LEGEND ROBERT SCOBLE ON BLOCKCHAIN AND AUGMENTED REALITY

Get everything started and then turn it public.

So yeah, like predetermined kinda.

Yeah. You know, maybe, maybe Elon will give us some of these tools, but I doubt it.

Yeah, I heard you guys are friends. Yeah, I heard you guys are friends. We. He retweeted me a couple minutes earlier. Yeah. So no worries. We can take our time and say our hellos, introductions and I see people will probably start piling in.

It's gonna be a fun time.

Yeah. And I'll sort of go first. My name's Tom. I've been, you know, involved in blockchain for quite a few years. Focused on daos governance and really just how like organizations and these communities work and sort of how they're, you know, taking these tools and apps that we're developing, leveraging things like the blockchain and fitting those in and replacing a lot of these failure prone systems that we're so used to using because we've got really efficient at developing organizations and pushing innovation. Tremendous strides. And so now with these tools in place of a lot of, like I said, those sort of not robust, failure prone tools that we're so used to using, legal agreements, paper contracts, it's just been amazing what we're able to do. So that's always been my main focus and it's really cool because I get to meet people like Jay and I get to talk to so many people and sort of just think deeply about, you know, exactly what that looks like, like how people are actually using this technology. Like what does this technology look like in sort of human form. Right. So yeah, I was really excited when I heard you were coming on and I. We immediately got Jay up here to sort of help us out with this conversation. I think he's the perfect person. So I'll let him kind of give a brief introduction if you guys haven't met yet.

Matt is a funny question.

Yeah, so I'll just give a quick thing because I've actually been following Robert now more closely since he's been doing Twitter spaces. Quick shout out to Kiwi and Marta for putting the fact that he was doing Twitter spaces on my radar. So I've been to, you know, several over the past few months.

But Marta, by the way, Marta is a great, a great evangelist for Cardano.

Oh, she. Yeah, no, she, she does, she does evangelize you actually. It's amazing. Well, she's in dark.

She's evangelizing you all to me for months.

No, exactly. That's actually so true because she has been saying that there's A lot of great work that could be done and research that can be done by colliding the two worlds. And I agree. So yeah, you know, I'm just a content creator actually. So it's very interesting because Robert, what's funny, and I'll toss this to you, but it's really interesting because I remember seeing videos of you like way back. So Robert obviously has probably a huge fan base that's going to be showing up here. So you guys are all aware it's.

Not that big anymore.

But there was a video I think, which is the earliest I could remember maybe from. It was like from Stanford and it was you talking about just like social, the impacts of social media and how Twitter accounts of employees for brands would take, turn into them being brand ambassadors that could interact with users on Twitter. And I, I think it had to be like 2012 and maybe I caught it at 2015 or 2016 when I was graduating high school. But it's funny because I do remember you popping up that early. And then since then, obviously I've done more research when you got into Twitter spaces. So you've been. Yeah, been at the bleeding edge, man.

Yeah, for a while. I've had an extraordinary life. I wrote a book when I worked at Microsoft. I worked at Microsoft 2003-6. I wrote a book about social software back then. Right. Because I was a blogger who went into a corporation, blogged on behalf of the corporation and got into the Economist magazine and lots of other things because of that.

No, that's what I said to tct. I was like, dude, this guy, he has such a wealth of knowledge that we could just talk about the future of robots or wave guys or we could go into so many things. So one of the things that I really wanted to make sure because I haven't heard you actually talk recently too much about blockchain and augmented reality. So I was hoping to definitely pull some gems from this space. Just being kind of a fan myself of just like listening in to your forward thinking thoughts. And you're so tapped in with the big tech companies and seeing all of the landscape changes that are coming. It is interesting you joining this space. I'm actually really excited.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's, it's funny. I figured out what Apple's doing not because they tell me, but because I interviewed a lot of the founders of companies that Apple's bought over the years and I just am good at networking and figuring out things. I was Apple's first child laborer, by the way, back in 1977. My mom paid me to build Apple II motherboards in our kitchen, and she taught me to solder on Apple II motherboards. I go back to childhood. My dad was an engineer and moved us to Silicon Valley in 1971. And, you know, that gave me a lot of insights into the world because Apple Computer started right around the corner from where I lived.

Yeah, no, no. I have heard your background a little bit, but it is interesting if there's any more that you want to add or if you just want to transition to what, like how. I was curious on the context that you have of Cardano and kind of, obviously we're in. I've been following Adao for a while and what they're doing is amazing in my opinion, too. But what's your current context around kind of like Cardano and Blockchain and how it's going to feed into maybe like augmented reality and all these other tech? I just want to go on the journey with you guys in this space with everybody listening. So why don't we. Maybe we should start there.

Well, it's not just Cardano. I interviewed Vitalik when he was really young, you know, back when he was just starting Ethereum. And so I've been watching this space since the beginnings. Keep in mind, I'm not that brilliant. Did I put some money in his pocket? No. I should have. I think Ethereum was $2 Ethereum back then, you know, now it's what, around $2,000?

Crazy.

I look at it differently because I'm watching Apple and Facebook and Zuckerberg compete for the big, you know, consumer prizes with, with their headsets. And I see Apples coming. And I think the Blockchain community is going to be the right one to choose long term. But it does have to get through this, this Apple rebooting of the immersive space. Right. And so I'm watching, I'm talking to a lot of people who worked at Apple or work at Meta. And for instance, Apple has ultra wideband radio network in their products now, but it's not turned on. This network is going to let Apple do augmented reality that doesn't float. All right? So if I'm wearing a Hololens or a Magic Leaf or something like that, and there's a spongebob on my kitchen table. If I'm dancing, if I'm moving my head left and right, the augmented thing floats. It moves around because the device on the. On your face has cameras that are seeing the world, using computer vision to figure out the world in 3D and then lay the Spongebob on top of it. And that process has a little bit of latency and a little bit of error. Apple is going to do that, but they're also going to add this new radio network because. Because the guy who built the air tags asked me, why. Why do you think we're building these air tags? I go, well, they cool. They help you find your keys under the couch. If you dropped your keys and can't find them, you pull out your iPhone and it shows you where this airtag is. He goes, no, that's not why we built it. I'm like, well, that's why you're selling it. He's like, yeah, but that's not why we built it. He said, we built it to be a beacon in the home.

That would.

Light up the room. Because radio wave can see your 3D environment can be seen by a radio antenna. Now, Stanford professor told me that a couple weeks ago who's started California Microwave, right? So he's a real expert on antenna design, right? And radios and, and microwaves. And so Apple's air tags are going to let them do a AR that doesn't float. And that's just the start, right? So when, when that gets going, because Apple's about to reboot. Apple's about to move us into a new paradigm of 3D computing on, on that side. And then your community, the, the blockchain community is doing similar things. Like, I was on a Twitter space last night with a bunch of decentraland people, and they're building a, you know, a virtual world and I. E. Part of the Metaverse, and they're seeing a community forum, and we'll see where that community goes after Apple announces. After Apple announces. Apple is really the kickoff of this, of the game, right? All the seven or eight years of Oculus. All right, that was fun. But when Apple announces, even Meta is holding products for after Apple analysis. Unity is holding products, right? Dolby's holding products. There's a whole industry all corked up right now until Apple announces. When Apple announces, then all of a sudden all sort of 3D thinking can ship. And so I think next year is going to be quite exciting. I think it also sets up the next 40 years because this, this series of products that's coming from Meta, from Apple and from others are going to be improved for 40 or 100 to 100 years, right? Like a new laptop. So our laptops are still getting improved 30, 40 years later, right? And so, yeah, I'm excited by where things are going the blockchain and decentralized computing is highly interesting to me. This mesh network. Okay, so back to decentralized. This ultra wideband radio network that's in current Apple products that's not yet really turned on is a mesh network that connects to the inferencing engines that are in the M1 or M2. Now there'll be one in the headset, but Apple can do a whole bunch of AI stuff on the M1 in a decentralized little mesh network in your house. And that'll be a selling point too because Apple will say, well, you know, when you're scanning your, your house and scanning your wife, who might not have clothes on, all that shit stays in your local little house. Networking, it doesn't go to the cloud where Facebook is like everything goes to the cloud because we're going to study the hell out of it and put ads next to you. Right now Apple's moving into ads. So this is a big question, where are they going to take us with the ad network? But this inferencing engine is powerful. A founder who I talked to last week, who's making an AI note taking app is using the M, is using the neural net. So 16.8% of the M1 chip or M2 chip is neural. It's there for machine learning, it's there for AI. And he's using that to do note taking. So he, his system listens to your phone call or your zoom call or Google Meet call and writes notes, transcribes it and does a pretty good job of that and then looks for patterns in, in the, in the meeting, like things you talked about that you have to do, you know, themes, stuff like that. And it organizes a set of notes for you in 300 milliseconds. So there's a lot of new things coming. You're seeing it with the standard diffusions and the DALYs, the large language model, things that are coming. And I was at standard diffusions event 10 days ago so we could talk about that. Yeah, so anyway, so there's a big future coming of 3D computing and you guys have a big, big part in that. NFTs are going to be how, how we do in app purchases eventually, you know, 10 years from now, you know, if cheap Chinese pair of glasses comes out, what are you going to run on that? Right?

And so yeah, I think that's been.

The, where these two communities are going to collide. They're going to be like peanut butter and jelly.

And I think I see it the Same way. Which is, which is exactly why I think a lot of us have been studying the blockchain side of things too. Where your tweet was augmented reality. For augmented reality, blockchain is important. What immediately came to mind for practical purposes was the property element. If you have a digital twin, let's say of a casino, and it's the metaverse, and you can let somebody own some space in that casino or even like a slot machine, it's like the ownership is probably where the blockchain comes into this sort of like AR future I thought of. But I was curious if there's any other use cases that you. I'm not sure if that's too short ended. See what she thinks.

Oh, man. Where should we go with this? The problem is that we're about to see a lot of change and it's hard to navigate through the future.

Right.

Because for instance, I was talking to the founder of Stable, Stable Stability AI, the company that makes Stable Diffusion, which is this large language model they ingested. He said 100,000 gigabytes of data from photos, videos, all sorts of stuff. And now his AI engine hallucinates pictures back to you. Right? But he wants to build a 3D environment where the entire environment around you, you know, is built by AI as you're walking around, right? This is. Video gamers are talking about this technique now. You know, how do you make environments? But here's one, the guy who named VR, he, he wants to build an environment where you can change things with your voice in the environment as they're flying through, as things are flying through the environment and even change the tools that you're holding just by talking like, hey, give me a knife. Now you're cutting a piece of salmon. Give me a screwdriver. Now you're right. And so there's so much change coming that I'm not sure how it's all going to play out. And I think this community needs to go through that change and see what survives through it. Right. And, and the Apple community, same thing. You know what, what survives from the collision with the blockchain communities? Right. Maybe some of the things that they were planning on don't work because all of a sudden you're doing them better than Apple does. And that's quite possible. So it's.

Like, yeah, no, it's so exciting. Do you think Apple. Because I think one of the concerns from the blockchain community, from some of us is how, how. Because you do talk to founders that start companies that get bought by Apple.

Yeah.

What do you think the vibe is from Apple working with Blockchain? Because you're right, everybody's waiting for Apple. Like, even blockchain games on cardano are still like, we want to do VR, like Metaverse or I guess, virtual world projects, but like, we want to do VR, but we got to kind of wait and see what Apple does because they could change the world overnight.

When I worked at Microsoft, Source was just coming on strong, right? The early days of open source. And there was a lot of internal resistance to supporting open source at Microsoft right now. Now they're completely on board there. A lot of their data centers are run on open source. Right. But back then, there was a lot of resistance, and I have a feeling Apple is the same way. Why do you need, you know, why do you need Blockchain? We. We have Apple pay, right. Why do you need NFTs? We have Apple pay.

All right.

There's a lot of.

And, and that'll go away over time as. As the blockchain and. And decentralized communities. The Web three communities ship things that bring real utility and real value to people.

Right.

And that's coming. You can see it's coming, right? There's this collision coming of the Apple world versus this new decentralized Web3 world. And it'll be interesting to see what happens to both entities after the collision. Make sense?

Yeah.

Here's another one that the AI people have been working on. We're about to move from 2D images, JPEGs, videos, blah, blah, blah, to 3D things. They call them neural radiance fields. These are 3D scenes or objects or people or whatever that are hallucinated out of AI after the AI ingest 2D cameras. So I've been posting a bunch of these nerfs, right?

No, I know it's gonna be.

There's a company called Luma.

It's gonna be. Yeah.

Yeah. And so we're about to go into a photorealistic 3D environment that you can shove things to an AI. Like, for instance, one of the companies I just saw lets you ingest 20 pictures of your own, or 20 pieces of art that you created, or 20 things, right? And it starts hallucinating out versions of those, right? And everything in between and everything, you know, mixtures of this. And so it's. We're just in the early days of this where the bleeding edge is just starting to really understand. Understand how to do it and how to build a company. Because it's expensive to build a company. Stable diffusion has $60 million of Nvidia cards. And this is a company that didn't exist a year ago.

Right.

So it takes capital to do that kind of AI to crunch down to ingest 100,000 gigabytes of data. And then it crunches down that model to two gigs so it can run on your phone or on your Mac or on your Windows box or Linux box eventually.

Right.

We don't yet have a good way to look at these nerfs. That's what Apple's going to do. Apple's bringing a web browser, asm, a web assembly, and their own Nerf viewer participant.

Right.

And that's what I'm saying. All of a sudden there's a new thing going to ship and it's going to take a lot of attention away from the world and the crypto community is going to pivot and start using that.

Right.

So it'll be a fun, fun year next year to watch everybody, Chuck and Jack and see if they can make stuff happen. The, the, the money. So I'm talking to a lot of.

Investors, a lot of us. It's like once you have the ui.

No, no, go ahead.

No, I was just, I was just gonna comment because it's kind of nerfs having the UI and having kind of like the platform for a Pokemon Go app to even exist, for it to have a moment. Once that moment happens. Yeah, it's going to change everything, man. And I do think you're right. I think that what we're seeing is this immature incubation in the blockchain community. But there is this element of so many products will be built on top of what Apple decides to do. So it was just interesting. Tc, I just wanted to also say. Tct. It sounded like you might have had a quick comment there.

Yeah, come on in. It's a conversation. I don't want to monopolize this whole thing.

Great. It's great. It's great. You know me, I'm super cognizant, I guess, of like these, these efficiencies.

Right.

Like, like you said, like Apple is gonna do this giant thing. And I pinned some pretty cool questions up to the top that somebody asked in the chat. I'm doing my best to man that chat. And those are all obviously interesting. And I'm just so curious how, like, we see if. I'm sure they're cognizant of it and soar and sort of how they leverage the ability to, to, yeah. Use the blockchain to sort of govern. Right. Or, or just allow a system to evolve or a community to evolve around. Like what you're talking about, right? Sort of the ownership or IP of something in this, you know, as it was called in this, in this question or tweet the Gigaverse, right?

Like, yeah, yeah. When Apple comes, let's say Apple is successful at introducing this new product like they were with the iPhone, right.

There's.

They're going to create a hunger for things to do, digital experiences for people to do. Right. I'm sure they'll have some basic ones, you know, mini golf on your kitchen floor, you know, watch a movie on an IMAX theater.

Right.

That wraps around. That's really what this first device is, is to sell the world on augmented reality and it's apps pretty stunning like that. In reality, better than better TV than my eight thousand dollar TV, right. I have a beautiful 83 inch Sony TV 4K TV and it's stunning to look at even YouTube videos on that thing. The, the quality is most, most consumers haven't seen, you know, don't have a 4K TV in their house or bigger and don't have an 83 inch TV in their house or bigger.

Right.

Most consumers still have a 40 to 65 inch TV and most of them still have 1K TV. They're just starting to think about 4K and the content is just starting to, you know, football games are still in, in 1k. They're not 4k yet, so the content just isn't there yet. And, and you know, things are cooking along there, right. Movies are, are increasingly 4K, TV shows are increasingly 4K and Apple Music has Dolby Atmos surround sound which sounds in my house with a $4,000 Sonos. It sounds like a concert. I just went to a rock concert and I was like, this doesn't sound a whole lot different anymore than my house does. And that's a, that's not something most people have in their homes. They don't have concert level audio in their homes yet, unless you're an audio field.

Right.

So anyway, so there's going to be a lot of hunger, you know, from people who buy this Apple headset or the, or the meta one, right. Like what do we do with this? Where do we go? Can we go shopping? Can we go to concerts? Can we go to fights? Can we go to football games? Can we, you know, and then, oh, what's this Metaverse thing? Oh, you know, there's virtual worlds out there. You can go and play with your friends and hang out, go see museums and churches and conference Rooms and work, you know, stuff like that. And it's this community that I think it is going to be really used. A heavy user of doubt. Because if you're going to create a concert, how do you organize all the, all the musicians that are going to be part of that concert series, right? How do you compensate them? How do you include them? How do you make them part of the profits and you know, all that that you're going to make. And a dowel fits right. Right in there, you know, and that'll be a choice, right? If there'll be conference company number one that does a doubt and there'll be conference company number two that decides to go venture capital.

Right?

The venture. Venture capitalists don't understand content. Silicon Valley doesn't invest in TV shows. That's just not what they do or what we do. We're, we're autistic nerds. We're not high iq, we're not high eq, we're a high iq. Right.

And where, what I see so where my mind starts working is like those. All right, take something like noon. There's a couple projects that are doing this, some that have been like really doing it, working with some of the top like producers and artists and automating those things you were talking about, right? Like how do we not only get those people organized, but then all these, all this, you know, profits, right. All these, all this revenue, royalties, ticket sales, merchandise sales, everything to be able to.

Right.

Not only automate that, but insurance, security and correctness is, Is where I see. Yeah, these collide quite a bit.

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. I don't know that I have much to add there. I'll think about it for a second.

Well, right, because even DOW or not, it's that ability to coordinate that and then insure it and be audited. Right?

Yeah. I mean, you could see like I Went to New York and Went to Sleep no More, which is a off Broadway play that's a non traditional play. There's no state. You're in the stage, you walk into this warehouse and the play happens all around you. Well, that's perfect metaphor for, you know, the metaverse. Some, some group of playwrights could get together and create a virtual warehouse like that and recreate Sleep no More and you could go to Sleep no More, virtually. Well, all the, all the artists who are planning that could get together and organize themselves on a dao. What. Why would you need to do that as a venture capital thing? That's not a venture capital. That's not what Venture capital is about, right? So there's going to be new business models to bring new experiences to people. And you guys are doing the business model. That's why I'm real interested. Because it's like, all right, you guys are nerdy. You haven't figured out how to get consumers hot bothered yet, but that'll happen. You guys are building interesting organizational structures that could make a lot of things out on, you know, when the metaverse actually happens.

So one example too that was interesting was there's a, like a play to earn gaming project on Cardano called Cornucopias and they have a guild. And what Adao did was they created basically like a way to sort of decentralize a Treasury, which is like a multi sig wallet. So not one person has the keys to that wallet. And you can do a lot with a multisig. You can assign people from like a guild to basically have the ability to sign off on transactions if they wanted to purchase some set of assets. You could automate potentially like the, the flow of capital for that guild to pay players that participate in leagues that are built in a gaming project that win awards for the guild, but use the assets from the guild's treasury to participate in like a race car, like league race, for example. So it's just really interesting seeing some of the projects that are already using Adao's tools and yeah, it's really, it's interesting. It's like a homegrown feel for sure, especially on Cardano where these projects are being kind of community funded. But it is going to be these communities, watching them grow and not needing the venture capital and being able to self organize. It's one of my favorite aspects of Blockchain because I think there is some huge potential there. It's just still figuring it out and watching it.

Yeah, I think you use that model on the Apple headset now you have a user base that has money. There's a lot to happen. I did some work with Red Bull and Red Bull already knows if they put a logo in a 3D environment that people who are in that environment remember the logo a lot more than if they see the same logo on a 2D screen like on Twitter. And I think this is why. This is the secret reason that I think Elon bought Twitter because he recognizes we're about to go through a paradigm shift of moving from 2D screens over the next decade to 3D screen to wearing glasses and computing that way. And you guys are perfectly set up to jump in and provide a lot of things.

Yeah.

That's interesting. That's so interesting. I hear your takes on Elon, and I think your quote, Robert, is he's an everything guy. So one of my questions was what you thought of him officially, you know, letting the bird free.

I guess I'm scared too, because, you know, I've been on Twitter 16 years. I'm used to it, right? It sucks, but I'm used to it. And so here comes a lot of change. And change is scary.

A lot of.

A lot of people are like, oh, I'm going. I'm, you know, somewhere else, right? Mastodon. Because I. I don't want to deal with this change, right? I don't want to deal with Trumpers coming back in my community, stuff like that. Oh, man.

Yeah, it's. It's gonna be. It's already.

His teams at Tesla are already doing work with neural radiance fields because the cars can build. Okay, So a neural radiance field is built from a standard camera, right? In fact, the tool I use, you can actually just take a video walking around like a shed or a basketball or whatever you want to capture, and you stick the video into their engine. They have a video uploader, and it ingests it, and then it spits back a 3D scene based on the video you just sent. I just did one of the bars a couple nights ago where I just walked around the bar with my iPhone and it made the Nerf. It made a 3D scene of the bar, right? And so now you start thinking, oh, wait a second, my iPhone camera can do that. Well, the Tesla has nine cameras on it. Why can't the Tesla do that? Of course it can. Ashtrack, who runs the AI team at Tesla, already showed off. Oh, yeah, our Tesla's gonna build Nerfs. And so they've already done the engineering to figure out how to do that. Right?

That's really cool because I've been. Like I said, I've been trying to man this text, and one of the questions I got multiple times was like, I want, you know, ask Robert his thoughts on, like, when we might see what Elon's doing with Neuralink and the company developing that. Start playing a big role in sort of the evolving AR VR base.

He moved the Neuralink date to the end of November. I think in November 30, he's going to talk about Neuralink. And you're right on. By studying, like, pig brains, you really understand how brains work. And that has got to be leading to AI breakthroughs that we haven't heard about yet. Right. Because if you understand how neurons work at a deep level, can't you write a digital neuron better?

Right, Aaron?

So, so I'm, I'm interested in what, what they've been learning by doing all their researches.

Right.

They have a pig walking around with a computer, is talking to the pig and the pig is talking to the computer. Something.

It seems, at the top of a lot of people's minds. I got a lot of questions about like data infrastructure and, and how that might be leveraged or captured right. By a lot of this stuff. And if you talk to Emad, who.

Runs stable Diffusion, he's ingesting protein folding. He's doing protein folding with his AI engine. So it doesn't just spit out hallucinate art, it hallucinates out other things. And we haven't even really tapped into that yet because it's expensive to buy $60 million worth of Nvidia cards to do the training.

Right?

That sounds like a doubt. A Dow needs to get organized so you can buy some, some AI researchers, some Nvidia cards. Right. And build something cool on the metaverse. That does really crazy, right?

Yeah. And very useful too, right?

Absolutely. Note taking.

I.

There's one I played with this last week that built an entire website on my phone in less than 30 seconds with photos, with word. It wrote the words it wrote, it built the e commerce site all in 30 seconds. It's like a done website. I'm like, where was this?

Gonna have a lot more drop shipping for sure when that comes out, a lot more drop shippers 100%, especially in the metaverse. I think about that too a lot where you can drop ship products, have a personality. Speaking about wines, you can basically just like literally host wine tastings where you're talking about a case or a vintage and dropship that directly to people. But yeah, the AI building the website on the 2D interface, that's pretty nuts. If it's actually building all the words and descriptions, that's insane.

And yeah, there's a lot, a lot coming. It's. I mean, I saw five startups this last week. I'm like, oh man, this AI world is shifting a lot of things. And the car, the Dow world is shifting things. Right. So that the web3world is shipping things. So I'm like, wow, there's a lot of change coming for human beings and that's terrifying. But it also means a lot of opportunity as more people get pulled into these.

Things.

Right. Metaverse AI.

So what is Your read currently on. Do you have any thoughts on. Just like. Because one thing I wanted to ask you too Robert, is you've been through a couple moments like we're going through now, which is a massive change. Yeah, Crypto is definitely one of those industries where we're all looking at regulation. We're all trying to find every little interview, every little news bit on anything about crypto regulation in real time because it can affect things quite drastically. Has. Was this pretty. Was like from your history, is this a pretty normal sequence of event for like a new tech like blockchain?

I mean take it away from the blockchain. The AI world is. I've found 26000 people who are working in AI and almost all of them are PhD level people. Like they're really, really smart people. And you can see that when you read the papers that this industry is kicking out, right. I've never seen anything like this. It didn't exist before. This is a software technique that didn't exist, exist 10 years ago. And now there's 26,000 people doing it at a high level. Right. And they're kicking off. I mean every day I'm. This morning I saw another paper, right. I mean there's papers every few hours lately, right. So there's a lot of innovation coming from that community. Then you have the BL. The Web3 community is doing the same thing. Then you have the augmented reality community. It's been playing for a while, right. And that's just gonna get lit up because of Apple. So yeah, a lot of, a lot of change and a lot of opportunities for people to build new things with new technologies and new approaches. It's exciting. And we've got the Stoners Club coming up.

They're growing like crazy.

Oh, are we supposed to smoke weed when this guy's off? I don't know about the club. What's the Stoners Club?

Yeah, it is, it is quite up and coming group in Cardano. They, they get a visit from Mr. Hoskinson every now and then. They had a big presence at the, the two big events, Cardano events this past month. So they always seem to get a shout out here in all these spaces.

Well, they're a shallow AI group.

Shallow AI?

No, the story is. The story. The right, the proper story is there's character, Big Joe and he, he loves Cardano and he loves, you know, being a stoner and basically it was about kind of the inclusive nature of these Cardano Twitter spaces and how things evolved because at first all the Twitter spaces around Cardano were very formal, right? They were just like very formal. And Big Joe, he likes to have fun and talk about Cardano. And guess what? He found other people that like to have fun and talk about Cardano. So he grew this massive Twitter space and they call it the Cardado Stoners Club. It's actually a pretty beautiful thing, not gonna lie.

Never underestimate the stoners, by the way. I was in Israel and met a startup that did really cool computer vision shit, you know. And after the interview was over, they said, where do you think all those features came from? I go, I don't know, you're all smart. You get together and you come up with interesting ideas of how to use the camera and AI to do various things. And he goes, sort of. I guess the truth is we pull out a bag of weed, he pulls out a bag of weed. We get stoned in our business meetings and that's how we come up with new features. I'm like, oh, that's interesting, right? There's something there.

So.

And I've heard this many times from engineering team. Oh yeah, we get stoned at our engineering. We go and get stoned and that's how we come up with shit. That's how my brain get. Starts going into flow state and getting into, you know, building things when I'm stoned. We have new governance parameters that we need to build into. Salmon get stolen during meetings.

And Docker Nvidia, that's the, that's the framework a lot we're using at that big event in Denver last month. And I'll tell you, coming out of there, some of the projects that we've started working on and collaborations are. Yeah, just, just amazing. So I, I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't overlook that. But. But yeah, man, some of these questions in this chat are great and, and sort of they might be practicing that framework as, as well because I see questions about like, not even just glasses, contact lenses again, the way that a lot of these just unique, special or, or like specific use case assets are going to be not only owned and displayed, but, but sort of that, that process, right. Of royalties, rights, data rights, all that sort of automated and owned.

I went to a Web3 dinner on Thursday night and they sat me next to the guy who runs Mojo Vision, which is the company building the contact lenses, and he gave me a demo. It's science fiction. The display, the. Okay, so he's building a sensor and display that goes in the middle of the black part of your human eye and One side of it is sticking, is spitting light from a OLED device display on the back of your eye. And it works. It's. I could see pictures, I could see text, I could see even crude video. It's, it's gray, it's green and black right now. But RGB is coming and it's science fiction. I still don't think that it will be the company that goes to the consumer because they just don't have music and movies and all the things that it takes to get a consumer on, bothered by such a thing. But Apple, Apple or Tesla or some company or, or a Dow that gets really rich, right? Could buy this company and now you, you have a 40 PhDs who are working for you, right?

No, it's amazing like, like you said.

Some of the, it's a strategic product. The, the technology is science fiction. They're working so small now. It's, it's just when you see it, it's like this shouldn't work. And it does. It's like, wow.

Yeah. No, it is. It's amazing to see some of the minds and academic work that's coming out.

And I figure that's still 10 years from a consumer, right? They, they try to put a brave face on. Oh no, we're two years away. But no, you're two years away from Navy seals using it. This needs a lot more than just a display. That's a little tiny display and that's green. You know.

I agree. I don't. Consumers, Robert. That's the case. I'll drop off and, and join again.

Oh yeah. Robert, can you hear tct?

I think sometimes I can hear all of you. Can you hear me?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. He was trying to, I think he tried to, he tried to say something, but I didn't know if you could hear, but.

I'm sorry.

What's up, boss?

Nope, I, I got too concerned that he couldn't hear me. So who knows? Who knows?

But I heard you.

I heard you because I had one actually like two tct. So like what's been funny, Robert, is I've been looking at all these different communities and some of the DAOs that are using the tooling that ADAO builds because that's kind of what I view them as, is kind of like a B2B company that builds these, these tools for like these communities to, to work more efficiently and automate like DAO tool.

Yeah.

They are also a dao. So ADAO is a dao. So it's been interesting because they have one of the highest, I believe like participation rates out of like there's a few cardano daos that have high participation rates. But that's one of the things when you can align the incentives of a dao and make people actually want to participate. So I was just curious, tct, while we have Robert up here, if maybe you could speak to that a little bit. What do you think is the secret sauce? Because I think you guys have a killer participation rate, which is a huge challenge for daos and maybe we could take it somewhere towards VR, Arkansas, the Metaverse after. I don't know, just food for thought.

Oh yeah. I mean, man, there's no way I could do it real justice in a few lines. I think a Dallas such a unique case because like you said, the only motive to sort of get involved through this whole first year, right. Has been, you know, passion, right? And I think we were just in the right spot, the right people found it. And what I commented earlier, I remember it was that you started seeing these just brilliant academics, developers, technologists come in. You know, they all had full time jobs, right? Working at universities or they had their own business, maybe they weren't even in tech. And it just grew so large. But I think that was the key factor, right? That it was merit based and sort of passion based. And so that, you know, that, that came to my mind when he started talking about these daos, right? These organizations sort of buying this, this company, right? I started thinking immediately, well, I see a lot of them building these companies, right? And yeah, a lot of them, that's going to be their goal to sort of sell this to somebody like Apple. But a lot of them sort of evolve, right? Especially something that is sort of based more on chain, right? They sort of evolved to a point where that's not really possible. It's more of this like community, right. Of people. And a lot of them are organizations, right? So we see both, we see these very organic, grassroots, sort of passion projects and then we see a lot of them turn into these, yeah. Extremely efficient organizations. Music streaming is like the easiest example we can see, right? With automated royalties and producer rights. Yeah, I think it's just like you said, we can't really fathom, I think sort of how this is going to evolve in a few years. And yeah, what I'm super interested in and passionate about building is these tools to like you said, sort of streamline, automate that and make it a good experience, right. Where these people are not only passionate, right, but can actually have ownership and really do this For a living, as an organization, as a community, as just an individual.

Makes sense to me. I bet. Cloud computing dramatically changed the game for startups. Right before cloud computing happened, you had to buy or rent a cage in a data center and put, you know, 100 computers in there all and hook them all up and, you know, all that. That's expensive to build a company that way. Soho took me into their data center in the early days, right.

They.

There was no Amazon or Azure and Google Cloud back then, right. Now, why is Andreessen investing in Web3 so heavily? I think he wants a real breakthrough in the cost structure of building a startup. Why do we need to put all that shit up on Amazon Cloud or, you know, wherever and pay their fee if we can run a decentralized system in the, in the neighborhood. And the decentralized system in the neighborhood makes a lot of sense if I'm going to play a lot of games against my neighbors in VR.

Right.

Why do those packets need to go to the cloud? They should just stay in the neighborhood where the latency is fairly good. Right. I can get a packet from here to my neighbor's house pretty fast. Right. So, yeah, I'm excited by that. I don't think that's really gelled because it's just hasn't come together yet. But the early days of that are happening and so I'm watching the Web3 space just for that, a piece of it just for that. And then there's all these other things that are going to enable, you know, virtual worlds to work and be fun and have a good community and, and have good, you know, fun things to do and, you know, concerts or whatever you're going to do.

Right, I see, I see.

Davids are tougher because Amazon Music told me they're doing Dolby Atmos concerts next summer. So, you know, the big boys are going after concerts and football and stuff like that. So that might be some place where the, the older Apples and Amazons keep, you know, a lot of people. But hey, Rob, there's. There's movement even there.

Right?

Go ahead. No, I agree.

People are getting. They've been requesting forever, if you don't mind. A lot of people come on up. They talk to me. They want, I think they want to talk to you. Let's Washington.

I want to talk to them because I'm learning a lot from talking to you guys and I'm needing to upgrade my skills on web 3 and crypto and stuff like that so that I can explain to people what's Going on. Yeah, I did this.

So, yeah, this, this is just amazing. It's given so many ideas. Mr. Washington, are you still there?

I'm still here. So I heard about your $4,000 Sonos. I'm an audiophile myself. I have over $40,000 in home dealer equipment and, oh, I'm jealous. HDR, OLED. I've got the $4,000 gaming PC. But I think one of the things.

Better, by the way, Linda Wyman just.

Built a new house.

She's a billionaire. She started with Linda dot com. Her, her audio room cost more than $300,000. There's always better.

I mean, I think one of the things that people, once they talk about the Metaverse, is that the tech is really early because it's expensive. Not everyone has three grand to dump on a Magic Leap headset or $4,000 to put into a gaming PC and actually make it look good.

Yep. This big problem, the people who are making the optics, like Loomis from Israel, they're making the wave guides for the augmented reality glasses that are coming in two years. They know that it's cheaper to make a glasses, they told me, than to make a cell phone. The problem is Apple spent $40 billion. Zuckerberg is spending $3 billion a quarter on his thing. And those people want their money back. So they're gonna have a higher price for a while, for let's say four, four years or so to get.

Yeah. It wasn't surprising me to. Surprising to me to see that 3 billion dollar loss because the tech just isn't really accessible yet. It's a concept at the moment.

No. And they're doing. Meta has, I don't know, I found about a hundred of these AI researchers working at Meta. So that's pretty expensive right there. Just that the, the network I talked to you about that, that alone is 3 billion dollar investment. And now I tried to get Bill gates to spend $300 million and failed. So I know how hard it is to try to get big companies spend this kind of money. Who went into Tim Cook's office and say you need to build a new MET network and you need to put a lot of AI on the next M1 chip, right. Who, who went into Tim Cook's office and got $3 billion just for those two things? Right. It wasn't me. I think it was Steve Jobs. I think Steve Jobs actually started this whole thing.

Yeah. Speaking of cost from a consumer perspective, I think distributed computing is going to be really big. We really need to improve our Internet, especially in the United States for that to be possible. Just Internet of things distributed computing, so you don't have to buy a really expensive machine just for yourself. I think Google tried and failed with Stadia, but the latency is just too high. When it gets to be 50, 60 milliseconds, you're going to start to have some input lag and run into trouble.

Yeah. Or you're just going to do the hallucinator in your house.

Right.

It's a crazy world that's about to come, man.

Definitely. It was interesting that you mentioned Neural Radiance Fields because the first experience that I had with something similar was Far Cry 5 and I believe Red Dead Redemption 2 and Resident Evil 7, where they had used photogrammetry and took over 200,000 real world images of the locations they were basing the games off of. And that was the point where the assets in the game started to just not be hundreds of copies that were procedurally generated. But some of the trees and shrubbery and flora actually had different characteristics and damage to them.

This is a nice thing about nerfs, by the way. They're very compact. The AI, when it hallucinates, the 3D scene makes it very small. If one of the scenes was like less than nine megabytes, that's not big. You know, you can almost download that on a 28.8 modem.

That's amazing.

I mean, just a couple years ago I was used to downloading the 60 gigabyte 4K texture packs.

Yeah. And so this world is, is changing to sort of take advantage of the architectures that are coming. I mean, I have a 5G radio in my phone. Right. A millimeter wave radio, Huawei. When, when they took me to their labs, they showed me 5G doing 25 gigabits per second. Now 5G in my neighborhood only does two, so. So they're in lab in the perfect situation, they can get a lot, 10 times more than I'm getting already. And I'm already getting so much that I can't use it. You can't use two gigs a second on your phone. What are you gonna do, watch an 8 that doesn't even take.

Yeah, that's one of the things that never made sense to me about gigabit Internet on cell phones. Because if your Data cap is 40 or 50 gigabytes, why do I need 2 gigabits per second?

You might eventually, if you're throwing around 3D worlds right to each other, or, or a lot of 3dness. But you know, we can do Some really cool things with very little space now. Right. We don't need to go completely crazy to, to provide a really interesting experience to people. I mean, these Nerfs are like full on 3D scene. Like, like I have a tree in my backyard. I can walk around the tree, take 30 pictures, put them into the Nerf builder and out comes an entire 3D scene of the entire world around the tree.

Right.

It's crazy.

I, I thought something really.

What's about to come for people next year is going to be quite interesting to see evolve. And it's evolving very quick. This is a technique that was impossible three years ago and a year ago it took hours to compress 30 pictures into a scene. Now it does it on my phone and. Yeah, okay, yeah, it takes 45 minutes on my phone, but still.

Well, that's when I think of my Nvidia RTX 3080 with the release of the 4000 series. It's a mid range 4K card now, but to be able to handle ray tracing in real time, whereas with Toy Story 2 it would take you an hour to render one frame. That's just a crazy improvement to go from basically a data center in a room to a home computer.

Yeah, that's sort of how it happens, right? With tech we have these giant leaps that is just. I'm excited for this next one because it feels like it's coming soon. January and you better just jump.

It's coming in January, by the way.

That's pretty amazing. What I, I saw you pop your hand up as soon as they started talking about that. But what do you have, what do you add?

I know, I was just curious more about what he's thinking with like data, what's coming up. Because data centers are still just growing like crazy, right? There's like so many places to put the data. But like is, is there going to be any kind of competition in this decentralized way or is this still far out? And I don't know if you've seen things like Theta Network where they're gonna be like, you know, they're trying to get people to stream with people around their neighborhood. Kind of like you're thinking to in your location. But paying them out in like crypto is kind of how it's working now. But do you see that even happening or will Apple kind of provide some kind of discount for people doing something? I don't really know.

This is an interesting question. I think you're gonna need the data center for a bit to do high end to do this high end AI ingestion and hallucination thing.

Right.

Large language model, like I call it hallucination because it's fun to think about it that way. And that's sort of what it's doing. But it's hallucinating 3D scenes so it looks like, it looks like the real world.

Right.

That needs a lot of, a lot of Nvidia cards right now to do that. And can you think about doing that in a decentralized way?

I.

That's hard. Right. But there's a lot of workloads that don't need Nvidia cards that can be done in a decentralized way.

Right.

And keep us off of Amazon and keep our stuff more private. That'll be something for this community too, right? Hey, we have a way to keep your data, your data.

Right.

The blockchain lets you do keep the data of what you're looking at, what you're touching, what you're holding, what you're shooting, what you're playing with.

Right.

Can all be. Be on your phone or on your laptop. Doesn't need to go to a cloud computing service where your privacy is taken away from you. And that'll get a lot of people enthusiastic about what you're building. Right. Because we're about to move into a world where you're gonna scan every thing in your home and upload it. Probably.

Yeah, I think we already kind of are. Right.

Yeah.

But even like you're. If you have like a ring doorbell, I think like they can send that footage to like the police and stuff like that easily. Oh yeah, yeah. Everything getting scanned in your house by your Roomba, which will. Isn't that owned by Amazon or soon to be owned by Amazon?

Yes, yes. And my Sonos, I have to build a 3D map of my room with my phone.

Right.

The Sonos app has a feature where you train your room by playing set of tones for 60 seconds and walking around with your phone. And it's listening to the reflectivity of the surfaces in your room.

Right.

As you're walking around. So it readjusts the AI readjusts the audio for your room. Right. Makes it sound better. Well, wait until Apple gets a hold of that and takes the 3D map of your entire room and goes, oh, that's stucco. That has this kind of reflectivity. That's a monitor that has this kind of reflectivity that's, you know, just a coffee table that has different kind of reflectivity. Oh, there's a couch over here that has different kind of reflectivity. Right. Redoes all the reflectivity for the audio.

Yeah. That place sounds a lot cooler to hang out than Discord or an office.

Bingo.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's. That's what I see coming. And not in 10 years either, because I just, I see. I see a lot of stake pool operators in here. And like, it is amazing what passionate people can do, especially when, you know, it ultimately is securing this network that they own. So, yeah, I. I'm pretty impressed with where we're going and. And I think we're going to see one of those exponential leaps coming up within the next few years.

Maybe next year. Next year. The next year is actually big for a lot of reasons. Not just Apple, you know, there's a lot of things happening.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, real quick, because it was funny. I was in Denver at the rarebloom event and we got a chance, me and actually Subcritical had a chance to see something really interesting that we can't post yet, but we could like, kind of, I guess, talk about. And it was Alex from Singularity Team. And what they did was so fascinating because I think it's really going to wake people up when they see it, which was they recorded the entire event. So, like, you're going to base. I look at it as time travel, man, honestly, because you're basically going to be able to go in and we got to see it on the computer and they're going to be adding all the speeches too. So one room was the speakers that gave their speeches, you know, and the other room was basically these booths where you had people kind of handing out flyers or talking about their projects building on Cardano. And they recorded the entire event in a 3D way. And they basically made a verse that displays like, all the booths and then in the other room, all the speakers. And you're going to be able to go to the speaker room and there's like a panel that we sought that basically you're going to fill the speaker's content because each recording was different, so they have to fill those in. So you choose what you want to, like, look and listen to. And it's basically like time travel because all the people that were listening in that room, you can think about all the conversations that were happening at the booth. You can just kind of go back in and look at. So I think things like that are waking people up really fast at how far stuff is. It's exponential tech, you know.

So.

So the team should talk to my wife because my. My wife works at VMware on the conference team. They have a hundred thousand attendees at their event every year.

Right?

But more importantly, she's on a committee of conference people at Salesforce, Apple, Cisco, Meta, A bunch of these big tech company conference teams. And so if you convince one of those people to use your thing like this, oh, man, the whole. The whole industry will adopt it quick. Because they're looking for stuff like this.

Dude, that's what they said. They're developing it as a service. So, like, it's exactly right, man. 100. Because it's the same team that developed the song Singularity. And basically they are building it. So it's like an. I look at it as like an SDK, right? That you could basically, like, build these environments for people. They need to film them in a 3D way, but that's already being done, right? So they're going to be building these, like, metaverses.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You don't. You don't need to film in 3D. You just need to film in 2D. The AI will ingest the 2D video and make a 3D scene out of it. And Unity says they have nerfs running with one photo will make a 3D scene. So think about looking at your grandpa's photos, scanning them in, and now it's a 3D scene. You can walk around in augmented reality. It's sick. What's coming.

That's amazing.

So, yeah, so it's pretty crazy.

And if you.

If you took just a single, you know, sweep of the room, now you have a NERF of the room. So the room and the speaker are separate nerfs. Right? You don't need to sit in the room. The room doesn't move.

Right?

So there's a lot of. A lot, a lot to come. I. I'm so excited. What you just told me is like, oh, my. My wife. If it actually works, where they can put. Put it into VMware's conference schedule and it spits out 3D rooms like this. Oh, my. That's gonna be cool.

Yeah.

One thing he was kind of talking about was, you know, like, you can kind of have these memories that are just stored as data, just like living forever, right? Like, just think, like, if you and your wife went to, like, a concert and then like, 10 years later, you're like, let's relive that again. And you just go back, hook up in, and you just explore it again. Just relive it.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Dude, think about Burning Man. If Burning man was done, like, or like not even. What am I talking about? Like Woodstock or like all these, all these like concerts that no Burning man.

Is a good one to talk about.

Okay. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, is a good one to talk about because you can. Because the, the artist who built the physical Burning man, the structures there, a lot of them build. Take the, the CAD models for their structures and pull them into blender and then fix them up and then take them into alt Space VR. There's actually a Burning man in al Space VR. It's pretty fun to do. It's just not photorealistic yet. And it's not real. It's. It's not experiential like going to the real Burning man. Because your headphones suck. Your visual sucks. Right? That by the end of next year that is not going to be true. You're going to have concert level audio on your headphones.

Right.

Even today's AirPod pros that I'm talking to you on, the new ones, they have two H2 chips in them. That and an ultra wideband chip. The headphones are going to sound better next year when they turn on the network because they're going to be able to pass higher resolution music down to your headphones and process it better. Right. So, so even by the end of next year, Even your current $250 headphones are going to sound better by the end of next year than they do right now.

Yeah.

Don't they even like map your ears now to like know how the sound should come out? That's just so wild.

Yeah, that's called hrtf. They call it personalized Spatial Audio. Let me be accurate about that. Sound, Sound, sound.

It's strange to me how long it took us to get lossless audio streams given that we have so much bandwidth now, like 190, 192 kilohertz, 24 bit stream should have been a standard at least four years ago because we have fiber optic Internet now. It's just strange that we've been hanging on to MP3 level audio for so.

Long because there's, I've argued it with. So I have the world's largest Dolby Atmos collection, right? If you want Dolby Atmos, I got it all. Apple, my, my list of 20 times bigger than Apple's own spatial audio list.

Right.

When I talk to people about music, they all have attitude. Every single person has that. It's like I, I like my Spotify playlist, you know, and that kind of thing. And so there hasn't been a reason to get most People, most people can't. Can't really hear that well and certainly can't tell you what. What sounds better.

What.

Not unless you put them into a double blind testing lab and make them pick like. Okay, you listen to that. Does that sound better or does that sound better? Sean Olive down at Harmon has one of these labs and he actually changed the headphone industry by having this lab, the speaker industry, because he discovered that audio fields were lying. They would say, oh, this speaker sounds better. Then you put them into a double blind lab. It turns out that it didn't sound better at all. They thought it sound better because it was more expensive or had a brand name on it that they liked.

Right.

So humans. Humans are funny about music.

Definitely.

When I tell people that my headphones are $1,700, they think I'm insane until they hear them. My Audi's LCD X and a nice IFI dac.

You got the Audis. Those are pretty.

Yeah.

Wait. Wait until you hear these little silicon speakers I have at the top of my Twitter feed. They're cheaper and they sound better. Silicon chips that make audio in your ears is crazy, right?

That's pretty wild. I mean, I was impressed a few years ago when LG and Sony started to come out with acoustic surfaces for organic LED screens.

Yeah.

Oh, we lost Jay Crypto for a second. I see wheels come up too. They only come up when they have a super interesting commenter or talk.

Come on up. Yeah.

Tell me.

I'm full of.

Come on.

Mike Arrington once we were doing a panel discussion, something he turned to me right before the panel. I guess now if, you know, it's our job to entertain. So what are we gonna fight about?

I'm like, what?

Yeah, what are we gonna fight about? I'm like, I don't know. It was.

I'm surprised you haven't got any pushback yet. I think. I think a lot of us are just sort of, like I said, at least my mind thinking about all these people doing a lot of this stuff, sort of from all these different ends. And I do see them converging quite a bit even as we speak. But Wheels, did you have something I saw you pop up to speaker.

Oh, no, no, I just. I popped in late. I did want to add something about Singularity, that when Alex and what they were doing was brought up the recording the entire Rare Bloom conference with their drones so that other people could attend the conversations moved on a bit. But like, I'm happy to. To comment on anything else that comes up.

No, it's it's an interesting. I've been in the conference business and community business since the 80s. My. My wife still is in that business. Right. So it's interesting. I. I want to attend conferences from my home. I don't want to go on in planes anymore.

Right.

Yeah.

There's a lot of community like that that can't afford to travel to these industry conferences. Right. They can probably even pay a good fee. 500 bucks to watch Ted at home is a lot cheaper than spending 7, 500 on the ticket and 3,000 on the airplane and the. And the hotel, right?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

I mean, America's Funniest Videos.

You.

You spend fifteen hundred dollars to maybe win a thousand dollars.

Yeah. And that's come. It's coming. It's just not here. It's not. It's not all put together right where it really feels good, but it's coming.

Yeah.

You can see it's coming. The VR community has, like, Vera Bella, a company called Vera Bella has a whole conference business. And they, they built VMware, a virtual campus. And so you can, you know, start up your Mac or your Windows box and join the campus and sit there and work with people on 2D screens. But if you put on a VR headset now you're in the same space, but you're in 3D, you're immersed in the space, and you can actually collaborate with people and work on 3D things. Right.

The card or something like that. That was one of the things that Alex mentioned to us when we spoke to him. There were a lot of people on the Singularity Net team who had made plans to attend rarebloom, but so many of them had fallen ill, there was no way that they could attend. He was very bummed out by that. Oh, I did have a question. I don't know if this came up in the talk already, since I just woke up shortly. What's your opinion on Facebook, on Meta, like, when I spoke to Alex, he said that they're one of the big players actually pushing for mass consumer retail availability of VR, you know, throwing money behind this tech. So he was grateful for that as much as a bad reputation that Zuckerberg has.

Yeah, he does deserve credit for that. I think that earns him a place at the table. And when Apple comes next year, he's gonna have a lot to say about it, and he's gonna have products and he's gonna be somewhat listened to, and the choices he's making on building his products are going to lead to cheaper products. Than Apple is. So he's definitely going after the, the mass market with VR and we'll see how it all works out. I think he has to go through next year and, and see what comes out the other side of this. But he has so many advantages that he hasn't yet done anything. For instance, in Horizon Worlds, you're building, you know, a 3D world around you. You can't make that photorealistic yet. You can't bring in photos from Instagram. He owns Instagram. How many pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge does he have? Millions. Why can't we build a Nerf out of, you know, of the Golden Gate Bridge and bring it into Horizon Worlds? We can't do that. So will that be a true statement in two years? I don't think so, because somebody's going to figure out how to do that.

What kind of frame rates are they pushing on entry level VR headsets? That's not something I really looked into because the frame rates are my understanding. A lot of the HTC Vibes and Oculus Rifts, generally you need a pretty decent GPU to run them. And you have to maintain 90 frames per second on each lens. And it has to be perfect because any screen tearing or artifacts, you're going to notice it's really right in front of your eye.

It leads to sickness too, that as we get higher and higher rates, the inequality between what your eyes are seeing and what your ears are hearing is going down. And that reduces the sickness. But we're still a ways away from that. It's not the frame rate so much, although that does play into it. It's the number of polygons. And here's a good way to explain it. If you go into VR chat with a Quest without an Nvidia card, you can have fun. You can see everybody, you can be there. It's just you're not seeing everybody's real costume. If you plug that Quest into an Nvidia card or gaming PC, now all of a sudden you get to see everybody's costumes because it can display more polygons to you to, to your eyes.

Right?

And so there's an advantage to having a lot of GPU near you. Apple will take a big bite out of that, right, because they're putting an M2 chip on the headset. And the M2 chip has a huge neural capability and has pretty good gpu. It's faster than the Qualcomm chipsets that go into the Quest. So we'll see where we are. But you know, the first Apple product's probably going to be $3,000. It's too expensive for the consumer. Meta's product is 400 bucks, right. The quest that lets a lot more people buy it. So I'll have probably a different answer in January than I do today, but it's something I care about.

Maybe you have the answer to this question. Why do you think Nvidia has moved away from NV link and SLI? I mean, if you can buy two GPUs and use them in tandem, that's nice. I understand it was only a 50 increase rather than 100 boost, but I'm just trying to understand why they moved away from that. People used to have dedicated Physx cards, even with the 900 series GPUs.

I think because that team is totally dedicated to building data centers. I mean, if you have a customer who just bought $60 million worth of Nvidia cards, you're helping them out. You're not thinking about the guy who's gonna buy two.

Right.

That makes sense.

I think that's where you need this. So what's going on? The A100 cards in the data center are being chained together with fiber optic links from the company just said.

Right.

Nvidia bought a company to do the fiber optic link between all the cards and then they did a partnership with VMware to virtualize the whole thousand and GPUs into one thing. Right. So somebody like Standard Diffusion can use it to build a model or Tesla or whoever going to use all these GPUs. Tesla has a shitload of GPUs in their data center to do what they're doing. Right?

Yeah. It's going to be so interesting to see how Twitter is integrated with Tesla in my opinion, and what the future kind of, I think it might take time, but what the future kind of integrations are. And I don't know, it's going to be interesting how much Twitter changes again just because it's like a relevant current event topic. But it's going to be so interesting.

Man. I want a huge amount of AI tools for Twitter, but that's sort of off topic. The AI that's coming along is, is pretty sick when you see what, what the big Fortune 50 companies have. They have AIs that, that ingest all their sales data and ingest all sorts of data from other places in the world. These things have already sucked up the web, right? So they've already ingested the web into some of these bigger AIs that are coming and One of them, that is an Israeli startup, showed me they're working with a Fortune 50 company that has retail stores in Japan and they ingested their sales data and ingested a few other things. They found out that the locations that are located right next to a laundromat did better. So the company changed its strategy, started buying laundromats, started building laundromats next to its other locations and it's made billions of dollars doing, just doing that strategy so far.

Right.

So the AI is going to show us things in Twitter that you just can't see. I can't, I can watch a hundred thousand people on, on Twitter. I can't watch 200 million people.

Right.

But an AI can. And so I'm expecting big changes in like trends.

Right.

And even information about each other like oh, this person's not trusted.

Right.

They, I could know that.

Well that's Robert. That's exactly. So we, we talk a lot about the SSI space, you know, self sovereign identity and the potential to like own your data and on a social media platform like monetize your own data. What do you think about that? Do you think there's potential in that or do you think that that's just too big of an ask?

I think there is, but I don't think it's found product market fit yet. So that, that idea I think needs to be played out a bit more to find a use case for why people would want to do that rather than give Apple all their data from their Apple watch. Right.

And the company providing the service also has to make money and that's why some of these startups have failed where they try to give you full data sovereignty because then they rely on donations and the average individual using that platform doesn't even want to give you $5.

Well, and I think what we see with identity, just identity, a lot of it is like, it's not easy. The user, I think enough.

No. And this is something that the big companies are working on. It's called multimodal identity. In other words, the identity that doesn't require you to put in just a password is the, the glasses that you're about to get are, have eye sensors and can see, see that it's you when you put them on.

Right.

Your voice is very unique to you, your heart rate is very unique to you. So that's three modes right there. So computer, computer can listen for your heart rate, can look at your eyes, can listen to your voice and know it's you.

Yep, 100%. And that you know, that is a technology, right, that can allow for like easy user friendly crypto custody, right. If you don't have to remember a seed phrase, you just have to have a pair of glasses or that scan your biometrics, right? Your retina or something.

You just have to make sure you don't have a identical twin and you're good.

Well, an identical twin doesn't have identical fingerprints or retina usually. But if you did, your voice is also slightly different. If you did, your heart is slightly different, your heart rate is slightly different. Right? So even with identical twins, the government sri, the lab that built theory and built the Internet and among other things, the mouse, they showed me a system that listens to you and for a few words and it knows it's you. And they gave me some helium and it had me change my voice, still knew it and was me, right? Because it's listening to the frequencies coming off your vocal cords and that's very hard to fool.

Well, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm wondering how the multimodal biometrics would work for me because, because I'm plural. So we have different voices and different heart rates. The people who work in ADA fucking know. Like they, they've heard me and some of my other guys and in fact, a lot of people, when they first hear us in the Twitter space, they assume that we're in completely different bodies. So the retina doesn't change though.

So there's that fingerprints don't change, Right. It's hard to change your fingerprints. But yeah, that's an interesting point.

Yeah.

But anyways, the big companies have the patents and have the research done on that. And that's the problem. They have the patents, right? If you, if you want to compete with Apple on that, you have to go at, at Apple and figure out how to do the same thing without messing up with their path patents. Because they'll come after you, right? I mean, when I worked at Microsoft, they had 803 lawyers. They had more lawyers back then than Facebook had employees.

Right.

So they protect their patent portfolio. Pretty hard.

Robert, what do you think about these Web three kind of versus I guess the latest terminology I've heard be adopted is a verse. It was virtual world, but that's what the kids are calling these days versus web three verses that have an inherent, almost economic structure that's on chain or based on processes. Yeah, okay, Yeah, I love that, I love that.

Because, you know, let's say we had a real metaverse, right? And there's a thousand things to go and do. And it's a big, big thing, right? It's like somnium space times 60, right? Something like that, Right. Insomnia space alone is pretty, pretty big. It takes an hour to walk across the whole thing, right. It's in terms of human scale, it's a big. It's a big virtual land. Having that your own economic activity for that, it makes a load of sense.

Because.

There'S going to be all sorts of gifting and buying. You know, if you have a. A weapon store in your little metaverse and I want to play your game, I got to come over your store and buy some things, right?

Jay always asked the right question. I was in a space with him the other day and that just. I heard it takes 40 minutes to walk across the whole corticopias world that they were talking about. And yeah, that's the right. It's like people are going to give rides, people are going to sell stuff along the way. People are going to have these concerts, comedy church, right.

It's infinite. People come up with weird shit to do on their little plot of land inside one of these virtual things, right?

Yeah, it's been interesting because what me and subcritical do is we do a podcast and we go to different metaverse platforms and we explore. We call it Mapping the Metaverse. But I feel like there's a lot of products that we're waiting on that will be launching the current conversation. I think and challenge is though, is a lot of these verses want to have an interoperable future with each other. And it really comes down to, I think something that you've mentioned before, Robert, in a different context, but the same like ultimate kind of metaverse feel to it, which is search, being able to search different worlds from the same account or like you can basically restructure search. And I think that's actually going to happen. Do you have any ideas on when we think of different virtual worlds, there's so many challenges to make them interoperable, different game engines. But how do you think this plays out? Because we have the web kind of two companies building these verses. Do you think they'll be truly interoperable with these other metaverse platforms? Or do you think we're going to just be siloed here for a bit until I don't even know? Mad it could take a while. These challenges pretty interesting.

I don't have an answer to that. I know a new series coming and if a new series coming. So is knew everything else is coming. The voice Industry, the AI industry is about to do some really crazy things, real conversational things, right? I don't know how that's all going to work out.

I.

My gut feel is one of these large language models is just going to ingest all the met all the verses, right? And then build a search that way. But I don't know who, I don't know who's where that's going to. I don't know who's going to win at that.

I don't know.

There's too many unknowns.

We just.

Costco see that playing out, right?

Great value Metaverse.

I mean we haven't even started. We need to get to the place where we all can agree on what a voxel is, right? And where, where a voxel, you know. You know, how do we. Let's back up. Unity showed me a prototype of something coming next year where they cut my kitchen in half and the other half is your kitchen and you're over in your kitchen. I see you, you see me, and then you can walk from your kitchen into my kitchen and play a blackjack game with me or something like that, or a ping pong game. Pretty cool stuff. But to do that we had to agree on a system that would let me, you know, have your kitchen as half of the room and my kitchen as the other half of the room we had. There has to be an agreement. Agreement on what? A voxel is a volumetric pixel that's around you and this industry hasn't gotten to that place yet, right? Probably have to ask. Working on it. Way smarter than I am that are working on it. So we'll see how it plays. That all has to play out, right?

One of the things that's happening in the Blotchy community that I've enjoyed watching and paying attention to, Robert, is, is the asset conversation. So like when you have a, when you have a 3D modeled unity, like okay, let's back up. When you have an nft, right? That if you go into a metaverse, it recognizes it and it's basically like a key to populate a 3D modeled Lamborghini, but it's only populating it in Unity, right? So like how do you make the NFT when it goes to different platforms? So now this asset, that is a Lamborghini in one metaverse or one verse. How can you make it so that way it has utility in a Voxel, in an Unreal Engine based and a Unity based and all the different nuances and style guides that are brewing from these verses. It's been really fun to just kind of watch from a 30,000 foot view of how they're going to do asset interoperability. Interoperability. It's really interesting.

It's crazy. And it's about to go crazier. I watched the WWDC with the founder of Think Reality. S Y, N, C R E A T Y. Something like that. Sync. I'm sorry, I spelled it wrong. Sync Reality. He scanned my living room with an iPhone. Then he ran a fashion show in my living room where the fashion models were walking on my floor by my couch and I could stop the show at any time and buy the clothes off of the model and put them into a shopping bag. Is that the metaverse? Yes, but it's in my house. So it gets met, it gets messy. This world is going to get weird.

Yeah. Once we get consumer grade ar, it's going to be dental coil everywhere. And I am living through that.

I mean, I have a. I have an augmented reality dinosaur in my backyard thanks to Niantech, a big AI AR company that built the Pokemon Go. Right. But that thing can't go into other. It can't go into my fashion show. The fashion show doesn't know about the dinosaur. The dinosaur doesn't know about the fashion show. Right. So we have a lot of work to do to make. It's a lot of dinosaur to the fashion show.

On the sip on the subject of interoperability, that was something that SingularityNET is working on. Right. Because they're decentralized AI. They need somewhere for, you know, the AI to live on. And that's why Alex is one of the developers working on SDKs, APIs, things like that.

Yeah.

So I mean, it's. The future is going to be multi chain. If we're going to be decentralized, we have to have a way for these things to actually communicate with each other.

Yeah.

I don't know how long it's going to take, but it's like. I mean, it's. Look, when you have access to tools like this, it only makes sense to like have APIs and connect to those APIs so you can take advantage of all of the resources and services that everybody else has made.

Yeah. And. All right, so Apple's a walled garden, Right. So I call it a temple. If you go to Jerusalem and visit where Paul the Baptist grew up, the little village where he grew up, the middle of it is a temple. It's not the church. The church is up on the hill. It's owned by the church. Right. So there's a. The church owned the town, right? But the, the temple had a security guard at the door and inside you paid your taxes, you bought your groceries, you got your entertainment. On Friday night, you would go see a little play, you got, you did all your shopping there. It had a bunch of retail stores in there, right? Blah, blah, blah. That's Apple. Now, what happens when you leave the temple? What's across the street? That's the metaverse, right? And the metaverse just has to get so attractive that we leave the Apple thing and go over to go to the metaverse thing, right? To the version that's easy.

We just have to open a strip club and everybody will go there.

There we go. By the way, stable diffusion does art, right. There's a Reddit group called Unstable Diffusion that does porn from an AI.

I'm gonna have to join that subreddit. Thank you.

So there you go. The porn industry's already chosen. It's like, oh, that would be. We can ingest porn and then hallucinate porn to people. Oh, that's interesting. Let's do that. Yeah.

And then the other nuance that I've noticed too from companies like even like Virtua, which is like a pretty big aspiring. Well, I guess not even aspiring. They're a pretty big player I think in the Web three metaverse conversation. And they have some pretty big players on their team, like Gary Bracey, who was the first person to take a movie, which was Robocop, turn it into a game when he was working for Ocean, and sell a million units of that game. He's the co founder of Virtua. They are doing a lot of things off chain, but having a UI that supports basic collectibles on the blockchain and in a cross chain way where they have things on Ethereum and Cardano. But what's interesting is when it comes to things like resources, which can provide a lot of microtransactions on the blockchain, they have this really off chain angle. And I think we're going to see this kind of web 2.5 version of metaverse. Companies doing some stuff on chain, but really labeling NFTs as digital collectibles and kind of not trying to put NFT or blockchain the consumer's face and really just try to stay away from those terminologies. Making the UI on their platforms have a wallet integrated that they never even know that it's actually a crypto or blockchain wallet. So I am seeing that actually a lot too, which is Kind of interesting, I think. Any thoughts on that?

No, I'm sorry, I was just paying attention to two things and I missed a question. Can you restate it?

So I. Yeah, no, absolutely. So it's an interesting. I've noticed this interesting nuance where we're seeing like some of these players, like there's a Web three kind of Metaverse, a bigger Metaverse player, in my opinion, Virtua.

And.

And they're doing. They're doing things very interestingly because they are making like the UI of their platform in a way that users won't even really know necessarily that they're interacting with the blockchain or NFTs. And then they're labeling instead of NFT, they're calling things digital collectibles. And then they're pursuing the route of AR by having these like fan caves to hold your digital collectibles in so you can show people on your phone, similar to Eevee. And it's kind of, to me, Jadu.

Is doing something like that too. There's a bunch of little companies, things that are doing that are trying to do that. Yeah.

So I guess the question is like with their. Because you can go into the game and if you own a land plot, you can generate resources, but these resources, they're keeping off chain on purpose for now. And I think this is like the Web 2.5 kind of companies that are kind of being hesitant to put everything on chain and box themselves in and also staying away from these terminologies to go for like mainstream consumers.

So.

So I am noticing that too, Robert. It's kind of interesting, the spectrum of. How much blockchain do you want?

Yeah, I think there'll be a variety of approaches for a while and we'll see what the market attracts to.

Right.

I can't pick the winners before the winners happen.

Yeah, I think that's like a hard.

Thing to just say. Like these are going to be the winners. Especially like when like there's standards coming together here on like crypto and then there's standards like universally like what Nvidia with their whole metaverse thing, trying to use like USD to kind of make a programming. Well, pretty much an HTML for metaverses. Right. So we don't bring in those standards on our side. Can you really bring people over or back and forth?

Yeah, I like the obfuscation of the technology. Right. And talking about digital collectibles, that. That's something that, that a lot of people would be attracted to.

Right.

I want a collection, like I have a collection of Hummel bells in the real world. Right. Would I have a collection of digital Hummel bells? Possibly.

Right.

Do I need to think of those as NFTs? No. Right, yeah.

When it comes to the terminology, most people when they hear nft, they just think board Ape Yacht Club. But like if, if you introduce something like, hey, here's a digital sneaker made by Nike, then you know, the sneaker heads are like, oh yeah, here's, here's like $300 right here, right now. And I just wanted to bring up this. The unstable diffusion subreddit has been banned, so don't bother looking it up.

Well, it's okay.

You can still find that stuff on Twitter. I follow Twitter account that specifically.

Well, I think about having digital collection collectibles.

Right.

And like you said, being able to have a store or even just a set of code that's secured by this blockchain that allows you to earn royalties from that, have ownership over that, loan it, experience it, let others experience it, loan it to a museum. Yeah. I think that's where, like I said, where I'm so focused on and would be this sort of, this collision. Right. How that collision's turned into collaboration.

Yeah.

The most attractive thing to me about the NFTs are the gaming use cases. If I were to buy costumes and upgrades for characters and RPGs, they're gone as soon as the server support for that game leaves. But as an NFT stored on ipfs, as long as I have access to that nft, I can still have those assets in game.

Yeah.

Or even transfer them over to a new game in the future.

Bingo. Right. Do you have an asset built that you can go from verse to verse to verse and you have the same assets with you? Right. That or a subset of assets that works in each world.

Right.

Like one world that allows guns, one world doesn't.

Right.

It's gonna be interesting once we see, you know, product tie ins and stuff like, you know, to mention Nike again, like, oh, you can wear our shoes in all of these metaverses in your Final Fantasy 44 or whatever it is.

There's a lot of change there for people.

You know.

A lot of this is, is riffing, right. So if Apple shows off something, everybody gets excited by it. The, the crypto community is all gonna have a position on it, right. And, and riff on it. Right. Say, oh, we do the same thing, but we do it better over here. We don't charge you 30 over here. If you come out again, if you leave the temple and come over the hinterlands over to the Versus. Right. You can do fun things and not have to pay Apple 30.

Right.

Because you're on a web browser or a wasm. Right.

I think a lot of these companies are going to be moving to blockchain anyway simply because, like, the secondary sales, the provenance that blockchain offers allows you royalties. And it's like, why wouldn't you want to be part of that? I mean, I keep mentioning sneakers, but dude, everybody who's into sneakers knows that there's a huge, huge secondary sales market for that shit. And can you imagine if Nike actually had. Yeah, if Nike actually had like, royalties on those sneakers. I mean, that's why they partnered with like, Artifact.

Right.

And wait, wait, they're. The bleeding edge is tying the physical sneaker with the digital scarcity of nft. Wait until that really gets explored better.

Right?

Yeah.

And wait till you actually.

Wait till all your family members has glasses on. Like five years from now or ten. It's certainly ten years from now. And you're walking around with these sneakers and. And they can see the augmented reality thing you bought, you know, with the sneakers, the nft, Right. Boom. You're cool.

I'm just waiting for a mixed reality.

Yu Gi.

Oh, and Pokemon, the really interesting. I was just talking to one of these augmented reality companies, AI companies. They said that their user base really likes swapping, like swapping faces. You can, you know, if, if you're in swapping sneakers. So you might need to have a, a collection of hundreds of sneakers and they'll be changed based on what you're doing.

Right.

Or what you're feeling. I mean, the new meta quest is what has cameras looking at your face for your emotion. So if you're feeling strong emotion or something like that, all of a sudden your sneakers are changing.

Right.

Mood changing sneakers. Like, okay, all right, I can dig that.

Yeah.

I just got that Quest Pro and I'm worried that when I'm talking like crap to Jay and like, he makes a remark back and I'm upset now, he'll actually be able to see that I'm upset.

Now. You'll just have to put on that Fox mask in the metaverse, nobody can see. True.

Yeah. No, that's absolutely a fact. Do you know what else is interesting, though? Because there's one other nuance I've been noticing from these Web3 platforms, and that's something like a pavia, where some of these platforms seem to be keeping a lot of their development in house and releasing kits, whereas some of These platforms like Pavia have been onboarding all of the creative talent that's within the Cardano ecosystem that can do 3D modeling working alongside their capabilities. Send us what you can do and then we'll create a style of guide based around that. That's what they did. And then they verified these 3D asset builders and now there's a little economy going on of people that own land in Pavia, like the Cardano Metaverse and the 3D asset builders that are verified. Because if you own a plot, you can go down the list on discord, let's just say talk to one of these 3D asset builders and construct some sort of agreement for them to build you something. They've been verified by Pavia. They have a track record already and it's just an interesting way of doing it. Now I'm sure they're also going to be developing their own APIs for like maybe mini games that plot owners can easily access. But it's just really a big spectrum going on here in these web three metaverses of how they're actually building out. So I do think that that's because they have to be kind of crafty and creative. They don't have the 10 billion that is being flooded into something like obviously Meta in their hardware. But also Horizon Worlds is Meta's main product. So I think the capital that flows into that product is way bigger than the capital that might be able to be crowdfunded or sourced from potentially VCs. So it is interesting that nuance of like, hey, join us, build with us, be part of our economy from day one. It's an interesting nuance. Any thoughts on that, guys?

I think the community is the strength here and that's what's going to lead you to really interesting things compared to the big companies. Because the big companies don't have this kind of love, this kind of co working and this kind of iterative speed. Innovation. Speed, Right. If you work at Apple, you have 100 meetings just to decide whether to change the font on something.

Right?

Yeah, that was one of the things that Alex mentioned to us. He was a former, he was working on Google's media pipe. You know, he'd worked for these Fang companies and the amount of red tape and you know, Google has a reputation of being like a revolving door. Like you get tenure at Google. Like when he was working at MediaPipe, he was looking forward to integrating the hand motions that you know, user input into Google Cardboard.

Right.

So turning that from a VR set, a passive VR set to Something that you could interact with. And the week that he joined, the week that he joined Google, they shut down cardboard.

Yeah.

And that was just, you know, that's how they operate the project leaders there. Like, okay, they start a project, they end it when like it starts actually getting hard and then they start a new project and they keep their high paying positions. That way when you come, when you come to something like a blockchain, decentralized communities, it's like there's, you don't have that kind of red tape typically.

Yeah, I worked at Microsoft and Rackspace. Big companies have advantages and they certainly have disadvantages. And the speed which they can react to market demands is very hard.

Yeah, startups, startups and like organizations like, you know, New Daos are basically kind of like startups.

Right.

They have agility that these other companies don't. I was wondering, you know, I know within like the video game industry there's a lot of pushback vitriol against Web3. Not only within the player base, but the developers themselves too. They don't know much about blockchain. I imagine that's different with anybody working in AR VR though, or what sorts of misgivings have you encountered within your industry?

I'm curious, Robert.

Yeah, there's always, there's always resistance.

Let me. Hey, Robert, hold on before you answer that, because I just saw a ton of people come up. I let a few people up. So raise your hand and I promise our good friend Jay will get to you or Robert. Feel free to call on anybody, but go ahead. Thanks a lot.

Yeah, you know the community better, so I'll let you call them up. Can you hear me, by the way? I got in my Tesla to escape some noise.

Yep, I got you. Yeah, I let a couple up. So go ahead guys, put your hands up and while Robert answers, I'll make sure I get the order right.

Yeah. What?

Do you mind? Yeah, you might have missed or getting in your Tesla, I don't know.

Yeah, you heard there was. I have somebody trying to do some backing.

Had to run.

Yeah, I don't know where. I, I don't know that I have any insight on the question.

No, there's no.

Oh, so there's no pushback against like blockchain?

I mean you can see that on Twitter and elsewhere.

I saw like when you announced that you were gonna be part of this space, everybody was like, oh no, they got you, you joined the call.

Oh my God, really? Did that actually happen? Sorry, Robert.

There's certainly tribalism. It's fear of Change. I've studied, you know, I've been the first, like I was the 79th user of Instagram. I was the first one to say flip for it. Yeah, blah blah, blah. And at each one of these things, they're always resisted. Always. And the resistance is interesting to study, but isn't. I would not over index on the resistance. It doesn't. It's not what matters. Right?

Yeah, it's scary, right? There's a lot of scams at first, a lot of illegitimate venture that people get, you know, rope.

Yeah. And the prices are. I mean I haven't bought an NFT yet because the price, Most of the NFTs are out of my price range. I can't afford, you know, $100,000 for a board ape. Right.

Oh, you're gonna love Hosky on Cardano.

There we go.

And I think that's. This is a. This is offer. This next year is an opportunity for everybody to change and we'll see what the market attracts to. All right, some something. A lot of things will fail, but some things will be like billion dollar company things all dows all of a sudden, right?

Yep. Nope. 100. The market is funny that way. Dr. Ooh, Dr. Sinister. This could go either way. But I know you have a question.

Hi. Thank you. I just wanted to speak about the interoperability of NFTs. Now that we have so many AI systems that can translate images, they are getting so good that you'll be able to really easily change something from the Unity to Unreal Engine because that data which they have is really similar. The most models that people are producing now, they all have the same outputs in the same format as. So the we have now the phase where everything looks differently, but the new techniques, mostly based on AI, they all give you nearly the same outputs and they will be joined. But there's one even better thing with that. If they are made by AI or remade by AI, you can adjust your NFT to the space into which you are going. So if you bought a punk, which is pixel art, but you're going to a fully 3D metaverse, there is no problem with changing your panky to fully 3D version in a little bit cyberpunk vibe. If that's the season in the metaverse.

Okay, okay. But can I just highlight one other issue though that that doesn't solve. Think about this. Because if you have a metaverse where a car, right, is an asset that can also fly, but you don't want that car to be able to fly in a different metaverse. Then there needs to be a lot of communication between these platforms to make sure that it doesn't. The asset doesn't act in a way it's not supposed to. But I do agree with what you just said, which is we are making massive strides. It's just that next part is the part that I think is probably the real work and the nitty gritty work. Any thoughts?

I'm not sure of that, because the way in which we are working now that we are using unity to create the asset and write all of the functions that it has. If you're creating an asset by an AI algorithm, so you have the data describing what is it, what does it do, what's the history of the asset, things like that. So something that's data from a large language model, or probably large multimodal model, which knows the text and the visualization and 3D version and few other things, then if everything is in this new kind, represented in this new kind of data, it's much easier to match the systems because. Because they are all in the latent form. So the idea form, let's say. And for the language model, it's relatively easy to. To know that in this world you cannot fly with cars, because that's a medieval world. So that's impossible. They just asked themselves a question, answered it, no, this car cannot fly. So, okay, it will be much easier, just not with the data that we are using currently.

Would there be a version of the car that you have, and would the artist determine that, or would AI be able to train the rough idea, sketch of the vehicle you have, and something appropriate for the time period and setting?

I'm saying about what could be done in two or three years when artists will move to the systems which work with the AI. So for the moment, we don't have that. We are just seeing how this new type of content is created and when artists will move to the Photoshop plugins for AI systems, for image generation, for language models, things like that, you will have just much richer data for your assets. And if artists didn't represent this data, it's really easy even now to ask the AI to speak to you about the image that you have.

Yeah.

To describe it, to make a history for it and things like that. So, yeah, it would be fun.

I mean, I'm sitting in my Tesla, right, And it sees garbage cans in the street and knows that it's a garbage can, right? And it sees a truck and it says. And it shows me a truck on this, on the screen, right? So it knows a little bit about the categorization of things. And, you know, we work that way too, right? A Tesla on Earth behaves one way. A Tesla in space. There's actually a Tesl in space flying through Tesla, right? SpaceX through a. A roadster out there, right? So it behaves differently because there's no gravity there and there's no air there. And then you put a Tesla on a. On a moon. On the moon, it behaves differently because the physics models, the way gravity works is different there than it is on Earth.

So.

The, the system that's keeping track of all of the players and all of the objects and all of the things can apply rules like that, right. Say, hey, we have Earth gravity in this world and across the street they have moon gravity. Right.

One of the most interesting talks about blockchain technology from Chris Dixon from, I think two years ago was about that the blockchain will be mostly not for people, but for AI systems which will cooperate with themselves and then exchange the data. So you will just have the layer which you don't see, which talks with itself, ask these kinds of questions, finds the data that you didn't even know that they exist and make this kind of choices. It's much easier with blockchain than with other types of technology because there are many more incentives to exchange the information and make it richer.

That makes sense. That's such a fun world to think about. Yeah. And watch the developers build because I, I don't have developer skills. That's, you know, I wish I did, but I don't. So I want. I'm always the observer, you know, and the pollinator talking to those people and hooking them together, you know, say, oh, you should know about the contact lens guy. Meet him. I wrote about it, right. And try to put it all together because I see patterns across. I see. I mean, you should see my Twitter. I have Tweetdeck running with 70 different columns. I have one column just of the world news brands, one column of just the investors, one column just of people in the AI space. One column of just people doing computer vision.

Right?

So I can watch the whole world just go by just by watching screens.

Pretty crazy.

So doing that, I get to see things before other people do. I'm all usually the first one to retweet things, right? Like. Like AI papers. Because I see them. The AI is showing me stuff now that it doesn't show my wife, right. Because I'm following 26, 000 AI researcher. She's fine.

Yeah, you you FOMO into your own spaces is what I'm hearing. That sounds pretty. It's a pretty common occurrence. Occurrence when you first. Anybody who first gets into Web three, they're like, oh, I need to absorb as many, as many spaces, as much information as possible. Going to follow all these accounts and then it's like you don't sleep. You get maybe three hours of sleep at most.

Yeah, Yep, it's a problem. All my lists, by the way, are in the public domain, so you can see them and you can build your own tweet deck just off my Twitter list, if you want. Right. If you want to watch all the investors in the world, add that as a column in tweetdeck. Tweet. Most people don't know, know that Twitter is the only real time information service. And tweetdeck shows you the real time. You don't have to refresh the page. It just, it's like the Matrix, you know, a new tweet comes in on a column and it just shows up and it pushes everybody else down. Right.

Yeah, that is actually true.

Right.

It'll be interesting to see what Elon does with Twitter, particularly when they bring AI from, you know, their AI people from Tesla and start applying the AIs to Twitter. It's going to see some patterns that nobody, nobody can. I can't watch 200 million people. I can't even watch the 100,000 people I would already follow.

I just think the access to Twitter for Tesla is an interesting thing. But, Robert, we are winding down, I believe. So I just wanted to make sure that we gave you a final kind of chance to give a. If you can't. If you can, man. Like, I know that you've given a lot of thoughts here, but you can muster up one more quality, like one to two minute, kind of like rant for us. Because I love your rants and I love how you tie things together. But what can we expect and what should we kind of pay more attention to, do you think? The blockchain space? Because we're really in the nitty gritty of what we're doing. But what do you think that we should really pay attention to? Except because I feel like you're going to say Apple. And maybe if you want to say Apple, feel free to say Apple again. But if there's anything else.

I think.

We'Re about, we're in the middle, in.

The early stages of a very rapid change. And so just keep your curiosity. Don't get religious. Be, be agile. Be able to take a Weekend and rewrite everything because something new just came along. Right. I. I think. And I think build on the strengths of what you. What the. The crypto community has, which is community. So keep. Keep running. Next year, the next 18 months is going to be sick.

Oh, that's my man. I. Yeah, no, you know me. I can rant. I'm just happy. Yeah, I'm. I'm just happy this happened. I really appreciate Illusion, the ADOT contributor who set this up. He's got. He's got quite a friends list, so. And I appreciate you, Jay and Robert, for taking the time.

Thanks. It was fun. I learned a lot. And.

And I.

As this community kicks stuff out, give me a call. My phone number's on. On Google, so you can call me.

Will do, man. I said, I think. I think I will tweet at you when something reminds me of this conversation.

Absolutely. Because it. I can't see it all coming. So, you know, if you see something new, like this conference thing we talked about, that sounds sick. I want to see that in the worst way.

No, absolutely. This is. This is why it's so cool that you're here, man. Because it's just bridging these worlds and there's a collision coming, and it's good to do this stuff now, lay the groundwork, get tapped in with Adao and get tapped in with Robert. And yeah, just everybody that came out, thanks so much. And definitely follow Robert. He's got a lot of great information. And definitely follow the eight Hour crew, because I think that they're doing a lot of cool stuff. Actually. They're doing a lot of. A lot of cool stuff. Shout out to Riley, their lead, their tech lead. He's an amazing. I call him an engineer, but he's just an amazing Plutus and Haskell expert. And. Yeah, and DZ codes too, the whole Adal organization. So thanks. Thanks for having me. Tct.

Yeah, thank you, man. And same to you, Robert.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. This was awesome. Great way to start Saturday.

Well.

It.