The Inside Track on Becoming More Bookable as a Speaker with Seth Dechtman - 308

Hello and welcome to episode 308 of The Speaking Club Podcast. I want to open this show with a quote from the one and only Steve Jobs: Master the topic, master the message, and the delivery. I started this podcast for 2 reasons: because I want to help people recognise the power of stories and humour in speaking, And because I believe it's your message that counts, not the number of ums and ahs you use. There are some organisations that want to create robot speakers. They want you to sacrifice your personality in order to speak perfectly. I want to let you know that you can be yourself and a sensational speaker. So if you want to be a speaker that connects and engages authentically through stories, a speaker that gives value as well as a great performance, Then welcome home. Hey, great to have you watching the show if you're on YouTube or listening to the show if you're joining me on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or one of the wonderful podcast apps. So I am absolutely thrilled to share this episode with you because it's answering a question or contributing to answering a question that I get asked an awful lot. How can I get booked and paid to speak more consistently? And I have my own views on that as a speaker and a speaking coach, and I share those with you and will continue to do so. But do you know, there's another angle to this, and that is from the other side of the table. And I wanted to bring someone onto the show to give their view on this and, and other issues and topics surrounding the question of getting booked and being marketable as a speaker, and so I've got Seth Deckman on. He is from the Keynote Curators. He works with loads of different organisations and conferences to book the right speaker for their event, so he's seeing, he's kind of like the middleman, the broker between the organiser and the speaker, and he has worked with some of the biggest names in speaking. He has got a hot Rolodex, and, and so his view on what we need to be doing is going to be worth every second that you're listening to. It's worth its weight in gold. So, he's going to be talking about the brief, what they're looking for, why he chooses to work with some speakers over others, And all sorts of things. I know you're going to get a ton of value. I hope that it's going to open up your eyes to things maybe you'd not thought about before, um, and maybe doubled you down on some things that you are doing right. It's not easy, but it is doable, and this is going to help you get there. So enough from me. Let's switch over to my interview with Seth Deckman. Welcome to The Speaking Club, Seth Deckman.

Thank you so much. It's great to be with you.

I'm really excited to have you on the show. I think this is gonna be an episode that my audience is gonna be desperate to get hold of because you are a, a speaker curator, a speaker broker, and, um, I know that people will have lots of interest in your view of the world. But before we get into the nuts and bolts of that, I wanted to ask you, how did you get into this, Seth? How did you end up doing this?

All pathways kind of led me to this moment in my life. I would say the inflection point was post-9/11. I had had another business and it was a travel business. And if you can imagine, after 9/11, nobody was really traveling. And after kind of losing my balance there for a while, I found my footing with an old friend of mine who was in Los Angeles and had heard of somebody doing a business like this. And after we had a few conversations, we ended up getting some laptops and some cell phones and learning about speakers and finding buyers and just kind of cutting our teeth along the way.

How different did you find it immediately? Was there a lot of stuff that you transferred from what you were doing before, or was this this complete, like, change?

No, it's a great question. I mean, at the heart of the matter, I'm a sales organization. So my, my curation and my interest and my appetite and my inclination to learn about speakers, read books, uh, watch videos, stay on top of topics, all that is just naturally there. It's in my DNA. Um, but I can know everything about every possible speaker, but if I don't have any buyers, then it doesn't mean anything. So the, uh, the universal aspects of the previous businesses that I had had, and particularly the one that I had to close after 9/11, where I'm generating buyers and client relationships that are going to be converted into longstanding transactional relationships where I'm booking speakers. It was the same aspects where, um, I just had to kind of turn the corner a little bit on what it was that I was selling. So I hope that answers your question.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. What, um, what I think it might be worth doing is just getting really clear for the audience on exactly where you are in the speaking industry, because we have speaker agencies, speaker bookers, and all sorts of how, uh, bureaus. How, how would you describe what you do for, for, and who your clients are first and foremost?

So my clients are meeting professionals, event producers, event marketers. It could be a marketing team, a trade association, and anybody that is involved in producing a conference, an event, a meeting where on the agenda, there is a place for a speaker. Also, we do entertainment as well. We've done big name bands, mentalists, all sorts of aspects of entertainment, the Harlem Globetrotters, a lot of singers and jugglers and all sorts of entertainment. But wherever there is a place on an agenda at a conference, a meeting, or an event where there would be a keynote speaker, a general session, A kickoff to a conference, a closing of a conference, a lunch speaker. That's where I come in. So I'm in conversation and constantly surveying the panorama for those that are putting together those events and ultimately need a speaker. Where am I in the process? You have, of course, Sarah, your do-it-yourselfers. There are those that want to go out directly and find a speaker, call it Speaker Johnny or Jenny, and they'll go directly there. And, and that happens, and that's fine. There's a couple of things with that. People often think they're going to get a better price. Um, my fee is out of the speaker fee, meaning whatever they're advertised as— I'll just use simple numbers, it could be $10 US the client will pay $10 US, and then between the speaker and myself, there's an arrangement. There is a standard, but, you know, some deviate from that a little bit so that the outward-facing amount is the same for every buyer from that particular speaker and generally all speakers across the board. Where the advantage of using me is if I have a relationship with the speaker that they're interested in and I can leverage to get a little bit better deal where it makes sense, where the speaker can maintain their fee integrity, but that I have so much history or done a certain level of volume with the speaker, and it might be a repeat customer or first-time customer. The circumstances might warrant where I can leverage my relationship on their behalf and, you know, offer a little bit different of a price point. So where I am is I'm in between the talent, in between the speaker and the buyer. The other aspect is, is that if rarely happens, but it does, something with the speaker gets injured in a skiing accident and immobilized, they can't move. If you're a do-it-yourselfer, you'll get a call from that speaker and they might be going in because they broke their femur and they need to have an operation. And they'll be like, hey, Here's your money back and call these 2 of my colleagues. They're, they're either more of the same. I already spoke to them. They'll do it. You call them and they're not available, or they are, but they can't make it from where they're speaking the day before. Well, what do you do? When you work with me, I have that dialed in so that if in the case that something happens, I have access to really an unlimited amount. I mean, is finite technically, but all sorts of speakers where I can fill that, that, um, that need where that happens. I could go on and on.

That's a really good point because I think this is something that needs to be highlighted for speakers who are listening in as well, is that what the priority for event bookers is that safe pair of hands, having that security. It's a big deal to put on this event. Their reputation's on the line. So, you know, if you're able to give them that sense of security and a sort of concierge service in a, in a way, then I can see the attraction of that. Now, so you, let's take you back again. You started this new business out, um, after being in, in the travel industry. Like, I know from looking at your website, you have some huge hitters in your, I'm gonna say stable. I know that you don't manage them, you are curating them. Sure.

Stable is great.

Yeah. How did you develop those relationships? Like, how did you get those people, um, in your world?

Well, it's a good question. So, you know, I am a member of a couple of professional associations. One is, uh, the International Association of Speaker Bureaus, where we all, um, conform to a code of ethics and some industry standards and some best practices, including how we contract and how we invoice and how we represent speakers and how we interact with our buyers. So in that ecosystem of our own trade association, there are avenues where people can facilitate access to others. But in the beginning, you know, it's a little bit of a challenge. You call and I will, you know, will have access because I am an agency and I am a bureau and I am an owner and people will take my call. But, you know, there's there's time where you have to develop the relationship. I mean, this is the moment, I guess, where we're gonna name drop, but, you know, Sir Richard Branson, you know, among others, Manny Pacquiao, you know, 8-division champion in boxing, Magic Johnson, Will Smith, and Nicole Kidman, and the list goes on and on. I don't represent any of them Exclusively by any means, but I have access to them. My buyers are interested. Why would my buyer not go directly to them? Again, I'll go back to that topic. Well, they don't have access, so it would take them forever and a day to find that person. Then how do they do a proper offer? How do they know what to ask for? How do they know how to kind of vet out if, if at the face of it, it's a fit, but then based on what they're asking for, it's not necessarily a fit?

Mm-hmm.

So those are some of the things that I do. And then just frankly, over time, being my personality, I'm a people person. I talk to people, I stay connected, I'm curious. Over time, I've been able to develop when I can pick up the phone and check availability on a name. And it doesn't have to be a big name. It could be an obscure author or somebody who does 5 speeches a year and is hard to get access to. So that, that's kind of how it just, it's just a matter of doing it over time.

And, and, and success attracts success, doesn't it? At the end of the day. Brilliant. Okay. So the next thing that I wanted to pick your brain on was what sort of are the consistent themes that come up in a brief from an event Organizer. So we've talked about safer hands. What other things are you seeing that they're, they're asking for?

The safer hands or the white glove experience or the curated experience. Um, well, I'm gonna give you an answer, which is a non-answer. What is constantly being, um, shown or requested is changing topics, changing categories, changing interests all the time. There are flavors of the month.

Hmm.

Way back in the day, it was green to gold, had to be sustainable but still have business growth. Then it was how to deal with millennials and intergenerational workforce. And, you know, I'm kind of skipping around, but then there was the hybrid workforce and virtually remote and the future of work. Then there's diversity, equity, and inclusion, or however you wanna phrase that. So, and now very popular or very on top of mind is AI, artificial intelligence. There was also a moment where emotional intelligence was really big. And then, you know, you have your steady kind of eddies, if you will, leadership, collaboration, innovation, growth mindset. Health and wellbeing is something which I would say is I wouldn't call it a flavor of the month. The thing is, what I'm calling flavors of the month, all of those end up staying. They might have a peak interest.

Yeah.

And have some type of a high volume of focus over a period of time, and then it might dip down. But it's now, it's kind of in the realm of all the categories and topics that are sought after. So right now it's AI, and, you know, it's like all the others that I mentioned, millennials, sustainability, DE&I. At what level does your buyer or the speaker need to come in? I'm dealing with an organization that is long-haul trucking and they want their, they're a very small group, about 100 business owners. They deal with from Mexico all the way up to Canada and they wanna understand how to use AI. Well, the question is, as the curator, I'm like, okay, well, why, A, why do you wanna know about AI? They really don't know. So it's not like I'm not being kind of unkind or facetious, but I need to get a measure of why. That's a good starting point. And then from there, find some, uh, find some way forward. So sometimes you have to understand what they don't need to know about a topic and what they do need to know about a topic. How high level is it? They're certainly not going to be— coding prompts and using ChatGPT as an agent yet, but they need to understand some of the aspects of that. So that's where I come in, Sarah, where I'm the connective tissue between those topics and then how they get deployed or delivered from the keynote, from your listeners, from the talent to then the buyer. Every speaker Sarah says, I customize, I tailor, I interview, I do a pre-event call. Everybody does that. Okay. But how are you really connecting the initiatives or the messaging or the mood of that buyer at that moment for that conference and what they're looking for going forward?

Cool. That's, that's helpful. I've got 2 questions to ask off the back of that. First of all, there is a tendency that I've seen For speakers, maybe, maybe not the top level ones, I don't know, to, to see these hot, what I call hot topics and try and jump on the bandwagon.

Yeah.

And, and, and sort of shoehorn their topic into this, this thing. And I don't think that's a good idea, but I wanted to get your view on that.

No, I, I agree. You have to stay in your lane and you have to be true to yourself. The, I think the true masters are able to address it. the elephant in the room, call it what you like, but still weave in their core virtues, their essence of who they are.

Yeah.

For myself, I'm like you, I'm a podcaster. So I'm not an expert on AI, but we've had people talking about AI, some really amazing people who are, you know, the products or the organizations they work with are very, very well known. What my takeaway was and what a speaker might be able to do is, you know, my takeaway was, okay, how do you be essential? Are they taking our jobs away? Are they gonna replace this aspect of my organization? How do I adapt? So while you need to understand some of the actual uses and how it's impacting your day-to-day in the near and the longer term, I think there is a context that can be created by very good speakers on how they— if you have somebody whose core message is the future of work, well, they can address AI in that aspect. If you have somebody who's all about growth mindset, they can use AI and the changes and the fear that's created or the unknown or the chaos And frame it inside of their core message, which in this case would be growth mindset. So that, that's kind of how I see it. But jumping on the bandwagon is, you know, you, you kind of lose your North Star a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. If you can find a context and an angle where you are, you are tackling some of the universal issues and concerns that arise from this thing without losing the essence of what you talk about, that's okay. But just like, completely shifting into, it's not gonna, people will see through, it's not gonna work. Cool. And then back to that sort of brief, aside from the topic and the sort of the subject, are there any attributes that come up in that brief again and again for speakers in the way that they describe the type of person, the type of speaker that they're looking for?

And when you say brief, correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's when I'm speccing out, I'm getting the specs on what a buyer is looking for. Yeah.

So your client phones you up and says, Seth, you know, we've got an event coming up. This is XYZ. And is there some consistency in what they're looking for in attributes that they share with you for speakers?

I think that there's a couple of consistent things. One is things change. So it could, and you know, again, I'm not being facetious, but they've gone from 45 to 60 minutes to maybe 30 to 45 minute keynotes with maybe some Q&A. Um, so those are some things that are changing. So there's a trend line there. Um, there's also everybody wants energy, everybody wants to have immediate connection, they want authenticity, all these buzzwords. So I think at the baseline, they do— you have to be a great speaker. So I know your community of speakers, you have to be really good. It doesn't matter if you're a former politician, a former gold Olympic medalist, you ran a Fortune 500 company, you were some executive, that you wrote a book, you have to be good. You have to be able to immediately connect from the first note. I mean, Mick and Keith come out, they don't need 2 or 3 songs to warm up. It is literally start me up on that first chord. So I think that buyers know this. And they need that right away. They need that confidence right away. And then, you know, I think that there is a movement. You know, I have— my buyers are kind of all over the place and more conventional and traditional and some that are really swinging out on some unconventional stuff. I think there is a movement for experience, which is kind of a euphemism for interaction or something a little non-conventional. So there might be some improv groups that come in and do a little bit of audience participation. There might be some musicians that come in and play their instrument and interact and get, get the attendees to perform along with them, whether it's singing in chorus or coming up on, on the, on the presentation stage.

Cool.

Painters, the photographers showing their work and really breaking down how they arrange and produce an image and, you know, getting kind of behind the curtain on that. So there is an appetite and hunger there. At the same time, the conventional— and, you know, I don't want to minimize it, but I think the more traditional aspect of stand and deliver a beautiful keynote. I think one of the things that I've seen over the years, especially post-COVID, is Slideshows, PowerPoints, whatever you wanna call them, Keynote, which is the program in Mac or the Apple side. The wall of words is disappearing. So, you know, one of my favorite speakers, he has like 3 slides and they're actually 5, but in between each slide is, is just a black slide.

Yeah.

Not even his name or the organization's logo. And it's on purpose, you know. So I think that there— does that answer your question?

Yeah, yeah, no, very fully. It's very, a very strong answer to the questions. There's a lot of, um, things that speakers can think about in, in there in terms of what they're offering at the moment and, you know, where, where are they in relation to what the market wants. Uh, so there's some really useful tips there around that. That's great. Thank you. Okay, so you've mentioned the word customization, and that's something that I wanted to pick up with you. When, if you were advising speakers that you were thinking of working with or you were working with, would you advise them to have fewer polished keynotes that they can customize or completely bespoke each talk for a client? What would your advice be?

Well, Sarah, given that we live in the world of words, you and I, I more often than not use the word tailor. Customize, and I'm being a little bit, you know, litigious with the language, but customize to me is like an individual singular, you know, one-time event. So you have a speaker that speaks on collaboration, for example, and you have an audience that may— there might be an audience, you have a client, a buyer that might be going through through, uh, just a recent acquisition, or there's been a merger of, of more than one entity and they're coming together, and the executive suite has made an initiative that we want to instill a message, an initiative about collaboration. So there's a through line in their internal marketing and their internal messaging at their meetings. And then of course at a conference, let's bring in a speaker who is either emblematic of that that has done some collaboration and is just an inhabiter of who that is, or somebody to talk about best practices or how to collaborate, or maybe a little bit of both. Somebody represents that and somebody who, you know, can talk about, you know, some aspects of how to collaborate. So, you know, I think the speakers that say they customize or they tailor, they do a pre-event call. They should study the organization. They should study the industry. They should be asking what to avoid, what to focus on, what's the language, what's the vernacular, what's the in-house colloquialisms, where have they come, what's the mood. But, you know, to answer your question, I think, you know, it's a question of having your core virtues and your core messages. And then from there, you can— not to be Pollyanna or be a chameleon, but from there you can build out and mold and tailor your presentation for that particular audience, which can then be replicated down the road, maybe in a similar industry or another type of, you know, if these are supervisors or managers or C-levels or entrepreneurs, where, you know, you can take work that you've done and then reshape it and reconfigure it a little bit. But I think in the end, you know, redoing a speech is a tough thing. Having some core ideas and then being able to map those on top of what the buyer needs is where really the magic happens.

Absolutely. Yeah, that is exactly what I would suggest. So really nice to hear you say that. Now, another question that I wanted to, um, ask you, because very curious about this, is what makes you choose to work with some speakers over others?

It's a great question because there's, again, not one answer to it. It depends on the time of day. It depends on the day of the week, the season of the year, where my blood sugar level is. If I've had, if I'm having a good month, You know, of selling or not. This is a conversation that I'm gonna direct, if I may, Sarah, directly to speakers and to your audience. Okay. Yeah. And I can only talk— I've worked with several speakers from the UK. Excellent experience, totally professional, really top, and have, you know, delivered for my clients, and we've had some repeat business with them. Um, with the same client. So, you know, nothing but kudos, at least in my personal experience, albeit somewhat limited. I can speak from North America, and I get calls literally every day, all day, with speakers asking me the following: Hi, I'm Johnny Speaker. This is what I speak on. How can we work together? How can we do business together? And we all have limited time. It's the most valuable asset we have. As a speaker, understand my loyalty or my priority is to go get buyers. So if my day is interrupted and I need to have a conversation with a speaker who wants to talk about how we're gonna do more business together, who I don't exclusively represent. So I have to stop my train, stop my flow. I mean, I can certainly say no, and I do, and I can arrange a conversation or do something through email. I do have a practice where I do address— I don't, you know, ghost people like that. But it occurs to me, quite frankly, Sarah is very needy. So I'm gonna dial this into how I choose to work with speakers.

Yeah.

So just to understand, okay, I'm out here trying to find whether it's Schlumberger, Unilever, um, you know, just name Nestlé, whomever it is that I wanna try to find buyers for and events that I can then book yours. But I have to stop all that and talk to you. I don't know you.

Yeah.

Let's assume you're awesome and great. And then you want me to direct resources like my marketing or my, any efforts that I do on social media Towards you, to then hopefully we can do business together. I think it's kind of backwards. So to me, the speakers that are doing that, the concept and the notion—I don't want to sound like I'm on a soapbox, Sarah.

So I apologize. It's funny.

Just like the notion that you know somehow you know I have something to offer and it's a win-win, but that you're lowering your status. You're coming in needy. So for me, I'm like, like, this is not my jam. This is not how I roll. I'm out. I'm a sales organization. So I don't have the answer, but the answer is not interrupt, not make requests, not ask for time, not be needy, and then have a conversation. And what's the end of that conversation, Sarah? Typically it's like, well, can I be on your podcast? Or let's do a social media post together. So who's gonna write that? And then is it gonna go on my feed? It's all time. Right? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I don't have the exact answer, but the answer is not calling and invading and invading and invading and coming in needy. So I work with people that I notice out there that are active, whether it's in social media, whether it's on a blog. I'm asking other speakers that I do work with, who have you seen? Who have you shared the stage with? I'm asking other buyers. I go to professional trade associations, PCMA, IMEX, MPI, Events Industry Council. I'm looking all the time. I'm talking to other bureaus, my colleagues, my competitors. Hey, who are you booking? Other bureaus and agencies that have exclusive speakers. Who's hot right now on your roster? So that, you know, and I'm looking at books and I'm looking at TED Talks. I have a, I have a process. It might be a little bit Ram, you know, not that structured, but I have an ecosystem where I'm constantly kind of firing on who's new or who's trending or who's showing up on my radar. I'm just one of hundreds, if not thousands, of bureaus out there, but it's an interesting conversation. I work with people that are easy to be with. Everybody says that they're easy to work with. I work with people that will are agile and are flexible. Everybody says they're agile and flexible. I work with people that I'm— I get along with, you know, I try to get along with everybody, and that I know I can trust 100%. So I went on a little bit of a soapbox there. I don't know if— again, that— I hope that answered it.

Yeah, no, I completely agree with what you're saying, is that, you know, the approach and this sort of interruption. And then, you know, I get to a certain extent with the podcast, people saying, oh, you know, we should work together. And I'm like, well, there's no attempt to sort of show the value that you're bringing to the situation or how it might specifically fit. Like if a speaker came to you, Seth, and said, look, I've just, uh, been booked, uh, with a, with a big organization. I wanna work with you in the future. How about I bring you in, introduce you to the organization, and this is, you know, this is something that we can do together, and maybe there's a relationship going forward, is a completely different animal to like, oh, what do I have to do to get on your books? You know, so it's a different energy, isn't it?

Well, it is. And so I'll just take it a little bit further up the road, if I may. The, um, I— let me get in the mind of your audience that's listening right now. Like, geez, this guy's kind of harsh, you know, he's freaking Yankees, like what the hell? Like, dude, I just want to call and try to find a way to work with you. Okay, I get that. I'm now a speaker who's been out there for a few years or is just getting started or anywhere along the road, and you want to expand, you want to go into the US market, or you want to You, you, 90% of your bookings are direct and you want to have some exponential bookings. So you want to develop relationships with, with, um, bureaus and agencies and other organizations that you can, you know, kind of expand with. Great. Well, that's sales and marketing. For me, the speakers that are fresh and new and I've never ever heard of, and somebody else might have known about them for 10 years, but they're new to me. are the ones that create a provocation where I stop. And I don't know what that is. It could be different every time.

Yeah.

It's worth it to say, hey, my name is John, and I just spoke to X company, and here's the testimonial, and it was great. That's nice. I might be busy that day. I might look at it later. My team might look at it. You know, the name of the organization or the testimonial itself. Might, you know, call my attention and provoke a little bit more interest. And then 3 or 4 months down the road again, and it's a little bit more, calls my attention out a little bit more. It's a slow burn.

Yeah.

Right. But for, you know, and then people say it's a numbers game. I think that that's BS. It's not a numbers game. What is going to stop me is if you're able to get me into a conversation.

Yeah.

And a conversation giving me value, while conceptually it's a good idea, I didn't ask for it. I didn't ask for a speaker to say, hey, I can, you know, do this and, and I'll include a workshop. Great, great. I'm not working on that right now, you know, and I have a full day. Um, you know, so provoke a conversation, provoke some curiosity, and I think I beat the dead horse.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Some great advice there. That's cool. Excellent. Now, I, I think that You refer to this and we've talked a little bit on it. Last time we spoke, you mentioned this term, the rarefied air, and it was in relation to exceptional speakers, the kind of speakers that do get booked again. Um, why do you think that it is rare that speakers deliver a sensational performance on stage?

I just think that there are certain speakers, and this is not just speakers, I think that there's certain people, teachers, um, professionals, whether you're an attorney or, you know, you're in the trades or whatever, that are so committed to what they do that it's not even a thing that it's a thing that they're committed. It's just who they are. I'm not gonna go as far to say it's a calling, but I have speakers that stand in their mind and say, my speech is gonna change a life or change lives. And you might be like, I don't know, dude, you're, you know, you were a marketing executive at some, you know, retail organization, like, you know, but if they're standing there and they're inhabiting it and it comes off that way. There is a separation. I'll make an analogy. There are some music bands that play amazing music and you sing along and they fill stadiums and you know who they are and you love them and the song comes on and you put 'em on your playlist and they're great. And then there are those that fill stadiums and there's a little bit of, I would call it healthy tension. Where there— I'll use the word the provocation— where something is moved in you. And not just like touch moved and inspired, but like maybe you're thrown off balance or you're challenged, or, you know, you're, you're kind of, uh, your sacred cows are, are really not all of a sudden that sacred anymore. And the speakers that can do that in an artful manner in a manner that is attractive and appealing, but is pulling somebody in who might be cynical, might be resigned, and then opens up to a new possibility— that's the rarefied air. Yeah, there are speakers that are a 10 out of 10. They're bestsellers. Their message is universal. They'll deliver an award-winning performance every single time. And then there are those that can do all that And it's that little extra 1% of something that is that rarefied air. It's the je ne sais quoi, right? It's that undefinable element. It's like tennis players, you know, the difference between number 5 and number 50 in the world as far as technique goes is like infinitesimal. If not, it's literally on par. It's that what makes Federer, Djokovic, Borg, McEnroe, You know, that much different. And it's that, that, that tension, that, that extra, you know, undefinable aspect of what they do, in this case a keynote speaker, that makes it different. And those are the ones that are most appealing to me, to me personally. It's not always what my buyer needs or wants, so I have to govern that as well.

Really interesting. So I, I used to play tennis competitively, and I had a tennis coach, and he used to tell me that You know, the top 100 tennis players, like you say, no difference in skill. It's all about the mindset.

That's right.

And I think with speaking, it is that, I don't know, that extra flair, but it is that passion and personality. But like you say, and the performance as well, that pulls it all together in a way that shifts perspective, creates epiphanies for people, and unlocks new possibilities for them. And that is an art.

I want to say something that first of all, I played tennis this morning. I play about 5 days a week. It's something that's near and dear to my heart. When I come to the UK, we'll have to, you know, maybe get on the court. But I'll say this, Sarah, if I may, to your listeners who are speakers, and I know you have a big audience, but the ones who are speakers, many speakers, not all, are admiration junkies. And they get off the stage and then they send the testimony and they go, see, XYZ buyer said I was amazing, or XYZ buyer said I hit the mark. And that's important. You need to be amazing. You need to hit the mark and all those other aspects of the accolades, testimonials, because it is a way to measure. But the question is, is that what you're shooting for? Are you shooting for the 5 out of 5, which I think— I don't know in the UK, here in the States, that's how, um, there's a standard form, or at least not standard, but that's how speakers are rated. Is that the end? Or the ones in the rarefied air, where they stand is, that's great, admire me. They'll say stuff like, you know, you're done with the speech and maybe there's a break or people have to go into breakout sessions, and before they move on to the next session, They'll come up to the speaker who's taking the mic off and, you know, finishing up, and they'll say, you are an amazing storyteller. I just loved, um, how you presented. God, you're— you have great energy. And all that falls in the bucket of admiration.

Yeah.

Okay. But when you have an attendee come up to you and say, Johnny Speaker, you know, I just want to thank you. That opening story, or that opening anecdote, or that opening idea, it made me think about my relationship with my neighbor, my boss, my employee, my uncle. And I just want to thank you because I'm going to go give them a call and I have something to clean up. Or, you know what, I want to try that idea that you did That you presented with my team because I can see right away, like, I wanna call them, I wanna send an email cuz I can make a difference. At that point, there was no admiration. At that point, the contact, the content, and the ideas were transmitted. In fact, the speaker disappeared. They are just now a delivery system. They are just now a vehicle to offload—

Absolutely.

Impactful transformational ideas. And that's where the rarefied air comes. So if you want to get admiration, and that's great, great, but if you want to make a lasting impact, then you need to take a look at what the feedback is you're getting. And in my view, which is one, you know, one small view, yeah, that's kind of the, the where the separation happens.

I love that. I love that. And I, I very much talk about being the vehicle for the message and it's not about you as a speaker. But I think that's a nice takeaway for people to say you need to be looking beyond admiration in getting your audience into action. And if you can do that, that's when, you know, things are gonna really change for you as a speaker as well.

And from the speaker's point of view, it's hard because if you're— I'm sorry to cut you off. If you're very well known, if you're very well known, your own, you know, the, the, the who you are precedes you.

Yeah.

So you kind of have to overcome that. It could be a big, big name. It could be an Oscar Award-winning, you know, actor. Um, so, you know, they're very facile at disappearing that and connecting right away. Or if you're unknown, you might lean heavily on your personality and your charge and your magnetism, and then that's gonna overshadow your own message. So you had there, there's a lot in play there and it comes over time. But, you know, it's just an observation I've seen.

No, it's a really good one. It is always this balance of style and substance, substance and style. And, and, and sometimes it's more style, less substance, or more substance, less style. But they need to be super in balance, uh, in service of the message. Absolutely.

Right. The tale and the teller.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cool. Right. Uh, a few more questions. Um, what do you believe the non-negotiable assets that speakers need to get booked?

They need to have absolutely an extraordinary, uh, video reel that gives a real sense of who they are. Yeah. Hands down. End of story. I have booked speakers multiple times with no video, but that's a separate podcast. I think in today's world with YouTube, TED Talks, streaming video, podcasts, and the like, um, you need a good one. And here's what I will say, serve the sirloin and lobster first. Don't start off with, you know, music. You can have music, but don't start off with this kind of saccharine 15 to 20 to 30 seconds of a voiceover, maybe a famous voice who's saying, you know, Speaker Johnny, you know, climbed this mountain and did this and this and that. No, get right into it. Give it away. Show your best stuff right away. Do not wait. The buyers today, just like on Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn and YouTube Shorts, etc., etc., They need to be hooked right away, and it's not gonna be a hook by a voiceover telling them about you. You have to show them. So not only do you need a great video, but serve the best first. Don't wait till the end of the night when everybody's gone to serve the best wine.

Yeah.

Serve it when the first guests that get there, the ones that came early to the chef's table.

Yeah.

So you have a buyer they clicked on your video. That's, that's sacred. So that's the non-negotiable right there.

Yeah.

And then if you do have a website, which you should— simple, clean, no distractions. Don't have all your, you know, 20-step programs and your 15 books and this seminar. It's speaking. Johnny speaks. Topics, videos, contact me, maybe some accolades, and maybe a form. Keep it simple. Don't distract. Keep them there and keep them focused. Love that. Lovely.

Okay, I'm gonna ask this. We just, you just mentioned this, um, and it's a, it's a question that is probably on the minds of some people. How many of the speakers that you work with offer additional products and services In addition to a straight keynote fee?

Many do. Many do. Many have books. Um, many have additional courses or consulting. Um, and it's important for me to know that, and it's important for me to team up with the speaker and know, is it warranted? Dare I say appropriate? Does it fit right now? Does it correspond at this stage in the interaction? Um, many do. I would say a large majority do, and I don't frown upon it. I'm just saying that if there are those speaker websites out there that have their speaking but you kind of have to fish for it like a treasure hunt, yeah, um, then, then it's like, wait, whoa, you know, what's going on? So, you know, I like to, when it works, bring books in Um, and/or have a, have an offline conversation, maybe post-speech or as we're getting closer, the, the buyer client might realize that, hey, we'd like to bring them in and do something with a smaller group of executives. That's absolutely, uh, you know, something that, you know, is encouraged.

Cool. Brilliant. Okay. So I guess this is probably the penultimate question here. Um, what are the 3 most important steps you think new speakers should take if they want to get booked and paid to speak?

Well, I think, uh, you need to go and do it. And don't worry, you know, I, I know, you know, not worry, but if you need to pay the mortgage for this, then you need to somehow Take that pressure off. So go do it for free on the weekends. Go talk to high schools, go talk to Rotary Clubs, Kiwanis Clubs, offer your speech to your network. Go in, cut your teeth, get on the court, practice, practice, practice. How do you know what an apple tastes like?

Hmm.

You have to take a bite. So that's the first thing, and then cut your teeth. Get involved with your local speaker associations. In the States, we have the National Speakers Association. I know you have something similar in the UK. Yeah. And then every state has an affiliate. So the California, Florida, New York, Texas, all 50. And then within that, you can have local, the Greater Los Angeles Association of Speakers or whatever. And they might have a monthly online meeting or a quarterly in-person meeting or, or one annual meeting. Begin to network with other speakers. As you begin to speak more, you'll find your voice, you'll find your message. You begin to network with more speakers. Speakers love to help other speakers. They might provide you with some clients that are great starter clients, that are people that might not have what your aspirational full budget is, but that you can branch out into a new category or a new industry. Get recordings done, find a wedding videographer, find, you know, whatever, you know, you can make sure you're mic'd into the camera and get as much footage as you can so that when you put together your sizzle reel, your demo reel, your, your speaker video, it's not one good stage of one speech you did, but it's a lot. Yeah. Okay. And record people that just heard you speak. I just heard Johnny, um, I really loved his message about teamwork and leadership and, you know, what he had— how to deal with difficult people in the workplace. And, you know, it's totally relevant and applicable, and I'm just really glad that I came and saw him. Something like that. Accumulate those over time. So that you can begin to have your library. So, you know, I, I think that's kind of what I would say.

Absolutely. That's smashing. Thank you. Um, cool. Okay. So before I let you go, I wanted to ask you some standard questions that we ask, uh, all of the speakers on the show. I say we, me, um, unless there's someone else here behind me that I've forgotten about.

Um, not that we, not that we know of.

And I'm not the Queen or, well, or even the, the King, so I'm not the royal we. Um, so the first—

No, no.

Well, actually there is one question and this will lead me into those. Have you ever wanted to get on stage yourself?

Sure. Yeah. Um, I have and I have, I have. Cool. I did some really cool talks in Spanish. Um, I speak fluent Spanish and Portuguese. Yeah. And I, the, the, I booked a speaker for the Professional Land Care Network. So these are landscapers, landscape architects. You know, you have an office park and there's 10 buildings and there's parking lots that have grass or trees or shrubs or bushes that need to be, you know, maintained. And there's big crews that come out with trucks or neighborhoods or condo complexes, and they are a part of a trade association and they have an annual conference where safety is important. And as I was working with my buyer and we booked a speaker, they had said, you know, we're— I said, what do you— I always ask this kind of, what are you working on that's, you know, either really exciting or kind of challenging or you wish you had done earlier or you wish you didn't have to do? And she said, we're trying to get a Spanish-speaking track because so many of our members have employees that speak Spanish. And I was like, well, what do you— That's really cool. I think that you know that's important. And I said, "What do you? What do you want to talk to them?" And she was like, "Kind of anything, just just to get it started." So I said, "You know, I I lived in Latin America for 26 years. I lived in Venezuela, in Brazil, and Argentina. And you know, I would love to put something together." So I put it together, and I did. I did like. 2 days of 3 sessions each day, 75 minutes. And it was really great because it wasn't like— there were like 15 people in each session. It was very small, very informal, it was very conversational. I had prepared slides, it was dialogue. They really opened up. They knew that I kind of knew the culture, and it was very, very cool. So I have gone on stage. I'm also writing a book. Oh, cool. It's called The Soul of a Keynote. Nice. And this time next year is when, when it'll be coming out. And, um, yeah, so I'm, I'm gonna talk about a little bit about what we talked about today. Every aspect from every angle, a little bit behind the curtain, a little bit in front of the stage. And, you know, so there you go.

Perfect. Well, I have to get you back on the show when the book, uh, is coming out and have a, have a chat about that. Plus, uh, maybe pick up on that question of who you hired or who you curated without, uh, Sizzle Reel. Wouldn't I put that little gem in there? Brilliant. Okay. So the, the first standard question I have is, what's the best thing that speaking has done for you?

It's provided, um, just a constant place where I'm, I'm challenged to be positive. I'm naturally a positive person. But I just find that the whole speaker community and, and whether it's really difficult things like diversity, equity, and inclusion, or talking to difficult people, or we're in political season, I've been booking a lot of speakers on the political spectrum. But people are always looking for the best and what richness can be brought forth. And that has just been life-altering for me. And I say that as a person who is naturally inclined to be very positive.

Excellent. Okay. That's, that's lovely. And yes, it's not, I think that's true. They're, they're positive energy, big ideas. I don't think you can help but grow and see possibilities if you're kind of in this space. I love learning about all the stuff that, that I've, you know, speakers speak about that I work with. Cool. Next question. Have you ever spoken, whether this is like a pitch or something like that, where it's gone horribly wrong and you thought, oh, I never wanna think about that again? Has that happened to you, Seth, or, or not at all?

Um, God, you know, does something come to mind where it's gone terribly wrong? No, I, I've had, I've had events that, um, I thought went really well. And then I never heard from the buyer again, and they've gone in another direction with another vendor. So that's happened, and it's still a mystery to me.

Hmm.

But as far as pitching, I can think 20 years ago, a colleague forwarded an email to me and said, hey, send this topic description over to this other buyer. And I read the topic description. It was a forwarded email, and there was a whole chain. I didn't look all the way down in the chain at the bottom. a lot of scatological language. And I had made some real headway. It was a total cold call. I was very excited. I was new in the business. And they came back, super conservative group, like very down the line, straight and narrow. And they were like, you know, that language at the bottom of the email, we can't work with anybody like that. And frankly, it wasn't PG-13, but it certainly wasn't X-rated. It was like, you know, rated R. But it was pretty— I was like, okay.

So no, that's a big lesson for people to bear in mind. Check the, check the thread of the email. Excellent. Okay. What's the book that's had most impact on your life and why?

Well, I, I, you know, I will relate just to the speaker world. Yeah. Um, Love Is the Killer App by Tim Sanders. Oh, okay. But I think, but I think, you know, Huck Finn and The Count of Monte Cristo probably, you know, Are capture the spirit of adventure and, um, you know, just adventure, which is really, I think, one of my core virtues.

That's brilliant. Do you know, this is this recently, I think the second time The Count of Monte Cristo has come up recently, so I'll wait for the third time. So I feel I haven't read that book, so I feel like I must, uh, maybe pay attention and have a look at that. Cool. Excellent. Um, what's the best bit of business advice you've ever had and why?

Bad news doesn't get any better over time.

What do you mean? Could you expand on that and how it's affected you or how you have—

If you have a cancellation, let them know right away. If you got a price wrong, let them know right away. If the speaker declined an offer, let them know right away. Bad news doesn't get better over time.

Okay. Last question. If you could have one mentor and they can be alive or dead, fictional or nonfictional, who would you choose and why?

Fictional or nonfictional, a mentor. Oof. Um, Coach Wooden from UCLA basketball fame. Coach John Wooden.

Why, why is that, Seth?

Well, he was just, uh, he was very clear about his vision. He was— he— there were certain things that were non-negotiable. He was able to sustain a level of success and elite performance over a period of time that is unrivaled. And I worked with him. I booked him. I had the good fortune when I, when I was working in Los Angeles, same agency, but I was based in Los Angeles. He lived in the Valley in Westlake Village, and he was on— he was in his early 90s. And, you know, he's world famous, but definitely like a, like Yoda guru, you know, level in the United States and especially in the basketball world. So the only way he would take offers was, or bookings was, if he could drive them. No car service. So he wasn't getting on planes, even if it was private air anymore. And I would drive him. So I would drive him down to Orange County or San Diego or within the greater LA area. And I, my travel business prior to this, we'll start all the way at the beginning, was called Planet Basketball. I coached professionally overseas in Venezuela, and I had taken college and high school teams all over the world to play and compete and travel and get educated and learn culture and language and food and, and, and play abroad. It was very, very cool. And after 9/11, that all came falling down. And I had— we were in a car a couple of times, my car, and he sat in the front seat, and I had him call. I, I asked him, Would you talk to my coaches that were my former coaches? And they would get on the phone and they couldn't believe it. You know, it'd be like, you know, I don't know, an Argentine talking to Maradona in his heyday or a Brazilian talking to Pelé or, you know, just, just unbelievable. And I had asked him, I said, you've had some players that are considered the best in college and if not the best in the NBA. What do you do with all the others that are so markedly down the ladder, still are amazing, made it to the NBA? And he said, coach to the top. So I always try to look at the speakers that are the best and aspire there, or the agencies that are the best and aspire to the top. I don't know, I'm gonna say something, it's kind of silly. It's not socialism. Don't get the bottom and bring it up and everybody's equal, because not everybody is Maradona. Yeah. And why are you gonna bring him down? Everybody needs to come up. That would be my mentor. And I went on a little bit of a monologue about why, but there's your answer.

That's perfect. That's perfect. Well, listen, Seth, I really appreciate you coming onto the show and sharing all of these brilliant golden nuggets that speakers can take and, you know, think about and consider in terms of their, how they're positioning self, how they're presenting themselves, how they're reaching out and all that good stuff. And also for bookers, the benefits of using a professional service to make sure their event is in the best hands possible. Now, if people want to find out more about you, more about what you do, um, if they wanna book a speaker, where's the best place for them to go?

Well, they can start on our website. It's thekeynotecurators.com, just like it sounds, thekeynotecurators.com. If you wanna call, it's 310-299-4595. But we're on LinkedIn. Cool. We're on YouTube, we're on Instagram at The Keynote Curators. I'm Seth Deckman. You can find me on LinkedIn. We're putting out videos every day about curated snippets from speakers, conversations from our podcast, and all our newsletters. So just reach out to us on the website or through LinkedIn or our YouTube channel. Come and subscribe. I know, Sarah, you're doing some great work on YouTube and you're, uh, distributing all of your media all over the place and for everybody to see. We're doing the same. Check it out on YouTube channel, The Keynote Curators, and, you know, visit us, contact us, reach out, and, you know, let's have a conversation.

Brilliant. We'll put the link to all of that stuff in the show notes as well for you to check out. Seth, thank you again. I really appreciate the time and the experience that you've shared with my audience today, and good luck with everything that you're doing.

Thank you. It was a pleasure. I had fun, and I hope, uh, you know, I was able to do, do what you wanted and not, you know, not look silly doing it. So—

Far from it. Far from it. There you go. Loads of golden nuggets there from Seth. And I love the way he's— he doesn't sugarcoat it. He's like straight talking, tells it like it is to give you a really clear picture of the industry. And what you need to do to get on with it within the industry. It is competitive, but you know, if you get the right angle, if you really solve a problem and position yourself and your talk in the right way, you can get there. And if there's been any aha moments for you from what Seth or I said, then, you know, particularly Seth, go and let him know. He's on LinkedIn. Also, I'm on LinkedIn as well. Come connect with me there. And go and have a look at his website, thekeynotecurators.com, especially if you are an event organizer and you want that white glove service, or you want to get hold of a celebrity speaker, but you've got no idea where to start. Probably Seth has got that connection and can make it for you. So do go and check those things out. I want to thank you for choosing The Speaking Club. I really value your attention. It's the most precious thing we have. It's more precious than money. Time is the asset that evaporates, so we want to be spending it wisely, and I hope that you've found your investment in this show to be worth your while. And if you have, then subscribe to the channel if you're watching and leave a comment below. Love to hear your views on what Seth said, whether you agree, you disagree, Uh, you think it's a great view or, or whatever. And also, if you're listening on the podcast, if you can subscribe and leave a rating or review, that would be smashing. And you can do that over at ratethispodcast.com/tsc. So, uh, all that's left for me to say is have a great rest of your week and don't forget to go out Grab your life by the nuts and get cracking. Bye-bye. It's a nightmare. You're an expert with so much to say, but now that you've been booked to speak, you're struggling to know exactly what to talk about. You want a talk that engages the audience and wins you new clients without you losing your personality or anyone feeling pitched to. But what happens when you sit down to create that talk is that you end up staring at a blank page for ages, or worse, surrounded by hundreds of sticky notes with content that you could include. With so much material, you just don't know where to start or finish. Don't worry, because many experts like you face exactly the same challenge, and that's why I created the Blank Page to Stage Guide. In just 15 minutes, this breakthrough resource is going to help you identify the big idea of your message, make it relatable for the audience that you're speaking to, and convey it all in a way that gets the audience inspired and on board with your idea. And it works even if you have tons of material or your subject feels less than exciting. If you want to cut through swathes of content and get a talk that you're excited to share, your audience loves, and wins you new clients, then grab your Blank Page to Stage guide from saraharcher.co.uk/newguide-tsc. Oh, I forgot to say, it's completely free. Enjoy!