5 Internet Goldmines To Spot The Next $1B Trend | Steph Smith (#529)

Dude, I was at a dinner and somebody said something as a joke and I put up my finger to my lips and I said, shh, I need to write this down because it was an incredible idea. The guy goes, you put his, but you put your finger on his lips and then my own lips back and forth. And, um, I was like, say no more. I need to, don't, I don't want to lose this idea. Let me write this down.

So today you're gonna talk to, talk us through a bunch of research products that you use. You, a bunch of, a bunch of pipes you call 'em, right?

Yeah. Internet pipes.

I called it research tools. You said that was dumb.

Well, it just sounds boring. It's more accurate, but it's boring.

I call 'em gold mines, which is basically some people just come back and show you a little piece of gold, maybe a jewelry. Steph shows you where the mine is, so you can just keep going back to the mine for more and more gold over time. 'Cause I think people wonder. Uh, you know, if they see your tweets or read your blog posts or hear you on, on our podcast, they're like, where does she come up with this stuff? How does she find this stuff? So today you're gonna tell us exactly that.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, the internet is such a special thing and we often rely on something like Twitter to serve us the information of the day, but I feel like these tools are like, like you said, the gold mine. There's so much information that tells you exactly what people want. Or, um, aggregates a bunch of opportunities for you.

So Steph, tell me about this patent one, because there's actually a handful of like really good examples with this one.

Okay.

That I can, that I know of.

So there's two parts. There's patent filings and patent expiries. So patent filings, I think, um, there's probably some databases that do this, but the newsletter that I like to read is called Patent Drop, and they'll basically break down every newsletter, three or so patents from Again, big tech firms like FAANG, um, but also companies like Nike. Um, by the way, I think Nike is the company with the most design patents, or it's up there. Um, in any case, there's patent filings, so you can track what these big companies are betting on, what they think is interesting that they want to, you know, retain some IP around. And then there's also expiries, um, which is interesting. I think, uh, we covered the company Hims before. And how they basically leveraged a patent expiry, uh, to build their company or at least their first products. Um, so there's a website called patentsexpiringtoday.com, which aggregates these. And obviously it takes quite a bit of sifting because there's a lot of things like, okay, I don't care that some shin guard is, um, expiring. But, um, I think the combination of those two, uh, definitely can, can result in some business ideas.

Have you guys heard of Bluetooth? You guys know what Bluechew is?

Bluechew?

Yeah. So about 3 or 4—

I don't think they target you in ads, but they target us for sure.

Yeah. Basically about 6 weeks ago I went to these guys' office and I met the 2 founders and one of the founders is a doctor and the other one was a commodities trader. And basically they worked together and they were like, what can we start? And they saw that the Viagra patent was going to expire in 2017. And so they like were just plotting and plotting and plotting and Hims gets a lot of credit for doing this, but Bluetooth, I think is actually more interesting. So what Bluetooth does is I think they also own Med.com. So it's basically a telehealth business where you call in and you say what your issue is. Their main thing is their pill. I guess, I don't know if they call it Bluetooth, the name of the pill, but it's for erectile dysfunction, which I didn't realize that it. It's like the customer base for that is like 150 or 200 million people in the world. And then it's projected by 2000, 2030 to be like 400 or 500 million. So it's a massive amount of people who have erectile dysfunction disorder. Um, and they bootstrapped this company and they didn't, I don't know how big they are, but I'm pretty sure they're between $100 and $200 million a year in sales. And they entirely bootstrapped this company starting in 2017. And it was because of that patent that expired. And they built this business because of that.

Yeah, that's, it's an incredible example. Another kind of one chart business. All you had to do is just show, here's the business plan. This is the expiry date of Viagra. We're, we're going to make the, you know, the D2C generic version. And yeah, they just do it through Instagram ads, whatnot. They own, I think it's meds.com. So meds.com, I think is the telehealth side. And then they have Bluechew, which is like their product. I think it's like Cialis, Viagra, and one other that are all, expired now.

Yeah. I went to their office and we were playing poker and they had like a sample, like instead of having like breath mints, it was like a sample of like, you could just reach it and take one. And I was like, I was like, my wife had a baby like 2 weeks ago. I don't think I need this, but like what happens if I take it?

So like here's a room, also a padded room you could just go stand in to see the effects and nobody will look at you. Then come back when you're done.

Yeah. I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna, if this is gonna like be in use anytime soon in my house, but, uh, But they're— I was like looking at some of their numbers, particularly on SimilarWeb, and they had like 2 million people a month coming to their website. And I was like doing back of the, back of the envelope math. I was like, I'm pretty sure this is a massive, massive company. Hims gets a ton of credit because they're publicly traded and they're sort of in San Francisco and they had all this press. I think this company is probably almost as big, and I'm pretty sure the two guys own most all of it. They haven't taken any financing. And so anyway, this patent thing is, is pretty wild.

Yeah. And I haven't gone through the stuff happening in 2024, but another quick call out. Is the public domain stuff, right? So every year new things go into the public domain. We're hitting January soon. And so that's another thing, uh, to call out for folks.

Well, I think like a few years ago, wasn't it like Winnie the Pooh or something like that? Like, like, was it Winnie the Pooh? Like a bunch of these, like, yeah.

And then Ryan Reynolds, uh, took advantage of that. He did, what was it, in partnership with one of the phone companies and he did Winnie the Scrooge, uh, as a commercial.

That's pretty wild. That's pretty funny. Um, by the way, another one of these trends that you called out a few years ago, which I thought was so stupid at the time, and I've since spent probably $500 on this crap, is you did— my wife loves this stuff. It was like minis. It was, um, for some reason—

oh, like mini cooking sets and stuff.

Have you seen this, Sean? Like, basically it's mostly women, I think. Young women.

No, I agree.

But it's so— I've spent When she was pregnant, I would buy her— I bought her this, like, I bought like a bulk case of it, and then every week I would give her like a present.

Wait, describe. What is it?

So it's— it sounds so dumb. The one that she liked was called Mini Brands, I think. And it's like any famous brand that you know of, like Coca-Cola, KitKat, like any type of snack, but also like different products, uh, like a shoebox. They make just miniature versions, and you open up this small ball. It's like a baseball-sized thing and you open it up and inside there's like a variety of like 8 different mini things and people just love, I guess, looking at them. I don't even understand what the appeal is, but I have— it's weird. Steph seems like someone who's into like this mini shit.

By the way, this is Zuru. So this is that same guy, Nick Mowbray, that we talked about on the podcast, the toy mogul, who, by the way, he said he wants to come on. So we should hit him up and get him on. But They're, it looks like they're the makers of this, this mini brand.

Is it called Mini Brands?

Yeah, Mini Brands.

It's, and it's really expensive. They're expensive.

Are they edible or are these fake?

No, no, no. It's just like a, it, it looks like, imagine a KitKat bar, but just like the size of a penny. That's all it is.

It's just small. It's just mini and excellent.

I have had this theory for a long time that anything mini just works. Um, like I remember in science class, there was like a mini beaker. And everybody used to fight over it. And I was like, what? That holds less. And nobody wanted to hear me. I was like, no, but that holds less stuff. And, uh, but everybody wanted to have the tiny thing. And I was like, what's going on here? Um, there is something to this, like either overly large, like kind of like the LoveSac, like either like an overly large thing or a completely tiny thing is just like one way to make a product more appealing.

There's a YouTube channel called Jenny's Mini Cooking Show. That's the one I remember from years ago where I was like, people will just watch this person cook, cook these quote meals for hamsters and they'll do the whole thing. They'll have like a tiny little knife and cut the pizza and the cake and serve it on the tiny plate. People love this stuff.

Yeah. And I can't, I make fun of these people, but one time I ordered a, uh, a birthday cake that was, it was a Reese's peanut butter cup that was actually the size of a birthday cake. So I just like bigger things, but I understand like, which sounds awesome, right? Like you're not You're not— you're gonna—

yeah, so like right now I should make like the Cybertruck Mini basically is like the thing I should do. I should make like the really tiny Cybertruck that can just park in your garage and that's it.

Yeah, it's weird, man. It's weird. We're freaks.

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What do you guys want to do next?

Uh, let's do the sports one. What's the sports data?

So there's this website, um, that aggregates a bunch of reports on sports, which obviously, uh, people love. Americans love sports. Um, so they have like a state of pickleball report, uh, state of the industry report. These cost money.

Um, so what is the state of pickleball? Should we go into that?

Yeah.

What the, the burning question in all of our minds, what is the state of pickleball?

Um, but what I did find was this article that basically aggregated some data from this and it— don't open it because I want, I want you guys to guess what the fastest growing sports are. The 25 fastest growing sports according to, um, this SFIA research, which is the Sports and Fitness Industry Association. What do you guys think were the top fastest growing sports in America?

I already opened it. And I could tell you I wouldn't have guessed one of them.

I already opened it as well, so the game is over. But I would've said pickleball and I would've said that game Padel. Isn't there like another game that's just like pickleball, but it's for people that are, they want to be like, no, pickleball's old. This is the new shit. Like there's like two of them. That's what I would've guessed. It does seem like pickleball's number one, but number two, I would've never guessed Alpine Touring. I don't even know what that really is.

I think it's just like off off-country skiing. Um, and then I have never heard of— what is winter fat biking?

It's awesome is what it is.

It's like, so sounds like something I need to research. What is this?

These fat tire bikes are, are really popular right now. So it's basically a bike with a, just a really fat tire is what it is. And they, they are, they're sick looking. You see 'em ride by and, but is this a sport? You know, Yeah, it's just mountain bike riding, but the tire is particularly fat. It, it, it's all it is. You know, we, what do we say? We like big and small things. It's just a normal bicycle with a fat tire that can like, imagine a bicycle that could drive on a beach.

Got it. But I guess, I guess it's a sport. Um, number 4, off-course golf. Interesting.

I don't even know what that is.

I, when I Googled it, it, I think it's just those machines. But I guess they've turned that into a competitive sport or—

and then number 7 is trail running. I could definitely see that. That is the— I, I've, I get so many videos on my Instagram of trail running.

Yeah, dude, I was at a dinner and somebody said something as a joke and I put up my finger to my lips and I said, shh, I need to write this down because it was an incredible idea. The guy goes, you put his, you put your finger on his lips and then my own lips back and forth. And, um, I was like, say no more. I don't want to lose this idea. Let me write this down. He said something. He goes, yeah, I do the suburban triathlon. And I go, what? And he goes, yeah, suburban triathlon. You walk a half mile to this bar, you drink 2 beers, and then you go play 9 holes of golf. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, it's the suburban. I forgot. He said suburban Ironman or the suburban triathlon. And I was like, this has legs. And I, I really think that if somebody created some kind of, um, thing for, you know, out of shape middle-aged guys to do, they'll do it. And I think if you make it, if you brand it almost like as the, uh, the non-fit person triathlon, and it's gotta have like some version of eating and drinking being one of the legs, um, you know, a couple holes of golf as one of the other legs. And then you can really pick whatever you want as the third. But dude, that's the next Tough Mudder. I think that could be a massive, a massive trend that people start doing because it's kind of fun. It's ironic and it's, it might be pickleball as the third one actually. That's probably the right bet. But this is, this is definitely something that I think would appeal to people. What do you guys think?

Yeah. Yeah. And that's beautiful branding. That's the brand.

We're working backwards from the brand. We really don't even know actually what goes underneath.

It's just the, the idea of the Suburban Triathlon that I could, that, that deserves you putting your finger on his lips and then just, just kissing him. Just give him a little kiss. Like, I love you. That's beautiful. Yeah.

It's like you bike to the grocery store, you chug a beer, and then you like, I don't know, run an errand. And that's the Suburban Triathlon. And you gotta do it on Saturday mornings.

Steph, what's, what's another one?

Gotta give a shout out to Paki McCormick. He aggregated this and he aggregated this from a site called Tech Novelgy, which is one of these sites where I'm just like, I can't believe someone created this. Um, I think his name is Bill Christensen or something like that. Um, who basically took all of the sci-fi novels that have been written, or most of them, thousands, and he put them on a site called Tech Novelgy. And what Paki did is he took this kind of very outdated HTML site that's hard to navigate and he put it into this database. You guys click the link, you'll see it, and you'll see that there's this first page that is just, just a sci-fi stats. So it basically takes all the ideas, so not just the books, but the ideas within these, uh, sci-fi novels and says, does it exist today? Were these ideas in bits or atoms? And then it also breaks down things like for certain authors, let's say they had like in some cases, like Asimov had, I think like 99 ideas. How many of those ideas actually came to be? So you can kind of get a sense of like how, uh, how grounded certain authors were.

Let's do some examples. So I'm on the idea bank, row 194. It says, uh, in 1911, the author Hugo Gernsback predicted telemotor coasters, and these were powered skates for personal transport. Wheelies, basically. Or like that one viral video that went— the video that went viral of people walking, but with these like power skates that were making them go way faster.

Yeah, exactly. So there's like, they basically break down thousands of ideas in this database. And then they say, if it was created, and you can see in, yeah, the Sci-Fi Idea Bank tab. In column, uh, J, you can see what year it was first made. And then, um, you can see things like Google, right? Or credit cards, when they first appeared in these sci-fi novels. So for example, the credit card was first referenced in 1888, but credit cards like Visa and MasterCard weren't actually created until the 1950s. Or live news in 1889. And then, you know, it took until the 1980s for 24-hour live news. To actually be a thing. And it's kind of interesting because now you look at all these things like credit cards or live news and you think, of course, right? Like, of course that exists. That doesn't sound like sci-fi. But then you can extrapolate that and probably deduce that many of the things that sound like sci-fi today or even 50 years ago likely will follow that same fashion. And so I like going through this database because there are still many things that still fit in that category of not yet created, but dreamt up.

Yeah. So we can create electric rollerblades that just revolutionize the way we get hit by cars. Right. Uh, what are examples of things that, that you're interested in on this?

Yeah. So, I mean, some of these are certainly at the point where they're becoming real, but for example, in 1897, uh, someone dreamt up a non-alcoholic beverage similar to wine in 1897. As well, um, electric bicycles, which are now a reality, but I think becoming way, way, way cheaper and way more important. Um, vat-grown meat in 1984, um, which is another thing coming online. But I think what's equally interesting is to consider some of the major tech trends like AI, like some of the stuff happening, happening in biotech, some of the stuff happening in space, all of those trends kind of intersecting. And you, you can ask the question whether some of the things that you see that again, sound way more sci-fi than something like an electric bicycle. May actually be a reality. So I think like an example of a company that maybe fits this bill is Varda, right? They're manufacturing drugs in space, which I think almost certainly a decade ago would have sounded crazy.

What's Varda doing?

They're manufacturing drugs in space.

Why? Great question.

Yeah. Question I think we all have in our mind.

What's wrong with doing it in like Massachusetts?

Like, I imagine Sam in the pitch meeting. They're like, okay, hear me out. Drugs in space. What about Massachusetts? So my understanding is that the way that some of these drugs are manufactured, the physics when you're on Earth due to gravity and some of the other forces that don't exist in space results in you not being able to create certain chemical structures. And that impacts the way that drugs can be basically ingested or, uh, administered. And so there's that, I guess, immediate function of being able to create almost like drugs that exist today, but in different structures. But then there's the obvious future opportunity where you're then creating completely new compounds that could not be manufactured on Earth.

Did those guys raise a lot of funding?

I believe so.

That's wild. What a— that, yeah, that's beyond what I— that's beyond my, my IQ. That's just pretty amazing.

Yeah. There's like a list of ideas that were definitely started on like an ayahuasca trip and this is one of them.

Yeah.

Uh, well, whenever I see these lists, I just think of like, have you— I'm not like, I'm not into like wizards and Game of Thrones and all that stuff. You know, what do I say? I say I play sports. I don't, I don't read Harry Potter. But, uh, I do like appreciate the fact that one woman just sat down and created this whole, this whole world to the point where there's like, like we talk about Quidditch, we're like, that's just like a part of like a relatively small part of this whole universe. This lady just thought up and it is actually kind of been crazy, crazy to actually see some of these predictions. And it's in a weird way, it's inspiring to think that an imagination can do this. And I do actually feel. Pretty psyched up looking through this and being like, damn, I'm thinking way, way small and not into the future enough. So I understand that. I think it's actually pretty cool.

I just spotted in row 3,543 in 2003, smart wallpaper. So Sam, maybe that's coming your way next pod.

Yeah.

So I'll look less pale. Uh, all right. You want to do another one?

Next goldmine. So I love this one, our world in data. Um, so people have maybe heard of this website. It's a website that tries to aggregate data that, um, is a reflection of, of what's really happening in the world. So it includes things like, um, data on poverty. It includes really niche things. Like I found, I went through the website and there was a graph that related to the day of the year with peak cherry tree blossoms in Kyoto, right? So like when, when the, um, cherry blossoms peak the most, like so random, but they're collecting data on this. And I checked this website a few years ago, and I want to say there was maybe 200 graphs on here. And if you go to their ourworldindata.org/charts page, I want to say there's thousands of different data points now. Um, and so I wanted to call out a few that I thought were interesting, but I guess, what do you guys think? Isn't this crazy? That there's so much data being collected.

I just clicked on one. It's adjusted net savings per capita from 1970 to 2020. And you could see like how much per capita a variety of countries are saving. It's pretty wild. Congo and Portugal, not saving a lot of money. Germany and France, really great savers. So like, it's just like literally thousands of like different charts. You know, Sean talks about these like one-chart businesses. I can't think of anything for this chart, but there's like many of these charts where you can see something and just spot interesting things.

One of them is this, uh, population of the world distribution. So basically this is a chart that is looking at how many of all the people in the world, how many are young right now, meaning under 15, how many are working age, 15 to 65, and how many are elderly, 65 plus. And the shocking thing about this chart, this is a one chart, this is a one chart business right here, which is the elderly curve goes from today, right? Like kind of like the 2020, early 2020s where it's under 1 billion. It's by far the lowest, you know, the smallest line to it's going to cross over the young population and be at, you know, by the end of the, where this has it projected 2.5 billion. And so that's the biggest grower, the working, the working age one kind of flattens out, the young one kind of goes down, and the elderly one has this huge spike. And so if you're building anything that's in the elder care that you're going to own for, let's say, 10, 20 years, you have this immense tailwind behind you, which is just that the population of people who fit, you know, the customer base is going to grow dramatically. We're going to go from under 1 billion people to over 2.5 billion people. That are in that market. And so that's a, it's, you know, a case to say, you know, if you go there, let's say, let's say it's like real estate. Like if you owned, you know, senior living facilities or something like that, you would be able to just benefit from the fact that, oh, occupancy is going to go up over time in this, in this way. Now, of course, technology may, may, may completely upend things and AI and all that, but it is a very, you could see these like huge trends that are going to be very hard to reverse. So, uh, it's hard to imagine a scenario that we, we change the direction of these lines. It would take like a whole societal shift, population-level shift, to change where these lines are going.

Did you guys see the video of, uh, it was Kim Jong-un, the, uh, the North Korean leader. He was delivering this speech this week where he was like pleading and begging, uh, his, his people to start having sex and having babies because their population is just dwindling. And he's literally crying, like you see tears coming down his face, crying. And the rest of the audience is crying and he's begging them, please have babies. It's really, it was really fascinating. And pretty much like this, though, eh? Yeah.

I thought it was just crying in front of a man crying in front of you, begging you to have children.

It's not working.

I mean, just light some candles and put on some, uh, some R. Kelly and it'll get it done.

Uh, yeah. I mean, it was crazy. I guess, I guess I didn't realize it's funny, I'm looking at this chart and seeing his video. I didn't realize how big of a problem it is, but there's so many here. Which ones stick out to you, Steph?

So I just linked another one that I think, again, is this like one chart, um, business. This one's hard to get involved with, but I think it's, it, it's the lithium production. If you pull that up, I just linked it in the document and you can see that lithium production, which obviously is the core ingredient in many of our batteries. Is concentrated in just a few countries. A lot of it's in China. A lot of it's in a few countries in South America. That's another example of just as you're browsing through a bunch of these, these charts, I think that one jumps out, but the one I wanted to dive into in depth is air pollution. So if you click the, the, the stat, uh, in here in our document that says air pollution is one of the world's leading risk factors for death. Which maybe is obvious to some people, but to me, when I think about, it's like, what are, what are the key causes of death? What am I afraid of? Air pollution is not at the top of that list. However, um, I also stumbled upon Patrick Collison's pollution page. He's got a bunch of cool pages on his website. He's got a page with just a bunch of questions. Uh, one of them's on pollution and he says that the World Bank indicates that 3.7 billion people, so about half the world's population, are exposed to this metric, um, of PM2.5— that, that has to do with like the size of particles, uh, in the air— they're exposed to around 5 times the, the unit of measure that he correlates with a bunch of things, which include, uh, lower GDP, it includes, uh, stock market returns being lower, uh, people making worse decisions like chess players, uh, making mistakes, politicians using less less complex speech. So those are just, you know, some fun facts. But I think what's, what's really important is obviously the, the health side of things. And there's another stat, um, that I'll just quickly share, which is, uh, from a newsletter called Charter, which says that India's capital, um, this was recently breached the 450 mark on the air quality index, over 4 times the healthy level. Um, and basically they're in this hazardous zone, which is akin to smoking 25 to 30 cigarettes a day. And obviously that is an outlier, but I wanted to call this out because I think air quality is something that, um, is, is a problem in a lot of places, clearly, some more than others. But it's something that I think people are going to be caring about a lot more. And maybe one, one product that came out in the last year or so that's indicative of that, that a lot of people made fun of, uh, was the Dyson mask headphones. So I'll stop there.

What were those?

Yeah, I never saw those.

They are headphones that have a, uh, basically a mask, an air purifier attached to them.

Wow. And they're expensive. They're $1,000, I think, right?

They are $700 from what I can see.

And what, this came out and people just made fun of them? Well, if you, if you Google images, it's like a white guy in like the New York subway wearing it. You know what I mean? So like, it's a little off on— because you're talking about India and, uh, a few other countries, not maybe the New York subway. So it's kind of like a— it's kind of like a misleading ad they have. But that's pretty fascinating. Is this— are these taking off?

No, I think they're in that zone of a lot of people making fun of them. However, the reason I'm calling this out is because I think there is this understanding that, you know, it's just in New Delhi, it's not you know, anywhere close to home. But I think, have you guys ever used like an air quality index measure in your home or like a CO2 monitor?

Yeah, I have multiple times and I bought like these air purifier things that also measure the air quality in my house and I have them and it's like shocking whenever it'll like, it basically turns red and it's like, oh God, there's something going on. You know what, we need to air this place out or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, air quality changes over time and I don't know, I've been noticing more even in San Francisco a few days where people are like, oh, I'm, I'm wearing a mask to work, not cuz of COVID but because like, oh gosh, like I, have you checked the air quality? And a lot of people aren't doing this still today, but I think that'll change. And I think if you use some of these, like the CO2 monitor, for example, you literally, like if you go to bed with your door closed and you wake up and you check that thing, it is wild, um, how high it is. And You know, all you need to do is open a window or, you know, circulate the air in your home. But I think as the stuff, um, I guess is people are more educated on it. I think some of these devices like the air quality monitors are going to take off and you can see some of this data in Jungle Scout as well of just like the kinds of products that people are buying.

Do you see, uh, what did you see anything in Jungle Scout that stood out? Any product that's—

okay, so there's one product which is, uh, has to do with, uh, an AC furnace and an air filter. Um, but guess how much this thing sells every single month?

What is it?

It's an AC furnace air filter and an air quality monitor.

And so what does that mean? Literally, like the filter I put on the vents of my, like, like I've got like 8 vents around my home and I put these like filters there. Is that what you're referring to? Like those, like the cloth almost filters?

You, it's a filter you would put on your, on your, um, Furnace.

Got it.

Okay.

All right.

So what I'm looking at here is, yeah, like the kind of standard air vent filters that you have to swap out every, whatever, 6 months or so. But also it's a smart one. So it has like a monitor associated with it that has an app. This thing costs $250. Yeah, I have no idea, but I, you know, sounds like it might be a little high. So tell us what's the— what does Jungle Scout tell us for the revenue?

So I'm seeing 4 entries in Jungle Scout and they are $17 million, $12 million, $8 million, and $8 million. So what does that all total? That's like over $40 million per month. This is what Jungle Scout is saying. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt. I'm not sure how they measure, but, um, they tend to be pretty accurate. And so that's an example of, I think, as people, again, like try to understand the air quality around them, I think there's a, there's a growing business here.

That is fascinating. I want to point out another thing. So this, this chart that you have of like causes of death. So the top, let's see, risk factors. I think I might have chosen the United States here, but in the United States, I believe the top ones are smoking, number one, high blood pressure, high blood sugar, and obesity. So I have a crazy story to tell you. So I can't say his name because he asked me not to, or he said he prefers to stay under the radar, but I have a friend who is an investor and he's a very different kind of investor. So what you see on Twitter often is people who are investors, they like to be loud about what they do. They'll just kind of spray and pray. They're doing a lot of deals. They love to be angels in 50 things, putting $20K checks. My friend is very different. He says that in every year there's like one thing that matters, maybe two. And his old job is to just find the one or two things that matter. And so I've known him for maybe 10 years now, and at one time it was like, he's like, Bitcoin, it's Bitcoin right now. And I was like, Bitcoin, really? Like, you sure? And this is like, let's say, I don't know, 2013, 2014, 2015, somewhere there. He's like, it's Bitcoin. And then he was the one who was like, OnlyFans, I'm all in on OnlyFans. And I was like, OnlyFans, what is that? This is before any of the revenue numbers had come out about OnlyFans. He's like, I think, and I was at Twitch at the time and he's like, OnlyFans is bigger than Twitch or it's going to be bigger than Twitch. And I was like, no dude, Twitch is like one of the biggest internet sites on earth. And he's like, trust me, it's going to be bigger. And he's like called it basically each year and he doesn't necessarily always get to invest, but he's trying to identify what is the thing.

Did he get in on those?

Yeah. So like for a couple of these, yeah, he's got the ones I've mentioned so far. He did. So then he, texted me the other day and he goes, GLP greater than GPT. So this is like, I talked to him maybe, I don't know, 9 months or a year ago and he was like, yeah, I think this Ozempic stuff is the thing for the year. And I was like, really? Like, isn't it AI? He's like, no, I think this, I think GLP is bigger than GPT. And I was like, well, what do you mean? He's like, I'm trying to figure out the right way to invest in this. 'cause they're all like basically Ozempic and the makers of these are all public stock. So he is like, I could buy that, but the upside's not exactly there. So I'm trying to figure out what's the move. And he told me, he's like, there was one company I invested in several years ago that might actually be a beneficiary of it. So yesterday he sends me an article, Carmot, this Carmo, this pharmaceutical company got bought for $3 billion yesterday and that they are a maker of GLP-1 drugs. He was an early investor in it. He invested in it like 7 years ago or something. And I was like, dude, how did you get in on this? He's like, well, at the time, this all wasn't clear. I can't say that I definitely didn't know about that, but it was, these guys were drug makers that were attacking obesity drugs in a different way. And just looking at the charts about what kills everybody, like the obesity is a massive, massive problem. There's not that many interesting bets of who's attacking obesity in a different way. These guys were one of them and I liked their team and whatnot. So I invested early on and I was like, geez, man, like just to have like a $3 billion exit out of nowhere, kind of amazing.

What do you think his return on that was?

I don't want to say, but you know, he got in fairly early and $3 billion's a big number. So I think he did extremely well on that one. But I will, what I will say is that he kind of looks at these like mega trends and this is kind of what you're showing here, Steph, is that If you understand how big the wave is, then it kind of simplifies life. You can ignore all small waves if you know what the mega, you know, the big tidal waves are and you just figure out, okay, what's the best way to surf this? And even if you don't figure out the best way, even the fourth best way to surf a megatrend is going to work in your favor. And I've heard this now from a few investors, but also Mark Zuckerberg said this a while back. Like I remember when we were, We were working on some app that was like a messaging app, like text messaging app. And this was maybe 2015 or something. And it seemed like text messaging was the big thing. And Zuck came out and he goes, there's only a few megatrends. Mobile was the last one. And then the new one is video. He goes, video is a megatrend. Everything is moving to video. People are kind of going to communicate through video. They're watching more and more video, short video, long video, medium-sized video, scripted videos, UGC videos. It's all going to video. And I had never heard anyone say this, this word megatrend. And when Zuck said that, I started to pay attention. And we actually ended up pivoting our company into video streaming, live video. We were like, oh, we'll go for live video. And, uh, that's the company that got bought by— when we got acquired by Twitch is because we were just partially in the right space, like live video streaming. There weren't that many people working on it in an interesting way, but live video kept growing, kept growing, kept growing at this like really fast rate. And so it was smart to get out of the tech game and get on the right megatrend.

Yeah. You know, something I'll mention about the air quality stuff that's related to what you said there, Sean, is I feel like one missing gap with air quality, uh, readings and devices and all that is it's not obvious. As in, I feel like most people would be surprised to be like, oh my gosh, I inhale all this stuff and it has these adverse effects. And it's, you know, it ranks here on, you know, the, the likelihood of death, but it's not obvious. It's not in your face. Like, let's say, like the GLP-1s, people see themselves every day and they're constantly trying to improve their image and how other people interpret them. So I think maybe one thing that if someone was going to go figure this out, you guys have talked about the air, the water filters. People go into your home and they say, like, did you know, like, you're drinking like this much of, of like, basically like rocks and other sediment and lead in your, your water. Can you believe it? And they show you. And so I feel like there's an element of that where as it's going to take a while for people to really care about the air quality stuff, but there may be some middle ground where some company is able to effectively give people that aha.

Yeah, I would put it differently. I don't think it's going to take a while. I think it's going to take a marketer for people to care. It's just going to take a marketer and a product design that puts it in your face and that educates you about this and kind of scares you about it. But then says, don't worry, there's a solution. And that's how a lot of things get done is, you know, a great marketer or product designer figures out the way to put it in your face.

Did you guys remember what Rob Dyrdek said? So Rob Dyrdek came on and he didn't spend too much time talking about this, but he said he bought a good chunk of a company that is doing water filters for showers. And I've got a bunch of friends that are like health freaks. So Justin Meyers is, is one of them where he's, a health freak and he's a great entrepreneur. And he was like, man, I installed this really expensive, basically Berkeley filter, which is that big metal. It's like those metal jugs that you see in people's homes. And he's like, I wanted to install one for my whole home because I wanted my shower water to also be completely filtered. And I went through this whole ordeal to do this. And then Rob Dyrdek invested in this company that is basically making a showerhead that is a filter. So it's ideally simplifying that entire process. He talked about that on this podcast, but he didn't spend too much time talking about it. And I went and researched a bit of it. I think that is going to be a pretty big company. And I think there's going to be a whole— I imagine it's going to be like a boxed mattress trend where no one has them. And then suddenly many people have them and there's tons and tons of competition because I don't think that's quite that hard of a company to create. I don't know what the moat is entirely, but I imagine there's going to be a whole bunch of people in that space. And so I'm, I'm pretty much on board with, with what he said. And I think you have an interesting insight with the, uh, particularly with the AC vents. That's another product that literally everyone has in their home. You have to replace it 2 or 3 times a year. And it's a really, really easy Instagram ad to make.

All right, let's move. Let's go to the next one. What else you got?

All right. Next one in here is Gadget Flow. So this is just an interesting site, uh, that aggregates gadgets. Um, friending gadgets. Uh, I want to call it two things here. The first is if you look at the most popular gadgets, you might say, well, what's the opportunity here? Right? Like, I'm not going to create a drone like DJI. I'm not going to create the next AR/VR device. Apple's doing that. Meta's doing that. Like, there's no opportunity. I just wanted to call out that every time there's a new device that ends up penetrating a lot of people's homes or wallets. Uh, there's almost always an opportunity for accessories. Um, so a good example that we covered years ago, Sam, on Trends was, uh, AirPods.

And you have got a crazy stat on that. You've got a crazy AirPods stat.

It was, this was forever ago. I wonder what it is now. But back then it was like early on in the AirPod journey and it was like AirPods, if it was a standalone company, would be in the Fortune 50 or something like that. And I was like, whoa, whoa.

I think your stat was like AirPods make more revenue than like Spotify, Snapchat, and Airbnb combined.

Yeah, I think Twitter was— it was— yeah, and that was again, that was in 20— I want to say 2019 or 2020. Um, and so now there's some crazy stats with AirPods, which is just like 70% of all US teens have AirPods. Like, that is like true penetration. Um, and so early on in that trend, it's like, okay, there's like cases, there's, um, I'm trying to remember, like keychains, really simple stuff. But I think what, uh, is worth just understanding or what you can take away from this Gadget Flow website is like, okay, what are the newest, um, devices that are not going to have the scale of like hundreds or thousands of people using them, but millions or hundreds of millions? And what are the adjacent accessories or products that I can create?

So how do you, How do you use Gadget Flow?

So Gadget Flow is not as much of like, you know, a searchable database like something like Jungle Scout, but, um, it's more so just what I would do if I came to this page is first I would look at the dropdown of most popular, right? So that's where you're going to see some of those big devices. And then the other takeaway is some of the dropdown categories, I think. So the one that caught my eye was pet accessories. Um, so remember Gadget Flow is like all tech devices. And so if you go to pet accessories, um, there's a bunch of different things. I guess you both, uh, have owned dogs. I've never owned a, owned a dog, but, uh, I wonder if you're familiar with any of these devices. And in particular, there was one that I noticed. Um, have you guys heard of, um, FluentPet?

No. What's that?

No. What is it?

It is this, uh, really interesting trend of these buttons. FluentPet is a particular brand that I think is going pretty viral because of one account, this dog called I Am Bunny. This account has, I think, a million followers on Instagram. And it's basically these buttons where you can— I don't know how, like, how well this works for all dogs, but you can kind of teach them to communicate with you. by pushing these buttons to indicate what they want.

And I've seen these and it's, and it is actually really cool. So the way it looks is it looks like a, uh, so it looks like a, imagine like a, like a Twister pad and each color has a button on it. And the one button means bathroom, one button means food, one button means this other thing. And you could train your dog to click a button to do what it, to tell you what they want. It's actually really cool.

What?

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I've seen these and I, we trained our dog how to do that where like he, like I, I could tell what he wanted based off of a handful of activities that we would teach him how to do. This is actually really cool.

Yeah.

My dog is way too dumb for this, but this is awesome. By the way, yesterday I took my dog out to, I took my kids to gymnastics and we brought the dog. And so all these kids love to come pet the dog and this kid comes up probably like, I don't know, 7 years old or something. He goes, oh, your dog's so cute. And I was like, thank you. I was like, you want to pet?

He's like, yeah.

He goes, uh, what's her name? And I go, yeah, her name's Bunsley. He goes, oh, why didn't you give her a better name? And I was like, okay, maybe I— and I was like, I didn't know how to respond. I was like, man, I just got owned by this little kid. What are you supposed to say to that? Why didn't you give her a better name? Like Rosalina? Yeah. It's like, oh my God, what if I was, I was, it's like I got a jab in the nose.

Sean, did you name the dog?

I did name the dog.

Yes. What was the answer?

I just thought it was a very regal sounding name.

I think your definition of regal and everyone else's definition is a little bit different.

Like a butler. I don't know. Like, oh, Bunsley.

Steph, are you just— what are you doing all day? Are you just clicking through all these? I mean, you probably have 100 or 50 different links here. Are you just clicking through this stuff all day?

Tabs are open right now, uh, I want to say 35. So, and are you going to go through those or you're just a hoarder?

There's an order. There's like the Jungle Scout tabs grouped together, the like SimilarWeb tabs grouped together. Um, I don't know. I mean, I think So I will spend time every so often just like going through these websites and like scouring for ideas. But I think there are a few newsletters and things that I pay attention to that kind of surface ideas that I then, if I find them interesting, will go and check them, you know, in SimilarWeb or Jungle Scout or whatever.

And I know you're at A16z now, and I, I presume you're happy, but inevitably one day you're gonna go and you're gonna start a company. I, that you have it in you. I, I think you're going to do that. What do you think it will be? Which category? Because you, you've seen all this data, you look at all this data. What, what's going to interest you whenever you do it?

Well, I don't want to share the ideas that I actually want to pursue soon because—

which category?

Um, you could say games. Um, or I like the idea of, you know, people we've talked about before, someone, if you guys remember, Neil Agrawal. Neil. Fun.

Um, yeah, great, great website.

You know, part of me, we talk about these big ideas like AI and biotech and it's all very interesting and, you know, someone please go become the air quality, uh, marketer that we all need. But part of me just wants to create things that I wish I saw on the internet or I wish existed on the internet that aggregates some of these ideas or gets people to learn things in ways that they never thought of before. Um, and so I kind of just want to be— this is too, too silly of a term for this, but like an artist, like an internet artist, if that makes sense.

Are you—

and you work at an investor now. Is this something that you'd raise money for or you'd want to do all, all on your own?

I'd do it on my own.

You wouldn't raise money?

I don't think it's the kind of— it's not a VC. Internet artist? Who's gonna— they're gonna be like, do they have those in Massachusetts?

Like, all right, well, I'm just curious.

Like Peter Wells is like the internet, like the, the Banksy of internet art right now, right? Like he's, he's kind of one of those guys.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think you will do that. I'm, I'm eager to see when you, when you finally do do it. I think you're gonna do really well in it.

Well, they have her trapped because I saw her do something yesterday that made me just shake my head. She tweeted out, who's got the best company swag in the world? A backpack and like a koozie and like a water bottle that all said X, Y, and Z on it. And no doubt they were beautiful products. It's great to get free stuff, but that's how they get you, Steph. I was like, no, they're wrapping their tentacles around you. You know, what's the two most addictive things in the world? Heroin and a monthly salary. Well, third is free swag.

Yeah, they don't even— you don't even have golden handcuffs. You have a black umbrella. That's what they did for you.

The internet artist that I want to follow, that I admire, does not fall into the traps of company swag.

In fact, they reject company swag.

They reject company swag. When I saw you post that, I was like, oh no, she's, she's in too deep. It's like an Inception. We need to wake her up. She's so far. She's in level 3 of Inception and, uh, we got to snap her out of this.

Well, I mean, I am human. I am convinced by free stuff.

It looks like they got you with a book bag and an umbrella and a poncho. That's what— that's what it sounds like. Yeah.

So for all the people who have previously tried to approach me, that's all you need. Just send me a backpack and a poncho and—

well, I, I'm eager to see you start a company. Where do you want to go from here, Sean?

Uh, yeah, I think we— well, let's wrap it up. But Steph, where can people get more of like this type of stuff specifically? So like you have this very unique method to your madness that you, you know, you know these nooks and crannies. You're like those people where you go to a city and you're like, I really wish I just knew kind of like what to, what tourist traps to avoid, what good places to go, what's the best place to eat. Oh, she knows this hole in the wall where you can enter through the, through the chef's kitchen and blah, blah, blah. You're like that for the internet. So, um, how can people get more of that?

Yeah. So like you said, it's my 7th time on My First Million, which is kind of crazy. And ever since the first few where I'd come with these docs and you guys would be very nice and, and hype up the doc and say, oh my gosh, so crazy. There's so much info in here. I constantly get people reaching out asking. For those docs and, you know, an aggregation of all the websites that I visit and how to use them and how to internet sleuth. Um, or I like the term to use the internet pipes. Um, so I'm putting together something, I don't know what to call it. Maybe you guys can help me with it that aggregates these internet pipes and shows people how to use them. Um, so I think the only thing I've done is aggregate them and then buy the domain internet pipes. Uh, but I think, uh, by the time this episode goes live, I'll probably have some sort of like presale up on that page if people are interested.

What are you gonna charge for it?

Okay. If you guys have a minute, I want, I want your opinion cuz I think I'm gonna do something wrong here.

Don't, just don't use the C word. You can't say course. You have to call it something else. Like a re— I don't know. You gotta use ChatGPT, but something involving the word research, I'd imagine.

There was this one guy that used to really, he had a lot of knowledge. He read a lot of books. He had a Lamborghini in his garage and he too had a course.

Oh wow.

Uh, so maybe you can, Take his blueprint. He had a good one.

I mean, so I don't know what I'm going to call it. I don't like the idea of it being a course because I don't, I want it to just be like a resource that people go to and it's not like a, it's not like a teachable course or something like that. But what do I charge for something like that? I, when I did my book, I did this like tiered pricing scheme where it started at $10 and then it went up for every like 30 or 50 sales. But I have no, I feel like I'm gonna end up charging too little.

What was that called?

It's called Doing Content Right.

So Doing Content Right. Sean, tell me what you would've done in this situation. So Steph worked at my company. Yeah. And she was talented at it. She was talented. She worked at my company while she was doing this. And I remember Steph, someone came to me and they're like, do you care that Steph is doing this and launching this content book? And I was like, no, why, why should I care? Would you have cared, Sean? And I think Steph, you made, I don't know, you could say what you made, but you made great money. You maybe made more than that than we were paying.

Yeah.

You mean, did, did you make more doing the book than I paid you?

Um, maybe in the first year.

And Sean, what would you have said if your employee was doing this? Would you have been pro or anti?

Uh, yeah, I would have been pro. I mean, it's fine. Like I have no problem with that. I would have had a conversation just to be like, cool, where are we going with this? Like, what's the, where does this live in your life? Is this like. Fun side project? Is this what you actually want to go do? Then maybe I can help you go do that in a, in more, like, I just kind of want to know where that lives. And I just, you know, obviously, you know, for you, Steph was like a star performer. So, you know, stars get like more rope to go do things. If you're like, if you are doing a mediocre job and then you got this side hustle, that's the final straw for me, right? Like I, then you're not putting your energy kind of towards actually getting a good outcome, but Steph was crushing it. So, you know, she was doing a good job.

So I don't think, We were pretty encouraging of people to do stuff unless they were screwing up. I don't know if we ever lost an employee because of their side thing, but I think like that was pre-Twitter getting popular like it is. I think in the future I maybe wouldn't have encouraged it, and that, that's kind of fucked up, but I don't know if I would've encouraged it, but I did encourage it back then.

Well, that's what I mean by I want to know where it lives in your life, meaning if this is kind of what you really want to do, then let's just be honest about it. Like, let's just have the honest conversation and we can figure out like what's the right pathway forward. And if you're like, I just want to make a little bit of extra money, we could talk about like, hey, if you just did XYZ here, you can make that, you know, you don't have to start a separate business, right? If that's the motivation. If you're just like, oh yeah, I just use this for serendipity and networking and I just kind of like to put stuff out there on nights and weekends, like this is my hobby. Like that's what I told people when I was doing things. I'd say, You know, business is my hobby. So like, you know, for you, when you log off work, you might go to CrossFit or you might go play golf or what, like what I do is I read, I write, I make things. That's what I like to do on the internet. And so, you know, this is just me doing that hobby. You know, you, you do taekwondo or whatever you do. And, uh, I think there's just some people that are like that. You gotta, you gotta let them spread their wings.

I mean, I think also to your point, Sean, it depends. Is this like an ongoing thing forever? You're gonna be writing, you know, doing a course every quarter and it's gonna take up all your time. I intentionally with this project, partially cuz I didn't want it to last forever, but partially also cuz it's just my psychology to like get something done and out there was like, I think I compressed it until like a 6-week thing and I was like, this is all, this is the only time I'm gonna allocate to this. Um, and I feel like for this, this new project that I'm launching too, I, it's kind of the same thing where it's like, I don't want to be like doing a course forever and people checking in with me and have this, I, I just have this like little burst of like creativity. I need to get something out there to exist and then that's it.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, your question was what would you, what should you charge for it? I don't think this is going to make a ton of money because the, who's the type of person that wants to, who's the type of person that wants to buy this is somebody like you. So there's not that many people that are like you that are like, hey, I just have some disposable income that I'm going to use so that I can have better internet. Random research tools and, and like ability to lurk and just find interesting things on the internet. I think those are awesome people, but there's not, it's not like mass market, right? So you either got to charge a bunch or you go the other way and you charge very little, but you use, you get the value in a, in a separate way. Like for you, what I would be doing is I would use this as a honeypot to attract a bu— like the type of person that's going to pay even $99, whatever, $100 a year. To have access to this database is like somebody that you would want to go hang out with for 3 hours, most likely. Right. And so I would just use it as like, the value isn't going to come from the direct monetization of this asset, but from the little community you build and then the interesting either investments you get out of it or, you know, introductions or opportunities or the company you started someone from this. That's, I think, where you're going to get way more value than just trying to charge a premium for this for a person.

Yeah, but it'll pay for her monthly expenses. This, you're doing content right, plus a new thing, you'll make $25,000 a month, I think.

We'll see.

Yeah, but like, your needs are covered, right? So like, you know, one way, one thing I think about a lot is like, um, you know, more of the same keeps me where I am. So, you know, if I keep doing things that kind of keep me in the same level of the game, I'll never have the bandwidth to do whatever it's going to take to get me to the next level of the game. And so like, for example, I had a course that I was teaching maybe 5 to 10 days a year, not much. And it was making over $1 million a year. So that's an amazing like effort to payoff thing. And then I stopped and I was like, why? Because for me, making an extra $1 million a year is not going to get me to the next level of the game I'm trying to play at. So I was like, if I'm trying to get to the point where, let's just say, let's just make up a goal. Say I was trying to make I want to get to where I'm making $20 million a year. Okay, let's say that was the goal. Then I need to like have enough like room on my plate, just empty space that will like force me to go create the thing that gets me to the next level. Or I might give things away for free. In fact, if it's going to like create the serendipity that's going to take to like open up new opportunities that are bigger. And so that's just something to think about is like, how do you, It's, do you care about, uh, you know, maybe the next level of financial freedom of, of, you know, sort of wealth that will give you more runway, more ability to like use money to do shit, the shit you want, like the internet art type of thing. Um, and if you do, maybe you could use this as a tool to like get the right people around you and do something else. I don't know.

It's just more— I mean, one of the biggest learnings from the book was some people are like, oh, you're totally undercharging, but it's like, how do you deliver a product? At a price point that people are like so happy with that they go and share it and talk about it and also like, yeah, want to work with you and like actually digest the information instead of—

and requires no customer service.

Yeah, exactly. Where it's just like it runs itself. It markets itself. That's what ended up happening with the book. And so I am leaning more in that direction, but then I also, I was expecting you guys to be like, no, no, no, like charge more. Like you always undercharge, but I guess I guess maybe I should keep it low.

Well, like Tim Ferriss said something that changed my thinking on this. Tim Ferriss said, he goes, I had a strategy which was ultra free or ultra premium. He goes, I was going to give away 99% of what I do for literally for free because I'm trying to reach the broadest number of people possible and I want to over be overdelivering. I treat it like it's a paid product, but I deliver it for free to the masses because then on the one day, and he gives the example, he did a, this was back when he was doing 4-Hour Workweek and whatnot. So he's doing, uh, you know, his blogging for free, podcast for free. And then he said, hey, I'm doing a 2-day kind of like in-person workshop seminary thing.

That's that Open the Kimono thing or Open the Kimono.

Yeah, exactly. And I think he did $2 or $3 million in sales in like 30 minutes, right? Because people were like, I will pay $10,000. He was like, it's, it's expensive. I don't expect everybody to be able to afford this or want to. I'm not even going to promise anything. But if you're a fan of what I do, like I'm going to do this Open the Kimono thing. It's 2 days. And I think he made $2 to $4 million. On that day. And he's like, if I had been trying to like kind of charge along the way, like, let me do this little ebook for $9. Then let me do this like monthly subscription for maybe I can get $20 a month. He's like, I would have had a smaller audience and less money. And so, and same thing with his podcast ads. He's like, I would rather have no ad in the thing or charge an ultra premium to a premium brand because there's always room. He said, there's always a market for luxury, right? There's always a market for the absolute best. So I wanted to make the absolute best product and then charge the absolute, you know, best price I could for that. And that was like his strategy when it came to that. I think Alex Hormozi does a similar thing. So Hormozi's like, look, I could be trying to make a little bit of money here, a little bit of money there, do a course, do a seminar, do whatever. But he's like, no, no, no, I'm going to be really in your face that this stuff is normally what people charge for. I'm giving it to you for free. Builds a bunch of goodwill, builds a big audience, and then when he's ready to charge, he'll make all the money back and more when he finally does charge for the thing. In his case, it's a combination of acquisitions.com where he's like, I'm going to buy equity in your business at this like super, super sweetheart deal for him because he's built up so much goodwill and like reputation amongst his potential acquisition targets. Or if he ends up doing ever like a course or a seminar or a live in-person thing, He'll be able to charge $25,000 per person to get in and he'll make $10 million on one day because he's kind of built it that way.

Yeah.

So I think there's something to learn from these people that play the real long game.

Totally. I don't think I could charge $25K for anything, but we'll see. We'll see if I ever get there.

But, um, well, you do, you, you get paid more than that.

That's true. Yeah, that's true.

So I mean, you, you definitely do. Um, and you definitely can. I think that You will eventually, for sure.

Someone, by the way, I read the comments, um, and I read one from something, one of the episodes I was on ages ago, and someone wrote something like, wow, Steph has a really intense case of imposter syndrome. And I was like, oh, true. Um, anyway, I guess, uh, if people wanna find—

By the way, I'll tell you this now. You do. I remember when I was negotiating your salary when you first joined. And you asked for a number. I don't remember if I did this for you. It, we, uh, in particular, women would typically do this. They would say a number and I would say a number back, or I would just say a number to them and they would just accept it. And I would be like, hey, um, you should negotiate with me. Um, women in particular were horrible at pushing back on their salary, uh, for what they should ask for. And, you know, my company was small. We In aggregate, probably hired 75 people, but I noticed a small trend of women in particular did not push back nearly as hard as the men. There were many men that they would push back and it was laughable what they— I'm like, there's not a chance I'm going to give you this, but I guess I'll meet you somewhere in the middle to like adjust this. But like, this is crazy. I offered— I was thinking you were a $150,000 a year person. You're asking for $700,000. Like, that's just ridiculous. But I remember with you, Steph, You were way— we gave you a lot of bumps, I think, over the, over the, however long you worked with us. But you, you started way too low. Um, and I would encourage you to, maybe not for this product, but to definitely elevate what you should be demanding for pay. I, I think you're doing all right now, A16Z. Yeah. But that I've no— I've noticed that with you in particular amongst very, very, very smart and qualified young women.

Yeah. It took me around, what is it? So 21 to 28 when I— 28 or 29 when I joined a16z. So it took me like 7 years or so to actually learn to negotiate. So I agree.

Can I tell you, uh, an embarrassing version of imposter syndrome that I have, which is— it's not imposter syndrome, but it is what I call Michael Scott syndrome, where sometimes— I felt this for like 10 years. I always hire people that are like super smart. That's great up front, but the downside is sometimes you just feel like Michael Scott. You're like, oh, I'm the idiot in the office. And I'm telling these people I'm actually in their way. And these people are like, they're kind of looking at me like the way that Jim Halpert looks at, you know, Michael Scott. And I'm like, oh no, it's happening. That's that the Michael Scott thing is happening. Have you ever felt that?

Yes. I felt that way all the time. And then I realized that's actually, I felt that way for a long time. And then I realized, oh wait, no, that just means I'm good at hiring. Uh, so like, I should just get out of the way.

That's what Michael Scott would do.

He turns it into a compliment for himself. No, I felt that way too. I remember hiring people that were A, older than me, and B, smarter. And I'm like, what the fuck are these people? Did I really just convince this person? Did I just trick this person into coming and joining anything I'm doing? I feel horrible about that. I felt that same way.

We hired this one woman that's so good at what she does, um, in our e-commerce business. She's so fast, like literally so fast and hyperproductive. Like she gets the, like, she gets like 3 people's stuff done and in the same amount of a day. And she's the one who Michael Scotts me all the time. I'm like, I'll be telling her something in the meeting. I'll be like, yeah, let's follow up next week on that. And she's like, I already sent it out. And I'm like, while I was talking? But I was giving you such a good anecdote and metaphor and oh, you just like finished it. Oh, okay. I guess I could have shut up 5 minutes ago, huh? And I realized actually this is a great thing. Just like you said, Sam, it's not that I'm great at hiring. I said, now this is actually the bar. I only wanna hire people that make me feel like I'm Michael, I'm the Michael Scott of The Office. That's actually how it should feel when you're doing it right.

That's how it should feel. That means you're good at hiring. Now you just gotta get the hell out the way. You did the hard part and you're funny.

That's the other thing.

Yeah. I don't know about that.

Um, I'm just gonna quickly shout out if people wanna go find it, internetpipes.com. I guess we'll figure out the price. It'll be live when this goes live.

All right.

That's the pod, Steph. Thank you for doing this.