The Most Ridiculous Ways People Are Making Money

All right, Sam, why are we dressed so festive?

It's Casual Friday, baby.

It's Casual Friday. And the best stuff is always in the group chat. And these are the things that I sent in the group chat that I wouldn't post publicly, but decided, you know what, it's Casual Friday. Let's air them out. All right. Can we do the first one?

The first one. Here it is.

Okay. This is a tweet from Dylan. Dylan says, at long last, any app can be your alarm app. Apple has finally introduced alarm Kit. This is at the, the Apple announcement that happened this week that lets any app have the same privileges as the Clock app. This is long overdue. Dylan, you are absolutely right, dude.

I did not understand this. Is this a joke? No, this is real.

So basically, you know, like Apple gives you certain permissions, right? If you're an app, you can send push notifications, you could use the camera, you could use the GPS, but for a long time, no app could become your alarm app. It couldn't access the same features of an alarm app, which is like, now any app, you don't just have to use the Apple alarm app. Anybody could build an app for alarm. Sounds small.

I don't understand. Yeah, this does sound small. So change my mind. Why is this important?

So think about it this way. There's like 2 billion people with iPhones and, you know, not every app can address all 2 billion people, but an alarm clock can basically address like a billion or two people who actually have The need for an alarm clock. So what happened was 2 weeks ago, or, you know, a week ago, as an app developer, you, that was not a category you could be in. And now it's a category you could be in where there's a billion active users that might want your app. And there's been no creativity and no innovation. So like the App Store has been out for, you know, 15 years now. So a lot of stuff is solved, right? Camera apps are pretty good. Map apps are pretty good with Google Maps and Waze and you know, ridesharing apps. There's all kinds of apps. There's been tons of innovation, but this has been basically artificially blocked.

Wait, really quick. Do you remember the joke of Peter Thiel where he said you wanted flying cars, but you got 190 characters like on Twitter?

This is even— 140.

140. This is an even worse version of that. You wanted flying cars. Now you can make alarm apps.

You wanted AI. Instead, you got a snooze button. By the way, I met the guy who wrote that line for, uh, or I didn't meet him, but I, I, I found out who wrote that line for Peter Thiel. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

You met him? Okay. You, you mistakenly said you met him versus you heard about him.

I met a guy who was like, that's the guy who wrote that. That's Peter's guy. He comes up with those. And that was his job was basically follow Peter around, listen to what he's saying, and then try to like transform his sentiment into something really punchy. And that guy came up with that line, which became the basis for like Founders Fund and like a rally cry.

That's cool. Well, tell him good job.

All right, so check this out. Easy idea. David Goggins, would you like $1 million? Because David Goggins today should pay some kid to make the alarm app. That's basically the David Goggins-skinned alarm app. Like, I want to wake up with David Goggins just saying, wake up, bitch, there's miles to run. And I just want to hear that when I wake up and not like, you know, the default alarm sound for the, for my phone.

Are there, uh, when is this going live? When, when's this alarm kit thing?

So they did the developer preview. That's what WWDC is, right? They tell you what's possible and you can start building with it, but it's not like available yet to customers. But it usually, I think it's just like a couple months. It's like not, not very long.

This is low-hanging fruit, my friend. It's a good idea. It's a good idea.

Yeah. This fruit that might just be on the ground, actually. This might be rotting fruit. I'm not entirely sure. Um, all right.

Next one. Here we go.

By the way, we're totally stealing this gimmick from our boys at TVPN. Shout out to John and Jordy. Part of the brotherhood.

But I gave them a shout out later on. One of my, one of my, uh, photos or tweets is from them, which is pretty funny.

They basically had the, the true innovation in the podcasting industry of printing out the tweets. And, uh, we decided that we too shall now print out tweets. Um, but I've been doing 5-3-2s for a lot longer than those guys, so I think I'm okay.

All right.

Uh, this one comes from Chris Bakke. He says— this is a Chris Bakke banger. He says, in 2022, McKinsey paid $55 million— was paid $55 million to advise Warner Brothers, uh, when they merged with Discovery. They charged them $37 million by advising them to change HBO to HBO Max. Then to Max, then back to HBO Max. And in 2025, they billed them an additional $63 million again to determine that Warner Brothers and Discovery should be separate brands again.

Did you see that McKinsey last week laid off, uh, 15% of their staff because of AI?

Because now, like, AI can do half the job, or what? Is that why?

For sure. Yeah, for sure. This is, this is absolutely insane. What did you say? You're allergic to lack of common sense? This is ridiculous.

This is exactly the sort of lack of common sense I was talking about. This tweet has 70,000 likes, by the way. Um, I don't know if he totally made up these numbers or if these are true, but directionally correct. There were some good reactions to this. Greg, Greg tweeted, don't be the problem, be the solution that creates the problem. That is my takeaway.

Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous. Have you ever had friends that have worked at McKinsey?

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, my buddy Ramin, who I do a bunch of business stuff with, he was a, former McKinsey guy.

They're easy to make fun of because you're like, what does a 23-year-old know about business? But like, I have a friend that worked there and she had some pretty amazing— like, basically a PE firm in her case identified like a bunch of dairy farms that they wanted to like roll up. And so they bought a bunch of them, the PE firm did, and then they hired McKinsey folks to come and figure out how to make it more efficient. And so she literally would go to Iowa every single week for about 6 months and devise interesting things. Like, for example, we're going to change the bucket size that we like use, that the workers use. Like, like really interesting things.

Like, have you seen Landman?

Yes. Yeah.

When like the lawyer shows up on the, like on the oil field and she's like got her high heels like stuck in the mud, basically. That's what I'm imagining. The McKinsey consultants showing up at the, uh, the cattle farm.

It was kind of great. And so like I learned about this whole, this whole experience she had. And there is value that is created from these consultants, even though we like to make fun of them. Have you— did Ramin actually work on anything interesting?

Well, they deserve to be made fun of because they're incredibly smart. They get paid very well. So, you know, that means you're a punching bag, right? That's basically the criteria for like, oh, it's free game, right? It's like what a nerd was in middle school. It's like the opposite traits, right? Like the person you could give a swirly to in, in, in sort of junior high would be like somebody who's sort of weak and powerless. But when you grow up, you can't make fun of the weak and powerless. You only make fun of the powerful. And, um, so yeah, Ramin was like this. Basically, he would tell me things that they would do, and I'm like, oh, that's really smart. I was kind of hoping you guys were a bunch of idiots, but actually that sounds pretty good. But what I did come away with was they have huge brains, but small balls is generally like the person who stays in consulting. And that's like a—

which, by the way, that's the definition of anxiety. Is when you're, uh, the definition of anxiety is when your, uh, brain is a lot bigger than your balls. So that's probably why there's a bunch of anxious consultants running around.

I like how you just, I like how you're just saying something is the definition of when it's absolutely not the definition of. That's hilarious. I'm going to start doing that. Well, well, you know the root word of that and then you just make it up. It's not even the root word. All right, we got a couple more reactions. Our boy Tai Lopez comes in, comes in hot off the top ropes. A good gig. You know, it's, you know, it's a good scam when Tai Lopez is giving you, giving you respect.

Oh, these are all replies to that original one.

Okay.

I didn't even, I wasn't even following that.

Yeah, we're learning.

That's insane. And what about this one?

This is the consulting meme. Consulting. If you're not a part of the solution, there's really good money to be made in prolonging the problem. There's this thing that happens in sports that I've always wanted to be a part of business. So, you know, in the UFC, how they have press conferences where they really talk shit about each other. And I've always felt like, yeah, it's the best part. And, you know, I wish business people would do the same. Like, I wish right now I've gone to—

they're awesome.

You've been to the press conferences?

I've been. One time I tried to sneak in when I ran The Hustle. Like, I would try to, like, get— I couldn't get credit. I was like, let me see if I can get credentialed to this. And they didn't give it to me. And so I showed up anyway and they kicked me out. So I went like, they made me walk to the back and like sit with the crowd and I watched it. Yeah, it was great.

They didn't respect The Hustle as a newsletter, as a media brand.

Dude, The Hustle is the worst name ever when you're trying to hustle someone. Like, I was sure. Do you know what I mean?

It was just like some random security guard and she was like, my name's John Scam. Yeah. Hoping you would tell me your Coinbase password.

It was the worst. Like, the lady like giggled at me and it was like a, it was a pathetic laugh. It was like, so no, I got kicked out. It did not work. But If anyone's listening who works at the UFC, if you and I could get credentialed to go to a UFC event and ask a question, I would do that in a heartbeat and I would take it incredibly seriously.

Arguably too seriously. Might ruin the whole event.

All right. I read a ton. I would say almost a book a week. And the reason I read so much is because my philosophy towards reading is I want to see what works for the winners that I love and what strategies they use. And then I want to see What mistakes, uh, did they all make? What were the common flaws that they all had? And I just wanna avoid that. And so HubSpot asked me to put together a list of the books that have changed my life so far in 2025, and I did that. And so I listed out 7 books that made a meaningful difference in my life, and I explained what the differences that they had on me or what actions I took because of the book. And then also I listed out my very particular ways of reading because I'm pretty strategic about how I read and how I read so much and how I remember what I read and things like that. And so I put this together in a very simple guide. It's 7 books that had a huge impact on my life, and you can scan the QR code below if you wanna read it, or there's a link. You guys know what to do. There's a link in the description. Just go ahead and click it and you'll see the guide that I made. So it's the 7 books that had a massive change in my life this year so far, and then also how I'm able to read so much. So check it out below. All right, what's, what do you have next? Do the Frank Slootman one.

This is actually related to what I was just talking about. So Frank Slootman, who is the, uh, the man's man CEO, he's the David Goggins of the corporate world. Would you agree?

Yeah, I mean, he's pretty baller. Uh, he's, he kind of says it like it is. For people who don't know, he took over, he's been a CEO of a bunch of companies, but he took over at Snowflake and he has all these famous memos that he wrote on LinkedIn and it was basically like, Don't be a bitch, work hard. Like, that's like how he summarizes everything.

Yeah, but it's a little bit different. So he's got this book called Amp It Up, but if you really, you could just read his blog post called Amp It Up and get 80% of the idea. It's not even just about working hard. It's like, pick up the pace, pick up the, there's his basic point is that in every organization, there's an incredible amount of slack that's just built up. It's an expectation of timelines, of rigor, of, of effort, of everything. And then another one of those is common sense. And like, his approach is just to cut through all the bullshit. And so he has this quote where he's like talking about the man in the, you know, that famous like man in the arena quote.

Yeah, it's kind of, I kind of think that, uh, that quote is super lame now. It's been hijacked by people I don't like.

I know. Chamath is what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Was people a singular word? All right, here we go. So here's what Frank Slootman says. He says, there's lots of people in this world who are not really in the arena. They're either observers, consultants, or agents or VCs that just provide capital. But there are some people in the arena, they're very special people. And then he says, he talks about he was asked to speak at a business school where they always ask for his advice. He says, you all have elite educations. You'll have many job offers paying you big bucks. Your parents and siblings will be incredibly proud of you. But they're all consulting jobs for Bain, McKinsey, and companies like that. You're going to have an easy path to pretty quick earnings, but you'll never know whether you have what it takes to actually build something new. In Roosevelt's words, you will be those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. I had actually never read that part of the, of the quote, and I thought that part's way colder than the, than the, the rest of it. You know what I mean?

Imagine saying this to a room full of Stanford kids. It's like, that's— I wonder what that— what do you think the reaction would have been like?

I think the reaction would have been like, God, he's so right. After I finish up this first 4-year tenure at McKinsey, then I'm totally going to do that. I think that's the real, the true reaction. It's like, he's so right. I'm not actually going to rescind the— I'm not actually going to withdraw the job offer. I'm— I'll finish up. I'm going to make sure I get the few years and then I'm going to go do that thing someday.

I've hung out with like my friends' children or, you know, people who are like in the applying to college age right now. It's way different than when we were younger. Like when we were younger, not going to college for a huge majority of people, for anyone that's like a middle class on up, it was like, that wasn't even a question. Now it definitely seems like the smart people are saying, I'm not sure what my, I'm weighing my options. I'm trying to look at all that's available. Have you noticed that?

No. Is that like, and when you say that they're thinking about like trade school or dropping out or everything's on the table?

Yeah.

So for people, are their parents entrepreneurs?

Or are they normal people? The people who I know, it's just like, it's like, let's say cousins and nephews and things like that. And like, they're mostly like well-to-do or at least like have a household income of $200,000. And it's basically like this. And these are smart kids. So typically when we were younger, Sean, the smart kids like always went to college. Now the smart kids are like, I'm not sure, you know, I've been in contact with this company about just going, getting an internship right away, right at 19 years old. Other people who are less of the academic, like they're, they're not like the geniuses. They are considering trade school and it's not nearly looked at like when I was younger. If you said you're going to trade school, it was like, it was like, is that like punishment for getting in trouble? Do you know what I mean?

Oh, you're dumb.

Yeah. Now I think there is a, there is 100% a change in sentiment. Well, that's good. And I wonder, I wonder if like this whole MBAs are dumb. That's a new feeling-ish. That's like Peter Thiel was the one who popularized that, where he said, for your— he goes, the valuation of your company, take $1 million off for every NBA, uh, employee you have. And so now that's popular. And I wonder the NBA people who are there now and who would hear something like this, how they feel, if they acknowledge it or if they don't.

Right. That Peter Thiel quote is like how— that's like my parenting style. I'm like, one more word, one more word, and we're not going to the pool for 2 days. Oh, Oh, 3 days, and I just keep going. I'm just like, if you say one more thing and you lose a little bit more.

Do you stick with it?

There's all kinds of retrades, dude. I'm, I'm Trump. I'm trumping the China deal right now.

Wait, you let your kids trade?

I raise the tariffs, and then there's a temporary pause for extenuating circumstances while we negotiate, and then we have some really good interactions, and then we start thinking, and then they come back again and they do something, you know, they just throw their spaghetti on the floor, and then we're back at 125% tariffs.

What age does punishment work? Because right now when they do something, I say no, it's just like they laugh at me.

They can start to understand like cause and effect or consequences somewhere between 2 and 3 years old. I think you start to get it at a very basic level, but you also have to time it. So like, if the kid is emotionally upset or is feeling something, they're not going to learn the lesson in the moment where they're having the fit. Whereas like, I think as adults we're like, well, this is why, and we're trying to like explain the thing while they're like, you know, having their meltdown. It's like, you have to have, let the meltdown happen. And then if you want to have a teaching moment, it's like, gotta come after, which is probably true for adults too. But it's like very obvious with kids because they're literally melting down.

I got to figure this out because I've, yeah, I've been trying to like punish her, not punish her, but you're like, no, you can't do this.

Right.

And I just get laughed at. Um, all right. Read the next one.

So, uh, this is one of yours. So it's a. David Senra tweet. He says, Charlie Munger told me— flex— Charlie Munger told me to read Les Schwab's autobiography. I'm glad I did because Les says things like this, quote, success in life is being a good husband, a good father, and when— and you end up being a second father to hundreds of other men and women. Last night I attended a wedding of a young man from our office, and the young man told me that two men had influenced his life, his father and me. That's worth more than money.

So this guy, Les Schwab, is amazing. I haven't completed his book, but I'm in the middle of reading it. But let me tell you about this guy. So go to the—

dumb question is, Les— so there's Charles Schwab.

No relation. Okay. He's— he's— he— he was a hillbilly in Oregon, basically. He was like orphaned at the age of like 13 or 14, was like a plumber, and then started a tire shop at the age of 31 or 32. Didn't know anything about tires, but started a tire shop. Eventually, over the course of 50 years, it grew into a multibillion-dollar operation. And he's famous for being really great at incentivizing employees. And he's famous for being very good at managing and leading to the point where Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger look to stories from him on how to properly lead and incentivize. And then go to the next slide. Look at what he looks like. So he was a hillbilly. He was, he was a, he was like a from the streets type of guy. I've been thinking about how I can describe these types of people because I love them. And I think the best way to describe it is small-town grit with big number swagger, something like that. Like these guys that you and I love who are these like blue-collar—

So small-town grit with big city swagger?

No, with like big number swagger. So it's like these guys—

let's call it big city swagger, right?

But what I mean is, is that they're like these kind of hillbillies who build these massive companies. And so they can— they make— like, for example, one of our friends, Kevin Van Trump, is one of them where you see this guy and he comes off, he's like, hey, what's going on, brother? I got to write my newsletter. And like, he like talks like this, but like, turns out he makes like $20 million a year. And like the people who read his newsletter, you know, Kevin's this big guy from Kansas City, comes off like, like a hillbilly because he talks funny. But he— his work is read by, like, you know, world leaders, and he makes $20 million a year. And in the background of his video Zoom call is like a Picasso. So, like, I love guys like this, and this guy is one of them. So Les Schwab started a tire company. He died in his 90s, but ran the company up until then, grew to a multibillion-dollar organization. And I want to go to the next one. I want to read— he wrote his own foreword to the book, and I highlighted my two favorite sentences from the foreword. Read that.

All right, so as Sarseeja says, this book is mainly written for the 2,000 families that make their living selling Les Schwab tires and for the thousands of families to follow in the next 20, 30, 40 years. All right, so he says, this is what you highlighted. I wrote this in November and December of 1985. I did write this 100% with my 40-year-old typewriter. Uh, I do thank Jan Nolan, my right-hand gal, Lorraine O'Hara, our word processing operator, for helping me correct misspelled words. And helping me with punctuation. I didn't have a ghostwriter. I wanted it in my own words. And then it says, basically, in this, I'm going to pass on my theories of business to our people. And he says, should we fail to follow these policies towards customers and employees going forward, I would prefer that my name be taken off the business. And then it ends with, he basically says, if you're not interested in business, this book will bore you. And if I were you, I wouldn't waste my time reading it.

How great is that?

How much of a simpleton am I that it's just, here's, You want to win me? Here you go. Push me away. It's all it takes. Oh, you think I won't like this book? Watch me read every word.

It's called—

I'm already buying a second copy.

Treat them mean, keep them keen. Yeah, that's all you got to do.

Why am I so easy to manipulate?

How beautiful is this guy?

So you read this book? Is it like—

I'm in the middle of reading it. Yeah. So far.

7 out of 10, fine and forgettable. 8 out of 10, I'll remember the big idea, but that's kind of it. I didn't need 300 pages. 9 out of 10, really enjoyed it. Good book. 10 out of 10, I'm giving this book out as gifts. Where is it at?

Uh, uh, I'm only a quarter of the way through and it's between an 8 and a 9. Yeah. An 8 and a 9.

Yeah.

Quite good.

And what's the big idea so far?

He just treats people well. And if you treat people well, you get rewarded in return. So it's, it's, it's, it's a very simple thing, which is you said there's a lack of common sense. He's a very common sense, rational person, but often rational means cold, and he is, he is rational warm.

Oh, warm rational. Okay, that's cool. That's a good insight, cuz your start of your answer was kind of boring, but the end of your answer was fire there. That was good.

So it's sort of like his original quote, which was, uh, I went to— I, I became a father to all these people, and I go to their weddings, and that makes me feel great. That is a rational thing to say, and, and it is warm, versus You know what a McKinsey consultant would say, which is it's all just about these numbers on a spreadsheet. That is also rational, but is rational cool?

Yes. So do you— honest question— do you think that you're— you kind of are doing that? Do you think that you have that kind of like, I'm a fatherly influence or a man influence on other men? Uh, and is that something you think is true or take pride in? Are you like, yes, I need to double down on that from this podcast? Because like, remember when we were at this dinner, or you weren't there, but I was at a dinner and I told you about it, like, this guy came up, you know, at the end of the dinner. He's like, hey, sorry, I wanted to say hi. I saw you guys over here. I didn't want to bother you. But he's like, because I always ask people, I say, what, you know, what do you really like about The Potter? Like, what is it, you know, what stood out to you or what's helped you? And he was like, he had basically mentioned, he's like, me and my girlfriend got pregnant. We didn't plan on that. But hearing you and Sam talk about like kind of how fun it is to have kids and build your business and they're not like either ors, like kind of nudged me towards deciding like, you know, we should keep this, we should do this. And I remember being like, whoa, that's like a lot of responsibility, a lot of weight on the words that I didn't really I sort of think about. Do you feel like that?

Yeah, I do. I think it's hard to feel that way because if people knew how we record this, we're just in our rooms, like by ourselves talking to each other on a screen. So it's hard to like feel a presence. But I think that, um, I view this podcast as well as my company. I view it a little bit more as a, a very tiny way to decide the life that I want to live with others and just make that reality in my small corner of the world. I also think that, like, I thought about like, we are not even remotely like this. So it, it, I don't even love saying it, but like when LeBron James or some famous athlete does something bad. And they're like, I didn't sign up to be a role model. I think about that all the time where I'm like, well, I used to like tweet some, something that was a little bit mean. And I'm like, well, I don't care if this influences me. This is just me. This is, this is just my opinion. And then now I'm like, uh, you know, it holds a little bit of weight. I want to make sure that I, I'm right about it and not hateful.

Right, right. And you know, the best thing that ever, like the best thing about a podcast is that it feels like I'm just talking to you and we're just goofing off here. There's only two of us. But like, you know, let's say this episode on average, these episodes get like, you know, 300,000 people listening to them. I mean, that's bigger than the biggest college football stadiums, you know what I mean? Like if we, if we were sitting in the 50-yard line and there was 3 stadiums stacked on top, it'd be like almost 3 or 4 stadiums of people stacked on top of each other. Do you know how differently we would do this? Like, it would suck. I would, I would be so nervous and thinking about every word. And the show would honestly suck if it was, if it felt that way. And so I think one of the real blessings is that that's not the case. You don't, you don't know it. You're blind to it.

We rarely record in real life. And one time that we did, there was a, uh, uh, the studio manager was a woman who was really attractive. And I noticed that one time one of us, or maybe I forget who, said something that made her laugh. And I was like, ooh, that felt nice. I wanna, I wanna make you laugh again. And then, and then she didn't laugh and I was like, That didn't feel good. And I started like performing really poorly. I'm like, I can't stand the presence of one person, let alone 300,000 in real life.

That's crazy. All right, next, next story I want to show you. Did you see this? Did you see this tweet?

No.

Here's what it says. So this is from @restructuring, which is a good— it's a good account, by the way. Do you follow this account?

No. Is this all about companies that have gone out of business?

No, it's kind of like PE. It's like a PE, uh, type of account. Uh, they treat private equity type of stuff. Anyways, um, we talked about this a while ago, I believe, didn't we? So I, I think we mentioned it, but I didn't, I didn't know the story. So the headline here is, man steals $122 million from Facebook and Google simply by sending them random bills which they agreed to pay.

Why is that a crime? Why is that a crime?

Exactly. This, the tweet here is This remains my favorite path to wealth. Exploiting the big company inefficiencies should not be illegal. Uh, I agree. All's fair in love and war. If you, if I send you an invoice and you pay it, am I at fault or you? Hold on. What's going on here? But there is a little more to the story. So have you read about how this actually worked?

No. Well, uh, wasn't he like legitimately a vendor for them?

No, no, I think that was a little bit of the problem. Um, okay, so here's the story. So there's a 50-year-old dude, the guy who's in cuffs here, and he was impersonating a company. So there was a company called Quanta Computer, that's a legit company that was a vendor for Facebook and Google. He sets up a company also called Quanta Computer but bases it out of Latvia. And so he just copies the same company name, the same logo, but it's incorporated in a different country. And he starts making fake invoices, contracts, letters, corporate stamps, corporate seals. And he's sending these to Facebook and Google for over 2 years. And he got paid out $122 million across the 2 companies. So $98 million from Facebook and $23 million from Google. They then find him in Latvia, extradite him. And here's a great quote from the U.S. attorney. So the guy's name, I guess it's Roma— Roma Souskis. So Roma Souskis thought he could hide behind a computer screen halfway across the world while he conducted his fraudulent scheme, but he has learned the arms of the American justice system are long, and he now faces time in a U.S. prison. Dude, how hard is this guy? This U.S. attorney, by the way, I think he still made out good. He had to give back he had to forfeit $49 million and he had to pay another, I think, $26 million in restitution. That doesn't add up to $122 million. So he might have still made a bunch of money.

What conversation do you have with your wife or your— like, so what do you do? What do you do, uh, guy?

You know, today I kind of want to get him on the pod. Jail pod. A rare category of illegal but impressive.

No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, like, it's like the, like the Bernie Madoff scheme. Not cool and impressive. Like, uh, you know what I want to— like, I want to learn more about it.

Right, right. And if you judge us for saying impressive and illegal, like, do you like Ocean's Eleven? Because those guys are right here rooting for the guys who are robbing. Uh, anyways, here we go. So, uh, what else we got? Oh, I have, uh, something here on ChatGPT. Have you seen this?

Okay, so ChatGPT's product retention curves is a product manager's wet dream. Their 1-month retention has skyrocketed from less, from less than 60% 2 years ago to an unprecedented 90%. YouTube was best in class with 85%. 6-month retention is trending towards 80% and rapidly rising. Generational product.

Okay, so this little line chart here if for people who don't really recognize this, imagine when you're at a hospital and they hook the patient up and you have the heart monitor and you see that heartbeat, that line, and it's got to keep beeping for the patient to be good, right? And you have all these, these monitors with these little lines. Well, this is the equivalent of that for a company. So what this is, is a retention curve. So the, the line at the very bottom here would be like the oldest cohort. So that's like people who signed up for ChatGPT 2 years ago. And as you could see, starts at 100% of people using it on day 0 or month 0, but then even by month 1, it's at 60%. By month 2, only 55% are still using it. And by the time you get to a year, you know, less than— it looks like 30% of people are still using the product. So that means more than 2/3 of people just stopped using it after they tried it. And that's the sign of a product that will never win, um, because— or that, that won't win as is because You're too— the bucket is too leaky. Uh, you know, you're getting too many customers in that are, that are churning out. They're not finding value in the product. And what this curve, what the, what the other lines are, are the next month, the next month, the next month. And as they improve the product, you can see that the drop-offs are way less. So now what he's saying is that basically the one-month retention is now 90%. So people are finding so much value the first month that they use it that a month later, 90% of them are still using it. And, so this is how— this is like the key metric for most businesses is retention. That's the thing that tells you if your business is going to be around for a long time or if it's just a leaky bucket. And seeing this with ChatGPT is pretty stunning. And it kind of leads into my next tweet here, which is that OpenAI is now at $10 billion in ARR. So that's 2x since the end of 2024. So they basically doubled revenue from $5 billion to $10 billion. and it's been less than 3 years since it launched. So in less than 3 years, they've grown this product to $10 billion in recurring revenue, which is just stunning. And it highlighted to me one, one very big takeaway from this, which is that OpenAI is the Facebook of this current generation.

Maybe more.

20 years ago, it was Google and Amazon were the big deal. That was, that was it. 30 years ago, it was like Microsoft. 20 years ago, it was like Google and Amazon. Maybe 15 years ago or so, you know, it was, that was the Facebook era. And Facebook was the thing that was like, oh, it's a billion-dollar company, a $10 billion company, and now it's a trillion-dollar company. Well, the one right now is, uh, is OpenAI. For the next decade, it's gonna— we're just gonna— me and you are probably gonna look at ourselves and be like, how were we doing this podcast? How are we looking at these tweets, these charts, and just like, why didn't we go buy OpenAI stock? Like, how dumb do we have to be? Like, it was on Sarah's list 3 years ago or something like that.

Wait, was it really? Did we talk about it then?

Maybe not 3, but 2 for sure. Like, I think, I think the very first, uh, Serious List episode, we probably had them on there. And it's like, I was like, what, what kind of doofuses are we that we don't own any of this stock?

Can, can you own it?

Yeah, you can buy it in secondary.

I, uh, I had a buddy of mine about 2 or 3 years ago. He was at my house. You know who this guy is. And we were, uh, talking and he was like, yeah, I have a job offer from Neuralink. And OpenAI. And I was like, wow, those are both pretty promising. What do you think? And he was like, what should I do? And we just had a conversation about it. And I didn't know anything. I mean, at the time it was really hard. Like, they're both like run by tycoons. They're both really interesting. They're both the hot startup. And he chose OpenAI and he has made so much money just in, in two or like tens of millions of dollars in the, in like 2.5 or 3 years. Just from being like the 1,000th employee, something like that. Like, like nothing. Like, it's just astounding at how big this is.

And what is his job? Is he a— he's not like these kind of like the rare AI PhD type dudes, right? Is he a programmer? Is he a product person? What's this?

What's the role? Product person. Yeah, product person. Uh, sorry, sorry, uh, programmer. He's a programmer.

Oh, okay.

Massive difference.

Uh, I was going to say, if you're a product guy and you made tens of millions of dollars at OpenAI, how's that even possible? If you're just like, you know, a random person, engineers, okay, I guess I can see it. You know, you get a, you get a, a stock package that's worth $2 million over 4 years, but you got it when OpenAI was valued at $60 billion and now it's valued at $400 billion. Right. So it's, it's up, you know, 8x or something like that. And so your $2 million stock package has turned out to actually be a $16 million stock package. It's crazy that that's a normal thing that happens. That's happened to like 1,000 people right now or more in, uh, like in a, in a like 30-mile radius of where I live.

This was sort of an un— we kind of like glazed over this, but basically, uh, Harley from Shopify was on the pod and he, at one point they were worth $250, I think when we recorded with them, they were worth $150 billion. And it's basically like the 100th largest company in the world right now, which means it's like the, like the 100th largest company probably ever, ever created. It's like around the world. Like, so of every business ever created, it is the 100th most valuable, which is, which is astounding, right? That's, that's an astounding number to think that OpenAI is a less than— it's a, it's a decade-old or something like that company, and it is already like the 50th or 25th largest company ever created. Isn't that astounding? Not even from a, like a product or the technology, but literally how do you organize that? Like organize the people who work there, organize the investors, just the organizational, you know, they say like just the idea of like, you know, have you heard these stories about China building like a fast railroad in like, you know, 6 months? Like it's, it's, it's, it's sort of fascinating like that.

It's definitely the number one most valuable nonprofit ever.

Is it still really a nonprofit? I think so.

And he said they're not going to—

he also said they're not going to make a profit until they hit— what did he say? He goes, we can't make a profit until we get to $10 billion in revenue or something. Remember my thing earlier about like just push me me away.

Their investor thing, which is like, listen, we have to put a cap, 100x cap on your returns because this is going to get bananas. So dude, that pitch, the balls it takes to have that as your pitch, which is like, um, instead of promising upside, saying, listen, we're going to need to cap your upside because it's going to be so insane how much value we create. Um, so I just need to make sure you're okay with that. I'm going to start using that. I'm going to start using that formula. In my life.

Skip to the, uh, this Elon one.

Yeah. All right, why don't you frame this one up?

All right, so, uh, the, uh, breaking news: President Trump comments on Elon Musk's apology. I thought it was very nice that he said that, Trump says. And Elon Musk has a tweet that says, I regret some of the posts about President Trump last week. They went too far. Insane. This is insane. You can't do that and apologize, right? There is— you don't apologize. Like, dude, if I called you a, a pedophile or a rapist in front of literally the entire world, right? I can't say I'm sorry.

There's no sorry big enough, you're saying?

Dude, Genghis Khan doesn't apologize. Like, when you do, like Can you imagine Napoleon being like, hey, that one, it went a little far. Do you want to, like, shake it out?

Like, oh, you're saying conquerors can't apologize? That's the take.

That was such a crazy thing to do and say. And he tweeted it out very casually where he said, have a nice day, Donald Trump. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was so— it was— it was such a dagger. You can't apologize for that. I don't see how you can come back from that. And I don't see why you would even try.

Right? Well, I could see why you would try, which is like, you know, you, well, there's no winners at war basically is what's going to happen here with these guys fighting.

But, uh, and then look at the next one, dude.

The, the next one.

Elon knows I love him.

No, no, hold on. I'm open to reconciling with Elon after seeing his latest post. Elon knows I love him. JD knows this too. That's just hilarious, by the way. I don't even know why that's in there. JD knows this too. I give the best and biggest reconciliations. Everybody knows this.

That is incredible.

I don't even know if this is fake, by the way. This could totally be a fake Truth post because there's nothing easier to fake than a Truth Social post because nobody has— nobody I know has an account on there. And so you could just write anything and make me tell me that he tweeted that. And plus, he's— he might say— he might— he could totally have said this. Uh, but dude, how funny is this? Elon knows I love him. JD knows this too. What's that?

I don't know. I think it's because, uh, JD was on, uh, Theo Von's podcast talking about it.

I mean, are they not talking day to day? And then he goes, I give the biggest and best reconciliation.

Dude, it's insane.

Melania knows this.

It's insane, man. It's just crazy. This is a reality show. This is—

by the way, we need to clip in you calling this on the podcast that they would break up. You were like, how long do you give this? And it was like a couple months or something. And I was like, well, I don't know, they're both like pretty all in on each other. It seems like it's gonna be really hard to It'd be really messy if they try to break this off. And you're like, rule number 1 from the 48 Laws of Power, right? Is that what you were quoting? You were like, never outshine the master.

Yeah. And I also said they're going to break up in June. I said it's going to only last until June.

Wow. What a waste of an incredible prediction.

Yeah. I mean, it's like being the tallest midget. Like, it's not that interesting, but like, it was a very easy prediction. This was— I— we knew that it was going to happen. They were going to have a falling out. And, uh, I had, you know, an 8% chance of guessing the month. It was very predictable. But I— this was sort of one of those moments where, like, I remember where I was when it happened. When I saw that, when I saw that tweet, we were— my company had a meeting and everyone said, oh my God, it was pretty crazy how Elon and Trump fighting, it brought down the stock market. Did you see that? Yeah, it was absolutely ridiculous that my finances were impacted by this spat. And I thought that— I thought it was kind of funny.

It was a, it was a wild day. The memes that day were incredible. I think I tweeted that out. I was like, listen, this is a sad day for America, but the content is outstanding right now. Let's talk self-driving real quick. So self-driving cars are on fire in, uh, LA. They're, the rioters are beating up the self-driving cars. Not sure exactly why, but I like this one from Andrew Ackerman. Nodded at the Waymo in downtown DC so it would know I'm one of the good ones.

Have you developed a relationship with your AI? I mean, I don't like to say that, but yeah, like my voice changed on my ChatGPT, like the talking voice. And I had to like, I was like, I felt uncomfortable talking to her because I had gotten close to the other one.

Sarah, you're good.

I had to, so I had to change it back. And so he's joking, but not really, right?

I mean, this is kind of like the, uh, sometimes I pray to God even though I don't believe, but just in case. Uh, there's definitely an element of that with AI. Where I'm like, I'm going to say please and thank you, you know, just in case. Just in case things get a little crazy.

Have you taken a Waymo?

Yeah, they're amazing. Have you?

No, they don't have them in Connecticut. It's not exactly like the best place to try it out. But no, I think they're amazing. Everyone says they're amazing. Go to that one. Go to the Eric one. I think this is like an inspirational one. So check this out. So, uh, I, I met Eric. So Eric, Eric's the CEO of a company called Ramp, which like has grown to like a $6 billion valuation in like 4 or 5 years. And he was telling me about, uh, TP— what is it? What's it called? TBN? What's it stand for? The Tech Bros Podcast Network?

I don't know what that actually stands for. They tried to change it so it's not bro— Technology Brothers. I think it's called like The Business Podcast. I think that's what they changed it. But it'll always be Technology Brothers to me. Go on.

So it's this guy named Jordy and John Coogan. They're fantastic. They have this new podcast. It's more like a daily news show, not even a podcast, but like a video show.

It's not even a show. It's basically they do stuff, but you don't even need to watch the show. It's all clips for Twitter. So it's like Twitter is like short shorts and clips is what they make.

They're hilarious. And they had, I was at Eric's office. And I said, what's this? And it was a little booklet. And apparently they had made like a 20-page book that they sent to potential sponsors, people they're courting to like, you know, be their sponsor. And they wanted to get like a big check. And I turned the page and on one of them, uh, there was this, this piece of copy, uh, in the deck. And it said, our hope is that this partnership is the domino that bankrupts your competitors and grants you a monopoly so powerful that you are dragged in front of Congress. And I read that line and I was like, that is the greatest opening line for a pitch deck that I've ever read. It was fantastic.

Yeah.

And I read that line and, uh, I was joking with Eric. I'm like, this is the greatest thing I've ever read. And he was, he, it made him giggle. So I guess he shared that and it's wonderful. How good is that?

Dude, they're so fucking good. I love those guys. Also, I have a funny Eric story. I met Eric when I was in college and, um, we both got picked for this trip to go, go to the Alibaba headquarters. So it was like a free all expenses paid trip to China, courtesy of Jack Ma for 50 of the top college entrepreneurs. And I was on this bus and Eric was right next to me. Nice guy. He's kind of a baby-faced guy at the time. I don't know if he still is.

You said you met him in person, but yeah, he's like, he's like, he doesn't come off like a tycoon. Like he comes off like very kind and warm. Yeah, exactly.

And, uh, at the time, I think he was literally in an MLM. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure he was selling products that were part of a, like a, like an MLM sort of scheme, or, or he was— I don't remember exactly.

Was it like essential oils?

It was like creams or something like that. And, um, I, I'm vaguely remembering this, so I could totally be wrong. Sorry, Eric, if I got some of the details wrong. But I swear, if it's not that, it's in the zip code. And I just remember thinking like, oh, this guy's kind of cool. He's a hustler, really nice guy. I don't know what he's doing with these, you know, whatever it was, creams or whatever he was doing at the time. And then I've seen him build Ramp and I'm like, is that the dude from the bus in China who was trying to sell me creams? And it just goes to show anything is possible, dude.

When I talked to him, it was him and his partner. It was like me, David Senra, Eric and then Eric's partner all in a room. And we were just riffing and then hanging out. I was wanting to meet up with David because David's a buddy of mine. He goes, hey, I'm going to be hanging out at Ramp's office if you just want to come and see me. It's right down the street from your office. So I go to see him and I walk in and it's, and it's, and it's these guys. And it was so, it was pretty cool. And the partner of co-founder of Ramp, Kareem, I think his name was, he told me this story. He was like, yeah, like we had this idea and our goal was to get to become a, we wanted to get to a billion dollar valuation. In 12 months. That was the goal. And we did the math and we thought that was possible. And I was flabbergasted. I was like, what? I was like, did you hit it? He goes, no, man, we didn't hit it. It took like 18 months. And, uh, and it was just really cool to be in a room of people who thought like craziness like that. And it actually worked.

Well, you know what's crazy? You know, uh, I think they were a massive underdog when they started. So if you remember back when they were early, Brex was already out and early as well. And Brex was the San Francisco-based company. Ramp is in New York. Brex had the YC network and connection. They went through YC and they were all the YC companies were kind of like, you know, YC is kind of like this network effect, this little mafia that they have that can kind of kingmake certain companies if you get enough momentum. And I just remember I would have bet like the odds, the betting odds were that Brex, given those advantages, given that they're the SF, the tech, tech-focused one, like really was, is the New York startup going to beat the Silicon Valley startup? It didn't really seem like that was usually the case.

And they had ads everywhere. Brex did.

They were advertising everywhere. They were a hot name. They were NYC. Like they had a lot of things that would have made you think they would be the winner here. And Ramp has thoroughly kicked the shit out of Brex. They are worth way more and have done a much better job. I use Ramp. It's a great, great product. So, you know, that is very impressive to me. I think that that was, that is not how I would have guessed that that would have played out.

100%. I agree with you. Apparently the story is that they ran a company called Paribus, which is something like, uh, you get rebates online. So you buy something and you can get like, uh, uh, they help you find a deal and you get a little bit of money and the brand saves a little bit of money, something like that. Like, you know, if something's $100, you pay $90 and they give you a little bit of cash back, whatever. They sold the company after 3 years for $40 or $50 million. And he was like, it was nice. Like, we like, but we got a lot wrong. And when we sold it, we sold it to Capital One. And in Capital One, we learned about the demand for all these things and like the demand for like a good bank account system, demand for all these business services that people needed. And we ran the math because we saw like how big Capital One was and we thought that we could build a billion-dollar company in the first year if we did one or two things right. And it was amazing to hear that story.

That's pretty cool. We should get Eric on. That would be, well, he should come on and tell the story.

I'm working, I'm working with them on it. Um, they have this like huge like event. They're basically, what they're doing doesn't sound like it would work, but it's working. So they're like doing all this goodwill stuff, sponsoring podcasts. They have this huge office that seats 300 people and they just host events there. Like these things where like people are like, oh, but like what's the attribution to that? And it's like, I don't know, but it somehow it still works.

Right. Okay. We got to do one here. This is a, oh no, hold on. My, my text is gone here, but I have a new segment, Sam. Rich guy house alert.

What happened?

All right. I saw this tweet about some event. It was like an event, I think for like San Francisco, like kind of like policy, like set policy maybe. And I was like, okay, cool, whatever. Hundreds of people went to this like San Francisco policy thing. And then somebody goes, But the tweet said, uh, overwhelmed with the standing room only crowd at Gary Tan's house. And I just remember thinking, Gary Tan's house? And I see this tweet that says, this is Gary Tan's house? Big ass house.

Dude, Gary Tan told us he lived in a neighborhood of the city of San Francisco.

Yeah, so we're gonna try to try not to dox him, although he said he came in and he goes, hell yeah, it is my house. And this is the house. So have you seen this? It is an old church.

I remember that. Yeah, across the street from Dolores Park.

Yeah, exactly. So So he lives at some— he owns this thing called the Lighthouse. It's a townhouse condo at a 100-year-old restored church right across from Dolores. It's 4 beds, 3 baths, but it's got 30-foot ceilings. Crazy. So look at this house, dude.

Wait, he lives there, or is that like an event space?

He owns it. I don't know if he full-time lives there. I don't want to comment on that, but like, how insane is this? I've always, by the way, I've always dreamed of doing this, buying an old church. Because old churches have like sometimes amazing locations and really like unique bones and structure. I didn't know you could convert them to housing. So this is kind of interesting here. But dude, how crazy is this house?

I remember when this was for sale in San Francisco. It was— I still live there and I remember it being for sale. And I remember there was another person living there, not living there. It was like a rich— it was another rich guy who was using it for events and they put it for sale. And I'm amazed that he bought this. This looks awesome.

Oh my God, look at this bedroom, dude. I don't sleep in a steel cage.

I don't want— yeah, that's pretty sick. Yeah, I don't, I don't want that. You know, if I was like Brock Lesnar or someone like really hardcore, like, that looks cool.

But like, when you watch too much WWE, you're like, okay, Hell in a Cell bedroom.

Look, I'm not a tough guy. I'm not Brock Lesnar.

I mean, how hardcore is this bedroom, dude? This is amazing. I love how he's got like the plush carpet right outside, like a waiting room lobby before you enter the bed zone. All right, do we want to do any more or are we out?

Oh yeah, two more. I want to show you guys my oldest bookmark from the year 2018.

All right, here we go. All right. In preparation for this podcast, Sam's like, cool, let me just go look at my Twitter bookmarks and see what good tweets I have. And you found this, your first ever bookmark. Is this in 2018?

Yep.

What is this?

So it's this group of Kenyan men, uh, the Samburu men are—

Describe this like, you know, because there's people who listen to this only on audio. By the way, if you've been listening to this on audio the whole time, please get to YouTube. Please go to YouTube and watch this because this is— that this whole thing works if you see the tweets.

Do you remember that movie with Kevin Bacon where he went to Africa to play basketball and he found this like tribe of like really tall guys and they would jump up and they would wear like, like very traditional what you would think of like an African tribesperson wearing, right? They have their shirtless and they have like amazing beads and whatever, and they have the red hair just like the guy in the movie. That's what this is. It's a group of guys in Kenya. And the tweet says that these men are often considered to be the most stylish men on the planet. And it's a photo of these guys. And so, look, honestly, agreed.

First of all, the account is called @KenyaPix. Is that an account you just follow?

Yeah, I love Kenya because I like, I like runners. And so my goal has always been to go to the Rift Valley, which is this area of Kenya, and see Kenyan runners. I've always admired, like, running and particularly there's like this group. There's like, imagine like a small town. Imagine like your town, like a suburb. And like something like 90% of the distance gold medals have been won by this group of like 10,000 people in Kenya. And that always fascinates me. And so I've always wanted to go and see these guys. And this is like nearby in that tribe.

And so then, and then it just says hashtag International Men's Day. So that was cool back when hashtags were a thing. And then there's also a picture of the guy jumping and he's, guy's easily 5 feet off the ground. I don't know how, is this Photoshop? This is incredible. What is this?

No, I don't, I don't know what that is.

I don't know.

I, I don't know that much about Kenya, but it looks dope to me. Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, what about the Theo Vaughn one? Let's see that last one.

So it's a picture of Theo Von, uh, smiling like how my son does when we try to get him to take a picture. He's with Ivanka Trump and, uh, who's that, Jared, right?

Yeah, Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. And he says, uh, y'all's posture is so good. What the hell? Are y'all, are y'all in spine club or something? I'm built like a damn raccoon. Thanks for the hospitality. Had a blast. It's pretty amazing, dude.

You and I.

Okay, so when Sean and I started this podcast, Sean started it, and then I joined a little bit later, and I said, do you like Fighter and the Kid? And Sean was like, I love Fighter and the Kid. And Fighter and the Kid is a not so much popular podcast anymore, but it was two guys, Brendan Schaub and Brian Callen, who would talk about UFC fighting, and their friend Theo Vaughn would occasionally come on the pod. He was just a guy. Like he was a, he was a character on the pod and that slowly has developed into— they had another pod together called King It and Sting It and he rose further and further and further. Dude, look at him now. He's like, he's talking to the president, the vice president. He's hanging out with these guys. How crazy of a career has Theo had in the last decade? It's amazing.

It's his rise is pretty crazy. I actually knew him from when he was on like Road Rules 10 years ago, like, because I liked like real-world road rules and the challenge and stuff like that. And so yeah, it's pretty wild to see kind of the crazy growth. But even more wild is this. This is what I appreciate about this, because this tweet, it's funny, but do you know how hard it is as a man to put up like a, a kind of like a thank you post or a congratulatory post but not be lame? And Theo did it. You know what I mean? Like, think about what this post is. This post is basically like, had such a good time at brunch. But if you just posted that, dude, like, you know, that's the lamest thing that you could possibly do. But to go with this, y'all's posture is so good, what the hell, y'all in spine club or something? It's just, that's how it's done. And so I'm studying the art of how, how men can express themselves while still being, still being cool about it, you know what I mean?

Dude, he's the best. He's one of the few podcasts that I listen to. I listen to him and Tim Dillon. Have you ever listened to him and Tim Dillon?

I'm not a huge Tim Dillon guy, but it's an acquired taste. Yeah, yeah.

It's very much like Wartase. It took me about 2 years to get into him. He's, uh, it's pretty raunchy. Uh, it's, he's, these guys are like, uh, my 2 favorite podcasters right now. It's pretty amazing how good they are.

By the way, on the same subject, I have a Father's Day post idea for you. I think we should close out with this one. Um, may have to present this with no comment, but I thought this might be a good one for you to post this, uh, this weekend.

Yeah, that's gonna be a no for me, dog.

All right, that's it. That's the pod.