I Spent 48 Hours With MrBeast To Learn Business From Him (#355)

So he's got a runner. Basically, he's got a dude outside the house at all times, just sitting in his car 24 hours a day. It's a personal DoorDash. So if he ever needed something, I don't know if you noticed, he was like, oh, I want to play Settlers of Catan. So he's like, hey, can you go get Catan? And the guy would just run to the store, go get Catan, bring it back within 15 minutes. What?

He was outside our house? The whole time.

And he's outside the studio. Wherever he goes, these two people are there. 12-hour shifts each. So 24 hours a day. He's got somebody just watching his back.

All right. So I guess we're all going to— we all want to talk about the same thing, right?

Yeah. This is going to be the Camp MFM recap episode. I'm pretty sure that's all we're going to talk about because it was kind of amazing and I got a lot of things to say.

I have a lot of things to say. Let me set the background because you're the one who organized it. So I think you need a third party here. So basically a month ago, Sean said, I'm going to organize a basketball weekend and I want you to come and I'm going to invite some other people. Please Venmo me $1,800 and show up at this address at this time. That's pretty much all I knew about. I didn't know anything else. And I think it was 3 weeks in advance, right?

Yeah, something like that. 3, 4 weeks in advance. And in between then it got sort of canceled and put back on again because I didn't know that. First, I couldn't get anybody to come. I invited 5 people. The first of the first 5 people, only one said yes. And I was like, yeah, maybe be— maybe, maybe this idea is only good in my head. And Ben, not producer Ben, business partner Ben, pushed it through. He was like, nah, I think we could do it. And then we ended up with like 27 people there.

And oftentimes when I'm saying Sean is doing X, Y, and Z, in reality I mean Ben. So Ben was— it seemed like was really the backbone here. You maybe had the idea. I don't know who had the idea, but Ben Levy was the guy and he did a really good job. So basically 3 weeks out, it just says, hey, come to North Carolina in Raleigh, near Duke, and we're going to have a basketball camp and just show up. That's all I knew. And then I get an email. I booked my flight. I sent you $1,800. I, I, I— a day before you sent out who's coming. And it was like me and you, both Bens, a couple of HubSpot people like Jonathan. And then it was like Hasan Minhaj. It was MrBeast. And it was like 20 other really amazing entrepreneurs. And you rented out this Shoot, I don't know, like, uh, basically a farm.

It's like a winery.

Yeah, yeah, with like a lake and a zip line going into the lake. And it was like 24 entrepreneurs, and you hired this amazing basketball trainer who was also an entrepreneur, so he like fit in and was really insightful. And we, uh, you had like, you kind of half-assed the incredibly unimportant things. Like, there was like, when we went and played basketball, I was like, hey, is there any food here? And you're like, well, there's just a bunch of boxes of Clif Bars. Uh, and like, oh, okay, that's okay. I'm okay with half-assing that thing. So anyway, we all stayed in these two Airbnbs and just played like board games and like acted like 12-year-olds for, uh, like 2 nights. And it was amazing. It was so cool.

Yeah, it was basically a summer camp for grownups. And, um, the origin of it is pretty simple. Like, I like, I love meeting new people. I should say, I actually genuinely love meeting new people. In fact, the podcast was originally started as an excuse to just get to talk to really fascinating, interesting people. But I hate most of the traditional ways to do it. I don't like going to conferences. I don't like going to networking events. I hate just being like, hey, you want to grab coffee? So I basically was like, look, there's a bunch of people who I think are dope. I would love to hang out with them, get to know them. You know, strangers become friends, friends become lovers, that whole thing. And then finally, I was like, what if I just did it instead of a networking event or a conference? Like, what if we just did it with something that, uh, it would be dope no matter who came. And so we had this idea for a basketball getaway and we're like, all right, here's the criteria. They love basketball. Number 2, they're a great hang and number, which is just great hangout with. And number 3, that they can teach us something because they're a baller in their own craft, whatever that craft is. And so that's why we had people who in the house that had built billion-dollar companies. We had people who bootstrapped their way into, you know, tens of millions, and that's where they were. We had people that were entertainers like MrBeast or Hasan, who had millions and millions of fans and were creative talents. We had people that used to be in the NSA. We had a bunch of people from different backgrounds come up and, uh, and join this thing. So that was the criteria, and that's basically how it played out. And I'm pretty sure, by the way, that it was the best weekend of Ben's life. Like, Ben, I don't know if you got married Ben Wilson. I don't know if you got married over the weekend, but I want to talk about Ben.

I want to talk about Ben in the middle or the end, but I have a feeling— I told Ben before we recorded, I go, Ben, the next 6 months in your life are, I think, are gonna have the most change you've ever experienced in your life.

Totally agree. Totally agree with that. In fact, I was gonna text you something very, very similar, which is like, I don't know if you realize this yet, but your life is about to change, uh, because you can't really go through You can't just be surrounded by wildly ambitious people who like and believe in you and spend time, you know, seeing other people who have realized their dream come true and not go back to your house and look at yourself a little differently in the mirror. Like you're gonna look at yourself and be like, all right, let's turn that ambition knob up two notches, right? Let's ha— let's turn that faith and belief in myself up because I saw that these people are no smarter, better than me. They're just people like me. There's, They just went for it, dude.

And all those smarter, all those quote smarter, quote better, quote more successful people were looking up to Ben. Did you notice that?

Yeah. Well, there was just a feeling of— I wouldn't even say looking up necessarily. It's more like equals. I think everybody, everybody there viewed themselves as an equal to everybody else. I'm sure everybody there had a moment where they were like, dude, I'm way out of place. Some people are like the basketball. They're like, oh, you know, I, I play basketball, but I'm not really like that into basketball. So some people maybe felt out of place there a little bit. Some people felt out of place in the house cuz they didn't know anybody. They saw everybody else, you know, half the people knew the other half, but, but some people knew nobody coming in and half the people, and then some people I bet fell outta place cuz they said, wow, I'm talking to this guy who's, you know, leaps and bounds further ahead in their business career. But everybody had to deal with that and then come to terms with that. And I think that's, you know, part of, it's part of the, part of the challenge.

So say your piece, Ben, and then I wanna actually wanna come back to you and then me and Sean. Sean, I want to go like, you go, I go, you go, I go of like the things that we learned this weekend. Cause I know that you have a list and I have a list.

Yeah. Great. So Ben, do a quick one first.

Uh, there's just so much to say. It was one of the best weekends of my life. It was so amazing. Sean, I just, I guess I would ask, there's like a really special feeling that is very difficult to convey, uh, throughout the entire weekend. You guys touched on it a little bit of just like no egos, even though people are at very different places. Like there was just this really feeling of openness and connection. And like, even though there were these really, really successful people in all these different domains, like very little dick swinging, like everyone just, uh, on the same level learning from each other. Uh, it was very cool. Sean, like what do you think it was that went into this weekend that created that environment where people were able to like feel that way and be that way with each other?

I think it's 3 things. You actually mentioned 2 of them. First was the weekend felt very special. And I think that when you, when people feel like they're a part of something bigger than themselves, when people, uh, have a little bit of awe or intrigue or curiosity or fear even, they get out of, they're out of their comfort zone. And so part of it was if you make something that, that feels special, that feels different, that inspires some awe or some they, they don't know what's coming next. It brings everybody back to sort of like an equal footing of the sort of a childlike thing. I remember when, uh, so we invited Alex Bazile, who's a trainer to, to a bunch of NBA stars like Kyrie Irving and Trae Young. And this guy's like, you know, he's like the top of his craft. He trains like— he came from training like, you know, Kevin Durant to us. He sent us a clip. He's like, here's what I was doing today. Tomorrow I'll be seeing you schmucks. And like, right, like You know, but that first 5 minutes, I would say when he had us doing very simple like drills, everybody was spread throughout this whole private gym that we had rented and we're all literally dribbling the ball almost accidentally in unison, like that old Nike commercial where all the, the thing, the beats sync, sync up. There was little pockets, little moments like that where it just felt special. And, um, you know, so, so I think that's the first piece is you gotta give people a feeling that they're part of something bigger than themselves. Number 2, um, you invite people who are inherently curious. So everybody there, I would say, actually has an ego. Everybody there has an ego, otherwise they wouldn't get to where they were. But bigger than their ego is their curiosity. And so as long as you can create the curiosity factor where, who's this person? Oh, they're interesting. Oh, they're interesting. They're interesting. Then again, the attention go— they're so used to attention being on them. They're so used to being the most interesting person in the room. So you want people who are naturally curious about the people around them. So even the sort of quote unquote celebrities or kind of the big hitters that we had in the house that were maybe the, the wealthiest or the most popular people that were there, I picked specifically people that in my limited interaction with them, they were very curious. Like for example, um, when you had first met MrBeast, you met him before we did. You were like, yeah, he just called me and he was like, yeah, I'm on this walk. I do this every night. I just call somebody and say, yo, teach me something. And already I know everything I need to know about this person. Same thing when Hasan came on the podcast. He asked me more questions than I asked him. I felt bad afterwards. I was like, dude, I just blew the podcast because he was asking me questions I'm supposed to ask him. Nobody gives a shit about me. They wanted to know from him. But that showed me like he would fit into this group because he would be curious about, oh, what's this real estate guy doing? What's this guy doing who's rolling up like those claw machines at amusement parks and pinball machines? And like, that's what this guy does. And he's building a little mini empire doing that. Right? You need somebody who's curious. Otherwise they would just be like, that's weird, I don't know, stay away from me, right? You're different.

Okay, what's your third?

I would say the third was the immersion. So it wasn't like a— you couldn't get away, for better or for worse. Like, normally you go to a dinner, you sit there for 3 hours, it's sort of a safe space, you know the routine, and then you leave and you get to go back to your place. So you can, you can stay surface level with a lot of people. With this, it's like, dude, I'm sleeping in the same room as somebody else sometimes. I'm definitely under one roof for the house. We're eating breakfast together, lunch together, dinner together. We're figuring out logistics. Oh, you wanna shower first or me? So you get people out.

Dude, I shared a room with two other guys.

Yeah, exactly.

So I think Ben shared a bed.

Yeah. Ben had one of our crashers, so I think he had to, you, you invited him, so you had to deal with that.

Yeah, that's right.

Uh, but I think that's the other thing is so immersive that there's nowhere to run. And at some point you're gonna just be your real self. 'Cause you can only fake the funk for so long. You can do it for 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours. By hour 5, you're just gonna be sitting there, you know, tired and cranky and you're gonna be your real self. And like, that's just the way it was. So I think that those are the 3 things I would say that like created that environment.

Well, and I was gonna say it started from the top down. I mean, I would, I would say mostly it was your brand. Partially it was the brand you and I have created together, which is actually similar to both our personalities, but basically like you are a casual person. You're a relatively low ego person, as in like you're easy to be around. And it kind of stemmed from, from, from that. So I think that actually matters a lot. And it was like the house we were in was kind of like gross, but in a cool way. Like people on my Twitter were like, dude, that's a sick set. You made it look like a grandma's house. I'm like, oh no, that's just like this woman's bedroom. It just looked like that. All right. Can we get into like some of the stuff? I've got one. Do you want to go first? I've got one. You go for intensity. All right. So, all right. So for the— if you're under 35 and you maybe don't know who MrBeast is, he's a YouTuber who's only 24. Maybe he's got 100 million subscribers, really big business that makes 9 figures a year. And he just makes tons of videos that gets viewed by a lot of the world. So I have an interesting story about him. So we were in a car and I was talking about like a popular band or politics or something. I think we were even talking about a movie like Harry Potter, and I could tell that he didn't— he wasn't registering what we were talking about. He was trying to partake in the conversation and be polite, but I could tell that he didn't— he didn't, like, know what I was saying. And I said something to him. I go, hey, have you ever heard about this thing? And I think it was like Harry Potter or something, or it was like something like mainstream. And he goes, no, I really— I just don't know anything about that. I've never seen that. And I could tell that he didn't know this about a lot of things. And I said, what's going on? How do you not know about this? And he goes, when I was young, I made a goal When I was 15, when I was young, 15, I made a goal to be the most popular YouTuber in the world, and I pretty much stopped paying attention to everything else. So if whatever you're talking about is not part of like YouTube culture, I don't know what it is. And that was incredibly interesting to me. And he said a few other things that showed his intensity. The second thing was he said, I've gotten so big and I've like studied and gotten great at my craft that I can't really learn too much from other YouTubers. So I talk to a lot of experts on human behavior and researchers. In order to improve my craft. And also, I don't really have work weeks, so I just kind of work and I get obsessed over stuff and I roll out of bed at 10 or 8 a.m. or whenever it is, and my team like tells me what I have to do and then I just work all night until I get tired and I go to bed and I work 7 days a week. And then occasionally I get burnt out and I take a couple of days or however long I need to recharge, and then I do it again. I don't pay attention to the normal work week. The third thing that he did was he didn't care about rules. So Sean and I did a podcast with him at about— it ended at like 11 p.m. and Hasan made a joke like, you want to go play ball? And Jimmy was like— MrBeast's real name is Jimmy. He goes, yeah, let's go right now. And as he said that, his two coworkers that were with him started getting on the phone, calling high schools, principals of schools, like all these people in order to get a basketball court. And we couldn't— we couldn't make it happen. But he was like really, really going after that to make that happen. And I thought that was crazy interesting. And once someone said something to him, someone said something like, well, what if they like don't let us for insurance reasons? He goes, well, just tell them we'll give them $1 million if someone gets hurt. And it was just so funny that he wasn't paying.

That usually does the trick. Yeah. I was like, how many times have you done this, bro?

He just didn't pay attention to rules. I thought that was interesting. Now I'm going to contrast that with this other person. I'm not going to say his name, but you know who I am, who I'm talking about. He was a young guy. In his 30s. He might have been the wealthiest person there, and he wholly owned a business that was worth probably $500 to $800 million, and it made tens of millions a year in profit. And he basically told me that he worked really hard to get it going, but now he works one week a month, one week, and then the other week a month he likes to travel. And then the other two weeks of the month, he's just kind of searching. So his company— he owns a bunch of companies— the other two weeks, he's just online searching for other deals and companies to buy. But at a fairly casual pace. And I thought this was interesting because these two guys were the exact opposite of when you met them. One guy, you'd be like, oh, you're easy to be around, you're well-balanced. The other guy, Jimmy, not well-balanced at all. But both of them had this laser-focused intensity of when they're on, they're on. And they played their game at a really, really high, highly levered. So lots of leverage and that type of scale where it was just like any time if I make a decision, the outcome is potentially big. and I don't always have to make a lot of decisions.

Uh, I agree with everything you just said. And in fact, I think we could probably do a 2-episode series literally just on MrBeast because, um, and, and I don't mean that cuz I'm a fan. Like, in fact, I, I, I watched some of his videos. I watched him after. I like, yeah, I've, I've watched a couple of his videos. It's not like I went in being like, ooh, this guy's my favorite. You know, like it's not that, right? Like he, I've watched a couple of his videos. It's like, oh, okay, I get it. That's cool. I get why that works. But like, you know, whatever. It's kind of a dumb, uh, you know, kind of a dumb video thing, but it's like, you know, it appeals to people. It's good, good. It's good, good fun. And, um, so it's not that, but I am now a much bigger fan of him after seeing how he operates. I'm gonna tell you a couple stories. So you didn't go for this, but a couple of us who arrived the day before, uh, Ben was there. We got to go visit his studios and we got to go tour his production facility, which is like, I don't know, Ben, how big is that place, like 50,000 square feet or something like that?

Like basically an airplane hangar, right?

Imagine a giant airplane hangar, and on one end they're like, oh, we're building this set over here. It's like a Hollywood production thing. So there's 4 production teams like individually that are each creating different videos at the same time because they're all going to get released, you know, next month or whatever.

And you're like in rural North Carolina.

People make this pilgrimage out to go see Warren Buffett, and they call him the Oracle of Omaha. And I was like, man, we're, we're, we're driving, we're making this pilgrimage. We're driving 2 hours after we, we flew 6 hours to get there.

Yeah.

But I was like, where are we and where are we going for this pilgrimage? And I was like, and so we get out there, but it's like, had that same thing. Very special. You go there and it's like this group of people who are all singularly focused on one mission, which was to create the best videos possible, to create the best videos that get the biggest reactions, that, you know, like, and that's all they were all doing 24/7. They were all just working on that. So I'm gonna tell you a couple of, of kind of amazing stories from that. So we go, first of all, we get into one of his videos. So in one of his videos, like they're filming the grand finale when the person, you know, either wins or loses the money. And, uh, so we're like in that video now, uh, as just like random bystanders. But the second thing was we were like, so what is your, um, like what's your model, dude? And his model is basically this. He started off making videos with no money, just him in his bedroom doing dumb stuff. Like, I'm gonna say Logan Paul's name 100,000 times. I'm gonna take this plastic knife and I'm gonna cut through, I'm gonna saw through this plastic table in the next 48 hours. And he just sat there taking a jagged, you know, picnic, like, you know, plastic knife and trying to cut through the table. He would just do stuff like that. No budget, no whatever. But he knew, he understood even at that time, like, Okay, what would get somebody's attention? What would make them laugh? What would make them watch? What's a bit of a spectacle? Low-budget spectacles. Now he's doing high-budget spectacles. Like, we get there, there's a camera flying above us, there's fireworks and smoke bombs, and there's crazy stuff going on, right? Because now he's investing, I think on average, Ben, what is it, like half a million or a million dollars?

No, I think, I think he said $1.5.

$1.5. Yeah. $1.5 million per video just on the production. That's kind of insane. And so, um, the thing I admired the most about him was, okay, in that house there was, let's say, 25, all, everybody there was entrepreneurial. So if I said, who here is entrepreneurial? How many out, out of, out of, let's just pretend out of 100%, how many people would raise their hand?

Almost all.

Okay.

100.

We were at 100 outta 100. I said, who here has a clear vision of what they want? Now how many people do you think are raising their hand?

60.

Okay. Maybe 70. Who here can think about that vision and can honestly say that it is wildly ambitious? Like MrBeast's ambition is to be, you know, a billionaire YouTube creator to get to a billion followers and make billions of dollars. He has told me that he wants to be one of the richest men on the planet, the most famous person on the planet and president. So, okay, that's his ambition.

Yeah.

What's yours? Right? So, How many could just say in their own right that I'm thinking really big, I'm thinking wildly ambitious? So we're at 60%. Where are we at now?

Maybe 20.

We're down to 20%. And now if I ask the last question, the most important question of them all, I said, who here is truly and totally obsessed? Meaning you are willing to give every hour of your day, every dollar you create, you're willing to reinvest back into your thing. You don't take anything off the table. You don't hedge. You don't buy that nice house, you don't buy those fancy cars, you don't put it away for, for your kids. You, you wake up, you do your thing till you pass out, and you are giving every hour, every dollar, and every ounce of your soul to that ambition. How many people are left? How many, what percent are left raising their hand? How many people in the room?

He might be the only one. And I would say, well, it's also because he was the youngest, but that could just, you know, it could play out where even if he's not the youngest, he still would've behave that way.

He would be the only one. And that's not just about that house. I could go down into San Francisco. I could say, hey, gather around every venture-backed founder here. I could go into, uh, every— I can go to a gymnasium full of people who all say they want to be a big YouTuber, all say they want to be a comedian.

Which, by the way, this isn't necessarily a good thing. It could be a good thing. It could also, I think, be his downfall.

I think it's an incredible thing. I don't necessarily mean it's a healthy thing, but I think it it was honestly just kind of stunning.

I— Oh, oh yeah. I like, it, it was absolutely stunning. I agree with you. But I, but I'm saying it, it, it could go either way. It could be, uh, you know, a sh— the strength could become the weakness.

There's a reason most people don't do it, I think is what you're saying, which is like, there's a price that comes with that. And that price is a price that most of us will not pay. What do you think, Ben?

Uh, I just think there's a couple things he said throughout the weekend that I was like, oh, this guy's so successful. But he, to Sam's point, like, he's on a knife's edge. If you play out his life 100 times, I think in like 25 or 30 of them, he literally ends up on the street as just like an addict because he does have that obsessive personality. And if he had ended up for whatever reason obsessed with not the right thing, that's the way it would have gone.

I also think that if he, if he, if we had a list of like, I have a list of like 3 things that might be his downfall. Keep in mind, the guy is like 24, so he's going to evolve quickly. But one, he was incredibly naive about business. Which is actually a pro, I think, in a lot of cases. But in his case, I think that like you have to get a little bit less naive and learn a little bit more about business. You know, the thing you said about him cutting through a table with a plastic knife, that's kind of how he's done his life. He's just like, you know what I mean? Like he's just like brute forces way. And I think that's great. That can get you a long way. But in order to last and be as big as he wants to be, like a Bezos, you got to have a little bit more sophistication as you grow. He's got plenty of time, though. The second thing is hiring. I think that he kind of told stories that it made me seem— it made it seem like he just hired his friends and it's like, hey, you're fun, you want to do this? That I don't think that's going to cut it either. And then the third thing is company building. We asked him on the pod about like work hours and about like meetings. And it— he— I actually don't remember if he did it. I don't think he did a great job of answering it, but the vibe that I got was it was like a little bit like just whatever Jimmy wants, Jimmy gets. And I think that's okay for a little while, but in order to be as big as he wants to be, you gotta have a little bit more company building, a little more process-oriented things like that that are kind of the antithesis of like being a cool YouTuber in, in many regards.

So I'll disagree with you on a couple of those. I think that, um, first of all, I think he's 24. So I remember when I was 24, 24, I became a CEO for the first time of like a real company, a company that had revenue and, uh, employees that were are not like my two best friends from college. And where he's at at 24 and where I was at at 24 is like if me and Usain Bolt go and run a race. It's like there is such a— like, on one hand, he's sitting in a room. I think the oldest person in our group was maybe 43, and I would say the average age was maybe like 34, 35, something like that.

Probably something like that.

Yeah.

By the way, I'm not insulting him. I'm incredibly impressed.

Right. So I just think where he's at on the learning curve, like, yeah, there is no shortcut to the learning curve. You got to learn all these lessons. But where he's at is actually pretty far along and the brute force approach actually works. Uh, like you said, there is a strength to that. And I, and I think that if you're just what he's, if you're doing what he's doing, which is you're just like, eff it, I'm doing it. I'm holding nothing back. I'm gonna go all in and I'm gonna repeatedly go all in until this, like, just, I just find a way to make this work. Um, I think that overcomes a lot of the, like, mistakes you're gonna make, right?

Because maybe for the first, maybe for the first billion or two.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I think that that is a great attitude. And what he proved is that you could have that attitude for a, like, late stage in your career, even though he's 24, like he's got late stage in terms of results, even though he's probably in 10%, 100%. In most cases, he's late, he's late stage. But in order to get as big as he wants, he said he wanted to build multiple $10 billion, even I think he said $100 billion company. You know, that's— we're talking Walmart. You know, like you can't always bet the farm at that size. Size.

And I'm gonna be honest with you, I had an initial reaction to him that was sort of like, there was a part of me that was like, ah, fuck this guy, right? And not because he did anything bad, he's totally nice, but there was something that was like, his ambition is almost uncomfortable to where you're like, where you're like, I'm not talking to somebody who's re— who they don't live in the same reality that I live in. Um, and so my initial reaction was like, okay, you're saying things that don't— either they don't make sense or it's like too, like, one-sided, or it's like just like pure, unadulterated, like, raw ambition. And there's something uncomfortable about that, because I kind of like people that are like, like, one of the things I admire is people who are well balanced. So I told him this when I was talking to him. I was like, he was basically like, I admire Elon, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos. Like, these are the people that I admire. I'm like them. I'm wired like them. And I like to hang out with people like them. And I go, yeah, I'm not like them. And we're on the phone and now there's like, you know, like a 10-second uncomfortable silence because it was true. I was like, what am I gonna do, pretend I am? No, I, I could just, you know, I'm gonna say what's real. And I was like, you know, I was like, that doesn't mean I'm not ambitious. I might— I just point my ambition at a different outcome. So those guys all created like world-changing— like they were— they became the wealthiest men on Earth. They, um, created like, you know, world-changing like spectacles, like landing rockets on, you know, self-landing rockets, self-driving cars, electric cars, all this crazy stuff, right? Uh, created the iPhone. So those people, they were wildly ambitious in that way. There are other people that are wildly ambitious in other ways. I said, you know, like somebody I look up to, I model myself after is like Naval. I think he's really successful in business, but also he's revered because of his wisdom, not because he created the iPhone, right? Like, you know, he hasn't gone through 5 marriages and breakups and like, you know, he hasn't like been bankrupt and then back to the top and then is depressed, but he's super successful. I was like, to me, that's not winning. But I get it that for other people there is winning. I'm glad there's people who think that's winning because they're the ones who are going to create the next iPhone and create the next Tesla. And but I just was explaining that to him. And I think that that was the only— I don't actually think he's naive about business. I don't actually think about anything. I just think like when you, when you have your playstyle, it's very sexy to be like, my playstyle is the playstyle. My playstyle is the one— is the cool one. And all the other ones are weak for these other reasons. And I think as people get older, they really start to respect other people's playstyles. I think this has happened for most of the people I really get along with where they're like, it's like, yeah, they can admire a billionaire as much as they can admire a single mother because they're like, dude, these are just different games. But I really, I can admire and not in like a token just saying the right thing kind of way. Like they truly feel it in their heart. Like, um, like, you know, they truly feel that Wow, what you're doing is your Super Bowl, and I respect the way you approach your Super Bowl, and your Super Bowl is just as valid as my Super Bowl.

Even that's a great way to put it. The way that I also put it is I say, I don't care about money. I care about people who, like, actualize their dreams. And their dream could be to be the best parent. Their dream could be to be a billionaire. It could be to be an athlete, to be strong, to be skinny. I don't care what exactly your dream is. I just want to see you achieve it. And that makes me happy when I see someone someone going places. And it just so happens that money and traditional success is a very practical way to measure that or to like achieve it. Like it just says like, well, I just do this business thing as opposed to being the best parent. It's a little bit more challenging. But yeah, I completely agree with you.

We have another friend, or I have a friend. You've met him. I don't know if you, I don't know if you love the guy or hate the guy because he also is uncomfortably ambitious. He, remember he came to a dinner with us. I don't want to say his name, But he came to a dinner with us once, and you could describe your impression of him, but he's also—

I was embarrassed to be around him.

I met him when he was 19, 20, something like that. And he at that time was basically like, yeah, I'm like, I'm going to be a billionaire, multibillionaire. Just a matter of like, you know, is it at 25 or 26, 27? I don't know when. And I was like, so do you date? He's like, no, I'm just going to wait till I'm a billionaire, then I'm going to date like, you know, the hottest woman on earth who's also, like, you know, uh, loves me and is, like, the heir to the throne somewhere, right? Like, he's like, I'm just going for a 12. And he's like, um, you know, so first I'm gonna become a multi-billionaire, then I'm gonna date this 12 and marry her, and then I'm gonna have, like, all these children, and then my children are gonna do this. And, like, and I was just like, wow, that's, like, you know, and, and, like, if somebody else was, like, really excited about their thing that's, like, kind of small he'd be like, well, that's kind of a waste of time, right? Like, you could just— why not just do something bigger that would make you more money? And like, he's just so matter of fact, so black and white about it.

How's he doing?

Not in a way that's— not in a way that's rude. Like, he's not trying to be rude, but he just genuinely only obsesses over his thing, which is in his case, like investing and being like a better investor than Warren Buffett. He's like, you know, I've, I've, I've watched every video, read every book by Warren Buffett, Ray Dalio, all the greatest investors. I've studied them. I'm just as good as them. Yeah. I'm, I'm younger than them, but I'm just as good at them. In fact, I think I'll be better than them. Uh, you know, by the time I'm their age, they're 90.

I'll be better than them.

How's it going? I mean, who knows? I don't know. I can only, I literally can only check in with them so often because if you talk to 'em too much, it's just like, oh dude, like I get my, I get a headache. Like A, I feel insecure cuz I'm not as ambitious. And then B, I just get frustrated cuz I'm like, dude, come back to reality. Like you're floating away in your own bubble somewhere. But I like people like that. Those people also are like, they serve a real place in my life.

Can I, can we, can we, can I bring up a different topic other than MrBeast really quick? That was subtle, but crazy fascinating. So Ben Levy invited this guy whose Twitter handle is Commodore. And Commodore is famous, I guess, because he started a DAO and he's trying to buy an NBA team and he's raised tens of millions of dollars to do it. And I started talking to this guy, and we started talking about, uh, you know, just all types of stuff. And I go, what's your name, by the way? And he goes, Commodore. I go, oh, that's a sick name. Like, why'd your parents name you Commodore? Well, I forget what it was, but he goes, oh, that's not my real name. Um, I'm, I'm anonymous this weekend. I go, what? He goes, yeah. So like, in order to get rid of— in order not to have like some legal implications, as— and I don't actually know what all the implications were, He goes, I'm just anonymous. And I go, does anyone here know who you are? He goes, no, no one here knows my real name. Ben Levy, the guy who invited me, he has no idea who I am or my name. And I was like, what? That's interesting. So I just called him Commodore and we talked about like family. We talked about his wife and children, where he lived and how like, you know, I am maybe familiar with that area. We talked about all these things and we got like 30 minutes to do a really deep conversation. I was like, what would you do? What were you doing before this? He was like, oh, I was doing this, this and this. I was like, I was like, uh, oh wow, that's amazing. What was it called? He goes, oh, I can't tell you, I'll dox myself. And I was like, oh, and I got back and I like remembered we are anonymous. And I thought that was so fascinating. What did you think about that?

I don't know. I didn't find it that fascinating, but now that you say it, I'm like, yeah, that was kind of crazy. Like it didn't feel crazy.

It didn't feel crazy.

You people who have theirs, you see people who have their like handle online and that's their persona, but you're right. I've never actually just met one of those people in real life and have them just be like, Yeah, that's just, that's my identity. I've just given a— like, I don't use my, my birth identity, my legal identity. I use my online identity as my main identity. And I'm just—

if his friends do—

what's up, Commodore?

I called him Commodore the whole time.

I thought that was his real name for the first 24 hours. Every time he walked in the room, people like, ah, Commodore, hey, where's Commodore? Is he ready to go? And it's like, that's not— like, who is this guy? Nobody here knows who this guy is, and we're all okay with it. That was kind of— yeah, you're right, that was kind of amazing.

And I was like, can I just take a picture of you and like reverse search this? He goes, you can, but you won't. And I was like, you're right, I'm not going to.

But yeah, there was sort of a respect at some point. It's like, I'm not going to try to know this because you're cool and I don't need to. Why would I do something you don't— you're not comfortable with? You don't want that? All right, I'm your friend. I'm not going to do that to you, dude.

That was— it was so weird at first and then it became completely normal. And now I totally get this Anon thing. And I asked him, I go, did you— do your friends know who you are? And he's, no. He's like, they— a lot of them have just don't know what I do for work.

So there was a group of people there that are pretty interesting. So one guy who we both loved, who we did a pod with. So I guess I'll explain the rest of the setup. So, um, we did a couple other cool things. I thought we had a chef who was there at the house just making all the meals. That was awesome. Nobody had to think about anything. We had, um, just cutting up fruit the whole time.

We just had like trays of fruit and like snacks the whole time. I thought it was great.

Yeah. Yeah. It was incredible. And then we had, um, Kevin Durant basically sent us like 30 pairs of his shoe.

Dude, that was so baller.

Everybody who got there, they got a pair of his shoes. We got a custom like shirt jersey that said Camp MFM with your name on the back and your number. So people kind of had their like jersey for the weekend. Um, we got like, they also sent like Nike sent bags for us. Uh, so there was a couple of things that were like cool. You know why I was talking about the moments in between the moments. We tried to have some moments in between the moments.

It felt like Christmas morning, like with all these shoes here and we all like got there and like unwrapped them. It was really cool.

Yeah. We all turned into little kids. We're like unboxing our thing and be like, ah, yeah, I got it. Like, you know, all these people could afford 1,000 shoes 1,000 times over, but like, it just, it's still great to just get a free cool thing that somebody sends you.

Can I say one cool thing you did, Sean?

What?

Is that it wasn't all KDs. It was like KDs and a couple Kyries and some LeBrons. So it was fun to open up to be like, oh, which shoes did I get?

Yeah, that was true.

Did you ever find your shoes, by the way, Ben? I did.

Uh, they were the wrong shoes. Someone had just grabbed the wrong bag.

Dude, Ben came up to me, he goes, I think someone stole my shoes. I was like, Ben, I don't think anyone stole your shoes. And I went and made an announcement. I go, Ben cannot find his shoes. If you found them, please give it back. And he goes, dude, someone totally jacked up. I was like, Ben, no one stole your tennis shoes. We all just got like dozens of free ones. Our software is the worst.

Have you heard of HubSpot?

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.

I think I love our new CRM.

Our software is the best.

HubSpot, grow better. Some other great moments. So we, um, we had gotten connected with the guys at Duke because we're in North Carolina, and we had said, hey, can we come like get a tour of the place? And they, they did. So basically some of the former players who are now coaches, uh, some of the current players basically came together and they they took us on a tour of the practice facility. What did you think of that, by the way? You're not like a— like, it was—

it was—

it was—

it was obviously cool, dude. It was so cool. It was so awesome. So I don't know anything about basketball. I even made a joke when we walked in. I go, Ben, who's that dude? And it was Coach K. Uh, I was like, yeah. So like, I, I don't really know anything about basketball, but it was inspirational because the coaches, uh, it's like the assistant coaches now, I think they are. They told stories about working with Coach K, who's like known for you know, 30 years of excellence and tradition and like, perfection. And he told— they told some amazing stories. And it felt— I did feel like I was in a, I don't know, holy place when I was there.

So I want to say something about that too. So one of the players there, Emile Jefferson, who he was on the championship team, maybe 17 years ago, was he like the coach, like the guy leading the tour? Yeah, he was the guy kind of telling the most stories. And I just want to give him a shout out because Basically, they didn't know what the hell was going on. Neither did our group. All of a sudden, 30 people are standing face to face in this practice facility. It's like, so, uh, okay, who are you guys? And, uh, like, what am I supposed to show you? What are we doing here?

And like, I don't know, dude, he totally waved it. He did good. It also helped that we had MrBeast here and, uh, Hasan. So everyone thought that like, oh, everyone else here must be famous too. I just don't recognize them.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, um, they didn't know we're all just prolific newsletter creators.

Yeah, podcasters and newsletter creators and a couple actually famous people. Yeah, they They ball, we blog.

Yeah, exactly. So he tells this story and I just gotta give him credit. Like, uh, he was, it's really hard to like, that was like a make or break moment. Do you have a story or do you not? And I just wanna encourage everybody to like have a story in your back pocket. Like whatever the most common question you get, which is like in this case, like what's Coach K like? You know, what was it like playing here? What's it like? You know, whatever. and don't just be like, it was good, man. Really cool. Really special to be here. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's just been awesome. I've learned so much. It's like, that's what I would say 9 outta 10 people would've done. He's like, you know, when I first got here, I thought it was hot shit, blah, blah, blah. And then Coach K was just yelling at me, yelling at me, man. And I was just, I didn't know what to do. He's like, later on I realized that it, once he stops yelling at you, that's when it's bad because then he's given up on you. But like, you know, for that moment he's like, in some practices, and then you say, he said a counterintuitive thing. He's like, some practices he just sat there, man. He didn't say anything. The whole practice, he wouldn't say a word. And you just think, oh man, he's just checked out. Like he's not doing anything. Like, I don't know. It's weird. I guess he doesn't care right now. But then 3 weeks later, he would reference something that he was observing that day. And you're like, dude, you've been watching everything. You got like cameras in the walls and microphones. Like, how do you know all this stuff? And he tells the story. He's like, you know, we have this one little film room and the secret, like, he's like, see that wall right there? There's like a secret door. You go in there. There's a, there's a film room right next to the practice gym. He's like, and he took me in there. He's like, come here. And I go in there and I hadn't been playing that well. And he takes me in and there's like all these screens in there. He's like, and on all of the screens is just a picture of me, like various pictures of me all doing the same pose where I'm just sitting there like this. I'm like, I'm exasperated. I'm like mad at the ref or my teammates or the coach.

And your hands are out.

My hands are out. My hands are up. My palms are up. I'm like, it's like the why, like type of like expression. And already everybody's on the edge of their seat in the story.

Yeah.

'Cause we're like, hey, this is cool. This is interesting. I wanna know what was this about? He's like, he said, look, look at this, son. You're one of the leaders of this team. You look like a beggar. You're standing there with your palms out begging for a call from the referee, begging for the coaches to help you, begging for your teammates to do something. He's like, you're a leader. I don't ever wanna see you look like a beggar again. He's like, don't, don't do that. This is not the body language of a leader. My face, look at your face, look at your hands. And then I was like, such a good story. Such a good story. He's like, for the rest of, he's like, dude, rest of the season, you'll watch me. If something happens, I'm like this. He's like, you know, does a totally different pose. He's like, you'll never catch me doing that pose again. And I thought, a great way to connect with the group, right? Like, we're all like kind of CEO leader types. So you tell a leadership story, you tell a counterintuitive one, an entertaining one, and it's a happy ending, right? And I just thought, man, he just killed it with that moment. And I just felt myself, if I look at how I was hosting that weekend, I felt like if I was going to level up how these things go, that's one thing I want to work on is in those moments where you need to either make the toast, welcome everybody in, tell the story, get people primed for what we're about to do. Like the difference in the whole experience can just be in that like 2-minute story right before you start. And that's what I want to get great at.

Dude, let me tell you, uh, what I, another thing that was great about this event And it involve— it's all about you. And again, when I say you and Sean, I'm actually meaning probably 40% Sean, 60% Ben Levy. Um, so basically you, I told you this like 3 times, you pulled this off perfectly and you nailed the important stuff and you failed and ignored the non-important stuff. The non-important stuff is the nice to haves that, but here's the thing, most people would spend time on that. So, You had no website, you had no, like, invitation. You just DM'd people and you said, Venmo me money. And I didn't know what I was getting into, but I just trusted you. You last minute sent us the address. So basically, like, on the way to the airport, you told me the address of where I had to go to. I didn't know what time dinner was. I just know I just sometime throughout the day, hopefully I show up at this address and I, and I, and like, hopefully there's a place to sleep. All I did was I sent you money and I told you my shoe size. That's all I did. And I showed up and there was all these amazing people there and you nailed it and you did it quickly. And the Airbnb was perfect. We had a chef there that was perfect. The house, pretty messy, kind of just not, not messy horribly, but almost borderline. Like, this is disgusting. We go and play basketball all day and you had this amazing trainer at this awesome high school gym that was also perfect. But I'm like, all right, is there any like drinks here? Like, what do we, what do we do? It's like, well, there's just a water fountain and some Clif Bars. And I was like, Okay, that's less than ideal. But you know what? That, that doesn't matter because I appreciate that. You just like, you just ordered this shit on Amazon. You go, but that's not the important shit. We're going to focus on the important stuff. You had— we had a podcast studio there that was already set up, an important thing that we needed. And it was like kind of like a little hoodie, a little hoodrat setup. And it was fucking perfect. It was exactly what we needed. What, like the people that you selected were awesome. We didn't do any, like, real introductions. We just hung out and you just— you did. I think if you're executing on a project, what you did this weekend was a perfect example of just getting the main things right. Now, in the future, maybe you'll know or maybe you'll want to like, all right, you know, we should actually have like— people didn't like eat this type of food. We should not do that this time. And like, that's the unimportant stuff though. And it was perfect. I don't even remember what we ate. I think it was just like hot dogs and chicken and salmon, like nothing fancy. But that wasn't the important part. The important part that we all just sat around in the kitchen and just told stories.

Yeah, the, um, uh, I, the, I, I really want to do more of these in the future because A, it was just like a dope life experience, and B, it kind of merged a bunch of things into one. It's like, uh, if I ever need a vacation but I also want to like hang out with cool people, do networking, or go to a conference, but also I want to like do other stuff besides business with my life. And so with this, it was like, got a vacation, got to hang out with a bunch of people, some I knew and some I didn't know. Half I knew, half I didn't know. And the third was do something fun. Like, oh wow, I got to train with an NBA trainer and like play pickup basketball. Like that was just like, that was a blast. We got to play inside Cameron Indoor Stadium at Duke. Uh, like there was just like a whole bunch of dope things that were, that were happening with that.

And you have to tell the story. So basically we're at Cameron Indoor, we're at this like, you know, holy ground. And I don't know how it happened, but basically, uh, MrBeast, he actually did this twice. Uh, he goes, I'll give you $100,000 if you can make this half-court shot right now. And this was the day prior, and I think you missed it. But then the second time at Duke, he goes, first one that makes it.

No, I said it to him. I said it to him. So I go, I go, Jimmy, how about a, I go, Jimmy, how about this? Um, cause I know he's, once I, once I got to know him a little bit, I was like, oh, he's like me. He's like a bit of a degenerate gambler. Like he loves to gamble. He loves action. And, um, and he's, he's also always trying to ratchet up. The like intensity and awesomeness of the situation. So it's like if the situation is here, but the level can be raised, I think most people talk themselves out of that. He's immediately like, oh, level can be raised, raise the levels, raise the levels, everybody. Like, oh, like, you know, it'd be like, oh, you guys want to play a board game? And then he'd be like, let's go like right now do a tournament with the best board game. Let's do this, do this thing. Oh, you want to play basketball? I don't care if it's 1:00 AM. Let's find a gym. We're gonna go play.

Dude, I was talking to him about how I loved Coke Zero and he goes, let's go right now and go buy a bunch. And we, I was like, all right, cool. So we just went to the store and bought Coke Zero. He's like, I've never had it before. I wanna, I wanna see what this is about.

I, I know I have no input. Like, it was like, oh, there's some cool people here. You'll get to know 'em. You'll enjoy this. He goes, who's cool? I was like, uh, like all these people. He's like, okay, hey, come sit over here. I wanna talk to you. And he would like put somebody in the hot seat and he'd be like, who, who are you? What are you? What's your story? And he would listen to them for 5 minutes. He'd be like, wow. All right, awesome. Hey, who else is you? Come here, come here. No, no, no.

I'm serious.

Come sit in the seat. And it was like, I was like, wow, this guy will always try to like ratchet up the intensity again in a great way. So we're at, we're at Duke and we're just getting a tour. Uh, they had just finished like a volleyball game. The hoops weren't even down. They were like raised up to the rafters. And I go, Jimmy, uh, I bet you $1,000 I can hit a half-court shot before you. He goes, nah, $10,000. And I was like, I was like, deal. And I was like, hey, uh, to, to the Duke guys, I was like, any chance you can like, Set up the court real quick.

Yeah.

I just bet MrBeast 10 grand I can make this shot before he does. And they're like, nah, we're not supposed to, but I kind of wanna see this. 10 grand. All right. And again, the world, he, again, the reality was we weren't even supposed to have gotten in there in the first place. All the hoops were gone. There was another game gonna, like, somebody else was coming on the court soon. And reality has no bearings on what, what he wants. Like the world will shift to what he wants basically. And so. Sure enough, all of a sudden the hoop's getting come down, ball appears out of nowhere, and we're doing this thing. There's like a circle around us, and now I'm like, oh shit, I gotta hit this shot.

And, uh, took you like 4 times.

Yeah, basically 2 or 3, uh, 2 or 3 attempts. No, uh, you know, come up close but not quite. And also you could feel in the moment that like, okay, well, if this takes a while, something that was really dope is about to turn really lame to watch somebody. If you ever watch the slam dunk contest, 9 times in a row. Yeah, like there's a performance here. So I was like, I better make this shit. And sure enough, shoot it, hit it, we get it on video, I win $10 grand. And did he give you the money? No, he hasn't paid me yet. I gave him my— he's like, you want it in Bitcoin? Or he's like, or maybe I'll send $10,000 in pennies to your house, you know, just like in a giant pallet.

He goes, he goes, by the way, that will cost me $2,000 to ship because he's done that before.

Yeah, he knows the logistics of this.

What did you think of—

I have a penny guy.

Well, yeah, he does. What do you, what did you think of Sean's execution? Did I nail it?

Yeah. Yeah. You, I think you were 100% right. Uh, nailed execution. Um, yeah, like I said, um, just everything about it was perfect. Sean, do you think it's something like, could you just copy and paste it or does it need to be different every time in order to create that feeling of it being special?

Um, I think you could copy paste 80% of it and you would change 20. Um, and so I think that that would be the plan. I, I wanna basically, so I just bought, uh, a domain. I'm putting up a website today, mfmcamp.com, and I'm gonna put the pictures from this one. I just kind of wanna make a blog of where this was, but I'm also gonna put a form on there for people who wanna come to this in the future. 'Cause half the people who came to this, I didn't know they had reached out.

Dude, I don't, I don't think the idea, I think you should let people apply, but I don't think I, you gotta keep it just like 20, 25 people in, Like, I'm gonna, you know, unfortunately, I'm gonna do two versions.

I'm gonna do the exclusive one, which is like, basically it's, it's hitters only, right? No small boy stuff there. Um, that's what this one was like, right? 20, 20, 25 people in the room. Everybody had their claim to fame, whatever it may be, right? Like we had one guy, Al, who's built the biggest quilt company in the world. They do over $100 million a year selling quilt, you know, patches and accessories and stuff like that. And it's like, that's his com— that's his, and he, he bought a town and he is making it like the quilting set, like the quilting hub of America. Yeah. Like a tourist destination for quilters everywhere. Like the guy's crazy, but he is totally different than the next guy who's done it in a different area. Right. So, um, so I'm gonna do one or two of these a year that are the small 20-person type of events. I might even go smaller. I might even go 15. I think this was too many people. And, um, then I also wanna do one. That's like one notch less.

The D-League.

Yeah, that is— it's not the D, it's more like the B, the B-League, right? It's like— but these are people who are— they get our culture, they listen to the show.

Isn't it like development league? Isn't like the NBA like—

yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. They changed the G-League now because D sounded bad. But, but basically that I want to do like a 1,000-person or 500-person or something bigger. Maybe not 5, maybe not that big, maybe it's 200. But that'll be like a retreat somewhere. It's less intimate, less exclusive, but it's still people who are— they're all entrepreneurs.

They're all—

they've all made their first million, right? According to the podcast, they all listen to the pod. They get the jokes, they get the humor, they get the style. So when they show up, they know the vibe. The vibe, the vibe should be immaculate from day one. And that's what I— that's what I want to do. So that's what I'm thinking of doing out of this. What do you think of that idea?

Yeah, I think it's awesome. I told Kip, the CMO of HubSpot, I go, Kip, Sean just did this on his own, but like, you got to carve out some budget and just let us— let us or let him have this money. And we got to make this happen. This is magical. And he's like, dude, I followed all your guys' pictures on Instagram from this. This is amazing. We're in. And yeah, dude, I thought it was awesome. I think it's a really good idea. You should do a bigger one. That bigger one— the bigger one will be frickin exhausting, but it'd be fun.

Yeah, totally. I hate events, but the fact that I still want to do this even though I hate events shows me that it's like a good thing to do. Um, okay, so those were a couple of the things. Uh, can I share a couple of the other kind of like takeaways or anecdotes? So, um, one takeaway, a lot of people there like were pretty, I'll call it like straight and narrow now. Like it's like a lot of the conversations were like about their kids. They— it wasn't like it wasn't a ton of alcohol needed for the like—

dude, I don't think the social like, like, you know, socializing. Nick had like a whiskey and like maybe other people had like a beer, but there was virtually no alcohol, no drugs. At worst it was like some tobacco and that was it. And we played board games.

That was you? That was just—

that was me. No, that was Huber. He smoked a cigar. Austin Reeves smokes smoked a cigar.

Yeah, yeah, true. I'm gonna read this. So Nick, uh, who's Sweaty Startup on Twitter, he goes, he wrote a blog post. Did you read this thing? He goes, yeah, I spent the weekend with multimillionaires. Here's what I learned. And he goes, we organized this thing, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, he texted, uh, his wife after he put a screenshot up. He goes, I'm very inspired by a lot of the guys here. Had some incredible deep conversations with some spectacular people. A few things I'm ready to change right away. Number 1, I want a therapist. Number 2, I want to bring energy to the kids. I think I need to disconnect from the phone to do that. Number 3, I want to drink less alcohol. Number 4, I'm ready to bring a positive mindset to being a family man and a dad and nurture that garden in the same way that I've nurtured business and social. Number 5, I want to start honoring you, like treating you like the queen that you are. I'm so lucky to have you, right? It's like, whoa, those are some come to Jesus sort of thoughts. And I'm glad that he had that impression. And so he said something, he goes, here's my takeaways. He goes, we're all dorks. He goes, I was expecting a room full of giants, people with charisma, blah, blah. He's like, don't get me wrong, some people could tell great stories, but for the most part, everyone was just normal and had like overcome odds. They were just smart storytellers who were really obsessed with their thing.

Now number 2, yeah, we played like board games and we like went swimming. Like it was like children stuff that were our interests.

He goes, we all suffer with insecurity, fear of failure, and a general emptiness at times. He goes, I talked to a few guys who enjoyed their success more than 5 years ago. Have been worth $20+ million for a long time, and they spoke about business as an unhealthy addiction, how it leaves them searching for more, an empty feeling after an exit. Others, others talked about their nagging ego and need for more and bigger. Others discussed a constant fear that their career, uh, about their career, that they weren't worthy or didn't have, have what it took and just general insecurity. Um, another one, they had lots of kids. A lot of guys spend a lot of time talking about their kids and, and, and how they spend a lot of energy in this area. Uh, most of the folks spent a lot of time talking about how they're trying to raise good kids. Um, and how they're trying to help their kids embrace the struggle rather than protecting them from it. Uh, he goes, very few of them had, had new groundbreaking businesses. Most started normal businesses that already existed, not revolutionary technologies. They saw a need and just went after it better than anyone else. Good old-fashioned boring stuff. Um, he talked about the humility is astounding. Most of the people, mo— money has not turned these people into jerks. They're still mentally tough, uh, still willing to, to, you know, to slum it. They are humble. They're, Searching for ways to improve, blah, blah, blah. Most didn't drink alcohol. A couple of us had one or two drinks, but I'm surprised that this many people were able to socialize, hang out without using alcohol. It inspired me to do more. Yeah, basically he's like, the big question for most people in the room is, what am I going to do with my life? And he goes, one last quote. He goes, I talked to somebody who said this. I walk around my house in my office sometimes just acting like I'm doing things. Then I just go outside, walk around, or I cut wood. He's like, you know, uh, he's like, he's like, everybody is kind of, you know, on some kind of search. So I thought that was a really good recap.

To add to that, most people were really transparent. And so like, we would be like, if we would ask them money questions, like, and they would just say, this is what I have. This is where I put it. This is what I do. And they would be fairly specific or they would say, no, like, I don't have enough to do this, this, and this. Like, we're talking about flying private. Like, no, I'm not wealthy enough. I can't do that. I can't afford it. And I was like, oh, okay, that's cool. Or I am wealthy enough to do that. And here's how much I spend. But I didn't do it until I hit this number. Or, you know, like, my wife and I argue about X, Y, and Z. Or I'm nervous about my children for these reasons. Or like, people were really transparent.

Can I tell you a few more MrBeast nuggets real quick? Uh, yeah, because I think he was the most, uh, like alien of— he was the alien amongst aliens basically. Um, so he's got a runner. Did you, did you know this? Did you see this? You know what I mean?

No.

So there is somebody 24 hours a day, he's 2 people, they do 12-hour shifts.

Well, it was those 2 kids that were, that were there.

Uh, no, no, those were— that one guy was like his social media guy, his TikTok guy. Another guy was somebody else. So, um, uh, by the way, they're not, they're not kids. They're just a little younger than us, right? Like they're like in their 20s.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not like 10.

Well, he's, he's a kid kind of. Yeah, sorry, no disrespect, guys.

So dude, you're like 31. You're like young.

Well, they just had young energy. Like they were like, they had like college kid energy in that they were like this was their vocation and they just lived in the dorm and they were at like, instead of basketball camp, they were at like MrBeast video camp. Yeah.

For us, this was like a weird getaway from the, from adult life. And they're like, yeah, this is just like, I don't know, I guess I just bounced over here and tomorrow I'll bounce somewhere else. And they like wore like, you know, Yeezys or something like that.

And we're like, that's what I mean by kids.

These are funky shoes. You know, son, what did you got there?

They had $300 sandals on. I was like, what are those? And they're like, I was like, what?

Yeah.

So that's what I mean. They were, they were younger in psychodemographic.

Yeah. I was an idiot. I was like, oh, I was like, whoa, those are like super Crocs. What are those? They're like, these are your Yeezy slides. They're the hottest shoe.

Biggest seller on earth.

I was like, oh, sweet.

Super Crocs. Sport mode Crocs.

Yeah. So, um, anyway, so, so he's got a runner. Basically, he's got a dude outside the house at all times, just sitting in his car. 24 hours a day. It's a personal DoorDash. So if he ever needed something, I don't know if you noticed, he was like, oh, I want to play Settlers of Catan. So he's like, hey, can you go get Catan? And the guy would just run to the store, go get Catan, bring it back within 15 minutes. What?

He was outside our house the whole time?

And he's outside the studio. Wherever he goes, these two people are there. 12-hour shifts each. So 24 hours a day, he's got somebody just watching his back, ready to go.

Do they do like find my location on the phone?

We went to Duke and, you know, he's wearing his Yeezy slides and it was like, um, uh, we were all of a sudden they were moving the hoop so we could play. So he's like, hey, go get my shoes from the car. And like, I need my shoes. Can you go get them from the car? Like, just like he's like anything, like I'm hungry. And they would just go and they would like, or even before he's hungry, they would just go. They're like, hey, I think he has like Crohn's disease or something like that. So he's got like a very specific diet. So they were like, um, like there's just like shit ton of like yogurt in the fridge at all times. I was like, where's this all this yogurt coming from? And like his runner was just stocking the fridge like, oh my God, he's gonna need a snack.

Oh, he's gonna forget to eat.

So I'm just gonna go hand him this at this time. Like, that's a real, that's like a really funny, and he, and so he is talking to me, he's like, he's like, yeah. He's like, I don't get it. He's like, all these people here are wealthy, but like nobody here had that. He's like, why don't, why don't you guys do that? It's like, it's a waste of your time to go do those things, right? Like if you value your time, why would, why would you? And I was like, I was like, he's like, why do you think that is? And I was like, honestly, I don't think any of us had even thought about it. Like, I was like, I was like, I had never considered this possibility. I didn't know that was a thing.

Yeah.

In the tech industry, like the biggest winners, Elon, like the Google guys, Zuckerberg, like they, you would describe this for a lot of them. And so it's actually like a, a, a trait commonly found with greatness, which is a very matter-of-fact, simple way of looking at things that is unafraid of like how that looks, how that sounds, or like what it costs. So for example, he reinvests everything into every video. And I was like, okay, so, um, you know, what's the game plan here? He's like, well, just, you know, like make the best videos possible. Just put it all in, keep growing it, make this the biggest thing ever. And like, you know, that's my goal. And I was like, okay, but like, you know, what about XYZ? It's like, I told you my goal, so why would I consider XYZ? Yeah. Like, were you not listening to the first part where I said, so I call it, I started to think about this cuz again, the stunning thing for me was I had never really met anybody who puts every hour, every dollar, and every ounce of their soul into their wild ambition. That's what I took away from him. Um, it doesn't matter if he was a YouTuber or an athlete. In fact, the trainer there used to train with Kobe and Kobe's daughter Gigi before they passed away. And I was, you know, I was like, dude, I hate to be the guy who asks you for a Kobe story, but like, you gotta tell me a Kobe Bryant story. Like, what, what you got? And he started telling me, I was like, you know, is the work ethic thing legit?

'Cause like, I don't know if you follow this, but like on Reddit there's these stories where it's like, yeah, I, I sat and listened to that guy talk. He was, he was, that was, that was probably the best storytelling.

So there's these stories about Kobe that you don't know if they're marketing or if they're real, where it's like Kobe would wake up, like there's a story, like Dwyane Wade, who's another, you know, Hall of Fame basketball player. He's like, yeah, I, we went to the Olympics. That's my first time I got to see how Kobe works. 'Cause he was a competitor before that. Now we're on the same Olympic team. He's like, we got to the gym at 6:00 AM and Kobe was already there, like fully sweating. We're like, Kobe, what did you, what are you doing? We, we just got here for the 6:00 AM practice. What are you, what are you doing? And he is like, oh, this, like, yeah, yeah, I'm ready. I'll be ready in a minute. They're like, well, why are you sweating so much? He's like, oh, I had my first workout at 4. I'm just finishing up. I'm going to join you guys in a second. I'm going to go get my ankles retaped and then go back. And the guys— so he's got this legendary work ethic. So I was asking the guy, I was like, is it real? He's like, dude, I thought it was bullshit too. He's like, so I started texting him at 4. He's like, he hit me back right away. The guy was awake. He was at the gym. He's like, it was insane. He's like, and then I was like, okay, so he's got the crazy work ethic. What else? He's like, he had this ability where if you were in the room with him, he's like, most of the guys I work with, the famous athletes, they're like kind of like ADD. They're like, if they don't know, if you're not like a bullseye of what they're interested in, they don't think that, they don't look at you as someone they can learn something from always. Yeah.

Just normal people.

He's like, so, you know, they'll check their phone, they'll look around, they'll talk to you, they'll talk to their manager, they'll talk to this person. They're just, uh, whatever. They're all over the place. He's like, Kobe, if he got in a room with you, you would feel like there's only you in the room. He would lock eyes. He would not look at his phone. He would not move away. He would ask you questions. He would remember your name. And the name thing was fascinating. Did you hear that story? Yeah. Did you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The other guy, Luke, tells the story. So he goes, uh, he goes, we're at the gym and I, he's like, this is the first time I ever met Kobe. He's like, we're playing pickup and I was playing with, I jumped in. He's like a trainer. He's like, I jumped in the game and I missed like 6 or 7 shots. And Kobe just doesn't say anything to me. He's like, after the game, he goes, damn, you damn, damn, man, you come make a shot or what? And the guy goes, I'm a volume shooter, bro. Like you should know. And Kobe, like, I mean, he tried to like kind of basically make fun of Kobe. Kobe's like, oh, only volume I know is 5, like 5 rings. He's like, so they start. And so that, whatever, they have that one interaction, takes 5 seconds. They just laugh, move on with life. 3 weeks later, he comes back to the gym and the guy walks into the gym and Kobe goes, what up, Volume? And just like remembered who he was, remembered his nickname. And so then the guy was like already impressed with that. He's like, But I, he's like, I never talked to Kobe. Besides, I never told him my name, nothing. He had asked somebody what my name is so that 3 weeks later he goes, he's like, I was leaving. And Kobe goes, damn, Luke, you're not gonna say bye? He's like, yeah, wait, you know my name? And secondly, you're stopping? I just didn't wanna bother you.

Like, and the guy was like sneaking out, like just casually trying to leave. And Kobe just saw him walking around. I was like, dude, what the hell? Aren't you gonna say goodbye to me?

And so he knew his name. He knew, he is like, he, he's like, he do, he's like, he remembers everybody's name. And I asked him, I was like, oh, Kobe's like, I'm like, why do you, like, is that easy for you? He's like, no, it's not that easy. I just make an effort. And he is like, why do, why do you care? Like to, to learn all these people's names? He goes, because for most people, this is the only time they're ever gonna interact with me. And if I remember their name with something so simple, and they not only will they remember it forever, they'll tell everybody they know about this. He goes, so I'm not just remembering, I'm not just like making an impression on them. I'm making an impression on 1,000 people throughout their lifetime that they're gonna tell this Kobe Bryant story to. And I thought that was so baller. And that was the same, the same thing I was admiring about MrBeast. I admired about Kobe in that same way.

He did an even crazier story where Alex had mentioned like a few weeks prior that his mom's birthday was on a particular date. And on that particular day, Kobe texted Alex, the trainer, goes, what's your mom's cell number? And he FaceTimed the mom, goes, what's up, mom? You know, I just want to say, I hope you have a wonderful birthday today. And Alex is like, I didn't even FaceTime my mom and tell her happy birthday.

Yeah, exactly. So Those stories were amazing. Again, those are the moments in between the moments, right? You can't plan for that, but you put a bunch of people in the room and serendipity like that can happen. But, uh, the other story that was like that, so, um, uh, so, so the, the trait, uh, the thing I was calling MrBeast, I was like, he has a level of commitment that I call kamikaze commitment. He has a kamikaze level commitment to winning. Kobe had that too.

That's our new phrase, bro.

That's a good job. The Manifest Cowboys and the people who got that kamikaze commitment, the dogs. And so I was like, how do you compete with a YouTuber like MrBeast? I thought about this. I was like, uh, I was, 'cause I was like, literally I was like, could I fund somebody? Could I just give someone like $5 million to become MrBeast? And I was like, I don't think it would actually work because not just the talent, there's like, like he's not the best looking dude. He's not the funniest guy. He's not, Honestly, all the things he knows about YouTube, you could learn. I, I could tell you everything he, you know, you need to know about YouTube, the 85% that you would need to know to get pretty far ahead, right? There's the last 15% that will accrue over time. But like, dude, you did it. You need a great clickable title and thumbnail. Here's what makes it clickable. The first 10 seconds, you need to hook people and tell 'em what they're gonna get out of this video. And then you need to visually stimulate them and then you need to use these cuts and then you need to introduce a twist in order to keep their attention. And here's the metric you need to care about, right? Like you could train that. What you can't train is the guy is willing to put all the money he makes back into the next videos. So like imagine competing in a business with somebody who's willing to take no profit. Like they're gonna beat you on price. They're gonna beat you on value because they're willing to lower their price and they're willing to reinvest all of their profits into building a better product. So he's willing to reinvest all of his money and all of his time. Into this and then that compounds. So at first that was really cheap. That was, you know, the first brand that gave him a $10,000, the first brand tried to give him a $5,000 sponsorship. I don't know if you know the story. They quit trying to give him $5,000 for the video. He was like, he's like, I talked to the guy on the phone for like an hour being like, dude, make it $10,000. More people will click. He's like, $10,000, just that number, $10 grand in the title is gonna get way more clicks than $5,000. I don't know why. It just, $5,000 is not the same as $10,000 in the And so he's like, just gimme 10. They're like, dude, we just, our budget. He's like, I'm not even gonna keep the 10. I'm gonna give all 10 away. So the gate, they said yes to 10. He immediately went and gave 10 grand to a homeless guy. And then that video gets like a million views and all the stuff that pays the, pays the video off. The advertiser's happy. So then they get 20 grand, 30 grand, 50 grand, 100 grand, and eventually advertisers are willing to pay nearly a million dollars for to be a part of these videos. But he's willing to take that and pour it all back in. So how do you compete with somebody who's willing to spend all of their creative energy and time and all of their money. I think that is like just kind of awe-inspiring to see somebody execute the like sort of kamikaze commitment strategy. I know I'm not willing to do it. Maybe because I'm older.

I'm not willing to do it.

I got kids. I'm, I don't know what it is. I don't know what the factors are. It's really that I just, I don't need to, it's like, it's like I said before, like I think being Olympian, being an Olympian is a trap. Like I don't need to be a gold medalist. I don't wanna be Michael Phelps and give up like 20 years of my life. To train every single moment of every single day to become that? Like, that's a great—

I don't think— I don't think his lifestyle is fitting for happiness and maybe, maybe even being fulfilled, but—

And by the way, he would agree. Like, he said that himself pretty openly.

Yeah, he said that. And I'm happy that he exists and I know I am not that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Those are the two certainties that I have on that. You know, before, before we went on— You are real and I, and I, and I, and I am not it.

Face tattoos and cornrows, right?

Yeah. Face tattoos and cornrows. I'm cool. They, other people have them. Not for me.

Yeah. Um, before I went there, I was like, maybe we should really like double down on YouTube. Maybe we should triple down on YouTube. I was like, I think I could become like the biggest business creator on YouTube. Do I want that? I don't know. And then I, when we were there, there was like a 30-minute shoot where he was like, a photo shoot for the thumbnail of one of his videos. And I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to do this. Like, I don't think in my day these are the things I want to spend my energy on. And I think, I think somebody is willing to do that. Of course somebody's willing to do that. Many people are willing to do that to win that game. And I was like, I'd rather do a game where I'm willing to pay the price that it takes to get the outcome that I want.

No, we can try that.

Try not to do it.

You and we, we could play that game, but you don't have to play it his way. You know, his way is a reckless way and it works. But I don't think you have to, you know, like, I like— there are, there are lots of different examples of people succeeding in different ways. You know, the wealthiest guy there, keep in mind, was basically— he was the wealthiest guy there by a lot, I think. And he played the game totally different than, than Jimmy did.

Yeah. But I think the YouTube game that, you know, like there is a I think there is a default path and you'd have to really be saying, I'm going to go try to be an outlier, right? I'm not going to be on— I'm not going to be—

if you want to be—

if you want to be—

I'm talking about the top. Yes. If you wanted to be the top mainstream type of guy, I agree. But there's like lots of things—

if you wanted a sweet lifestyle where we're making a few million dollars a year doing it, like, you're right. There's many ways to do that. But if you want to be the top, right?

And that's the question I ask myself.

Do I want to try to go for that?

No, I don't, but I would, I would, I, I'd be okay with pretty good.

And doesn't that feel weird when you spend time with people who, who are like, they hear that sentence and they're sort of repulsed? Isn't there a part of you that's sort of like embarrassed to say, I'm okay with just good enough? There's a part of me that's for sure embarrassed to feel that way.

There, yeah. And I used to feel, so I used to feel embarrassed about that and then I realized I started like reading all about stoicism and I got went into this Ryan Holiday, like, deep rabbit hole. And I'm like, oh yeah, we're all going to die and we're all going to be bullshit and like, just ashes. Like, I'm not going to play other people's games. But here's the thing I want to wrap up with. I left that weekend a little angry at myself because I experienced envy pretty hardcore and I experienced like inadequacy of like, you know, a lot of places where I go, I'm the big shot there. We were the low— we were probably below average in terms of traditional success. And I remember being there and I'm like, I am nothing and I should want more and I should achieve more. And I remember feeling that way and I felt guilty that I felt that way. I was like, why? Why am I like, you know, why am I feeling envy? This is— envy is like one of the worst feelings you should— you can have. Envy is in some regards worse than hate. And so like, I remember feeling envy and I was like, fuck, I'm falling down the traps. I'm falling, I'm doing it. I'm doing what everyone says you do. And we all know you're not supposed to do. And I said forever, I wouldn't feel that way. I made the number that I made and I thought I won't want any more after that. And I am wanting more and I'm giving into it. And I felt really guilty about that.

I know exactly what you mean. I'll tell you what worked for me to like, it's like a hunger pang, right? You can't prevent yourself from feeling hungry, but you can choose how you're gonna satisfy that, right? How you're gonna address it. And I had come on the pod before when I had visited that person's house that like they had like a $20 million house and I was like, wow, this is just incredible. And I wasted the first 2 days just kind of like being envious and/or like bullshitting about why this was like, yeah, but you know, I wanna focus on family. Like, you know, coming up with these like other things that like, yeah, this is, this is actually bad for these reasons.

Yeah. Just cognitive dissonance.

Yeah. Just like trying to convince myself that I was good. And, and so, you know, and, and what I had come away with there was like, actually the right way to handle that moment is to just reframe it like, oh, this is sick. I'm getting to sample a set of options to see which one I want. Oh, okay. You have this and you live this lifestyle. Tell me about that. I wanna hear about that. I wanna just, This is just the, the person walking around at the party with the tray. Oh yeah, I'll, I'll try the bruschetta. Okay. Do I like bruschetta? Is that what I want? Okay, now let me try the shrimp. Okay. Is that what I want? Is that what I like? So that's how I, that's at this place. I didn't feel the envy per se, because as soon as it came up, I was like, oh, this is cool. I'm getting, this guy lives in Puerto Rico and does this, this and this. Instead of feeling jealous, I pay so much in taxes and he doesn't. Let me learn about that. This person has this wild success and they kind of work this one, one week out of a month. All right, is that what I want? What's that like? You know, tell me about that. You know, like I was getting to sample, which just helps me figure out what do I really want and I get more broad exposure.

And at the end of the day, you're, you are, you are the one that brought 'em all together though. So, uh, like, but I, I definitely know what you mean, dude.

When it was like, all right, let's go around the circle and like tell what's your story? What's your, what's your thing? I'm like, oh damn, my little like, like, you know, cricket level of success compared to the whales, you know. Like, there is a moment where you panic. I've always had this in any group setting where they're like, say your name and, you know, an interesting thing about you. It's like, you know, for a moment, my initial reaction is like, there's nothing interesting about me. Not one iota of me is interesting. I should just leave the room. How far away is the fire alarm? What happens if I vomit? Do I have to do this? Like, you know, like, there's that— that happens in 3 seconds, and then my body's like, oh wait, what are you doing? What are you talking like, and then I come back to normal.

But I, yeah, that reaction happens to me in these group settings for sure. That was, uh, I, I remember I felt the exact same way and I was like, I am nothing. Uh, so, but here it kind of made me feel better when people who I didn't know told me about my life and I'm like, ah, fucker, you listen, got you. Like, you know what I mean? So, so I gotta tell you, that was a little better.

Totally unrelated story, but you just reminded me of it. It's so hilarious. Once upon a— back in the day, me and my buddies used to go gamble a lot. We didn't have much money. We were just fresh out of college. We basically had won a business plan competition and we were like extending the runway by going and playing poker and like trying to like win a few extra thousand dollars doing it. But sometimes we would lose. And so who knows, we probably netted out, you know, slightly down. Anyways, one of the guys, he would play table games where you have no edge. You're You're going to lose. And so he'd go play craps, whatever. And when he would lose, we'd be like, all right, man, like, we should cut it off. And he's like, hold on, let me just go get a coffee to go to the ATM and get more money and come back. And we're like, ah, dude, he's a degenerate. We gotta stop him. But we didn't. So we came back up to the hotel room and he's gone for like another 5 hours. 5:00 AM, he comes back into the room and I wake up cuz I hear the noise and he doesn't know that I'm awake. We're, we're asleep. He doesn't know that, that I'm awake. And He's— he comes up to the— he stands in front of the mirror in the hotel room. All right, actually, first he goes to the bathroom, changes into the robe, which is always the sign of somebody trying to get their value out of the hotel room because they lost a bunch of money in the casino. This is a little tip for degenerates. It's when they start using all the shampoos and stuff, they're trying to get back at the casino. So he goes, comes out in a robe, he's looking at the mirror, and he just goes, you suck, you suck. And he just goes, you fat fuck, you suck. He's just dissing himself and he just goes And he just holds up his hand. He goes, 5. 5 iPhones. You lost 5 iPhones. He's telling you something. And dude, I start laughing so hard. He realizes that we're awake. And then it was like, it totally lightened the mood just 'cause of how funny the situation was. And we always reference 5 iPhone. We always like, how, if I go gambling, he's like, how many iPhones? I'm like, 3 iPhones. I lost 3, I lost 3 iPhones.

About a stack phones.

Rappers use like racks. Like how many racks did you lose or how much racks did you win. We use iPhones. And, uh, dude, I'll never forget that story. It was so funny.

And that's what, that's what I was telling myself. Uh, uh, a million subscribers? You only have a million subscribers?

I remember, uh, delete your account.

That weekend you and I, this channel, we hit 100,000 subscribers, subscribers. And then I went and looked at Jimmy's numbers and I think he was adding like a million a week or sorry, a million a month. I forget what it was, but, uh, what, or sorry, 100,000 a day. He was what he was adding.

And I was like, yeah, we were like, we just hit 100,000. He goes, nice. Today.

I remember that's how I felt. I was like, oh, we suck. We suck so hard. Uh, I felt that way. Um, Ben, are people, is this, is this going to be a great episode? I, I, I got so much energy from this.

This is definitely self-indulgent, but like, who cares? I needed to debrief this. And I would say like, I did think some parts were patting ourselves in the back, some parts were making fun of us ourselves, sometimes making fun of other people. I hope we weren't hard on anybody. Uh, you know, Ben, what do you think?

Um, it's good. The one thing we didn't talk about was the actual basketball, which I just, you know, oh, oh yeah.

So here's the reason Ben's saying that. So in terms of best basketball player. What a coincidence, Ben, it was like Ben was number 1 and then Nick Huber was like probably number 2, number 3. Commodore was 2 or number 3, but Ben was clearly the best. And at one point, Ben, I think a couple of times he dunked in the game, but at one point he like dunked on Jimmy and there's a perfect picture. Ben was without a doubt the best basketball player there. That, that, that, that was, that was for sure.

So I have to tell you, Uh, before going, I was talking to my wife and I was like, you know, I think a big, I think I'm gonna be the best person there, but like a big struggle for me is I want to like keep everything in check. Like, you know, there, there's a lot of people there with a lot of money, a lot of influence, like a lot of a big audience. Like they could do things for me in the future. I don't wanna like offend anyone or upset anyone.

Like keep, keep blood in check. Like I don't wanna embarrass anybody or like be too competitive.

Yeah. Like, and, or just like seem like a ball hog or like, come off the wrong way.

Right.

Uh, I like, I just wanna make sure everyone has a good time. Everyone has fun. So I go and literally, and for like 5 minutes, I'm good for like 5 minutes. I'm just playing in the flow of the game, making sure everyone has a good time. And then Nick Huber comes down and like does a little move on me and scores. And Sean, I don't know if you did this on purpose. Sean comes over and is like, dang, Nick Huber is good. I think he's the best one here.

And I lose it.

I lost it. I like immediately went out of my mind.

I was like, You think he's the best one here? I'll tell you exactly what you said. We're in the middle of a game, by the way. This is not like— I didn't like— I don't even know how we were having such a conversation, but I was like, I said something. I was like, damn. I was like, Nick's good. I was like this. Well, we got to guard Nick. I think he's the best one here. And because we don't know anybody here, right? We don't know who plays, who doesn't play. Like we're all finding out in the first 5 minutes, like who knows how to ball, who doesn't. And, and Ben goes, F that. Uh, he goes, F that, I'm guarding him. I know you want to go, you go, F that, I'm the best player here, I'm guarding him. And, and then you, and then you proceeded to, so then that, whatever you said, I'm shutting him down. Yeah, you go, I'm shutting him down. And, uh, and so you, whatever you, you, you go, we score, we ended up winning that game. And, uh, and then like, whatever, I subbed out, whatever. And so 5 minutes later, Nick subs out of the game and he's just walking away muttering to himself. He just goes, I can't effing score on Ben. He's like a wall. And I was like, wow, mission accomplished. Like you really flipped that switch. And it, and it was so fun to see it because honestly, every, every moment I've interacted with you outside of that game or like pickup basketball, you are, if I would just describe you as too nice, you are, you know, like you are overly nice. You are overly, you know, you're a very polite guy. You are low ego, very, very humble, too humble. I want you to have more of an edge and an ego and want to make your podcast the biggest podcast in the world. And like, I never saw that until we were playing basketball. I saw a different side of you, dude.

I was talking— I was talking shit to him just to get him fired up. And he like just was— he did the same thing to me where he just is like, he just had his way with me. And but I was talking shit to him constantly just to get him going. And he totally got going. And Sean, you're really good too. You, you in that last game, you had a bunch of threes. You're shooting good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We haven't talked about Sean's big moment.

Uh, what was the big moment? The half-court shot?

No, the big moment was when we were in the championship game and, uh, I think my back was failing a little bit. We were on the same team.

Yeah.

What was going on? You were looking like you were in pain. I didn't understand that, but I was like, okay, give me the ball.

So you guys know that like big dunk I had, uh, early on? I threw my back out when I did that dunk. So for the whole rest of the day, I had like no lift and I was in like pretty severe pain. And, uh, and, um, so we were gonna lose, like, we're gonna lose pretty bad. And then Sean, how many points did you have? You hit like 4 threes in a row and like a couple twos. You like took over the game.

Yeah, I was also lucky that I was fresh. I went and dropped Husson off at the airport, so I came back in like right for the playoffs. Basically everybody been playing for like, you know, an hour before that, and I got to come in completely fresh. So that was kind of lucky. Uh, and then Sam, we, um, uh, we don't have a moment where you dunked or took over the game, but I do have an award for you. We, me and Ben, uh, Ben Levy, we started creating some awards for people, and I'll just give you a sneak preview. Your award is person who most played basketball like it was football.

I didn't know the rules.

Physical motherfucker, man. You like, dude, if I was guarding you, you're the only person that anybody else there, okay, they could score on me, whatever, but I'm never gonna call for a switch. I'm gonna be like, I got this guy. If I was guarding Sam, I'd be like, uh, who wants to switch? I am not looking to be like a battering ram right now. Uh, nobody else started boxing out earlier than you.

Well, I go to bed and comment. I go, hey guys, I don't really know the rules. I can't dribble. I can't really do anything. What would you like me to do? They're like, well, you got a big ass and you could jump high. So just like, uh, stay down low and just jump up and grab the ball and give it to me. And I go, oh, yes sir. I got you. I got you, captain. And so that's all I did.

That was amazing. Uh, that was a lot of fun. And, uh, yeah, let's do it again.

Alright, that's the app.