#27: This technology "fixes" your brain, makes you see better

I had dinner with the founder or the owner of the South African cycling team, and he said, the woman that I'm about to interview is a miracle worker. Who, who are you?

I'm Dr. Cheryl Calder. I'm a sports scientist. I've been working in the field of sports science for the, for the last 30 years.

Yeah. And, you know, the, the South African cycling team owner told me that you took his worst player or worst rider in terms of falls per race because he had a perception problem when the peloton got close together and he started going really fast, he had a perception problem and, and fell a lot of times. And he used your app for, I think, 10 minutes a day for six months, and now he's best on the team or he was working back when I had dinner with the owner. Is that true? And, and is that the kind of work you do?

No, that is true. The exciting thing, it, it, it has an effect on performance. And if you want to be better than what you are, it's trainable. We, we can give you a training program and you can improve those specific skills.

And, and so you're not trying to improve my sensors, my eyes, Right. You're trying to improve my, my brain, how it perceives, how it handles that information that my eyes are picking up, right?

Yeah, actually both. It's actually how you, you know, your input skills, how you take information in. So you can imagine a cyclist, you know, he's got to be seeing the road, what's happening around him, what's happening with other riders, taking turns. I mean, we've just watched the Tour de France and you could see it. It's, it's really a hectic race. Up yours, down your speed, etc. So that information initially, you've got to take in, got to make sure it's accurate, and you've got to make sure it's. It's quick or fast, taking it in really quickly, and then, then you got to process it in the brain. So you get the brain to take that information that you've seen, and if it's correct and accurate, it would process it correct and accurate and give it back to the body to respond. Now you can imagine if what you take in is, is not accurate or not quick enough, the response is always not going to be accurate or quick enough. So we just, we just train those skills and make you make better decisions and respond more effectively.

Yeah, I'm starting a new video series that I'm really going to focus on people who augment human beings rather than just Try to replace us with the AI, you know, and do away with our jobs or whatever. And how did you discover this? Because you're a unique person I've met in life. I've been, you know, interviewed thousands of people, and I haven't found somebody who really figured out how the human mind works and is exercising that with technology to make the human mind better. Right.

Yes, I was. It's really been a life's works. As a young kid, I think my friends and family thought I was crazy because I was always experimenting with how do you do that, how do you do it quicker, how do you. More accurate, how do you respond better, how do you get better at what you're doing? And I just did this. It was inherently in what I was doing all the time. And then I got to play international field hockey for South Africa and various people in all different teams. Wherever I played opponents, different countries I played against, just always coaches came to me and players came and said, how did you see that? How did you do that? And I thought they saw what I did till I got to a point and I realized, no, maybe they don't. Maybe I do see differently. And by the nature of developing these skills, I came across. I approached a professor at University of Cape Town and I said, we really can impact performance. And he said, well, I'll teach you to research if you teach me, you know, what's in your head. And that's how I really started. I did my PhD and showed that if you train the eyes and the brain and the body in a certain way, you can impact performance. So that's where it all started from my own being inquisitive.

It's crazy what you do. And, and I get why it would help a professional athlete, because the margin between. Well, I, I interviewed Dick Fosberry, who has his name on the sport of high jumping and the difference between gold and metal and silver and putting his name on the sport and being forgotten is 2 cm, 8.3ft in the air. Right. So the, the margins are so slim that every professional athlete is looking for anything that'll get them, you know, a little bit better, because that means the difference between gold and bronze or not meddling like at the Olympics we just saw.

Yeah, I agree. And, and, and an exciting thing is if you haven't trained these specific skills, you are actually not performing to your potential. So it means we can make you better than what you are.

That's, it's just crazy. And, and what's mind blowing is you're, you're now using these techniques that you hone with professional athletes and are bringing them to everybody, right? Because everybody can use your thing for 20 bucks a month or something like that and you use it for 10 minutes a day for a few months and all of a sudden you're seeing better, you're well, tell me what it would do for a normal everyday person, not just a, a high end athlete.

Well, we, we all do work, so we're all involved in some kind of work or other. So it would improve your productivity because you would be focusing and concentrating and doing what you should be doing. You also drive your car home and you know, with what happens on the roads nowadays, you've got to be aware when, when to stop. Is it what's coming into your view, how you should judge to the car in front of you? And then just everyday life, it just improves your overall awareness of what's happening around you and the everyday person. Because we're spending so much time on screens, we're losing all these crucial skills which you should develop naturally, but we're not. So we're coming back and we're spending six hours a day on this and then thinking we've got to go out there and scan and make a decision and track correctly and judge correctly and we not because we, we actually abusing those skills. So for the everyday person, really crucial just in everyday life, in, in everything.

You do, if, if somebody was using your app for the first time, what does it look like on the screen and what is it doing? What, what do I have to do to exercise my mind? Yeah.

Well, first of all, the information you're taking in is, is nothing you can predict. So the different things happening on the screen which you have to respond to and make a decision. So if it's something every day that we know every day, then it's easy to respond. But you can never predict what you see and then how quickly you have to process it because you've got to make a motor response and a decision because if you don't do it, as I said earlier, accurately and quickly, you're not going to pass. And the training gym has got 40 levels. And you start the first five levels are like kind of introduction. And if you, if you don't, if you don't pass a level, it will keep you there just like, you know, just like in a normal gym, if you pick up weights, if you can't pick up a heavier weight, it will keep you there for a period until you've trained to be able to pick up Heavier weights, exactly the same in my system. That's why I've called it igem. It's such an easy concept, so it trains those, those input skills, processing, response skills. And it, it will keep you on a level till, you know, until you're good enough to, to move on. And what's really interesting, we find it, you know, we find. So for the elite guy, they feel terrible when they don't do well in all the skills. But as I said, we all have these skills, stuff we're good at and stuff we're not good at. So it kind of, there's like a personal trainer that keeps you in certain areas till you're good enough to move on. So it's fun and it's, it gives you a score, it gives you a performance coefficient of response and accuracy. You can see how quickly you can make a decision and you can measure yourself all the time. And that's, that's what's important.

You designed this to be used on a monitor of some size, like my imac monitor, you know, bigger monitor. Not really an iPhone, because you need your eyes to move around a wide place, right? Is that true? Because I, I heard you have a new iPhone app too for the athletes.

Yes, no, no, that's absolutely true because you need this awareness around you and when, when you're in here, you lose that and you lose your judgment and you lose those eye movement skills. But yes, I do have an app, but it's not a training app. It's actually been designed to get you ready to perform or get you ready to work, get you ready to do whatever you do as a human being. It's almost like a wake up or, you know, a fire up to perform. So it's just, it's just two minutes just to heighten those skills that you need for everyday life or elite sport or driving. We work, for example, we work with truck drivers where we, we've brought down accident rates, we brought on fuel usage because they judge better, they don't accelerate that quickly. So the whole driving skill improves and it has a, has an impact on the whole industry.

Have you been inside an Apple Vision Pro yet? And are you thinking about augmented or spatial computing like that? Because glasses that are coming, and that's one reason I'm talking to you today, is I know the industry is coming in the next 18 months with very lightwe augmented reality glasses that have a big screen in front of you. Are you watching that field evolve like the Apple Vision Pro or the Quest 3 from Meta?

Absolutely. I Mean, I can't wait because it's, it kind of puts you in the ideal world, you know, because the bigger the screen the better. Plus you still have awareness around you, you know, so that would be fantastic. As, as soon as we can get a working on that, maybe it might make our results even better.

So some someday will I have an AI talking to me, go, hey, it's time to exercise your eyes. Here's a little screen that you need to play some game on or you know, or, or do something on for a few minutes to make my eyes better. Right?

I hope so because we really want to impact every person's life. We believe every single person improve our skills and that would be the ideal world.

Yeah. What, what is it that most people don't understand about how the human brain works?

Well, people, I think there's a general concept you bought what you're born with is what you've got. And I mean it's, it's a real amazing field because the brain is, is trainable. They talk about plasticity and you can improve the brain. So we do, we do, for example, we do a lot of work with kids where we improve their learning skills. So I mean we've always thought what you've got is what you've got and we've shown that those skills are all trainable so you can make new connections and we can force the, the body to the eyes and the brain to work more effectively. And I mean, how exciting is that? Because we can make every person play better, train better, drive better, work better, whatever, you know, whatever you do, you're.

You'Re an inspiring person because you're, you're making my brain better. You know, and there's not very many people. Are there other places in the human mind that we can use similar techniques to make us better? You know, is this an un, unmind area of research?

Very much unmind. And of course we've got it, we've got to change the concepts of people. So for me I'm actually, I've improved these skills and then it shows improvement in your performance and that's, that's what's important. Isn't that what every. Be better at what they're doing and because I've done such a lot of work in elite sport, I mean if you, if you get a play to perform better, it has a whole effect. He feels better, does better, you know, more confidence, etc. So I always say I'm really in the business of changing people's lives and my work's so exciting. Because on a daily basis I get feedback from people saying this and this and this, you know, so it's, it's really exciting. It, it, I'm blessed to be able.

To do it really is. And it's an honor talking to you because you, you've changed people's lives at a high level that few don't get to do. Where, where do you think your business is going? You know? Do, do you think you're going to have an app on the Vision Pro someday? You know, as, as the glasses get lighter weight because right now they're too heavy. I, I don't like wearing it. You know, you might, you might be able to put your app in it, but I don't really want to wear it, you know?

Yeah, no, I'm sure the technology is just going to get better and better. Ultimately we need to find ways and I mean in, in, in my business, we need to start looking at getting funding to be able to improve the tech. Because you, you need to keep being innovative all the time. If it's the new, the new glasses and, and I'm sure they're going to progress really quickly, get lightweight, etc, it would be new ways of training in a more effective way. So that would be, would be a great, a great asset to the science of what I do.

My friend Andy Grignon worked with Steve Jobs and he said there was an employee at Apple who was really amazing at negotiating. He said this guy negotiated a price down in a meeting. And Andy said, I was watching this go down, I was paying attention and I couldn't figure out what he was doing. Is, is your technique going to let somebody read somebody better, negotiate better, you know, have better interpersonal relationship because they're able to see things that like, I can't see.

Absolutely, absolutely. I, I have no doubts. I call it think on your feet. And we have some of our clients before they go into corporate meetings who actually do a little bit of IGEM so that they prepare for the meeting. So I have no doubt that it has the ability to do that because you could pick up not only visual things, but because your brain is functioning better. You could pick up information which you can recall other information and it all comes together and you can make a better decision. I have no doubt. I've not, no doubt that you can do that.

The, the blind took me to dinner and to a concert one time in dark rooms where I couldn't see anything. In other words, my eyes were taken away from me and I noticed my, the rest of my sensory Capabilities really shot up. My hearing went better, my smell went better, my sense of even feeling went better. Do you find that exercising the perception system of your mind brings other benefits to other sensors in, in your. In your human being?

Right, yeah. Look, I know that about 80 to 90% of decisions you. You make is based on visual information. So that we know, yes, if you do take away some sense, you do heighten the other senses as well. So. So, yeah, that absolutely does happen. We do some training where we overload the visual system, for example, you know, put it under pressure, and that then heightens that ability to want to function, you know, more effectively. So we do use that principle as well in the work that we do.

Wow. We should talk about human. Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Yeah. Just a really simple example. If I work with a Formula one driver, and once he'd done igem, I always used to ask him, how does IGEM affect his performance? And he used to say, when I get in the car and drive and race, everything seems slow motion. Now, actually, what it is is that you're taking information in so quickly that you have time to make a decision and it seems like slow motion. And I've heard that when people are involved in accidents, that everything seems to happen really slowly, but it's because those senses are super, super heightened. But with the Formula one driver, he gave us that feedback just by doing the ijam because we heightened his ability, you know, take information and perceive what it's doing. So, yes, it is. It is possible to improve that ability.

Very cool. We should talk about brain computer interfaces. This is a device from a company called NextMind, which Snapbot and sort of has disappeared, but it's a bunch of EEG sensors that sits on the back of your head, which is where most of your visual processing is done, and it can sort of tell what I'm looking at. You starting to work with the industry to think about human brain interfaces, or are you working with anybody, like at Neuralink or something like that, trying to figure out how humans are going to see things in the future?

Not, not at the moment, but of course, can you imagine the combination of that and what I do, what kind of results you can get out of that? So I would. I would love to work with some companies who, who do that and share what I do and maybe come across something exceptional.

Give me. You have some amazing stories of professional athletes. And like you told me, I think about a football player who, when the football came in the sun, he had a procession system problem and he he couldn't see it. He lost track of the ball and he would drop it. And, and then after using your app, I think he got way better. Can you give me a few of these kinds of stories of what you've done for professional athletes?

Second year NFL player, and even with no pressure on him, a ball coming towards him, he was a wide receiver and even with no pressure with drop balls all of a sudden in his career, etc. And they got me to come work with him and obviously I tested him and I realized some of his skills had deteriorated or were not up to stand. Let's rather say we're not fit enough or we're not good enough. And worked with him for a really short period and got him back to catching correctly again, you know, getting balls out the air, etc. And he actually took one amazing catch and they asked him, how did you do that? I think they call it a circus catch in NFL. And he said, God up above and ajah, help me. So yes, we did, we did train him and got him just made the skill that wasn't good enough better. And again, like I said, that's, that's the whole full circle. Play better, feel better, perform better, do better. You know, it has an effect on your whole career. And we, we, we think. I always tell most people I work with, we think because you an elite player that you good at everything, but you're not. And again, I say if you haven't trained these skills, you can be much better than what you are.

Yeah, I, I wonder if Steph Curry has your system as he's nailing three pointers from half court that are like, what, how do you see that? How do you, how do you predict that? How do you. And then how do you throw the ball to, you know, to go in the, in the basket from that far away. Right.

Right now? He's amazing.

What else are you seeing happen in the world from your perspective that's interesting? Along these lines, making humans better.

Probably, probably the biggest dilemma at the moment is overuse of smartphones.

Oh yeah, I'm addicted.

Most people are. You know, how much time would you spend on it? All day long in a day.

No, that's not true. I mean, you know, but most of the day I'm on a screen, whether it's my imac or usually my small screen, because I'm always looking at my phone while walking around and doing things right.

Yeah, just the small screen. As I said earlier, the eyes and the brain were not. The human being wasn't designed to work on the small screen. So we need to find ways of just countering that. And because it become part of our lives, you need to do it as part of your work, etc. So, but we need to find ways of countering the negative effects of that. And we believe that IGEM is a antidote to that overuse of smartphones. So if you do a couple of minutes a day, not on your phone, but on your iPad or on your Mac or on your computer, you could counter those effects, especially as an elite athlete, because I think they spent probably more time than, than, you know, everyday working people. So it would be beneficial for them to maintain their skill level because it has a direct effect on your skill level as, as an athlete.

When I visited you years ago, you had me do like a, the first, you know, a test, right? You, you were testing out my system and you found my eyes were like 39% of your average clientele, which tells you that most of the people see or, you know, athletes who are fairly good with their eyes and my eyes suck. What, what is your system able to tell just from the user using it, about the user, about the, the human? What kinds of perception system problems can you pick up on and what kinds of things can you pick up on about the human being on that first test?

Yeah, I mean the various skills, you know, a whole lot of skills that we train and as I said, we all have these strengths and weaknesses. So I can pick out and say, I have to say, Robert, we get some elite athletes who also get less 39 or less. So don't, don't feel bad at all. So you would have had some, would have had some cool strengths that, you know, counteracted the bad ones. So you didn't do too badly at all. But for the elite athlete and for the everyday person and school kid and whoever we work with, it would just make a difference by making the bad skills better already. And it could be different things. We have some athletes the ability to track or follow is not up to standard. We have some people who can't respond quick enough in their peripheral. We have others, a lot of others who judge incorrectly. And if your judgment is wrong, your response is always going to be inaccurate anyway. So it's all these little skills which we use on an absolute daily basis which just aren't up to standard. And I also have certain skills which are not as good as others. But I, I try and do item regularly and you know, maintain that those skills all the time. But if, if I stop training Just like a normal physical system, if I stop doing it, it gets, goes back to where I was again.

I, I used to be able to run marathons. I can't do that anymore because I stopped running. Right.

You got to get going again.

Oh man, that's too much work. And this is the probably the same reaction people have with you. Oh, what do I, what, what do I need to spend 10 minutes a day working out my, my mind, you know, that, you know. Right. It's, it's. How do you get the human discipline to do the work to improve yourself? Right.

Yeah, but however, with I. Once you fit enough. So we've, we've worked out like it depends on the individual how fit you are, you know, how quickly you could get fit. You could spend about between 200 and 300 minutes in IGEM and then you, you can then get on a maintenance program where you might just do it once or twice a week and still maintain that ability. So, you know, it doesn't mean you have to do it every day. You know, as a business leader, you might do it before you go to meetings. You know, as a school kid, you must do it before you write an exam, you know, or something like that. So once you've got it fit enough, you know, we use the eyes and the brain and the body all the time, so you use a lot of those skills. So the maintenance of that is way better than say running a marathon. So it's exciting. It's just, you know, it's just you must want to be better than what you are or you must want to be healthier than what you are. Yeah, because it fix, you know, your wellness, etc.

Why can't you do this exercising, just walking around the world and playing with your mind. What is it about your thing that really pushes that to the next level and makes it better than something you can do with your own, you know, intuition, particularly if you're a sports person. Right. You're always throwing things and catching things and.

Right, right. Well, probably one of the more important skills is that if, if you don't, if you don't focus and concentrate, you actually can't do our job. So what it does, it actually draws you in and forces you to, to concentrate and keeps you in that zone while you're doing the exercise. Whereas me, just as a human being, I get distracted. No. Something happens and I look away or some. So it's very hard to train that ability just in everyday things. So it really has to draw you in, train in the exciting thing you can make 500 decisions in 10 minutes of training based on something you haven't seen before. And you can imagine how that impacts your performance. So it's really concise. A lot of training in a very short time.

Your screen, when I, when I'm using it, has all sorts of colors, all sorts of numbers, a lot of movement, a cursor is moving around and I have to, you know, focus on that really complex stuff. Most people if, if they haven't seen it, they have no concept of how, how. Well, it actually exercises your mind, I guess.

Right. Actually, what you can do, if you go to igem.com there's a little test yourself and have a look, see what your performance coefficient is like, see what you score. It will give you a basic. It will give you a basic indicator of how good those skills are for you as an individual.

Very cool. Well, I dream of a world where. I dream of a world where I get these glasses. I mean, I have a Hololens and I have a vision probe down back here. Right. But they're too heavy. That we know, like lighter weight ones are coming. And I, I want to see your app in there where I can, you know, train inside the glasses. You know, maybe I have 10 minutes extra at a Starbucks or something like that. Right. And I can exercise my eyes.

Yeah, maybe on those, on those devices you might not need 10 minutes, you might only need two minutes. You know, you never know. You know, we could look at the design of the app in that way we, on the bigger awareness, you know, real, almost real situation, I think we could accelerate your performance even quicker.

Very cool. And we find you@igim.com.

Yes, we do. It's.

It's a real honor to talk to you and thank you for what you do for human beings and for, certainly for the professional athletes who, you know, like I said, margin between winning and being forgotten is not very big. So you help a lot of people perform better. So thank you.

Thank you, Robert. Really, really cool chatting to you. Thank you.