Our Best And Worst Investments of 2025

All right, so Steph, welcome back. You've been on, uh, I don't know, a dozen times or so. You're a great friend of the pod. We wanted to, to do this with you. So we have categories, a bunch of categories for the year, and we're gonna go rapid fire through them, uh, and, and we'll do it, do it that way. Okay, so Steph, you've been given the categories, but we don't know what you said. Sam, I don't know what you said. This will be a surprise for all of us.

Well, I wish you actually would have recapped some of the numbers, but over the last 12 months, Sean, I don't know if you've known this, but we've had something like 90 million views across everything, downloads and views. So pretty wild. I, that always, that always—

across, I believe, I think we're close to 2 million subscribers across YouTube, Spotify, and Apple or whatever, which is bananas. I mean, that number, 90 million, that's a lot of, that's a lot of view time, a lot of views.

It's a lot. And like, there's definitely like 1 or 2 shorts that got like 10 million, I think last year, I think we had last year there was one where we told the story. Maybe you told the story of Elon Musk. I think it got 30 million. So like some go really heavy, but it's been pretty crazy. So we've reached tens of millions of people in the last 12 months, which is astounding. And now we do this at the end of every year and it's one of my favorite things. We do mostly the same categories each year, but it's always like so fun to go through your phone and like look at old photos and see what's going on from your trail in 12 months. So I'm excited to do this. So Category number 1, the best investment that you made this year. Is that right?

Best investment you made this year. So, Sam, you want to kick this off?

Yeah. So my— if this just says investment, it doesn't say best money investment. My best money investment is always boring because I just do S&P 500 bonds. But my best real investment that I made was I moved to New York City. And let me tell you the story. So I was living in the suburbs. I decided to move to New York City. I moved here and I found an apartment that I loved. It was furnished amazingly. and I go to the previous tenants, I go, I want to move in this apartment. Do you guys just want to sell me all your furniture? And so I had them itemize all of their furniture and it added up to be very expensive, $80,000 or $90,000 worth of stuff. I said, I'll give you 10%. They took it. So I ended up moving to the city in a furnished apartment where I get to see my in-laws 4 days a week. I go to my office 5 days a week and it's made me so happy. So that's been my best investment was moving to a furnished place. I sold all my cars. I don't own basically anything and I love it.

Owning less stuff, moving to the city, being near your family.

Yeah.

Working in person in an office. That's actually a pretty big change overall.

Huge change. And it's definitely made me a lot happier.

Questionable if it's an investment, but it is a huge change. I will give you that.

It's an emotional investment. I'm emotionally invested in this city now.

See, this is why I don't do index funds and bonds, because imagine if I'm one day on a podcast and they ask me about best investment of the year and I can't— I have to start talking about seeing my mother-in-law. Like, that's just— that's why I don't— that's why I pick stocks, baby. That's why.

Yeah. Like, what am I going to say? My net worth went up by 30% this year through boring stuff.

Like, Steph, what do you got? Best investment of the year. Tell me it's an actual investment and not like—

Sean, I'm about to disappoint you, man.

Oh my God.

The only time I check the S&P is to gauge my husband's mood for the day. So he invests all our money. And so I gotta, I gotta come up with something else. My investment is also not really an investment, but, um, it's Accutane. You guys know what Accutane is?

What?

Yes. Yes.

Is that like acne medicine? What is that?

Yes, yes, yes. Um, so backstory real quick. I've had acne my whole life, like truly since I was 13. I'm 32 now. So what is that? That's nearly 2 decades of just Unnecessary pain, time applied, just the worst. Anyone who's had acne knows it sucks. So I spent forever just being like, it'll go away, I'm getting older. And then, and then I was influenced by the king influencer, MrBeast. He was on, I can't even remember what podcast, but he just slipped it in one day. He was like, yeah, I took Accutane a few years ago. Didn't really tell anyone, but like, "one day my acne just disappeared overnight. I don't know why more people don't talk about this." And I was like, first of all, yes, why don't more people talk about this? And second of all, I'm gonna call up my dermatologist and ask why I'm not on Accutane. And I took it for 6 months this year and I'm clear. And I think it's like, you know, obviously your mileage may vary, go talk to a doctor, but I'm just like, this is the best thing ever. People, the internet can do the comparison. I mean, I always wear makeup, so Take right now, go back to like V1 of me on my first million. It's gonna look different.

You should post a tweet of a true before and after.

Well, I mean, I think that's the thing. People are so embarrassed to like, you know, if I were to actually take, I'm sure I've got some images of me, no makeup during those periods. It's embarrassing.

So, well, we have another category called biggest personal L you took and maybe there will be something that might just fit that.

Oh, I'll take a picture just for that.

We shared during that time. Um, okay, so you also didn't do the category. We're off to a, a rough start here. Um, all right, so my investment— so it is actually kind of funny. A year ago to the, to the day, so this December 17th today, I tweeted out on December 16th this tweet. So I said, I'm going Christmas shopping this morning. I'm Xmas shopping assets this morning. And I tweeted out So basically what I did was that day I took, um, something like $1.5 million and I spread it across these stocks. And I tweeted it out that day. I said, I'm putting 20% into Shopify, 20% into Tesla, 20% into Eli Lilly, 20% into Bitcoin, 20% into Coinbase. The one I forgot to put on here is I also put 20% Google. And, um, or sorry, not 20% Google. I put basically, I put $250K into each one. So I think the total was $1.25 $1 million invested on the same day on December 16th. No dollar cost averaging, no research, no nothing. I was just feeling like these are things I would like to gift myself for long-term ownership. And, um, if I look— so the results of these now are what? So I just looked this morning because I haven't really been checking too aggressively. So I had a couple that were flat. So Coinbase and Bitcoin are essentially flat. Coinbase is up 1%, Bitcoin's down 8%, uh, in that total year span. But everything else— Shopify's up 53%, Tesla's up 16, 17%, Eli Lilly's up 35%, Google's up 50%. And so my public stock bet that I put out there is my best investment of the year because, uh, you know, I think the blended average here is something— what is that, uh, let me I thought I pulled it up somewhere. I think it's something like 35% for the year. And so that was a, that was a good return on a one-day shopping spree. I—

you use these words like shopping spree and things like that as if they apply here, which is hilarious.

I was supposed to be Christmas shopping gifts for others and instead I bought stocks for myself.

I thought you committed to the index path last year. I distinctly remember you saying that.

If I did, These are false promises. I am part of this degenerate lifestyle for now and for always.

So Sean, what do you do? Do you keep those 5 or do you pick 5 new ones?

The one, the one part that's not as— I'm not trading these. These are like, what companies do I— what companies or assets do I want to own for like a 10-year period? 10 years is my sort of default hold period. And that's what I graduated in college in 2010. And it's basically what I've been doing since then. So I held I had one thing that I bought for, you know, 2010 to 2020. And then in 2020, I bought a bunch of stuff which wasn't so great because that was when COVID was happening and it was like a really crazy time. But in general, when I buy things, I try to hold them for 10 years. That's the goal.

Why Eli Lilly? Because they do Ozempic.

Because you told me that they had some drug that was incredible and you were like, retrutatii— what is it? You texted me something and I was like, listen, I didn't listen when Sam said the Ozempic thing. But literally it was one. It was literally the only that it was just you telling me that this drug is incredible and it puts Ozempic to shame and it wasn't fully out yet or something. I don't know what. I don't know. You had some early— I got a guy around this.

Yeah, I had a guy basically. So I like to biohack, so I test all types of crazy stuff. A lot of times it's like compound stuff, meaning like it's like stuff from China and I don't know, like what I'm allowed to admit to right now. I don't want to like go to jail. But yeah, your friend. Yeah, that's all this. Yeah.

And your friend also named Sam.

And it did all of the stuff that Ozempic does other than make your stomach feel sick. And I started taking it and it's amazing. It's so good. I mean, I don't take this stuff like regularly. It just— anytime something new comes out, it's sort of like, oh, what's a DVD player? I got to buy one. You know, that's what I do with drugs. Like, you learn about new technology and it was amazing.

So you told me this and then since then you research it. No, no, no, dude, you told me, I think that day. And I was like, you know what? I'm putting Lilly in here.

It's up 34%.

It's up 34%. Um, I didn't say I researched these, by the way. I operate on gut and swagger. Okay. Um, and so the, the, the diff— since then, the, the CEO of Eli Lilly has come on and, um, cause Lilly has turned into like a trillion dollar company. It's like the first pharmaceutical company to do that. And he's explained all the incredible things that they do differently than the others and how they're using AI and I feel better about it now. There's more to like, but I can't say that any of those were the reasons why I did it. Like, yeah, they do seem to operate like more of a tech company now, but I don't know, it just seemed like people were going to want— I just sort of was like, people are going to— Ozempic is like the best product ever. And Sam says they have a better Ozempic coming. All right, great.

That's enough. I don't need to buy it.

Sean's investment thesis just says Sam tried some drug. That's it.

Well, the history of me, that's been all right. I've missed 4 of Sam's other ones. And so I thought, well, for once I'll do this.

Like, for example, like, do you remember when we, uh, invested in the, uh, mobility trend on Instagram.

No payoff, but yeah.

Yeah. Like, like there has been a few things. We invested in Andrew Huberman early on. We've, we've got a couple investments, uh, right? It just turns out this one was financial. Um, that's cool.

That's great. Uh, Steph, you have some offer for people who are listening. What is the, what is the offer? What is the thing that you were giving people if they go in the comments or the description and click? What is it?

Oh yeah. HubSpot and you guys at My First Million were very kind and generous to offer. Um, Internet Pipes is a project I've worked on for the last 2 years. Probably heard about it on the pod before. So if you go to the link, I guess, in the show notes, you can enter and get one of 10 copies. And if you enter, you get my digits database. So it's like 100+ like generation-defining trends that hopefully will mean something meaningful in the future. Things like, what did Elon see? He saw that it was possible to exponentially decrease the cost to send a kilogram to space. What does that mean? Well, it means like completely rethinking our communication system. Starlink, right? What is it?

They go in, they, they definitely get the database, and then 10 people will also get, uh, free access to pipes.

Exactly.

All right, go get it. Okay, so does that mean that worst investment of the year is also going to have no answers for you guys?

Are we— yeah, I have one. I, you know, when I sold my company, I got a bunch of HubSpot stock and I held on to a lot of it. And then I saw how multiples were getting crazy and I had to like even out because it was making up too high of a percentage of my net worth. But I still kept some of it. So I got my ass kicked on that one. How about you, Steph?

Sean's not going to like my answer, but it's, it's not financial. I did get a vitamin.

Is it a vitamin or like a supplement of some kind?

Worst investment of vitamin. No, I, uh, I did get a notice that a bubble tea company I invested in a few years ago during peak SERP went under. Unsurprisingly.

Oh dude, I've got like 20 of those this year.

Oh wait, it was literally these founders who were on one of those like crowdfunding sites who was like, just had no, no real evidence that they would make a great bubble tea company, but I was like, bubble tea is great. And invested in that, but my actual answer for worst investment that is not financial is just, uh, networking events. I feel like you guys already know this, but like, it's taken me way too long to name names.

Which conferences do you regret this year? Let's, let's put them out there.

All of them. Uh, yeah, I think that's, that's my worst investment. Going to all these things that you just like, you know beforehand are going to suck. You're not going to like them, but there's some sliver of you that thinks like there might be something good there.

And then were you required to go or it was an optional attend and then you regretted it?

It was, it was an optional attend. It was a lack of judgment.

Gotcha.

What about you, Sean? Okay.

I like it. Um, Sam, anything you want to add to her, uh, her networking event answer?

No. I mean, what am I going to— no, I agree with you, but yeah, I'm, I'm on board. What about yours, Sean? What's your biggest hell? Or sorry, your biggest flaw?

I went to one networking event with you and, uh, I thought you did great. I was like, wow, she's such a natural at these events. Not because you, because you weren't trying. And I was like, oh, people just seem to gravitate towards Steph. They want to hang out with her. She seems like a safe space for everybody who's exhausted from the networking part of this event. And I just remember thinking, I don't know how she did that, but I like that. That was great.

By the way, I had a great year at networking events. I went to an email newsletter conference. We went to Sean's basketball thing. I went to the HubSpot conference, like, somewhat recently. I had a great year. Did you have— like, I guess I only—

That sounds much better than the others. What? So So you had a great, uh, like you—

I like going to networking.

A good time.

Yeah. Like if I pick it. Yeah. Cause I like seeing old friends. I've been in the industry for long enough that it's the only time that I see old buddies.

That's fair. Yeah, that's true.

Like, did you go? Did you like going to HubSpot?

I didn't really go to, I didn't really go to anything this year.

You went to inbound?

Well, that was in San Francisco. I just showed up and gave my talk and I left. So it was like, you know, a very quick thing. Um, All right. I hung out with Dharmesh actually at the event. That was like kind of the only thing I did.

Yeah, that sounds awesome.

But, um, okay, I'll give you my worst investment of the year. Um, once again, I took these literally. So here's my, uh, uh, this wasn't okay. So I guess this is a little less literal. I didn't lose money much in any investments this year, which was nice. 'Cause in prior years, if you go back and watch these awards, it's like, hey, invested in this crypto Ponzi scheme. What's up with that? Uh, you know, that was, that was pretty bad. You know, I've, I've, run into some trouble along the way. This year I didn't have any. But I will say this. I realized, I found out this year that I had, I passed on 3 different $10 billion startup investments that were right in my wheelhouse. Which was unbelievable. So the first one was Polymarket. I was one of the early users, probably the first 5,000 users of Polymarket. I'm a degenerate gambler. I, you know, my college GPA is like half a point lower than it should be because I used to go gamble on riverboats in international waters and stuff instead of going to class. Like, I am a degenerate gambler. I was using Polymarket. I was VPNing to pretend I'm in Morocco to place bets, allegedly. And so, you know, I'm using Polymarket. I love the thing. The founder is in my DMs. He's, he screenshotted his phone and posted one of my blog posts as the background of his phone. He's like, I thought you'd like this. This is my background. Of my phone this week. And I was like, the ultimate in and didn't somehow end up making an investment. Just like didn't, didn't go actively try to do it, uh, until it was too late. Calsci, same thing, another prediction market, same product. If I didn't hit the winner, you know, the first winner, PolyMarket, maybe I could have hit the second winner. I go back, I check my DMs. They've been DMing me since 2020. Hey, huge fans of the pod. Would love to do something with you. Uh, you know, all I needed to do was, uh, answer. And guess what? I did answer. And here's what, here's what my great answer was. Uh, so pretty similar to Polymarket then, huh? That was my son of a gun answer. How much would you have made? The valuations of those were probably sub $100 million for sure at that stage. Um, and now they're both above $10 billion. So no public math, but somebody in the chat can tell me how much money I lost. And the last one was Whatnot. So I get acquired by Twitch, the number one live streaming platform. When I'm at Twitch, guess what I do? I tell Twitch, Hey, we're losing the battlefield on mobile. I become the leader of mobile at Twitch to do mobile livestream.

Dude, we talked about these guys on the pod too. You had a great spiel on them.

Talked about on the pod. I actually meet with them. I try, I asked to invest. I'm like, guys, I could help you. I know this space inside and out. I know all the talent you need to recruit. I know the best people from Twitch. We'll go poach them. We'll raid the pantry. This is going to be amazing. And they were like, he was like, yeah, you know, we're pretty oversubscribed. And I was like, It's me. Make some space. And he's like, all right, let me get back to you. He did not get back to me, and I did not get back to him, and I did not invest in Whatnot's first round. Um, and I— and now it's a $10 billion company also. And it was literally the thing I was doing, the thing I know probably, you know, there's not— there's not 100 people on earth that know that space better than I do, you know, and missed it.

How many of your investments went under this year? Because I— this was the year where, uh, I probably got 10 emails of different angel companies that I, uh, angel investments that that I made that they went under. It took about 3 years.

Well, it's, it's the worst phase, right? So we're, I, we're probably both since we started like angel investing, you, you had a syndicate. I had a fund.

Like 21.

The worst phase is going to be like year 3, year 4, because the only companies that are exiting are either small exits or just shutdowns at this stage. Your winners are going to ride for another 5 years. So it's like AngelList, you got a distribution and you go check and it's like $3.41 from this company. And then the founders bragging about their acquisition on Twitter and you're like, just shoot me now.

Would you— going back, how many angel investments have you done, Steph?

I don't know, like 15.

Okay, so going back and— okay, so first of all, let's look forward in the future. 5 years from now, let's say you invested $100. What do you think that $100 is going to turn into for both of you? Or what? What IRR? I don't know how you want to measure it, but it's hard to say.

I think it'll 3 to 4x basically over the 10-year period. So it'll be something like a As a guess, you know, if I was— my personal guess would be like something like, uh, something like a 3 to 4x over that, over the 10-year lifespan.

That does not seem worth it.

That doesn't even seem worth it for the K1s I have to deal with, honestly. I don't know if you guys are different. My learning from Peak Zerp was I never want to angel invest again. I— unless it's a company that I want to be involved with actively.

It depends. So like I use a conservative estimate just to keep— not like get my hopes up or just like false promise myself. But the thing with these is it depends on basically your bet. Like I did 110 deals. Yeah, it just depends on your top 4 deals. So it's like I have these 4 companies right now, they're doing amazing. They're, you know, like whatever, 100x returns on each of them or 50 to 100x. But like, will they, will they last? Will they exit? Are they going to go up another order of magnitude from here? Like, that's what you need in angel investing is to get like this sort of like multi-hundred X or 1,000 X type of return. And then you look like a genius, but you don't really know for a while, to be honest. Like even the companies that are kicking ass right now, the breakouts, they were, you know, it's hard to know. Can they sustain it? Will they get the, will they time the exit? Will they actually IPO? What's going to happen? You know, it's hard to know.

I did, I've done 56. My first 2 or 3 were pretty great. Like, you know, maybe 10 X or plus. And then my last 2 were like 100 X or something like crazy like that. And so basically I had to go through 50 of them to get like the 1 or 2 winners, which is pretty, pretty wild. And so it will be—

but that's the norm. It's the normal hit rate.

It's normal, but it doesn't feel good when you're on number 48.

The trick isn't even out of 100, can you get 12 instead of 6? It's are your 6 as big as the big winners are in any given cohort of companies, right? Like, and it's also hard to know, right? I invested in Replit. And it had like $2 million in revenue. It now has $250 million in revenue, annual revenue. It's growing like crazy. Like, it's unbelievable. But like, where does this all go? It's hard to— it's hard to know, you know, if that's sustainable to keep growing as fast as they've been growing.

All right. So next category is the biggest personal L that we took. Okay. I'm going to tell you what mine is, and it's going to make you guys all just like, cringe. So basically, I was at a party about 6 months ago, and I overhear this group of people talking about being pregnant. And this one lady, I, I can't even tell it, tell you. I asked her when she was due.

I've done that.

She wasn't due.

She wasn't due. And I, I said, I said, what do you do? What? Dude, I spent—

why are you looking at me like that?

I spent 30 seconds looking for an out. Oh, I thought I, I, I did. In front of 5 other people, I just apologized. I said sorry and I walked away. I said, I'm so sorry. I, I I tried. I was like a guy falling off a cliff, grabbing for trees, and I couldn't grab a branch. And I was like, I, uh, I, I thought you said you were pregnant. I didn't see your kid with you, but so I didn't know, like, you had a kid and you left him behind. And then eventually it just was, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. Yeah, I just apologized.

It's so funny because on podcast, you know, you self-deprecating is good, but like, what's worse Full deprecating. Don't go full deprecating. You went full deprecating there.

I just like, I truly, I'm not joking. And then my nanny was with me, like we went to a party and she was like, you really blew that one.

I was like, I could tell I did that at a Christmas party in 2013. I could tell you the exact place and date where that happened.

Everyone can.

And then it was like, I've just never, it's never left me how I'm now.

I knew not to do that. I knew not to do that, but I just like.

I told you about when I did it.

I knew not to do it. But it's sort of like, I don't know, like when you instinctively stop at a red light. Like, I just thought I heard her say that she was pregnant and I just said, wait, what do you do? I don't know. It was horrible. And like, it's one of these things that I'm going to remember for the next 50 years.

Wait, I'm so curious. What do these women say when you apologize? Are they like, oh, it's okay. Like, people do this to me all the time. Or are they like, you're an asshole?

No, she erupted in my face. She basically just smiled like smugly. You know, screw this lady actually, because it's her fault. No, she like looked at me and just like, she like acted disappointed in me.

Which she was.

So I don't know. She looked pregnant. She looked like a normal person, just had a big belly.

Doubling down.

Wow.

That's outrageous.

Oh boy.

Amazing. We should, we should segue to a HubSpot ad.

Sean, you go next.

All right. So I have a, I have a bad one too. So I got jury duty this year in April and I was like, I've never got, I've never had to go. Like they call, you know, sometimes you call in because it's the every year thing, but it's like Russian roulette. So, you know, you call in, they're like, you don't need to come in, or you go in and right away they're like, hey, you're good to go. I used a hardship thing, like I got to be at work. I got out before. So this year I expect it's gonna go swimmingly again. And I show up and all of a sudden it's like, no, no, you're definitely gonna be needed, you're definitely gonna be seen, there's a really big case. And I'm like, what? I don't want a big case, this is bad. And so I get into the jury duty, like, where they're like vetting people, right? And the judge gives this big speech about civic duty, and like there's a presentation, like Not even a presentation. Remember Prezi? The judge had a— the judge had a Prezi going on.

It was like, the judge is like proud of his animations. He's like, check it out.

Exactly. Like, everybody is the first time they use Prezi, they're like, holy shit, like, this is better than Avatar. Like, and so, so the judge is doing a Prezi about like the Founding Fathers and how this is the jury duty is the bedrock of society and all this shit. As you might guess, I'm completely unmoved. I'm completely unpatriotic in this way. I do not care. And so I'm like, just formulating my idea of how I'm going to get out of this. I'm like, oh, I'll just say I have a work trip. Easy. They gave the dates. Funny enough, I got a work trip. So I'm in the row. So there's like 7 people ahead of me. First person stands up and says, your honor, I have a work trip. I'm not going to be able to attend. And he says, do you have the booking information? Can you please show it to me? And I'm like, what? And so that guy starts. So I go on my phone and I'm like, so I book a flight. And person number 2 goes, I don't hear him. I'm booking a flight. Person 3 goes, I'm booking a flight. The judge has reviewed that person's booking and says, this was booked today and you got your— this was booked in the window after you were served notice. The flight needed to be booked before that. So now I've got a booking and my lie is gone. So I'm like, okay, what am I going to do next? So the next person goes and they say, like, I'm really important at work. And so I'm like, I have this podcast. And I'm like, that's not going to work. So I'm like, that's not going to work. What do I do next? So eventually comes to me and I'm like, I have a— I do have a baby at home. So I was like, I have a baby at home. I need to be there to take care of the baby. My wife works. And so judge is like, does your wife work at home? And I'm like, it's a personal question. But so I'm like, do I lie? Do I not lie? I'm like, she is at home, but But I'm like trying to figure out like, how do I— like, can I, can I muddy the waters a little bit? So I was like, but, you know, she's— and basically the only idea that comes to my mind is to— I'm like, I'm like, she's a bad mom. Like, that's not going to work.

I'm like, I'm the primary caretaker. Drunk, sir.

So I'm like, I'm the primary caretaker of this baby. And then like, you know, like I even remember the baby's middle name at this point. And then she's like, She's like, so could your wife take care of the baby? And I'm like, oh God, like, I'm going way deeper in than I thought I was going to go. And so I'm like, yeah, but I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it. And then she's like, why?

You're like, look, Your Honor, it's— what is it, noon? She's already about 8 Xanax deep. Okay.

I basically made my wife sound like either a bad mom or like a drug addict or something. I like to use a drunk. And so I was like, you know what? I'll be fine. I'll be here. Can't wait to— can't wait. I'll be— I'll be there. And so I just let it pass. Girl next to me, she goes— the lady asks, uh, she's like, can you do it? Um, and she's like, no. And the judge goes, why not? She goes, it's against my religion. I don't believe you should judge anyone. And she's like, what religion is that? She goes— and she cited a Bible passage which was like, like basically about like, don't, don't judge anyone, therefore, you know, because they don't judge you or something. And the judge was Okay, thank you. You're dismissed. Yeah.

Couldn't you?

Oh my God. Couldn't— that was it.

Couldn't you have just told them you're racist or something?

Yeah, I thought about that, but I was like, I was in a very diverse crowd and I was like, I still have to, like, in case I don't get off with that, I don't want to be around these people where I'm saying a lie that I'm racist. So I, you know, it was a tough in the moment, but it was the biggest L I had was just embarrassing myself. And by the way, it was so fun. Jury duty was a great time and I'm glad I got to do it. It was a great opportunity.

Sorry. Uh, was— did you make him guilty or innocent?

I didn't get picked in the end for the actual 8 in the box or whatever, that like the people who actually go sit there. I just didn't get dismissed early. So I, I—

so you spent the day?

I spent 3 days there.

You should wear a purple heart, man. You look at you, you really just taking one for the country.

It was true.

Um, what's yours, Steph?

Guys, I swear my answers get better from here. My biggest personal L, um, was staying in a job too long. No shade to my previous employer, but I think—

Sounds like a lot of shade.

No, no, I promise.

Umbrella.

I promise.

Sounds like a canopy.

I just, you guys know I was working on a podcast for 3 years. It was a really cool opportunity, but I think the epitome of when other people think you should be good at something and you think therefore you should be good at something and that you should figure it out. Versus like driving full force towards the thing that you love doing.

So, and it was a pretty prestigious job. I think a lot of people would have been drunk off that as well.

Yeah. And so now I'm at Groq, um, working on growth, and it's just for me way more fun.

And Steph, did we not have a conversation about this? Did I not tell you this was the case? Did I not try to tell you to don't carry this, this guilt or this feeling like you need to, to prove whatever and that you're a superstar and you should be doing superstar things. I think I gave you that. You're a superstar. You should be doing superstar things talk.

You 100% did. About a year in. And it took me 2 more years to make the call myself.

It didn't land. Yeah, I'm not very persuasive. All right. Next category we have is coolest moment. Coolest moment of the year.

I've got a good one, actually.

Can we, can we skip to— let's do a couple of the, the non-personal stories. We'll come back to that one. So Let's do, you want to do Billy of the Year or favorite guest? Which one you want to do?

Let's do Billy of the Year.

Okay. Billy of the Year. Sam, you go first.

Yes, I did this podcast with this guy named Steve Houghton. Steve Houghton is a billionaire via real estate and oil and gas, which is very vague, but I can explain. But at the end of the pod, I like made like a joke because we had talked about this whole podcast about how he was a billionaire, but it seemed like his kids really loved him. And I like made an offhanded comment like, yeah, man, I should— I got to come out and see how you manage your family. Sometimes it's an inspiration. And without skipping a beat, he was like, how about in 4 weeks? We're going to be at our ski house. We have a room for you. And I was like, all right. And I just said yes. And then I had to go downstairs to my wife. I go, pack your bags, Sarah, we're going to Utah. She's like, with who? I was like, I met this guy. I just did a podcast with him. I've only known him for 60 minutes. I don't know anything about him, but we're going to his house. And I got to his house and it was amazing. And it was amazing for a bunch of reasons because I got to see how he like worked with his family and it was really amazing. But it was pretty funny. They say money doesn't buy happiness, but I was very happy being in the 17,000 square foot home with his entire family. And I mean, this sounds like I'm being a D-bag, but this is the truth. I do think that wealthy people see their grown kids more than non-wealthy people simply for the fact that there was room for all of us to be there and be comfortable. And it was amazing. And I've since, like, stayed in touch with his kids and he had another family there as well. and it was such a fun experience. And so Steve Houghton was my Billy of the Week, Billy of the Year.

Billy of the Year. Love it. Steph, who you got? Billy of the Year.

All right. So I tried to start from the perspective of what is a piece of technology that I think is just incredible and mattered this year. That piece of technology for me was Waymo. Um, a lot of people are familiar with it. I got to interview their chief Chief Product Officer a few years ago in a Waymo. And it's kind of crazy when you actually think about it. I think that was max 2 years ago, maybe 3. And when we were riding in that car in San Francisco, people at that time were still like peering into the windows like, oh my God, look at that crazy thing. And in the last few years, at least in, in San Francisco, Phoenix, a few other cities, it is so normal. There's Waymos upon Waymos upon— like, there's I've been at intersections where there's 8 Waymos at that intersection.

Does it make traffic faster?

No, not necessarily, but I think if you could have all the cars on the road, it would make traffic faster for sure. Um, but the person I chose, the Billy, I don't know if he's actually a billionaire, so I'm cheating a little bit, but he's for sure a hundreds of millionaire, is Sebastian Thrun. He was, um, one of the early He's like the father, godfather of self-driving. Exactly. So let me throw out a few different pieces of his timeline. So he was motivated by personal tragedy. His childhood friend was killed in a car accident when he was 18. That got him invested in trying to figure out this self-driving equation. In 2005, so 20 years ago, DARPA had a grand challenge funded by the U.S. government. His team won. Then, 2007, he goes and he joins Google. And he didn't just create Waymo, he also co-founded and led Google X, their moonshot factory. He co-developed Google Street View, and of course, he was one of the creators of Waymo way back when. But here's the thing, he left in 2014, and he's also gone on to do some really cool shit. So in 2011, he put out this Introduction to Artificial Intelligence course online for free. 160,000 students enrolled. Um, because he saw how people could learn online, you don't need to be at Stanford to learn about AI, he created Udacity in 2011. And then since then, he's also, um, led the Kitty Hawk Corporation. They were building electric flying cars, didn't ultimately end up working out, but that's another thing that he's been like super early to. We're now seeing these EV tool companies, you know, get off the ground. I just think this guy is super cool. Like he's been early to all of these trends and, um, is just like continuing to build even though he's already, you know, he was early to Waymo, he's rich, and he's just continuing to dabble.

This guy's prolific. Good find.

There's a, there's like a lineage, I think, of people under him. Like, he had his initial lab, maybe at Stanford or whatever, and somebody who was doing self-driving was describing, like, you know, basically all the modern self-driving kind of, like, leaders. If you just trace their kind of lineage, it's like he had 6 people or 7 people under him. It was that school of thought that sort of like branched out and created like all the different people in the industry today. So he's very much like what was, was a sort of grandfather or godfather to that, to the industry.

He's also, he's got some range because like he created a, you know, these cars things, which is like the most brilliant thing on earth. But then also he has a course business and his, that's, I'm being silly a little bit, but that's like not, in my opinion, in the same category of, of, of flying cars. But it's— Udacity to me is a very respectable, like, amazing thing. And so it's pretty cool how much range she has.

Yeah. So all of us who create courses, we're just like these self-driving car guys, right?

We have to do the other half.

Same range.

Usually range is like wide. This is almost like up and down. Yeah.

Our barbell doesn't have the weight on the other side yet, so it's a little awkward to hold. So we definitely have to go and do that. But that's pretty cool though.

All right. Mine, um, came down to a coin flip between John Morgan and Jesse Cole. I went with Jesse Cole. So, uh, we did an episode with him on the podcast and I was incredibly inspired by this guy. So he's done what I think is basically impossible. Um, if somebody had told me that like 10 years ago, like, hey, there's going to be somebody who is going to make a minor league baseball team have, you know, more followers on social media than the Yankees. And by the way, and all other MLB teams combined, they're going to have like a 3 million person waitlist and be selling out 80,000 person stadiums. And that he bootstrapped the business with his wife to, you know, $100 million plus. I just think that is like, that is playing business on like such hard mode. That is like the equivalent. If you're non-technical, that's the equivalent of rockets that land themselves. Is to take a minor league baseball team that nobody gives a shit about in a league that nobody gives a shit about with players that nobody's ever heard of and turn it into this incredible entertainment thing. And the way he did it was just so like, I don't know, from the soul and passionate, right? Like there's a lot of creativity in the, in the, you know, being basically a modern day like P.T. Barnum. There was a lot of this like passion and soul to like the hustle to do this. Like, you know, he's on the pod, he's written 4 books behind him. They do a show every weekend. You know, like, they're traveling the world. He's just doing everything. And it's just like, man, I would, I would never, ever, ever be able to do something like that. And then the last thing was like, I don't know, he was just a sweetheart when he was on the pod. He was such a nice guy, so genuine. I think Sam, you told me like they foster like kids as well. I was just like, geez, how good, like, how good is this human being? And I just feel like we are lucky that there's somebody as kind of creative and such a like force of creativity and, um, as this guy, like, walking the earth. I think I even told him that on the pod, like, yeah, I was very glad you were walking the earth, which I've never, like, felt the need to say to another man. But I did that day.

We used to joke and have this concept of, like, the total man. And it was like, what does it mean to be, like, a great man? And he is one of the maybe 3 people we've had in the podcast that I would go in that category where he's like, I felt I was like, you are, you are a very special human being and you are the epitome of what it means to be a man.

We should have just been like, can you lift your shirt up? If you've got a visible ab, You are— if you have visible abs, you are in the club, my friend. Like, that's the only thing that we— it's like the fitness side is the only other part of the Total Man franchise that we don't know about him yet.

I think that, you know, we've talked about this podcast on living a rich life, which means like there's business, there's family, there's, there's having a good life, there's treating people wonderfully. I think that he is one of the richest people that we've ever had on the podcast in terms of a holistic, rich life. He felt like a very special person. If you look through his Instagram, like, he, like, pays tribute to his wife. He talks about his team. You see him, like, giving these inspirational talks to his— to the players. I was just like, this guy's got no flaws. It almost— it was kind of intimidating.

The one little nugget that just kind of showed a lot was they, they don't charge— they eat the sales tax on ticket prices. So they're like, it's $25 for a ticket flat. And it's like, okay, so, but, you know, there's always tax. Plus tax. He's like, no, no, no, we, we, we pay that. We eat the cost of that. It's like at the scale that they operate at, that's just millions and millions of a year just so that the average customer, when they're checking out, feels like they were kind of taken care of versus, you know, being stuck at 2, which is how, you know, Ticketmaster and these, these, these other, you know, things, Live Nation, like you do when you go buy from them, you just feel like you're just being you know, mugged basically at the checkout counter, right? It's like, oh, and then here's the service fee, convenience fee, parking fee, and this fee. And like, it's now triple the cost. And I just thought like that little nugget of like how they, they don't just leave money on the table, but they put money back on the table. I thought told a lot about like, you know, actions versus words. Everybody says they're customer friendly. He also actually— who actually does that? Very few people.

We made— we talked to him. We were like, he made a comment where he was like, whatever you see that you've seen for predictions on how big our business is, It's much bigger. And so, like, I thought that was really cool too. And he didn't even say it as a flex. I think we, like, teased it out of him, but he didn't talk about numbers at all other than that one comment. And I thought that was really cool.

Yeah, that was amazing. All right. Next category we'll do is we'll do the one we were about to do, which was what was the biggest personal—

Coolest moment of life.

Coolest moment.

I've got one. I've got one. So Sean organizes this thing where we go to MrBeast's house and his town and we like tour his property and play basketball with a bunch of successful people. Last year he had someone that was like the 90th richest person in the world. He had all these powerful people. He had MrBeast and MrBeast was giving us a tour of his campus. So it felt like a movie studio. And all of these guys there were trying to kind of be cool a little bit in posture and not— and like MrBeast was, was, was saying the most ridiculous things that you could imagine. Like, we have this guy living in this home for one whole year and he can't leave the home until he loses 100 pounds. And he's like, I spent this much money on this studio and like, we're doing this. And he's just saying like ridiculous stuff. And everyone was trying to be cool. Like, yep, this is what it takes to be the best. Totally get it. And Jesse, Jesse Itzler, who was there, was in the back and he was like, this is the craziest thing. He's like, why isn't anyone calling this guy out? This is the most ridiculous stuff I've ever seen. I can't believe this. How does one person live this way? This is just insane. And Jesse Itzler was like the most sane person there, which he wasn't like insulting MrBeast, but he was like, He, and he was like a very reasonable person. And, Jesse Itzler, I think him and his family are billionaires or near billionaires. He's very successful. And we've met, Sean, a lot of people on the internet who appear a certain way. We've met him in real life and there's some, oftentimes there's a gap, or if you do meet them in real life, you think, I don't want to be like you. Jesse Itzler, it was one of the coolest moments in my life to meet that guy because he was exact, he was better than he appears on the internet and he was very inspirational. And he was like, can we acknowledge that this is just insane and ridiculous? It's cool. But it's just like, this is insane. And then like, there was a funny thing where MrBeast, like, he parks his car like in front of the entrance of the building. Like, he drives his car over the parking lot. And Jesse made fun of him. He's like, dude, there's an open spot right there. What are you doing? And I just thought it was funny that he was like, A, teasing him, and B, he was—

You didn't get swept up in it like the rest of us did.

No, no. And it was so funny. And we were talking about some ridiculous stuff. Like, we had a billionaire there who was talking about how aliens are real. And he knows this because he hangs out with like White House people. Like, it was like pretty funny stuff. It felt like— Did you see that new documentary?

Documentary, by the way, about that topic.

I've been wanting to watch this. Yeah, there's like a, there's like a documentary. What is it called? Do you remember the name?

Uh, let me pull it up.

When we were there, it was, it was, um, I, I don't know if I won't say who it was, but it was a very powerful person who goes, tomorrow you're gonna see a news story about aliens. I know all about it and they're real. Like, he was talking about it.

Yeah, it's called The Age of Disclosure. Color Me Not I'm not fully convinced, but, you know, you should watch it.

Partially convinced.

Did you agree that Jesse Itzler is just the man?

Yeah. So, so my coolest moment's also a Jesse Itzler moment. We didn't plan this, but—

No.

Sam, I don't know if you noticed, I was at his house yesterday. I flew to his house. I spent all yesterday with him. And my coolest moment has to do with that.

So what were you doing with him? Recording a podcast?

You know, Sam's jealous. Sam, you knew we were doing it. Sam's coolest moment was meeting the guy and you just dunked on him being like, I hung out with him yesterday.

Well, he did a, he did a talk in Manhattan just the other day, but I already had plans, so I didn't even get to go. So it just shows how much I really care. But no, he was—

so, uh, so I just flew to his house. So, uh, so the coolest moment of the year, uh, all right. So last year, this time last year, Jesse came on the podcast and he explained his New Year's planning, uh, process and philosophy, how he attacks the new year. And Sam, I don't know if you remember, but we were both pretty inspired by it. And one of his core concepts is this concept of a misogi. So he says, you know, the years fly by. You know, if you ask me right now, what did you do in 2018? I don't know. I'd have to really think, how old was I? Where was I living? What was I doing? Whereas what he does is he picks a misogi, which is a Japanese ritual of a challenge, a hard year-defining thing. So you'll always remember, oh, that was the year I hiked, you know, this. I hiked Everest. That was the year I did my first That was the year I did XYZ. And he could tell you 2015, 2016, 2017. You know, 2015, that's the year that David Goggins lived in my house and I trained with Goggins. 2016, that was the year I lived with the monks. 2017, that was the year I did my first whatever. And so after the pod, I was trying to— I was like, pretty inspired. I was like, what am I going to do? And, you know, Jesse's really adventurous. He's big into these, like, endurance races. That's never something I've been, like, drawn to. So I had the, I had the will, but I didn't have the idea. And that night I'm, uh, before I went to bed, I was watching, I was on YouTube and I saw this recommended video of this. I don't even know why I clicked it. It was like this dude playing the piano and it was this, uh, guy who's, he's this Italian composer. He's basically the most famous piano player in the world at this point. Um, he's like a modern day composer and he was playing this song and he was playing it, a performance he did at the Steve Jobs Theater, which is like, 10 minutes away from where I was. I was at my sister's house, 10 minutes away from her house where I was that night. And I saw it and I was like, what if I did this this year? Like, forget business, forget it. I was like, what if I, what if this was the year I learned, you know, I can't dance, I can't sing, I've never played a musical instrument. Like, I don't have that innate talent. But like, what if this was, what if that's a thing I picked up? What if I could just jam out on the piano specifically? What if I could play this song? And so, as you know, Sam, I've been practicing all year, and I love the Instagram stuff. I've been learning to play. And, uh, but you know, the one thing I didn't do was like, he— the way Jesse's philosophy is, is that you, when you decide you're going to do something, you don't just make it a wish or like a goal. You plan a date. It's like, I'm going to run this race on this day. I'm going to take my kids here on this day. It's on the calendar. It's a thing I'm working towards. So that was the one part I never did. I was like, I don't know, what am I going to do? Piano recital, like, uh, I'm not like 7 years old. I don't know what to do. So yesterday I'm at his house and he's giving us a tour and I'm there to do a podcast with him, the, the another annual planning thing. And he's, we're walking by, he's like, oh, this is my favorite thing in the house. This is a piano my mother gave me before she died. And I was like, do you play? He's like, no, I've never, nobody's ever played this piano. Like, you know, since we got it, it's just, it's here, but I love it. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, this might be the perfect thing. Like that was my misogi last year when we did our annual planning. We're doing it this year. He doesn't know that he kind of triggered me to actually, like, go do something. So I was like, I'm going to do this. So when we were talking about it, I go, can I show you mine? My misogi? And he's like, well, what do you mean? I was like, let's walk over here. And so we go and I play this song. Now I'm playing this song. No, no, it's not a singing thing. It's just a piano song. I'm playing this song. And just the context here is like, I've been playing this every day at my house. I play upstairs in my room. And honestly, like, nobody particularly gives a fuck. Like, my wife, is like, good for you, but can you come help with dinner? Like, you know, like, you know, she's like in the middle of 3 little kids. Like, you know, it's not like I'm getting a pat on the back for this thing. My kids don't really care about classical piano music. My wife doesn't really care. I have never really played for anybody else. And so this is my first time ever playing for anybody. And I turned when I was done and it was like the craziest thing. So Jesse's there, he's crying. His head of strategy there, she's crying, holding the phone. Sarah, his wife, who I'd never met, she's the founder of Spanx, had come downstairs because she heard somebody playing the piano. She's crying. She's like weeping. We have this all. This is going to be crazy. It's all on camera too. I happen to have a camera guy there because recording the podcast. So basically, like, there's this full circle moment of last year he planted the seed. I worked hard on it all year. No, there was no real, like, payoff for it. There's no, like, purpose for doing. I just wanted to do it. And then there was like this amazing payoff moment where they actually gave a shit about like what I was doing and they like appreciated. They were like, that was amazing. And, um, I had never felt that like ever. And so it was, for me, it was not only the coolest moment of the year, it was one of the coolest moments of my life, if I'm being perfectly honest. I'm a little embarrassed to say it, but it really was this like incredible, like high. This, and it was totally serendipitous. I didn't plan for any of that to happen. It's this song called— I don't even know how you say it properly. It's like Italian, but it's Nouveau Bianche. I don't know how you spell this. It's pronounced the second word, but I'll put it in the description.

That one's awesome.

It's this great song. And I was like, I don't know what's happening. I don't know why everyone's crying. I don't know what's going on. But I feel like my parking pass just got extremely validated just now. Thank you guys for that.

That is so cool.

What did they say afterwards?

Dude, he couldn't even continue the pod for like 20 minutes. He's like, dude, I'm blown away. He's like, I need like a minute. And he's like, he was like, that is so cool. He's like, you know, you're 37 years old. You pick up an instrument like you can do that in a year. He's like, if you could do that in a year and his son had come down to listen while we were doing it. And he's like, I'm just so happy my son saw and heard that because I hope it planted a seed with him of like, yo, you can If he can do that in 11 months or whatever, like, dude, you could do anything. Like, anything is on the table for you. And he was just like very inspired by it. And I was like, here's a guy who I admire. Like, you and I have both talked about this. Like, he's our kind of like entrepreneurial North Star. Like, a guy who lives a life well lived all around, you know, 4 kids, beautiful relationship with his wife, does all these adventurous trips with his friends. He's in great shape. He runs 100-mile marathons. He's had incredible business success. He's a great, you know, content creator. You know, he's just a prolific guy. You know, he's built brands like Zico Coconut Water and sold a company to Warren Buffett. It's like, what more do you want out of life, right? Like, this guy's done— he's played a game in a way that I would love to have played a game, the game of life. Um, and so to kind of get like that moment with somebody who I kind of admire, that was, that was definitely my coolest moment of the year.

That's really great.

That's a very interesting story. Yeah, Sean, I gotta say, I, when I first saw that you were learning piano, I thought that was the coolest thing I had ever heard about you. So I think there's something— no, genuinely, like, that's not to dismiss any of the other stuff, but I was just like, you know, when you're a creator online, as we talked about earlier, people make these assumptions about you. They kind of sometimes dictate what is in your orbit. And for you to be like, no, no, no, this is, this is something I want to learn. I might not even be sure exactly why, but I'm going to go do it. It's not what people expect. And then to do what you just did, like, I actually think that is so cool.

Yeah, I commented on this podcast. I was like, you know, all this business stuff is great, but the piano thing, it's for some reason oddly inspiring.

Well, the funny thing is, like, in the moment it never feels that way, right? Because like, I'm walking out of my piano teacher's class. There's only— it's like, all right, Brandon, good luck, buddy. You know, there's only 7-year-olds there. You know, their parents are there. They're looking around like, where's your kid? I'm like, no, no, it was me. Like, I was the one getting the lesson, the piano lesson. And it was just like kind of an odd thing to be doing, you know, pretty regularly. But, you know, again, trusted my gut, went with it, just like leaned into it. You know, it was like, all right, I'm having fun. So what? I'm not forcing myself to do something I don't want to do. Why does everything have to be like with an agenda? And, you know, this kind of like validated, like, Yeah, just keep doing that. Good things do happen when you— as you keep doing that, don't worry. Like, you'll also get the rewards you seek in life even when you're doing the stuff that seems like it has, you know, no rewards. You're just doing it because you like it.

Next podcast, I want to know all, all of what it was about hanging out with him.

Yeah, will do.

What about you, Sam?

But my coolest moment, I was in between two— I did a big trip to Africa, and if you haven't done gorilla trekking, it is one of the most incredible things. I've ever done.

Gorilla trekking? What did you say?

Trekking. Yes. Yeah. Trekking, tracking. You do both, basically.

Are you tracking down a gorilla or are you doing something? Well, you're trekking.

There's families of gorillas that live. We did it in Rwanda. They have it in Uganda. Not many countries other than that. And they're wild. So yeah, they live in the wild and they move every night. So they have these trackers who go out every day and try to locate them. And then you trek through the rainforest, truly. Like, there's mud up to your knees. At points and try to find them.

Which, which place?

In Rwanda. Um, but super cool experience. But my actual answer is going to see the World Series with my dad. He's been a Blue Jays fan since I— before I was born. Um, the last time they won the World Series was in '93. They had a double year, '92-'93, and then I was born and ruined it all. And so he, he kind of makes fun of me for that every year and is like, also the person who goes and is like, is their year, is their year. They made these trades, watches every game, you know, 160 plus. And he's also where I get every ounce of my cheapness from. And so he would never ever buy tickets for himself. And so, um, yeah, her, you know, once they hit the World Series, I flew home, bought him tickets for game 6 when they had their first chance to win, didn't win, then YOLO'd it for game 7. Totally worth it. Like, can't really think of a better way.

Oh, you did two in a row.

That's awesome.

Yeah, I mean, I wish they had won either of them.

Yeah, so close.

Because they lost. But, um, yeah.

That's amazing. That's a, that's a, that's a great thing to do. That's a really great thing to do. I could see why all NBA players, like, their first thing is like, I bought my mama a house. It's like, I think there's probably like very few things you could do that will like, you know, feel as good as like taking your dad or your mom to like, to do something that, that they would love to do, they'd never do for themselves.

Yeah.

And like, you know, get to do that with them when you're a grownup.

Do you guys want to combine frame-breaking person and favorite guest?

Okay. What you got?

So, well, do you have a favorite guest?

Well, let's explain what frame-breaking is. Okay. So me and Sam use this term a lot. Frame-breaking. Everybody walks around with some frame. A frame is like a border, right? And everything that's inside the border is what you sort of— I'm used to that. I've seen that. I expect that. That's what's in the picture. That's how wide my lens goes. And then occasionally you'll meet these people who will just completely break your frame. And it's like, oh, I didn't— like, it's like, imagine a painting where somebody just starts drawing past the frame onto the wall.

You're like, what?

You can't go out there. And so this is maybe somebody with, like, extreme ambition, or they live life to the fullest in this way that you don't really do, or they're really, you know, really intentional about their time. Or, you know, there's these things that people do that you thought you knew what level 10 looked like in that category. And then you realize, oh, what I thought was a 10 is a 7, and now I know what a 10 looks like. I actually like— somebody's broken my frame. They've turned the volume knob up further than I thought it could go in that aspect of their life. So that's the setup. Who was your frame-breaking person?

So there's this Aristotle quote that I've been thinking about for like a year now. I think last, last time when we did this, I was saying I was trying to use my phone less. And there's Aristotle quote. It says, excellence is never an accident. It's always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution. And the reason I think about that all the time is because I don't know about you guys, but like if I'm on a Zoom meeting, I'm probably browsing the internet. If I'm watching TV, I probably have my phone up and I'm doing something. Like there's this constant pattern of interruption and never focusing on something. And it's kind of been tearing me apart. It's kind of making me gone mad. And so I've been working so hard on being intentional about my attention and focusing on excellence. But in a very few amount of things. So just picking a couple of things and being great. And we had this guy— I don't think you were here, Sam, but we had this guy named Will Guidara who wrote this book called Unreasonable Hospitality. And the story is, if you guys have seen The Bear, it's one of the inspirations for The Bear, the TV show. But basically the story is that he owned this very famous restaurant in New York called Eleven Madison, and they are famous for going above and beyond. For example, someone was—

Wasn't it the top-rated restaurant in the country or what's like the claim to fame?

It was the top-rated restaurant in the country, in part because the the food was, was special. It was a Michelin-starred place, so it was like fancy. But the other part was that they were known for being unreasonably hospitable. So I'll give you an example. They had this couple or family from Europe come to the restaurant that they had planned for months to attend. And Will, or a waiter, overheard them say, we're leaving tomorrow. But the one thing we didn't get to experience was a New York street hot dog. And so Will has this guy at his company who they call them the Dreamweaver, and his only job was to make dreams come true to their customers. And so this guy ran outside and he bought a street hot dog or a couple of them, and they chopped them up and put like a cute garnish on it. So it sort of looked like it was a fancy restaurant food, but it was actually a street hot dog. And they said, right, we heard you talk about you wanting a hot dog. Here you go. Your dreams have come, become a reality. And that's rooted in like unreasonable hospitality. But the reality is it's about being excellent. And he gave this amazing spiel and it's crazy. This did not— I think this hit on Spotify. But it did not hit on YouTube. But this was the best podcast I'd ever recorded based just of what he told me of the idea of— he was like, we are going to go above and beyond and we are going to be excellent. And I found that to be kind of overfilling my cup, not just in the business category, but in life of just pursuing excellence for the sake of just trying to be great at a couple of things. And I found that to be a very inspirational book, and I find him to be a very inspirational person. It kind of broke my frame.

That was awesome. That was an awesome rant and summary of it too. I love that.

Thank you. It was awesome.

That scene in The Bear is the best. They recreated that, that idea in The Bear. Uh, and it was like peak, peak television.

It was the best. And then, um, my favorite guest, sleeper of a guest, Sean Frank. So Sean Frank's this guy who's the CEO of, um, Ridge Wallet, which is a popular wallet company. He, I want to, Guys, this guy's so funny and so interesting, Sean, because he's kind of like you and I, like he can— he's silly and everything, but his silliness is— I think he's actually a very serious person. And I found this blog that he wrote last year. Listen to this. He said, my goal is to sell Ridge for $1 billion in the next 3 years. I have to time it right because we're coming out of a bubble and interest rates are going to go up and then they're going to come back down hopefully by 2025. And then by 2026 or '27, I'm going to sell this company. And I just thought it was hilarious that this guy, like, called his shot like that. And if you listen to the podcast that we had with him, he was a very direct person, and I find that to be incredibly refreshing. So I think Sean Frank was my favorite guest.

He's a great follow on Twitter as well, dude.

He's like a wholesome guy, but he's very blunt, and I find that to be a very cool combination.

Yeah, he's funny.

So that's my favorite guest, my favorite Frame Break people. How about you, Steph?

You want to go next or—

Sure. Have you guys heard of Fiona Oakes? No, who is that frame-breaking person? Okay, so I discovered her because I've gotten into running lately, and I watched this documentary.

Spell her name.

Fiona Oakes. O-A-K-E-S. This documentary was about her. It's called Running for Good: The Fiona Oakes Documentary. Okay, so get this. She has been a vegan since she was 6. She lost her kneecap at age 17 due to an injury and medical complications. Yet she is this crazy marathon woman. She lives some— in some, like, farm area in England. She just runs a crazy number of miles. Doctors to other patients who have lost their kneecaps are like, you can't even walk downhill. She's running these marathons. She has multiple world records. And the craziest part is she does all of this because she just loves animals so much. She didn't grow up running and, like, you know, enter competitions. She wasn't on cross-country. She just one day realized, oh, I'm pretty fast, and then started entering marathons to win money so that she could go fund her farm business and take care of her animals better. So this woman was just like the most frame-breaking, because I'm just like, who is this and how is she running 2:48 marathons? That's like 6:24 minutes per mile. And she just does it. Like, no one knows who she is until, you know, someone discovered her and they're making documentaries about her. But she just— just the craziest combination of things. And she's just like, she's a world record holder.

She ran marathons before she lost her kneecap also, or she started this hobby after?

I don't know how much running she was doing before the kneecap, but all of the records, all of the—

She lost her knee at the age of 16.

Post— yeah, post-kneecap.

And she's 56 now and she's doing this shit. It's pretty wild.

Yeah, it's crazy. The, the documentary is funny too because they start out and they don't share any of her times. They're kind of hyping her up and you see her, she looks kind of old, and you're like, okay, sure, you know, like she might be fast for a 50-year-old, but she's not— no way she can be that fast. And then you actually look up her times and you're like, holy shit, this woman is a legend.

I don't know how these guys run so much. The more I run, the more hurt I get.

Like, she doesn't have the kneecap. That's the trick. Are you not down? Are you not willing?

Dude, remember that guy with the fake legs who ran the 400 meter in the Olympics? Yes. Oscar Pistorius.

Is that legal?

Yeah, Oscar Pistorius.

He also went to jail for killing his girlfriend.

Yeah, he killed his wife. Yeah. I always thought that was nonsense. Why do these guys—

He broke a frame or two.

Well, yeah. Like, why do they get to be in the Olympics? Like, they don't have any— He was in the normal Olympics? Yes.

He was in the normal Olympics, which is nonsense.

He doesn't have any legs that can get full of lactic acid. They're like metal legs. Like, why does he get to go? Like, you know what I mean? It seems ridiculous.

That is ridiculous.

It's ridiculous.

I'm enraged.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. Fiona Oakes, what's the documentary called?

It is called Running for Good: The Fiona Oakes Documentary. Really crazy.

Did you have a favorite guest also, or do you want to just use her for both?

No, I've got a favorite guest. You mentioned him before, so maybe he's your favorite guest. He's, uh, recent. John Morgan. I listened to a bunch of the episodes, and there were people, like, there was the Exploding Kittens guy, there was Eric Ryan, there was Sheil, like all of those people I went into the episode expecting to like. I went into this episode expecting to not like John Morgan. And he just was incredible. The number of businesses that he's gone into, whether it's his attraction stuff, apartments, ad agency, tech company, is insane. But it was his one-liners that I was just like, dude, this guy simplifies the— all of this like shit that us tech company people overcomplicate into just the best lines. He's like, I don't hunt deer, I hunt money. When he's talking about his URL, he's like, I went for, um, people.

Justice for all.

Yeah, he was like, basically, I was worried people couldn't spell justice, so, um, yeah, he went with for the people. Um, he also like had this line where he's like, I'm good at sharing the profits. And I was like, you know what, there's actually something to that. Like, so many people are so bad at spreading the wealth, and he's just like, look, I treat my people good, you know, I share the profits. Um, so he got on— crazy number.

He got on, and Sean and I, I think— I don't know who booked him, but we didn't know. I don't think we entirely knew what we were getting into because he's— now he's on this tour, but, uh, like, there wasn't a lot of information about him, and we— I don't think we knew what we were getting into. I know I was going into it like, uh, we'll see. The first sentence, he goes, I got these attractions, this upside-down museum. And he goes, and let me tell you, it prints money.

Like, no, he didn't say money, print.

Yeah, he goes, it prints. He said the F-word so hard, and we don't say the F-word really on this show. And we both, like, eyes went open, and we were like, Buckle up, baby. We are going on a roller coaster. This was something. And there was 20 lines. And I showed it to my dad because Morgan Morgan, I think, is— they have an office in Missouri. So that's where the commercials— and he was like, you can't air this. This is going to ruin this guy's reputation. And I was like, I don't know, man. I think he knows what he was doing because he— I showed him. I go, he said the F-word literally 15 times. Another time he goes, do you know why we win? Our competitors, they're lawyers. They're shit. And like, and then he goes, and then he goes, and then when we win, we go into a case and they don't want to settle. But 6 weeks in, they see how serious they are and they want to settle. And I go, fuck you. And, and I take them for everything they're worth.

Like, he's like, he was a very vulgar guy, but like, if I was like a Netflix showrunner, I'd just be like, I need to follow him around because I'm going to build like, you know, Ari Gold-like characters around, you know, this guy's personality and the way he rolls. And we go, why are you even— we said, why are you doing doing this?

He goes, because it's good for business.

Yeah, I also love that he's not— I mean, he built a tech company, but he's not in our tech world. So he'd be like, I was on the Business Insider, or he'd be like, Sean, have you— are you aware of this thing called first principles thinking? And I was like, this guy's a G.

He said my whole thesis in Silicon Valley was what would Google do?

Yeah.

So that was awesome. Sean, what about yours?

Yeah, he, I mean, he was amazing. Uh, also I would say one other thing about him, which is I had this opinion, I don't know from where it came from, but just my default, never even thought about it again, was personal injury lawyers, sleazy ambulance chaser, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, wait a minute. So what's his actual story? His brother gets basically paralyzed on the job. Has poor representation. He gets mad about that, decides, I'm going to go to law school, become a personal injury lawyer to fight for, you know, fight for that. And it's like, wait, yes, it's basically people who are, you know, it's— you're fighting for the common man against large corporations for the most part. And it's like, I wonder why this isn't seen as a more— as a more noble profession. Like, obviously there's aspects to it. I get why it gets that bad rep, but like, I don't know, I think it's— I think it's over— I think the public opinion is far overrated on, uh, on negativity towards, towards this profession in this way.

I totally agree, man. Have you ever, like, known someone who got hurt at work and you're like, this is a travesty. These insurance companies should be paying you this much more. Like, there's nothing you could do, you know? Have you ever, like, tried— have you ever, like, got in a car? I've been in, like, a car. Like, my car got messed up and I was like, this car is worth way more than you guys are telling me, but I just got to take it. Now imagine if this was like your mom who got hurt.

Exactly. Yeah. I think most of his cases are against companies like insurance companies, right? So it's, it's a little weird that they have the reputation. All right. I have a frame-breaking person that you guys probably don't know. Her name is Kristen Berman. And Kristen is somebody I met at an event I went to. One of— that's why I lied. I did go to one event this year. I went to the Dialogue conference and honestly didn't love the conference overall. But there was one conversation I thought was really great. And it was this conversation where Kristen was there. She partners with Dan Ariely. So if you've ever read the book Predictably Irrational, he's like one of the famous behavioral economists in the world.

Like, she runs— like business partners or like married?

They run Irrational Labs, which I think is like a consulting— so companies come to them and, you know, like Panda Express will come to them and be like, hey, we want to provide healthy options, but like, how do we frame this in a way that will be like, you know, people make the choices that they want? Or how do we get people to choose to insulate? How do we get people to choose to insulate their water heater? Because it's good for the environment, it'll save them money, but we can't seem to get them to do it. What, what are ways we could do that? So they'll go to them and try to say, you guys understand how people's consumer's brains works. What are ways to do this? So anyway, she's telling this story, and the reason it's a frame-breaking story is she made some money. So let's just— I don't know, I'll just make up some numbers, but she made a couple million bucks, let's say. And at the time, her and her husband, and I think maybe kid, but her and her husband were living in, let's call it, a 2-bedroom, like a 2-bed apartment. And what everybody I know does is you make money and then you upgrade your lifestyle. So you go from a 2-bed to a 3-bed to a 4-bed to a 5-bed, whatever. and then soon you're at the— Sam, you talked about like a 17,000 square foot mansion. And you know, the, the more you keep going, and that's how they use their money to improve their life. She being a behavioral economist had a very different perspective. And it was not out of like trying to be a good person or do something different. She was just like, well, this is what the data tells us matters. And so she was like, uh, what she did was she kept the same apartment she was in, but she bought the 3 or 4 units right around her and created a, basically a compound. And then invited people who they really liked. So, you know, people that they basically built their own little microcommunity. So it's like, who would be an amazing neighbor?

Like, they rented it— she rented it out to them for below market rent.

And she's like, you know, I just, you know, it didn't even matter. We're not trying to make a rental property and get this cash flow. I'm not trying to upgrade my own lifestyle, live in this baller place. No. Like, basically the data says that, like, the people you have around you, your close-knit community is the number one thing that will improve your happiness. So we did that. So we bought these other units. We now have people, you know, like kind of like who are friends or friends adjacent, like apply to come in. We're really rigorous about who gets in. And then when they're in, you know, they're a part of our life, you know, like we see them all the time and it's been amazing. And she wasn't even really like preaching about this, but I was kind of like, wait a minute, like this is— I like— that sounds simple. Sounds simple to do. I don't know anyone who's done that. Like, do you know anybody? We know a lot of rich people. Do you know anybody who's actually done that?

Well, I kind of did that. Me and Neville bought homes together.

Bro, you moved away.

I had— yeah, I moved away.

The opposite of doing that.

I moved away to be closer to family. But I will say we were intentional about it and it was freaking awesome.

Yeah, you might be the only person I know who's also kind of like been like, I'm going to live on the same block as this person. And that's more important than getting the bathrooms with the marble and the way we want, you know, how most people I think pick and choose what they're going to do. In fact, most people I know who make money, they isolate themselves. They move into more private communities, bigger and bigger places with bigger and bigger lots. And they basically like create a pocket of loneliness because maybe their family, they can't afford to live right next to them, right? Or their friends aren't also in the same, you know, either category or looking to move at the same time. And they move into a place where other people are used to not talking to each other and they— it's like isolationist. So I just thought this was amazing. It kind of broke my frame. It was very inspiring because as much as I'm inspired learn how to make money. I think Morgan Housel said it best, like, you can either use money in one of two ways. Number one, as a tool to improve your life, or number two, as a measuring stick to measure your, your self-worth. And I, you know, it's so easy to get caught in the money as a measuring stick thing, but money as a tool to improve your life, that means you got to learn how to spend it just as much as you got to learn how to make it. And so he's, you know, this, this was an example of like how to actually spend money to improve the quality of your life.

We should have her on. This sounds great.

Yeah, we totally should. She was awesome.

That's cool. That's a great one. I'd never heard of this, this person. That sounds badass. Does she have a book or anything? Or is her— or Dan is like—

Predictably Irrational was kind of like part of their thing. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know too much. But yeah, let's have her on. She's going to be great.

And what's your favorite guest?

Favorite guest was Nick Mowbray. So this is basically the, the closest person to Elon Musk that I've ever met. Closest as in like friends, but like closest, like, oh wow, you're basically like Elon. He just, you know, Elon was born in South Africa. This guy's in New Zealand and he went into the toy industry. And if you haven't heard it, the pod he did, he does very few podcasts. I think when I was doing research, it was like one interview from like 15 years ago. It was the only thing I could find. And, um, it took like 30 emails to get him to come on and he was amazing. Such a good dude. And his story is like, like a movie, um, you know, literally like sleeping in a bush, uh, you know, in China trying to, trying to make it happen. Like, it was just unbelievable. Like the sort of sleeping on the factory floor mentality, the level of grit, living off a dollar a day until they made it. And now, you know, the brothers are the wealthiest men in New Zealand. They're self-made billionaires, own the whole thing. Not only built one of the biggest toy— probably a top top 3 toy company in the world sitting in New Zealand, but also built like, you know, a top 3 diaper company, also built a top shampoo company. Like, this guy is insane. Like, you know, he was saying how when he, he got like, uh, you know, that living off a dollar a day in China eating McDonald's, you know, like kind of off the dollar menu type of thing, got, you know, caught up to him and he had to like get his like small intestine removed or something. And he's like, you know, when I was in recovery sitting in the like hospital, I decided, like, I was watching TikTok and I decided, like, I'm going to build one of the biggest brands on TikTok. And he built, like, the biggest diaper brand as a side quest using TikTok. And I'm like, this guy is an animal to the point where after the pod, I don't think we caught this on the pod, but he said something like, I asked him, I was like, dude, you're like Elon. Have you ever met Elon? He's like, no, I've never met. I would, I would love to have met him. He's like, you know, at one point, me and my brother, we were the largest shareholders in the world of Tesla stock. He's like, I'm a big fan. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, I think we owned, I think they own like, I forgot, he said 1% or 4% of Tesla, just personally they owned it. And he's like, yeah, we, you know, but then when COVID hit and like the world stopped and the factories had to shut down, we didn't know we were at such a huge position. We, you know, we reduced during that time. He's like, huge mistake. We left like $15 billion on the table by not holding for the next 5 years. And he's like, um, but to the point where his brother, like, flew to California and installed cameras on buildings that had an angle at the Fremont factory because they were like, this is such a huge position, we should monitor the factory production. And I was like, this is the most high-agency person I've ever met in my life. I was very, very inspired by Nick Mowbray.

It says on Wikipedia that they're both— they're worth collectively $20 billion. I didn't realize— I thought that he was a billionaire, like $1 billion. That's incredible.

No. And now they're like 3D printing houses. Like it's, it's crazy. They're, they're doing crazy, crazy, crazy stuff.

And the base is just the toy company. Like that was the foundational of the wealth.

Yeah.

That is so insane. When you hear these people who have side quests that are like orders of magnitude bigger and better than anything you've ever built.

Yeah.

It's, it's wow. Wow.

That was awesome. You, um, I knew the story, but I didn't realize how successful they were. That's really amazing. Okay, we probably only have a couple more that we're going to do. Do you want to do—

which one do you want to do? Biggest change you're making and then the meme of the year, maybe?

Well, yeah. What's yours? What's your biggest change?

All right. So after hanging out with Jesse, I was like, what's my new misogi going to be? And we were both talking about— he was— he's written a lot of books, but he was like, dude, honestly, he's like, I feel bad. He's like, I don't read that many books. He's like, I don't even read 5 books in a year. He's like, I can't believe it. Something I really feel like I should change. And I was thinking about this. I've thought about it very similarly. And I was like, you know what? All right. And so I was like, took my phone and I just deleted X, deleted Twitter, deleted YouTube, deleted Reddit. And I was basically like, I think I can give myself back 10 to 15 hours a week of time and mind space. And I'm just going to not consume any social this year. I'm just going to get off social completely. I'll still post. I'll have my team like post stuff like I can create for social. I just can't consume. And I'm going to— I call this the Luka Dončić trade. It's like, what if I could get the best thing back, you know, which would be like reading some of the best books of all time, and I'll give up some crappy assets, you know, I'll give up, you know, some, some problem-riddled assets like, you know, all the, all these different social media apps. And so that's my trade I'm making. Uh, for this year.

Damn. How, when did you make the change? Delete the apps?

On the flight back.

So how many days ago? I was like, I was like, how's it going so far?

Too early. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

I started early.

It's not like I do, I used to use social media just like you guys yesterday. I know exactly how you feel.

Oh, I can't wait to look down upon people who use social media. Imagine how self-righteous I can be.

That's a great move. I used last year, I used The Brick for it, or I think it's called Brick or The Brick. It was really helpful. And I don't actually don't have social media on my phone, but I do use it on my computer. So which is not good either. But that's a good move. Yeah.

You already do this. You read like 25 books a year and I think you're very like—

I read a lot of books lately.

Breaking your phone, putting your phone in a box. I think you're very self-actualized in that, whereas I'm still like like the, the mouse or the rat, like, pushing the pedal trying to get a pellet of cocaine out of the thing, you know?

Having a second kid has reduced my reading to, like, close to nothing because, like, I get up extra early and I go to bed and I'm like, that makes me feel better. I have to go to sleep. No, so I haven't read a full book in months. Um, it's all like, I'll get through something and I'm like, it's taken me a month to read this thing because I, I, like, I basically have to get up at 6 and I'm like, at 10 I have to go to sleep, I'm so exhausted. So yeah, having kids basically ruined— a second kid has ruined my reading. The— what do we do in habit or change?

Change for next year. I—

you're not going to see this, Sean, but lately I've been going a lot harder on Instagram and Hampton is going to be— we have this like YouTube channel called MoneyWise and we're going to rebrand it and call it Hampton. And we just rented a new office down the street from my current office and it has seats for 60 people and a big studio. So I'll be recording this from that new studio and we're going to be creating a new YouTube channel. I'm going to be doing a lot more Instagram content. And I feel like the other day I did a video and I was like recording and I'm like, so I talk about this on my page and I'm like, oh my God, that's like such like a boomer. I can't believe I just said that. But I'm going to be going a lot harder on content and it's going to start with me writing.

Are you doing this to grow Hampton or are you doing this because you're like, I want to be influential or I love creating content? What's, what's the, what's the true why on this one?

Well, I started my career because I enjoyed creating content, and then when it became a little bit of a job, I disliked it as much. And so I put it away for a while and then I was like, look, the best way to grow my company is just to do this thing. And I started like doing it as a job. And lately I've been doing it and I'm like, I love this. I love writing and figuring this out. And so I've been doing this stuff on Instagram now for only about 3 or 4 weeks and I've got millions of views and I'm like, this is actually a fun little game to figure out and I enjoy like, can I, can I grow Hampton via content that isn't slop? And I've enjoyed that. So that's what I'm— that's my big change this year. Another simple change is I've been doing it the past month to prepare for the new year. I get my workout. My workout is finished at 7 a.m. I'm done by 7 a.m. And I know that again, we're doing like self-righteous stuff here, but I hate getting up early. But I love having gotten up early and it's been a huge difference in just my time.

Yeah. So he had this great quote. He's like, I don't know any loser who wakes up at 5 a.m. to work out. And it's like, it's kind of true, right? Like, have you ever met a loser who does that?

No. Like being at the gym at 6 a.m. and done at 7 a.m., you're like, it feels amazing. And it's so hard to do, though.

Do you think you can sustain that one?

Well, I have to because it's my job to my eldest kid. I get her out of bed at 7:30. So if I'm going to exercise, it has to be done by 7 or 7:10. And so I've been doing it now for 30 days. And I think I can say, you know, the secret is very dumb. The secret is you have to go to bed at 10. If you're in bed by 10, this is easy. That's, that's challenging to do, but you have to be in bed by 10. Right.

Every time I wake up at 5 AM, I'm like, this is amazing. I get so much done. Like, why don't I do this every day? And then, you know, a year later. It happens again. Um, my biggest change is maybe kids. We'll see. Um, I'm feeling nervous about it. Do you guys—

is this an announcement? Are you announcing it?

No, no, no, no, no. Sam, are you gonna ask me if I'm—

are you pregnant, Steph?

No, to be clear, I am not currently pregnant. We have not started trying, but it's on the radar.

Do you want us to give you, um, tips? Like tips? Like how to be— how to be a pregnant woman?

No, not tips. More like What, what, what do you feel great about with kids? What makes you like— I don't know, I think there's a lot of— especially when you're a woman, you have to like actually, you know, grow the kid, and then you have to like provide for the kid for the first few years in ways that men don't. It's a little daunting, but I love hearing from both men and women like the best parts of having kids because I feel like I don't hear those.

Sean, how do you talk about this without saying the most cheesy, like Advice.

That's the problem. It's every cliché, everything you've already heard, but it's actually true. So that's why it's hard to, you know, it's like you feel lame even saying it because it's so, and it's so obvious to you when you're in it that like, you know, like whatever I thought life was before this was just like, you know, pregame material for, for the real game. And that's, that's kind of how it feels in many ways, like level of intensity, level of like, you know, like love, like all like a sense of purpose. Like, but I would say like the good thing about little kids, me and Sam both have little kids. Sam's are a little younger than mine, so he might not even be fully in this phase yet.

Yeah, but like my eldest is 2.

By the time your kids are kind of like 3, 4, they're talking, they're walking, they're like, they have a personality. Like, they're— it's a whole deal. And, um, they're just like a little joy machine. So imagine having like a jukebox in your house, and every time you go, you push the button and like your mood lifts. And the reason why is because kids are experiencing everything for the first time. So you get to experience everything for the first time with them being the excuse for you to like actually indulge it and actually care and be like your own version of like a little kid. And then there's also like these incredibly satisfying moments because it's like they are, you know, like whatever you feel about like building a company or building a product, the truth is like the ultimate product is this little kid you made and you get to shape it and you get to see it grow and you get to see like all the amazing things happen. So take any of the feelings you've had out of like entrepreneurship or creativity or creating and now like add some like 3,000 years of biological, you know, hardwiring to love all those aspects, you know, at a much higher level.

At this stage, when I see like Instagram stuff of like the dad coming home from the military and hugging the kid or whatever, like things like that, I cry. I get so like emotional by it. I was— I hold my— I put my eldest to bed at night and like, she lays on my stomach and I'm like, this is, you know, like, you ever think about like when your parents die, like how, like if they go to heaven or if like you like think about them, like what age will you remember them? And I, with my little girl every night, I'm like, this is perfect. I will remember this for forever. And it's so important to be present because this is— I was like, when I feel her stomach on my chest, I'm like, this is peak happiness. I have never felt this good and I get to experience it every single day. And it's very special. I think that for a lot of men, you don't love your kid right away and it takes a little warming up to. And I'm at the phase of my life now where I'm like, I like, I say this as a joke, but it's sort of real where I was like, when I got married, I felt like I'll kill someone to protect you. And then when I had a kid, it was like, I will die for you. And that's a very like weird way to think of it. But it is so fun to be like, or not, I don't know, fun. It feels so great to just know I'm willing to dedicate everything I can to this thing. And it feels really good to feel that way.

And the downside and the upside are both the same. The downside is like, oh my God, this is a lot of work and I don't have control over my time or my schedule the way I used to. And for people like us who are like, wow, there's always more projects I want to do and things I want to learn and stuff I want to go do. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, I can't, I don't get to, you know, like I don't get to do that. It's not my schedule anymore. That's the worst part of it for me at least. Uh, like unless like there's like a health issue or whatever, like that's the worst part of it on just like normal life. But also the best part of it is like, it's not about you anymore. It's like, actually all the problems in your life, all the bad feelings you had was like over, like just an over-importance of the self. And so the thing with kids that's great is like, it's about them now. And so you get like the highs from that, but you don't really get the same amount of lows because, um, you don't have that sort of self-rumination, self-indulgence of like all the little things that bother you in your world because it's really not about you anymore, you know?

Totally. Yeah, I had a friend who had a kid recently and I visited her and she was just like, your emotional spectrum is just stretched, but in the most beautiful ways because you just, yeah, you're responsible for this being. When she was like walking out with her kids for the first time, she was like, I've never felt more stressed because I just saw all the things that could, you know, maybe harm my child. But at the same time, like you're saying, it's more of like a, it's like a new set of emotions. It's maybe not as self-centered. It's just like a more interesting aspect of life that like if you don't have kids, you're never going to get to experience, is my sense. I haven't had them, but like that's—

I find that a good way of putting it. Like, oh, there's like 3 new colors you didn't know about. You know, there's like this whole other thing you get to see.

And I hate saying that. I agree with you. I hate saying that because when people don't have children, it's like it's not a reversible decision. So I don't ever want to make someone feel bad. And, you know, so I don't love talking about that. But I do feel like it's sort of like the first time I've ever felt like my purpose in life is being fulfilled. Like, you think that way about work sometimes. And then we had it. And I hate being high and mighty and shit, but you like have a kid and you're like, oh, this is like, this is the like, because this is why I've tried to impress a girl and be so she would like me and then I could reproduce with her. And now I have this thing and it's like I am now connected to the 20, 50 billion people before me. And it feels kind of special. It feels very strange, but it's special.

Yeah, it is hard to talk about because it's just— you feel, you feel lame and cheesy and you don't want to— like, it's just your personal experience. You don't want to influence others. But like, when you ask, you're like, oh, like, I think I won. I'm kind of on the fence. I want to hear about it. Then like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Permission to be— permission to cheese. Well, we'll end on a light note. We have favorite tweet slash meme of the year. What do you have? Let's start with Steph.

Guys, mine is boring, but I just loved the May I Meet You meme. It was so good. It was so good. Like, what is this activist investor doing giving dating advice? And just the, just the versatility.

You as a woman who's also in business and tech, you get on Twitter, you see this happening. What was going through your mind?

I thought it was truly hilarious because I think Also, I don't know, like as a woman, there's so many times when like men think that they know what women want. And like, I'm sure Bill Ackman is a catch. Like, I'm sure he's also like 6-plus feet, right? Like he's got a bunch of money and like, you know, he's going up to these women saying like, may I meet you? And he's gathering that that is what is, you know, the defining action that the women are, are liking.

Steph, so you saw that advice. What would your advice have been? If Bill Ackman— he meant well, right? He was like, I heard that it's tough out there for young guys. Here's a little bit of advice. If May I Meet You was wrong, what's the right advice?

I feel like— well, I mean, he's right that you just gotta approach a girl, right? Because girls like confidence. But I also think girls like humor and like you knowing you being authentic. And so even just going up to a girl and just being like, hey, like, I'm really nervous, but like, I gotta talk to you. This is like not the best pickup line, but I just feel like you just walking up to a girl is like what probably 9 out of 10 guys will not do. If you happen to say, may I meet you, it's probably fine, but I don't know, just be, be natural.

I forgot what it is, but Lil Dicky has one that I— that's great. I wish I I wish I had this back when I was single. It would have helped me. But he's like, he's like, oh, I have the perfect pickup line. He would go up to a woman and he'd be like, what's your, what's your availability as far as being hit on right now? He's like, she would laugh and she would know my intentions. And then like, I gave her it out and I gave her it in. And I like, you know, he's like, he's like, it works every time.

Do you remember when you guys, Sean, or whoever was screen sharing, I just sent an example of one, but the best content on social that I'm following this year. Do you remember, Sean, when we talked about cinematic content? I think we talked about Creator Camp. Is that what we talked about?

Yeah.

So like, here's just one example of a podcast, but I can— well, I'll send you a few more examples, but that's just one example of a podcast. Who is this? Mark Brazil? Have you guys— have you seen this guy's podcast?

I've seen— I've seen this because it stands out, right? In the feed.

Oh my God, it stands out.

It's like hostage negotiation situation.

And so we've talked about cinematic content. So we talked about this company called Creative Camp. And I'm noticing that like, if you guys follow like these there's a bunch of 22, 23, 24, 25-year-old kids making like content that is not just like the talking head videos. And it's beautiful and it's starting to transfer over into like podcasting, which is, you know, normally they don't do this. And like Chris Williamson has done this with his sets for Matthew McConaughey. And I'm noticing that this type of cinematic content where it's like a beautiful background and it's not just, I don't know, your phone, It's way more popular and I love it. I love this stuff. I'm loving internet content at the moment because of this trend.

So not a trend or a meme.

You said—

yeah, you're right, you did say meme of the year, but I think it's cool and you're right, dude.

I don't know, do you pay attention to memes? I don't pay attention to memes.

Anything's a meme these days, guys.

But it's always like a meme, it's not like a long-lasting thing. It's just like whatever was like the Drake video, like Drake video or like all the trends on Instagram that like, yeah, it's cool for a week and I love it. And then it's like, move on.

I'll give you, uh, I'll give you two. The first one, I'll give you a funny one first. All right. Can you put that, put it by a funny one? Uh, this one's just, it wasn't the most funny thing, but I gotta say it's affected every day of my life. So the tweet is a reminder that tapping your credit card is a spiritually passive and feminine behavior that men should pay via confident and penetrative thrust into the chip reader. And I read this, I laughed, and now every time I pay for something, I can't help but think about this. And I've been thrusting, my friends. I've been thrusting.

You gotta walk around with that wad of cash. That's the most manly thing you can do.

Oh, that would be John Morgan.

You do need a wad.

That would be John Morgan right there.

You know what I mean? Well, I haven't—

pulling out a wad, give a finger lick before I start unfolding some bills, dude.

So that's how you pick up girls, just count your bills. Just in the corner.

My father-in-law did that. He had like a— he had $1,000 in 20s and it was in a— and one time he had it in a rubber band and I was like, I'm in. So like when I bring a wallet, I definitely like to have $500 or $1,000 of like tens and 20s that it just looks weird in the pocket though. They know.

They know something.

They know.

And then I have a wholesome tweet, and this is from, uh, Jay Yang, young, young guy, Jay Yang, who said something very wise.

Um, is that the you could just do things guy?

He's the you could just do things guy. And he said, here's the hill I'm willing to die on. He says, real success is how many people thank you for theirs. And I thought, wow, that was actually really profound. And I think I'm going to steal that as like, what's the point of all this kind of like, what is the North Star as far as success goes? And I was like, I think that's the best metric.

Can I say something that I've noticed, Sean, with you and me is— and I'm wondering if this is true for everyone or a lot of people. So inspirational, motivational, cheesy content. There's like— I don't know what—

so back—

it's— I don't know if it's called a bell curve. It's like an upside-down bell. Well, where you're in the middle of— yes, you're in the middle of your— or you're in the beginning of your career and you use it like crazy. So I read so many self-help books and I would listen to Tony Robbins audiobooks constantly. Then you start getting in the thick of it and you're like, I just got to get this thing done. I got to spend 5 or 10 years doing it. Then you get past that and you're a little bit on Maslow's highest hierarchy of needs. And it's so back. I listen to so many like Jordan Peterson or Alex Hormozi like compilation clips where it's just like yelling at me or like reading inspirational stuff. Are you guys doing that same thing right now?

Love me a good quote. Love me a good little like, I don't know, give me some italics. I need some italics in my life. You know, that's how I feel. I love a good quote. I've actually realized that most smart people, like, look down upon classic quotes or clichés or motivation or inspiration. Good. More for me. More for me. I'm all in on that. That is the index funds of content for me. Put me in. I want it all.

Same. I'm on board with that.

You guys are into Live, Laugh, Love.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I was going to say that this is the Live, Laugh, Love version. But you know what, Steph? There's a reason why millions of basic Oklahoma and Missouri women have this on their walls.

Oh, I know, I know. I'm just 2 years away. I see it coming.

Yeah.

Are you, Steph, are you like, I don't like fortune cookie stuff right now? You're like, I want—

Yeah, I spent years reading personal development books and now I'm at that point where I'm like, I know it all. I read a new personal development book, I've seen it before. But I know, I hear what you're saying. In a few years it's going to come back and I'm going to be like, these people were so wise.

Look, Steph, I'm going to be— I'm going to be patronizing to you. You're young. You'll figure it out. You'll get there.

I remember when I felt that way.

Yeah.

2 years older than me, something like that.

You'll get there. You'll understand once you have a few kids, Steph.

How old are you now, Steph?

And then when you have one kid, when you have one kid, we're going to say, wait till you have two. Wait till you have two.

That's the most patronizing thing.

Wait, Sean, you've got—

Oh, that's easy. Well, somebody's in like in the deep.

Sean's got a gaggle.

I got 3.

You going for more?

So I get to do it to Sam. Sam's got 2, so I'm like, oh, 2?

I don't have—

Oh, so you're on vacation, huh? Oh, that must be nice.

I'm not going to blow up her spot. I'll let you decide, Sean. But Sean's wife on Instagram is a great follow right now. She does some wild Elf on the Shelf stuff and it is a great find. Me and Sarah will like be like, look at what she did today. It's incredible.

We went to like a kid's school performance today and this mom came over to her and she was like, I just got to say, I live for your story right now. She's like, every day I'm checking when is she going to post it? She's like, I'm not going to do any of that stuff, but I love that you do it. And I was like, oh God, you never want to be in that position.

The other day she took a huge wall, like imagine a one-bedroom wall and using Post-it notes. I think they're Post-it notes. She outlined the Grinch. So imagine the Grinch's face, but the art is like Post-it notes.

That is so sick.

It was like a Monet.

It's still up. We're not taking that down.

I don't think you can. That looks like, like, I, like, she must have like used string to like put the, like, make like the, the grid, right? Like, it looks like a pretty like intense project.

It was hilarious because it was the only one of the season I did with her because it was like such a big one to do. And, um, we needed some like bonding time. And so I was like, okay, let's do this. But she's a perfectionist. And is good, like, good at things. And I'm a good enough is good enough kind of guy. And so it was just an awful experience for both of us to try to do that together because she's trying to, like, create a grid, and if something was off, it's like packing together furniture with your girlfriend.

It's just like, it doesn't end well.

I'm like, they're 4 years old, they're not gonna know. They can't even see this high. Um, so like, it's like, they will never know that there was this, like, 1mm gap. And, uh, You know, she had to fix it.

She must have listened to the Will Godera pod that I did.

That was her inspiration for sure.

She must be a listener.

Uh, wait, I want to hear— you guys, we didn't do best new habit. Did you guys have a good one for that one? I also partially just want to brag.

What is— you're a runner now, Steph. We get it.

This year?

Yes, we missed that one.

You're a runner and you're fast.

Sam's like, we missed it intentionally.

No, I have. I think you've been running really— I assume you're going to say running, right? Because your times are actually incredibly fast.

Yes. I'm like, yes. Now we can finally talk about it.

Go for it.

What am I running all these miles for? No, yeah, my best life hack slash new habit— that was the category— was running. And I just wanted to say that I started running about 14 to 16 months ago, and I've run 2 marathons. And I'm mentioning it because I feel like everyone runs now, but also there's a ton of people that have never done it cuz they, they think it sucks and it's awesome. And I think anyone can like get to the point where they're running marathons, running 3 miles a day. That's how I started. Um, and yeah, I feel pretty good about it.

What was your, uh, wasn't your time like sub-8-minute miles?

Yeah, I just ran my second marathon, uh, 3:30, so just under 8.

That's incredible, Sean. That's fast.

Why?

Yeah, I just said it there.

Just— why do people do this? Why do all of you who are doing this do this? That's how I feel about running marathons.

It is awesome. It is awesome. Like, I like to run. I'm horrible at it. I get more joy out of running than any type of weightlifting or any other exercise. I think that it's less good for you than the other stuff, but it's the most enjoyable when it hits.

It's 'cause you can— I mean, you can do this with weightlifting, but you can measure your progress. So clearly, and you can also progress really quickly, I think, compared to other sports or, or athletics.

It's gonna be one of those things for me. Mustard, pickles, running— things I don't like that other people seem to love. I, I just can't do it.

I don't know, man. 20 minutes into like a 50-minute run, like, you go into like a little bit of a cave, and it is like a special— it is kind of special. It is cool. You should try it.

Here's my pitch. Everyone talks about this running high, Don't chase the running high because it's far away. Think about— do you like walking?

Love walking. Huge.

Right. So the feeling you get when you're walking is not, I can't wait for this to end. It's like, I'm outside, look at this beautiful thing. My body feels good. There is a spectrum, not like a binary difference between walking and running, right? So people talk about them like they're two separate things, but there is some version of running. It might be really slow right now, where you feel like you're walking. And so if you start there, which is not where we're taught to start, and you just run at that pace for a mile a day and then 2 miles a day, and then, you know, do that for a while, you will get to a point where your body, you know, becomes more efficient. And over time you're gonna be running 10-minute miles at that walking feeling pace, and you're gonna love running. I'm telling you.

Okay.

Nice try.

Yeah.

The jury will consider what you said and, and he might be out for a flight. I don't know.

Guilty. All right. That's it. Did you have a habit you wanted to do or no?

No. Waking up early.

All right. Well, Steph, I hope you got that in. That's great. All right, guys.

Peace. God bless America. God bless this podcast. Sean. Good, uh, good year.

Oh, another one in the books, brother.

You guys didn't even catch this.

I can't see. What does it say? I'm on a small screen.

Is it, um, backwards?

It just says, oh no, that's noodles.

That's a wrap.