From Nonprofit Founder To Building A $300M Pilates Business

All right, everyone. Today's episode is Anne Maloum. Anne started this company called Solidcore. Solidcore is a Pilates studio where she bootstrapped it in the first year. She did something like $1.5 million in revenue. It costs like $100,000 to start. And she eventually sold this company in year 9 for something like $350 million. And she goes through this entire story. But if you're listening, I think the really amazing part is to copy some of her attributes because I get done listening to her and I'm like, I need to step it up in terms of confidence or in terms of being passionate about something. And in fact, there's like, in minute 30, I honestly teared up hearing some of her stories. So check it out. And by the way, if you are interested in Anne, I'm going to give a plug for MoneyWise, this podcast I did with her where she went deep on her finances. So how much money she spends, how much money she made, everything. And because I liked her so much on that podcast, I wanted her to come on here. So check it out. And I hope you guys enjoy this episode and let me know in the comments. Uh, let's do a little background. So I think you had a normal job, but then started a nonprofit called Back on My Feet. Is that right?

Yep.

And what was the original idea?

I don't know if you know much about how the homeless system works, but many of the shelters in the major cities, you can go live there for 30 days and then you get kicked out. They give you 30 days to get your crap together. Which is not very much time for someone who isn't going through homelessness, to be honest, to sort of start over, go back in the city, get back in the system. 95% of the folks we worked with were dealing with addiction on some level. So, you know, Sam, I know a little bit of your background, and I think I mentioned on our last conversation, my dad's an addict. And when you ask my dad, Mark, what was your addiction? And he'll kind of look at you and say, everything. Because my dad doesn't understand moderation. You know, he had unfortunately instances with drugs and alcohol. He went into inpatient program before I was 5, so I don't really remember this, but that seemed to do the trick. He hasn't had a, a, a drink or used drugs in 37, 8 years. Um, unfortunately gambling then surfaced for my dad when I was a teenager and he struggled with that. And now my dad fishes. He fishes every day for hours a day. But you have to find someplace to put this thing. And I had felt like if you can master the drugs and alcohol, you know, and, and try to get away from the bad behaviors, having an addictive personality can actually be beneficial because when you get into something, you know, you are in it and you kind of obsess over it. So running was this great alternative because there is no end. You can always do more. It's there for you. You only need a pair of shoes. It was a really great substitute for a lot of these guys who were still chasing the high. I don't know if you know this, but there's a correlation of people who work out who actually tend to drink more because you're chasing the dopamine. You're looking for these opportunities to get the elevated serotonin spikes. So that's why, you know, yeah, working out can be a great, a great option for people who are struggling with addiction.

Yeah, basically addictions. I mean, I don't know shit. I just, I know my situation, but addictions don't go away. Uh, they, they just get transferred, you know what I mean?

And so our thought was, you know, we can really help to change the emotional identity and get them to like themselves, believe in themselves, put them in a positive support network and turn them into somebody who is a runner, an athlete, responsible, reliable. And then we can go advocate for them at jobs that need employees who have those types of characteristics. So Marriott became the largest employer of, of Back on My Feet, not because we were a charity, Sam, but because we actually had good candidates for them who were so appreciative to have a job in a respectable place where they got benefits, paid pretty well, and opportunity for, for growth.

By the way, what do you do like your first day? So you just quit your other job. It's a Monday. You just walked to the corner and like, Hey everyone. Or I guess the night before, like, meet me here tomorrow at 5:30. Like, I don't know if you have running shoes or not, but like, make sure, you know what I mean? Like, what do you do like the first like 5 days?

Yeah. So I was a little more organized than that. I knew I needed the shelter to, you know, work with me and give me permission. So I emailed the, I found the director of the shelter online. I emailed him. He didn't email me back. It took a little while for him to respond to me, but I I kept like badgering him and, you know, he tries to think of the nicest way to tell me that like, this isn't gonna work. These guys have bigger problems. They're not like interested in running. And I was very persuasive. I'm like, if you could please just meet me, like, I literally have ran by this shelter for 2 years. I'm not a very religious person, even though the shelter was religious, but like, I am being called to do this. Please meet with me and let, let me explain to you why I feel so compelled. So he did.

Um, and Sam, the crazy thing was, this is such a great line, by the way. I'm being called to do this. Uh, that's good.

Yeah, but it's, it's true.

I mean, yeah, totally. But it's also a good, like, it's like, that's like a, that's like a great argument.

Right. And so he met with me and this shelter, again, I didn't know anything about this shelter. It was called the Sunday Breakfast Rescue Mission. But when people enter this shelter, they, the guys have rules and they are not supposed to have any contact with women. Zero. They are there to, you know, no drugs, obviously no alcohol. They have a curfew, every rule, no women. And this guy, Mr. McMillan, like I owe a lot to him because he trusted me, believed in me, and was like, okay, I'm gonna break our rules. I'm gonna allow this woman to come in here and build relationships with these guys. And he is like, I'm not gonna tell them, Anne, that there's some, you know, young woman who wants to come run with them. I'm gonna let them, the, the participant or the members of the shelter at the time ask them if they are interested in joining a running club. That's it. And if they say yes, I'll let you do it. And, you know, I'm like waiting and waiting and a couple weeks go by and I finally get a response that says, all right, Anne, here's the names, 9 guys. These guys wanna run. And I'm like, awesome. I need their shoe sizes. So I go to a local running store, I get the shoes donated again. I'm, I can be very convincing. It's one of my superpowers. I get them to give me all new shoes because I don't want the— I don't wanna show up there in my new shoes and then give these guys, you know, crappy old used shoes because they're homeless. I just felt like that's gonna say I'm better than you and I didn't want them to feel that way. So I got shoes, shirts, socks, shorts, um, and I went up there and met them. I gotta meet them in the chapel for the first time. I introduced myself and then I made them sign a contract. And it just said, if you're gonna join the running club, you gotta show up 3 days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you have to be on time. You need to come with a positive attitude and you need to be willing to respect and support your teammates. And everybody like sat up straighter in their chair. They were waiting, at least what it felt like for me. They were waiting for someone to tell them they were capable of excellence. And expecting, I, I didn't say to them, you know what, just show up if you can. It must be tough living in here. Just, you know, do your best. If you're, please try not to be too late. It was like, these are the expectations and if you can't agree to them, then don't join the club. And if you can't agree to them, once you do join, you know, you're gonna get kicked off the team. We have to adhere to principles. So everybody showed up day one and, um, we all ran a mile. Like some of the guys cruised and got it done really quickly. And then there was, George, who took a while, like he was struggling. But we made a rule that day that nobody finished the run on their own. So everybody went back to get George and we all like brought him into the finish line together. And that like first day it was like, okay, like this is the group. And all the media was there for day one. Like I wanted to get the word out. Everybody had to come and see this for themselves. So the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Daily News, the local ABC, NBC, every, I mean, it was all of a sudden like, This thing was everywhere.

All right guys, so listen up. We're doing something a little bit different here. So we had this guy named Mr. Ballen. Mr. Ballen is one of my favorite people on earth. If you have been on YouTube or TikTok, you probably know who Mr. Ballen is. So he has tens of millions of followers and he's built this massive business on it. He's probably the best storyteller I've ever heard in my life, to be honest. And he did this amazing podcast with us that we're gonna release soon. We're not releasing the episode right away, but but we are going to give it to our true fans. And if you are one of those true fans and you do want this interview, we have a link below. So check it out, click the link in the description below and you can listen to it right away. Now back to the show. Did people cover you because you're like, uh, a charismatic— like, you got— I don't know if you had your hair like that, but like, you look like a celebrity when you have your hair like, you know, your short blonde hair and you look dope and you're charismatic. Were they covering you because you were charismatic and awesome, or because this idea was so novel? Like, how do you, how does someone who's not as cool get all this type of press?

Well, I think I'll give you this, this, this straight answer. And because this is, you know, probably a no bullshit podcast, the video and the media was like, here's this white blonde girl from North Dakota putting herself in the middle of these homeless shelters, like running with all of these men, like The camera, the story, everything about it was like, wait, what? They just kind of had to know the background. And then you add in the fact that my dad is an addict and I'm so drawn to these guys and I could never help my dad and running helped me. So now I feel like I can help people who remind me of my dad through this. And yeah, so I think it all just worked. And then once they got to— I mean, homelessness itself, right? People are like, wait, the people who are homeless are actually running? That alone made people— make their brains be like, wait, what? And then add in, you know, the young white girl from North Dakota, like, what's the connection here? So the media truly ate it up. And it was coming from such a pure place for me of like, I'm trying to heal myself from 10 years of nothing coming good from my dad's addictions and tearing apart my family. And now I get to use all that pain as fuel to help people. And, you meeting some of the guys in our program, I really think about those first 9 guys because the majority of them were charismatic and lovely and you just can't help but root for them. So once the media started to talk to Mike and to George and to James and learn their stories and the fact that they're out there working hard, I mean, it's the ultimate underdog story. And volunteers started showing up. This group started to grow and it was like, I'm like, this is an opportunity. You know, Tony Robbins talks a lot about these windows that open. I'm like, this is my window. And I had just taken a job at Comcast. I was supposed to go work there in their government affairs department, 6-figure job, like everything that my college degree, graduate degree was setting me up for, this Comcast opportunity was it. And I remember going, they asked me to go to a baseball game with a lot of like some senators and people in the political sort of world were in town and Comcast was hosting them. And I went that night and I was like, I am so bored out of my mind. There's no way that I can go take this job. Like all I wanna be doing is hanging out with the Back of My Feet members. All I'm thinking about is like this organization and how I grow it and vision. And so I called them the day I was supposed to start and I thanked them for the 6 weeks that they gave me from time off of my other nonprofit job before I was supposed to start. And I was like, I can't take this job. Like, I have found what I'm supposed to do with my life. And I'm really sorry. It's— I know it's the day before, but like, I, I gotta follow my gut on this.

How old were you?

I was 26. 26. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm asking all adults in my life, I'm thinking of doing this. Like, what do you think? And everybody's like, are you nuts? Like for your job, like you're gonna run with people in homeless shelters for your job. And I'm like trying to explain the vision, you know, and nobody got it. You know, my mom thinks I'm like irresponsible. She's wor— you know, like, what are you thinking? My dad's concerned for my safety. All my mentor boss people are like, Anne, you don't even have any savings. I had, I had no money, nothing. What was the first year's revenue or however you, uh, I'm sure I raised a million bucks in the first year. I was a—

No shit. Really? So you were a machine.

Oh yeah. And I would ask, I mean, I would ask anybody and everybody for money and I knew who to ask, Sam. I figured out that I had to find the executives who were runners in companies that could give. And so I would only meet, like Larry Solomon was my first. I had a huge article on Runner's World. It was awesome. You, you, but, but I'll also send you that. Larry lived in Philly. He was the COO of one of Accenture's, uh, vertical businesses, emailed me, amazing article, you know, rooting for you, blah, blah, blah. Well, I took one look at Larry's title and I was like, yeah, can we please have coffee? I, you know, love to tell you more. Right. Seriously. Larry is still a very good friend today, but he, um, we met and I was just like, I need your help. I want you to sit on the board. Larry had just become a runner. And I'm like, you know, I really wanna build this thing and I wanna make it big and blah, blah, blah. So he came on board and Larry, like Accenture, right? They have massive— Marriott was a client, Bimbo Bakeries, AT&T. They had so many tentacles. And I'm just like, I just need you to introduce me. I will go in and close the deal, but I need you to introduce me to the big players so that they can write the check. And I don't waste weeks or months climbing the meeting with the marketing coordinator and then the marketing director, and they just keep passing me up the chain. Like I'll never be able to raise money fast enough. So, um, yeah. And every meeting I went to, I made a specific ask, whether it was like, I need $20,450 and here's why, and I need you to pick me to 3 more people. And then I would also learn that I would, that like letting me come and speak at your corporate event or something, I was like, oh, that's, I did that one time and I'm like, oh, this is really powerful. Like now I get the whole company. You know, excited about Back on My Feet because it was just so innovative.

So what's your pitch to me? Let's say, um, let's say I'm an executive, you know, I'm, I probably spend a few hundred grand a year, uh, giving it away to causes. Um, I care about single moms. I care about animals, homeless guys. I mean, I guess that's like kind of important, but like, why should I like give a shit about you?

Well, for one, Sam, I would ask if you, you know, are you a runner? And hopefully you would say yes. I am actually. So you understand that, right? So if you're an executive, that's why I'm finishing. Perfect. So if you're an executive of this company, you understand how important culture is and how important culture is for performance and making sure your people feel appreciated and valued here. A lot of our members grew up in, in households and environments and neighborhoods where they didn't have that before. And I can tell you, being out there firsthand with all of these guys, they are some of the hardest working individuals I have ever met before, but no one's given them a chance. And if you don't have respect for people who are out there at 5:30 in the morning trying to put their life on the right track and doing the work and the effort, no one's running their miles for them. They're doing it on their own. And it's a pretty compelling sight to see. And I can guarantee you, if you give us a check, not only will, you know, the money go to helping these individuals with life, but we'll get your employees involved. You know, talk about a cause where, you know, employees can get actually involved on the ground floor running with us. We do, uh, skillset training, right? Where we teach these guys about financial literacy, helping them train them for, you know, what their next opportunity could be. But I can tell you from all the other companies we work with, we have higher employee engagement with Back on My Feet than people have had in any other nonprofit that they work with.

You make me emotional because like on this podcast and in my life, I care about making money. You know, I care about businesses and we're going to talk about Solidcore and all the traditional success that you've had. It just seems, you know, like I remember being in the hospital recently because I had like a kidney stone and I felt like I was dying. And this like Nigerian nurse was like taking care of me. And like in my head, I'm like, you, you probably have seen 5 of me today and like, you don't even make that much money, whatever. But like, you're making my life so much better right now. Like you have, you're calming me down and like you are making this stay the best as opposed to the doctor who makes way more money, but like he's just in and out. And that's sort of kind of like how I feel when I talk about this nonprofit stuff, which is making rich people richer is kind of insignificant compared to giving someone a shot or like doing something that actually matters. And so. Did you get equal fulfillment pursuing Solidcore for the sake of like wealth creation versus what you were doing with Back on My Feet?

I had a lot of fun building Solidcore and I feel really good about how I've made my wealth over the last 10 years. I mean, I get to make people's lives happier, healthier, and help people be more confident. And my team, you know, there are thousands of people who work at Solocor who love their job, who, you know, we pay people really well. I think we pay higher than any other fitness organization, our coaches on a per-class basis. Like, there are coaches who make over $300 a class because we've always done a revenue share model. And I have just never believed, Sam, that it has to be a zero-sum game. Like, yeah, should I have made the most money? Sure. Because I took all the risk, put all of the money in. Like, I have no problem saying that. Some people can disagree with me. That's fine. But do I think that my employees should have made zero?

No.

Which is why I put a, a long-term incentive plan in place for them. A profit sharing plan when I sold the business and everybody got paid. Every full-time employee who had been with Solacore for a year Got paid on that last transaction and they're gonna get paid on the next transaction as well. And I feel really good about that. So I, I would say honestly, like a similar fulfilling, but like Back on My Feet made my life make sense. So when I started to feel like it was time for my next thing, yes, I fought it and I fought it out of a few things. One, who, who am I? Like, my life is extraordinary. I get to help people all the time. Oh my God, fear. Like, what if I fail at my next thing, whatever that is? Is all this gonna be for nothing? And people will just think I'm a one-hit wonder. That definitely was something I had to work through. And I didn't really know kind of how to top that thing. You know, all the attention that it was receiving, I was receiving all the accolades. My ego was involved for sure, but I couldn't sit there and tell Back on My Feet members in our mission to push and challenge themselves you know, move, moving things forward one step at a time, growing, if I wasn't willing to do the same. So I was like, listen, I have an incredible board of like 13, 14 C-level people. There is an amazing budget, the program, the systems, the processes, the team, everything had been set up. Like I really felt like I did my job as the founder and the first CEO of the, of the organization. So it, it helped me to be able to move on to the next thing.

And then you, you go on and you do Solidcore, which if you don't know, for the listener, it's, um, a Pilates studio that's just fucking badass. You scale that out and you get to, you sell it eventually for like $300 million, but you had this story and, and you could, and you could dive deep on the numbers and, and we went through a lot of the numbers on MoneyWise, but you can go through some of the numbers. But if I remember correctly, your idea was basically like you were in LA. You, you went to a Pilates studio, you do the math and you're like, well, they have like 8 reformers here. A reformer costs this much money. I think I could do like 100 grand a month if I make this in DC or New York or wherever you made the first one. Is that, is that story right?

Yeah, pretty, pretty close. I def— I discovered it in LA and then I was back in New York and, and found another Pilates studio that had the same machines as them. And I was, then I started to do the math after I, after I went for like 30 days and I was like, I have never seen my body look like this and it's only been 30 days and I feel so good and I'm addicted to it. I was just bringing everybody I knew and then I did the math and I was like, this is an incredible business and no one's really doing it on a big scale yet.

And then what was the math?

Well, so there's 10 machines in there in this particular studio and the per class was like $30. Class and you couldn't buy membership. You had to buy every time you went.

And so how many, how many people per class?

10, 10.

Oh, sorry. Duh. And it was a full, yeah.

10 times, uh, what? Yes. It's 10. It was full every time you couldn't get into these classes. So there was 10 classes a day. Right.

Okay. So that's $300 a session times 10. So that's $3,000 a day and they're full all the time. All the time. Or they were?

All the time. Like impossible to get into class.

And you're like, $3,000 a day times 30, that's $90,000. That would be cool.

Yeah, totally. And I was, and, and I also felt, you know, one of the things that I tell people a lot when I, when I speak is like, play a game, you know, you can win. And so I knew after Back on My Feet, I had to find another game I can win. I was the the perfect person to start Back on My Feet because of my story, my experience in nonprofits, my true authenticity for wanting to help these guys. And I just had a knack for understanding systems, scalability, and process. And so with Solidcore, I knew I needed something that was authentically, authentically representative of who I was. And I am the workout queen. I mean, out of all my friends, I've done so many marathons, like, fitness and wellness has always been a key, if not the key priority. And so when I discovered this, I'm like, nobody knows you can work out like this. We're all out there jumping, pounding, you know, getting injured because it's a rite of passage to be fit. Like, this is so different and nobody knows about it. And, and I know, I know how to build community. I know how to scale. I understand branding. And I understand how to give a really good experience. Therefore, this is a game I think I can win. This is what I'm going to do next.

And how old were you for this one?

31, 30, 31, 32, 31, 32. Yeah.

And you had saved like, I think you said like $150 grand from 5 years.

Yeah.

$175 from like 5 years of running the nonprofit. And you put, didn't you tell me you put all of it into a location and Reformers? Like you like transferred the money, you like transferred it from like Anne's checking account to Solidcore's checking account, like all of it.

Yeah. And I, and I, that didn't, that didn't feel so scary because I was 100% owner in the business. So it was like, the scary part was that, that it wasn't moving the money. It was that the money was going to leave that account. Yeah.

Yeah. Did it all leave?

Oh, I mean, a high majority, but the great news was as soon as I opened, we started making money. So, you know, I had, I mean, Sam, like I was, I, I still am, but especially back then outta necessity, I was like a killer negotiator. I had to get you to root for me, you know? So I'm talking to my general contractor, you know, and it's like, listen, can we do net 60 terms? Like, if I can pay you sooner, I will. This is who I am. I started this nonprofit. This is what I'm doing now. You know, I have this money, you know, I can pay you. but I'm trying to make sure I don't like get in front of my skis. And so like I would negotiate, you know, that side of things. And the first landlord made me give 4 months of security deposit, which killed me. I was like, 30 grand that I have to give to you that like just gets to sit there. And after that, I refused to do security deposits and was very successful in making that happen. But yeah. And so as soon as like we opened and I started selling packages, I'll never forget my first my first sale. It was this woman named Amy who I still know. She was pregnant and she was like, I want to buy, you know, um, private sessions. And she went online and she bought $2,500 worth of private sessions. And I was like, I can't believe this woman just gave me all that money. She's never even done the workout. She doesn't know anything. And so, um, I trained her every day at 5:00 AM before the, the studio— like, we started class at 6:00 AM. And then, you know, once we opened, I got press. I leaned on my media contacts from back of my seat. I got an article in The Post.

Yeah, it was DC.

Yeah.

And, and so how, and how much was the startup costs?

It was, oh gosh, you can make me do math, but I know the buildout was like $150 grand, right? I had to buy the machine. I had to pay a licensing fee of $25,000 just to open the studio. That was just a licensing fee.

That's insane, right? That, that's a, that's an insane deal. Why can't I just buy a machine? It's my machine. Let me do what I want.

Oh, that's why I, that's why I ended that relationship in a couple years and went through a lawsuit. But then I had to buy the machines, which I financed cuz I couldn't afford to buy them outright. I didn't have all the cash, so I had to finance them and I was paying a monthly, you know, a monthly fee to do that. And then, and that, so those, those machines were $6,000 at that time. I know, $7,000 a piece. So that was 70 grand, but I didn't have to pay that all up front. Um, and then the rent was 9— no, sorry, 7 grand, 7 grand a month.

Damn. And what was your first month of sales?

Oh, I like, we literally did over 100 grand in the first, first month.

That's insane.

It was nuts. I mean, but it, but I was betting big and, you know, I think I told this story, but it's so good. I have to tell it. I was petrified. You know, those moments where you have that you're like, All in and you're like, oh my God, what am I doing? Larry, here comes Larry again, um, from Back on My Feet. And he's like, and listen, I'll give you $75 grand for 30% of the business. If you don't wanna use all your capital, like, listen, you grew this nonprofit. I know you're gonna be successful. You know, if you wanna keep a little cash, I'll do this deal. And back then, $75 grand, when all I had was $175,000, was a lot of money. And I, you know, I was beginning to think, It was a responsible thing to do to take this money. Maybe I should do this deal. And then I remember thinking, I have the money. And if I take his money, all I'm gonna say is this is a massive doubt in myself. I'm doubting myself. And when things really get hard, I am then gonna lean into that $75K and convince myself like, well, at least I have that, you know, like, you know, I, I don't need to, this is too hard. At least I have my $75K. And so I was like, I can't, I can't take that money. It's just gonna, it's gonna take my drive away. It's gonna take the hunger. I need to feel like I'm being chased by a bear. I need to figure this out. And that's the way this is gonna be successful. So I just, I mean, every, every hour I was passing out Solid Core pamphlets, flyers, like anything I could do to get you to come take a class. And then fortunately what happened was the same thing that happened to me when I took it. Everybody started telling their friends. And Sam, after your first class, right, you said you were so sore. Guess what everybody wants to say?

Not in a bad way, by the way.

But, but everybody wants to tell everybody how, oh my God, I'm so sore. I did this workout called Cellucor. You've gotta go. They all wanna tell each other how much they're working out. So, so it just snowballed.

Did you create the routine?

That, that was part of the license. So I got trained on what was called this method called The GRI. So we had someone come in and train me, and then I trained my trainers on how to do that. I'm not a personal trainer, like that's not my background. And so we started again using their training program for us and then soon realized that like, we actually wanna make this more athletic. These names that they're using were kind of silly. It was, it was like nothing intuitive. And then the machine started breaking. And so I was like, this relationship is doing nothing for me. I don't know why I have to be associated with Lagree. I want to make my own machines. I need to be in charge of manufacturing. The workouts don't make sense. I had hired somebody else to do the training who had a big background in MMA, and she was certified and everything else. And we started playing around with the workout. She wrote a massive training program, and then we separated from Legree and, uh, he sued me like immediately.

Which you won, I think, right? Or, uh, sorry, you, you're not allowed to say.

Well, I mean, it's far enough down, but for all intents and purposes, he had to buy back his machines from me and we agreed to never, to never talk again, which we haven't. So, and, and frankly, after we did that, all these other people who were part of Legree then also started to make their own machines, realizing like Why are we paying a massive premium on machines? This isn't a franchise, so we're not getting the benefit of a national brand here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like it just didn't make any business financial sense. So yeah. And then making my own machines, like that was a huge gamble. I didn't know how to do that, obviously. And like tooling, engineering, manufacturing prototypes, I probably spent, lost a couple hundred grand just because I didn't know what I was doing. Maybe probably even more than that. But like, we got a machine, it wasn't right. I already like it, like it didn't work properly. Like we had to redo it. It was a mess.

What was your first year's revenue?

The first year revenue? I think you asked me this last time and I had—

I think you said a million dollars, right?

Well, the first, it was more than that because that was the first studio's revenue. And then in the first year, you know, I had 5 of these open.

So you had— I didn't know you had 5 at the end of the first year. Yeah, that's insane, right?

Yeah, but same thing. I'm like, momentum, momentum, momentum. Have you ever heard the funny story about Subway? And I don't know if it's true or not, but like, I just love it, so I keep telling it. But Subway had one location and they were like off the beaten path and they weren't doing that great, so they thought, you know, we need to open a second one because people will think if we have 2 that we're killing it. And I like remember hearing that story. I'm like, that's so brilliant. And even though we were killing it, I was like, I need to maximize on this and get 2 and 3 and 4 open so that people start being like, I'm seeing this thing everywhere. I must be missing out. They must be doing so well. This thing must work. And that really like served us really well. So we just kept reinvesting the profits into the next studio. I kept negotiating, you know, as long, like longer terms to pay back if I needed to. Um, and I just stopped doing security deposits with landlords.

How old was the business when you sold each different chunk? Because you sold it a couple times, right?

Yeah. So I did a minority deal in 2017. So the business was 4 years old at that point, and we had 27 locations. On an annualized basis, each one of those studios was doing about $700 grand.

Okay. So 27 times 700, that's, uh, uh, roughly $19 million in revenue.

Yeah.

You sold the business for what valuation, or you sold a chunk for what valuation?

I did a pretty big valuation back then. So the valuation was like close to $60 million.

Wow.

Um, yeah. And people, people, the, the, the firms definitely balked at that. And I just said, listen, it's not so much about the number. It's about the terms. And I know how much money I need to get to 100 studios, and that's $12 million, because I'm gonna continue to use the profits. And I also wanna take secondary off of the table. And, and obviously no one liked that, especially that early. And I was like, listen, these are, those are the terms. Like, don't, don't get so freaked out about the terms. Tell me what you need in order to do this deal. And so there was a, a healthy press on the, the minority deal that I agreed to, and I had no problem doing that. And I remember too, people were like, you know, Anne, well, how do we know you're not gonna walk away for $6 million? And I'm like, I would like, I would just sell the whole business if that was the case. Like, you think I'm in this for $6 million?

Like, which is such a good way to like approach it. You are good. I'm really bad at negotiating. Um, like all my staff knows that, like, don't come to Sam about salary discussions because my default is like, I just say I just say, you gotta talk to this other person about that because I just say yes to, I just say yes to everything. So I've like removed myself from negotiation because I'm too nice and like, well, how do you think I got on this podcast? I know. Like I said, well, I don't, that, that would sound like a backhanded compliment. It's not, but, uh, I, I'm just, I'm soft as fuck. Like I just, I just, I'm like, yeah, I'll do whatever you want. I'll do. But to approach like a negotiation of like, well, don't say no, just tell me what you need. To win, and I'll see if I can actually make that happen for you. And, but then in order for you to win, it has to take into account, here's what I need.

Exactly. And so I, I did that with landlords and, you know, and private equity. It's like, you know, landlord would always block, like, we, we always do security deposits. I'm like, that's not really a response, right? Like, what are you trying to protect against? Right? You have a corporate guarantee, you have X, like, help me understand. This and I can try to solve the problem a different way. So I, I solve the private equity problem with the preferred return. You know, it's like your downside is per— I'm not gonna see another dime until you make, you know, the 2.5x your money.

That's just such a funny response. We always, well, why do I have to give a deposit? Because we've always do deposits. Yeah. Well, that, that's not a, that's not a good reply. Give me a different reply. That's the best. That is the best.

Yeah. And it, it really, it really does work because you make them articulate what's important to them. And usually what's important to landlords is, you know, the ledger, the balance sheet of the total, you know, term of the deal. And I'm, you know, so that's why we were able to push rent a little bit further down the road and like increase the rent in year 5 or 6 and, you know, okay, you're protected on the corporate guarantee, you know, front. So like, you know, you have 3 years, so I'm not gonna do a security deposit. And let me tell you why that's important for me and why it benefits you. Because the more I get open, the bigger the brand is, you know, it's going to get more brand equity and, you know, this location will do better. So yeah, I think people, all people can do a better job of, of negotiating. And it's one of the really amazing skill sets to, to learn. Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference. I love that book. I read that book during COVID because I really had to get good at negotiation.

And what's the, what's like the, the, the summary of that?

Well, he just goes through these different strategies, right? About like. Mirroring. And he gives this ex— one of my favorite examples was he gives this of a car. He goes in, he is like, listen, I have, call it $10,300. You know, that's the car that I want. And just say it was like 15 grand or something. And the guy comes back and is like, okay, great news. I got it down to 14. He is like, wow, thank you so much. I really appreciate you advocating for me. But the number of the, the amount of money I have right now hasn't, hasn't changed. I still have $10,300. If you can do the deal for that, you know, I'm, I'm here. Goes back, comes down more, gets to like, call it 11.3. And at that point he knows, right? Because he hasn't moved. He knows you're not walking away. You are, you're so close. The guy's gonna do the deal. And I remember using that strategy a lot as well in negotiating. You get people to come and come, come, and now they're just too close that they're not gonna move away. So the whole point is like not meeting in the middle.

Wait, so is the point is then do you go to $11,000 or do you stick at $10,500?

He's stuck. He's stuck because that guy is so close now. He's not gonna walk away when it's like 800, you know, used to be $5 grand away. Now you're just $800 grand or sorry, $800 away. So he like ends up getting, you know, the deal done and he just goes through different strategies in there on how you can mirror, you know, this is what I hear you saying. Yes. You know, and like, don't walk away when you hear a no, like a no doesn't have to be a bad thing. So me and my lawyer, um, who I had on staff at that point, who's just a jack of all trades and unbelievable, you know, we read that book, Sam, because during COVID we knew it's like, what's gonna kill us? What's gonna kill this company is not that we don't have revenue coming in right now. It's if these landlords sue us and make us pay rent. And no one really understood who was right or wrong then, you know, it's like, well, this is a force majeure. It's like, well, we don't have any money coming in. How do you expect us to pay rent? So we just said, we just have to get the landlords on our side. We have to figure out a way to restructure the deal that doesn't allow us to pay rent when we are closed. And we also can't kick the can down the road, you know? So we came up with strategies like, how about we lengthen the term of the lease? We'll add another year or two to the back end of the lease, you know, so that you have a longer tenant. Like, if you force us to pay rent, you're not gonna get another dime from us. You know, 'cause we're gonna go bankrupt, but if you work with us, or maybe we increase the rent, you know, year 8, 9, and 10 to make up some of the difference for this. But we know that we couldn't in a year from now have this like, okay, you owe rent for those 3 months and give us a check for $90K. We had 75 studios. Like there was just no way we were gonna recover from that. So anyway, um, those kinds of things, you know, people talk about how COVID killed so many gyms and a lot of that was not just because of COVID it was because of these operational and financial decisions that weren't like made as smartly as maybe, um, some other companies could have made and not understanding what was gonna be the demise of them.

When you, when you completely got out, it was like what, $300 million valuation?

Yeah, a little, little more than that, but yeah. Um, and that was last April. Last April I got, I sold all my shares.

How old was the business then?

9 and a half years.

That's a great run. And when you look at like what made you guys great, was it operational excellence? Was it because your brand was cool? Was it because the workout was better than any anywhere else? Like, what's like the honest assessment of like, these were the one or two factors that set us apart from Barry's Bootcamp or whoever else is you consider to be competition or all the mom and pops out there?

Yeah, the workout is incredible and I'm glad you've gone to it because you can understand a little bit what I'm saying. It's just like unlike anything that was ever out there and now there's a lot more Pilates out there. but we had speed to market. We are the dominant player, you know, in this space. And, uh, we have a pretty cool full brand. So I think the aesthetics, we know what our brand is, right? The whole tagline is create the strongest version of yourself. And I think the company is still doing a really good job of leaning into that. One of my favorite campaigns we did was it's not for everyone. And we really went in and like, this isn't, this may not be for you, but it's for somebody, you know, it was almost like a Nike commercial. It's like, if you like to push yourself, those are great commercials. Yeah. Yeah.

And the, the, the Nike, you're talking about the Nike Olympic ones?

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And like winning, winning's winning, not for everyone. So we did, we did this campaign a few years ago and it really like, people, people watch that and it's like, I want that to be for me. I'm tough. I'm strong. I like to push myself. I wanna grow. I can handle tough things. And so I think there's this aura of, if you know somebody who does Cellucor, you're like, I know who you are. Like, I, I know exactly the type of person you are. You're driven, you're ambitious, you like to work hard. You're not afraid of the work. You're not— the, the work is actually the joy for you. You want to feel good at the end of the day knowing you put your all and tried your best at like everything you did. So I think the brand ethos is definitely a big part of our success. And don't get me wrong, again, operationally, I'm a pretty good operator.

Are you like pretty good where you're like, you're actually the best, like you're top? No. Or are you like, That's like, I'm pretty good at it, but it's maybe not the best, the, the thing that I'm best at.

Yeah. I'm great at putting systems processes in place, but like, I'm not the right person to run Solidcore today, if that makes sense. No, like it's too big. It's too, uh, monolithic. It's like, I just, I move quickly and that's not actually what you need. You need somebody like Brian who's much more methodical, analytical, patient.

I think that for most entrepreneurs who are like new, I think that branding and some of these exercises aren't terribly important, but I think that if you have a proven track record where you're like, um, this person executes well and they execute, when you have that track record, which I think I do, like for all my businesses now, I spend a lot of time on branding, um, where I'm like, what is this? How does this make someone feel? Like the colors, the name, things like that. And that, like I said, that's, I don't think that's important for most people when they're just starting out because it's like, you just got to get started and get some traction. With you guys, you kind of, it seems like you came out the gate with good branding and you're kind of in that, that boat, by the way, where like this is your second company and you like, it's like, no, you execute it. So it's okay to like kind of sweat this up or think this stuff through. Who inspired you for your branding and where, what was the exercise that you went through?

Yeah, we're, we're similar there. I'm, I love the branding and marketing as, as well. So I, I, I did that for Back of My Feet and, and, and Solidcore in the beginning. You know, like with Back on My Feet, it just, the name itself. I remember someone telling me like, oh, you should call this thing the Homeless Runners Association of America. And I was like, that alone will make the thing fail because it doesn't sound cool. It doesn't, you know what I mean? It sounds like one of these every other organization that just like, ugh, you know? And I wanted us to be cool and coming up with the name for Solidcore, it was just like reiterating a bunch of names and like, oh, that just has it. That just makes you sound badass. Like, you know, when people are like, oh, that's solid. Like, obviously, like, the core piece has, you know, lots of double meanings and whatever. And then the brackets, I thought, could indicate like your obliques and the tightness and community and together. And so I was like, this is it. It just, it just kind of looks cool. And they, you know, we haven't done a, a redo of the logo or anything. Like, it just kind of stuck around. And the brackets, I mean, I have I don't know if you can see, but I have like a bracket now. I lifted up my shirt for you too. I have a bracket. I have a bracket tattoo. Again, I just always feel like things need to be cool for people to want to be a part of them. And so I didn't want to spend a ton of stupid money on branding and marketing for another idea that probably would've worked also. But one of my mantras is that there's more than one right answer, and this was like a right enough answer.

I want to ask you, uh, about some ideas, but you, um, you kind of caught the Pilates thing like at the right time. That one. Well, um, what fitness-related businesses excite you right now? You're— when you were talking about, uh, a few— you're talking about something when I started thinking of Hydra. It's called Hydrix. Have you seen Hydrix? H-Y-D-R-O-X. Hydrix, I think it's called.

Yeah.

Is it Hydrix?

I'm sorry, but like the competition.

Yes. The competition in New York. I like, I went and saw it. It is awesome. It is awesome. Like I saw that and I'm like, oh, this is like gonna be a, this is, I mean, it's already a thing, but it's like, this is like really gonna be a thing. Are there any things that you see where you're like, this is, this is like, uh, gonna pop?

Well, this, I will talk about Boutique Fitness in a second, but one of the things that my husband and I and a bunch of friends just did is 29.029. Have you heard of this event?

Yes, the founders in Hampton. Did you talk to them, Mark?

Yeah, I did talk to Mark.

Yes. So I'm going to go to— they're releasing the schedule soon. I'm going to one of them.

You got to go. We just did it. So the 29029 is the elevation of Everest. So they created this event where they partner with ski mountains for the most part around the country. And you have to climb whatever the number of times up that mountain that's the equivalent of Everest. So we were in Mont-Tremblant, which is in Canada. And our mountain was about 2,200 elevation. So we had to climb this thing 15 times, 1.7 mile. And it was, it was steep. And I'm like a marathoner. I've done these things. I really was like, I'm just walking, you know, up a, up a hill. Like I'll be fine. Completely different than anything I've ever done before for the pure duration. Like if you think it takes you 60 to 90 minutes to get up these things, you know, you're out there for 15 to 20 hours, some people longer. Like, some people literally had to be on their feet for 30 hours to get the 15 hikes in for the time that you're allotted because you have 36 hours. It is unbelievably inspiring, the people that are there, because most people are there because they're going through a divorce, they're fighting some health battle, they've lost 100 pounds, they've got something, you know, bigger going on in their life, and they need to show themselves that they can climb the effing mountain. Physically so that they can go back and do it, you know, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, whatever. And it's just awesome. Like, it's awesome.

Yeah. And his business is wild, basically. I think they sell out like most all their events now. Uh, I think it's like $5,000 to go and they provide the accommodations and it's not, you're not slumming it. It's like really nice stuff. Um, and so you think that's like going to take off?

I think things like that, like, I think there's going to be high rocks. Love it. Innovation. There was a CrocFit CrossFit Games. I think you're going to start to see more events. You know, remember when like Ragnar and some of the, you know, Ragnar Relay?

No, what's that?

Oh my gosh. So Ragnar used to have—

it's like, how do you spell it?

R-A-G-N-A-R. It might still be going on. I just don't know anybody who does it anymore. But it was these relays where you had two vans and you had like 24 hours to run hundreds of miles and like you're, you're, you're literally driving through the night. Like your vans are moving on. There's stations or it was just, again, so cool. I don't really know if it's still going on, but it is. I think it is. Okay.

And, and the company that owns it, I think they own like a bunch of different events now.

Yeah. So I think that because I do, I really think that there's this continued movement. I mean, I know you don't drink. I really don't drink. A lot of my friends don't want to be partying. Like, everybody is looking, at least in my group, for like physical fun activities to be doing with their time. And I think these sort of endurance challenge events of all sorts are going to continue to grow and pop up all over the place because that's how I think a lot of people want to spend their time. And I'll tell you, I didn't have my phone with me for the entire time I hiked. I refused to bring it with. And I just am craving being out in nature, challenging myself physically. And I think a lot of other people are too. So you're going to see more of that. I think a lot. And then from the boutique—

by the way, Mark told me, he was like, I was like, what makes you guys special? And he was like, well, he like gave a big breakdown, but he was like, one of the things is that we make it so like most of the people are going to fail. Like we want it to be hard enough to where if you get done with it, It's a big deal to you and you're gonna wanna talk about it. He's like, most events, they actually make it where too many people succeed. And so he was like talking about how like the mindset behind making that event.

But you know what they do really well? So the ascents, they, they list different mountains, so you actually don't feel like you're failing. So even though you may have not made it to Everest, like if you climbed 10 of those, you made it to Kilimanjaro. So they give you a medal, a Kilimanjaro medal. Instead of like, did you get all to all of it?

You did all of it?

Yeah.

Did you almost quit at all or were you like, no, I'm getting this no matter what?

Well, Mark will tell, Mark will tell you. So I, I didn't get any sleep the night before and I actually had like a mini meltdown and I'm like, I'm, I, I don't do well with sleep deprivation. I'm not gonna be able to do this. And so I was on 3 hours of sleep and my strategy was I'm just gonna do as many as I can, as fast as I can before I hit a wall. So I was on pace to probably finish within the top 5, and I, at my 11th lap, it just, you know, like, have you ever done an endurance event and like the wall, it just happens and it happened. And I made it up the mountain halfway in the time that it was taking me to reach the whole thing. I had to sit in the med tent for 45 minutes. I'm asking them, I'm like, I can't, I can't keep going. I need to go down to the mountain. Does my half of lap count so I can come back tomorrow? And they're like, No. And I was like, I'm like, what? Like, and now I really can't go down. And I just couldn't get myself together. And along comes Mark and he gives me Coke. Like, not that kind of Coke. He gives me Coca-Cola.

Coca-Cola.

Yeah. And he was like, yeah, he's like, you're going to do this. I'm going to walk up the second half of the mountain with you. You know, you're not going to go back down. I can see it in your eyes. You know, like, you're not somebody who needs to go back down. So, like, yeah, I took that shot of Coca-Cola and, like, Got up and we made it up the second half of the mountain and then I went down and went to bed and finished my next 4 in the morning. But yeah, Mark like came along and saved me.

You had this, um, you put in the notes, you said, um, the number 1 reason we had to let people go was because they lacked proper judgment and critical thinking skills. You said, what I discovered was that the best critical thinkers are great at taboo because you have to think on your feet and be strategic when you describe the word you wanna get people to say. What's Taboo? I don't even know what that is.

Yeah. So Taboo is a game where you like have teams and you get a card and at top of the card says a word. Say, let's say it says, you know, book, and you have to get your team to say that word. But underneath that word book is 5 words that you can't say to get them to say it. So it might say like page or reading or things like that. So you have to think creatively and I have to know who's on my team, you know, so like. How would, how would I get Sam to say this, you know, say this word? And like, there are people who crush that game. And from my experience, whenever we've played on a retreat or something, the people who get stuck or flustered or can't think on their feet, whatever, usually don't work there very much longer. And I'm like, there has to be a correlation between this game, the ability to figure, figure it out of like, who's on your team? How do you make this happen? Thinking on their feet. And some of the smartest people that I think are my friend group are also excellent at that game. So there's something there.

You also said something like, um, you're like, well, uh, AI is taking over fitness and, uh, you can personalize data, supplements, exercise, food based on individuals. So for example, if you're a 44-year-old woman, a 44-year-old woman who wants to gain 10 pounds of muscle, we know your blood work, we know this about you, we know that about you. Here's the program that you're gonna be using.

Yeah.

Or you should be using. Is there anyone in the space who you like who's taking advantage of that insight?

Yeah. So I'm, um, I'm an advisor, um, and an investor, so I will disclose that to a company called OXFIT and they are an at-home, um, it's sort of like Tonal, but I think it's much more comprehensive and better. And their AI game is really progressing to do just that. It knows when you're tired, it knows certain things, you know, how you're lifting the weight, you're imbalanced, whatever. And they are really investing in the AI. So that they can partner and you can add your blood work in and you can add every sort of data point that you have about yourself and then what your goals are. And it will design again, like, exactly what you need to be doing. And I think we're really— I think that's going to start to take off in a lot of different areas. But listen, you know, there's a lot of people who are still just like checking the box. And I think that's why they get frustrated because they're not doing the right things for the results that they want. And it's a little bit of a guessing game. You know, not knowing your metabolism, not knowing your deficiencies, not knowing, you know, again, your age or your hormones and how all these things are affecting the workouts that you do. So I think that's just gonna continue to, to within 5 years, I think it'll be kind of foolish to just be like guessing on what you should be doing to work out.

I've had a, a handful of friends, um, get diagnosed with cancer recently and One of my friends detected it because he did one of these like Prenovo or something like that. One of those like, uh, scans that you just pay money for. And I've like, in 50 years or some amount of decades, we're going to look back and we're going to think it's insane that you had cancer growing inside of your body. And it could have been okay. Had you just been told that it was there. And it's like, you've got this like foreign thing in your body. that led— you don't know about it. And that's kind of a— that we accepted that's normal now, but I think that in some time in the future, we're not— we're going to be unwilling to accept that. And so I'm personally really interested in that. I am also, uh, personally quite interested in like figuring out exactly the fitness or diet that works for me. I can't, uh, based off of blood work, I don't think I've seen a product out there that's doing it, that's nailing that though yet. Um, I think a lot of it's like pseudoscience. I just, I think it's, it's none of it's like awesome at the moment. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I agree. And I, and I think I, it, it will get there because if people can figure that, if they, if people can figure that out, and again, imagine if you've been so frustrated your entire life to not see the results when you're willing to do the work, when you're willing to put in the effort and like it's still not happening. I just think it's only a matter of time with where we are with Yeah, the, the AI stuff and, uh, the demand for it, frankly.

Are you gonna start another company?

No, sir. Not right now. Not right now. I'm, I know too much. I know too much. Like the beauty of starting companies is, I think a lot of times is naivete. And I'll also be truly honest that like some, and the, the financial motivation is a little bit gone. Of course, you know, I really felt with Back of My Feet and Solid Core that I'm like doing one, I was very into them both, but two, it was like, I'm going to make people's lives better. I felt like I'm the perfect person to do that. So I haven't had— and I'm also not looking for it right now. But if I have that experience again where I come across something or I'm moved or I'm like, I have to do this, that is when I will do it. But for now, I just feel like I'm giving myself some freedom, some time to, to field this new chapter.

Are you like seeking anything or you're just like, like, cause that's like an interesting mindset, uh, that, that I've been in before and I don't know if I approached it the best way, but it's like the mindset, um, uh, I'm just gonna go out and live and I'm gonna be, my ears are open and if I get called.

Yes. I'm just going to live right now and Yeah, I think even if I got called right now, Sam, I wouldn't— I don't know if I could do it.

Like, because you're tired or you're happy?

Exactly. It's not tired. I'm actually very energized. But you've read the book Die with Zero. Yeah, I think we talked about that, right? So I'm just, you know, I want to be playing. Like, I'm trying to stay in my feminine because I've been in my masculine a lot in my life. And like, I want to have room prioritizing playing. And for me, that is beach volleyball. It's any kind of sports. It's connecting with friends and family and being able to be a little bit carefree. And I don't want to put so much rigid structure back in my schedule. I just feel like I need a breather from that and I, and I'm not willing, I'm not willing to do it.

All right. So we are about to wrap up and Anne was like, you got to talk about this idea. All right. What's this idea? I read it, but I need you to explain explain it better. So you've got this idea. Tell me about Jumpseat.

Yeah. So I, um, so you've all been at the airport, right? And like your flight gets canceled or delayed and you're desperate to get home and you, of course, like you go up to the airlines and they can't do anything because they're not gonna kick anybody else off of the flight. They don't care about your status and whatever. And so the idea for Jumpseat is very much like Ticketmaster or something else where there's a platform where, let's just say Sam, again, your flight got canceled and you're like, damn it, I have to get home. You go on Jumpseat and you offer you $1,000 for any seat on any flight going back to— where do you live?

Uh, let's say I'm going back to, uh, New York.

Okay. So you're going back to New York and like you put the offer out there and all someone has to do is accept your offer. You trade seats. They now are on your flight whenever that flight gets rescheduled, but they don't have the same timeline that you do to get home. So it's like, no problem. And it can work in reverse where if I'm at the airport and I'm like, you know, I have a flight back to Miami, but like I'm in no rush, I'm gonna put my seat up for sale. And if someone else wants to get home sooner, they can buy my seat.

Well, it's like SeatGeek for plane tickets where it's like, uh, someone owns them, but if you own it, you can auction off your—

Totally.

You can auction it off.

But think about, think about how much happier customers would be and the airlines where you could build in the airline to take a little bit of the cut. So now I'm a happier Delta customer because I solved my own problem, even though Delta couldn't solve it, but they're allowing this platform and you can even do it for seats. So let's just say I'm on a flight and I'm sitting in 32A and I'm like, I really want to fly first class. This person has first class. They don't really care. They put up their seat for like $500 and they'll come back and take my economy seat. And now I get to sit in first class.

Would you ever pursue this?

No, because I don't think this is a game I can win. I'm not like a tech person or something. That's why I want, like, I, I want this product so I can use it. So that's why I want somebody who's like, oh my God, this makes so much sense.

And you fell in love with the name Jumpseat. That's a good name.

It's a great name. And I have a logo and everything.

Like, so do you really?

It's so good. I'll send it to Ari. You can see it.

How could, how could someone— wait, would you actually work with someone if they wanted to? If you wanted to, how would you want to give away how could someone contact you? Like, could they just DM you on Instagram?

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you can figure out how to find me, you're not the right person to totally So yeah.

Uh, how much do you think? Well, whoever owns jumpseat.com, they're, they're just sitting on it and not using it. You own jumpseat.com?

Yeah, of course I own it.

How much did you pay for this?

Like $5 or something?

Not much. Jumpseat.com was $5.

I bought it years ago. I've literally had, I've had this idea for such a long time and I'm like, just make the logo. You know, like I had my friend make the logo and it's, it's really good. Um, it's, it's It's the name is so perfect. It's like, what? I can just trade seats and, and people are like, oh my God, airlines are never gonna allow that. And I'm like, they already allow aggregates like Expedia and, you know, they're already in their backend system and this solves a problem for them and they can make more money by just taking $5 off of every time someone switched seats. Why would, you know, why would they care?

This is so funny. I thought this was a half-baked thing. So you're, you're in.

I mean, I would love for someone to do it. I'll give you the— wait, I won't give it for you. You can, you can give me a little bit of equity in the company and you can, you can run with it, but you're gonna have to convince me why you're the right person to, to do it.

What would they have to say to convince you?

Well, I'd have to know again why it's a game they can win. What's their background? Do they have the tech? Do they have any, you know, connections in the airline industry? Have they ever built anything like this before? You know, why would this be interesting to them? Um, do they know how to scale and, and build something? Like, do they have the tech experience? Experience, which I don't have at all.

That's so funny. I like went to jumpseat.com and I'm like, oh hey, it's registered but no one's using it. Uh, I did not realize you're this— you're this far down. All right, so they're gonna— well, here's what I want to know. You're gonna have to message me and I'll have to do a, um, I'll do a shout out like if there ever are any results, but you have to let me know how many people message you and if anyone's actually promising.

Okay, I will.

I said it last time, it felt like I was like Uh, like being not genuine because I was so happy, but you're, um, you inspire the shit out of me and, uh, you're one of my favorite people on earth. I, I have found myself, um, since we last talked, like approaching a situation, I mean, like, what would Anne think about this? Um, and so I just want to thank you for being part of my life and, um, doing these podcasts. You're the best. You mean a lot to me.

That's really sweet. We'll get you a t-shirt, Sam, that says, what would Anne do? Just kidding.

That would be great. That would be great. As long as it's a crop top.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. As long as it's a crop top, then it's good. And it must be at least 2 sizes too small. Yeah. Uh, uh, I appreciate you. Thank you very much. Um, that's the pod.