindset and growth thinking. Can you just expand on some of that with us, as well as what you're seeing?

Yeah, absolutely. And the first one, as you say, focusing on mindset. Now, the way that I like to refer to it is, you know, we've all heard about open and closed, or growth mindset versus fixed. I like to refer to it as open or obsolete. So one of the first things we have to do, and this has been a constant for me, you know, I feel like I'm constantly reinventing how I do my business, how I put myself out there.

Agreed.

Yeah, it's very much a part of that. And I think we all go through that at all stages of our life. We realize That our lived experience and our wisdom and everything starts to come together in a slightly different way.

Correct.

So if we can actually focus for a moment on our— do we have an open mind or do we have— are we really tapping into obsolete thinking? So that's thinking that might have got you where you were 30 years ago or 20 years ago or even last week.

Right.

How— but, you know, we change every single day something else pops up to either challenge us or to help us to grow in a different way. Yeah, we learn something new and go, oh my God, I never knew that.

So true. Yeah.

You know, like Helen Keller says, life should be a daring adventure or nothing. Yeah. So, you know, this call to adventure requires us to have an open mind, an open mind about opportunities because they, as you would know, Sally, they never show up like you think they're going to. No. And, you know, we might have a really— we might say, right, this is how I'm going to create this, like, for myself. And so the Seasoned Voices Network, this is how I'm going to create it. I'm going to do all of these events. I'm going to do this. And then nobody wanted to come to events because they were scared about COVID And so, oh, okay, well, I have to do all my events online. Okay, well, I can do this. And

Shift. Yeah.

Something else shifted and changed.

Yeah.

You've got to be open to opportunities that show up. And you've got to also be really aware about your thinking. And is there obsolete thinking in your world that is not moving you forward? So are you hanging on to the way you used to do things? And if particularly if you're moving into a business, For an entrepreneur, your thinking has to change because you're not only the business owner, you're also managing the business. So you're working in the business. Business and on the business.

Yeah,

you know, so you've got to make sure, is that sustainable for you? As you know, if you're moving out of looking after family into having more free time, some of the thinking that is now perhaps obsolete, is that you've got to put everyone else first. Yes, yes. Well, I don't need to do that. So the very first tip, I suppose, is to really pay attention to your thinking. Is it open? Are you open? Are you— is your mind in fact open for business?

Mm, well said. Brilliant.

Are you open for business? Is your thinking allowing you to be open for business, or is that obsolete thinking getting in the way and kind of like, um, basically, you know, contracting, allowing you to really flourish in this new venture? So we really do need to pay attention to our thinking. And then on the back of that, um, is Being able to let go of expectations. As I said, things, opportunities don't show up in the way that we think they're going to.

Very true.

It might be, well, this is how I want to do it and this is how it's going to come about. Now, you know, the universe, as we know, has slightly different plans. They don't

have a big sense of humor. Yep.

And a wicked sense of humor. And don't do timing the same way that we do. mortals do. So, you know, sometimes we think, oh, well, it's going to be like this. You know, I had great plans. I expected to have lots of paid members in my group in the first year. And I realized that people just wanted to try it out first.

Yes.

And so I have lots of members now, but not— it's not a paid community. It's a free community. And it felt like, well, that's actually what it needed to be.

Yeah.

My original idea I had to let go of those expectations of how things would unfold and the timing in which it would unfold. Mm-hmm.

And

just recognize that as, as I stepped up, as I stepped forward, as I showed up more and more, more and more people would be drawn to that and drawn to that energy. So letting go of the way things will show up is really important as well. And again, it ties so beautifully into the idea of the open mindset and being open in your heart and in your mind for business.

Yeah.

And so that's a big part of it as well, you know, because often we think, well, I'm ready to do this, but our heart's saying something else. Yeah. Our heart's saying, who are you to do this, you know? And who— why should you be doing this? Why would anybody listen to you? It's, you know, I work a lot with, uh, emerging And it's one of the things that they all struggle with. They say, well, everybody else is already talking about this. Why would anybody want to listen to me? And so you've got to help them to understand what is uniquely different about

them

and that that's actually the piece. That's the perspective.

Yeah.

Content. It's their perspective on it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Their wisdom.

Helping us to move forward and the wisdom that we've generated over our time. So recognizing that these are all pathways to setting up the stage for a significant second act, you know, the encore entrepreneur. And then the final piece is, and again, all 3 kind of weave together really beautifully.

They do.

Which voice is uppermost? Is it the sage, the voice of wisdom, the wise woman, the, the one who kind of has, has your best interests at heart? Yeah. Show you the way forward, who is heart-based, not ego-based. So that's the sage wisdom. Is that voice louder or is the saboteur louder?

Louder. Yeah.

And we all have that. that push and pull, you know, where it's like one day you go, right, I can do this, I've got this, I know what my next steps are, I know how to move forward. And then the saboteur comes in and says, oh, but everybody else is doing that already. Nobody wants, nobody wants your work. Or so-and-so has just been talking about that on social media. I can't really add anything further to that. Again, it's about recognizing which of those 2 voices are louder? And then addressing, looking at that. And that's where, you know, having a mentor, having a coach to work with you through some of these challenges, because it can be very challenging when you're moving into an area or of, say, business, and you have this passion project and you want to turn it into a business, but you don't quite Quite know, like, how do I do this? Like, yes, you can get lots of information about how to set up a business, but how do I get clients? How do I reach people? How do people find me? More importantly, how do people find me and how can I serve them best?

Yes.

So paying attention to those 2 voices, being open to opportunity, open for business rather than using obstacles Lead thinking to try and get you where you want to go and letting go of the expectation that things should show up in a certain way.

That's for all of those people.

Yeah.

Sorry, I was just going to say that's the letting go as a known control freak. And I like to get everything all lined up, which is why we know that the, you know, universe has a very wicked sense of humor because I like everything lined up and it'll— something comes along and just goes, I'll just give that a shake. And it's sort of like just all out of whack. And it's like, okay, I can work with that. So that adaptability. But I think sort of touching on that mindset thing, one of the visuals that came up for me that somebody shared with me where you've got that dichotomy of the, you know, courage and then the wobbles was, you know, the one day you've, you've slung on your, you know, your Superwoman cape, and you're ready to go. And then something, the saboteur comes along and just staples that cape to the wall. And you're stuck. And then it's just, you know, picking them all off again and getting going. It's having that visual of, yes, I've just been stapled to the wall, so to speak. But you know that you have the ability to to rip that, rip it off the wall and, you know, get going again. And it's just, for me, it was about creating little, oh yeah, that's, you know, putting a picture to it and working out, okay, well, I can get around that picture and moving forward. But having the ability to laugh about those situations, which really are only momentary if you let them be momentarily, momentary, having the opportunity to share those, you know, those wobble moments with other people. actually does help you to propel yourself forward. And you actually do have to laugh about it, just like you laughed when I said about the staples down the wall. We've all felt that. And we've all broken free of that yet again to continue on that journey. And I think that courage of— the courage that it takes to be on that quest or that adventure call is the fun and the adventure in itself of that self-discovery and at creating the impacts that we want within the world.

Yeah, I actually, uh, quite a few years ago now, I think I wrote a blog post which I called Went to the Wobble. And it was actually about the creative process because, you, you know, I worked a lot with training actors in film and television and young actors. So I'm talking 18 to 25. So they were fairly new to the industry and emerging artists, if you like. And they go to the wobble quite a lot.

Yes.

They're still trying to find their place in the world. And so anything can kind of like knock them sideways. You know, they don't get an audition or they get knocked back for something that they sure— they were sure that they were a shoo-in for. Yeah. But they just didn't look right. You know, it's a very subjective industry. Unfortunately, it's not just about talent. And so finding the thing, like being resilient in that space, as you say, working out, well, how do I unstaple that cloak off the wall? I just love that visual. How do I free myself from that with the least amount of distress to myself or my cape? Yes. So that I'm ready to fly again in the future. And I think that's, you know, building One of the things that, particularly with an open mind and letting go of expectations, is that we can then be open for those opportunities to show up in a different way. Yeah. Yes, maybe we didn't get that project. Maybe we didn't get the funding for what we hoped. But it's allowed us to work, okay, well, maybe I need to do this in a slightly different way.

Yeah.

And allows us to actually Just develop a little bit more resilience too in the way that we deal with those kinds of setbacks.

Yeah, and more tools that are tucked in under that cape. We can, you know, we've just got a different— lots of selections of tools tucked in there.

Lots of pockets.

Lots of pockets, yes, absolutely. One of the things that you've sort of talked about there, and it reminds me of what I'm going to ask you, is your favourite one-liner, because I think that's a really nice way to sort of lead into what you've actually said there. You've got a favourite— I know you've got a couple of favorite one-liners, but I'd love you to share your favorite with us at the minute.

Absolutely. So it is, you're not for everybody, and that's okay. Now, oh, I just got all goosebumpy. So that's obviously an important one for people to hear. Yeah. Say it again. You're not for everybody, and that's okay. It's probably the thing that I've— it's one of my biggest learnings myself. Yeah. And, you know, that started as an actor where, you know, I might not get the audition that I was sure that I was a shoo-in for. Well, I've got all the skills, I looked the part, but somebody was better or a better choice. And then as you develop in business, you know, the different businesses I've had, I would have like, I would have these moments where I would just think, oh, I'm hopeless at this because I'm not getting the clients that I expect.

Yeah.

And part of that was that because I wasn't necessarily resonating at the— or vibrating, whatever language you like to use— because I wasn't putting out the energy of my true worth or my true self,

yeah,

people couldn't necessarily find me.

Yeah.

And that's part of the magic of being an older woman, is that you get to a point and you say, you know what, I don't care if you don't like me. It's none of my business.

Yeah.

How you feel about me is actually none of my business.

Yeah.

And I'm okay with that. So if I'm not your cup of tea, you know, I will be someone's cup cup of tea. And so getting to a point in your life where you can just sit with that and be okay with that is absolutely magical. Because look, I'm not saying that, you know, that's me every single day. Of course, there's going to be knockbacks. I'll go, oh, well, that's a shame. I was really hoping XYZ.

Yeah.

Let go of the expectation. Go back to, okay, well, maybe there's something bigger and better out there. I just can't see it at the moment. the moment.

Yeah,

just recognizing that you're just not going to resonate for some people. And that's okay. As long as you are bringing your full self, your authentic self, the work that you are doing, you will find the people who resonate with you.

And they'll find you.

Wonderful. There's a wonderful word that I use when I'm doing my Maestro Mindset Program. And that is— the word is consonare, and spelled C-O-N-S-O-N-A-R-E, and it means to sound together.

Oh, wow.

So when we are in consonance— so we have that resonance. Yeah. So when we are in consonance, we are totally in the vibration of our life. We are in the vibration of what we are here to share, what we are here to teach, what we are here— or the way in which we are here to impact.

Mm-hmm.

So when we ourselves are in that space of being totally in consonance with our own authenticity and our truth, then of course we are going to find the people who resonate with that. And they will be the people who, you know, You will just have so much joy working because, or teaching or training or whatever your business might be, but they will find you because I go, I want what she's having.

Yes. Yes.

That's how I want to feel in my life. So that's the person to help me find that.

Yeah. And I think that's when you find that, and I'll just call it resonance at this point, you do all of a sudden. start to attract and you feel and something shifts. And the ability to ebb and flow within that, because obviously there's still some ebbs and flows. But when you get that very, very— and I remember it distinctly— that very first taste of it. And I see it with clients when they get that very first taste of it, that something's just shifted. And they often think it's external. Something's just shifted and they get— they suddenly suddenly start to attract all of these new opportunities. They get really great feedback from their clients, they get feedback from the community, they're getting great results. But that's, that, that's them coming together and the magic happening from within them that is actually bubbling or effervescing out. So yeah, beautifully expressed. Thank you, Simone. Awesome.

I like that. Well, it's one of those that You know, you can just, you know, I think everybody should have it as a screensaver. Yeah. Remind themselves that, you know, when, when something doesn't go the way they expect, then okay, that's all right. They're not necessarily my tribe and I can work with that. Yeah. And I'm okay and I can be okay with that.

Yeah. And that, for me, I was having a little bit of a mental giggle when you were talking about it because I remember chatting with Gary Edwards about, oh my God, I don't think I care anymore. I feel very black and white. It's either you're either in or you're out. And we had this conversation about— we both got to a certain age and how we actually didn't— not so much we didn't care about our audience, but we didn't care about what was said if we weren't right. And that for me was where that growing up had come in. I'd finally grown up enough that I wasn't continually concerned about what other people thought. It was, I'll just seek all of the opportunities. I'll give it my best go. I'm on this adventure. I'm on this quest. And what's right is right. And what isn't, isn't. And the ability to lean into that and then play along with that, which is part of that letting go process. I must admit, for me, it was a little bit challenging. And I know and feel that because I could look at it from the outside in and see it. But it was that for me was where the greatest growth and that greatest, the greatest adventure has been because of that letting go. And I think that in itself is such a big gift.

Yeah. Absolutely.

How do you find with the women that you work with that for those that are control freaks and like everything sort of upside up, how do you find What's the— is there a process? Do you find that there's something that happens? Is there a commonality that helps them move through that that you'd like to share?

I do find that you still like— for those who like to have some sense of control, and whether it's, you know, in their business, or whether they're trying to create something new, you still give them some structure.

Yes.

So So it's kind of like, you know, if you're doing— in the theater, if you're doing improvisation, people think, oh, you just have to get out there and you just open your mouth and all this stuff comes out. Yeah, yeah. Improvisation, yeah, it requires you to have really great listening skills. You have to deeply listen to what you're being fed. So there is still, and there are certain, like, subtle rules that, you know, you don't do this and you don't do that because otherwise it, the project stalls.

Mm-hmm.

The same is, the same is true. So taking some of those ideas from the world of improvisation into business, um, you've got to listen for the feedback that you might be, um, given. So if your client is, and I'm working with a client at the moment who loves structure. So she gets structure, she gets an outline, and I say, okay, well, I want you to improvise within that structure.

Nice.

So, yeah, so we have something that— a container, if you like. Yeah, we have a container, but within that, just like a— I'm really mixing my metaphors— like a little sandpit, you know. You— the sandpit has to have a boundary because otherwise the sand just goes everywhere, and, and after a little while, there won't be anything to play with. So you have to have some kind of boundaries. So that's the role of the structure. Yeah. Create some boundaries. So you say, okay, we will do this, but we won't do that.

Yeah,

we will, we will bring in this kind of thing to work with, but we won't bring in that kind of thing. So we give them a sense of that they have a little bit of control. And we— and I encourage— I'm speaking in the royal we— and I encourage them to then play.

Yes. Yes.

And to be curious. So one of the other things, uh, you know, I really love to work with when I'm coaching people is to develop their sense of curiosity.

Yes.

And when you're really firmly in control, you kind Shut down your curiosity. Curiosity. Asking. And so of course that relates exactly to— it relates to being able to see the potential in something that you're doing without needing to control how the outcome is going to— yeah, what the outcome is going to be.

So

that's again harking back to letting go of the expectations. Expectation, recognizing that you've got a certain amount of things that you're going to play with, and then being curious about, well, what else? And so that's, that's probably one of my other favorite, uh, 2 other favorite things that I could share. One is to say yes, and— Yes. Straight from the world of improv. Yeah. Heard it a lot. Straight from the world of improv. Um, this is how we generate the next piece of content or creation on that stage or in our business. We are curious and we ask, yes, and, and the other piece is to say, what if, or to ask, what if? Yes, and what if? So to remind you to stay in that curiosity mindset.

And I think for me, for me, when you were talking, I did some work earlier at the beginning of the year as part of the setup for the year, and we talked about be like water. And when you were talking, I wrote down the words, it's play in the fluidity. Because I love structure to give me the racetrack, but like a lot of people, I also rebel against too much structure because, you know, there's that, you know, how do you do that? But it's playing in that fluidity and having, as you said, those, you know, the— The benchmarks or the, you know, ground, small ground rules, but then having the curiosity to play within that container. Because when you realize that there's a container there, it's way larger than what we think, which is that, you know, that big, that bigger mindset thinking side of things as well. So yeah, and that yes, and, and what if was just brilliant. So thank you. We are fast coming to the end of the show. It just goes so quickly, doesn't it? One thing I'd love to just ask you too, from an audience perspective, from a theatre perspective, and the connecting with this, with the Encore Entrepreneur, how do you define connection or connecting with your audience?

It's an ambiguous question. Yes, it's a great question. It's a really great question. I'm not sure if I would use this as the definition. I'm perhaps going more to the how-to. Hmm. For me, it's all about the storytelling. What story are you telling when you are out there? Are you living your brand? And you might be in the really early stages of your business as an encore entrepreneur, so you might not quite know yet what that even looks like. You might have a sense of it. But part of that is that the connection is, as I said earlier, is about being authentic. And, you know, and it can feel so overused these days because everyone talks about authentic marketing, which to me is like a what?

Yeah, agreed.

It's like, yeah, go different directions. But it is really about being Absolutely true to yourself, like true to what you believe in. So the way that you connect, I think, is that you must first connect to yourself.

Yeah.

You first need to understand what you stand for. So what is it that you, you know, like for me, having a sense of purpose and being passionate about what I do are vital to me. You know, they're some of my strongest Do I know how some of it's going to unfold? Absolutely not. But for me to connect to an audience, it's about me recognizing my own truth and living it and speaking that out loud.

Yeah. And I'm getting—

The way that I do that is through story.

It's through storytelling. And I'm just going to touch on a word that also gets a little bit overused, but I know I'm sort of feeling and sensing into that word of vulnerability. within that storytelling, which is where the truth comes from. Can you add to that a little bit as well?

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, I've actually done a TED-style talk on vulnerability as our greatest strength. And a lot of people think, oh, well, vulnerability means like I literally have to open up everything and show the audience everything. And that audience can be online, it could be on stage, it could be whatever. Yeah, it's not that. It's about having discernment about what parts of the story need to be shared that are relevant for the audience, are relatable for the audience.

Yeah.

It can't be something that has no— it just has no connection with that audience. If you're sharing something that happened to you when you were 3 years old, it's not going to have relevance for helping the audience to understand a teaching point. That makes sense. When it comes to vulnerability, it's not, you know, baby in bathwater kind of stuff. It's not about airing your dirty linen in the closet, airing the dirty linen, all of that kind of, those kind of analogies. It's really about recognizing what are the parts of your story that will have the most resonance for your audience and the most Relevance audience so that they can see themselves in your shoes and that they can connect with you on a deeper level.

Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. And in closing, how can people best connect with you and reach out to you and to find out more?

Well, you have very kindly shared my website, so that is a way that you can find out a little bit more about the work that I do. And that also allows you— there's a link there that you can come and join us in the Seasoned Voices Network if that is something that is calling to you today or when you're listening to this. And all of my contact details are on my website.

Yeah.

I also have a separate area like courses, so you'll find it on the courses page where I have a couple of free offerings where I have a fabulous little book called A Cup of Calm, which I created during COVID to help people stay a little more connected, a little calmer, and yeah, a little more in control of their emotions and finding those moments in each day to pause, breathe, and simply be. Yeah, that's always been really, really popular. So you'll find the links to all of that on my website. Website. The easiest. And of course, I'm on LinkedIn, so track me down there. I'm on Facebook and Instagram, so YouTube. There's a number of different ways you can reach me. So absolutely, looking forward to connecting with you.

Yeah, thank you very, very much. Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure sharing with you again today, Simone. Thank you for all of your wisdom that you've shared. I'm excited to be able to share this and get this out to a broader audience. with and for you. So thank you very, very much.

Thank you, Sally. As always, delighted to be able to have these beautiful conversations with you. So thank you for hosting me.

You're very welcome. And for those wanting to know what's coming up next, we have a lady by the name of Heather joining us on our next episode, and we're going to be talking about the chaos control system. And so another deep conversation on how to propel you forward, give you tools, strategies, and tips to have forward movement and grow in a way that you feel best— is, is best for you. So thank you very much for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you again on another episode of Success Secrets Exposed. Take care.

Bye.