The power of Facebook advertising for Roofers with Adam Sand - Episode 67

I'm Galen Heer, founding partner of Insurance Claim hq, one of the country's largest property casualty law firms. We build our firm through practice, a sense of purpose, a few innovations, and just cutting the crap. We grew to get all the BS awards, including Best Property Casualty Attorney in the U.S. starting with only $7,000 in the bank and the operating budget of a lemonade stand, we have grown exponentially. In this podcast, we sit down with property casualty and business professionals from all over and find out what drives them, what scares them, and what advice they have for others. Most importantly, we find out how they level up. This is the Level Up Claims Podcast. The Level Up Claims Summit is back and bigger than ever. Join an exclusive group of your colleagues who have committed to growing their business and sharpening their claims handling. We're here to make your business run more effectively and efficiently, helping you with operations, processes, marketing, recruiting, and more. All from some of the brightest minds in their fields. And we've lined up industry experts to help you improve the way you handle claims. We have so much packed in for you. We extended the summit to two full days just to fit it all. Let's level up together, commit to change and reserve your spot at the Level Up Claim Summit now before we sell out. Tickets are available@levelupclaim.com if you're a roofer.

Who'S struggling to grow your business and are not having success with your marketing.

Efforts, if you're even doing marketing, our.

Guest today was literally in your shoes. He is the owner of a roofing.

Company who shared the same struggles until he devised a marketing strategy on Facebook.

Which led to over four years, $400,000 in growth over 60 days.

Today we'll talk marketing and we'll talk business processes. Please welcome Adam Sand.

Adam, thanks so much for joining us.

Happy to be here, Matt. I'm excited.

Let's introduce you to some folks because some folks know you for sure, but I think there's a good number of folks that don't. And so before we get there, roofing industry, what was it that actually got you into running your own roofing company to begin with?

Well, I had a very, I had a varied past. So I was sold vacuum cleaners, I was in the military, I worked on the oil rigs, I sold cars. I, you know, I would did built my own app and sold it. I was a bodyguard. Like I did a lot of different things. My best friend at the time, he had worked his way up from a shingler to a foreman kind of running crews for his roofing company. The owner sold that roofing company to a new guy, and he really didn't like his new boss, and he wasn't making very much money. And I kind of thought. I asked him one day, I was like, why don't you start your own roofing company? He looked into what the rates were, and he told me, oh, yeah, you get like, this much is like the market for that. Like, why don't you start your own? They didn't really know how to start a business, and I had a few. So I was like, well, this is what you do. So I loaned him some money to get a business license and some tools. Those tools got stolen, so they had. I loaned him some money to buy more. And then it just now, like, the conversations when I was at his house were always about business. Quite often I would give him help, and it kind of became apparent that I was never going to get my money back unless I started helping him. And I looked at it as a pretty good opportunity. Like, I looked at the roofing industry, and I was just looking at what he was doing. I said, man, there's a lot of money to be made in this. So then I kind of started helping him out. And after about a year and a half or so, I just said, we should probably formalize this, like, partnership on paper. But, um, you know, at that point, we had, you know, website. I was doing the Facebook ads, and we were doing Facebook ads in, like, 2016, 2017, when there's, you know, now you can't throw a shingle off a roof without hitting a marketer in the head. But back then, you know, there was nobody to learn from or to teach me. So I had to, like, go and find gurus that just taught, like, Facebook ads generally and. And kind of figure out how to get. Make it work in roofing. Because back then, if you didn't have a buy now button, like, people thought you were stupid for running Facebook ads. I couldn't even get an agency to do it because they're like, we don't have a buy now button in roofing. So why would you run Facebook ads? I thought, well, everybody on here is like. It's like they're on this thing all the time. And it's attention. Attention is good for advertising. So I think I should be running ads on Facebook. And then we figured it out and, like, so that's kind of the origin story of me getting into. Into a roofing company.

Yeah, that's. It's so funny to me because, yeah, everyone thought social media marketers if they weren't selling an actual thing, we're just wasting their time. And the ones that didn't listen to that really bad advice are all retired on a beach somewhere now. Because the reality is there was just no marketing for professional services, actual services, period, on social media early on. So. But you've always kind of been fascinated by the Internet, so I guess that's shocking. So let's talk about the first ads you ran. I understand you grew your business by like 420,000 in 60 days.

What I realized one day when I went to go visit him on site is that I went there and it said urban contracting on the lawn sign. And I. And I said, why does it say urban contracting? You're sergeant's roofing. And he said, well, that's who got the job. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, so they got the job for the roofing, and then we are doing the roof. And so then they pay us per square to do the roof, and then I pay my guys per bundle. Said, but you should put your long side out there. He says, no. Like, we're not allowed. That's part of the agreement. And I didn't know that this is how roofing worked, right? Like, I'd never had a day in this life. And so I just said, well, it doesn't sound to me like you started a business. It sounds to me like you have a pimp. Like, you do all the dirty work and you get what's left over, and he gets all the money and doesn't have to do the dirty work. Like, that sounds like a pimp relationship. You should have your own business. And so we talked to a friend of ours who's a youth pastor in the past, right. And now he was a contractor. And we talked to him about it. He's like, yeah, you guys should specialize and start getting your own customers. And so I was just trying to figure out, how do we get our own customers? We started with a going to a dinner that that guy hosted and talking to friends and stuff like that and posting on Facebook. We didn't have a website, and so we didn't even technically have a website when we launched Facebook ads, because I thought, well, who's going to go to our website? Nobody knows we exist. And so I found this guy named the Art of Paid Traffic Podcast with Rick Mulready, and he had a course on Facebook ads for, like, three grand. And I said. And I was like, everything was about how to make money on the Internet, and I got mad in his chat and I said, man, it seems like everybody. He's doing his cart closing, right? So the court's closing in 24 hours. And I went on his chat and I was like, seems like all you marketers do is talk about how to make money on the Internet by making money on the Internet. Like, nobody's talking about how to make money real business. And he said, while you're in, I wouldn't really know how you would advertise roofing. So I can tell you how Facebook ads works. If you want to take my course, take my course. Otherwise, like, shut up. So I was like, fine. We bought the thing. And so we tried, you know, back then, there was no image. There's no video ads, right? Like, you couldn't run a video ad. There's no ads on the mobile feed. They were in the news feed in the desktop, but not in the mobile app. And you had those little ads on the right hand side. So we tried all the stuff that everybody else talks about. Free inspection, $500 up a roof, that kind of stuff. Basically the stuff that you'd run as a coupon. But then when I understood in the course about retargeting, he just said, something made sense. Build audience and retarget. And so, I mean, I blew, like a lot of money. We're talking like $50,000 of my own cash right on this. But then when I figured out how to use infographics to communicate ideas in the value of certain components of the roof, and then combine that with retargeting for that component to be free, that's when it took off like crazy. And it all started. I can still remember, like it was yesterday. And nobody will see this cause of my hands. But essentially I would go out with him on sales calls. And back then, the proposals that most people get saw drip edge as an option, like it was an upgrade. And my partner believed that drip edge should be mandatory for any roof. And so I thought, okay, well, when you talk. When he was trying to talk to a customer and close them on getting the drip edge standard, because customers like, why are you forcing me to buy Drip Edge? We would. He would hold up his hands, and if you're listening to this, just picture trying to explain like a gutter and then your fingers over top of a gutter and water dropping in. And he would do that. And I thought that was a really silly way to try and explain it. And back in my times, owning a tanning salon, I remember trying to explain to people why melanin in your tanning lotion made your skin tan faster because you had these melanocytes in your skin. And I made this infographic showing that like sun plus tyrosine in your lotion would produce melanin. Because sunlight plus tyrosine in your melanocyte is like a factory that produces melanin and makes your skin dark. And I had to explain this to like 16 year old, 20 year old girls, right? They're coming to town. So I thought we should do this in roofing. And so I made an infograph about drip edge and how it could add five years to life your roof. I advertised an image ad that said how drip edge could add five years life your roof. And then everybody that went to that infographic, which by this point we did have a website, but it was a landing page and it just said, hey, come to this page. And we just read anybody who went to that was saying free drip edge on every roof in May. And then all these people, we spent like four grand and got $420,000 worth of sales. And that was like, boom, the whole company. And then we just like, okay, well let's try that again with ventilation. Let's try that again with metal valleys. Let's try that again with so and so. And so. We started offering these like components that were relatively cheap. And man, I got made fun of by every roofer. There was like, free drip edge, that's not even a deal. And I was like, yeah, but the customer views the perceived value of drip edge as adding five years life to the roof. And that's what we were trying to communicate in the sales experience, which is that if you just get this upgrade, you will get more life out of your roof because you bought. But we don't see it as an upgrade. We view it as standard. So then we just, we just figured that we would just promote it as something to give away for free. Cause it didn't cost a whole lot, but it was something that we believe should be on every route. And so we just ran that recipe over and over and over again. And then that, that was what caused the growth.

So that's interesting. So let's kind of break that up because there was a lot of information there.

But I want to be alex or Mosey's $100 million leads book. So that's what you generate an audience, you retarget them with an offer, you convert on your offer and the value has to exceed the price.

So yeah, I mean, that's exactly what it is. But I think the infographic thing was kind of interesting and I kind of laughed. When you're talking about the tanning salon, right? Not because I don't think, honestly it's much harder to explain to 16 to 20 year old girls, anyone else. But one of the things they say is if you create graphics and visuals that a child would understand, then you know that your audience is going to actually get it right. It's so hard to explain what your value proposition is with words sometimes. So just creating a graphic that really lets you understand. I mean, you know, drip Edge is such a good example, right? I mean, what does the average consumer even know about Drip Edge? Do they even know what it does or why it's helpful or why it matters?

Average consumer, 0.0%. Exactly.

And yet so many roofers don't educate them on any of these things that are like, you guys had a value proposition which is you want to drip edge on every single roof anyway, you thought it needed to happen. So you marketed it as a free upgrade essentially that you were giving. But you had to explain why that was important and why that was a value proposition. And I just think that's so huge. So you made a lot of money really fast, I guess, in terms of ads and what you saw. But obviously that is not the world we live in today. So how has the name, how has the game of like social media marketing changed?

Well, I mean, essentially the platform back then had not yet even figured out like how to monetize mobile. So back then you had Gary Vee on stage talking about the future is mobile. You got to hold this. And he's holding up his phone in front of crowds and saying, Facebook's going to figure out how to monetize this. And you go to figure out how to monetize mobile and all like the stock market shows, the mad money. Jim Cramers of the world were talking about, how is Facebook going to monetize mobile? And the dots are so easily connected looking backwards, but they this, we now know how they monetize the mobile phone through the mobile Facebook app. Now that platform has reached critical mass, which means that in terms of social media, you know, groups and pages don't get as much organic views. You know, you're, you're not able to take advantage of the free traffic because you're trying. People are going to any social media platform for free value. I'm on the can I open TikTok, I swipe through videos. So I laugh while I'm going the bathroom, you know. But you now have to Pay more to insert your ad into that. And if your ad does not communicate any kind of free value in terms of education or entertainment, then your ad just gets scrolled past. So I teach that, I'm teaching this like 10 class course to our customers right now through these. We just do like these webinars and it's talking about the fundamentals of successful advertising. And the big problem that exists is that we don't know how to do even the, the fundamentals of advertising. We're just, you know, we're just spraying and praying and camouflaging. Spending is marketing. So you know, the elements of a successful ad is going to be first you have to find a way to stop them from scrolling. Then you have to get their attention, right? So you have to get them to stop and then watch or turn on the audio, pay attention. Then you hopefully over time can become known so that you build an audience of people who say, oh, I recognize this, I'll stop and see what's here this time. So that you can retarget that audience. Then get them to click so they will go to be presented with your offer and convert. And this has not changed since day one. The pieces of it have gotten harder or more expensive and people tend to devalue new platforms because not enough people are on it or that's for kids. There's somebody that's going to be running TikTok ads for roofing that's going to look really stupid right now. And then, you know, in five years they're going to be on a podcast talking about how they did it.

Yeah, that's. And that seems to exactly be the. What's the word I want to use? It seems to be the cycle we're stuck in, right. Where we love to make fun of our colleagues who are doing things that seem risky. And then in a couple of years we'll say, oh, they were just lucky they were in the right place at the right time. Well, you know, you're making fun of them when they were doing this before. So I'm not sure that they were in the right place at the right time. I think you all were there. They're just the only ones that did anything about it. But with that said, so the pieces have gotten harder. And I think that's an important part, right, which is anyone can access these advertiser, you know, portals right now. You can sign up for a Facebook ads account, you can create your own ads and start running them. But it does feel and look, it's gotten interestingly enough Some of it's gotten harder and more complicated over time, but the portal has not necessarily gotten harder to use. So I think it lulls you into this false sense of security, of like, I know what I'm doing, but I don't know what I'm doing. But of course that makes sense to them because they just want you to spend money. They don't really care how you spend the money. So with all that said, you know, what do you recommend to someone that, you know, there's a lot of roofers out there right now that just don't market. So if there's some roofer at home right now listening to this and he's thinking, you know, I've always been interested in doing some marketing, but I've never done it. What are kind of the three tips you would give him or her?

It's interesting. I just had this conversation last night. You know, the guy, he's, you know, he's paying his agency and the agency is getting him leads for $524 a qualified lead, which is too expensive. And he hired a marketing manager, you know, very expensive. He said, you know, she didn't really know what he was doing. And that was last year. And he wasn't clear exactly how many months he kept her, but it was more than a month, which is too long. And if you are looking to advertise and grow any business, you have to pick a strategy and commit to it and when. And pick a strategy is itself a whole book, you know, but you want to pick something that you can be good at. I have zero fear opening up my camera and going live on zero notice to talk about any topic that I feel like I am knowledgeable on. So you could ask me that question standing in an open field and tell me to go live and answer it. And I would answer it probably using a similar answer to this because I feel comfortable with it. But some people just aren't comfortable on camera. The minute they see their face on their screen, their brain just vacates the building. And so if you like, does video and lives and promoting those as paid traffic, does that work to generate an audience that you can retarget with offers? Yes. But you have to do it consistently. You have to lean in. If you're not going to be comfortable on camera and if you're not going to commit to making a hundred terrible videos before you expect yourself to be good, you shouldn't do that. And if you're going to do things like click and SEO and trying to do paid Ads in Google. Does it work? Yes, but you have to understand, you have to like you, you have to understand the metrics. You have to learn it. If you, you have to, you're gonna spend, what do you like, what are you gonna spend on a thousand impressions? What is your click through rate on that? How many do you convert from that into some kind of lead that you can then retarget to so that you can then convert them in an offer? What are you going to pay in your cost per thousand impressions for that second group? What is your click through rate on that second group? What is your conversion rate on that group and what are your input costs going to be? Because you have to have creative. If you're not going to put your, if you're not going to rip open your phone and record a video for free and get all that production value that was not available 50 years ago, well then you're going to have to do something else, which means you're going to have to get design and creative animated videos, something like that. And it has to be good. It can't suck. If it sucks, yes, you made a video, but if it sucks, too bad. So a picture of a drone or, sorry, a drone picture of a roof with free inspection. It doesn't invoke anything, so it's not going to get you any results. Or if, if you're going to do direct mail. I see you guys try direct mail. Does direct mail work? Yes. And you'll say, well, did you try direct mail? I said, yeah, we tried it. What'd you do? We ran 5,000 postcards to this zip code and 5,000 postcards to that zip code. And it's like, all right, and how'd you get, what'd you get for results? We got like one lead and it's like, okay, well, most people don't even test for less than 5,000 postcards to one zip code eight times in a row, you know, over the course of six weeks. So you just didn't even do the bare minimum. But what they do is they sprinkle a little bit here and a little bit here and a little bit here and a little bit here and a little bit here and a little bit here. And then determine that all marketing methods don't work. Marketers are con artists. And I'm not a marketer. I mean, I don't as of this day sell any kind of marketing services. I did. I used to have a school teaching Facebook ads. Then I started do running Facebook ads for roofing companies. Then we got into this custom CRM stuff. The, you know, and I teach a little bit to my clients, like to give, make them know enough to be dangerous. It's the mindset of the entrepreneur that I tried all those things. It's like you didn't even do enough to test all those things, let alone actually say that that was your campaign.

Yeah. You know, and I think that's a big. You've kind of implied it a few times. And I think finally, like, you just said it. Right. Lots of business owners are like, oh, I hired a marketing guy and you made the, like, sarcastic comment about, I let him stay for at least a month. But, you know, that was too long. Right. The problem is you could be wasting money. It's possible that you hired someone that is not good at what they do, and you let them go for months on months on months. But the problem is, even if they're good, even if they're really good, the stories about making 420,000 in 60 days are few and far between. Right. I mean, these things take time. And especially these ads. They take time. They take time. You take time to learn to adjust your ads to get your target right. What do you think someone at home, like, whether they hire your agency or another agency, what's the time period that they should really settle in? Like, understandably, they're uncomfortable, they're spending money. But what do you think the spend or the time or whatever the metric is before you really sit down and say, is this working well?

Again, I'll reiterate, I am not an agency. I do not run ads for anybody. I run ads for myself only. But when I was running ads, and as I still continue to consult roofing businesses today, you know, they. They think that because they hired an agency that they should be managing themselves. You, as a CEO are responsible for creating a predictable customer acquisition channel. Because if you have salespeople, you're responsible for making sure those salespeople have leads. Right. And I can already hear door knock Dan saying, oh, they got a door knock. Great. But then you have to understand that you have to hire people who are willing to both be good at sales, run the CRM, do proper follow up on the CRM, be good at estimating, creating quotes, presenting quotes. And they also have to be willing to go knock on doors, which is a customer acquisition process. Now, you can find some of those people, but if they're capable of doing all that, they're also capable of doing a work order to purchase order and sending it to a subcontractor. And you wonder why these guys start their own companies after they work for you for six months and and your contract is same as their contract. They just copy paste their logo in canva on top of your contract. And wonder why good people are hard to find. It's because you're trying to get them to do too much and then you pay them too much of the. You pay them too much to do too much and then they realize that they could just get paid at all to do it themselves. But if you hire an agency, it is still your job to manage them. It is still your job to ask the questions because otherwise, especially when you don't pay enough. If you're paying an agency under $2,000 to run paid traffic for you and they're not doing a good job, that's still your fault because you're buying from the bargain basement. You have to manage them. Now, if you're hiring an agency for 7,500amonth, you can expect that. A portion of your 7,500 goes to a SEO expert, A portion of your money goes to a pay per click expert, a portion of your money goes to an account manager that supports you, and a portion of your money goes to a strategist that works with your account manager and you to develop your strategy and your campaigns. But if you're paying 2,000 once, guess what? You are the SEO expert, you are the strategist. And your account manager is going to give you, if you're lucky, probably give you an hour meeting once a month and they're probably going to dip into your account 15 or 20 minutes a week to just make sure nothing broke.

Yeah, I mean, and that's exactly right. So let's transition for a minute. Roofing business partner. So roofing business partner, as I appreciate it at least having, you know, perused around and asked around is you just have. So first of all, you do an existing CRM audit, which is really cool because I feel like a lot of people don't these days. CRM is kind of where it starts and unfortunately sometimes fails. But a lot of people don't do it. But then by and large you guys just have a ton of courses, whether that's on sales, on talent acquisition, how you, I mean, you even do like some tech stuff. Like, I mean you have one on like mobile device management. I know you did like a company cam thing. So, you know, how do you kind of explain what roofing business partner does to other roofers?

Yeah, we're a business consulting firm that builds technology infrastructure to Operationalize the advice. So a coach, right, would meet with you, tell you to fill out your numbers on a spreadsheet, right. Essentially do fill out their health check. And then they say, ah, according to what I see on the health check, this is what you need to do. And they would say, you should do this and you need to do that. And then you go join their like weekly or monthly group calls where you go through group therapy with a bunch of other failing business owners and try and glean some meaningful advice and then go take action on it. We are positioned as a consulting firm, has worked with, you know, high eight figure roofing companies. Like we're a tech partner of choice, you know, for companies in the 50 to 2 range. Like we were, you know, just this afternoon I was on a call with a $250 million company that's part of a private equity group that has four companies. Two of them are using acculinx, two of them are using jobnimbus, and they're trying to figure out what their platform's going to be. And those are the people that we've helped statistically over the last few years. And just recently, as of November 1st, we kind of said, you know what, there's 200 companies in our total addressable market right now, there's 60,000 in the 3 to 8 million dollars range. And so in that 3 to 8 million dollars range those companies need. And we went to market with a new product that essentially said, let's take a streamlined version of our consulting and help three to eight million dollars contractors deploy the operating frameworks that they need to be successful. And let's minimize that by building the infrastructure in their business so it sticks. Because if the, if you're, the tool that you're using does not matter as much as the process in which you intend for the tool to be used and the tool or the process does not matter as much as getting adoption of that process. And how you get adoption is by thinking through the process back to the tool to make it so that the tool pulls you through the process and therefore is likely to adopt. Not that you try and force the process into a tool that isn't set up for it and then wonder why people don't do it and then say that good people are hard to find. In many ways, we establish a process in our business. We go and we say, hey, from now on we're going to do this and then that or what? Somebody farted. So now we're all going to wear rubber pants. But then if you don't put a system and process in place and a tool to manage. Well, how many rubber pants do we need to order? Who procures the rubber pants? When rubber pants get old, where do they go? How do people put in a request for new rubber pants? Like it doesn't matter what it is, it just means that that's what a business needs to grow, right? And so to grow any business of roofing or otherwise, your job as a CEO is to find a way to get more customers, make them worth more and de risk the business. How we consult them to do that is by first operating on the theory of constraints. Every business has constraints on growth. So if you ask yourself, why couldn't I double the business this year? Like why couldn't I? You will usually uncover constraints. So what I mean is that if you want to run from one place to another place in a faster time, right? Or get more done in that time, you could improve the way that you run, right? That would be your process. You could get better running shoes, that would be a system. But if there is a rubber band tying your ankles together, that's the constraint. Cut the rubber band, the shoes and your running performance doesn't matter. You're going to get a big jump of growth. Once you've removed constraints, then usually business owners try and get new things to do. And that's because when you start a business, new always rewards you with a positive outcome because everything is new. But once you found product market fit, which is usually in roofing, around $3 million, you found out what you do. You do roofing but not siding. You do gutters but not soffit fascia. You do insurance or you don't. You do repairs or you don't. You do metal roofs or you don't. And you sell like this and you market like this and you produce like this and you invoice like that. Then you have, then new starts rewarding you. So then you have to think how you actually grow a business, which is you make sure that you can get the data and it's accurate, which is why you have to have good systems, so then you can do more, better new. So first you find out what is working and just do more of it. So many people want to get AI meeting recorders installed in their cell, in their salespeople's foreheads with rilla voice. Do they even know how to properly present the product? Like have you ever sat them in a room and forced them to role play with each other? Like, do you really need an AI tool? To know that they're just half assing it. No, you don't. So just take what is working and do more of it. Eventually you reach an app, a decreasing rate of return, a graph line that starts to bend, and you get decreasing returns. So then you have to think, can I do it better? So using the postcard example from earlier, if we send 10,000 postcards and we get $1 million of sales, good. We have the data. If we send 20,000, we get $2 million of sales, good. So let's do more. 30,000 postcards. Oh, we didn't get 3 million sales. So asymptote, decreasing rate of return. So then we have to think better. Well, do we need a better offer, better targeting? Should the postcard be 6 by 9 instead of 4 by 5 so it stands out when they grab the envelopes? Does it need better colors? Do we need a better offer, like free ring doorbell? Like, how do we do it better then once better stops working, then we go back to doing new things. And new is always determined by impact. Is it easy to do and has a big impact? Well, then let's do that. Is it easy to do and has a little impact? Maybe do that. Is it hard to do but has a big impact? Sure. Those are usually worthwhile because other people won't do them. If it's hard to do and it has very little impact and we've done it in that order, by the time we get to hard to do with very little impact, we've probably got another constraint to look at. So you go back to constraints more better new. Constraints more better new. And you do that to infinity. But everybody likes to look at their roofing business and say if you ask them, if they get really honest with themselves, say, hey, how's your lead intake? Like, how often do you call people back? Sometimes we call people back, sometimes they're slow. You know, the phone, phone rings, we answer it. But like, if we get a lead, you know, we try and get to it. Oh, okay. And like, what is your lead intake process? Like, how do you like, demonstrate competence over the phone? Well, we don't really just get the phone number, book the appointment. Oh, okay. And like, how often are you on time? Most of the time, but not all the time. Okay, great. Your presentation, is that practice draw rehearsed? Nah, the guys are like doing their best. You know, we do you have a training program? Well, I mean, they follow a guy around for two weeks. Oh, okay. And so when you sell a job, what does your job file? Handoff. Look like, well, we take the sale and we take. Turn that into a material or a purchase order. Okay. Would you, like, communicate, like, the site conditions, the customer concerns, like, the little weird things that they ask for? Nah. Okay. And like, so how's your job site management process? Well, you know, we send the worker purchaser and the guy goes and sets up a ladder, you know, at the end of the day and looks at it. Oh, what does it look like during the day? I don't know. Well, have you looked? No. Well, maybe go look. So just go out there like 2 o' clock and watch it for an hour from up the street. Oh, my God, it's a mess. The tarps are blowing up, the shingles everywhere. Guys got tools all over the place. Jerry cans on his side on the lawn. Ah, okay. So what's your plan to grow the business? I. I think we need more leads. You know what I mean? And it's like, oh, I mean.

And I. Look, I do think that's true. I think people sometimes get. I think. I think sometimes people think that they know the answer, but are they actually stopping and thinking about how they're getting from point A to point B? And I think. I think that's a really, really common, not just in roofing, but business owners altogether. Right. Once you have success with one action, you can fall into this false sense of security that just repeating that action means that you're successful without looking at, like, the various stages of your business. And, you know, I think it's great that you offer kind of that service where you can really create those processes that will actually get adopted. I mean, I think that's huge. All right, so with that said, Adam, what does it mean to you? Because I have to ask to level up.

Well, then I would say the definition of level up is that you're. You are being exposed to the same conditions as before, but you are taking new actions and new responses, and those responses deter. Result in better outcomes.

I love that. And that is right in line with what you guys do. So thank you for being such a great service in the industry, and I appreciate having you. Adam.

Hey, buddy. He was happy to have you here.

I'd like to thank Adam sand for joining us on the show. One of the most interesting takeaways was the difference between just having a process.

And adopting a process, and how without.

Actually reaching that level of adoption, your growth will ultimately stagnate.

Again, I appreciate Adam coming on the show and sharing what he has for us. Follow us on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player.