Cody Ko On Building A YouTube Empire, Partying With Elon & Stand-Up Comedy (#503)

What 3 creators do you see that you think could become billionaires? He said MrBeast, Dude Perfect, or something like that. And then he said you.

No way.

Cody Ko.

Cody Ko.

Cody Ko. Cody Ko.

Cody is popping off.

The algorithm has shined upon him. Cody is one of the biggest YouTubers on the platform. How did you get good at doing what you do?

If you go and listen to my first episode of my podcast, it was complete garbage. If I'm thinking about what makes a good podcast or what makes a good YouTube video or what makes a good song, song, the number one thing you can do is—

How much are you thinking about like the business side of—

of what— about being a billionaire? When I was younger, it was like literally just about the creative, but now that I'm getting older, it's like I want the business to succeed. And then he looks at his phone, he's like, Elon's been texting me. And then he showed us his phone, it was like Elon Musk, he was like, come over. He was like, should we go over to his house? Yeah, I mean, you can't really say no to that. And so we got in cars and drove to his house. We got to his house and him and Grimes are like standing on the driveway with lanterns was like, welcome to my house.

That's insane. What's he like?

Like, it was one of those things where we— By the way, I listen, I listen. This is like one of my favorite podcasts.

Oh, hell yeah.

So it's an honor to be on it. Right. Cause I, it's one of two that I listen to. That's nice.

And so I switched between you guys. That was amazing.

Yeah. No, I'm serious. So like when you hit me up, I was like, let's go. I mean, it's all in. Yeah, obviously.

But yeah, it's, um, they're good too. I like them too.

Yeah. So you guys just switch between you guys and How I Built This.

And you, so you listen to the pod, so you kind of know the vibe. And so I invited you to come on. Uh, did you think about like, what are we going to like, cause it's different than our normal episodes, right? First, Sam's not here. Second, you're like cool entertainment guy and we're usually like nerdy tech guys. Um, what'd you think was going to happen?

I don't know, but I like being the guest on a podcast is so much better than being the host of one, right? Because like, it's like, that's your—

right, I gotta drive.

Yeah, the pressure's on you. I can just sit here and answer questions. Yeah, yeah, good.

Okay, well, that's what we're gonna do. But the, the actually, the interesting thing is you actually started as kind of nerdy tech guy too. I did. Yeah, you were, uh, I think like an iOS dev.

Yep.

And let's start there. So the origin story is You, you go to Duke and you, you make a viral app at one point. I don't know if we were at school or right after school.

It was, it was during college.

During college.

I was.

What did it actually do? So I know it was called CapThat or iCapThat.

iCapThat.

iCapThat.

Yeah.

What was the app?

A very funny name, by the way.

Yeah.

So it was like I was a senior in college and I was on the diving team all 4 years, so I like didn't have like in the summers and stuff, I was just training. And so I never did an internship. I didn't have any resume by the time I was a senior. And all these, all my like peers were doing internships and they had jobs lined up for as soon as they graduated. I didn't, I had nothing. And that kind of scared me because I'm Canadian and I wanted to stay in the States. So I needed a visa, which means I needed a job. And I also just like needed money and stuff for when I graduated. I was like, what the fuck am I going to do? So I was studying computer science at that time and they didn't have an iOS class, but I was like, I was obsessed with my phone obviously. And I was like, I really want to know how to make an app. So I just bought a book, taught myself, and then like, you know, the way you really teach yourself something is you sure you can like read and watch YouTube videos, but like it's by, you know, thinking of a project and then trying to make it come to life. So that was my project. There was one that did something similar, but it was a paid app. and I was like, oh, this is a perfect opportunity because it's not a hard idea.

And what was the idea? So you're captioning?

Yeah, basically it was like—

or like as a meme, meme generator?

Basically, yeah. It was like you would select a picture from your library or take a picture and then it would, it had like an internal database of funny captions that we all just like got drunk and came up with. And so it would automatically apply one to the picture in white font, but like all the captions were sort of general enough where people thought there was like AI going on.

Like, what's an example? Like, what do you mean?

Like, like, I don't know, a super one, uh, I guess a stupid one would be like, you take a picture of someone in here and it'd be like addicted to cocaine or something like that. And people would see that and be like, oh, he is.

That's so true.

He does look like a cokehead. And so it, and okay. So then the way I got it to spread is it got rejected by the Apple review, you know, board or whatever. Multiple times. And so I was like, for being inappropriate. So I was like, hey, how did I can't make this app clean? Cause then it's not funny. Right. And it won't do anything. So I basically had the, I wrote some code so that the internal database was timed because I knew the app review process took like a week.

Right.

So then basically after 7 days, it would release all the dirty captions. So I got by the Apple review system.

Amazing.

And then everyone was like, oh my God, this app is so wild. Like, look at this, like swear words in it. And it just blew up. It was the number one app in the App Store. You're just on campus, like eBay and Google. And it was number one. And I paid $0 for marketing.

Right.

And I'm on campus like, I don't know what to do because I know I should be making money from this, but I'm not. And I have no idea how to make money or anything about business. And I was talking to my friend. I was like, what do I do? And he was like, dude, you should like sell ads. And I was like, I don't know. How do I even start to do that? Right? Like, I didn't know the first thing about setting up like an ad SDK or anything. And so—

and you also kind of know your shelf life, like, you know, every day that you're the top is great.

Exactly.

And it might not be the case 100 days from now when I figure this out.

And when you blow up that fast, the graph goes the other way just as quick. Right. So I was stressing on what to do and I got an email from a CEO of a startup and Palo Alto, and he was like, hey, saw your app, I love it, I want to hire you and buy the app. And I was like, perfect. That worked out, which was cool for me because like growing up, you know, being obsessed with Apple and Steve Jobs, I was like, Silicon Valley is like a dream. That's where I'd want to end up.

Is this it? This is the app?

This is it.

Oh, amazing.

No, this is iCapThat 2, the sequel. So like when this company—

I'm surprised you didn't go with like dos or something.

I know, right? Did I tell you this on, on my podcast?

No, no, no.

Okay. When, so I, I took a trip to Palo Alto, fell in love with it, met the team. They loved, they like, you know, we just got along great. It was a, it was a mobile ad SDK company.

Yeah.

It was a mobile ad network. So they needed my app to drive traffic through the network. Cool. And I needed money and a job.

Right.

So they like, it was, you know, pretty, um, mutually beneficial. They acquired the app. I think it was like for $50K, half in cash, half in stock. Which was great for me. It was a nice, like, lump sum to get a— lump sum, sorry— to get, like, apartment and furniture and stuff. And then my first job was to make a sequel that was a paid version. Or no, actually, no, my first job was to make an iCapThat Plus, which was the paid version. Right. And we launched it and immediately it made $200 grand. And I was like, Damn it.

Wow. Damn it.

You were kind of— I should have just done this by myself.

You're early to the Plus train. But there wasn't Apple Plus. And then we did ESPN Plus.

You were early. I invented that.

You pioneered that shit. Yeah.

I have it patented, actually. And so then we made iCap That 2, and then we made iCap That 2 Plus, and we just milked this thing.

How much of this do you think you generated?

The whole thing made like half a million bucks or something like that. But then, you know, then it died.

Yeah. And so you had, you had that run of like, you're doing that on campus. So you got the taste of like the thrill of making something, succeeding, kind of failing, but also succeeding at the same time. Where was your head at, at that point? You're like, what are you thinking at that moment? You're like, oh, I could just do this again. Or what was your approach after that?

Like after I got the job?

Just like after you had gone through that experience, like, did you think of like, I'm going to do this again? Or what was your?

It definitely was my first, like, little taste of independent success. So that definitely gave me a little courage. Like, my plan was, okay, I'm just going to stay at this company and work my ass off and try to try, you know, do what I can to make this thing a success so that, like, the stock, you know, becomes something. And that didn't happen. Yeah, but yeah, it was like definitely It gave me my first little taste of success. And before that, I had never, you know, had, I had never like felt momentum like that before where something's working and the graph is going up and to the right and you're like, oh my God, I'm onto something.

Right. And then you tasted that again when you started doing like content, right? Vine, Vine content was the next time you tasted that, like that kind of crazy virality.

I actually, that was more, everything since then has been more linear. Really? Yeah. Like I've never been, you know, you see creators all the time that blow up like out of nowhere. Like, you know, this year it was like Alex Earl or something like that. Sure. Or, um, who else? Like the octopus, octopus-y kid. Do you know him?

No.

Anyways, it happens. It seems like it happens.

Promising though.

He sounds like he's really cool.

Like a gem.

Um, he's really funny, but for me it was always like, I kind of had to grind my way to having an audience by literally downloading Vine. Making videos every single day. I was, I was actually pretty late. I would say like the whole first, like, class of, you know, like famous Viners had already been a thing like King Bach, right? Brittany Furlan. They were already like people, right, that everyone recognized. So when I downloaded it, I was just like, I didn't download it with the intention of like being somebody or, you know, generating an audience or anything like that. I just was, I was working on a social media app for this company. And it was like Snapchat for video, basically. And then Snapchat for video came out.

Yeah. Snapchat added video.

We were like, damn it. And so basically I was like just keeping tabs on all the new ones that were coming out and Vine came out. So I downloaded it, started playing around with it, and I lived alone in Palo Alto, which as a 21-year-old is the most like boring life imaginable. So I would just start making videos. I would get home from work and I just all of a sudden like started feeling like I was like flexing my creative muscle. And hadn't done that in a long time. Yeah, I felt good. So every day I would just make more videos and then it was like getting involved in the community, you know, like making online friends with the other people that were kind of getting some traction. And then I started showing up on the popular page and people started recognizing my face and I just kept doing it. Like, just was genuinely like, didn't try to make it a job. I just was like, programming is my job. This is my hobby and I'm going to treat it like an art.

Right.

Sort of. And that, that sort of paid off because I— people, I think people liked the sincerity behind it.

And what do you mean by that? So like for the people that were— let's compare the people that were trying really hard to like become famous on Vine and what you were doing. What do you think was different to the outsider?

I think like selling out was a much more obvious thing back then or a much more like binary thing. Whereas now it's like completely expected. It's like someone, someone takes off and they start doing ad reads and their fans are like, yeah, get the bag, let's go. Whereas back then it was like, first of all, 6 seconds is really hard to endorse something in.

Like, you can't even say get the bag.

Exactly. So it was pretty obvious when people like started making money and then people would be like, ah, you know, you sold out, you're not the same, right? So I think that it helped that I had an actual job. On the side that I was making decent money.

But you got to a couple million followers, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I had like, I, yeah, I think I had like 3 or 4 or something.

And on Vine, I was wondering this one like that, or maybe 2.

I don't know.

What happened to Vine?

I think it was just a little bit ahead of its time because I think now, I mean, if it came out like 5 years ago, I feel like it would have worked, but it was kind of working then.

And then they just like turned it off.

I think it was because when Twitter, Twitter bought it before they launched, then they launched it and it really worked. But then like the traffic started tapering off. And I think they were at a crossroads where they were like, we can't monetize just, just our website.

Right.

Like Twitter was having a really hard time monetizing. I think it still is.

And wasn't there like a meeting with creators where the creators like, we want money and Twitter was like, nah.

And then they, wasn't there like some famous, I remember something like that where they, yeah, I think they like were in a room with like King Bach and those people and they were like, we want this much money to keep posting. And they were like, we don't have it.

Right. They're like, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So they were like, actually, we're just going to shut it, shut down the whole thing instead.

You want my money? Yeah.

How about no platform?

Like, oh, okay. Um, so you, okay. So you go through that. You, uh, you guys have had a— you've been doing content on like podcast, YouTube for like over 10 years, probably almost, right?

Yeah, almost.

What— and you said, you know, it was kind of linear. So if I said like, what was kind of breakout for you? What were the— what were like the breakout moments or like things you remember were like, oh shit, things just got different for me. Like I— something is different. I don't know exactly how, how big this is, but like something changed.

I remember, I remember the first time that I hit a million views overnight. It was like a, it was a That's Cringe video, which was like one of now like one of the most viewed series on my channel. And, uh, I remember like we did a couple and they seemed to be working. People seemed to be into them, but it wasn't like apparent how much more people liked them than, you know, the other stuff that I was doing. And then we post like the third or fourth one. And I remember waking up to a million views and I was like, oh my God, that is, that was unfathomable for me. You know, even 5 months ago, right? Like those numbers just like don't even make sense to me. And, uh, so that was one pretty distinctive moment. Another one was when we, when then me and Noel went on tour for the first time and the second time and all the times after that, and the tickets would just like sell out. And I was like, I see, that was a moment where I was like, I can't believe that this is now converting into real-world sales where people want to come to a venue and see us in person. That felt really cool. That's always like a weirdly sobering thing.

What do you guys do when you do that? Because we did, we've done, I think we did 2 live shows this year. Um, both times they like, you know, people showed up, which was like shocking in the moment and afterwards. Uh, but also we were like, what the fuck? What do they want? Like, what are we supposed to do? Podcast? Like, you want us to just do the podcast in front of you while you sit here? Like, yeah, I know that's boring. I think. Um, and we tried to do a bunch of stuff. Uh, I personally hate it. I hate, I'm like, I don't really want to do that again because like, you know, your series is called That's Cringe. That's in my head. I was like, this is cringe right now. What's happening is a little bit cringe. What do you guys actually do when you do your live stuff?

We did, uh, so like the first couple shows that we did were just, uh, on stage like podcasts, because the same thing, we didn't really know. And then what do people want to see? I'm not really sure they're buying tickets for a live podcast.

500 people just sitting quietly listening to—

no, our first show was like 100 or something like that, or whatever.

There's a crowd of people just watching the podcast.

Yeah, and that went well.

But you guys are funny. I think that's the thing, they're laughing, so it's kind of a comedy show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I think that works.

But then we— so then After that, we did another tour where we were like, hey, we can't— we need something that's gonna like guarantee laughs, and we really want to, want to put effort into this. So then we wrote a show, and then we started writing songs for the show, and it kind of became like a third music, a third like live sort of That's Cringe that we did on stage.

Gotcha.

And then a third like just stand-up comedy.

Wow.

Um, because Noel was a stand-up before we started doing anything together. So he kind of already had jobs.

And in research for this, I saw a video of you doing standup.

What?

Yeah.

Where?

There's a video. Oh my God.

Please, please do not look that up. Please, for the love of God. I do not want to see that. Oh, it's on my own channel, dude. I'm taking that down.

It wasn't that hard for me to do this research, by the way. What's it like doing standup? Horrifying.

Horrifying. The thing is, I, I DJ now.

Yeah, I've heard.

And so I like, that's in front of people and I find myself like a lot more comfortable, obviously, because it's not just you and the mic and the audience. It's like there's something in between, which is already awesome, you know? It's like music, right?

So you, for the live shows, you guys are like turning it into like a full—

Yeah, by the end of the tour, because we did a— we toured the whole world, right? And we did like, I don't know, like 100 shows or something like that. So by the end, it's like we had the show literally word for word scripted and memorized, right? Because when you do it that many times, it just becomes the same show and then you like alter it a little bit every time. If something got a laugh, you'll add that back for the next one and it kind of evolves.

So we had Samir from Colin and Samir in here yesterday and I had asked him a question like, I think we had said something like, you know, what 3 creators do you see that you think Like could become billionaires. Like you talked about MrBeast. Great. Who else? Who else do you think has that pathway or potential? And he said, MrBeast. Uh, he said, I forgot who he said, Dude Perfect or something like that. And then he said you.

No way.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. And I was like, that's amazing. Cause he named 50 other YouTubers, by the way, during the episode that I was like, oh cool. I'd never heard of these people. Cause he's, I'm not like in the, like. I have the things I like and I'm not like YouTube culture. I'm not like everywhere on YouTube. And I was like, dude, he's coming in here tomorrow. I'm going to tell him this and see how he reacts. And you sound surprised.

I definitely am surprised.

You know, the thing, the thing he said wasn't like he's going to be, he's like, uh, they could, he's like, it's up to them. He's like, they totally can. If they, if they choose to like optimize in that direction, they are like The ones who have like the kind of the audience, the intelligence and like the kind of the capability to do stuff there, or they might take that energy in a different direction.

Yeah.

Um, I also, uh, I was telling Ben on the way over here, I was like, I was like, I feel like you and Noel could do a, uh, like Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle movie.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we are working on something.

I can't really say too much about it, but I'm a believer that that's like so in your guys' wheelhouse.

I think it'd be a lot of fun.

I remember when I was younger, I acted in a movie like as a kid, like a kid actor of a thing. And my older brother in the movie was Kal Penn, who is—

Oh, Kumar.

Yeah. So he called me one day and he was like, hey, how's like school going? Like, I don't even know what I had to say. I was like, how's your— what do you do? What are you doing now? And he's like, I'm filming Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle, which to me, I didn't even understand what that— I didn't know what White Castle was. There was none where I was at. So I thought it was a fantasy movie.

Okay.

I was like, oh yeah, I guess he's going to some fantasy epic castle thing. And I remember going to school and telling my friends like, yeah, why did he call you? Just checking in on me. He was just a nice guy. He was just—

you were like friends with him after that?

Because like, because you were saying like, you know, when you go on tour, you hang out like, yeah, same thing on a set. You just sit there, right? Right. Like 9 hours waiting for them to line up the shot. Yeah.

Okay.

Do like 5 minutes of acting, then you just sit there again.

Like, so he was just checking up on you? Like, what's good?

Yeah, he was like, what's good, man? Like, you know, how's your summer going?

What's his number?

Um, I don't know anymore.

You should read it out actually.

He came to speak at Duke actually, and I was like, I went up on stage and I was I was like, oh, I look totally different than like when I was 11. Yeah, I was like, hey! And I was like, he probably has no clue who I am. That's really funny.

He seems like a nice guy.

Oh, he's ultra nice. Uh, really nice guy. He's also— I really like about him is he, um, he just like grinded super, super hard at a time there's like no Indian actors. Like the only Indian acting jobs he could get was like, you're the convenience store guy, you're like Thick accent. And I remember talking to him on set. I was like, what are you going to do after this? And he's like, he's like talking to his agent or something. And he just kept turning down roles because he's like, they just want me to be the stereotypical Indian guy.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, cool. So what do you do instead? He's like, I don't have anything and there's no instead. I was like, so. And he's like, he's like, I have no money and I'm just going to like, I'm going to just wait till I get a real— he's like, if I do that, I'll never get out of that.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm just going to, like, risk it all and, like, grind through this period of, like, not having anything until I get there.

That's funny. I, I took a— I've told this story before on my own podcast, but I took an acting class one time and they were talking about leaning into your typecast at the beginning of your career. Like, you have to do what you look like in order to, like, get your foot in the door.

Right.

So we did this exercise where We all ran, went around this, the circle like this. It was like a, you know, room full of students. It's like 20 of them. And we all had a journal and we would all like one by one, look at each other and write down what we thought they looked like and their typecast was. And so like, and then we all revealed them basically like one by one, they, the, the teacher would point to one of us and then the rest of the students would read what they wrote about that person.

Wow.

So it was like, it was like doctor, scientist. You know, and it was like, you know, race car driver, cool shit. And then it gets to me and they're like, influencer, cokehead, DJ, sells coke in the bathroom. It was literally like 5 minutes of just the most offensive shit. Oh, I look like a douchebag. I was like, damn. But I mean, I guess that's—

you're an influencer and a DJ now, so I don't know too much about your lifestyle, but like, yeah, this is what ended up happening.

Yeah, he nailed it.

He actually had a similar thing. He's like, got a call. He's like, oh yeah, I'm going to be on CSI. And they're like, CSI, it's a terrorist plot. And he's like, oh man, come on, dude.

Damn it.

And he actually, what he did was he changed his name. So his name is not actually Kal Penn. His name is like Kalpen Modi. And he's like, I'm not getting any auditions for the roles I want. So he just created a fake name by splitting his first name.

Yeah.

And then he started getting calls in and then they're like, he shows up, he's not white, and they were like, oh, okay, I guess you're here, go ahead and read the role and see what happens. Yeah, yeah. Actually, the funny thing is the one of the bigger roles he got was like Indian doctor on House, and I was like, uh, you split the difference. Yeah, he doesn't have to do the accent, but like, you know, still kind of stereotypical in a way. That's funny. Did you, when you were like trying to get better at what you were doing, um, how did you do that? Because like Obviously you get better by just doing reps, but sometimes, you know, if I want to get better at something, I might, you know, hire a coach, read a book, take a class, uh, like study and break down people who are already good at it. Like, how did you get good at doing what you do? Was there any intentional kind of process you went through?

I think a lot of the times, um, if I'm thinking about like getting what makes a good podcast or what makes a good YouTube video or what makes a good song, I'll just like consume a lot of it and just think about it a lot. But I mean, like the number one thing you can do is just do it. You just learn by doing, at least for me. So that's, that's how I've gotten good is just reps over time because like if you go and listen to my first episode of my podcast, it was complete garbage, right? It's just something I've gotten better at. I'm still not that great at it, but like I've gotten better at it through the years, right? And now I'm going through that sort of with like music production too. It's just like I'm at the beginning stage where I'm like, everything I make is a little bit better. And just leaning into that, the joy and like conquering the zero to one phase. And yeah, just like learning to enjoy that part of the learning curve, I think is really important.

What are some things you figured out that made like, let's say the That Cringe series, which now has like, I don't know, 150 million views on that, that, that style of video that you do. What's something you figured out? You're like, oh, that's, I used to do it this way. Then I figured out this and made it better.

I don't know if it's really anything conscious, you know. It could— it's like, it's mostly stuff that you just like innately pick up on when you do things over and over again, when you read comments and think about what people are reacting to. Um, but you know, a lot of the times it's like the first time we did a video like that, you know, we were trying to riff and kind of stepping over each other's lines and jokes and punchlines and stuff. The next time we did it, we got a little bit better at like letting each other speak and breathe. And like, that's one thing that I think we're really good at now is we never speak over each other. Like, we never interrupt. We're really good at riffing, but like, because we're innately just conscious of like, you know, the audience and what they want to hear. And no one likes to hear people interrupting and stepping all over each other's jokes, you know? Um, so stuff like that. Um, we just get better at like just because you do it, you know.

Uh, I like that answer, even though I wanted you to say like the trick. Uh, it's like a lesson I've had to relearn so many times that there is like, you know, there are things that make things better, but they're like, there wasn't the trick. Yeah, yeah, it was like a shitload of reps. Yeah. And caring. And then like, you know, you just sort of like get better with every rep. But there's like, there's kind of the boring—

it's like the—

it's not the answer that's like, yes, I found the secret.

I just, I don't think it would be fun if you went from zero to good at something just by doing one little trick, because it doesn't, you don't like, I find so much joy in, in like getting a little bit better at something every time I do it. And then seeing a little evidence of that, which you get by posting online, right? Like the next time you do something, you all of a sudden, you know, 5 comments being like, wow, this is better than the last one you did. And you're like, fuck yeah.

Yeah.

I'm getting it. You know? Drives me. I love that feeling.

We had Mark Manson come in and record here the day before, and he, he has this thing he said is like, happiness, people think happiness comes from not having problems. Happiness comes from solving problems.

Yeah, totally.

And I was like, oh yeah, that's like so fucking true. And the better version of that, it turns out, is like when you, when you feel like you chose your that problem. So like, if the weather's just bad, you know, you know, it's like, oh, I didn't choose this. It's happening to me.

Yeah.

But if you're like, you know, I want to— like, for you, you're like doing these long 50-mile races or 100-mile races or whatever. It's like you're choosing a set of problems that you're going to get, you know, struggle but get satisfaction with as you overcome them. Yeah. Right now, what are those for you? So it's like the endurance stuff. Maybe the business stuff is like that too for you or no?

Yes, for sure. Both of, both of those things.

Let's, let's talk about the business stuff. So on the business side, you know, a lot of these creators are building brands off their products.

Yeah. I mean, for me it was like investing or other stuff.

Are you doing any of that stuff?

I am. Yeah. I'm developing something that I'm going to launch in the fall. But for me, it was always kind of difficult. I would see people doing it and I was like, this— okay, this seems obvious. And then I would think like, oh, the money that people are paying us to promote their shit on the show, like ExpressVPN, for example, they've been a sponsor of the show for years and they've probably paid us like, you know, if we total it all up, it's like an insane amount of money. Right. But their return on investment must have been way higher, right? Otherwise they would then be crazy to rebuy the ads year after year. So I'm like, why don't we just like, it just makes sense for us to own something that we're promoting. Because then we see all the upside, right? But it, it was always— it always kind of killed me thinking of the right thing because I don't want to force anything on, on my audience. And comedy is a very hard thing to like align with a product or a service because it's just something that people enjoy. It's not, you know, it's not like a— I don't know, it's not like fitness or cooking where there's like products that people use every time they cook. With comedy, it's not like that. It's, uh, it's just like, I don't know, generic and sort of. So I like when I started doing the endurance stuff, that's when I was like, oh, there's a lot of stuff that I'm doing every day.

Yeah.

That it's natural for me to promote.

And this is really cool. Cody's Run Club.

Yeah. So this is kind of, kind of my first like, uh, product in this direction. Where like I wanted to make something more like fitness-focused. So this is like the first time I've done like running shorts, for example.

When you're promoting it, are you doing— because that little like video that was on there was kind of funny. Are you like using the like— are you leaning into the humor side or you try to be like more serious when you're promoting the stuff?

That's something I still kind of battle with myself over how serious— because like I always want to be like comedy is a very easy crutch to lean on. Because it's like I like making fun of myself. And also if I'm a little bit self-conscious about something, it's like, oh, I was just joking. So like this, you know, it's like hard for me to sit in a studio and actually make a fitness video because I'm like, I'm not that guy, right? I'm just doing endurance races because I like doing it. It's a challenge, but I'm not the guy that's out there like in slow-mo, like, you can do anything, right? No. So I like, I like to blend the two.

I mean, that was great. Like you were just like on the bike and the guy's like spraying, spraying the mist in your face to make it look like you're sweating. That's great.

So yeah, this is like my first, you know, time kind of generating a product in like the more fitness lane. And then I'm going to do something else that I think will hopefully be a little bit bigger.

It'd be funny if you were just sort of the anti-David Goggins, like just went the other way.

Yeah. Stay soft.

Yeah. Marshmallows. Just sign off with something so, so incredibly soft. Do you listen to a lot of his stuff?

I do. I mean, I read his Wrote his first book and, uh, I've listened to his like Joe Rogan episodes and stuff like that.

You should, uh, have you ever read the book, uh, Living with a SEAL?

No.

Um, it's a great book. There's an entrepreneur named Jesse Itzler. Do you know him? Have you ever heard of this guy? Jesse Itzler?

Yeah.

He, um, so he married the woman who created Spanx.

Okay.

Um, he, and then he created like Spanx, like the concept, the action. Uh, no, no, no, the, uh, the shapewear spanking. Yeah, that would be big. That would be— that's a big idea. She, uh, so, and he created like— he started off as a white rapper, then, uh, he's always like white rapper, then he's like, all right, not gonna make it as a rapper, so he's like, I'm gonna work in a, um, record studio, like a record label. So he's like working as a— in a record label. His intern was like this guy who's trying to be this rapper, trying to be all hard. He's like, yeah, I like this guy. It was 50 Cent. So 50 Cent was his intern for a little bit. 50 Cent goes off, blows up. So he's like, okay, I'm— he's like, that guy, like, had it. I don't really have it. He's like, what do I— what can I do? He's like, he started creating jingles. So like rap jingles. Okay. So he's like, he created the Knicks theme song, like the New York Knicks, like, go Knicks, go whatever, go New York, go. And so he created sports like jingle, like kind of like quick raps for companies. Okay. And then he sells that company for like, I don't know, $4 million. He's like, all right, I got $4 million. I split it between the two guys. What are we gonna do now that we got $2 million? And they, after they sold, they met a rich guy who took them on a private jet and they were like flying in this private jet. They're like, this is amazing. We would love to do this more. We can't afford a jet. So like, it'd be cool if you could just own like a couple rides on a jet, like a piece of a jet. Like what if I could just fly on a jet 10 times? That'd be amazing.

Yeah.

Timeshare for jets. So they created that, ended up selling that.

Is that like NetJet or something?

They sold it to NetJets. So, uh, there was like Marquis, I think was the name of the guys. And so they sold it to NetJets, which is owned by Warren Buffett. That was a huge sale. And then now he like owns a piece of an NBA team. He like, you know, Zico coconut water. He like invested a bunch in that early on when he was like, oh, coconut water is going to be a big thing. Uh, cause he's an endurance athlete. So he loved doing long runs. And so he was like, the running community loves coconut water. I think mainstream is going to too.

Yeah.

So he found a small brand that wasn't doing that well, put a bunch of money in, and they ended up like selling it to Coke later.

I listened to that How I Built This episode. It's— that's like one of my favorites.

The coconut water one?

Yeah. If you're looking for a good one.

Yeah.

Look, look up that episode and watch that. It's great.

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All right, I got to tell you about one thing that's one of the great joys of my life. You know, I'm not a cars guy and I'm not a watch guy, but there's one thing that gives me a lot of joy, and that is having a virtual assistant. Uh, you know, here's the scenario. I'm running my companies, and even though I'm supposed to be this, uh, CEO, we all know I spend 20-30% of my time just doing random bullshit stuff that is not high value, but it's just tedious. The stuff that has to get done but it's not creativity. It doesn't require me and it doesn't add a bunch of value to the business. It's just stuff, just stuff that has to get done. And so that stuff is what a virtual assistant does. Like just this week alone, you know, I lose my wallet. So she goes to the DMV website, fills out a bunch of forms, gets me a new license. Or, um, you know, every morning people have their morning coffee. I have my morning metrics and my morning metrics are basically all the business metrics that I care about compiled. She goes, she finds it for all the different sources, puts it in an Excel sheet, takes a screenshot, texts it to me. So that when I wake up in the morning, I don't go on Twitter or check my email. I'm looking at what are the metrics at and what do I need to do. I'm focused on the right things. So having a virtual assistant is a no-brainer, whether it's travel booking, email inbox, or just knocking stuff off your personal to-do list that would have just lingered there forever. Um, I think it's a no-brainer. If you're a business owner, you should definitely do it. Um, I think one of the best places to find an assistant is Shepard. So go to supportshepard.com. You know, I pay my assistant I think $8 an hour, something like that. That's double what she was making in her previous job. So it's a win for her. And for me, it's super affordable. It's something that, um, you know, you don't need to have the biggest business ever, be the biggest big shot in order to afford it. So it's amazing. I now do this for my COO and my CMO too. Like I just give them assistance without them even asking because I know it makes them more productive. That's, it does that for me. So of course it's gonna do that for them too. So go to supportshubbert.com, check 'em out. Um, get an assistant and Tell them I sent you. They'll take good care of you if you do that. So sportsshepherd.com, check it out. And one of the things he did along the way was he was like, I really want to run this. Like, I guess there's some hardcore race in Arizona or whatever, the hardest race, Death Valley or something like that. Something like that. And he goes there and he sees people running, and then he sees this guy who's just like a huge guy running this race, and he's like by himself and he's like bleeding and he's running. And it's David Goggins, essentially. Meets him and he is like, hey, I want to run this race next year. Um, will you train me? And he's like, will you live in my house and train me, uh, for like 30 days? And then he did. And then he wrote a, uh, years later he wrote a book about that whole experience.

Oh, that's cool.

And this was before anyone knew who David Goggins was.

Hmm.

So the book came out and he, and he just calls it Living with a Seal. He never mentions the guy's name. Hmm. But he's like this character that's like just like hard as shit and just like, you know, would wake him up like, you know, it'd be at 3 in the morning. They just, Like they would run like 8 miles at night.

Yeah. Yeah.

He'd wake up at 3 in the morning and be like, wake up, bitch. It's time. You know, like he'd be like, let's go. We're going running again and again and again.

I got to read that.

It's a great book. It's a great read.

Jesse Itzler, you said?

Jesse Itzler. Yeah. Living with a SEAL. It's a good, uh, a good one. Have you like, for the running thing, is it like, why? Like, I don't, I am like, if you told me to do an endurance thing, I'd be like, oh, you've suggested my least favorite activity on earth.

Yeah.

Yeah. Why do you do it?

My parents did it growing up, so it, it's kind of in my blood. I saw them do it. Um, and I've always, like, they, they raised us, like, we would go on bike trips all the time. And so we were always doing it and then we would see them do these incredible feats of fitness and it just became something that I, that drove me. And then I was like an athlete in college and stuff. So when I graduated, I was like, I need something to stay in shape. So like running just seemed like the most natural thing. And then. Once you do, you know, 5 miles, you're like, oh, or once you do 3 miles, you're like, I think I can do 5. And then you're like, I should, I should maybe go for a half marathon. You get kind of addicted to it, right? And then so I've done like marathons ever since. And then my sister signed up for an Ironman and she did it. And she's my younger sister. So I was like, damn it, she did that before me. So then I signed up for one and then I did one and now it just kind of like through that I was going through like a pretty dark period, like right after COVID. And through training for this, for these, I did an ultramarathon first and then I did an Ironman. And through training for those, I kind of like refound my confidence and my happiness. So now it's like something I want to make part of my life. So like I started the training channel and now I'm just planning more things, like I'm going to do the New York Marathon and then I'm planning 100-and-something-mile ultra that I'm trying to do.

What about the music videos you guys do? Because, um, they're amazing and, uh, they're like almost like too amazing. It's like, wait, like, where did this come from? Why is this like, why is this good? Are you guys, is this what you guys actually do? Like, I didn't really understand the first time I saw one. I was like, this is, uh, I don't know. I was just like very jealous. I was like, holy shit. Like you can't have, you can't be like, oh, I'm relatable and funny. But I'm also like mega talented on the other side. So, you know, you get to pick, you know, that's how life works. How did you guys start doing that and why is it like, why is it so, so fucking good? And like, why don't you lean into that more if it's so good?

I do think that, yeah, like a lot of the stuff I've done or been successful at, it's been like, like I'm the person to look at a pipe dream and be like, it would be really cool to be that and then like actually try. And so that's kind of how that started was like, you don't count yourself out.

You mean like, yeah, exactly.

Like I, I somewhere in me kind of believe that I'm probably capable of that somewhere. And I think everyone is of everything. Um, but I'm pretty good at like not, you know, turning myself down, I guess, at the beginning. And, and that's kind of what I lost in that like dark period was I lost that confidence. And if I thought of something, I would revert back to like, no, you couldn't accomplish that. But when it came to music, I was always like, it'd be cool to like do— it would be cool to like go online and say, I have a new song out.

You know what I mean?

That would be a really cool thing.

It's working backwards from that.

Yeah, exactly. And like, I never— I never played any instruments besides drums growing up. I was never really musically inclined. I had a good sense of rhythm and I really enjoyed music and So I was kind of like, now this is something that's not really for you. And then I was like, no, why can't it be? And so I downloaded FL Studio, I made a beat, and for one of our videos I invited Noel over because he used to actually rap in high school. So I was like, I made this beat, can you just rap over it and we'll make a funny song for the end of this video? And he, you know, took a little bit of convincing because he was like, I closed this chapter of my life. And so finally I got him over to the place. He, you know, put a verse down. I recorded my verse I wrote and recorded, and then I was like, tried to figure out how to process a voice.

Which song?

Put out this horrible song called Keep Your Dick Fat. And then I wrote a comedy song again. Comedy is like, again, again, the comedy is a nice crutch to lean on where you're like, we're bad, but it's funny.

Yeah, exactly.

So people don't like put too much pressure on you or make fun of you too much. And so we did that. Oh, that's still up. Wow.

Okay.

God, this is my first beat ever. It's horrible.

Yeah, I like the beginning stuff. I always like the early stuff. How'd you decide on that as the concept? Like, what didn't make it that this won as the idea?

That's a great question, actually. I totally forget how we even came up with that. I think he must have said, keep your dick fat or something. And then I was like, oh, that's funny. Let's put that down.

Well, that's also how Tiny Beat Gang came about, right? Like that. That's— it was just something you said.

It's just like that was our whole thing is just dick jokes and being stupid and being 5 years old. So, and then so after we released this, we shot a music video for it and where we like used a friend that was a DP and we shot it all nice and then we're like, oh, this is a fun thing, like doing something a little bit more hype. Production value. This is like a really fun path to go down. And then shortly after this, I got a DM from a producer in LA. His name's Diamond Pistols, now like a fantastic friend and has produced a ton of music for us. He was like, hey, I'm a producer, let me produce your next song. This is really funny. And so we were like, sure. And we showed up at his place and we made a song called Super Zen. Like in a day or like we did. We made that song in a day and How do you make a song in a day?

What do you really— so you get there.

I mean, if you're working with a good producer, it's you get there, they're like, what do you want to make? And you're like, okay, well, I've been listening. Usually the way a music session starts is you'll just listen to music together and you'll be like, I really been into this song recently. You'll put it on, try to find some sort of inspiration. Or if you come in with a concept, then you'll kind of work off that. We didn't really have anything. And so he started making a beat. We just like wrote some bullshit lyrics and then we came up with this concept. Like at that time Xanax was like the big thing, like Lil Pump and all these guys were talking about doing Xanax all the time. So we were like, let's make a song called Super Xan where it doesn't make any sense because we don't actually know what like mainstream rap lyrics mean. We're just kind of trying to, you know, hang on to the trending references and stuff like that. So then once we made that song, we're like, it's— the song is pretty damn good. Let's shoot another video for it. And Noel called in a bunch of favors. We ended up getting a horse for the video.

These look expensive too. So you guys like—

yeah, this one was probably like—

you made a bet. You're like, yes. Yeah.

I mean, music videos are a money pit.

At the time, was that like kind of like significant? Like, is that like— this was like a lot of money?

Yes. Oh yeah, it was. We had nothing back then, so it was huge. So like I said, a lot of people did it like on favors because they liked us, and that's Diamond Pistols. you know, a lot of people that are in the video, like she was a paid actress, but, um, are just like friends and stuff. And we knew someone who had a horse and they brought the horse and we paid them like $500 or something.

Wow.

Uh, so then we released this on Spotify and it actually got a lot of streams because people watched the video because it was funny. So then we were like, we should do an EP maybe. So then we started making more music and then fast forward 2, 2 EPs and albums later, we signed a music deal with Arista, and we released 2 songs with them, one of them being Broke Bitch, which now has like over 50 million streams. I think Walkman has like 80 million or 90 million.

Yeah, I think I saw one was like 85.

Yeah, I think it's almost gold.

Was that— is that 100 million is gold?

It's just like it's 100,000 or it's 10 million sales. And I don't know how—

I forget how does that even work anymore.

Yeah, I forget. It's a weird equation, but I think it's almost certified gold, which is fucking crazy.

That's a funny rap idea for you. Be like, because everyone's always platinum.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's like we went gold.

Yeah, exactly.

So you— that's good. I like that.

Yeah, I might steal that.

Yeah, I'm funny too. Okay. One of my questions on my list was like, how do I— am I— am I funny and how do I get funnier? So I would say, yes. Because you listen to the pod. Go ahead.

Yeah, I would say you're definitely funny. I chuckle. I think you guys— here, I'll give you some constructive criticism from a listener, from a fan of the show. I think you need better cold opens.

Agreed.

A lot of times I feel like you use the wrong moments and you should use the funnier moments.

Maybe it's even dumber than that. We come from a different world, so it's like, uh, we're just dumb about like how you would do a creative process. It's like, oh, you should care about this and like you should run a process that like, like looks at the feedback or the data and then like makes it better.

Yeah.

Or like watch it together and be like, what can we do better? Yeah. We've never done that.

Yeah.

But we should.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. The show's good. So that's like, that's my only little thing because it's such a, it's such a great opportunity for a laugh right before the smash cut to the intro. It's such a beautiful thing. And so we, we tend to like take our cold opens pretty seriously. They were like, we need, we need a good laugh right at the beginning of the show. So then when someone turns it on, they're like, huh, I knew I liked this show. Another week.

You know, I'm sticking around one more week. I'll stay till the ad reads.

Yeah, exactly. I'll stick around for 10 minutes exactly.

Um, the, uh, I just saw on the ideas. So I have an ideas section for you where I was going to pitch you a slash.

Okay.

We had one before you walked in.

Frozen s'mores.

Yeah, I was like, why isn't there something called frozen s'mores?

So why me though?

Well, we had the idea right before you arrived and I was like, I gotta ask Cody about frozen s'mores potential. You think there's potential there?

Listen, I like—

so what we're gonna do here, let me tell you that how this side, how this came about.

Okay.

I was like in the studio or whatever and I was like, I want, uh, cause this, this might look however it looks, but like we're in an office building and this is like a small, like Cubicle of office when we're here. I was like, I want to buy an ice cream truck and turn it into a podcast studio and like roll it up to wherever we're going to, whoever I want to record with.

And like, yeah, that's what Steve-O does.

He does it in an ice cream truck.

It's not in an ice cream truck, but he has like a Sprinter van, right? That he's turned into a little studio.

I was worried that my idea—

but it is cool having a traveling set because he pulled up right outside my house and I literally like, my commute was 2 seconds.

That's what I want to do.

Yeah, it was pretty sick.

And, uh, so we're like, okay, let's retrofit it. And then, uh, Ben was like, you know, well, we gotta just create an ice cream brand if we're gonna do that. And then, yeah, Frozen S'mores.

Yeah. Okay. Right.

Okay.

Okay.

It's a s'more. I see the cold and the marshmallows, vanilla ice cream. Okay. That's idea number one I have for you.

That's good. I like that.

Yeah.

Marshmallows are my least favorite thing about s'mores. So agreed. Agreed.

Um, okay. Next one. Uh, let's make a Netflix show. So I wanted to brainstorm with you real quick. Okay. A Netflix show, business related. So Business Unscripted, that's the category.

Okay.

So Shark Tank is a great show.

Yeah.

We need more. So like, you know, the way like, you know, American Idol happened and then people were like, oh shit, The Voice, X Factor, America's Got Talent. Like people just took that format and started remixing Masked Singer. Like they're like, people like this amateur singing thing. We're going to do it.

Yeah.

I think people like the amateur business thing. Shark Tank works.

Yep.

There's not really another Shark Tank. Uh, there's not like another remixed version of a cool thing that you would want. If you like Shark Tank, you might like this.

So we could do one for like creators.

So I don't know, just like, what would, what would work? What do you think?

I like the idea of doing it where people like come in and pitch their channel or their like TikTok idea or whatever.

And then it was, uh, Sully's idea last night. He's like, yeah, we need it for creators.

Yeah, that's good.

I think I've heard it.

Heard someone doing that, I think, because I've— that's not the first time I've heard that idea.

Right.

But I think it's an awesome idea.

So like, how would it work? So they come in, you got you as a guest, just like successful creators maybe are the like judges or whatever. What do they get? Because like, you know, in a business thing, you're like, I get the investment.

What are like the— yeah, what are the—

I get the investment. I'm going to get— no, no, I want to know what the judges get. What does the contestant get? Like, what do they want to create the— to create their channel?

Every creator just needs money to fund their idea. I see.

Yeah.

So that's how it works, I guess. Yeah. And then you'd maybe like, as a judge, you'd be like, okay, now I get like 10% of, I'm your manager now. I get 10% of everything that you make in the future. That's a good idea.

Okay. You're in. I think it sounds like, it sounds like you're in.

It sounds, I'm in on both so far.

Okay, cool.

So we're doing all of these.

You have a Frozen S'mores first, clearly. Second, uh, Shark Tank for, for creators. Um, Another one, uh, app startup ideas. Okay. So CapThat.

Yep.

Smash hit.

Yeah.

CapThat Plus. True smash hit.

I kept that too. Smash hit.

Smash hit.

I kept that 2 Plus.

Where did it stop?

Less of a hit.

Was it 2 Plus where it ended?

That's when traction started dying a little bit.

Have you had any, and you were almost, I say almost, cause I can think your friend, best friend, something like that started Cameo. So you were like very close also to creating Cameo. Or being a part of Cameo.

Oh yeah, I could have been in at the beginning. They were making that in my living room and I was like, this is—

you're like, okay guys, losers.

Cool. Yeah, it looks cool. Like, what are these guys doing? Then I go record a YouTube video like that's any cooler. And, uh, and then it blew the fuck up and then I ended up investing in Series A, right? And I was like, these guys were building this beside me.

Well, good for you because I, anytime I missed the first round, kills me to come in later, even though like you should just come in. It's like, and I'm like so anchored to the fact that they were in my living room.

It's out of principle.

Yeah. Yeah. I will lose more.

Yeah, exactly. So, uh, have you had any other like, you know, viral app ideas that you haven't pursued because you're busy being like, I had one where it was like, it was like, um, it was like an app where you could figure out where to buy frozen s'mores. Frozen s'more locator.

Yes, exactly.

But then I was like, wait, that doesn't exist yet. So someone has to invent that and then I'm going to make that app. Yeah.

Do you have any problems or pain points or opportunities you've seen as like, you know, you're a creator. There's tons of companies in Silicon Valley be like, we serve the creator economy.

Yeah.

But I don't think they really know or understand really how a creator's lifestyle is, what they actually want. Have you seen any like pain points or opportunities that you think somebody who's business-minded would go do?

I think AI like has kind of revolutionized. I mean, like it has everything, but I think it's— there's a lot of potential there to help creators, whether it's with like thumbnails, something as simple as a thumbnail or a title, right? Like I've noticed people using AI to make their thumbnails stand out in crazy ass ways.

What do they even use for that? Like what are they? I don't know.

But a lot of times, like, they'll just make it look a little bit cartoony, but they'll know, then they'll like blend it with the original thumbnail so that it's not obvious, but it's eye-catching. You're like, something's weird about that thumbnail. Which is what it takes to stand out. Which is the point of a thumbnail. It doesn't, like, you know, people think that a good thumbnail is like contrast and colors and it's like a lot of times that ends up blending in. Right. You just want to look different. So I think AI does that.

I remember, uh, in history class at Duke, actually, I learned, uh, that Hitler did that. So back in the day, you and Hitler, like minds think alike. He, all the posters were colored, like just like print there. Everybody was. And so he, all of his marketing was done in black and white, black and white flyers, posters, whatever.

Yeah.

Cause it was just the contrast to everything else. And it was like, yeah, so there you go.

Take a page out of Hitler's book when you're thinking about thumbnails.

But I think, yeah, exactly. I'm learning.

Um, but yeah, I think there's other stuff like, for example, with podcasting, I know there's so much with ads that you can do. The most obvious to me being like just, you know, training some, you know, AI on how we speak, just feeding it the transcript of our 500 episodes, right? And then having it write the ads for us in our own voice and then actually synthesizing our voices and reading the ads for us so we don't actually have to record anything. Right. And then eventually just doing the whole podcast. But like the ad thing I think is so obvious it should happen right away. And if it's not already being worked on.

Have you had anybody like send you a link to like, here's you doing a podcast or here's you doing an ad? Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

We did it last time. It was like, I forget the company's name, but I think they were looking for investment. And then I think I didn't reply to the first email. So the second one, they were like, here's you, by the way, here's your voice. And it was an app where you could call Elon, for example, and have a conversation with Elon on, you know, your computer speaker basically. And so we called me. On the podcast and both of us just talked with me and it was so fucking scary.

Wow.

And weird.

You're like, this guy's great.

Yeah, exactly. This guy's funny. I was like, our job is over, right? We're not going to have this job in a year.

You met Elon, right? You, what was it? You went to, went to his house. You went to his house.

I partied with him one time.

How was it? Tell me everything. How does that even happen?

We were, uh, this is the first time I ever met Post Malone. And we're like, you know, good friends now. I wouldn't— I don't say that as a flex. I'm just like, I fucking love the guy. And whenever he hits me up, I'm down to hang out. But the first time he DMs me, which is often— it's not often. He's a fucking rock star. So it's like I don't hear from him for 8 months, then all of a sudden he'll text me and he's like, I'm in town. Then we're like, I'm like, fuck yeah, let's hang. But he hit us up on— or he hit me up on Twitter and Noel, I think, and was like, hey, hey Dad, or something like that. Like, I love your videos or something. And I was like, oh my God, I was a huge fan of his music. So I was like, it's like so thrilled. And then he was like, I'm gonna— I'm flying back from Australia in 3 days or something like that. Like, let's get drinks. And I was like, let's do it. And I think I was at— I was with Kelsey's family at the time, my wife, like at a family dinner or something. And he was like, I'm back in town, let's meet at the Rainbow Room. And you know, an hour. And I was like, all right, guys, I got to go. Sorry, Kelsey's family. I got to dip out. So we went and met up with him at the Rainbow Room and we got fucked up. We were drinking, you know, lemon drops and, and it was just like this surreal experience where we're just like, because he's very similar, he's the same sense of humor. So we're just like joking around, riffing, having a great time. And then he looks at his phone, he's like, Elon, Elon's been texting me. And we're like, yeah, sure. Yeah, totally. Just thinking it was a joke. And then he showed us his phone. It was like Elon Musk. It was like, come over. And we were like, and he was like, he was like, should we go over to his house? And we were like, uh, yeah. I mean, you can't really say no to that.

Yeah.

And so we got in cars and drove to his house and, uh, we got to his house and him and Grimes are like standing on the driveway with lanterns. Like, welcome to my house.

Is that like—

I don't know. It was fucking— it was so bizarre. The whole thing was from a dream. I swear to God, it was the weirdest night of all time.

Was it like 1,000 people there or it's like just y'all?

No, it was like 10 or not even. It was like Post crew plus us. These like, you know, hangers on that are just like, hi, include me and shit. And then it was Elon and Grimes and like, I forget who else was there. A couple like producers. And like 2 other people. So we're all sitting around the fire and it's like 2 or 3 in the morning and we're just sitting there talking and Post and Elon are talking and he's like nursing a glass of whiskey or something like that. And I remember thinking like, this house doesn't have any furniture. It's really weird. And someone was like, well, this is his like party house. His like family house is across the street or something. And I was like, oh, that makes sense. He's like a billionaire.

As he should.

Yeah, exactly. I would have a party house if I could have one.

Um, with no furniture.

Yeah. And so eventually, and then, and then—

So you're all standing.

What?

So you're all standing basically.

No, no, no. We're sitting outside of a, outside, like around a fire pit, like on some ledge or something like that. I think there were like a couple chairs. They were very sporadic. Um, and then I remember like we, we finally, it was like 4 AM. I was like, okay, I gotta go home. Kelsey's asking where I'm at. And so we go downstairs, can't figure out which door leads out. And I was like, I don't want to open a random door.

And then there's like a spaceship in there and they're like, quick, there's not enough time.

Get on. So then I go back upstairs. And I like lean around the corner and Elon and Grimes are making out. And I was like, okay, I'm not going to interrupt that. So then we just went downstairs, found the door, and then we're sitting, both of us, me and Noel, are sitting on the curb afterwards looking up just like, what the fuck? No one's going to believe this. Like, this is the wildest night we've ever had. It was crazy.

That's insane. What's he like?

He was nice. Yeah, he was nice. I was pretty drunk.

So what does one talk about?

My memory is a little foggy, but I remember him saying some things that were like, okay, he clearly like thinks a little bit differently about things.

What did you, uh, are you like in, like, what's your, in that moment? Cause I, whenever I meet celebrities, I make a complete ass out of myself. Um, to the point where I'm like, I don't want to go and I don't want to meet him. I don't want to do it. It's, you know, I start thinking stupid things and I say stupid things.

I think I like, it was one of those things where we were not invited. It was like Post that was invited. So he really wanted to get to know Post. So they were talking and we were sitting beside, just got kind of going, yeah.

So yeah.

Well, I mean, yeah, totally. Agreeing. So we were trying to like, you know, not be a nuisance.

Right. That's a better mentality. That's, that's my new mentality with celebrities. Just be there, not be a nuisance.

And don't, yeah. Don't get people to wish you weren't there.

You know, that's the new win.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Cause my win is like, we're best friends after this. So what I need to do is charm the pants off this This guy.

No. Yeah, I was too scared, honestly.

That's hilarious, dude. This was fun. Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, this was great.

Thanks for doing it.

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Bye.

That's a wrap.