Success Secrets Exposed - The whats and hows of good customer service

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Welcome to Success Secrets Exposed with Sally A. Curtis, where we share stories of challenge, success, and inspiration, along with practical tips and strategies to move you forward to your success. And now here's your host, Sally A. Curtis.

Good evening and good morning to you and welcome to an exciting episode today. It's our marketing month— it's— sorry, start again. It's our monthly Marketing Magic episode with myself and Celeste. So welcome, Celeste.

Hello. This is— I'm so excited about today's topic.

Are you? Good, good, good. Excellent. So what we're going to talk about today, as you said, a very exciting topic. It's going to be customer service related. We're going to be talking about the whats and the how of customer service. And this is going to come from our years of experience working with clients that are in the service-based industry and entrepreneurs that are dealing with customer-facing situations. So we've got lots of stories and lots of insights to share with you today. Celeste, can I ask you to introduce yourself first off the ranks today, please? Thank

you. My name is Celeste and I'm the founder of Lustosa Marketing, an end-to-end agency providing end-to-end marketing services to service providers. And like Sally, I'm a marketing strategist and a bit of a nerd when it comes to marketing.

Yes, definitely. So lots of fabulous nerd-related stories that will really, really give you insights. I love listening to Celeste's stories and certainly absorb in the magic when she gets telling some of those stories because they do make it really, really easy to understand. And for those that are new to the show, my background, as Celeste says, is a marketing strategist as well, but I specialize in the arena of speakers, coaches, and consultants that are building a practice. The areas that I help them with predominantly is LinkedIn lead generation, visibility and credibility, as well as content repurposing. And it is my role to help amplify their voice, their message, and their impact. But more importantly, let's dive into our very first topic today. And I'm going to sling this one over to Celeste to ask you what, as it relates to customer service, what's your definition of customer service?

I think one of the things that I was going to start with is that I would like to not say customer service anymore and say customer experience. I think things have really changed in the way people do businesses and the expectations that customers have with the digital world and the fact that we are out there. There's lots more information and lots of more competition. I think now it's not just the service, as an experience. What do you think, Sally?

Yeah, I was reading up on the transitions and the trends that have occurred since COVID and we were sort of talked about customer experience back before COVID had actually hit. But I really think the clients or the customers' version of that, they've got much more knowledgeable. They're coming back out into their world now. And they want, they want that experience. They know and instinctively feel that experience or not feel that experience. So they're actually looking for it, even though they might not know how to name it yet. They are actually absolutely looking for it and they know when it's not there and they'll let you know about it for sure.

The other thing is that before, what was defined as customer service was almost like when the customer was in front of someone within your business. So they were in your store, they were in front of your salesperson or your receptionist or someone, and then that was the customer service, was that immediate service that was being provided, that exchange. And now we call it customer experience because that starts way before they come in front of you. With social media and digital and websites and collaterals, advertising that are on Google, Facebook. What happens is that the customer experience with your brand starts way before you have a chance to shake hands or talk to them about your solutions. So I think that's also come from that experience, you know, understanding where it starts and where it ends with your brand.

Yeah, and I've— I'm just going back into my arena, we talk about the fact that a client needs to consume on average, and these are actually old statistics now, needs to consume at least 11 pieces of your content to get to know you. So I'm seeing a real uplift in people saying both to myself and to clients, oh, I've been stalking you for a long time. I think you were one of those too, Celeste, if I remember right. So people are actually checking us out for a long time before they actually engage with us. And pre-COVID, in my world, you used to be able to get away with email marketing and content marketing, etc. But it's— they want even more than that now. They want to actually feel like they belong to something, which is more experiential than just being another name on an email list, for example.

That's absolutely true. And I think one of the things— and just going through, I have my little notes that Sally always gives me to start the conversation. I think there are some key things that every business owner or anyone who is doing business with someone needs to be very mindful and aware of when it comes to customer experience and to dealing with the customer. And one of the things that I always go back to is that not only the customer is obviously what's going to keep you in business, But they should somehow be the reason you started your business. So everyone starts a business to— because they came out with this solution to someone's problem, to someone's challenge, or to someone's desire. So you might not be dealing with necessarily something people need, but you might be dealing with something that people want, uh, to better themselves or, or for whatever reason. So Tap back into that day where you say, look, I found this solution. Who was it? Who was that for? So at the end of the day, that person who you created this solution for is your beginning, is why it all started. And I think so it has more meaning than just the financial side of it. It's not just because customers give you the money and, and will ultimately be your paycheck, but they're the why you started where you started.

So ultimately, to continue to really, really understand— and this gets back to understanding your ideal client intimately— but also the reason that you were first inspired to help them. Yes. Yeah, beautiful.

Absolutely.

How do you help your clients bridge that gap From, I've got that, I've been inspired, I've created this solution, I know that they've got a problem. How do you help your clients move forward into that as it relates to the customer experience? Just give us some headlines.

So I think one of the things is the communication, the messaging. So lots of people want something, but they don't necessarily know that they want it. too early in the process, and you can help them figure that out with good copy, good, uh, content, with a clear message of what you do and why and how, uh, that gets delivered. But the other thing is that today it's not enough just to have one website or have a Facebook page or a social media page or have an email marketing. We today talk about customer journey, and that journey will have a number of touchpoints that your brand should be reinforcing and like helping them with the messaging, with the right message at the right time within their journey. So I think one is really nail down that customer persona, and I think that's a step that seems so basic and lots of people forget about it is who actually your customer is. And please don't say women. That's too much. So you're not going to be able to service, uh, I don't even know how many women are in the world, but, um,

well,

you need to go, you know, go more narrow than, than that. So it's not just people if they're 15 or, or 20, in their 20s. So I think, you know, if, if you started your business and you're doing all these things and you're kind of not getting the traction that you need, maybe pause, take a step back, and go back. Did you actually map out that customer persona, that avatar, what that person looks like? And start there. And I think that's a step a lot of people forget.

Yeah. And it's a step that people want to rush through and ultimately, uh, rushing through it, uh, gives you what I call a scattergun approach, because you don't have the clarity of how to converse with them, what words to use, uh, for them, understanding that, you know, the, what they're actually, um, what they're really actually going through. I remember, uh, working with a consultant, actually she was a coach and she worked, uh, with women. Um, and I had been in her training rooms at some point and she was, we were talking about getting her some marketing and getting clear on her messaging, et cetera. Um, and I remember saying to her, and, and, and you will relate to this. So, so who do you actually, you know, who is your client? And she said, oh, women, but I serve some men too. It's like, okay, so that's everybody. Um, and we ended up, um, we ended up going through just a really simple process, which was because I'd been in her training rooms with her. been at the back of the room, I was able to say to her, and I'm just sharing this little story in case it's a tip to help you just get some insight of where your starting point was. So I said to her, okay, so you did a workshop on this date and this date and this date. So we pulled 3 workshops. And I said, tell me about the 3 of your favorites in that workshop. Tell me about your 3 favorites in that workshop and your 3 favorites in that workshop. Um, and we ended up mapping out what the commonalities— so we mapped out the 3 individuals. So we had, uh, 9 individuals and then we tracked across what the commonalities were. And we actually found through that, that they were all, um, uh, executive women that were, uh, sort of 40 to 60. So actually they were 45 to 60. And for her, because she was sort of in that sort of life sort of coaching space, they had all had a significant upheaval in life. So divorce, um, death, widowed or something, uh, or a marriage breakdown. So something really significant. Um, and they actually all lived in the Eastern suburbs.

Wow.

Um, and they all worked in roles as executive assistants, PAs. So it was a support, high-end support roles. So with that information of going, I help everyone and bringing it back to who are your 3 out of the most recent workshops, what were your favorite you know, your top 10 customers and actually mapping out what you know about them, the demographic, the geographic, and the characteristics, and maybe the desires and problems if you know them. Yeah. And then look for the commonalities. And we were then in a position that we were able to go to these people and these women and say, well, why is it— why do you choose this particular coach? And we were able to ask them some questions. And what came out of that was, oh, we love her because she's like a fairy godmother to us. And she was was from a persona, she was very much like that. She cares about us and we don't feel like we're broken when we come to her. We don't feel like we're fixed. And I really love the community of women that she's created that supports it, which all indicate the customer experience and journey that they're actually looking for, but they might not have actually even known that that was what they were looking for. So I hope that's helpful to give people a bit of a starting point and a bit of an example of how easy mapping a journey out from a starting point can be if you look back to look forward.

And I think the other thing is that will impact everything else you do with your marketing in your planning when you're thinking about the actions of your marketing. So I'm just going to give you an example today. So I am, I'm obviously someone's customer persona. But I'm a mom and I have a kid in preschool, in school, which means that there's no worse time for you to call me for a chat about your service than 8:15, because that's when I'm trying to get my 5-year-old out of the door, you know, rush off putting shoes on and getting the bags and doing the whole drop-off thing.

Hmm.

So knowing who I am as a customer would allow you to not call me at certain times, post on social media at the times where I'm actually looking. So am I a working mom? Am I a single mom? And all of these are going to impact the way I want to interact with the brands I consume. So as a consumer, certain times are going to work for you better than others, and understanding who that customer is will allow you to be at the right time, the right place. And I think that's really important too, because what happens is that people, because there's so many options out there, you have to appreciate how much easier it got for me as a consumer to go to your competitor instead of you because they are also at a click of a mouse for me, right? The fact that you're calling me at any time between 8, 8:15 already tells me you don't understand my life, you don't understand how you're gonna bring solutions to me, you're already out. That one phone call that I actually in the car and say, mate, I can't talk to you right now, I'm dropping my kid at school. And more often than not, the salesperson doesn't get the hint. Oh, but it will just be 5 minutes. And, um, yeah, and then you say you're gone. So I'm no longer in their pipeline of prospects. So I think having that awareness of people's lifestyles and what works for them, what time works for them, the way they communicate— like, I'm an email kind of person. You want to have, um, Show me any, any of the values of your brand. I prefer emails because I like to read it at my, my own time. So understand that. Ask, ask, how would you prefer us to send this to you? Would you like a phone call? Would you like a Zoom? Would you like an email? And let them decide, uh, yeah, what's gonna work best for them.

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that we said sort of, you know, if someone's rung you at that time, you're— they're out of your pipeline. And my instant reaction was, yeah, they're done. They're no longer on my list. They're off the list. They're gone. So that tick and flick that you're either in or you're out is how a customer will think. So that becomes very important with the customer experience and very much the journey that they have with you. So that's awesome. Would you like to take the customer experience in any other direction there, Celeste?

I think just going through some of the key key things that you actually need to nail all the time is the listening aspect of it. So when we're talking about understanding someone, there's only one way to understand someone's situation and how, what they like and how do they prefer things, and it's by asking. So I think being a good listener and having a database or a place where you can dump that information as you receive it It's really important and allowing your team to do the same thing. So I think one other thing that lots of businesses miss is some businesses are just not having those conversations. Oh, so how do you prefer me to contact you? Is there a better time? Is there a better day? But then make note of it.

Notes of it.

Have a database where there's my profile there and that says, do never call her at drop-offs and pickups. She has a 5-year-old. So I used to work for a client before, um, and in the database we would put the most random things. So we would put, you know, uh, does not listen too well, so always send an email after phone call, or wedding anniversary at this date. Mm-hmm. Uh, and we were able to, you know, customer experience, the wow factor um, being in there will put you ahead of the competitors. So we would put meaningful dates in the database as well. So when you're talking to someone, saying, you know, sometimes people will give you such valuable information you just miss because you have your sales pitch so, you know, ready to, to be dropped that you forget the active listening. That people might say, oh, sorry, I'm just getting ready for my son's birthday. Put that in the database.

Yeah.

That's you making the sale over the competitor. Then that it's you know one email that says congratulations to your birthday. Here's a voucher for ten percent discount at our shop. Like if you if you sell products, you know or congratulations on your son's birthday. here's a voucher, uh, here we eat free at our restaurant next time. Something like that will get you that customer for life. And it only comes when you listen, when it only comes when you actually drop the sales pitch for a minute and listen, and listen what they want, what they like. One of the things that also comes from listening is that sometimes you have that sales pitch ready to go. But once you listen and you understand the client's need, and I think you might have a story or two about that, Sally, is that you might actually be able to sell something higher. Definitely. Because you heard and said, well, actually you don't just need the social media. Why don't we do X, Y, and Z for you to get you better results? And you have even your, what we call it, you upsell your service because you listened.

I think adding on to that, the listening, as you said, with that being that active listening and having the ability to record things is super, super important. But also what ties into the listening element is having the ability to be a problem solver. And so by listening, as you said, for those cues, you're listening for the, oh, okay, there was a hesitation there, or there was a word and they've just hesitated. So there's, um, I call it, you know, there's something to dig into. There's a pain point there that they're not quite sure. They know it's painful, but they don't know what it is yet. And so by listening well and finding the next question, and I find myself often saying, hold on a sec, you just mentioned something about the tech not working. Or you just mentioned that you had something and you were working on, say for example, it was a database, is often the one for me. You just mentioned that you've got a database, but something's not— something's gone clunky. So straight away, that's what I would call a choke point. There's a problem there. Um, they're fluff— they're, they're dusting over it or fluffing over it because they want to have the— they had started a different conversation with you. But by picking up and picking up on those little problem clues, enables you to sort of dig a little bit deeper and actually solve the bigger problem, which obviously if a customer can do— if you can solve even a bigger problem from what the customer originally was having a conversation with you about, then that becomes a massive win for all of you because you're demonstrating your expertise and you're really helping somebody have significant forward movement.

So what do you think? I think they'll really appreciate that. They will appreciate the fact that that there has been a conversation, that it's not a sales pitch, it's actually a conversation because you care about what their concerns are, what their pain points are, and the solution for it as well. Um, I think I was just dealing with a customer yesterday, and, um, and agencies have been getting a really bad rap at the moment because apparently Uh, there's so many out there overpromising, underdelivering, which is something that Sally and I talk about all the time. Um, and she, she started talking about their, you know, oh, this doesn't work and this doesn't work. And I stopped and I said, let's just talk about the business. Let's just have a conversation. I'm not, uh, I'm not selling you anything until I understand if I have something. that adds value to you. So why, um, start the conversation from the basics? Like, it's like when you meet someone, you know, you meet someone and you want to understand more about them and, um, a little bit about how their day goes and what are the challenges and, and the successes, what really worked well, what, uh, might not be working. But just have conversations. And I think, um, one of the reasons why I gained that client's trust was because I didn't sell. I was just having a conversation. I was trying to understand what made her pick up the phone and call me in the first place. And it— the funny thing is that, you know, your clients will have the guard up sometimes, and that's okay. It's your job to make them trust you by being authentic, being honest, Don't overpromise and underdeliver. And try to bring, you know, a wow factor to the conversation. Try to, you know, show them what you're about and why you're aligned. And if you're not, just also don't get the job. Don't do it.

Yeah. And that's where I think we work very well in those cases when it's not the right job for us. We've usually got somebody else where it is the right job. And it's like, um, I often will sit down with clients and say, hey, look, I can do this bit, but what you're really needing is somebody that does this.

Okay.

Um, so coming from that service aspect, um, like yesterday was sitting down with a client that said, no, no, no, I absolutely need lead generation. Um, and then they were talking about a magazine that they were gonna run an ad in that, um, what didn't— wasn't actually really a fit for their target market. So I sort of was my little our spidey senses were going off. And so I sort of sat down with them and said, you know, that sounds like you're going to be spending quite a bit of money on that advert. And it was $2,000, which is a significant amount for a small business. And I said, what a guarantee of the returns are you getting? What's this? What's that? They said, oh, we don't know. But, you know, it was bright and shiny and it sounded good and it was, you know, and it's just it. And so I said to them, well, let's, let's just pause that for a minute because I reckon there's probably a better— there's better solutions. that you can probably spend $2,000 on. But right now you've said to me that you actually need lead generation. But based on the conversation we've just had, again, exploring, listening, writing notes down and mapping out what their goals are, what they're actually trying to do, it was actually a case of that they've got a whole database and a whole lot of lapsed customers that they've not been in contact with. for a long time.

Yeah.

It's absolutely untapped. And we know from our experience that there's gold and there's profitability sitting in there that's not been utilized. It was sort of like, let's reengage, let's talk to these people first before we go and do any additional cold outreach, because this is obviously— these people are all warm. And the other thing was they didn't have some systems to be able to make that work. So if we put more leads in, It would have been like putting water into a bucket. It'd all just come out the bottom and it wouldn't have— it would have all been wasted. So it's very important to be able to have open, honest conversations and listen and be of service is what helping create the customer experience at the very beginning of the journey so that they continue through with you.

Absolutely. And yeah, I think when you're authentic, kind of shows that. It also shows that brand value and that we talk about the brand personality. But yeah, this is, this is so important. Say no when you don't think you're the right fit.

Yeah, absolutely. I'd like to sort of just explore from that problem-solving scenario and as it relates to you as a problem solver being the front, because both you and I are the front persons of people of our own businesses.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and we've got different degrees of the number of people that help support us in our business. Um, but I think it's important for people to understand the value that their staff or their support people actually help them, um, in their business as well. Um, so as, um, the lead of a business, we're obviously usually, um, doing the problem solving, we're doing the sales process, we're doing the follow-up process and, you know, coordinating and, uh, operationally managing everybody else. But I think it's, um, it's been a real learning for me, um, going through the hiring process and hiring quite a number of different staff in short, short spaces of time, you know, understanding usually in my case retrospectively, I don't know whether I actually knew this going in, um, was retrospectively understanding that the people that you hire make this, make the difference. So can I ask you if you've got any experience of that, perhaps some, I'll call them war stories, as you know, hiring the wrong, where you've had any customer experience or you've had staff with a customer experience where it's not worked. And then I'll perhaps provide some of my insights as it relates to hiring the staff, which makes a difference.

Sure. I think one of the things with teams, so not just before being in my own business, like being a manager or marketing executive, in other businesses. I think businesses are very scared of allowing staff to make certain decisions to turn a bad customer experience into a good one.

Yeah.

And I mean that mostly when it comes to hospitality. So if you have a restaurant, a bar, cafe, or shop, um, you need to So for me, first of all, is you need to hire people you trust and you need to trust them until they prove to you that they can't be trusted. And then therefore there's a business decision to be made there.

Yeah.

But you need to give your staff autonomy to make a bad experience good again. So I'll just give you a very, a couple of little short examples of things that need to be on the ground that needs to happen. So you go— we went to a fish and chip shop the other day, uh, it took forever. Um, you'll be ready in 10 minutes, 40 minutes later nothing. Um, and you know, the staff didn't know what to do with us there. Mm-hmm. They had no autonomy to just say, look, his free pack of chips because you had to wait, or your meal is free, which for them is not that big of a deal in terms of, look, I'm so sorry you had to wait 40 minutes, you don't have to pay.

Mm-hmm.

You could see the staff was scared. The body language of them showed how nervous and stressful that they were versus another place that we went. These are very different days, different times, different situations. Where, um, you know, we, we had to wait more than we had to. Then, you know, the kitchen— there was some problem in the kitchen restaurant. And not only, um, at the end we asked for the bill, staff was feeling, uh, was apologetic. They were coming, they're like, we're really sorry, this is definitely not how we do business. They came to check on us a couple of times, bring more drinks, and at the end, we did not ask for it. We were quite annoyed. We probably wouldn't go back. The bill came and it not only had zero on it, but with a little note. Oh,

okay.

We're really sorry. We appreciate your patience. And it was, it was, you know, it was Probably $120. It wasn't like a $10 deal, right?

Yeah.

And they said, you're only paying for the drinks, so you're not paying for the— for any of the food, and we're really sorry. We really hope to see you again. Do you see the difference? Um, for me as a customer, it's not about the money. Please understand, I'm happy to pay my bills. It's about that the fact that staff could do something about it to turn a bad experience into a good one. We've been back to the restaurant many, many times. We've never been back to the fish and chip shop.

Yeah.

I bought a product the other day, like a beauty product, and the tube, it was, I bought it brand new. It was pretty much empty. So I went back there to say, look, look at my thing, it's empty. You could see it had never been used. And, you know, I know I had to stand there for probably 25 minutes, get the manager. The manager's having a drink, uh, is having lunch. You need to wait till she's back. I'm not— this is a $20 little foundation thing, right?

Big brand.

Yeah. I'm not authorized and blah. And I'm thinking, mate, you can see the issue. So I think you need to make sure that people on the ground, not the manager, your staff, your entire team has autonomy to make certain things better. I'm not talking about if you're talking a $1,000 kind of problem. I'm talking about the day-to-day little things. Something is broken, you know. There's a shop in Marion, I bought a candle, it was all wrapped and the glass was like, was broken when I opened it. I went there, 2 seconds. Oh, here's your— not like she didn't ask for the manager. She didn't. She saw a problem. She not only was solutions-driven, she said yes. And I think that's one part that we're going to talk about as well, is the power of saying yes. Yes, I'm here to solve this for

you. That's so, so right. And that comes back into when you— hiring the right staff that have problems that you trust, having people that are naturally problem solvers and want to serve through that, but empowering them to create that yes. Yes, it also doesn't mean that you're actually going to need to spend some time actually training them and developing them as individuals. It all— the experience comes back to having the ability To provide good common sense, good manners.

But can I just say, there's a few things you can— they're very practical that you can put in place. So especially when it comes to the money conversation. So I have someone who works with me and we had a very long conversation on, you know, where are the grounds that she can make decisions based on. So Yeah. Put it— even if you feel more comfortable putting a dollar to it, say, look, if it's anything under $100 in our cafe and it's gonna keep the customer in, do it. Don't need to ask me, don't need to ask the manager. If it's over this amount, maybe call the manager.

Yeah.

You know, so if it is an amount that actually could impact Your business, your numbers, maybe call a manager and then that can be a more thorough conversation, or you can be involved in the conversation. But also, if this that number, so if it's above this number, I need to be involved. That's okay. But in the meantime, can you make sure that client had this, this, this? They had a free meal, or they had. 50% off their next visit, or they had something to keep them feeling appreciated and heard until I can come into this conversation.

Yeah,

and I think that's important.

You know, as you said, that's just such simple, simple practical tips, is to have your criteria, your benchmarks as a dollar value, and your criteria So something as an example in my business, as we get so many referrals in, depending on the value of the referral that I've got in, a quick little example is I've got a little chart that says we've just had a referral from X person and the sale essentially is this amount. And here is a range of gifts that you have permission to automatically send out to them. So I don't need to be involved in that. Yeah. Obviously I've been involved in the sales process, But the staff can go, oh great, we know that we've got to find a gift within this price range. Here are the selections of what are suitable. And based on the person that we know that sent the referral in, we think that it could be that. And they're empowered to make that right decision within the business, which helps create that customer experience. In this case, they're customer referrals. 100%. But I, it's, we've put a process in place. It's just a simple one. It's a little, a little spreadsheet. It's easy to do. It's again, just empowering the staff to be able to solve that immediate problem that the customer is having in a fast manner, because a fast and easy manner that the client, as you said, feels heard. But also you're not wasting your time. I've got to ring the manager. I've got to do this. That's the last thing an upset customer wants to hear is all they want to hear is, yes, I can solve that for you. Not, oh, I can't do it, I'm not authorized, I'll need to get somebody. That's like a great big red flag.

Absolutely. And I think the other thing is, um, and one thing I've heard from so many clients before, and I've always tried to educate them, is that they're like, oh, but what if people will take advantage or they just want a free meal? People don't do that. So please do not put something in place in case your staff make one bad judgment one time that the customer, you know, wasn't entitled to the free pack of chips and they got it. Please do not have that kind of mentality. People come to complain when they are unsatisfied. People don't waste their time to take advantage. Yes. I'm not going to your shop to get a free moisturizer that I've already paid for anyway. So, you know, put things into perspective. And I think when, when people don't listen and say the yes, yes, we're gonna fix this, you're doubting my motives. So from a psychology perspective, the person that's listening to, oh, I need my manager to check the veracity of what you're saying, that's the message you're sending me.

You're lying.

I need to check if you're telling me the truth.

Truth.

And that never goes down. Believe your customer, believe that the people that are doing business with you are only going to complain if there's a level of dissatisfaction.

Yeah.

And that the fact that they complained is good for your business because it allows you to identify gaps or things that you need improvement in. It might be, okay, I need an extra pair of hands in the kitchen if we're taking 40 minutes to to deliver the meals, then maybe that means my chef needs help.

Yeah.

And then you can identify these things to make your business better. So I think lots of business owners get very defensive when customers complain, and I never feel that that will take you anywhere in your business.

And that ties into that sort of having the conversation with yourself in the first case, but also staff about practicing and demonstrating patience and empathy. So that's that listening, the patience, the empathy. Let the— if the customer needs to complain and they want to say more than 3 words about it, don't cut them off. Let them air their concerns because by listening you'll hear little cues again. So I think that's very important, getting everybody to understand that the customer experience is everyone's job. It's not just the customer-facing scenario, it's everyone's job. And the ability to listen and to demonstrate their patience and empathy and solve the problem is effectively the steps through continuing to create appropriate customer experiences.

And I'll just add that please always be mindful that there's nothing more dangerous for business than a quiet, unsatisfied customer. When they leave your shop—

That's deep. Say that again. Yeah.

Oh, I don't even know if I can. Um, that was a bit too clever for me. Uh, there's nothing like worse for business than a quiet, unsatisfied customer. customer. If your customers are unsatisfied, and I know some people get a bit, ah, you know, they're all over the place, they overreacted, this and that. Take the overreaction over the quiet ones. They're going to leave, put a bad review, never come back, never refer. You know, like, that's what's bad for business. Listening to someone's dissatisfaction and saying, okay, That's a valid point and we need to work through this. Why don't you give us a second chance? Come again in a month's time and I'll show you all the improvements we've done in that area. Yeah. Or, you know, if it's swapping a product that's not right, why don't you just say, yes, we're really sorry you had that experience with our brand. You know what? Why don't you take this little sample of our newest product, as well as I just exchanged the one that you complained about. You know, like, it's— I promise you, you're not gonna lose money over these little things. You never lose money over trying to make something right. And you do not want unsatisfied, quiet customers. They're the most dangerous one there is. Yeah. And they're the ones that take you out of business.

Yeah, absolutely. So very much about the ability to listen, the ability to say yes, and solve the problem in a very immediate fashion through listening to the customers, because it's all about helping the next customer journey for the next customer to be an improvement from the last one. It's always, always a learning opportunity.

And I know you're— we're almost running out of time, but I just need to touch on something very quickly as well because I feel that it's always a question that people ask. Everything that Sally and I are saying does not mean the customer is always right.

And

I think that whole concept, customer is always right, is very 1980s, no longer applies. The customer isn't always right. That is not the point that we're trying to make. What we try to make is that resolving the problem is your job as a business owner. Yeah. Sometimes the customer is not right. That doesn't mean you should get into an argument with them. So them not being right and you hearing will also allow you to make improvements in your business because the improvement might be that sometimes that is just not the right customer for you, and that's okay. But listening respectfully and understanding, and even sometimes it's going back and checking and say, actually, she's just not the right customer for us. That's okay. But how could we avoid the misunderstanding then? How could we have avoided the expectation that that customer had that we're gonna fulfill something that we weren't? Is that something in our copy that needs change? Is that something in our marketing that didn't make it clear?

Yeah.

To that customer that no, actually we're not delivering that, we're not delivering X, we're delivering Y. So it's identifying that. So once again, please do not think— I am not a believer the customer is always right. I think there's a bit of a mix. Sometimes the customer is right, sometimes they're not. But I think it's a business owner's job to understand why things went wrong.

Yeah, absolutely. And I also think by having— demonstrating that listening and that patience and that empathy, even with those customers in mind, if the customer feels heard, feels respected, and then understands that they're not a right fit for you, They also then understand who they actually also potentially know that is a right fit for you. And that's all the secret of being in business is continuing to have customers coming through your door. Yes, serving the ones that are not a right fit, helping them overcome any challenges or problems that they have with you through listening, and then let it— and then also educating them respectfully to say, hey, we actually do it like this, and therefore we actually serve these sorts of people. And then they, they, they feel more connected to go, oh, I am— you've understood me. It's the law of reciprocity. You've— I— you've understood me. I now understand what you're saying because you've listened to me. I'm now listening to you. Oh, I see where we've gotten— we've gone wrong.

Where we got it wrong.

Where we got it wrong. Not you or not I, but where we got it wrong. That That gives me clarity. Okay, so next time. So, oh, okay. So they then automatically start thinking of people that potentially could be a better fit for you. And, you know, it's somebody's problem that you've solved in that manner can end up being one of your best customer referral sources.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

So I think that's very, very key. And I think it's also really, really important to encourage, as we've just gone through, you know, empowering your staff, encouraging them, giving them the ability to say yes, etc. The last closing points on this as we sort of wind into the end of the show is to say that when you see these good deeds, these good actions delivered to your customers, then make sure that they're recognized and potentially rewarded because if they know they're doing— the right thing, they're going to do more of it.

Oh, and they will really inspire others to also step up and do the same. And then, you know, you realize you've got this team of superstars who are customer-driven, who understand the customer journey, and who are helping your business grow.

Yeah, absolutely. And then as a result of that, the customers are then happy as well. And then happy customers tell other people about the service and the experience or the staff member that helped them out or your services or products and they share that information with others. And that's what business is all about, is getting, getting the networking and getting the referral marketing and the word-of-mouth marketing alongside your existing marketing strategies that you have in place.

Yeah, and I think also just, I know we talked a little bit about when things go wrong, but I think when things go right as well, encourage your staff like they're having— customers having, having really good time or really being brand ambassadors and talking about your brand highly. Just encourage them to have these conversations about the positives as well. What is it about us that you really like, that really works for you?

Absolutely.

And that will also be an amazing insight for your next marketing campaign, for your next customer, how are we using that language that came from one happy customer to attract another one? So encourage that. But once again, you need to have a place where you're putting this intelligence, where you're putting this information. So you have to have a database. There are free ones out there. You don't need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a database. Uh, you can But you don't have to. There are free options out there of really sophisticated database where, you know, put the name of the person and write as much information as you can.

Absolutely, because that— those— all those little intels are all part of the next gold, gold and sequence as far as it comes to communicating with customers. Well, we're just coming to the end of the show. Thank you once again for sharing so much of your wisdom and insights with us from our monthly episode of Marketing Magic. And we look forward to seeing you very much next week. And it will be Celeste and I. You're going to get a double dose of us this month, and we're going to be talking about content creation as well as content repurposing, all of the elements of helping you tell your story out to your communities and audiences. Thank you very, very much, and we will see you naturally next week. Thank you. Take care.

Thank you.

That's it for this week's episode. Thank you so much for joining us. I trust you got some inspirational tips to move you forward. See you next Thursday at 7 PM Eastern for more Success Secrets Exposed.