EP 2: Caught: From The Grip of Addiction to The Hand of Grace w/ Annetta Caldwell

Welcome to the Thirst with Hunger podcast with Pastor Sandy Edwards, where we destroy every obstacle that hinders people from knowing God. Here, you'll be challenged, encouraged, and equipped to pursue his presence, walk in truth, and live with bold faith. Let's dive in.

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Thirst with Hunger podcast. I am your host, Pastor Sandy Edwards. I believe it's very important to share our testimonies and to share how good God has been, how faithful he is. Because not only do they give us the ability to look back over our life, but it also gives other people the ability to see that Jesus can deliver them from anything. It doesn't matter how deep you've been, how deep you've gone. There is no place that you can go that is too far that Jesus himself cannot pull you out of. And so I think it is very important, especially right now with the times that we are living in, to share Testimony, okay, to share testimony. And so today I have with me a very special guest, Miss Annetta Caldwell, and she is the author of the book Caught. And she is a wife, a mother, a dancer, and an author who is passionate about sharing God's faithfulness. She's a Texas native. She trained in dance and ministry with Youth With A Mission, where she met her husband Ryan. And they moved to Virginia, okay, in 2007. And, um, they've raised their 7 children here. And she now teaches others to worship through dance, and she shares her testimony through writing and speaking, helping others find freedom through God's redemptive power. So I'm gonna let Miss Annetta take it away, okay, and share with y'all about this amazing testimony that God has given her.

Yes, my name's Annetta, and I'm now in Virginia, but when I was in Texas, if I take y'all back to how things were, I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, and out of that, I started searching for things to try to fill my heart. And when I got to middle school, I was so desperate to be loved that I tried to be with the cool kids. And one of the guys that was a part of the popular group liked me, and so he was actually saying if I You know, if I went out with him, I'd be able to hang out, you know, with the group. And so I went to a party and he actually came in with— he's like, probably he was like a little over, he's like about 4 foot tall. And he had big bodyguards that always went with him. Like his friends were way over 6 feet. I remember I was sitting on the couch and he came in, the doors opened and he was like, I'm here. And he's like, had these bodyguards with him at the party. And he's like, came to me and he's like, Annetta, will you go out with me? And I was like, yes. And everyone was like, yeah. And I was like, what just happened? And so I went out with him that night. I only made it an hour and I decided this was not what I can do. I wasn't being honest. So I told somebody that I did not like him, but I just kind of used him a little bit to get in the group. Well, that kind of was a mistake because then she went and told him. And they made a big announcement in front of all my, all the people, this popular group. And they were like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she broke up with him. He left all mad. Everybody went outside. I stayed in the house and they're like, I think it's better if you just stay inside. And I fell asleep. I had brought my really nice clothes because I was like trying to impress everybody. When I woke up, my hands and my feet were superglued together. And so was like my clothes. They had superglue all over them. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I was totally mortified. And I went to school that week and everybody was talking about me and they were like, oh my gosh, did you see what she did? Oh my gosh. And so—

But why super glue?

I don't know. I was like, my hands were like super glued and my feet, my feet were super glued together. I was like, how am I gonna get them apart? My mom is like, what in the world? So I didn't have any, like, everybody was mad at me. My friends that were not popular were mad at me because I left them for the popular kids. The popular kids didn't like me. So I was just in this funk. I couldn't, like I said, I was, I was in a dysfunctional home. So I wasn't getting my needs met there. I felt very alone and insecure. And now I was like trying to find it in friends and then it just blows up on me. So As I'm going through this, not too long after this, these 2 girls come to school and they are like kind of like outcasts a little bit. But they told me they didn't care what anyone thought. They're like, oh, we'll accept you into, you know, you could hang out with us. And I started hanging out with them and found out they were heavily involved in cocaine, heroin, witchcraft, like all of it. And I had no idea what I was getting myself into. And I started changing to try to be accepted by them also. So I like dyed my hair jet black. I started skateboarding. I already, I kind of liked skateboarding. I still like skateboarding, but I was trying to become this person that I thought everybody wanted for me to find that love and that acceptance. So when we were hanging out together, they started telling me, about conjuring spirits up and being able to ask things to it. We practiced the Ouija board. We just started opening up the door to these things that a lot of people are like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. But it actually was because it was real. Like, you could— I mean, things were happening. Things would move by themselves and it would speak to us, you know, the spirits. And I was, I was kind of intrigued by it, but it also kind of freaked me out because it was like— This stuff really was happening. And I ended up having a party eventually. I was mortified that nobody was going to show up because of all the drama, but they showed up and a handful of other friends showed up. And before you know it, this new girl shows up and find out that she's actually a witch. I didn't know that. And she came in just trying to be kind of mysterious and cool. And she said, hey, I have this game that we could play. You know, we could do tarot cards. And all of us, you know, I had a little bit of experience with like palm reading And different things that I would go to. So the tarot cards just seemed kind of cool to me. I was like, okay. So she started doing readings on me. And then after we were done, she's like, do you want to go deeper? And I was like, I guess. I was like, okay. She said, well, you need to find a Bible. And I have this book and we're going to rub them together as part of the spell, part of the thing that we're doing. So I put them together. We were doing some crazy stuff and the books actually started moving by themselves. And I was like, oh, good.

Do you want to go deeper? Do you feel like they were testing the waters to see where you would go or how far you would go?

Absolutely. It was an invitation because I remember she got very excited when I said yes. And it was kind of this, okay, then we're going to go to this deeper place. And, you know, I knew a little bit about stuff, but that was, that was definitely diving in deeper. Because now it's involving an actual Bible and a Satanic Bible or book. And, and then I'm seeing stuff that before, even though stuff was moving, like that was like different. Like I could, I felt the fear come in the room. So it was like, you could tell that this was, I was like, I've gotten myself into some trouble. 'Cause right after that, I went into my room and the picture on the wall looked like it was coming alive. And I could see the eyes moving. And another friend came in there and she's like, oh yeah, it looks like it's alive. And so I, I'm telling you, it's like that door, definitely it was already cracked by all the other stuff I was doing. So it wasn't like I did that and that's what fully opened it. It was those little steps I was taking. It was like, okay, I'm going to get through the Ouija board. Okay, I'm going to do these, these little spells over here. I'm going to do this. And it's that invitation, that initial, that, that crack in the door that let the door go open even more. And so then before you know it, now it's starting the snowball effect. Because what happens next is it was another level, another deeper level, but it was with a different group of people.

One thing we know about the enemy, right? The Bible says that he goes to and forth in the earth seeking whom he can devour. Like, he's looking for that open door, looking for that foothold, looking for an opportunity. If we have the legal— the legality on the plate for him, right? It makes it easy for him to just come right in because he's like, oh, you have this legal grounds? I can step on that, right? He's waiting. And that's why I asked the question of like, do you feel like they were kind of testing the waters to see how far you would go? Would you go deeper? Would you— would you go further beyond just the little things that they were kind of presenting before to make it seem like, right, that it wasn't a big deal?

Mm-hmm.

We see that the enemy has these steps. He never comes in with the big bad wolf all at one time, right? It's these little things, these little foxes. He's like, oh, let me, let me get you to dab into that. Let me get you to dabble into this. Let me introduce you to that. And we're going to get to that talking about addiction. When people are introduced to drugs, it's like, let me introduce you to this one level of this type of drug. And then it'll make it easier for you to just lean into this drug and this drug next or this habit next, you know?

Yeah. I mean, that's what I totally agree with that because, um, because I even experimented with alcohol when I was in 5th grade. That's when I started opening the door up in there. And then it, you know, like I already knew. So when I got, by the time I got to 8th grade, I was already starting to, you know, to go back down that path. But yeah, it was definitely, he presents it also, I tell his people, he presents it really pretty, like, oh, this is something fun and exciting and you can, you know, and you'll have this power. And he has this facade that he puts out there. And a lot of people are attracted to that, where especially if you've gone through rejection and if you've also been abused, power is a huge thing for people that have been abused. So you feel powerless. When you're being abused. So then somebody presents something to you, it's like, oh, this is power. But what it is, is just, it's a trap because he presents all this like you're going to have all this power and ultimately you become under his power. Like whatever power you think you have, all of a sudden you're his slave and you have to do whatever he says to do the next thing. You have to obey him. He's like an evil taskmaster. He's like, you got to do this. And, you know, There's no, there's no limit. So it's like you're going into this, you're thinking you're getting free by having this power and you're actually going into a jail cell and getting handcuffs on. And the more you do, the more chains you get put on you. And all of a sudden you go from, I thought this was gonna be something that would gimme freedom and power in my life, to all of a sudden I'm completely entangled in this and more powerless than when I started. So he's, he's so— I don't like it. Yeah.

He's very cunning. Not smarter than God, but he is very sneaky. It makes me think of how the enemy is able to camouflage himself, you know, in the very thing. And like you said, the very things that you always wanted, that you always desired, he's gonna come in and engage you with that. How do you feel your upbringing, in the sense of the environment in your home as a child and even as you were growing into a teenager, and early adult years played a part into how you were engaging in the practice. How was your life growing up and your relationship with the Lord? Had you ever been introduced to Jesus or any of that?

Yeah, well, I grew up in a home where my dad was Muslim, my mom was backslidden Christian. So I don't know where she was in her faith before, but I just know like my grandma was a Christian, but we saw her during the summers. But I didn't have like a really, like we didn't talk about her faith a lot because I was very anti-everything. But my, like I said, my dad was that, my brother was a Buddhist, and we, there was just so much confusion. And I was sexually abused for many years in my home. And so it was not only just the confusion about who God was, it was like all this trauma. And so. I didn't feel like I had a safe place. And I think a lot of that, I was searching for a safe place for me. I would go to friends' houses when I could, and I just wanted to feel like I belonged somewhere. And I kind of stood out as black sheep in the family because everybody else was like really smart. They were able— like, my one brother was an engineer, my dad was an engineer, my sister was like CPA, my other brother knew 10 languages. So it's like, I was like, I can dance. I'm like, I could spin around and dance. But it was not like, it's just like I was the creative one, but there wasn't like a lot of, you know, there's not a lot of value in the world for that. Usually it's based on like how much money you can make or how far you get in your career. And so I think it's just, just all that stuff combined. I was searching really hard to try to find where I fit. And so I definitely think that led me. to where I was a lot more vulnerable whenever I did meet people that were darker, because for some reason, those were the ones that seemed to accept me more. Well, they said they accepted me. Those girls that I talked about, they totally slandered me all the time. They did not treat me well. Well, it's how Satan is, right? He gets you in there. He tries to present like, look, I love you. I'm here for you. And the moment I fully was in their friend group, They started gossiping about me. They started treating me horrible. They'd call me names, all this stuff. And it went from, you know, something that seemed really nice, like kind of like you'd see like an abuser, right? They present themselves as a certain way. And then once they have you and you're committed to them, then the side of them that's dark comes out. And I kept finding that with the friendships that I had. And, and 8th grade, that was all opening up. But when I got to 9th grade, by the time I got to 9th grade, I was full-fledged. Like, I'd already tried to commit suicide. I was wearing all black. I was, you know, wearing— I was total goth, and I was cutting myself. Like, it was just getting worse and worse. And I know a lot of that was with not just the abuse, but with that open door with the witchcraft, because I was open to it because I was like, oh, maybe this will help me. And in 9th grade, there was a guy that approached me that looked like me, because I was bullied a lot. I would just sit in front of a tree and people would throw Coke cans at me and call me a freak. And this one guy is like, hey, I know something that'll make you feel better. You can come with me. And at first I was like, eh, I think I'm okay with the tree. Just stay here. But then he kept coming back and I was like, well, I am pretty depressed. I guess I'll go with you. And that's when the drugs that I started doing were, were Like I actually started stepping into it. I did a few things with my friends from 8th grade, but it wasn't like the hard, like it wasn't a lot of stuff. So I got in with him and then I noticed everybody was wearing black. So there was like a whole group of us and they were all wearing black. Everybody's depressed. Everybody's like, and they're wearing all the black stuff and eyeshadow and everything. They, as we were doing drugs and I was drinking, I started drinking like every day. I started finding alcohol. And just to make it to school, I would be drinking. But the big thing that happened where the enemy presented another door was at a party with them. I went to the party, went to the back room, and there's only a few of us left. And they said, hey, we need somebody to give themselves over to something, right? There's a spirit they were talking about. So there was a table back there and they said, if anybody wants to volunteer, And before they even like finished, I'm like, I'll do it. And they were like, my friend was like, are you sure? And I was like, no, I'll be fine. So they put me on the table and they started doing like the séance over me. And they invited, you know, they invited a spirit in, but I know obviously that it was Satan, you know, committing myself to him. And I got done and I just felt so much fear, but it was like inside of me fear, like, like. Super afraid. And I went outside to catch my breath and it's like, I can almost hear a cackle. And I saw like in the trees and stuff, I'm like, oh my gosh, what have I done? Because it was just fear, all I could see. And you'd think that I would stop right there, but I actually then got introduced to another group of friends. And see, it's that, it's, and it was deeper. Like you said, it started over here with this seemingly smaller stuff. Then the next person, do you want to go deeper? And then the next person, I'm actually fully putting myself on the table. So then I finally get to this friend group and we're doing drugs all the time, every weekend, as much as we can, drinking all the time. And I remember us having a conversation, me and it was a girl and another guy got involved too. But she said, hey, have you heard of white witches? And I was like, oh yeah. She goes, you know, those are the good ones. And I was like, And she's like, you know, there's a difference. So one group of witches are really bad, but the other group of witches, you know, they're good. And so if you want to do it, we can do that. So I thought about it and I was like, well, I mean, if they're the good ones, you know, that's like this lie.

And I love, I love, love, love, love, love that you are bringing this up because in more recent years, there's been a lot of conversation about the good and the bad witch. As if there is a good or godly part to being an active and practicing witch. So I want you to explain for those who are watching and listening what that actually is. I think that's very important to educate God's people on as well, because that is being presented more now. It's being pushed. You're a good witch. You're the good one. And this one is the bad one. And I think that that needs to be explained from someone who has actually walked through it and encountered and actually been around that as well. So, can you explain what that is?

Yeah. So, the white witches, so they try to present it as you're doing good for people. If you look at 2 different types of people that you could have somebody that has like good intentions, good heart, whatever, and then the other one is just so evil, right? Those are the ones that do the really bad stuff. I can't remember all the details of it, but I do know both require, as far as I know, a blood oath. So that's why she's told me, even as a white witch, you had to do a blood oath to be— to become one. So that's a common thing, is they're always— blood is always involved with witchcraft, which is so wild because who shed their blood, right? So Satan's always trying To copycat. So the blood of Jesus is so strong, and he's so angry that Jesus spilled his blood for us, right? So he's always trying to be in control. He's like, oh, so it's about the blood of animals. We have to sacrifice animals. We have to sacrifice people. We have to sacrifice this to get the blood because there's life in the blood, right? So when I, when I said yes to this, it was That part of me that knew it was wrong. But when you present it in a pretty package, which is all they're doing, a white witch versus a black witch, all they're doing is presenting evil with a pretty package. So this is the pretty package over here. Satan doesn't come at you like full-blown, because if he did, a lot of people would run away. But he presents it, oh, this is something that actually can help people. And I say that also because I talked to somebody that was actually confronted trying to get them into a white witch, right, as a Christian. And he came to her and he said, hey, do you want to help people? Because my wife is a, you know, a witch and she helps people. And I know that you like helping people. So if you want to go and help a ton of people, if you could come and be with her and hear what she has to say, she almost got swayed into it. Because it was presented as— what he does is he finds out what your weakness is, and then he comes and presents it in that way. So for me, it wasn't as much as we can do good for people. This is my acceptance. I'm going to be a part of a group. I'll do whatever it takes to be a part of this friend group. And the deeper the connection, the better, because I was hurting from such a lack of connection, such a hurt from a young age that I was like, Man, if we can be blood sisters, blood brother, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you even, it seems innocent, right? You know, when you, you know, you flick your little fingers and you say, we're going to be blood sisters and brothers. It's actually not good. That kind of stuff is an open door because it's always about the blood. I remember we decided to do it. We were in her room and I said, what do we have to do? She says, we all have to cut, we have to cut each other and we have to drink each other's blood. So we actually physically cut each other with a knife blade, and all of us committed ourselves to be witches. And we did the spells, we did all the stuff to kind of to commit ourselves fully to this, right? It was so dark. And I was, I mean, just the thought of it is just like, oh, I mean, I shared my testimony and I was starting to cry thinking about it because you'd think right there it would stop. But what happened Is about a week or two later, I was out with my friends that we had done this blood oath with, right? I find a stranger on the side of, on the side of the street, and I asked him if I could drink his blood. I didn't know him, but you know what he said? He said, sure. And he cut himself. He pulled out a knife, and I drank his blood on the spot. Now, what is crazy is multiple things is I think looking back, he was a warlock. And so that's why he didn't mind. So you're attracted sometimes to the same things that are in you or on you and somebody else. And so I believe he, he was heavily involved in, in, in, you know, witchcraft. And I really think he was a warlock. So doing that was even like tying me to him. So like I said, those little doors, they lead to these bigger things. When I started this, I never thought that I would end up over here where I was actually drinking blood from people and committing myself to Satan. So it really is slippery slope. You start opening these doors and this is the end result, is, is getting right here.

I believe that that's so important to, to share because in my line of work, God gave me a revelation very early on is how there's this thought that if we just let the rejection or we let the wounds, and if we just leave it alone, just rest in the victory of the cross, and it'll eventually just go away. But I'm telling you, one of the revelations God really gave me was that the enemy feasts. He feasts on these things. That's like serving him a plate.

Yeah.

When you are, as a Christian, are walking around Even if you're not a Christian and you're walking around with rejection in your heart, hate, bitterness, resentment, you are putting yourself on a plate to serve yourself to the enemy because there is something that is going to be introduced to you or someone's going to come into your life who is sent by the enemy to feast on those things and introduce you so that you will become an agent of his.

Mm-hmm.

I love that you brought up the point about how the enemy loves to copy. He loves everything that God's kingdom stands for, like belonging. You want to be a part of a family, not realizing that you already have one, right? And then knowing who you are. He tricks you into thinking you got to go search for your identity here, there, and everywhere else, not knowing that God already gave you one and he created you with one. You see how, like, he, he subtly tries to make us think that we're missing? There's something that's missing. You don't have it. You'll never belong. You'll never be. You're not this. You're not that. Little do we know, because, you know, it's the ignorance in us because we haven't been taught that we already have an identity. We don't have to search for it.

Exactly.

It's already in us. We were created with it, right? And the same goes for our purpose, what you talked about when it comes to power, how a person who has struggled with rejection and resentment and been abused feels powerful when they are given a position. The enemy feasts on that too, and he makes you think that your purpose is going to be found in doing XYZ. And God is just like, no, I already gave you one. You just need to ask me, you know, about it. And I think that is so important. It's so important, especially right now where we see it in the news, where people are struggling with their mental health. Not making an excuse for murder, right? Not making an excuse for the sin. But if you get down to the root of why people are responding the way that they are, a lot of it has to do with issues within their heart that has not been dealt with.

Mm-hmm.

And because it hasn't been dealt with, a demonic spirit of some kind has come in and said, okay, you've given me legal grounds. Now I'm going to turn that hate into murder. And hate— the murder doesn't always show up in the form of let me go kill someone with a weapon or a knife or anything. It can also show up in the form of how we use, you know, our mouth.

Mm-hmm.

And what we say to people. So if you got resentment and hate in your heart and jealousy and bitterness as a result of being abused and it hasn't been dealt with, You will go exercise that in other ways, right?

Exactly.

And I look at how, you know, I love this because the enemy really sought and came after the boldness God always intended for you to have, right? So here it is, you're out with your friends at the time, right? You're out with these people you have made this sacrifice with, and you are so bold. Like, I, I want Everyone who's listening to this to really zone in on this part. You are so bold, like bold. I mean, no shame, no anything. And you, you say to this man, can I drink your blood? You didn't give him no prerequisite. You didn't go down the list and explain yourself to him. You didn't explain why you wanted to drink his blood. You didn't say any of that. You just directly— asked him.

Wow, I've never thought about it like that.

You didn't have no shame. But do you see how when we have open doors to the enemy and his kingdom and all of that stuff that he is doing and working together for things that are not for our good, right? Because we know God works all things for our good. The enemy does the opposite. It's for evil. He meant it for evil. Right? So you're so bold and you have no shame, but then like he, he uses that for you to be an agent to go further and deeper into those things, right? And so we're going to talk about that a little later as you share, you know, how you came to found Jesus and all of that and where you are now. But I really want us to, to focus on how bold You were when you went outside to go ask that man if you could drink his blood. There was no rejection and no fear on you in that moment.

There wasn't. No, I went straight for it. Yeah. And I wanted to bring this up because there's one person that keeps going through my head that was there during this time, this older guy, because I was still a teenager and he was like in his 30s. And he was actually constantly coming to me and being super nice. And he's like, have you tried crystals? And he started trying to present, you know, crystals and all this stuff. And he talked really sweet and soft and calm. And it's almost like the enemy's like, here's a, like, when people try to be with somebody a lot older, a lot of times there's like a father issue or a mother issue. So he was almost like, in a weird way, like a father figure. And he was like pursuing me constantly. But I remember him taking me to stores and telling me all this stuff. And I remember later when I told him I didn't want to hang out anymore, and I actually found him. I forgot about this in my story, but when I became a Christian, I actually saw him, and I told him I became a Christian, and he was so angry, and he's like, I can't believe you did that. And he was like, you did what? And I was like, okay. But that was like later on after I became a Christian that I saw him at one of the bus stops that I was at, and I was like, that is so interesting. Like, he was totally an agent from the enemy. Yeah. And the enemy just felt so mad that he lost. So after this happened with this guy, there was like a couple other things that happened that I did that was kind of crazy. Another guy came to me and he almost had me jump off the bridge, the Austin Bridge, one of the big ones. And he was telling me, if you jump off this bridge, you'll be totally fine. And I was like, I'm not sure that's true. He's like, you're a good swimmer. I was like, Yeah. He goes, yeah, just jump. You'll be fine. And so he was so like that other guy's telling you about, he's so like calm and cunning about it that I actually started climbing up on the side of the bridge. And right when I was fixing to jump, my friend who I, you know, who did the blood thing with, she actually came up and she's like, get off the bridge. What are you doing? And she was yelling at him and she put me behind her and she was like, stay away from her. So I was like, God was already putting people to protect me, but it's just the enemy was constantly still trying to take me out. And everyone around me was saying that I had a problem with drinking and using drugs. And this guy at school was like, hey, can I talk to you? And I was like, okay. And he's like, so it seems like you might have a problem with drinking and drugs. And I was like, what? Not me. I don't have an issue. And he's like, well, you know, I used to struggle, but I started going to AA and NA, and I'd love for you to come with me. And I was like, No, I'm good. I don't need to. And it must have been the Holy Spirit really pressing on him to talk to me because he's like, well, how about you come to a party with me? And I was like, well, okay, you know, I'm always up for a party. And he picked my friend and me up and we got in the back of his pickup and him and his friend drove us and they stopped downtown. And my friend and I were like, oh my gosh, these are like psychos. Why did we go? And we get out of the car and he's like, hey, we want you to go to an AA meeting with us. And I was like, what? So he actually brought us down the street from there. And I was totally mad. I, you know, I got outta the truck and I'm like, I can't believe you did that. And I was screaming at him. He's like, I'm sorry. And so I left just totally furious that anybody would think I had a problem. So I started down this path of trying to get sober. And I was like, you know what? I can get sober cuz people think I have a problem. And everybody started talking to me and saying, Nada, you seem really mean when you're not drinking. And using drugs. So maybe you should go back to it because we don't like how you are. You're just so angry and irritable. And so I, I was like, I gotta stay sober, you know? And so I tried off and on and it wasn't working. And so eventually my friends that really wanted me to go back to it were like, hey, you know, why don't you just do it one more time and we'll be with you? And my friend was like, I'll hold your hand. You won't have to worry. And she had a party because all this stuff happens at parties for me, right? So she Says, this guy has this new drug, you know, we hear really good things about it. We don't know him or exactly what it is, but I think, I think it'll be great. And we get there and we all take it. My friend is laughing on the floor, forgets that I exist, and I'm over here freaking out just with the drugs again because I hated them, but I loved them at the same time. So I'm over here realizing that the high is going longer than it should. I tell my friends and they're like, Yeah, that doesn't seem normal. We're going on 24 hours. I'm still high. And then we go into like 48 hours. I'm still seeing stuff. I'm still high. And they told me to go home and I go home, but then I decide going on day 3, I was like, I'm gonna go skateboard downtown Austin. 'Cause that makes sense. I'm just gonna go high, weave through the traffic. And I did that. I weaved through the traffic. Totally still high. And I stop at one place, and I'm sitting here kind of freaking out going, I don't know if I'm ever going to get sober. Like, I'm still seeing stuff. I'm still struggling. And I look up in the sky and I say, God, if you're real, I need you to help me, because I was getting very desperate. Because you're high going on 3 days, you don't know if you're ever going to come back, you know? And right when I prayed that, I looked down and I was at that same spot the guy took me to. Didn't even realize it. And I look over here and there's the AA meeting. So I get my skateboard, my little teenage self, get in there and I say, I, I need help. And they said, well, you've come to the right place. They let me stay in there and they actually, somebody from there drove me home. And that started me on the path of going to AA. And while I was going to AA and I finally admitted I had a problem with drugs and alcohol. Then I prayed. I was like, God, if you're real, I need you to help me get sober, all this stuff. And then I eventually, I was like, I wanna know who you really are. 'Cause there's like so many opinions of who God is, right? You can, somebody's like, it could be a doorknob. Put your faith in this. Put your faith in the stars. And I'm like, a doorknob? I was like, I can't put my faith in a doorknob. And I really prayed that God would just show me. And I also prayed for a sponsor. And this lady shows up at one of the meetings and she is glowing. Everything that comes out of her mouth is just so peaceful. Like it's just oozing off of her. And I'm like, that's my sponsor. I need her to be my sponsor. Eventually she accepted and we start working through the steps and she accepted me as, as, you know, being her sponsee after a little while. She didn't think I was going to make it because I was coming in trembling and detoxing and I was not doing well. And so when she did accept me and we were working through the steps, I was telling her all my fears. And I'm telling you, you write down stuff, but I was writing pages and pages of stuff because you're supposed to write all the stuff that happens in your life, right? And she said, Annetta, and she looked at me, she goes, I think the only thing, the only thing that's going to set you free from all this fear is Jesus. And she said His name. And I was like, huh? And she goes, She tells me that, and I still have all these walls up, right? So I'm like, I don't know if that's who God is. And so instead of just saying, okay, I'll accept Jesus, I'm like, well, I'll think about it. And I start praying still, my God, show me who you are. I want to know who you are and if this is real or not, because I didn't want to be duped. I didn't want it to be like a false god or like something that's not really him. I'm still praying. And I ride the bus everywhere. And so I have like a part-time job, even in high school, that my mom got me. And I ride the bus and this lady approaches me. She's wearing all white and she has long blonde hair. And she was like, hey, have you heard about Jesus? And she starts talking to me. And what's really weird is nobody notices her. Nobody, you know, like somebody gets on the bus and they look crazy, at least people will look. Nobody even paused. Like, it's almost like, like she wasn't there. Like, I was like, and I would talk to her and I'm like looking around like, hey guys, there's this crazy lady talking to me. So she shares, you know, the gospel and I go, I'll think about it. I don't know if that's, you know, God or not. So she, she's like, okay, keep thinking about it. So she gets off the bus and I'm still praying like, God, show me who you are. I want to know if this is really you. And my sponsor's still talking to me, other people. And then I get on the bus again. It might have been like another week later. This same lady comes to me with her long white dress and blonde hair. She goes, hey, have you been thinking about if you're going to accept Jesus? And, you know, and she starts sharing all these good things about him. I'm like, I don't know. I'm still thinking about it. She's like, okay. So she gets off the bus and I'm still processing. My family, like I said, my family's not very happy about this, about me getting sober because I was kind of wild and fun when I was sober. And all of a sudden I'm like serious and they don't like it. And I'm like at this point where it's like, I need to know if this is really God. So some point in all of this, I decide in the middle of a parking lot, in the middle of the night, after one of the AA meetings, I go over there and I'm like, you know what? I think this is really who God is. And my eyes are open. And I was like, I'm going to do it right here in the parking lot. So I get on my knees in the parking lot and I'm like, Jesus, you are real. I accept that you really are the Son of God, that you died on the cross and you rose again, and that you want to live in my heart. And I ask you to live in my heart, give me a fresh start. And I prayed this very honest, raw prayer, right? And just got on my knees praying this. And I looked up and the clouds started to part. The moon was there. And I just remember it's very distinct. And I was like, whoa, okay, that was interesting. And I get up from there and I'm like, okay, I accepted Jesus, you know, I did it. And I tell my sponsor and she's like, yeah, I can't believe you did it. That's awesome. And she's like, you can start coming to our meetings. So I have all this excitement about accepting Jesus and I get on the bus again. And that same lady, third time, she comes over to me and she goes, Hi. She goes, hey. And I go, hey, guess what? I accepted Jesus. And she was like, that makes me so happy. I'm so excited for you. And I'm like, thank you. She gave me a Bible and she's like, you need to read these verses every day. You need to have quiet times. And then I'm like, thank you. And she gets off the bus and I never see her again. I saw her 3 times. And I was like, oh my gosh, God, I was so stubborn. It took all these people. And an angel, like, 2 different times. And then the 3rd time she knows, because I didn't know. I was like, I don't know if this is real. Like, I wanted— I struggled so much to trust. So it's like God had— it's like he's having to go overboard with me to say, hey, I'm good. I have good plans for you. This abuse you've gone through wasn't me. This over here wasn't me. All these people that have been trying to take you out, that's not me. This is me. Like the good things, like the, if there's anything good, it's from me. He's the one that got me sober. He's the one that brought me the sponsor. He's all these things and he showing himself. And so after I accepted him, I got baptized not too much longer after that. And then I had to separate myself. And this is really hard, but I had to accept, separate myself from my friends. And that's because every time I went with them, I always got back into the drugs. I always got back into the dark things. And so I was like, I can't do this anymore. And so that was very hard because I ended up having only like old people as friends. Like, you're just like a little kid and I'm like, hey guys. And he started replenishing friends though. So as I was going through high school, he started opening doors. I actually left the high school I was at and went to a new high school to restart. And I basically had to learn everything and take tests and all this to pass. In one year, all the stuff that I hadn't done, cuz I came to school high all the time. I was failing everything. And so, um, I had to make, I had to go remedial classes and everything. But then God gave me the grace to graduate high school as a, you know, as a brand new Christian. And then it was like, oh my gosh, I got a new start. And that then other stuff started happening after that. That was, that was good. But yeah, that was up to the Christian point.

Listen, that's so powerful. Now I want to backtrack because there's a few things that you said that were so powerful, and I think it's very important to highlight how God and Jesus, the Holy Spirit, all encounter us through different methods, right? And I have this thing that I always tell people all of the time, is that God deals with us, each of us Independently, how he sees fit, right? So your journey as to how you became sober will look different from another person who's a Christian now that becomes sober, right? How God decides to take us through those journeys is up to him.

Mm-hmm.

And I love the beautiful parts of your testimony that include Jesus, and I want to just highlight one of them, which is that God knew That in order for you to meet him, to realize who he is, and to even learn who he desires to be for you and to you, he knew that you needed to have a sober mind. And so if you couldn't get off of the drugs, if you couldn't become sober and stop drinking and all of those things, he wasn't going to be able to pierce through because those things still had a hold on you.

Right.

The scripture that keeps coming to my mind as you were talking was Romans 10:17. And in the New Living Translation, it said, So faith comes from hearing, that is hearing the good news about Christ. About Christ. So here it is, right? You're trying to get sober.

Yeah.

Jesus is trying to, you know, he's like, all right, I, I got her right where I want her. I'm gonna sponsor, I'm gonna have these, these two dudes that she gonna get mad at them if they do this, but God used it. Right, you know, you got mad, and you should have, you know, in your humanity, you should have gotten mad. But I look at how God in his nature was step by step trying to introduce you to him.

Mm-hmm.

And he cares so much about you that he didn't care about how deep you were in the witchcraft. He didn't care about the oaths that you made. He didn't care about any sacrifices, blood sacrifices, any of that stuff. He was like, I don't care about any of that. What I'm after is her heart. What I'm after is introducing her to me.

Mm-hmm.

Because she has grown up in this confusion, right? Where it's not— you're not really sure what to follow. There's no presence of God surrounding your upbringing or anything. I'm gonna reach over all of that. What I'm after is her heart, because if I can get her mind sober, she can hear from me.

Yeah.

So notice the, the step in the process, to those of you who are listening, how, how Jesus is really intentional. Yeah, about making sure that he reaches us where we are. He's not interested in trying to make you seem like the perfect Christian. He's not interested in trying to act as if none of the things that you were engaged in didn't affect you. What he's after is your heart, because if he can get in there and pierce your heart and allow you to hear and to see from him—

Mm-hmm.

These late— this lady on the bus, like, that was purely God showing up in the form of a person who knew how to speak and appeal to your curiosity. And I find it not strange that the same way the enemy appealed to your curiosity about wanting to belong Here it is, God shows up and appeals to your curiosity of wanting to get out. So the same way that you are being brought into witchcraft through curiosity, wanting to belong, dealing with all of the things that the enemy appealed to, God took all of that to save you. The Bible doesn't just say that they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony.

Mm-hmm.

It says after that, And they love not their own lives unto death. So you literally were in a moment where you were willing to give it all up. You're like, look, I'm out here and I've been being pursued by you, and I know enough to know that this really might be you, and I'm gonna give you a chance. I'm gonna give you the opportunity to show and reveal yourself to me. You weren't caught up in this moment of like God, look at how bad I was, right? Look at, look at all of the things that I did, all the things that I said, all the things that I participated in. How, how could you love me? And I'm sure that came later, you know.

Mm-hmm.

But in that moment where you made a decision to follow Jesus, you accepted him into your heart, you made him Lord of your life, it was as if none of that even mattered. And you're just like, I know that if I want to live, I'm gonna have to live with you.

Exactly.

I'm gonna have to live with you. That's the only way I'm gonna live because I done tried everything else.

Exactly.

Yes, but if I'm gonna live, I'm gonna live with you. I love that. The same way the enemy came in and tried to steal, kill, and destroy It's the same way God rescued, redeemed, and delivered. That's so powerful.

It's wild because, I mean, even when I tell my story, I don't always think of how it all correlates. But really, even the boldness thing, when you said that, I was like, oh my gosh, because I was bold going to him. But then I— going to that guy, right? But then I was also bold going to Jesus in the middle of the parking lot, getting on my knees, right? Like, so—

Period. Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. But that's what I'm saying. That's what I love is that you don't have the testimony of everything. Like, I did so many dark things and I don't know how to confess that I have a need for a Savior because right now I've never met him. Don't know anything about him except for what I've been told, you know, in these short amount of time. I only know that. And I love that God, like I said, he met you. Exactly where you were. He wasn't expecting you to have answers for A, B, C, and D. He just wanted you. He wanted you. He wanted to show you his love. He wanted to, to come in and address those things that, that were an open door to that. And I love how everything he did from that moment was so intentional. Because you wouldn't have received it In a different way.

Oh no.

If it was so flamboyant with somebody coming and yelling at you with a Bible and saying, hey, you need to follow Jesus, repent for your sins, come out of witchcraft, you know, that, that's appropriate with certain things. But I love how God knew how you needed to receive him. He knew it. He knew that if he came to you being loud, bold, and all that other stuff, you wouldn't have received it. You would have ran.

Yeah.

You would have, because the way that you were seduced into witchcraft wasn't that way. And keep reiterating this, but I love how God saved you the same way that you were seduced into darkness. That's so important to highlight. He knew exactly your appetite, what you needed, how you needed to feel fulfilled, all the things you didn't have, and he showed up as all of that in one. In one moment.

I mean, it's true because I think, wow, you have me thinking about it because it really— he did. I was shown love like by my sponsor. And then that, I really believe it was an angel on the bus. She came at me not like, I can't believe you're, you know, doing this or whatever. She was like, hey, have you thought about Jesus? Like she was so soft and so gentle. And that's what I needed. Because I was with the walls that I put up and the rebellion I had, I would have fought back. And there were people that had talked to me about stuff somewhere in there. And I was angry, like when they would say stuff, or if they were like harsh with me, I was like, whatever, you know, I don't, you know, you're living in sin. Okay. Like I, it really didn't, I didn't recognize that as Jesus, right? Like the real God. It just, it just got me like, you know, flustered and angry. So when he came to me that way, it was like, I can trust him, right? Because you can't trust somebody that's coming at you with a bulldozer. And, you know, exactly.

And that's why I said, um, I think it's very important for— and this is really what I want to say to those of you who are listening that are already Christians and you have a desire to evangelize to people who are deep within witchcraft, or you are doing deliverance on people who are oppressed by demons and things like that, it's very important to discern.

Yeah.

Like, to have the Holy Spirit on the inside of you, because you can be a Christian and not have the Holy Spirit. Like, it's very important to have a very close relationship with the Holy Spirit on the inside, and not just to be something you know in theory, right? Where we say we know the Holy Spirit, it's like, no, Does he live on the inside of you?

Yeah.

Because if you are a practicing Christian and you desire to evangelize to people, you must be strategic just like Jesus was. He did not handle everyone the same way, right? There were some people that he was a fire ablaze, and let me tell you— and then there are some people where he was like, you know, he told the woman that they were gonna stone to death Go and sin no more. He didn't just sit there and go down the list about all the men she slept with, right?

Right.

It was like, I done dealt with the accuser. They not here anymore. Now go and just don't sin. Don't do this no more, right? Some people may see that in theory as, oh, he making an excuse why he didn't go into details about all the stuff that she did. And it's like, because that didn't matter in that moment. Like, it didn't matter. It was like, I'm after her, because what y'all was about to do was, was kill her for something that you are also guilty of.

Right.

You know, I look at that, at what Jesus did in that moment with the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, and they were ready to stone her to death. He knew, y'all just as guilty. You're just as guilty as this woman if you want to stone her. Not on my watch, right? Not, not on my watch. It's not happening. And so we see the difference between what he did with this woman and then what he did with other people in scripture. It was not handled the same way. He discerned what was appropriate for the moment, right?

Right.

So if we're gonna evangelize and we're going to walk people through deliverance, or even if we're going to preach the gospel and tell people the truth, We must know and be able to discern what's appropriate for what moment we're in, because everybody isn't the same. And I think that that's, that's such an important takeaway that we can have from your testimony, which is that the way God may have saved you when you were practicing witchcraft and all of these things, it may look different, right, for someone else. It doesn't mean that Jesus didn't save them.

Right.

It doesn't mean that God didn't heal them, that God didn't deliver them. And if we can get out of this religious spirit mindset, right, which is that it has to be done this way— you gotta go to church in order for Jesus to save you, you need to stand at the altar and let everybody know all the things that you did for you to be saved— and it's like, that— no, like, no, it doesn't have to be done that way.

Exactly.

God bless you if it did, but it does not have to be done that way. And I love that yours is Jesus met you specifically.

Yeah.

Where you were in that moment. He didn't ask for anybody's permission. He didn't ask people how they would have felt about you getting saved. He didn't ask for anybody's authority or their yes or no about whether you are even qualified to be one of his children.

Right.

He knew that, that she's my daughter and I'm coming to save her, period.

Yeah.

And I'm not gonna care about how it will look. Now, Jesus doesn't consider his reputation before he saves us, right? Right. He's not concerned about how it will look to other people once he saves us either. He's, he's not considering anything of that sort. And so I think that that's so powerful because normally we hear the testimonies of, um, I went to church and, you know, I stood at the altar and I confessed my sins and all of that. And that is great. I'm not saying that that's not powerful either, right? But I think right now where we are as a people in the world, in the body of Christ, is important to know that Jesus still is the one who will encounter people.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, there are people every day who get saved in their cars and nobody will— right? People who get saved every day just by sitting outside wherever they are, and no one was present. It was just Jesus who showed up for them. And so I love that defining moment in your testimony. And so I want you to share with us, you know, where you are now, like How do you feel now being on the other side of all of that? Are there any things that may have come up that God is addressing now that maybe He didn't address when you got saved or leading up to that moment?

Right now, I'd say I'm in a really healthy spot with the Lord. That's how I would describe it. I had to go through a lot of surgery spiritually. I went through a lot of counseling, but also deliverance about 2 and a half, almost 3 years ago. And I think the big thing is that I thought at first, like, everything was gonna— everything's gonna go away. You become a Christian and life is just, you know, everything is good. And to be honest, it got worse for a little while because— I was no longer putting a Band-Aid and masking my feelings, masking the things that I was running from. And that's not to scare people off from getting saved, but if you have a wound on your arm or leg and you just keep covering it with other stuff, it gets infected. And if you don't deal with that infection, it starts growing and growing. And what God had to do was to take the Band-Aid off, and as painful as it was, He had to apply healing stuff to it that made it hurt more.

Wow.

At first, because no longer am I trying to hide my pain. All of a sudden I'm having to deal with it. And that's the hardest thing a lot of time for addicts, or even just, you can medicate with, with whatever, you know, witchcraft. You can medicate with food, you can medicate with sex, any, like all of that stuff you can medicate instead of looking at what really happened. So he had to take me through that of getting, getting healed, looking at the memories, Looking at the things that I was so scared of, that I had so much shame about. And so He had to deliver me from shame. That was my biggest thing. And then the fear of what people thought of me. I grew up with our family wanting to make everyone think that we were a perfect middle-class family, like nothing was happening over here. And the truth was, I was like festering. There was all this stuff and it wasn't being dealt with. So He had, and I'm not saying all was bad. I forgave my faux parents and everything, and there were some good things that were there too. So I don't wanna repaint it like it's all bad. Like I had some really good memories growing up also. But anyway, so he got me through this process of dealing with things as I could handle it. So where I'm at right now, 5 years ago, I would've been running. I was petrified of speaking in front of people. I did not wanna tell my testimony. I wanted to pretend I grew up in the church. So I just didn't want people to know my past. Because if you knew my past, I was afraid you would what? Reject me. And I already went through enough rejection. I didn't want to be rejected for people finding out what I did. But God's like, set me free from that fear of man and set me free from all these things so that I could start going, hey, this is where I was. This is what I did. But this is what God did when I gave Him control. When I surrendered to Him, this is what He can do. So now it's kind of like a billboard and go, hey, here's who I was. Now here's who I am. How I got from here to here is only Jesus and his healing presence and me being willing to surrender. And so the sooner you can learn to surrender, the sooner you can get to the places he has for you. But if you're holding on tight and you're like, I don't want to let this go, I don't want to let go of this thing over here that's covering these wounds and everything. Then it's going to take longer for your healing and to be where He has— where the dreams and desires that He has for you can't be fulfilled as long as you're holding on to your past. So now I share my testimony and I do it with freedom. Like, there's no more shame with it. And people might judge me, but I don't care because it's not their story. It's my story with Him, and He gets all the glory for it. So even if there is judgment, He showed me a long time ago, the more you trust my love, the less you care about their stickers. It's that Wemick book, The Wooden People. I don't know if you ever read that, but it's all that, like, they put stickers on each other if they were doing good. And so the stars would go on the people that could do flips and they did all these things and they'd put the dots if they couldn't do well. And I always felt I had a ton of dots on me. So he had to get me to the point where I trusted him and his love. So these dots started falling off of me. And then when people tried to give me stickers, He's like, the more you trust my love, the less you care about it. So then they start falling off. And so that's kind of where he's getting me to this point. Like, I've put so much out there that I can't be consumed with what people think because either people are going to love me or they're going to hate me, but I can't control it. And so I don't have to be a slave to popularity anymore because that's where, that's where I was a slave when I was a kid. And even up until a few years ago. If you don't like me, my life is gone. It's like, no, if you don't like me, that's okay. God made us all different, and you might not be my cup of tea. I might not be yours, but I'm valuable and I'm worthwhile because I belong to Him. And He says, this is your identity. You're a daughter of the King. You're pure. You're a princess, my Esther. You're my, you know, I love you. I have good plans for you. So as I get that identity, then I can be more free to do what He's called me to. And so now that's what I love sharing with people, that you can be free. I dance at church every Sunday, and I look like a crazy woman. And I go dancing like David because that's what He's called me to do. And I'll run through those aisles, but I run through them because He tells me to. But not because— I mean, yes, I'm excited that I got saved, but it's about obedience too, because He'll be like, run through there. And that's one of the ways that He got me over my fear of man, because I, all of a sudden, I'm running in front of people and they're like— What is she doing? That's so crazy. Yes.

And so that's what I was— I was gonna bring us back full circle into this moment. You were so bold when you went to that man and asked him, could you drink his blood? And now, do you see the difference between boldness while you're in rebellion versus boldness in Christ? Oh, do you see the difference?

I do. Well, there's 2 things. It's not all about me anymore. And the other thing is that my desire is to please Jesus and not to please Satan. So it's pretty, pretty simple. I was in the kingdom of darkness and I wanted to please the master there. And now I'm in the kingdom of light and I want to please my master here. And this one is a Father and not a taskmaster. So they're very different. So my motivation comes more, I want to be close to Jesus. Don't The other one is I was so afraid of the enemy. So it's like I wanted to do, like, make sure I don't get hurt, right? I don't have something bad happen to me. Over here, it's love. And the more you obey Him, the closer you feel to Him. And then you feel His pleasure and you feel your heart gets filled with all these good things. And so the boldness I have now is because I want to be close to Him. So it's that motivation is totally different versus fear. It's like a total opposite, opposite feeling, opposite motivation than before.

Yeah, the motives are different. And I think that that's important to highlight because some issues are not, not directly, again, very, very in your face and direct because God is very serious about motives, the intent behind Why we're doing something, because we focus on the what, or the surface level things that are happening. But what is motivating? What is the root of why I am doing this? What is the root as to why I'm saying this?

Yeah.

You know, and I think that's very important that God— God is the one who x-rays our motives. In The Message version, there's a scripture that says God x-rays motives. And I thought that that was so cool because I'm like, I've been in the hospital before and gotten an X-ray done.

Right.

And when you get an X-ray done, you really see, like, you know, like all the things. You see every bone. You see it all.

Yeah.

I love how we discussed this when I met you at the Sunrise Festival. But when someone— when someone looks at the book cover for your book, right, they may be like, I'ma stay away. I'm not gonna touch it. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm gonna run because I don't know what that is, but I know it's— God's not involved. But if you don't have discernment, again, or depending on where you are in your relationship with God, you may think that everything is the devil because you have been taught that things that look a certain way are always the enemy, right?

Okay, so like, we fixed our camera so you can see it's not backwards. So God had been telling me for a while that he wanted me to write the book. And about a year ago, it just felt like the right time. And it was crazy because I would just tell people, I'm going to write a book by the end of the year. And this was like in August of last year. So I was giving myself until December 31st. First copy of this was actually done December 31st. And it actually was shipped to me that day. And God was just showing me. Look, this is me. But I just felt like he wanted me to get the message out there about the darkness being like this big, right, that I was in, that it doesn't matter. Like, he can pull you out. He doesn't look at whatever I've done and said, oh, well, that person's qualified. That person's disqualified. Oh, they did too much. Oh, they did, you know, oh no, that person's fine because they've been in church for a while. Like, he wanted the message to be out there so it's like a wide net. So you can just be like, You know, whatever excuses people have, it's like, no, God wants you right now, right where you're at. Like you said earlier, you could be in your car, you could be in a parking lot, and God could meet you right there because he's always right there wanting to meet us, right? He's right there knocking on our door. And so the book, I mean, the book writing this right here with the, well, the picture, it's supposed to be like Jesus and Satan fighting over me, like as that little girl. And I wanted it to be a little girl because And in the white dress, because He wants— He wanted me to be redeemed. He wanted me to be who He created me to be, which is pure, and restoring my childhood and showing, like, even with this, it was like I was caught by the enemy, but now I'm caught by the Holy Spirit, by Jesus. And so all— I just want it to be a book that brings hope to people. So even if they're stuck in addiction, that they— and I also did this book on purpose this way. So that people that are actively in witchcraft, or they're actively in addiction, or they're just attracted to horror, that they would read it not knowing that it's a Christian book. I only have one little spot in the beginning that says, I'm thankful for Jesus, but you really don't even see that. And somebody even put on my book reviews, it's like, I didn't know this was a religious book. And I'm like, oh, they said it was well written. But I was like, ooh, that's putting seeds there because It's kind of like God going incognito and saying, hey, why don't you read this book? And then it starts telling about how you can get set free, how you can get saved, all these things, and then seeing God's faithfulness when you give Him a chance. And so that's kind of the whole theme with the book. And so when I share, I want people to have hope after reading my book, but also to get everybody to read it that might normally never step into a church building. Or they might not ever come. They might not ever go into any place that looks religious or looks like this is a good place that you can learn about God. They might never step in that building. But if I can say, hey, this is who God is and He loves you, give Him a try, there's a chance that that person will, will for one second stop and say, okay, God, if You're real, I need help, like I did on that skateboard. And then you have no idea how far God can go with that person. God's like, he has a purpose for each person. Like you said, like everybody's different.

And I think, like I said, I think that that's so important because the same way God saves us is what he will use to save others. And that's why I believe testimonies such as this one that you have is so important, because when we share them, that's Jesus using us as vessels, as a door To save others.

Yeah.

And it's like the same way he saved you, like he was very intentional on saving you the same way that you were drawn into darkness. And so for other people who are not saved, who are not Christians, who will see that book cover, Jesus is going to save them the same exact way. Different method, you know, and a different avenue, but the same Jesus. The principle is the same. Jesus is the same, but the avenue and how he does it is different. So I love that. That's so, so powerful. So tell us, where can we buy the book? Okay, can we buy the book? Where can we support you and follow you and keep up with what you have going on?

Yeah, so I'm on Barnes& Noble online and then on Amazon, and then Heaven and Earth in Virginia Beach has it in their store. So they can go in and buy it there. And the website is ftfministries.org, and that has all the podcasts I've been on, plus it has a place to buy the books. It's called From the Flames Ministries. And so I'm also starting to speak at churches, events.

Well, thank you so much for being available and sharing your testimony. And I believe that the Lord has given this woman of God a powerful testimony. That will not just show people that it doesn't matter how deep you've gone, but that Jesus is the Savior and He really will save you if you are hungry and thirsty for Him. I believe that God really thrives on hunger, when we're not just thirsty or want to escape or feel better, but want to actually experience His goodness, His grace, His peace, His salvation. And want to be all in. We want to do more than just feel better. We want to be filled with his Spirit, live with him, experience his love, his mercy, his grace, and his power.

Thank you for listening to the Thirst with Hunger podcast. We truly appreciate you joining us on this journey. Your support makes it all possible. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our channel, hit the like button, and leave a comment below with your thoughts.