S2 EP 6: When There's No Safe Place to Heal w/ Elvin Easton

Welcome to the Thirst with Hunger podcast with Pastor Sandy Edwards, where we destroy every obstacle that hinders people from knowing God. Here you'll be challenged, encouraged, and equipped to pursue his presence, walk in truth, and live with bold faith. Let's dive in.

Welcome to another episode of the Thirst With Hunger podcast. I know that we have been on a break, uh, for a while, but it was a much-needed one as God continues to build upon the foundation that we have here at Thirst with Hunger and expanding our territory and taking us further and deeper and all the things that I'm really excited about, which will come later on. But I'm excited to be back, and if you have not listened To the first 5 episodes of season 2 of the Thirst with Hunger podcast, right now is the perfect time to go catch up before we get into everything we're going to talk about in this episode. So I know we've covered a lot of ground. We've been talking about the Sermon on the Mount and how that applies to soul health and all of the different things that we sometimes overlook with how Jesus was demonstrating and explaining what our life in him should look like and how to abide in the vine and what it looks like to be a healthy person in your mind, will, and emotions, which is your soul. Your soul is your mind, will, and emotions.

All right.

And God wants us to be healthy. He does not want us to wait until we go to heaven to experience healing and deliverance. And freedom in him. So he wants us to experience it now, and we got to be willing to partner with him and lay down our own will, even if that means we have to do it every day, okay? Even if that means that we have to admit that we not all of what we think that we are. So we have to surrender ourselves to God and be humble and, um, understand that we have a need for God, which is one of the very first points that Jesus made. You have a need. Blessed are those who realize their need for God, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. You cannot receive the kingdom if you don't realize you have a need. I need God every day. It don't matter what I've been healed from in the past, I still need God every single waking, breathing moment of my life. So I believe that that affects how I show up as a mom, how I show up as a wife, How I show up as a leader, everything is dependent upon how I'm living in my soul, in my life, and working that out with the Lord. So I have with me today a very special guest for this episode, Mr. Elvin Easton. And today we're gonna talk all about when there's no safe place To heal. Now, Mr. Elvin, similar in a sense to what I do, is all about the healing work of Christ. He has a publication on Substack called The Way God Heals, so be sure to go subscribe. Don't be a stranger. All right, go like, share, do all the things. Be a part of the conversation that is happening there. So. This conversation kind of came about because I was a newbie on Substack, and I believe it was that I had made a post about why Christians are so hard to heal. And Mr. L came on there and he commented and things like that. And I was like, thank you, I appreciate it. Okay, appreciate the comments, period. And so from there, I subscribed to The Way God Heals on there and was reading and making my notes and, okay, speaking my language, you know, this sounds, you know, very familiar to me in the sense of God in a lot of ways speaks to me, not exactly the same, but similar.

Mm-hmm.

And so I was very, very, very, very impressed with just the way that you were framing certain topics and love the way that you made it plain enough for everybody to understand. And you didn't shy away from stuff, and I don't like to shy away from things either. I like to say it plain for what it is, you know. So I was really just like, man, we should get together and record a podcast episode. And I'm so glad that you are here. So I want to start off By just saying that when we talk about healing, it's not— has not been the standard for, for church community for a very long time. It's been more so shifted in the direction of deliverance, which is important. But what happens after the demon comes out? What happens after, you know, the demonic oppression leaves? what do we do with what's happening in our soul? What do we replace it with? Because now the house is empty, right?

Yeah.

And now all of the things that was weighing heavy on me, something needs to fill that space. I believe that it's very important, especially right now in the body of Christ, in this hour that we're living in especially. I believe that When we read scriptures like Jesus is coming back for a bride that is without spot or wrinkle, how do we get the spots and wrinkles out if we don't heal?

Absolutely, absolutely. That, that has been the burden of my writing, my thinking, my preaching, my conversations with my— within my social circle, is that Religion is good, but the meaning of the word means to re-league ourselves with God. And in the presence of God, we don't— we're not going to have these wounds. Like, the more we seek him, the more we're going to assimilate him, and he's going to consume us. And, and we won't need to hold on to these wounds that are so familiar. I mean, some of our wounding is because it's what we know. We could be healed if we would be healed, but we're familiar with that, and it's scary to step out into another frame of mind that doesn't involve healing because it doesn't feel safe because it's unknown. But when you know Jesus, any particular trip, crossing a swaying bridge, if somebody holds your hand, it becomes so much easier. And that's what we want to do. We want to connect people's hand to the hand of Christ so that they can walk in a healing experience. That's not so frightening. You know, there's perfect— when his perfect love comes in, all fear is cast out, and you can heal much safer.

Yeah. I think that there is a need for— just as much as there's been a highlight on what is wrong with the body of Christ, there needs to be solutions, you know, and, and people who will work and serve in the area to help bring resolve to that. It's not just enough. And while prayer is important, it is a pillar, it is a discipline, and it should be included in everything that we do as Christians. There are some issues that you have to pray and also get counsel. You have to pray and also confess. You have to pray and also be honest. And And go to people who you can trust and find people that you can trust to cover those things and not just be like, okay, well, I'ma just pray till it goes away. And some of our woundedness— I really appreciate what you said— part of what we know is drawing into ourselves when we're hurt, which is that's the only way we know how to heal, is let me go off to myself and I just believe that if I'm by myself, You know, I'm gonna be liberated, I'm gonna be set free. And yes, there are times where Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, all of them will pull you into a season and time of isolation. That does happen. But most of the time when we need to be healed, he does it within the context of you and another person, or you within the context of a body. of, of believers. And so we got to kind of be able to discern and distinguish the difference between what have I been doing my whole life that keeps leading me going down this same path over and over again. Obviously, I keep doing the same thing expecting to experience freedom, but I'm not. So what do I keep doing? Like, Maybe I need to try something different. Maybe I need to try actually talking to someone instead of internalizing within myself and examining everything only just within me and surveying that. And so I want to talk about what makes an environment safe for healing. What makes an environment safe for healing?

Exactly. Yeah, that's, that's a burden because That's a burden that the most sincere of Christ's children are facing because some of us are even in local church bodies and communities that we are overwhelmed with the burden to be healing, but there is so much healing that is needed that we can only extend ourselves so much. In the church, and we want to, we want to reach the world. Um, but we know that the church is not even ready to receive the greater flood of the world, uh, because of so much woundedness in inside of the church. But I, I was thinking this over this particular point is being the first and also being the most important to me. What does it mean to be a safe healing environment? I'm going to label some things and I'm going to cite briefly Bible verses. 2 Corinthians 3:17, it says, and the Lord is a spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, which is synonymous with freedom. Liberty means that You enter into this environment knowing that you can be yourself. Like, I don't want to use— I don't want to overlap Bible language with language of therapy, but there is some understanding. You, you have to be free until you figure out what Christ wants you to be. You have to be free to be yourself because you're never going to find him hiding your true, true character, hiding your true gifts, hiding your true personality. A safe place must be a place where freedom of thought and freedom of expression is encouraged within basic parameters. You don't want people screaming and setting fires in church, to be exaggerated.

Right.

But you want people to, if they wanna praise God in testimony time with something that seems simple, you wanna form, if they repeat themselves, you wanna foster that, you want to provoke that. Until they have a new testimony. If they— you want people to inquire what they could do to serve. You don't want to stifle that because sometimes you stifle and it goes away. A safe place of healing is where people feel free, like they came into their house. This is my Father's house.

Mm-hmm.

They really feel they can't wait to get there. Even if it's just a little country shack church, they get there and they feel like they're with their family. They feel free to be themselves. But you're not going to shun all their character flaws.

Exactly.

You're going to give example.

Mm-hmm.

And you're going to give encouragement.

Mm-hmm.

You're gonna smile at the bad joke, you know what I mean? But you're not going to— you're not going to get into a big laughter because you're a big brother, you're giving your— your— or big sister, you're giving the example. So freedom is a very big part of a safe environment. If I go in there feeling shackled, I mean, this is what I maybe felt growing up. This is maybe what I felt in public school. I feel free here. I met my tribe. And I'm gonna say more about that in a different context, as in when we get into a different point. But another thing, there's 3 basic things. That was the first one. John 12:32, Jesus said very clearly, If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me. And the church that is focused on externals and a church that is focused on— now I'm qualifying churches in any safe place. A church where, okay, doctrine was important, and we'll talk about that towards the end, but a church where Christ's character is not fully preached, his mercy, his justice, his righteousness. Where, where he is not the center, but progress, humanism, you know, self-improvement. Self is improved by being absorbed in Christ. Self is transformed. We're not looking for improvement, we're looking for a new birth.

Yeah.

Coming out, coming out what we weren't. Now we are something different, which, which is his image, right?

Exactly.

So those are, those are 2 basic things, and And the third one I would say is where individual gifts are fostered, where— and also the individual is recognized. 1 Corinthians 12:26, it says, if one member suffer, then all the members suffer with it.

Yes.

So we all for one, one for all.

Yeah.

All for one, one for all. I felt a certain camaraderie when I was in the world because I belonged to a quasi-religious cult called the Five Percent Nation of Gods and Earths. And I just love that we hug one another. We would build, we would get in cipher, and just today, my, my developed mind, not a teenage mind, it was all just jargon. It was just psychobabble. It was foolishness. But it meant something to me because there was love, superficial all it may be. It was something that I, I was experiencing that made me feel like I belonged. And when I spoke, people listened.

Mm-hmm.

And I don't mean that that made me the center of attention. I just mean that my gifts were important and my wounds were important. This is very, very If you, if you don't follow the deeper inner principle, it sounds bad that I would use this as an example, but if one of us got in a fight, all of us were in a fight.

Mm-hmm.

And, and why doesn't that apply to when my rent is due? Why doesn't that apply to when my child is rebellious?

Exactly.

This is— these are things where I feel, even if nobody can help me, because nobody— everybody's in the same boat, we're all weeping together, we're all praying together. Those are the 3 things that I find that make church environments feel chilled. When I can't be myself, where I'm not seeing people striving to be— like, just the fact that they're lifting up Christ is going to show me their defects? Like, they're trying to show me Christ, I see their defects, but they're trying to show me Christ.

Exactly.

Because they're showing me Christ. That's the only reason I can see their defects. But I love them because despite their defects, they're showing me Christ.

Exactly.

And that means, that means if they're showing me their defects, this— because they're showing me Christ, then when they see my defects, they're still going to show me Christ. Do you understand what I mean?

Yeah.

So those are the things that I believe make for a safe healing environment. Like a church that doesn't even have it all together doctrinally, But they want Christ, they want everybody to be free to follow Christ, and they foment the gifts and they share the burdens. That's a safe place for healing in my, in my estimation.

Yeah, absolutely. I want to highlight a couple things that you said about if one person is in the fight, we are all in it together. And I think that that combats this whole movement that is happening Underneath the line of being a Christian, which is that I'm independent. I got my own relationship with God. Well, I got my own, I got my own, I got my own. But everything that Christ formed has unity in it.

Mm-hmm.

I think about often, and this applies to when we're gathering with one another and how we handle grief. When someone's parent or child or a woman who just experienced a miscarriage, all this stuff, like, are we consciously sitting down to think about what we say before we say it?

Yeah.

That's part of being intentional in serving the overarching mission, which is that we are one body. And because we're one body, that means that Whenever a member of that one body— because I'm in the body too— is experiencing a deficit, experiencing grief, experiencing pain of any kind, how would I want to be treated in that situation? How would, how would God want me to respond? What does it look like to show love? What does it look like To love. Do we even have an understanding of what the love of God is? Right. And I think that those teachings, especially honing in on the point that you made about when Christ is only taught in part, where we talk about love but don't talk about his justice, we talk about mercy but don't show grace. And then you have the people who link all the way to the left or the right and leave parts out because touching that part of Christ is a little bit too uncomfortable, you know, for us. And what came to my mind was how on Resurrection Sunday, um, this is just something that is a burden for, for me as a leader, as even an individual. Something that continues to be a burden for me is how Loosely we handle in the church the, the sacrifice that Jesus made on behalf of all of us, right? The ultimate sacrifice. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, and whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. So I break that down into 3 different parts, which is that For God so loved the world. But for some reason, it seems like we have reduced for God so loved the world to for God so loved us on Easter Sunday. And we're only going to remember that God so loved us and showed the most love and invite the communities. I'm talking about us here, you know, in the US. Invite the outside communities, get everybody, they mom, dad, sister, brother, everyone. to church and feel the most love and family around the time of Resurrection Sunday. And then there's the part 2 that we do, which is that when we read Isaiah 53:5 and it says, but he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed.

Hallelujah.

Most of the time this scripture It's only highlighted during Resurrection Sunday. It's not a pillar. It's not something that we really sit and, and think about. The fact that if I'm in this environment with other believers, do they believe that he was wounded for, for all of our transgressions, or just some of ours? Only some of us are transgressors, or is it all of us?

Hmm.

Do some of us only have iniquities, or is it all of us? Yes.

Yes.

And it's specifically— the verse uses the word we. It's not individual. It's not you got your own transgressions over there and I got my own over here. It's like, no, we, we all have Sin. We all have transgressions. And so when we're coming together, if we don't have that understanding, it's going to be very hard for us to love, which will cause more wounds because we're not walking in love. And so if we don't have an understanding of what the love of God is, we can't heal anybody. We can't heal in no way, shape, or form if we don't have an understanding or a revelation of the love of God. And what has happened is we've taken the understanding of love, the revelation of love, God's love, and we've reduced it to just an emotion. Well, I love you when I feel like it, or I love you when you're tolerable, when, when you don't have any issues. That's when, that's when I'll love you. That's when I'll show up and bring you a meal. That's when I'll invite you. You know, when you don't have all of these heavy things happening in your life, that's when I'll talk to you. And I think that we are moving in a direction where, you know, the Bible talks about in the last days men will become lovers of themselves. And we are there right now. We are there where it's like me, me, I, I, what can I get? Instead of being like the early church in the book of Acts, they shared all things in common. You know, it wasn't every man on an island for themselves. And so I really believe that that's important for us to heal. We gotta love. It cannot be separate from— we can't pick and choose like we love to do sometimes. Yes, all of us have baggage. and things that we bring into these environments. And yes, all of us have our own circumstances that have led us to understanding who Jesus is and receiving him as Lord. All of us do. We all got a walk and a journey that led us there. But if we don't love, we can't heal.

Absolutely, absolutely. God so loved the world that he gave And I could have made that a 4th category of safe place for healing. Many churches, even our little local church up in the mountain here, it's a constant struggle knowing how to manage the needs of so many people, not within the church and without. And sometimes we get afraid to give because people— we get afraid that people will take. And that's not just economically. I mean, it can be economically, but in such a close-knit, self-sustaining community here, I mean, sometimes it has to do with just borrowing tools for farming and things like that, but it applies across the board. We get shell-shocked with so much need that we are afraid to give, but this is the whole essence of salvation. God gave. The gospel is the power of God. That's what He's giving. So it's not us overcoming, it's Him working in us, the willing and the doing when we submit to it. But we get afraid to submit because what if it costs us? But we forget that it costs our life. We have to die to live.

Yes.

He died so that we could live, but we have to die so that we can live too. The self that we know and that we cultivate without His help, doesn't have a place in the Kingdom of Heaven. Romans 8 says that we were predestined to be conformed to His image, to be made like Him.

Yeah.

And so it's a calling on us to understand first, this is why so many ministers, I don't want to speak in the negative, but it would appear that they lead their flocks astray because they're not directing them to what is the greater burden. This is the issue of healing. Like, if you're telling me about prosperity, And Brother Billy got so much, he's got his car in his house and I don't, then either the gospel doesn't apply to me or you're not telling the truth. But if you're telling me that the true riches are the gifts and the calling of God on my life, and I can use them in whatever sphere I'm in, even if I'm living in a cardboard box, I can be an example to the world, I can be a light to the world. Then I cherish the gospel. Then I cherish what you're telling me. Then I, then I, then I'm this— it's almost impossible for me not to improve in every other area of my life because now I'm working on my character. I'm working on Christ's image in me.

Exactly. And you know, that, that brings me to my next point, which is that it's all of our responsibility, individual, with God first. Not individual without God, trying to do this without God, but between us and him first. And then by the time we come together, it's not that it won't have a strain, that it won't come with conflict, because that's a part of humans coming together all together, you know. But if we're cultivating that life in private, that idea in private first between Us and the Lord being the first partaker of everything first, and by the time we come together, right, there should be a flow. And I talked about this in a previous episode on the Thirst with Hunger podcast about the weapon of first resort. There was a whole passage of scripture in Acts where Peter. And all of them being told that you can preach, just, just you can't preach in Jesus' name. You can say, you know, whatever you want to say, but just don't, don't use the name of Christ. Don't use Jesus' name, you know, all of that. And so Peter and them, they go back to the community of believers that they are part of. And I paid very close attention when I was studying this, how The Bible is, is making a specific note that the first response that they had wasn't to argue about what the Sanhedrin said. The first response that they had to the issue that, that was coming against them wasn't to, well, let's talk about how much we don't like the leader of the Sanhedrin, and let's talk about You know, all the things. The, the Bible makes note that they prayed, that they came together on one accord. I pay attention to words like that in the Bible. I don't think that God highlights those things in scripture for no reason.

Absolutely.

Like, the Bible does not say that they came together to talk about the drama and all the stuff that was happening. It says that they came together on one accord to Pray. And in my mind, my first thought was when I, when I read that was I imagine that so many wounds would have happened in that moment had there been a split or an argument to say, well, shouldn't we obey the law since they made it a law? And all the arguments and things that could have happened, and it would have turned into a whole mess had they chosen to get in their flesh Right, because we do that, we get in our flesh. So here it is, they, they're presented with this issue, and the Bible says the first thing that they did was they prayed on one accord. And not just that they prayed any kind of prayer, but they all prayed the same prayer in agreement with God. In agreement with God. And so my idea behind what makes an environment safe to heal and all of these things that we're coming into the context of community with is why we don't agree with God, right? If we're— if he said this is how the community should look and he said this is how we are to function, then why do we have a difference of opinion that doesn't agree with God? And And we're bringing that into the environment and it's causing more wounds.

Yes.

Right, which is how we as the church continue to cause more wounds because we're not in agreement with God. All of this, all of this has everything to do with what we are doing in secret. If what I'm doing in secret isn't bearing witness to the Spirit, I'm not drinking of the cup, I'm not eating of the word of God, there's no way I'm going to be able to come inside of a community and thrive, right? And help other people thrive, right? I'm not even doing what we do together by myself, right? So then If, if someone, you know, the Bible says to be kind, and kindness is one of the fruits of the Spirit. If so-and-so didn't speak to me that particular Sunday, or if somebody did something that offended me, is it kind to just be like, okay, okay, whatever, and then let that offense fester? Is it kind for me to do that? Is it kind because someone was rude to me to be rude back? These are very basic things, you would think, you know, in, in, in commish communities. These are very basic things. But again, what seems basic to us, we're not doing it.

That's right.

That's great. But we're not doing it. You know, that's right.

The lack of making the Word of God our manual, our policy, and the progression of our labor, that is the biggest source of wounding. I mean, the Word is what heals, and the farther we get away from the Word, the more wounding we're going to see within God's people, and the more difficult it's going to be to offer healing to the world. I mean, nobody likes— I probably shouldn't have said it like that, but nobody likes somebody that's only quoting scripture and then there's no context, there's no love, there's no flesh and bones on it, there's no reality on it. But you do a disservice by trying to reframe the scriptures too without leaning on them. Like, the scripture should be quoted. Give life to it. Nehemiah did that when he read to Israel when the Book of the Law had been hidden for so long. He gathered up those that should know and said, study this, and then they read it and they put sense to the Word of God for the people so that they could hear it and understand it. But that's not happening anymore. Sometimes there'll be a sermon that a Scripture will be mentioned, and this is every denomination, a Scripture will be mentioned, but the message has nothing to do with the Scripture.

Exactly.

And and I came because my husband is just ready to beat me. I came because my wife is just about to step out because we're not getting along. And I and you're talking about you know something that is intangible. You're real, you're realistic. I'm not an entrepreneur.

You know what I mean?

I go to work. I need I need to know how healing reaches me.

Yes.

Like, what did God say about my wounds? Can you please tell me that? And you talking doesn't make me understand. When I hear God— I don't know if you went through this experience, Sandy, but as a new believer, when the Spirit was calling— because I have read the Bible to prove it wrong many times in my youth, right? But when I was opening up because of circumstances in my life to my need, even though I wasn't willing to admit it, and started reading the word That is when I could reckon that's God speaking. When you hear the, when you hear the word, you know, you said that's God talking. And that's, that's why churches are not having the healing balm that they need for the people that are coming to them.

100%. When people are coming, I remember being in, I was in a, in my 20s, I was in a school for worship leaders, and one of the books that they had us read was called Worship Leaders Are Not Rock Stars, right? And one of the things that he said in that book that I will never forget, it never left my mind, is he said, on Sunday mornings, people are coming into the church from Arguments that they just had in the morning before they pulled up, uh, entering the door. Kids who've been misbehaving all week, marital issues. Some couples and people are struggling with infertility. You got sicknesses, illnesses, all these things that are going on. And so for you as a worship leader to get up and think that it's about you is not giving glory to God. That's at all. And he made it so plain. I mean, I was like, it don't get no more plain than that. I'm summarizing, um, paraphrasing, but it don't get any more plain than that. Like, when people are coming into the church, both from the congregant and those in leadership, we have to be mindful that We don't live with those people every day.

Mm-hmm.

We don't walk with those people every day. We're not talking to those people every day. We're not with them every waking, breathing moment of the day. So having the expectation, right, that how I encountered Brother So-and-so last Sunday is how I'm going to encounter Brother So-and-so next Sunday. It's unrealistic. It, it is. There's— you're never the same person twice, you know what I mean? Like, you have these different experiences and things that, that have led you to where you are and how you're encountering God and living your life that particular day. Hearing somebody from the pulpit tell you, or hearing your, your brother or sister in Christ in a small group tell you, or in a support group for alcoholics, or whatever the case may be, hearing other Christians share their experiences and where they came from, and all of that starts to make us feel like we're not crazy.

That's right.

It starts to make us feel like, you know what, you've been through that, I've been through that too. Like, you know, like, I have witnessed this And here's how I experienced God. How did you experience God? Like, again, all things in common is that we're human. And God is not fallible. He does not lie.

He is—

he keeps every single promise that he makes. He's not us. We're not him.

Mm-hmm.

We're made in his image. We don't need to be like him, you know? So it's coming into those spaces when you start to hear people say, and when there is space within the church for people to say that, you know what, this week was a hard week.

Hmm.

I definitely felt like divorcing my spouse. I definitely felt like leaving and abandoning my children. Even— but we don't let people say what they feel like they have to say, what's on their heart. And the reason we don't is because, going back to your point about we're afraid to give, and with giving comes creating space for people to be who they are. And we, for some reason, we are afraid that if we allow people to be who they are, then that's gonna take from us.

It's like it may rob into the energy that we need to be healing, but a lot of people sometimes are, are preaching what they haven't experienced. I mean, I've tried not to do that, but I do understand what it is trying to act on faith. But when that goes on too prolonged, a prolonged amount of time, there's like this dissonance that happens in the mind where you're disconnected from the need for that to be a reality in your life.

Yeah.

And you'll be preaching it, but, but you're not experiencing it. So then you become insensible to the other people that are now wanting to overcome these things. There's too much disconnect. And we can't give from what we're not receiving. So we're not being filled. Love is not ours. Patience is not ours. All these things are gifts given to us by faith. When we lose our faith, we don't have them anymore.

We don't.

So we've got to give from the store. We got to be looking for it every day in order to give it. We got these church These church circles where broken people are trying to help broken people, and somebody— that's why you're doing your podcast and we're doing our different works— some— somebody's got to be healed first, you know. Somebody's got to be the light that's no longer under a bushel. Somebody's got to step out and take the brunt of the— in order for anything to work in a human institution, where humans are in the institution, even though the church is of God, there's got to be sacrifice.

It does.

Somebody's got to listen to all those tears. And it should be in the first place the minister, and then the elders, and then the deacons, and then the brother that, you know, he, he lives close enough to stop by and see if you need anything. But it might have to start with one in many congregations. And in many congregations, wounded people that know what they need may have to walk out, you know, for the— in order for those to stay to wake up and say, hold on, that couple came here because they, they, they gave the evidence that God was calling them, but they couldn't find here what they needed, and they left us a nice letter. Look at that. We're sorry, we we love your congregation, but we couldn't find what we were looking for Christ's healing and we couldn't find it here. Then you say, "Well, what were we missing?" Hopefully, you don't need more shows and more concerts. You need more of the word. You need your concerts even to be more word-oriented when you're having them. You need your youth groups to be enjoyable, but you need to give the youth the word. Because Psalm 107:20, it says, they cried unto the Lord and he sent his word and it healed them. This is, this is the whole crux of your platform, that this is why I started loving what you were writing. And this is what I'm trying to do, like make people see the word is tangible. It does, it does actually apply to modern life. It's blinding in mine. I'm not perfect. I'm, I'm imperfect.

It's very perfect.

But it's applying in mind. Like, I can get over— like, I, I was telling you earlier before we got on camera that it was a good productive day, but it was productive because I didn't pull all my little bitty hairs out for trials that I was going through in the morning. Very strong, difficult trials. But if I didn't have the Lord to, to go to, if I didn't have the word to remind me of what is the purpose of those trials, I wouldn't have made it through today.

Exactly. And see how you were able to just articulate that? That is what I'm saying right there, how there is space, there is time to say this was productive because this morning is— this is how this started, and I was struggling, you know, but I can lean on the Lord. And, and you know what I was even sharing with you a few days ago, or maybe it was yesterday, about Sometimes I feel like there's weeks that go in between days of talking to people for some reason, you know. I've learned to give my hurt to God. That came through intentionality, me being intentional. And when I read my Bible, understanding that it's true.

That's right.

Because when I read Isaiah 53:5, I'm just like, Oh, you took on the wounds for my transgressions though. I believe it. You know what I mean? You were bruised from all of my iniquities, not some of them, all of them.

That's right.

Like, I believe it. When the chastisement of our peace, my peace, was upon you, and by your stripes I'm healed. I believe. I believe it. And sometimes the belief starts in your mind before it takes root in your heart.

That's right.

Sometimes it starts there before it goes into the heart. It has to start here. This is why the Bible says be transformed by the renewing of your mind through the word of God. You're not going to be renewed through anything else. It's never going to happen. Amen. And I think sometimes what tends to happen with us as Christians is we read the word of God and we think that these are just suggestions that God has given us to say, oh hey, I think this would be a good idea. And God is just like, no, I'm not saying this would be a good idea. This is the idea that works.

That's right.

This is the process that works.

This—

it is my word is what works.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it is life, everlasting life. You want to live, you gotta eat of the word. That's why Jesus didn't say— he didn't just say in Matthew 5, verse 6, he didn't just say, blessed are those who thirst and hunger. He said, after righteousness. He specified what you need to be thirsty and hungry for.

That's right.

Righteousness. Not, oh, I'm, you know, I just, I just want somebody to like make me feel better. It's like, do you want to feel better or do you want to be made whole? Because you cannot have it both ways. And maybe after you made whole, you'll feel better, but it's not about making your flesh—

It's that one. It's that one, sister. Faith precedes the feeling.

Yeah.

You obey. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the word of God. Faith calls you on to act even though you're not feeling it. You, you do it, and then when God accomplishes his will in you because you were willing to act on your faith, then you feel good about it even though it was hard, even though that you got wounded superficially going through the process. You eat Even though it hurt, or, or even though it meant separation from things that you wanted or whatever, you feel good when you're— when you are living by faith. You're seeking, you're seeking Christ's righteousness. You know it's not yours. You know you can't be him, sinless and perfect. But you, you're willing to live his righteousness out.

You're like— Yeah.

You, you're willing to let, to let the world and the angels believe that you truly are righteous. Because you're trying to stay that close to him.

Isaiah 1:19 came to my mind as we were talking. It says, if you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land. But if you refuse and rebel, you will be devoured.

That's right.

Either you want to eat the good of the land, you might as well go ahead, lay down, surrender, your will to God.

That's right.

Or you're gonna refuse and rebel. And this is personal before it is communal.

That's right.

Like, and this is the whole point of this, is that it is personal before it is communal. Before we can come into any environment trying to address our communal issues, we have to first address the things that are happening in our individual mind, will, and emotions. And sometimes God does do them both in the environment. Sometimes he does. But most of the time I've seen where God uses the individual experience in relationship with him, empowered by the Spirit of God. When we come into that environment, we're on one accord because you've spent time with the real Christ.

I got it.

I got to make emphasis here because there's all of this mixture that is happening these days where it's like, is you sure that's Jesus? Because I'm not sure that's Jesus. You know, sure you calling on Jesus' name? Because that don't sound like Jesus to me. You know, like, you sure that's what the scripture say? Because I just typed that into Google and, um, even AI said that this ain't right. You know what I mean? So like, it's, it's being pliable to God to say, you know what, one, God is not expecting me to know everything there is to know before I receive his healing work, you know, in my life. He's not.

Mm-hmm.

He's not expecting me to have answers for why I am not healed or why I'm experiencing what I'm experiencing. He's not asking me to do that. Somewhere we picked up this habit though, that it's our job to do the work. But all God is asking for from us is our faith and trust. And that is the work, to have faith, to trust, you know. And that means you have to do that every single waking, breathing moment of your life. So I want to kind of shift gears. A little bit and talk about this whole vulnerability trap, right? And when it comes to how we're in our soul, the way we're navigating things in our soul when it comes to vulnerability, we will either polish it in efforts to not seem like someone who is experiencing lack in our soul. Or we will lean all the way to the right and weaponize our vulnerability to kind of hurt other people the way that we're hurting. Or we will weaponize it in a way to build up some type of like platform and power where we're just like, well, I'm only being vulnerable so that I can be seen as somebody who can handle hard hits. You may think that you're so tough, Like, and that nothing can penetrate you and hurt your heart, you know? And all these things you think you base your whole relationship on with God around how many hard hits you can take. It's like, oh well, this was hard. Oh well, I'm good. I don't need nobody.

Mm-hmm.

Or you do the opposite, which is that, man, look at how many things you wear it as a badge of honor where you're just like, I went through I went through this, I went through that. Look at me, like I'm so strong. And it's like, strength ain't even yours. It's, it's not yours.

That's right.

So when we're talking about vulnerability, we have to be authentic with our vulnerability, meaning that we're not putting on airs, not using vulnerability as a measure to say, Well, you ain't never been through what I've been through, so your testimony ain't important. Because we do this in, in the context of church too, where if somebody's life was just as simple as, okay, well, all I've ever known is Christ, I got saved when I was 5, and I've been filled with the Holy Spirit, and I ain't never had to walk through, you know, no hard things. So then We try to use our vulnerability to make those people feel bad and say, well, you ain't never been through nothing hard, so you must not really be saved.

Mm.

You've never had to suffer like I did, so you must not. And we, we indirectly punish people for our suffering, which also causes woundedness within the church. We make other people feel responsible for what we had to suffer through. Hmm.

This, this particular generation, the last couple of generations, I think that as a Gen X person, I came through, I got to see the old school. My father was, uh, his— he was a little independent Pentecostal church. It was called the Holiness Gospel Church. Um, And I got to see what striving for that old school primitive godliness was like in the context of their understanding at that time. I think maybe a lot of light was missing, but I got to see what it is to like people wanting to be godly. But when you talk about their scriptures, I feel like people think like the scriptures apply to the old times and it's not. I think the scriptures apply more to today upon who— on us, who upon whom the ends of the world have come, than they did back then.

Yeah.

Things like this. The Lord said, 2 Corinthians 6:7, come ye out from among them and be ye separate, and they— and, and I will be a Father unto you. We, because of the internet, like, this is a blessing what we're doing. We have the internet to do this, right? But because of the internet, church people have— are more interconnected with thought processes and ideas from the world. They spend hours a day on the internet and all kinds of motivations and stimulations, but very little time in the word. And they're exposed to concepts like branding. And it, it doesn't matter if you're from the hood or you're from Beverly Hills. Everybody want a brand. Everybody wants a brand. You got corporate business mentality. You got to set up your thing just so. And, and yes, yes, order is the first law of heaven, I believe. You know what I mean? But then you've got growth goals. Where does the Holy Spirit come in With how many people you got to baptize in a month? Where is the work? Like you're gonna tell the Spirit what he has to do. The Bible is very clear that he is to work us. You know what I mean? You set a goal of a hundred people, but maybe the holies if you were in the word and in the Spirit, you would have baptized a thousand. There's no place for setting a goal for God's work. You You set a goal for godliness, you set a goal for Christ-likeness, you set a goal for love. Lord, let me love like you. But the performative things— because it's because the church is so intertwined, we haven't come, we haven't come out. We're still going, we're going more into Babylon.

Mm-hmm.

And the ultimate thing is, the ultimate thing is that if you're going to keep your faith If you're going to become healed, you have to recognize that the world will not see you as one of them as long as you hold on— you hold on to the lot— the, the most minimal marker of Jesus. The world will obligate you to let that go, or they will persecute you.

Exactly. And to your point, Mm-hmm. Because even though I do— I develop brands and things as a business, right? I constantly have to remind my clients, I just don't agree with the world system for how to do things. I don't. And I, I just don't. And so, like, I made that very clear from the onset, is that everything I do stems from Scripture. When I read about Genesis and dominion over the earth, I'm not sitting here looking at tools like AI and saying AI gets to tell me how to live my life and what to do and what to post and how to— no, I have dominion over it. It does not tell me what to do. That's according to the word. Again, if I don't know my word I'll just yield to everything and anything in this world system and call it God and put God's name and his label and his word on it and say, all right, well, God bless me. Did he, or did the world system do this for you?

That's right.

Right. So I, I find myself in this place where I'm just like, you know, in order for us to To experience healing of the mind, healing of the will, healing of the emotions, we have to come completely out of agreement with the world system.

That's right.

That means that if your marriage needs healing, have you been introducing, uh, stuff into your marriage that is from the world? Or have you been bearing witness with, with the word? Have you been holding your husband or wife to an expectation that God doesn't have of them?

Mm-hmm.

Have you been comparing your spouse to people that you see online and you don't know them people? You don't know them people. They— you think that they got this, this, that, and the third. Meanwhile, they renting an Airbnb. It's not their house. Yeah, I just gotta be plain, okay? It's not the house. Like, some of them people, you don't know them. You don't know their real life. You don't know any of this. And we're wounded because we keep our eyes on everything but Christ.

That's right.

Okay, well, so-and-so got this, and why am I not? I mean, they living like the world, but I'm over here saved, on fire, filled with the Holy Ghost, reading my word, praying and fasting. All the things. I don't understand, God, why you not giving that to me? And God is just like, you don't even know how they got it. You don't even know what she did to get the husband she got. You, you don't know. I know because I'm God, but you don't know.

Mm-hmm.

And so you're wounded because you're coveting. You're wounded because you spend more of your time on trying to ask God for things so you can spend it on your own pleasures, which is in the Book of James, if I'm not mistaken. You asking God all this stuff so you can spend it on your own pleasures, and you think that getting this is going to heal you, but it's not because it's not righteous. The stuff ain't righteous. Only Jesus is.

That's right.

So you're, you're not gonna get filled. And, and this brings me to what I constantly marvel at when I read the Book of Psalms. There's so many Psalms that— and people love to paint David to be this emotional human being. And yeah, he did experience, you know, emotions and things like that. But I pay attention, as I said again, To the way things are written.

That's right.

And why they are written that way. And it's not because I'm just an analytical thinker, because I do analyze things, but it's because I believe that God is intentional about everything that he does. And, and the way in which certain contexts of scripture is written, like this is in this spot, that is in that spot for a reason, you know, and it flows together, one overarching message. And so one of the things I paid attention to when I was just serving in the area of leading worship, and before I really realized that a healer's anointing rests on my life and things like that, I would read the Psalms and see David use words like, I'm satisfied.

Hmm.

After he spent a whole chapter letting God just have it, like, I feel like you left me, where you at? I don't understand. You know, God is— he just let God have it. And then at the end, he says that after he exposes and expresses all that he feels, at the end of it, he lands on a conclusion. And I'm like, what would make a person land on such a strong conclusion after only spending time airing out what was in your heart to God? And you would go from one extreme to the other, completely laying out all of your heart, and then at the very end you say things like, I'm satisfied by the Lord. I trust in the Lord. I have found my peace in the Lord.

Mm-hmm.

And then our favorite one, Psalm 23, yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. After— prior to that, he had just spent time saying all the things about his life and his experiences and what he was seeing and what he was going through and all the stuff. And I'm just like, You guys treat David like he's just the king who made a mistake and sinned against God, and it caused consequences and all these things. You guys highlight that, but do you pay attention to the relationship that he had with the Lord and why, even in all of the mess, even in all of the stuff, God still refers to him? As a man after his own heart.

Yeah, David, in one case, he even gets in conflict with his own soul. In Psalm 46, he says, talking of his wounds and the frustration that he feels over, over his, his own failings, he says, why art thou cast down, O my soul? Why art thou disquieted within me? That conversation between him and himself. Why are you feeling like this? And then he says, hope thou in God, who is the health of my countenance. My problem is I just don't trust. And based on several things that you were saying, I wanted to look at the camera and make an appeal to the ministers and the leaders. If you see your congregation is acting out, if you see your people You're spending more time in board meetings trying to put out fires than anything else. Before you look to the problems of your congregants, make sure that there's peace in your home. Make sure that when you people walk in your door, they say, "Oh my God, your spirit is here." If you gotta sell furniture, if you gotta put you know hide the TV, if you have to reconcile with your wife. Or ask forgiveness to your children. Please, the healing of the church depends on the healing that Christ can give you as an individual. You are the— you are God's man, but the church needs healed men, healed homes, and then it can extend into the church under your leadership. You as an undershepherd of the great leader, please seek healing for your own homes.

We gotta make God— Jesus has to be— let me say it this way, Jesus has to become Lord over our lives again.

Mm-hmm.

That is the only way these problems that we have will be resolved. Like, we can go to therapy, and therapy is useful. I'm not against it. I have been a beneficiary of that. As a— as both a ministry of presence and being present with people in counseling, I've, I've been on both the receiving and giving side. So, but most of our problems will be resolved when Jesus is Lord in the proper place that he should be. He should be preeminent, meaning he should be first. Over and through and around everything. And God's whole point that he's at work to get all of us to understand and arrive at the conclusion is that whenever we move him in a different position than the one he should have been in is when we open up the doors to all kinds of chaos.

Hmm.

Eve in, in Genesis, the, the devil himself, what was he trying to get her to do? To put something else in place of God. Her own curiosity. That's her own, her own desires, what she thought, you know, would have been best. And that's temptation that is common to man that God has provided a way of escape for. And we don't, we don't take God's word as serious as we should. If he says that the way you resist the temptation is to flee so that you don't get wounded, then why are we still staying? Run, run for your life, okay?

Run.

Flee means to run. It means to leave. It, it There is no justification for it, you know. So we have to get to the place where when we're opening God's word, when it tells us instructions, when it gives us instructions, to actually do them.

That's right.

And they, they're not difficult to understand. They're not— made it very plain. And there's usually, if you find a scripture that you don't understand I guarantee you there's 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 other places in the scripture that make that one scripture even more plain than the one that you're having an issue understanding.

That's right.

But you have to want to seek it out. You have to want to go find out what it says for yourself. Don't just take our words in this podcast episode.

That's right.

Because after a while And I just want to say this to people who are listening and will listen in the very near future, and however long this podcast continues to remain, is that you have to desire it. It's not enough just to be like, all right, well, he was wounded for my transgressions. All right, cool. Got it. Check the box. It's like you have to want to be hungry to experience him. As the healer. The woman with the issue of blood, Jesus did not say that it was her touching the hem that healed her. He said it was your faith made you whole. Your faith, emphasis on your, not the faith of Grandma Sally, not the faith of your mom, your dad, sister, brother, the pastor in your church. But it was her faith that made her whole. So that tells me that healing is also a matter of my faith. And, and we gotta be honest that— and, and say out loud to God, because maybe some of us, we haven't been given permission to say out loud, God, I don't believe you.

Yeah.

And we won't say it because we're just like, well, I gotta have faith and Saying that I don't have faith means that I'mma get criticized because we do this in church. When somebody says that they having doubts or that they're struggling to believe the Lord and they don't believe like we do, we just look at them and be like, why would you doubt God? That's the devil. That's the devil. It's like, give people space and opportunity to say, right now, I don't know what it is that I believe. God wants to sit in that, but he can't sit in that if we're so busy trying to rush people to a conclusion to get there. It's like, is there space for me to even wrestle with unbelief?

We live for conformity more than we look for transformation, and transformation takes, takes place under God's tutelage, under his time. And by the working in the Word with patience, if His children don't mess up somebody's transformation, it will take place. And somebody that's being called and they're struggling, they say, I have doubts, but I don't want to let go of God. But we want conformity to our particular churches' traditions. We want to our particulars. It's like the Anglicizing of Christianity.

It is.

If you and I talk, I'm like, I don't have the same concepts of race of everybody else, but at the same time, I do recognize that it's inner, like, not understanding Christ that you would need to transform his image from what he probably was into something that he definitely wasn't. You know what I mean? You— I've seen, you know, Christian material where Jesus has Chinese eyes because the books are going to be given out in China. I think it'd be better not to put a picture of Jesus there than to make him Chinese, because Jesus was not Chinese. And then, I mean, let's stay with— like, if we can't let them identify with the words, yeah, not, not with the idol. And, and we, we, uh, we get distracted by trying to— we distract people by trying to get them to conform to the image of Christ that we have. It says— the scripture says, be ye not— you mentioned it— not conformed to this world. It's telling you to look to, to discredit all conformity, but to be transformed. Transformation is something that only God can do. And if you, if you don't feel free that God is working with you, then you, you don't allow somebody else to be But it's not, it's not just a burden on the pastor alone or the deacons or any— it's on every individual. Like, we're not, we're not responsible for other people's salvation, but we do hold responsibility before God for the influence that we have. That's why we have to be in the word. We have to be certain of our healing. We have to be clear about why we're going to church. We're going to church to be fed alone? Weren't you fed during the week? You know what I mean? Like, weren't you fed every morning, morning by morning? I'm going to church to let my light so shine. I'm, I'm not adverse to somebody else sharing a word with me that's going to animate me and make me want to say amen. Hallelujah! But I'm also going to give that word. I'm also going to give that smile. I'm also going to give that hug because somebody needs me there today, even if I don't even know it. I could be just sitting there smiling, getting fed, but I'm smiling, getting fed because I could— or I could be in disagreement what pastor said, but the way I handle it is going— it's gonna— it's helping somebody next to me.

Mm-hmm.

It's like, I'm gonna transition into one little point, but the, the vulnerability, the vulnerability that we need, only the person that is following the voice of God 100% is going to be able to break through and, and, and, and sit in that vulnerability and not feel exposed because they know God has their back. The, the point that I wanted to make is that sometimes in church there are people— ministers, elders, deaconesses, everybody— that they've been hurt in church. They're still there, but they've been hurt, and they've made it their point to hurt subconsciously. They made it their point to hurt other people because they've been hurt.

Yeah.

They've made it their point to lash out. But this is the difference between a hero and a villain in the movies. They both got a story.

Yeah.

But one person— the way that, uh, a villain responds to what has happened to them is by lashing out and making the world pay for their wound. But because he was wounded, Christ was already wounded for our iniquities before you got that.

He had—

he carried it, and he's still carrying it. until the days comes. But the hero says, this is not going to happen to other people on my watch. While I can— I'm only one, but I'm one. And if I can do something about somebody— I see so-and-so talking to that, that new visitor, I'm just gonna slide over there and I'm going to— I'm gonna insert myself so that they know that they got a friend here.

Mm-hmm.

With this is the path of healing that God desires for us. The more you help, the more you are helped. I just want to let that go with us. The more you help, the more you are helped. The more you give, the more you receive.

God loves a cheerful Giver.

Hallelujah.

A cheerful giver. That's 2 Corinthians 9:7.

Amen.

God loves a cheerful giver. I'm gonna pull up the actual whole verse so I can read it. It says, each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly Or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Amen.

So if I am in the context of community and I have been wounded and I have been hurt, and when other people are around me who are experiencing hurt, maybe not to the degree that I am, but they're around me. How do I see that person? Am I seeing them as a burden that will come upon me?

Mm-hmm.

Or am I viewing it under the lens of Jesus said that my yoke is easy, my burden is light? That person is Jesus' burden to carry. That person is his burden to carry, and it's light. So if I'm looking at people and I'm just like, man, your life is so heavy, and this is that and the third, and going through the motions in my head, you know what I mean? It's like, no, you're Jesus' burden to carry. I can listen. And I think it's understanding when it's appropriate to sit and listen and being discerning and asking the Holy Spirit if he wants you to be the one to sit there and listen, or if he wants you to commit the person to prayer. But again, it comes down to asking God.

That's right.

We ask God if any of us lack wisdom. Let us ask them— ask God, and he will give it to us willingly.

Amen.

Hand it to you. That means if I'm confused about how I should deal with whoever, then I can ask, and he'll tell me.

That's right.

In John 9, when the disciples wanted to assume that the reason why this man was blind was because of his Mother and father sinning. Jesus clarified to them and said it was none. It wasn't none of it. It wasn't because his mother or father sinned. This happened so that God could get the glory out of his life.

Exactly.

And so if we are constantly assuming things without asking the Lord, we're gonna cause some wounds. We're gonna hurt people. But this, this was such a, a powerful conversation, and there will be more than one part. This was just the warm-up, and it was so good. So, so, so good. Jesus has always been the healer. He has. This isn't a new concept. Like, he was, he is, and always will be. He existed before any of us did. If you pay attention to Genesis, there are times where the book uses God, and there are times where the book uses the Lord.

Mm-hmm.

One of the instances where Genesis uses the Lord is in Genesis during the fall. It says the Lord came walking through the cool of the day. And talked to Adam and said, where are you? And I feel like God, when we need to be healed, he's asking us, where, where are you? What is going on? You know, the same habit and pattern with Cain. Your countenance has fallen. You're angry, you're upset, you're bitter. You got covetousness going on in your heart, all these things. Well, let's deal with it. And he told him the strategy. He said, if you do not subdue this, it will subdue you. It will take over you and your life. And it's like, if God in all of his power, all of his authority, can care enough about these people that we read about in scripture who we think sometimes are just A storybook. We just— we think that it's a storybook, but these are real people, you know. And if God cared and took enough intentionality to come, come and be among people who he saw were in trouble and were hurting and asking them direct questions, how much more close— the, the word says he is near to the brokenhearted. Amen. Near, not far. And so we may feel like God is far away because of our experiences with people, but something we have to make it our intention to do is to separate our experiences with people from our experience and encounters with God, because they're not the same.

Exactly. Amen.

God, he has always been after helping us to understand that everything we need is in him. If we're broken and we feel like we broken beyond repair, eventually, just like Paul said in scripture at the end of his life, he came to the conclusion that in so many words, I'm so glad that I suffered These things. And that sounds so crazy to say when you're in the fresh of all the things and the hurt and the pain and the betrayal and the friendships ending and the, uh, opportunities you thought you were gonna get but it got passed to someone else. Even being hurt about things like that and even being hurt about the fact that you thought you would be further in life than now. And you don't have all the things that you thought you would have, and so you're feeling disappointment. That's hurt too.

Hmm.

You're feeling let down. You feel like God disappointed you. Saying out loud to God, God, I feel like you should have— why didn't you do that? You know, like saying those things out loud, confessing them out loud in your heart instead of holding them here. God can be trusted. Amen. People might at times, but God can be trusted. And so we have to get in the habit of every day, even if it's for today, taking a step to say, you know what, today, instead of worrying about what's going to happen tomorrow, the day after, or what someone did yesterday, I'm going to sit myself in all of what's happening today.

Mm-hmm.

And let today work itself out and let, let myself feel all of what I need to feel and allow myself to confess all the things I need to confess. Maybe you going through— a person who's listening, you going through like I don't know why the term marital issues keeps coming up, but that's what I keep hearing. Like, you're going through all this marital stuff that is, that is happening and feeling defeated, feeling broken, feeling like God isn't working it out. And you trying to reconcile, you trying to do all the things you know to do, and it just keeps producing more brokenness, more woundedness, more hurt. Having the conversations is not helping. all the things that you keep praying and crying out to God and asking him. The truth is you can only stand in what's happening today.

Amen.

And we can only commit those things to the Lord today. Maybe you got kids, adult children who are outside of the home and they living any kind of way. You can only commit to the Lord for today.

That's right.

Even if the prayer has to be, God, help me, and leave it there, then just leave it there. God's not asking any of us when we are hurt to have words to say, to come up with the right thing to say. It's not about having the right thing to say. It's about Jesus helping the environment with us because he got all the words anyway. He is the word.

That's right.

It's something as simple as saying, you know what, I don't know. You know, so healing is accessible to all of us.

That's beautiful. If I was going to say anybody, say anything to anybody that's watching, the idea that there's not a lot of safe places to heal and them having realizing that much of the responsibility of the healing is on them, but they still long for that companionship because some people are weaker than others. And, and we do have a command in Hebrews to forsake not the assembling of ourselves, especially the all the more we see today approaching. But there, there's going to be time. Like, you have to understand, the world is wounded. The world is wounded. And the fact that you're recognizing that You need healing, and God has healing. And then you're in that process of healing just by wanting to be healed and knowing that God can do it. God has— he's laid something on you. He's actually trusting you to allow yourself to be healed. He's actually giving you a job to do, and you should not be afraid when you You don't feel peace when you walk to some church doors. You should not be this downcast and discouraged. He's working with you. I mean, he's working with everybody, but as far as you're concerned, he's working with you. And there comes a time in in in almost every sincere Christian's life where they where they question like what's going on here? Everybody's got everybody is wounded, but you you forget that was the whole thing. You got into a place where people are trying not to be wounded. But there's a there's a scripture that came to my mind strong. It's in Isaiah 63. I wrote it down because I don't have this particular verse memorized, but it says it's Isaiah 63:16. It says, "Doubtless thou art our Father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not. Thou, O Lord, art our out art our Father." Our Redeemer, and thy name is from everlasting. There comes a place in time where the people that should recognize you, should receive you, aren't prepared for you. And then you turn to the right and you said, neat, not over here either. Like, Mm-hmm. I, I've been, I've been to 3 churches in this town and I can't find— I don't feel that air of love. But God is not— it's not like he's never going to save them. It might not be the place and time, but he— if you got to worship in your home for a time before you find that place, or maybe those are— maybe one of them is the place where you're going to find your, your way, your place to serve, but he's got to do some work in you first. You're not cast off because you don't— you haven't settled into your tribe yet.

Exactly.

This, this is between you and him, and he loves you. He loves you. He's working with you, and he can— he's gonna need you to socialize in order to finish the work of healing, but he's going to give you time to prepare. He's going to pump you up while you're in the word. You're not losing time when you're praying. You're not losing time. You're not losing time. You're gaining ground, and you're going to be stronger. And God knows you may be the With your, with your low level or your mid-level of reading. God knows so many people in America don't know how to read nowadays. But like, wherever you are at, he giveth understanding to the simple, you know what I mean? He giveth understanding. You get in that word, you read the little bitty part, and you meditate on it. You, you say, God, I don't know how to talk, but what does this mean? He will talk into your mind. I know what my vocabulary was when I met Jesus. I knew how I know how I spoke, and I don't have I don't have pride, but I know I'm I don't I don't even know how to speak. I get with my people sometimes; it rubs off like when I'm back home. When I was in New Jersey like a month ago, it comes out, but I'm not like desirous that it comes out either because God has done a work in me. But God is doing a work, and you don't even Jesus said the corn is corn is perfect. When you put the seed in the ground, when the first blade comes out, when the stalk starts growing, when the when the full corn is in the ear, and and when it's ready, it's in every stage is perfect. You might be just a little bitty blade coming out of the ground, but God is God is doing a work in you, and you will you if you are healed, you will be a healer. And I just want to encourage anybody that's watching. God called you to be a healer. Not a doctor, not a nurse. He called you to be a healer. Healer of body by faith, mind, spirit. To be an instrument of his healing. That's the better way to say it. But a healer in the— we understand, like, being an instrument is being a healer. He said you'd be fishers of men. It's the Holy Spirit that calls, but somebody's throwing the line out there, right? That God is calling you to do that, and, and you shouldn't be afraid when you don't find the perfect place.

Mm-hmm. Amen. 100%. And so thank you so much, Elvin, for, for being here and sharing and giving insight, um, and partnering with us here at Thirst with Hunger, um, to further advance the message about healing and wholeness in Christ.

Amen.

I would love to say that everything in terms of how we heal or the direction in which we will heal or experience healing will be easy peasy, but there's no such thing because wounds— all wounds have to be cleaned out so you don't get infected. When we don't allow the Lord to do those things is when we get further into trouble. And to anybody who is listening, I pray that this episode was a blessing to you and that the Lord begins to reveal and start turning the wheels of healing and wholeness in your life. And letting this just be the start, just hearing the conversation and allowing the Lord to deep into your heart, places that maybe you didn't even think were still lingering around, you know, in your life, and how God wants to bring reconciliation to you first before he reconciles you to other people, if he decides to do that. And you're not wrong for leaving a place if, if God tells you to leave. You didn't leave God, you just left a space. And there are more spaces that God has for us. So, amen. Thank you all so much for listening, uh, to the Thirst with Hunger podcast. Be sure to share and subscribe and all of the things to The Way God Heals on Substack, The Way God Heals. And all of those links will be included in the description of this episode so you can find everything there. And find out more about how to get connected with Elvin and how to get connected with Thirst with Hunger and all of those other things. And so God bless you all, and thank you so much for listening to the Thirst with Hunger podcast.

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