Spatial Computing Catalyst #3: Spatial Computing Startup Helps Autism Therapists

So it's real honor to be here to talk to you.

It's an honor to be here with you.

A lot of people ask me why. Why am I so into spatial computing? You know, VR, AR, all the other things that are coming with it. And I always talk about my son Milan, who's 11 and is autistic and heavily autistic. He's not like Bram Cohen, who invented Victor, who's Asperger's autistic, right? He has real significant problems in communicating with people. He has trouble even crossing the street, paying attention, and he's going to have significant problems in his life. But he loves looking at screens, right? And he's very adept at navigating YouTube. He had an iPad when he was a year and a half old, right. And he figured out how to navigate YouTube through the related video. So he's really adept at technology. And, you know, going around the R and D labs around the world, you realize, oh, by the time he's out of high school, he's gonna have something that looks like these, right? That's gonna give him a visual field in front of him, and that's gonna have a 3D sensor, and probably a lot of 3D sensor. And it's gonna really help him to live. And you guys are on the forefront of that. Maybe you should tell me, you know.

Wow, you're counting your.

Well, who are you.

To be told that we're at the forefront of this? That's a lot of weight. That's a lot of pressure. But thank you, because that's. That's.

I think you're in the Church of VR. I mean, we're here at Boost vc, which is like the. I call it the spiritual center of the VR industry.

It's the cathedral.

Yeah.

So, yeah. So my name is Andy Chavez and myself, along with the other co founders, Andrea Villegas, she is our researcher at the University of Florida in Behaver. Now, Amy Escalante, she's our practitioner. She's been practicing behavior analysis for Geez already a little over 10 years, so providing direct therapy to kids, teenagers and adults with autism and developmental disabilities. And Chris, who leads our tech team and sort of our human resources. We're based out of Gainesville, Florida, at the UF Innovation Hub. But right now we're in beautiful San Mateo, the Peninsula, and we've outdated. I don't think we've ever been happier to be in the Church of VR because there are so many individuals such as yourself and others, that we can speak fluently about virtual reality. Basically. 24, 7. So it's great. So we do virtual reality using evidence based curriculums found in aba. ABA is Applied Behavior Analysis. And you might be familiar with this, Robert. ABA is probably one of the most sought after therapies for autism along with occupational and speech language pathology. So essentially an ABA therapist or behavior therapist will see a child anywhere between 10 and 40 hours a week.

Most people don't know what ABA is. People who have an autistic child in their lives know what it is. But explain what ABA is. When you're working with a child, what kinds of things is a therapist doing to try to get them to have better behavior or understand how to do a task, how to interact, how to look at somebody? Right. For autistic kids, it's really hard to learn to look in somebody's eyes. It's really hard to pay attention to social cues.

So that's an excellent question. So essentially Applied Behavior analysis or ABA branches from behavioral science as we know it, from BS Scare, right? And then even further back from that, we're talking about Evon, Papillon, right? Classical operant conditioning, ringing of the bell, the dog salivates, you know, the condition to think that it's going to get food. So that sort of line of thought has evolved into a heavily successful and evidence based curriculum for teaching. Right? Not just autism, but if you look at this, all these different subsections of behavior, right? You have behavioral economics, you have obm, organizational behavioral management, which is more so on the corporate level. Right. This all stems from that sort of branch of psychology, right? How does that look like? Right. In our particular case? So essentially it's if you were to drop into a session, it's going to look a lot like playtime, quite frankly. Like you'll see a therapist just playing around with the child. But really what they're doing is that they could be doing a preference assessment, right? So what does the child respond to better? Right. Do they like squishy toys or do they want the car? And if it's the car, then do they like the big car, the small car? If it's the big car, is it the big car, the big blue car or the big red car? A lot of preference assessments to find out what their motivators are, right? You grab a motivator and then you start shaping behaviors, right? So let's say you brought up the example of like looking at people, right? Well, what is one component of looking at someone but moving your head in their direction, Right? So we might shape that behavior by maybe in Real life, we would probably do something like put some goofy glasses on a therapist. Right? And that's like, well, look at the glasses. Now you're looking at the glasses. And then we slowly fade out the groovy glasses. Where no longer are they looking for the goofy glasses, they're looking for your face. Yeah, right. And then you can get smaller and more, more granular in your behavior in terms of like, how about vision? What are they looking at? Yeah, right.

So and in the Snapchat world, we're always going to have goofy glasses on, right.

We're always going to have free classes.

So which, which will really help these kids to pay attention because they, my, my son loves looking at screens and looking at virtual things. Right. Be very focused on a cartoon or something like that. But looking in somebody's eyes as a human is really tough. But if I put a cartoon on top of you, he's very willing to look at that. So you can just start to see how using VR or AR is going to radically change this field over the next years. Few.

I'll take it a step further than that too. And I would have to look at these studies and probably cite them for you. But there are lines of thought revolving around, well, is it that they can't look at you or is it that physiologically it hurts to look at people? Yeah, right. Like if I'm looking at you right now, I just can't, like, I can't stand it. Right. Then what do we do about that? Right. I think that's where AR brings up an interesting component where if that's the case, can we mask the public faces with like, I don't know, like some sort of crazy mask? Right. It's also about understanding where they're at. Right. And understanding what they want. Right. So it's a two way street here because ultimately we want them to have agency in their lives. Right. In every aspect. But there are some components of that that you must know, like crossing the street, like a fire drill, like stranger danger. Those are very basic components of life that no matter what you have, Right. You must know, right. These are survival skills. And then we can go down the gamut of, well, these are basic and emergency skills. Right. But then there are independent skills, riding an elevator, going up an escalator, going to a dental office. Right. And then there's leisure skills where it comes to play, where it's that interesting transitionary period between being a teenager and being an adult. Right. That transition, that's a huge issue within the field. Now what happens There, because all of a sudden, depending on what type of insurance you have, hours can go down. Right. So if you have a child that is may not severely autistic, you just.

Brought up something really interesting. When you have one of these children, it's very expensive. It costs $2,500 just to take the test to learn he was autistic.

Wow. Right.

Because we had a really great psychologist worked with him for a few hours and that's what she charges. She's one of the best in Silicon Valley. There's a lot of autistic kids here. What if you don't have that money, you don't find out and then the school system screws you and it gets worse and worse and worse. Right. I've been gifted with the ability to pay that kind of fee for a while, but I see other parents really struggle with getting the psychological help, getting the therapist, getting the training. He goes to a speech therapist every week. Right. And she's worked magic for him. When we first learned he was going to be autistic or he was autistic, the doctor said you might never talk to him. He's very severe. Right. And now he's talking because of the speech therapist. But that costs money. And I think with your company, if you get to where you're going, you're going to be able to be much cheaper for therapy. Right. And in a few years we're gonna have glasses on all the time. So you're gonna start moving into a field where you can give this therapy all day long. Right. And start assisting the person or living. That might be 1500 bucks for an apple glasses or Facebook glasses or magic paper, whatever happens.

And I.

But it's a lot cheaper than paying, you know, all the therapists all day long. It's cheaper for the insurance company. So the insurance company might come on.

Exactly.

And it's cheaper for the parents because. And the kids are probably going to take to it much faster because they're going to figure out they can watch YouTube or play Fortnite or play Minecraft in the glasses really nicely. Much better than on a flat display. And then all of a sudden, oh yeah, I can also use all this other stuff to help me live and help me get better at school and help me get better with my friends and stuff like that.

We're collectively democratizing therapy and facilitating it's ubiquitousness in a field that needs it desperately.

I bet even if a human's involved and we, we might go controversial and you know, how many years is it I Love controvers before there's no human therapy involved. Right. Before, you know, I mean, Magic Leap is already showing us a virtual character called Micah. And Micah, in five years will be sitting in this room with me if I'm wearing a Magic Leap glass. And I'm sure Apple will do one. There's others coming, Lucy. But these things look like humans. They will eventually talk like humans. They'll actually interact with us like humans. I mean, Micah at the game developer conference was playing games with a human, right? Wearing glasses. So soon my son might have a therapist who isn't a human at all. Ten years from now, five years from.

Now, I don't know. But it's coming.

And even if there is a human involved, Micah might realize she's in over her head on a certain thing and call up a remote therapist who. A remote human jumps in and says. And adds a little human touch.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Oh, that's crazy.

And we are in full agreement with each other, right? And it is a scary thought sometimes to think that the machine will be providing therapy.

But, hey, my car drove to here. I live streamed it on Twitter, and one of the people said, that's terrifying to watch. And I. It's not terrifying to me because I've used it for 10,000, 20,000 miles. Right? But it was terrifying the first couple hundred miles because it's like a machine is driving me and I'm putting my trust in my life, in its hands, Right? And same thing here. It's terrifying to think about some of these new technologies that are coming along and what we're going to give to the AI and the sky, Micah, you know, which is an AI and it's polygons. It's terrifying of people, right?

But you look at it historically, though, and industrialization and just technology in general has allowed us to surpass. Surpass the shortcomings that the human body has. Right? Like think about travel. Think about how we traveled 200 years ago. Think about how we traveled 100 years ago. Think about how we Traveled 50 years ago. Right? I can be in Japan in 12 hours. You know how long it would take me 200 years ago?

Yeah, Weeks.

Weeks. Weeks. Insane. But now we hop on planes and we don't even think about it. I mean, some people are so scared, but we just hop on planes, right?

No, I know that humans are going to change their behavior. Behavior with autonomous cars, with glasses, Right. But there's a lot of fear today. I hear it over and over when I talk about these technologies or live stream or Whatever. So what's. We can't really show what it does, right?

No, it's.

It's hard to see with these little cameras inside the VR headset. I guess we can edit in a video.

Yeah, I can definitely show you some video of. We had a 12 year old boy try it. I think there's the same story that we mentioned on Ken's show. So we have 12. We have a 12 year old boy try it. We weren't going at it from a clinical perspective. Right. We weren't going from a research perspective. We just wanted to see if he needs it. Right. Can he navigate? Look left and right. Can we take it further? Can he pick his own conditions? And we actually use this headset, the Oculus Go, which is a $200 headset.

And only has three degrees of freedom, which means you can only move your head.

Exactly.

You can't move your body. We're chomping at the bits for Oculus Quest.

Yes, everybody is chomping at the bits. Everybody. And I'm sure that'll present some new hurdles to overcome. That's okay. So I do have video of this I can share with you. And we were just checking. We were checking, thinking, look left, look right, blah, blah, blah. To our surprise, he was able to do all those things. A little bit of physical prompting at first due to the controller, but after about the third or fourth correction on physical prompting of the controller, he was able to get it. And he was in it for about 15 minutes, 14 minutes. Way longer than we had expected. Way longer than we had expected. And he did all three simulations, Crossing Street, Stranger Danger, and Fire Always. And it was great. It was great. He was able to do everything right. Now, keeping in mind it wasn't his first time seeing it because he had first saw. He first saw it in 2D.

Yeah.

And because that's also one thing that we're like. Our vision is to help children with autism using technology. Right. So very early on, about a year ago, we were having a much different conversation when this had come out. The autoscope. Right. Because we were. We couldn't convince ourselves and we couldn't convince anyone else to purchase a Vibe or a Rift to try this out. There's just no word that's not. That's. This is a company at the end of the day, and we have to make revenue. Right. And we're not going to just therapist buy a 1200 machine plus the headset and go do it and the whole.

Set up the sensors and, you know.

No one's Going to do that.

No one's going to do.

No one's going to do that. And what I love about where it's going is that it really has to just become plug and play.

Yeah.

Like it has to pass the grandma test. Yeah. Grandma has to be able to open it up.

You can even lock your app to be the main app when you turn it on, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. That's really cool.

Yeah. So that in and of itself lowers the hurdles to want. Right. People just want to get something, take it out of the box, put it on, go. So a year ago, we were actually deploying our WebGL. Very simple. You have a laptop, you have a tablet, just go work it out. So we actually tried it out like that, too. So we tried on two forms, Right. Do we need virtual reality or do we not need it? Right. And I think the general consensus to us is you will need it. It enhances the experience, obviously, it's gonna have that immersion quality to it. You're gonna have a sense of presence. Right. You'll be able to move and manipulate objects versus a 2D screen or versus the way that it's being taught now, specifically these skill sets. It's either story time, videos, or taking them out to the actual environment. You can't control for that. That's a huge liability. That's a liability for the child to solve or solve. The parent. The therapist people driving. No, no. Like, you can never do that. Right. I mean, it's done. But the resources that need to go into that, I mean, we've interviewed therapists who have had to shut down streets, Right. And there's permitting for that. Right. And then what are you gonna do with the driving? You need someone driving. You need actors, Right. You need people to come in and act as strangers. Right. It's just so intensive. So intensive. But VR, I mean, I don't have to talk about VR with you guys. You guys, your audience and you, you know. You know, a lot of people in.

My audience haven't tried it yet, right?

Really?

Oh, yeah, yeah. You would think that they have, but no, most people haven't. Even in Silicon Valley, right. When I go to a party and pull it out, most people haven't tried it. And certainly most people haven't used it for more than 10 minutes unless they have it. Right. If they're inside the bubble, you know. Yeah. And they've already bought in. Yeah. But most people have it and they get little tastes of it. If they have. Right. How long have they had it? Not very long.

Well, I Think something like this, you know, going back to the Oculus Go, singing it's phrases.

Yeah.

This makes it so easy. Like, the conversation that we have with our therapists now is, well, all you have to do is grab the headset.

Yeah.

Order it on Amazon. Order it directly from Oculus.

It's 200 bucks.

You'll have it in 48 hours.

No PC needed, no sensors needed. And this is why Oculus Quest is gonna be such a big deal, because it lets us actually sell VR without all the nerdy stuff, you know, and it's. It's really huge.

And I love old nerds. That's great. But that's a different market because you.

And I are nerds. I don't love it anymore. I learned Docus Quest. It's like, I don't need to update my Windows machine. Keep the sensors all aimed the right way. Right. My kids come in and move them around. All of a sudden I have to recalculate. I just want to put on a classic.

What's.

So you sell this to the therapist. Right. You're not yet in a business model where a parent can buy this and start using it. No. Really part of a therapy session. It is.

Yeah.

Those are usually the professionals. I mean, I don't do my own. I don't do ABA with my kids. I don't know how to do it. I'm not trained in that.

So, yeah, no, we are targeting professionals first. And that has been a question within our company. Is what, Rob? Do you go B to B or B to C? Right. And what we concluded is B2C is a long game, but B2B is a short game because we need to make sure that the standards of practice are being adhered to. These are professional individuals who have gone through schooling for many, many, many years to become therapists. Specifically, like the lead therapists, the BCBAs and the BCABAs, nothing of the record and whatnot. And it's really important for us to maintain that. But that. That is not to say that a parent wouldn't be able to choose to use this under the supervision of an ADA therapist. Yeah, Right. And I think that's. That would be the only way that we feel comfortable with it. And that. But that's just the beginning. That's. That's like 24, 36 months type time. Right. Beyond that, it's sort of that titration effect. Like, you minimize this, but you increase the automation process.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's. It's straight to beat it.

How did you get funded? I mean, you're here at Boost. How did that process go? Because I'm trying to help, but I know there's going to be hundreds or even thousands of companies that start over the next five years. Right. And the companies that start in this field don't get funded by the people who funded Airbnb. Right. Maybe there'll be some crossover. But in general, there's a new group of funders, there's a new group of journalists who cover this stuff. There's a new group of influencers. Right. There's a new way, a new system being built. And so you can help out other companies that come along by telling you, telling them how you got here to Boost.

Oh, geez. So we were self funded for a really long time savings doing the 5 to 9 instead of 9 to 5. This is our second accelerator program. First accelerator program was called Boomtown in Boulder, Colorado. They were amazing. They sort of taught us the fundamentals, operationally speaking. And here at Boost has been just like incredible experience in terms of both funding and just like.

You're here for temporary time, right? How long are you here for? Temporary. Yeah, it's a short time.

No. Yeah, it's a short time. It's a short time. It's a short time.

It's like Y Combinator. You go for three months or something.

Yeah. So we're here for three months. The program started and February. Yeah. It's hard to. To wrap my mind that we're already on week nine, 12 week program. Yeah, yeah.

I'll be at the demo day.

Nice, nice. I will be pitching. It will be Annie Escalante. She's our. She's our bcpa. And yeah. Yeah. No, funding. Funding was. And funding is still difficult. Right. I think because a lot of folks are asking for proof of concept. Right? What, what are the. Is it work? Does it work? Right. Does it actually teach a skill? Right. Another thing that we're also working on is one of the things that we found through our user feedback scenarios with our current customers has been, while we love what you're doing, can you make something for staff training? Can we train my staff to provide better therapy to kids? They were like, oh, of course. That makes a lot of sense. Because the current software that we have is only as good as the therapist who's actually applying it.

Yeah.

Right. So we're actually pursuing that model too. So we have some preliminary training in.

VR is really big. Yeah. Jeremy Donson at Stanford showed me their results and that actually they took a camera out On a football field, he'll learn that the quarterback got better if he watched his plays over and over again in VR. And that started a company called Striver that's working for Walmart. But you're hitting something, right? There's going to be a lot of new kinds of training that's going to happen.

That's Annie. Annie, can you hear me? Hi.

Can you hear me?

Yeah. Yeah. So this is an interview type of meeting. Yeah, this is Robert.

Hi there.

Oh, wait, let me open.

Hello. Hi. Yeah, so we're just hearing about the company and how. How you guys got started and how you got to boost. And I have an autistic son, so we spent a lot of time talking about where this would be appropriate in therapy and who your first customers are going to be and stuff like that. So it's an honor meeting you, and thanks for doing what you do, because it'll help kids like my son, Milan.

Of course, Assisting folks in this population has truly been our passion. I don't know if Andy has told you, but both Dre and I have worked in this field for quite some time, and we thought the current methods that are being used to teach certain skills could be improved upon. And why not use virtual reality to make the training and the educational components fun. But also situation.

We were just talking about how Strivers using. They're working for Walmart. Right. And we were talking about. We had just begun talking about training therapists to provide better therapy and how we. Exploring that aspect.

So you might have two products in. Right.

You know, one, we kind of do have two products. Yeah, yeah. Which provides a. Or presents a difficult scenario or, like, which one do we focus on?

Right.

And that's something that we're already, like, we're talking, like, what. What will be. What will provide impact now. Right. But yeah, yeah, it's. It's. It's been. It's been an interesting ride getting here to boost this. So I guess for the current audience. Right. Like, it is not an easy path. Yeah. You're gonna be told no many, many times.

Yeah.

We were told no by Adam the first time around.

Yeah.

We applied. He said no. Don't know. Sorry.

Silicon Valley doesn't know how to fund companies like yours. That's not. That's not what they've grown up. It's not something that's an automatic exponential, you know, Airbnb or Uber. Right.

That's. That's.

That's, you know, that's what they're. What I'm looking for as a journalist. Right. And what, and what they're looking for as an investor. Right. Is that, is that company that can go worldwide really, really fast. Uber is probably the latest big example of that. Lyft just went public. Right.

Yeah. After.

Listen. Well, they were doing one company for seven years and then they switched the business model too. And it's been five years since the switch. Right. But still it's like 24 billion dollar company in five years. That's what everybody. And it's hard to see how am I going to make that with a company that's selling a therapist and autism, autistic kids or very small market right now. Not very many people have an autistic child in their lives. Right. So.

But it is, you know, it is a global issue.

Yeah.

Too. Right. Like. And one that's growing and one that's growing. Last year we were talking about 1 in 68 according to the CDC. Now we're talking about 159. Yeah, right. So it's a global issue that transcends socioeconomic.

And how many kids around the world are not identified as autistic? You know, here in Silicon Valley we know what autism is. Right. But there's a lot of people around the world who never get identified. Their kids are just a little strange.

Yeah.

Just put them through the school system.

They're misbehaving, they're just, they need to go to detention. They need to. There's been some really, really bad, some really bad scenarios that happen in countries like South America where the kids are chemically castrated and treated very poorly, treated like animals, and that shouldn't be the case. So there's a lot of education when it comes to that. Luckily, luckily there's also a lot of work being done in that scenario. We know personally of. And this is a plug for Autism Compassion Africa. Whitney hall, she has a center in Cape Coast, Ghana, and she's doing some incredible work. And I know she's doing incredible work because independently I met with one of the brothers of the kids who are there and he told me they do amazing work with my brothers. And that was just like incredible to me. So there are people out there that are spreading and advocating and helping this population. But we have a long way to go, very long way to go.

Even here in Silicon Valley, I see the level of care. And we were talking about, you know, when you have enough wealth to pay the therapists and pay the teachers and get well. I was telling him that I spent $2,500 just for the first test to learn what was going on with this kid. Right. We knew he was behaving out of bounds with other kids, but we didn't know what was going on. And just that first test cost $2,500 and that put us. He was diagnosed when he was two years old. Some kids don't get diagnosed. You're even here in Silicon Valley until they're four. Right. Because they don't have the money to figure out why their kids be misbehaving. And the school system sort of pushes them along as far as possible without, you know, really getting a good diagnosis. You know, it's really a problem. And this is in a wealthy area. Right. So can you imagine what it's like to be in an area that doesn't have this kind of extra expertise around the corner?

Yeah. In poverty stricken areas. I know Annie has a lot of experience in that realm. And to add on to that, there's a lot of comorbidity. Comorbidity. I don't think I'm saying that. Right. With other disabilities. So you have autism and cerebral palsy. Right. And you can imagine how that essentially makes situation so much difficult. So much more difficult. Right. Yeah, it's. But we're here because we're helping. Right. There's a positive. There's a positive aspect to this in what we're doing. And I think as technology just democratizes everything. Right. And we're trying to democratize therapy across fields, across disorders, across boundaries, socioeconomic boundaries, anything. Right. Like that. This affects everyone. Right. This doesn't affect a specific population. Right. And that. I think that. I think we're working in some amazing places. I agree.

I'm real honored to. You're one of my first videos in my new series. So I wanted to start out here because this is what's driving me as getting the industry further so that my kid, when he gets out of high school or goes through high school, has a pair of glasses that can really help him out. So thanks for the work you're doing.

Yeah.

Anything else we need to cover?

I don't know. Annie, you came in a little late. Do you want to speak? Do you want to bring in like any. Any sort of. Yeah.

What's it, what's. Maybe you can talk about the science that's behind this and the research that the field is doing with these kinds of kids. Because I know by going to the World Economic Forum that the science changes pretty frequently on understanding autism and how to treat it. And I bet this is a field that you have to keep up with even Building a VR company.

Right, Right, sure. So the, the science that we're using within the simulations that we're creating is called applied behavior analysis, which is basically, in a nutshell, the science of learning and behavior, this is considered to be a medically necessary treatment for individuals on the spectrum. So typically when a person is given therapy at a very young age, you're typically given either one with three or likely, hopefully all three different types of therapies. So you'll have leaf liver analysis. You'll also have speech and language pathology and also occupational therapy. What's interesting is the signs that we're using liver analysis. That's the signs or therapy that is typically given at the highest duration. So a child may be going through therapist for 10 to 20 hours per week, which is a lot of facetime. We have decades worth of research to show and support the effectiveness of all of our interventions. When it comes to assisting folks with spectrum, which is kind of lovely. And a lot of those interventions are being implemented within simulations too. When it comes to behavior analytic research and assisting folks with autism through virtual reality, we don't necessarily have a lot of that, but there is a lot of recent out there with virtual reality and some assisting folks with autism, maybe not necessarily within our field. And a lot of my research has been shown to be pretty effective in terms of allowing folks to see if they're too keen on having a headset on, which is pretty good. We've also.

We're losing you a little bit.

We're losing you a little bit on.

Certain skills like social skills or say things like fast, strange.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, we. You just glitched out a little bit.

Yeah, Continue, continue.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry.

I think the Internet here today has been kind of funky, so I do apologize about that. So. Yeah, yeah. So it's really interesting. I think something that we follow a lot when it comes to the research side of things is Skip Rizzo from usc. He's doing some phenomenal work with assisting folks on the spectrum using both AR and VR to teach job interview skills for folks who are some a little older, like young adults. And the results have been really positive. So the idea of using emerging tech to assist folks on the spectrum are folks who are neuropath. It's really promising. It's really rewarding and it's really exciting to see what the deal is going to get.

What drove you two to get in to do this company together?

So Annie and I are actually a couple. We've been together for about eight years. And the first like four years were just me listening to her talking about behavior analysis. Behavior analysis. Behavior analysis. And I'm like, yeah, that sounds really cool. Human behavior, yada yada. And then we met a pair of friends out at the University of Florida and Chris specifically was pitching something about behavior analysis in one of our classes. Right. For our entrepreneurship class. And I stopped and I said, hey, what are you talking about? Behavior analysis. Not many people know about this. So long story short, we actually started a business plan competition. We submitted a business plan for business plan competition. Which is weird because no one uses business plans anymore, but it was part of the curriculum. We had to do it. And long story short, we ended up here using virtual reality, going to conferences. So we get invited to conferences all the time under the premise that, you know, VR and ABA is a thing and we're the experts at it. Which by this, by now I would confidently say that we probably are. And that's a statement. So. And yeah, it's been like, my background's not in behavioral science, but I love it because it transcends so many different things. Right. So many different aspects of life. And it was definitely a, for me, it was a career change. Right. And it's been quite the ride. I wouldn't change it for anything ever. Like, ever. This is my life. This is their life. This is our co founders lives. This is what we do.

Where do we learn more about it?

Behavior Me. Follow us on Instagram. We also have okay. Following on Instagram by valley standards. We also found out that by valley standards everyone is on Twitter. So we also have a Twitter account. So search us on behavior Me. I believe that's our Twitter handle. And then behaviorme on Instagram and then sign up for our newsletter. We just started a nice new startup campaign to inform everyone.

You and me both.

Yeah, there you go.

At Infinite Random, we're doing all that too. So Infinite, right. And is following you guys. So I've been. Me and Irina are retweeting everything that moves.

So. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Actually you follow Chris or one of our co founders. He's like Robert was my hundredth co follower and he slapped that to us like, oh, that's funny. But yeah, no, yeah, just follow us, sign up for our newsletter and we're more than happy to talk to anyone.

Very cool.

Thank you, Robert. Thank you so much. Thank you.