How to Get Results on Social Media as a Speaker with Mark Saxby - 306

Hello, you are watching and listening to episode 306 of The Speaking Club Podcast. I want to start this show with a quote from marketing thought leader Frank Cooper. You as a brand have to be completely confident in your position because you will get criticism. You will have a negative reaction, and if you didn't have a negative reaction, it means you're standing neutral, and you have no point of view. And who wants to participate in that? I started this podcast for 2 reasons: because I want to help people recognise the power of stories and humour in speaking, and because I believe it's your message that counts, not the number of ums and ahs you use. There are some organisations that want to create robot speakers. They want you to sacrifice your personality in order to speak perfectly. I want to let you know that you can be yourself and a sensational speaker. So if you want to be a speaker that connects and engages authentically through stories, a speaker that gives value as well as a great performance, then welcome home. Hey, welcome to the show. I want to be real with you. I was at a funeral yesterday. It was my aunt's. My great-aunt, actually. She was 95. It was a lovely event, and it got me thinking. When I'm on my deathbed, one of the things that I'm most unlikely to say is, I wish I'd spent more time on LinkedIn. And that's probably true of you, and it's certainly true of most of the people that I speak to. They don't like social media, really. Feels like a burden. They always have this feeling that they're not doing enough on there. And it is also one of those places that you can get stuck down a rabbit hole that most often than not ends up with you feeling worse about yourself rather than better. But the thing is this, right? Social media is here to stay and it's an important tool for us to use to build our speaking careers. and market our courses, programmes, and so on, and our products. But there is a way to do social media on your own terms, and that is what we're looking for. And that's also the reason that I've brought Mark Saxby onto the show. Now, Mark is an expert in social media. You know, his business is based on social media, but he also has a strong position on the amount of time that people should be spending on social media. And I thought that was really interesting. Now, he's not just a social media expert that gets a ton of results for people. He has experience as an award-winning BBC and ITV journalist here in the UK. And he set up one of the UK's first specialist social media agencies in 2011. So, he's been around the block. And Mark and his clients have generated more than £20 million in sales on social media. So, he knows what he's talking about. He's also founded a charity called the Positive Social Charity, which he's gonna talk more about in the show, which goes into schools and works with young people how to take back control of their lives. So, he's got a lot of interesting things to say that I know are gonna add value to you. So, right now, all you need to do is sit back and find out how to make social media less faff and more fun. Let's go over to the interview. Welcome to The Speaking Club, Mark Saxby.

Hi, how are you?

Yeah, all good. We've had some technical troubles getting started this morning, but you and I both here. we're energetically, uh, aligned and it's all going to be perfect.

So like swans, we're, we're all graceful on top even though everything below us is collapsing.

Exactly. No, we're all good. So, um, thank you for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. You and I met at a professional speaking conference and had, uh, some long chats, and I thought this guy would be interesting to get on the show to share. And I attended one of your talks as well where I got a lot of value from. So the first question I've got for you, because when I heard your story I was also curious about this, is why did you leave an award-winning career as a journalist working for BBC, ITV, to switch into social media?

So I'd, um, been trained at the BBC to find news stories using Twitter, and at the time journalists weren't using social media much. And so it was— I mean, even on the course there must have been only about 4 people who were actually interested in it. So this is back in 2010. And I thought it was fascinating. And you kind of, you know, the whole thing about having conversations and reaching out to people, and as well as kind of picking up news items, was really interesting. And then I went to a cafe where they were having this kind of thing about social media to learn some more. And I found out that social media is a tool to be able to reach out and invite customers to come into this cafe had been one of the most successful things they'd done. So they would say to people, they would say to customers, come in and see us, and if you mention Twitter while you're here, we'll give you, I think, like 15% off or something like that, 10% off. They had a button on the till, which is their Twitter button, so they could record everybody who came through the door, and they found that was one of the most successful ways of bringing people into the cafe. And I thought, wow, what a great, great idea. There's clearly a business thing here. And so I teamed up with a friend who had been kind of researching inbound marketing for years. We did one Google search, found out that nobody else in the UK was doing it as a specialist social media agency. And based on that, we just set up on— it was like January 2nd in 2011. And on that day, somebody messaged us, but we were just trying to work out what name to call ourselves. Nearly called ourselves Eggy Bread Media, which would have been a terrible disaster. Status Social. Um, he, uh, we had an inquiry from somebody saying, I've heard a rumor you're setting up a social media consultancy, can I be your first customer? So, wow, we knew we were on the right lines when that came through.

Because you must have seen a lot of changes. I guess back then it was kind of the Wild West, there was all that sort of black hat tactics going on. It's definitely much more regulated Uh, today than it was back then in a, in a marketing sense? What's the sort of biggest changes that you think you've seen?

In the early days, it was much more about how does social media work. I would say that the biggest change in terms of the way we do social media, and that my understanding of social media, is that it's all very well understanding how social media platforms work. What the key thing is, understanding how to win people over using those platforms. So in the early days, I remember going in to see somebody in a business meeting and they said to me a few years later, oh, I came out thinking, what on earth were they talking about? And I wasn't sure we even knew, to be honest. But that's because it was all about, you know, we knew the platforms were there, we knew they were of use, but we weren't really sure how. Now it's like, okay, right, who's your target audience? Who are you trying to reach? And actually, how do you win them over using social media? So in some ways, where I think social media has evolved probably more than anywhere else, it's so much less that about broadcasting and saying, here I am, and it's so much more about, um, encouraging your customers to either come to you or you doing it right, going to them, i.e., being truly social. But then I think where the biggest wins are— but I mean, you know, social media has changed so much. I even thought when we set up the business, it'll only be a 3-year project and then I'll do something else. And here I am nearly 14 years later.

Wow. And how did you decide on the name of the company?

I think we came up with 3. I can't remember what the other one was. Sent them both to a branding expert who was a friend of ours, and she said, oh, one stands out— Status Social. So we thought, of course it does. Eggy Bread Media, what a bad idea that was.

Excellent. I suppose it's interesting, isn't it? Because back then in 2011, social media was in the position that I guess we're in today with AI. So like that whole, how do we use AI, um, and, and those sorts of questions are paramount at the moment, and it will probably evolve. But how much attention do you think people should be paying to AI at the moment in relation to social media?

Well, it's interesting, Sarah, because, because one of the things that I've realized is, is that more and more we're being asked to include AI in my presentations when it comes— I talk about social media. Yeah, I need to develop, and I'm going to be developing a new talk, which is ultimately how does AI fit with social media? What are the good and the bad elements? Because there's definitely some terrible ways that people are using AI to kill social media. And yet at the same time, there's some amazing tools that are out there to make your social media better and your target audience, you know, your targeting better, and all the sort of stuff that AI Does. So, I think that social media is here to stay, but actually, you've still got to be social and do it in the right way to make it work. AI will not, I don't think, will replace that. And you can often see those AI-written posts that are on social networks that are just—

Definitely horrendous.

And you know they're not going to get the traction. Okay, it saves somebody time, but it's not got them the results. And actually, if you're going to go on social media, just make it about getting results. Don't waste your time otherwise.

Yeah, no, and that's exactly what you're all about is results. I want to switch to speakers now. So how should speakers specifically be using social media and why is it important for them to do it, I guess?

So I, in my keynote, I talk about 3 key areas when it comes to using social media and they're very relatable to speakers. The first thing is If you're going to be taking all the effort to be good at speaking, if you're going to create an amazing talk or workshop, you're going to strive for excellence, then don't be shoddy on social media because unfortunately all it will make is your whole business look shoddy. So excellence is the first key thing. Everything you do on social media has got to be excellent because if it's not excellent, it won't get seen anyway. Because if it's not excellent, it won't be in line with the algorithms. It won't be seen by the people you want it to be seen by. Excellence is about writing messages to people, which is about what they want, not what you want. So that whole level of excellence, I think, is really key. I think the second thing is understanding your target audience properly. So a lot of speakers I speak to, they'll give something general. So like, for instance, one guy I remember speaking to who he was appealing to men who were ultimately struggling and under pressure and couldn't cope and burnt out. So he would've said naturally his target audience was burnt-out men. But of course, burnt-out men are quite hard to, well, one, identify on social media, but two, actually, are they brave enough to send you a message on social media to say, can I come in? So we said, actually, who's really your target audience? Well, probably your target audience are the decision-makers who will hire you to get in front of those burnt-out men. So, okay, what are the industries where those burnt-out men are likely to be in? And what's the job position of the people who are likely to hire you? So actually, their target audience wasn't really burnt-out men, It was HR people working in law, accountancy, those sort of things. So that's the second key thing. And the third key thing really is about being truly social, because if you go on social media and all you do is you talk about yourself, you talk about what's interesting to you, and you don't reach out properly, you don't engage with people, you don't respond to comments properly, you don't send messages designed to unlock people's minds. I sent a message to the head of a national, international tech company. tire-making company, to the decision-maker there, head of marketing for Europe. And within a few hours, he'd responded to say, I normally ignore all my LinkedIn messages, but next time you're passing, would you like to come for lunch?

Smashing it.

Because I'd written it with him in mind, with the value for him, with a way to make him realize actually that I had something of interest to say, and therefore invited me in. Did the same thing with the national supermarket. Within 2 minutes of my message, they said, please, can we have a coffee? Because again, I'd understood what they wanted and not necessarily what I wanted. And that's the whole thing about being social, isn't it? You don't go up to somebody in a pub and say, hello, would you go out with me? You know, you get to know them first, don't you? You find out why they're there and whether you've got anything in common and actually whether they actually really want to talk to you. And then you might say, how about go for a date? But you don't just go up to somebody and give them a kiss in the middle of a pub and hope everything's going to turn out all right, which is what too many people do on social media.

Oh, definitely. I think everyone probably listening has had those messages. I had, I had had someone reach out, connect on LinkedIn the other week, and then literally said, thanks for the connection. Do you know anyone who, do you have this issue or do you know anyone that has this issue? And I'm like, you know, I actually wrote back, does this work for you? I was just like, I've had so many of these. I'm actually just going to be cheeky now. I said, does this work for you? And they said, yes, often people, uh, people respond. And, um, I don't— they like direct messages. They don't like wasting time talking about the weather. I said, not really the weather overseas, their problems. It's just like, oh, some people you're just not going to help. Um, so—

That's just interesting, the line, because you do get people who do get some success from that, but it's more about what's the ratio of success to non-success. And actually, are you killing all those other ones along the way? So we've taken— we've helped with some people who have used automation or AI to send messages to hundreds of people. And whenever you send, and then they've been ignored because it's clear that it's not relevant to them and it's not personalized. When you then send a personalized message to them afterwards, they completely ignore it because you've handled the first one so badly.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I just want to touch back on the first point. Which was this concept of excellence. Now, your excellence might be different to my excellence, so I wondered if you could just get really clear on what the factors of excellence are that you would be advocating for people to try and reach.

Well, I would say excellence is where you're using your time in a way that's wise, that helps your business objectives be achieved, If you're not doing that, then that's not excellence. If you're alienating people along the way, that's not excellence as well. So what are the things that are key for you? You know, one of our taglines is social media with results. If I'm going to spend, you know, an hour on LinkedIn a day, I want to make sure it is really worth my while because otherwise I could be doing a whole lot of other things. And actually, it's not working for me. I should be out there networking or calling people or writing emails or just going playing with the kids. You know, why be on LinkedIn if it's not going to get the results or any social media network for that matter? So it's about what's the end result of it all?

Mm-hmm.

You know, a lot of people waste a lot of time on social media. In fact, I would say most people, or rather a lot of people who come to us, they come to us for help because they say, I've been doing social media for years and years and years, and I've not got any tangible results, or only a few tangible results, and I want to be consistent. I want to be able to do it properly. And so, kind of on the one hand, you think, great, they've come to us. On the other hand, you think, what a shame, you've wasted all these hours growing your business in another way, or actually spending time with your family.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is the thing, people do spend so much time getting also getting down rabbit holes and stuff on, on multiple platforms, you know, and some people just like overwhelmed. Should I do TikTok? Should I do, you know, um, X? Should I do LinkedIn, Facebook, et cetera? What would your advice be in this sort of vein of making the most of your time and getting the best ROI on your energy and time? Around the number of platforms people should consider, um, being active on?

Yeah, so I think again that comes down to that excellence level of where— and your target audiences— to where these target audiences is, and therefore then how and where can you then deliver something which is excellent, which is going to appeal to them. So, you know, you could be on loads of platforms, and, you know, lots of people, lots of companies come to us and say, oh yeah, my younger members of staff say I should be on— I should be on Instagram, so can you help me be on Instagram, or can we be on TikTok? And you say, well, Is that really where you're gonna get the biggest wins? Is it really worth the effort? You know, so for some companies it is, you know, depending on what kind of, who their target audience is, but it's better to do, I would say, one or at the most 2 networks really well than it is to do more than that. But again, it's where your target audience is. You know, we've got with our charity side, we're focused on the education sector. So X is great for education people, but there's also an element of them on LinkedIn as well. From from state of social point of view with business is all LinkedIn. So although I might post occasionally on on X, it's certainly something I do not waste you know any time on. Apart from just to check out the latest Grimsby Town results. Find out what people are saying. There are some things that you know you can. I think you can have fun on social media, but what's the value it's bringing to your life and to your business? And if it's not bringing you value, if you don't go away and put down if you don't put down your you know, your phone or your— or turn off your laptop at the end of the day and think, great, I, I, I've used my time valuably today by being on the networks that have made— have progressed my business or progressed my life, then actually, if you're not— if that's— you need to get off it if it's not doing that for you.

Yeah, absolutely. Amen to that. One of the things, you know, social is in your company name, social is in most of the, the whole, the, the whole of these different platforms. I consider storytelling to be part of being social. How much do you use and advocate storytelling in conversations and posts on social media?

A few years ago, I was, um, I got approached by a London company who wanted me to speak at one of their events. It's only a week away, and, uh, can you do a presentation? And my PA, who would normally put together my lovely presentations for me, was on holiday, and I thought, okay, right, I'm gonna have to do this differently. So instead of having a lovely presentation What I did is I just put together what was probably about 6 or 7 stories based around what I'd seen happen on social media for businesses, and then, you know, using an iPad as my, kind of, my prompt, I then went on stage and did this talk, and it generated more sales than any other presentation did, by miles, absolutely miles. So, that whole thing of storytelling, it gets remembered, doesn't it?

Yeah.

And the same goes for social media. When I post on social media, a lot of my content is story-based. And I often, on a regular basis, go to an event and somebody will say, oh, I love your posts on LinkedIn. And they don't love selling posts.

No.

What they love is they love story posts. A few years ago, again, I was on holiday and I thought, I'm so fed up of posting on LinkedIn, so fed up of kind of this treadmill of posting on social media. What am I going to do? And I thought, from now on, I'm going to start posting posts that change the lives of people who read them. So my aim will be, and it could be on other different subjects, but I want to have an impact on people's lives. Now, whether it's impacting their lives through social media or through being a better dad or being a better husband or spending less time on their phone or whatever it might be, that was my attitude that changed. And what was fascinating is that when I started posting these things, that was when I started getting so much more feedback from people saying that they loved my posts. And of course, that made me more honest, likable, authentic. So people want to work with me more.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a potentially people listening may be thinking, well, you know, in terms of, again, story is an abstract in some ways, it's a word that can mean different things to different people. And I just wanna be clear to people, and probably you might have a view on this too, that story can be literally a few words. It doesn't have to be this long thing. And I would imagine potentially when you reached out to, to those people on the LinkedIn message, there was a mini story in there for those people, and that was what connected with them and got you the results there.

Absolutely. And one of the things that we do in our— in our— so with our LinkedIn work, with all our social media workshops, we always, we always, um, include follow-up because 55% of the effectiveness of a workshop comes from the follow-up. So we always offer follow-up. And in that follow-up, what you find is that month 1, And they've done a few bits, but they've not done an awful lot. Often they've not posted. They're still nervous about it. So, you know, I obviously encourage them. And then one of the things that I do is by month 1 or 2 is I say, if you're still struggling, right, at the end of every end of the week, just write down what you've done that week on a LinkedIn post. You know, because people love that because it's, again, it's just simple storytelling and you're painting a picture of what you do at work and you'll find that people will engage with it. And it's a really interesting way of being able to help people tell stories without realizing they're kind of, you know, they don't need to be amazing authors or amazing writers to do so. We've all got stories, haven't we? A story is just like somebody saying, what did you do today? Well, I went in the garden and I pulled out some sprouts. You know, that's a story, isn't it? I mean, okay, it's not very interesting.

Yeah, exactly.

Don't put that on LinkedIn, Sarah. Do not put that on LinkedIn.

I won't. I will not. I don't— I do like a Brussels sprout. I'm looking forward to Christmas because That's the one time of the year that I'm allowed to have Brussels sprouts.

I once grew Brussels sprouts in the garden, and wow, Brussels sprouts on the vine, oh, amazing.

They're good, are they?

It's a game changer, life changer.

Interesting. I do see them in those posh supermarkets, so maybe I'll fork out for, for some extra special Brussels sprouts this year. Excellent. Now, the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about and get your opinion on is whether you would ever advocate for speakers to use paid social media, so, uh, adverts. Is that something that you think would be valuable?

I think again, I think this is about whether you're— whether you can target your, uh, target audience with those ads. So are the parameters narrow enough? Because you don't want to send off to, you know, get your ad in front of people who aren't going to buy. So they've got to be pretty narrow to know that actually you're going to hit those people. So that's the first thing. The second thing is where I find a lot of people go wrong with social media ads is they don't have a process. So what they'll do is they'll do an advert and it will take them to the homepage of their website. And of course, the homepage of the website is very rarely the best place to take anybody to. And if you've got a particular target, you know, campaign, you should be thinking, right, okay, I need a landing page. What's on that landing page? How am I going to get them to conversion? What are the signals I need to give them? I remember working with a— just for the— I don't mean it's not to do with speaking, but it kind of tells the story— working with an insurance company who had spent thousands of pounds on LinkedIn ads trying to recruit people. And I looked at their landing page and I said, nobody's going to want to come and work for you looking at this. There's no reason to come and work. You've just got— there's just nothing there. So we spent a month working on their landing page, and then I created the adverts and we launched the campaign, and they had 12 applicants in the first 2 weeks after having none for the previous 3 months. Saved them a fortune in recruitment because we looked at the whole process. Okay, who are these people? These people who are they were trying to recruit were risk averse. So actually understanding them because it was it was an insurance brokerage, understanding them to know what they needed to then make a conversion when they landed on the landing page. Also understanding them enough to know what the advert should look like to make them want to move, and then actually what was the process behind the scenes. So when they made the application. Who did what? You know, the amount of people I work for, companies I work for who are sending the leads and they don't do anything with them, you know, they don't have any proper follow-up and so they throw them away and they waste them. Oh, it's just heartbreaking. You know, fortunately I don't work with anybody like that at the moment. And in fact, I won't work with anybody like that again because it is so frustrating, you know, when the people don't get the results. So I think, yes, use ads, but do it, well, again, going back to my first point, do them excellently or don't do them at all because otherwise it's just a complete waste of money.

And I think what you said there is such an important thing because when I work with speakers, the first place we start, and I'm sure this is the same as you've been saying with everyone that you work with, is the audience. So many people look at the problem from their perspective and forget about the customer and the audience and how they see the problem and how they think, feel, you know, talk about it, what actions they, all of that stuff just You know, because you get to a certain point and it's so difficult for you to get to go back and step into their shoes, you are not making the connections that you need to make in order to bring people into your world and then build that trust and, you know, confidence in you to take them forward. And that's, that's a really strong example of why that's so important.

Yeah, years ago I wanted to get a job in BBC Radio 5 Live, so I got into— they were moving to Salford, so I thought, okay, this is an opportunity because I didn't want to move to London. And I had a meeting, well, I got in touch with the head of news and I said, I'd like to have a chat with you about opportunities, and he said yes. And I was at this conference in London, he came down and he said, I've got 10 minutes, Mark, what do you think of BBC Radio 5 Live? And to paraphrase, I said, it's rubbish, it's made by journalists for journalists, and he said, that's I agree. When do you want to start? And the trouble was, is, was that, was that the programs were being put together, the target audience was 35 to 55 or something like that. And the people who were putting together the shows were journalists in their 20s. So the content was interested— interesting to journalists in their 20s. And therefore then the figures were falling on the station. And that's what we do. We put out, we put out content which is actually more interesting to us than it is to actually the target audience. And if we can change it around, actually you can see big differences.

One of the things that I've noticed from conversations that I've had with you prior to this, and in some of your responses to the questions that I ask, is— and the stories that you tell— is your directness and whizzy-witness, if that makes sense. So that, that whole concept of what you see is what you get, is that part of your— you know, I know it's something that comes naturally to you, but I think Is that a big part of why people work with you? It feels like you just tell it like it is.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it is. Well, again, that insurance broker I talked to you about earlier on, and her case study on our page, and she says this isn't going to be a, like, a, you know, fluffy relationship. Mark will tell you if you're getting something wrong. He will, he will encourage you to change. He'll keep you accountable. He will make sure you're doing what you promised to do, your side of the bargain. Um, because, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to waste my time with people who aren't really going to you know, do things properly. Now, I still use tact and I still work hard on making sure I do it in the right way. But yes, you've got to be upfront about these things. So, if somebody says to me, what do you think of my social media? Or, you know, I get people who, as part of the support, they send me their social media posts and wow, some of them are right car crashes.

Yeah.

And I don't use this phrase car crash, but I definitely come back and I say, yeah, let's think about how you could do this differently. And what about doing this? And what about doing that? I don't then put it out there. Thinking it's gonna be easier for them because it's not gonna get them results. And a good example of that would be somebody I was on a support call with, another speaker, and he said, I've written a post for tomorrow, and it was all about Liz Truss. And I said, well, let me— read me the post. And he read me the post and I said, yeah, I said, great content, you know, after the first 2 lines, but top lines, it's just not gonna work. You're not gonna get any engagement. People aren't gonna read it. So how about we come up with this? We use this top line instead. Came up with the top line. Not only was it his most successful post ever, it generated his biggest ever, uh, sale.

Interesting. And I think this is where your journalist, uh, journalistic background comes in as well, because so many people— there's that term burying the lead, and that's sort of the ability to hook people in and, and get the right, um, bit of the story at the top is something that probably comes to you quite naturally, but other people struggle with.

Is that Yes, I would agree, but I do think it's definitely teachable. We've been working with a very small company in northern Lincolnshire that's a Christmas tree grower, and she, all the posts, you know, we're on the last kind of months or so of her support, and her early posts, they were all, you know, the top lines weren't very good at all. She now, she sends them through to me and I'm like going, wow, another great post. I don't need to make any changes, you know, and she's had no experience of writing in terms of you know, my experience, but she's picked it up and I think it's easy to pick up when you, when, you know, because I'm good at explaining the principles.

Yeah, exactly. It's that teach a person to fish thing. So that's, that's really cool. Now we might have actually done some of these already, but I wanted to pull it together into your sort of top 3 tips for speakers in getting gigs through social media.

So, well, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do those 3 things again. because I think it's so important. One is be excellent at every single thing you do on social media. So if you're going to be excellent, that means the whole gamut— understanding what you're doing on there, how it works, you know, what— being consistent, answering people properly, those sort of things. 2 is really truly understanding who your target audience is and making sure your messages are designed to make— give them value, but also your posts have then also got them clearly in mind. And if it's not got them in mind, then delete the post. The 3rd thing is being social. Be truly social. Stop diving in for the kiss. And get to know people first and talk about what's of value to them and not what's of value to you.

Yeah, absolutely. I think going for engagement rather than conversion, so getting the thing, is so much more powerful in terms of building that relationship upfront because people don't, you know, it takes a long time sometimes for people to make a decision. And if you're forcing them from a yes or no today, you're losing gigs in the future that you might have had if you'd have taken your time to get to know them, build that relationship, and, and, and so on. Really good advice.

There is a balance as well though, Sarah. I don't know, you maybe have— I don't know if you have the same experience as me, but years ago when I was in sixth form, there was a girl there called Joanne, and I quite liked her. And I probably took about a year to try and befriend her, get her to think I was funny, and then finally asked her out. And, uh, you could just see in her mind it was like, no, mate, be your friend. Because she'd been in the friend zone far too long. And so sometimes, actually, yes, there's an element of being a friend and getting to know somebody, but you've also got to actually pluck up the courage to ask the question as well.

Absolutely.

Yeah, blah blah, have you thought about using me? What do you need? You know, being— so don't hold off forevermore. There's a balance.

Yeah, and you're also very good at that. So having that call, you know, call to action, even if, you know, even if it's a soft one, but leading them to, to, um, the ask and, and making that ask, I think that's a really important Thank you for making that. Now, a question that I wanted to ask you is, why do you advocate for people to be more Colin?

So, um, Colin Bloomfield was a, uh, was a journalist who I worked with at the BBC, uh, and, uh, he sadly lost his life to cancer about in 2015 when he was just 33. Um, and he, but he was, um, my breakfast producer, and when he started on the breakfast production shift. He told me he hated it because he never got away on time. So I said, okay, right, I'm gonna watch you and just try and work out why it's taking you so long. Is it process? Is it, you know, are you not being efficient? But what I realized was, was he had MSN Messenger open, if you remember that.

Yeah.

Like a version of WhatsApp. And he would forever be writing, he'd be writing a script for the breakfast show, a message would pop up, he'd be distracted, he'd answer the message, and he'd go backwards and forwards all through the evening. So of course he was late. So I said to him, you know, don't look at MSN Messenger and you'll get away on time. And he was doubtful. But of course the next morning he came and he said, oh yes, Mark, I got away I'm way on time. So, my talk, my workshop, Be More Colin, is based around the fact that the average time somebody spends looking at their mobile phone during the working day is 2 hours. So, every day, they're wasting 2 hours of productivity by looking at their phone. So, and of course, every time you look at your phone, then to actually be effective, because if you task switch from your phone to a computer or something else, It takes you about 15 minutes or so to be fully effective. So, some people are never effective their entire working day. So, therefore then, I thought, okay, this matches up very much with our charity work in terms of going into schools and helping young people spend less time on their mobile phones and on social media. So, I thought, okay, let's do it into work. So, we go into work. We ultimately say to teams, this is how you can break your addiction to social media on your phones, and these are the benefits you will experience. By by not being on them. So yes, you'll get away on time. You'll have a better work-life balance. Your mental health will be better. You'll actually get to know your colleagues at lunchtime because not everyone's going to be on their phones booking their holiday or shopping. You're actually going to start chatting to each other again. You know these sort of things. And actually also as well for an employer, another benefit for employers is is actually their retention rate goes up because people feel like they're more part of a community and they actually enjoy their they get to know their colleagues more. You know somebody said to me yesterday, they said, "Oh, at lunchtime," he said, "Everyone goes goes and sits in their cars and goes on their phones rather than sits." in the canteen and chat. That is so sad, isn't it?

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I remember walking, um, I was at some sort of event and there was a family and every member of the family was walking with their heads down, not talking to each other, looking at their phones. And it's just like, that's a great family outing. That is, it's just, it is sad, isn't it?

What's interesting is, is that people, when we do this BMO calling sessions, people change. You know, there's no, you know, I never have anybody argue with me because they all realize they're on their phones too much and it's getting in the way of them living their best lives. And the commitment, I mean, it's fascinating how, you know, the last one I did with a big regional bus company and how the operations manager messaged me to say that his phone now lives outside of his office. So, he can still hear it if it rings, but he's not picking up all the time to look at WhatsApp messages or be distracted by, you know, how tall Taylor Swift is or whatever else it might be on his mind.

Oh, that's really good. I remember one, one of the people that I work with has got a little safe and they put the phone in the safe and it's time locked so that they can absolutely focus on, you know, particularly on the copywriting side they were working on. So uninterrupted focus, which leads to so much, you know, great work and great ideas. But it is having that discipline to put the phone away. It's a really, really strong message. Cool. Now, you always talk about social media with results. How do you measure your sales and your results through social media?

So I always think that social media is very much part of the journey. It's very rare that somebody will buy just through social media without a phone call or something, especially when you're Talking about all sorts of things that come into when you're booking a speaker. So one of the things that I would look at is what's their passage been? So one of our biggest clients was a big national, international construction company, and they were recommended by an agency in London they were working with to talk to me. He'd never met me, he'd just seen me on LinkedIn. He then sent the CEO my LinkedIn profile, the CEO looked at my LinkedIn profile, and on my profile, was some videos of me speaking. He watched the videos and he got in touch. Now you look at that and you think, okay, what was the path to that? The referral, the fact that the guy knew me from LinkedIn, the LinkedIn profile was clearly written in a way to convert, the videos were on there, so the videos are part of it as well, and then obviously we had the phone call and therefore then the booking. So lots of things came into that in terms of how we measure that success. Another company I know, what they did is they used LinkedIn as a way to get in. So they're a training company that work doing mental health training for employees. They use LinkedIn as a way to get in with the big HR people in top companies in the UK. And then what happened was the people who worked with them loved them so much, they then referred them and made introductions to loads and loads of other big companies, and they made more than £1 million in sales because of it. Now you could say, oh, okay, well, you know, that sale was a lot of that, that was just down to the lady from that big retailer introducing them. Yes, but she only knew about them because of LinkedIn. So I would say actually LinkedIn played a massive part in that £1 million. So it's thinking, where does everything fit together? And that's where I think the true measure comes in. Sometimes it's more direct when you're working with a B2C company. If you can work out how many widgets they've sold, then great. But often with B2B, you've got to think of the bigger picture. Again, well, actually, that speaker I mentioned early on, With the Liz Truss post, he actually—I said to him, "Have you had any? Have you had any success?" And he said, "Oh yeah, we've had my biggest ever booking." And I said, "Oh, how did it come through?" He said, "Oh no, sorry." He said, "It was just through text." I said, "Oh, have you got the text message?" And he said, "Oh yeah." And he got the text his phone out, and his text message said it, and he read it, and it said, "He said, 'Oh, I spotted your post on LinkedIn. I thought you'd be the perfect speaker.' Oh yes," he said. "It did come through LinkedIn, didn't it?' But in his mind, it was the text because it was somebody he knew. But this person didn't realize what he did and hadn't seen him for ages. But now, because he was posting a really successful post on LinkedIn, he'd seen him, it reminded him, and they've gone, and then there was the sale.

Excellent. And I think that's true. I think you're absolutely right. There's no way that people, you know, find you or, you know, social media is going to be a part of it at some point in the pipeline. So, um, this is why it's so important. Excellent. Um, You mentioned about your work with schools and education. Can you tell me a bit more about that and why you set up Positive Social, which I think is what the company or the organization's called?

Yeah, so about, um, 9 years ago, we started realizing that young people were being adversely affected by the effects of social media. And although, you know, as a business, social media obviously is an amazing tool, for children, you could just see the damage it was having. So we did some pilots, but then Status Social took off and it was just so difficult to follow up. And then during COVID we found time to register as a charity. I went down to 4 days a week on Status Social to make 1 day a week for Positive Social. And we just started reaching out. So what we do is we go into schools, we run interactive sessions with young people, and there's kind of 3 key areas. One is, what's their behavior like on social media and are they upsetting other people? And what can they do about that? Are they damaging their futures? And also, do they recognize that Actually, you know, a lot of doctors liken our addiction to social media as that experienced by crack cocaine addicts. Do you want to be addicted to social media? And actually, the young people don't want to be, and they've never realized how addicted they are. They've never realized how they've been played by the social media companies. And then the third element is how can you live a better life where social media is part of it but doesn't take over the whole of it? And then they make thousands, thousands and thousands of commitments. So in the last, uh, 2 and a bit years We've got in front of them, it must be getting on for 7,500 young people already.

Really?

We've gone from just me delivering it, we've now got a team of 30 potential deliverers across the UK. Uh, it's just going, taking off. We do parent sessions as well, uh, we do teacher sessions, um, and we're in massive demand. I mean, every, every week we're getting more and more schools coming on board because as far as we know, we're the only charity doing this in terms of on a social media focus. And not saying social media is bad, but actually saying social media is here to stay, but how can you fit— how can you make sure it doesn't take over your life?

That's a really powerful message, and I think you're effectively also setting the kids up to be more Colin in the future as well. I mean, that's a, that's a whole— and also all the well-being stuff, that's really cool. So, um, that's a whole separate organization from Status Social. So if anyone's listening that wants to get someone in to talk to their school, that is the place for them to go.

Yeah, just positivesocial.org.uk.

We'll put that link in the show notes too. Now, another thing that came through strongly when I spoke to you, uh, at the, uh, the entertainment— was the entertainment night, I think, um, on the Saturday at that conference— was, uh, your spirituality and a really strong um, part, an important part of your life, but I feel like it also bleeds into your business. Is that true? Does it affect the way that your company operates?

Yeah, so I'm a, I'm a follower of Jesus, um, and, you know, just in terms of the fact that our business is a values-led business, so operate according to several values, the top 3 being excellent, because I think that's about, you know, doing things well, honest, and being ethical. And again, our mission statement is to positively impact the lives of everybody we come into contact with, whichever, however that is. And that then, it bleeds into everything. And it also gives me a feeling of joy and of, for instance, it's been quite a tough year this year, I think, since March time, since the general election, the uncertainty. It's been a challenging year. But you know what? I still feel that complete joy and satisfaction being held in the Father's arms and not having to worry about anything. And that is a great gift when you know, when you recognize you're a child of the Creator of the universe. So those things do come into everything. And it also means the way I act in terms of what time I give and how I behave towards others. You know, I'm constantly challenging myself, Mark, is that really the best you? You know, is that really how you should be responding? You know, wanting to grow, wanting to change, wanting to be more like Jesus. And the reward is there when I'm like that, you know, there is great rewards.

And was this— is this something that you've always felt, or was there a turning point in your life where this became more important to you?

Yes, I was 21 and I visited a friend of mine in Canterbury, and I fell out with her over an organic chicken. It's a long story. And she went out and I was left with her flatmates and one of her flatmates was telling me all about her— about she had a relationship with Jesus. And I thought, what? You can have a relationship with Jesus? See, I'd been brought up a Catholic, so therefore then God was just a scary, scary being and I kind of walked away from church. It wasn't relevant to me or interesting to me. But then suddenly I found out this relationship existed and when she spoke about the relationship, her face just glowed. And I just said, I want what you've got. And so I went back to Hull where I was living at the time and just walked into a local church and kind of all started from there. And so it was, and it's, you know, none of my family follow Jesus in terms of my wider family. My immediate family do, but yeah, it's been a great journey though. I mean, that's, you know, 30-odd years of just, yeah, amazing adventures and joy and a life full of meaning and abundance.

And when she spoke to you, when she, that girl that spoke to you, um, was it— it was a combination of what she said in terms of was there transformation in her life, or was it just the way she appeared when she was sharing about it that had the biggest impact on you?

It was when— it was as she was sharing, her face glowed in a way. I don't mean like a supernatural glow, although maybe it was. It was just more that she— you could see there was a deep love there. And, and it was interesting because she said, you know, I'm not a very good a good Christian. I'm a— I'm, you know, I'm, I'm not perfect. I don't, I don't, I don't behave in the way that, you know, maybe I should do. But you know what, I, I'm still loved by Jesus. And that honesty again and authenticity just shone out, and that was what was so attractive.

It's nice to hear that it, it sort of underpins everything that you do across life and business as well. And certainly going on your website, you get the values is the first thing that sort of puts straight in there with that, which is, uh, which is really cool. Now, before we turn to the standard questions that I ask guests, I wanted to ask about your own speaking. So you speak for fee, but also I think you also use speaking as part of your sales pipeline. Is that true? And how has that been working for you?

So yeah, I would still probably say if I look back that most of my talks have been free. They're designed in a way that make people get to know me, build up trust, and either refer me or work with me. So I don't find, you know, they're fine as long as, again, it's down to the target audience, of course. When you speak to someone, is the target audience the right one? And that's been good. And then what I've over the last, I mean, I joined the Professional Speaking Association in around February last year. And just, you know, I just saw the potential to become a better speaker because although I've been speaking for 13 years professionally, actually I'd never really taken it seriously. And so to, you know, learning how to be a better speaker, how to construct a talk really well, and then also recognizing that I've got so much value that I should be charging and charging more than I was charging before. So then I've really pushed that out and yeah, I mean, just been booked for a national conference in January. Somebody called up yesterday again, wants to talk to me about booking to go into their workplace to do loads of talks there. So there's definitely, I find, what I'm finding is that there is a slow uphill, uphill? I'm not sure it's uphill, but it's certainly a slow climb to where I want to be. And my aim is to then get more of those sort of talks because again, it's that whole thing, isn't it? You go into business or you go into a conference and you speak about Be More Colin, or you speak about how to get success through social media, and again, you can just see people's faces light up because they go, wow, actually this guy speaks sense. You know, somebody— people say to me, Mark, I've never— I've heard loads of social media talks before and they're all— and you know, they're pretty bland, but yours stood out because it had real-life examples, it was authentic, it was funny, and therefore, yeah, they want to refer me. So I think, you know, I think the potential And the way is up, as Yaz would say.

Yeah, exactly. And I think this is a really important point though, for people to understand who are maybe starting out on their speaking journey is that a lot of people fall by the wayside because those speaking fee gigs are later on down the line. So, you've got to have a way to generate speaking-driven income, even from the free gigs. So, that's something to think about whilst you're building your reputation, your skills, and all of that stuff on the way to those high-paid speaking gigs. Thank you for sharing that. That's really, really helpful. Okay. So first standard question that I've got for you is, what's the best thing that speaking has done for you?

Given me confidence to believe that actually I have something of value to give.

Excellent. Cool. And next question. Has there been a gig that you've done or any sort of speaking presentation thing that you've done that you think, oh my, I would just want to put that out of my mind. It just did not go well. Has anything happened like that for you?

I mean, many, many, many years ago when I was young and foolish, I went to a networking event on the evening before an early morning speaking gig. And there was free alcohol, and I don't know why, why even, I just completely forgot that I was spit-talking the next day. I remember, oh, just horrendous, throwing up before I left to go there. Oh, just awful, you know, standing there telling them I was ill. Well, actually, of course, I wasn't really ill. I was just completely hungover. Just embarrassing. Just embarrassing. I mean, what on earth was I thinking? I mean, I'm glad, I mean, this is like the be 13 years ago, 14 years ago, but wow, what was I thinking? Yeah, gosh.

Something you've probably never done since.

No, well, no, nowadays I won't even have a, I won't even have an, you know, often have an alcoholic drink before, um, the night before I go to a gig. I don't even drink coffee before I do a speaking gig, let alone have alcohol. You know, I, I'm much more careful now. I drink so much water in the lead-up to, to speaking gigs. Um, but yeah, Yeah, what an idiot I was.

But we all make those, those mistakes, and it's getting back on the horse afterwards, isn't it? That's great. Um, next question: what's the book that's had most impact on your life and why?

Um, I mean, in reality, it's going to be the Bible and the Gospels. I love the Gospels. I just— learning about how to live better life without feeling like I'm under rules and regulations, but just the freedom that Jesus gives has been just been amazing. And there's so much depth in those Gospels, you know, when you read what Jesus says, I'm just blown away by just how, how much wisdom there is there that makes so much sense. And yeah, I just find that astonishing. In terms of other books, oh gosh, I mean, What's my— so many. I mean, The E-Myth by Michael E. Gerber. That was a great book. Really, really useful when we had a bigger team. What else have I read? Oh, really, actually, I'll tell you my book that really has had the biggest impact in terms of business and my speaking business was Value-Based Fees by Weiss. What's his first name?

Don't worry. We'll find it and put it in.

Alan. I can't forget Alan. Alan Weiss. And that was all about how to value yourself as a speaker in the way that's actually going to get people to buy from you, but also then giving you self-confidence. And intriguingly, I mean, I bought that book and it was the most expensive book I bought in my life. I think it cost me £42. The new version's £60-something, but I generated in my first proposal using his principles, I generated 3 times more in that sale than I had done in previous sales.

Interesting. Oh, that's brilliant. I shall check it out. I haven't come across that book, so I will look it up. That's brilliant. So it's just, it gave you confidence and it gave you a structure to follow to make that difference.

Yeah, I think the key thing is it made you— because one of the things what we often do is we charge by, and speakers do this, we charge by day rates. But actually, of course, that's not really why we should always be charging. We should be charging by what's the value to a client. So when a client came to me and Mark, I'd like some LinkedIn help. And I said, well, have you ever had any success in the past? And they said, oh no, only once by accident. It was worth £17 million. I said, wow, £17 million. That's quite a lot. So as you can imagine, my fee for running the LinkedIn workshop for them was significantly more than a lot of other companies, because I knew that if they put my training into practice, they could make 17 times, 20, 30, 40 times million if they put it into practice. So therefore, then of course the value is there for them. But if somebody's selling something that's, you know, gonna— it's gonna be a struggle, or widgets or whatever it might be, clearly then you've priced accordingly. So the book's very much about understanding where the value is, recognizing and helping them to identify the value, and then therefore then positioning yourself to say, right, well, if I— if we work together here, the value you'll get will be enormous. Therefore, then we should work together again, and therefore this is the fee.

Yeah, it makes absolute sense. And I think that's the— that's the thing when people— if you can do that in any sort of sales conversation as well, If you can get them to identify the value, uh, and, you know, then you're talking about different numbers to, to, you know, today rates and hourly rates and all of that good stuff. That's great. Um, what's the best— and this might be the same thing, I don't know— what's the best bit of business advice you've had and why?

I don't think I've ever been told anything that's more useful rather than just reading something. I mean, because that Alan Weiss bit was Dynamite, and it's definitely changed the way we do our business. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, one of the stories that, one of the few years ago, and maybe it's not the best bit, probably the worst bit, but it maybe cemented what I really thought. Somebody said to me, um, I was saying how we've been a social media agency for, I don't know what it was, maybe 3 or 4 years at the time, and they said, what's your turnover? And our turnover was pretty small at the time, it might have been like £100,000 or something like that, and he said, You've been going for 3 years and you're only turning over £100,000. That's a right failure. Some business coach said this to me. Clearly gets a lot of clients. And I went home and I said to Kerry, I said, gosh, this guy's just said this. I feel rubbish. And she said, yeah, but his measure of success is not the same as ours, is it, Mark? Our success isn't about the financial side. Our success is based on so much more than that. We're not trying to get rich. We're trying to do something that's actually worthwhile. And actually, that was probably the best bit of advice I got was from my own wife.

There you go.

Get the balance in life right, which is actually, don't worry about what other people think because their worldview is different from my worldview. So, don't try and be— don't compare yourself to other people. Anyway, the business coach, to give him credit, he did message me a day later to apologize for being so rude and asked if I'd like to catch up because he really admired our values.

You should probably need to adopt some of them by the sound of it. Excellent. All right, uh, last question then, and I have a feeling I might know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask anyway. If you could choose one mentor, and they can be alive or dead, fictional or non-fictional, who would you choose and why?

So a mentor in life or a mentor in business?

Uh, up to you. It's your interpretation.

I mean, the obvious answer would be Jesus, but then, you know, let's go, let's go for the big man. Let's go for, let's go for the Almighty God instead. I mean, I don't know, it's so difficult, isn't it? Because I think, you know, when I think about humans, you know, there's people have got their own strengths, haven't they? And there's some people I think, you know, you know, it'd be great to spend time with them. You know, it'd be good to spend time with— I'd be intrigued to talk to Richard Branson just to find out, you know, what makes him tick. I'd, you know, there's people like that that I think are really good. Oh, I look Seeing, spending time with Alan Weiss would be interesting as well, but I don't think I want him as a mentor. But you have all these people that you almost need a composite of it all to get somebody who actually would want to mentor you. I think the challenge is that, again, it's about the values fit, isn't it? Which is probably why I end up thinking more about Jesus first, because actually I want somebody who's got the same values fit as me and doesn't just want, oh, Mark, you should be making more money. You need to be increasing your prices. You need to be doing doing this. this, you need to be doing that. So that, that's quite a challenging— and I wonder whether a lot of men, people who might say mentors in this podcast, might end up actually, if they met them, would they really want them to be their mentors after they meet them in real life?

Yeah, I figured it might be Jesus, but I did want to check in with you. It makes absolute sense. Well, listen, Mark, thank you so much for a great conversation and some wonderful tips and advice for people around how to use social media to get results, also how to, you know, use social media sensibly, you know, and allowing them to do the things that really matter in life. I think there's really important points too. If people would like to work with you or book you to speak, where's the best place for them to go?

So LinkedIn's a great place for messaging me. You can do that through Mark Saxby. You can find me on there quite easily. social media consultants, or there's our website statussocial.co.uk. And I'm on, I am on the other networks, although not that active. You can probably get me for a DM through X, but, or just drop me an email. It's mark@statussocial.co.uk.

Smashing. Well, thank you again. Really appreciate it, Mark, and good luck for the rest of the year and with everything else that you're doing with Positive Social as well.

Great. Thanks for having me on, Sarah.

Welcome. So, hope you got a lot out of that. Did you get some ahas? Have you got a social media strategy? Are you doing the right things in the right places? Are you targeting the right people? Could you be more intentional with your outreach and your conversations on social media? I know it threw up a lot of things for me to go and check in on and have a look at in relation to the way that I use social media. And as I say, I hope it gave you a few aha moments too, or at least a sort of curiosity about what you're doing and how it measures up to the way that Mark was sharing we should be doing things. Now, if you did get value, then I would be really grateful if you could let Mark know. I'm sure he'd be absolutely thrilled to hear from you if you picked up something from the show that's going to help you out. That gets you to look at things in a different way. And do go and check out his website, Status Social, if you want to book Mark to come and talk to your organisation, to help your organisation, or I think he does work with individuals too, if that's something that you want to look into. Well, all that's left for me to say is to thank you for choosing to watch or listen to The Speaking Club. I know your time is precious. There's a lot of other Um, things that you could be doing with it right now. And I value it and I appreciate you and I do my best to give you value and make it a great ROI for you. And if you love the show and you're a first-time listener, then do subscribe to the YouTube channel if you're watching, or subscribe to the, um, uh, podcast wherever you're listening, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or, or the good podcast apps. And if you, if you think it's great, leave a rating or a comment below, um, or a review wherever you're listening. That would be amazing. It helps the show and, uh, it helps other people to, uh, find it as well. Well, I'll catch you next time, but until then, you know what I'm gonna say. Well, you do if you've listened to the show before anyway. It won't be a surprise at all. Bye. I'm gonna say go out, grab your life by the nuts, and get cracking. Bye-bye. It's a nightmare. You're an expert with so much to say, but now that you've been booked to speak, you're struggling to know exactly what to talk about. You want a talk that engages the audience and wins you new clients without you losing your personality or anyone feeling pitched to. But what happens when you sit down to create that talk is that you end up staring at a blank page for ages, or worse, surrounded by hundreds of sticky notes with content that you could include. With so much material, you just don't know where to start or finish. Don't worry, because many experts like you face exactly the same challenge, and that's why I created the Blank Page to Stage Guide. In just 50 minutes, this breakthrough resource is going to help you identify the big idea of your message, make it relatable for the audience that you're speaking to, and convey it all in a way that gets the audience inspired and on board with your idea. And it works even if you have tons of material or your subject feels less than exciting. If you want to cut through swathes of content and get a talk that you're excited to share, your audience loves, and wins you new clients, then grab your Blank Page to Stage guide from saraharcher.co.uk/newguide-tsc. Oh, I forgot to say, it's completely free. Enjoy!