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So, boy.

Hi, can you hear me?

Loud and clear. Go ahead.

Great. Sorry, I wanted to chime in because I've been hearing a lot that I so agree with about the fact that creative space is changing so much. I talk a lot about AI with a lot of people. I develop AI stuff, I've worked with it. I don't really want to talk about whether it is a AI or not, because a lot of what we're talking about is actually ML with correction algorithms to give us the output that we're looking for. And what we're talking about is these prompts. And this brings me back to the very basics of what we're talking about. When I first started working with computers, I didn't imagine that we would still be using keyboards now at all. I had this imagination of the future that had been given to me by sci fi writing that inspired me to get involved. Because what I could see was at some point we would have conversations, we would be able to vocalize what we wanted and correct it through conversation and discussion with a technology of some point. And we're at that tipping point now. It is because we have this predictive text models that can do things, that can be catching, connected to APIs that can. This is the power that we now have been given. And it will give creators access to tools that they couldn't previously use. Because why would they have to learn Python, why would they have to learn scripting of some particular software when they can talk to it? And it makes a huge difference to what can be done. And the people who have creative minds have previously been shut out from the technology aspect. Now I think there's lots of other questions about whether AI is our assistance in the art space is AI. For me, AI is the palette, not the artist. Because I have not seen anything an AI has created, written or produced that feels creative in the same way as going to an art show and seeing. Seeing a unique piece, something that has been created. Now, don't get me wrong, I think people are prompting these tools now to start to create things beyond what we expected. And, you know, Runway ML and some of the other stuff there is incredible, but it is soulless without the human creativity. And I don't want to sort of take too much time on this, but I'll happily talk about this kind of stuff a lot. But play with an AI long enough, and I think we've all said this so far, and there is a point where the mimicry, which is what it is, it is taking its best guess at the next Word, it's not actually creative. It's trying to statistically work out what would satisfy your question the most. Using numbers, literally vectors. So it is not thinking in a way that is creative, but it can mimic it and it can assist and it can stimulate. And actually to be honest, hearing people who are creative using these things to stimulate their brain when they're not being able to, you know, think in a way that they wouldn't otherwise think, I think that's the power, the power there is using this synset, knowledge of language and other tools to then find new creative opportunity for us and not to shut it down.

Yeah, thanks, thanks for the take, man. And you know again to reiterate, a lot of the problems at ground level that I personally detect is this lack of cross pollination because of these tools that are coming out. It seems to them, it seems to me that a subsection of different communities will have a different use case depending on what they use AI for. So let's take Astropulse here real quick. For example, a lot of what they do is pixel art. So by default and by virtue of them using pixel art as their medium, a lot of the problems that they.

Find new creators.

And to my knowledge it's not a space that's really that big when all is said and done and at least on here on Twitter. Right. So if you're not looking for these things, they won't really find you naturally or organically. So that's something I think is really worth addressing in the, in the long term. But plan, you had your hand up next. And what's up? What's your take? Plan file specifically. Oh hey, yeah, sorry, I'm here with my partner and we've been listening to some communities lately and I tell me if I'm off base, but one of the issues here is I hear that there's not anywhere to, I don't know, I guess host your. Yeah, host your, you know, your art. Kind of like an online gag or something. And like part of what Plan File is, is you know we're a startup company but it's like the GitHub of document management. And so you know, we think we could potentially you know, offer solution. We'd like your guys opinion on like what your thoughts would be on, on having something like that and how do you think it would be beneficial in this space and would people be behind that type of product Specifically I wanted to get your thoughts on. Besides, you know, you're creating a tool to address these issues but in the grand scheme of the Internet, you know, and how users behave, you know, what problems do you see that needs to be addressed more urgently, in your opinion? So in terms of, like, the conversation or just the industry as a whole? A little bit of both, actually. Okay, so the bigger concern here that I see is it looks like there's no real social media for AI artwork or anything in that space. And as a whole, it's just keeping.

Track of all of this material. So it's great that everyone's generating this.

AI art, but an issue is you can't track it. Make sure you know where it is, who's got it, how popular it is. You don't have a way to gather that information, present it to the creators, they won't know. Is this art actually popular?

Should I keep going?

Should I change something? So being able to have a platform where you can both host your files, track them, and present them to the public, I think is really important. And it doesn't seem like the present social media, does it? Facebook just says more of, hey, here's who liked it. But it doesn't tell you if they really downloaded it or if they're wanting to buy it or anything like that. So we're putting forward an idea of.

Here'S a new way to publish your files.

And what we want to do is, well, both hope that people sign up, but also we want to get feedback. But because we are new, we can actually take all of your suggestions and put it into the tool and build it out to what you need. And that's exactly what a space like this is for. It's not just a space of AI people or art people or even content creator people. It's a nice little hub, which very much in line with the sorts of ideals that I aspire to achieve. It's covering the intersection of arts, culture, and tech. And once again, I'm going to mute real quick to avoid feedback. That's what to make the job easier for me and post. But we had Jeremy next. Seems like I wanted to chime in on the topic at hand, so go ahead, man.

Yeah. Hey, team, thank you for having me up. Before I talk about, like, the issues for creators, I wanted to address one of the comments that was a bit earlier about, like, why is there so much hate from the traditional, let's call it art world? And, you know, obviously anyone who is involved in AI art or creation or design or music or anything, like, there's just a lot of pushback. I thought a lot about this coming from a traditional art and photography Background and sort of have distilled it into a couple of different things based on, like, my experience. Because my experience going through the last, you know, 20, 25 years as we go through every technological change, and it affects art, design and media and creativity. Like, my initial feelings are always, this is scary and I don't understand it. And so I'm defensive immediately. We're all scared of change, right? And if it's something we don't understand and it's suddenly so massive and everyone talking about it, it's really scary. People don't understand it. The other second thing is, like, it seems, I think probably from the outside that everything is now just about monetization. How can I monetize my art? How can I just get as much as I can from? How can I get more followers, more views? How can I sell stuff? How can I make more money from now? Doing something was traditionally, you know, for you and something that's so personal and creative. Number three, the combination of, like, art and tech has always been, like, on the fringes of traditional art. And that's why we call it, like, experiment.

Yeah, that was Russian. Hey, by the way, a quick interruption. Yeah. Please be wary to not use soundboard effects. You will be kicked from the space. No, no, no, take back seas. This is very serious. We're trying to do something cool here because a lot of people here are limited time. So let's try and make the most out of it. All right, cool. Jeremy, carry on.

Yeah, thanks. I'm going to assume that my Australian accent is not considered a soundboard effect for the purposes.

That was the nice one. Go ahead.

Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna zip through this because I want to talk about the creative stuff for a second. I think, you know, having said all of that, like, people think that they just can't keep up, which is. Which is really scary. And now, now that we've hit AI, the barrier to entry to what, like all of us have ever done has not been lowered. It has been removed. Barrier to entry to create Anything you want to create music, you can learn to do that by this afternoon. You want to create photography, pixel art, whatever the fuck it is. And now, this week with Runway, you want to create videos and full length feature films over the next, however many, let's call it months, you can do that. And that is terrifying. And it should be terrifying for everyone. So that was my. My little rant on, like, why it's so scary and why we have so much bloody pushback against this. And the Only thing is to just take it and keep moving forward. If you're. Allow me to like, just give you a quick take on the issues that I'm seeing for creators now is that this is all so confusing. There is so much going on and no one, even Robert, cannot possibly keep up. Like, I sort of like liken it to, like, imagine if like from the beginning time, humans only walked. Like, until last week, the only way of moving around is that we walked. And then suddenly on Monday, we have horses and cars, bikes, planes, we can swim, we can run, we have scooters, boats and skateboards, all on one day from now until forever. That's what this AI revolution feels like. And how it is being basically like, brought to us with, you know, into. Into the collective consciousness, right? And the tech is. It's all disparate, you know, we don't know how to actually deal with something that is this massive. When we go back to, like very early on in web, you know, from web one to three and now, I mean, I don't know what AI is. Are we in web three, 3.1 or 3.3 thousand, whatever it is, like, we only had a few places to look, right? If we go all the way back to Web one, we started Microsoft and AOL and just a couple of places that were giving us the tech that we were able to use. And when we get to social media, we have, you know, six to 10 companies that are controlling everything. And so you have a choice, and it's a really easy choice to be able to do. Now we hit AI and again, all of a sudden it's tens of thousands of tools because the barrier to entry has been also removed for actually creating this stuff. So you don't know where to look as a creator, you don't know where to look. The quality of one tool to the next varies massively. Things are getting put out so bloody quickly. That's really hard. And as a creator, if you're trying to just put out, like, put out content and create every day, but then also be like, cool, how can I use AI to help me to streamline this process or whatever it happens to be, where do I look? The fact that like, LinkedIn, carousels and all of these tweets are like the top 98 AI tools that you need to know this week, like, that is a crazy world for us all to be living in. It is just nuts. So the last thing I'll say is that, like, and I keep saying this as I have been since I got into this, you know, 18 months ago or something like today, AI is the worst it will ever be. And this is AI and as Rick was saying all about MM models. And, Rick, props for you to bringing that up, because I'm always talking about.

How a lot of this stuff is.

Actually not complete AI, but it is. AI is the worst it will ever be. It is the most expensive, it is the slowest, it is the worst quality, it is the hardest to access. But the speed that we're moving is such that, like this, like what I've just said there about it being the worst will be today, it will be tomorrow, it will be every single day from now until forever. That statement stands true. And that's a both terrifying and also bloody awesome. Because look at where we are today. Look at where we are from last week, pre Runway two, and now at the end of this week, after a single week of Runway two. Like, this is the most ridiculously. I mean, I'm so optimistic about, and I'm into it every day, and I'm, you know, using commercially clients or whatever, but, like, this is the craziest thing to maybe ever happen on the face of the planet. And, you know, everyone's talking about Oppenheimer and the bomb, et cetera, et cetera, but, you know, that was a story about history. I honestly think that this is the craziest thing to ever, ever happen to humans. I will stop ranting now. Thank you guys for listening.

Thanks, Jeremy. And I'll spin it back to Robert and then a few other hands afterwards. Go ahead, Robert.

Yeah, absolutely true. I was just thinking, you know, YouTube is such a resource. When I was setting up my studio and trying to get things. YouTube had videos on every damn thing I could come up with, like how to get a logo on video stream, how to. How to stream your deskt through obs.

Right.

Any question you have, and I'm sure that's true for AI art. We're seeing a lot of creators showing people how to do it, how to make it better, sharing prompts. So if you find the right people who share prompts with their art, that really helps you get started, you know, using Mid Journey in a new way or. Or, you know, whatever app you're trying to use, like Kyber, whatever. It's exciting and there's a lot to come. I'm watching the AI papers at a high rate. And what the innovators are doing with. With AI in the future is sick, because we're going to be in a holodeck, a 3D environment that we're going to be able to talk to and say hey, put a purple tree over there and a purple tree will appear. Right? And then we're going to have virtual beings that we can talk to, whether they're non playable characters in a video game or a digital assistant that we can talk to you run by something like GPT or an LLM underneath. And you're going to be able to talk to these things and interact with them, maybe even play some tennis or some chess or some game or shoot them, right? My son says I'm going to shoot them all the time. Like that's weird, right? And so there's a lot coming and the people who are learning to use AI today and it's imperfect state are going to be set up to be the performance artists of tomorrow. So you're absolutely right and that's one.

Hell of a line drop right there. And real quick, I wanted to make a comment about the Oppenheimer thing. I've watched the movie myself and I'm actually familiar with Oppenheimer the person. From a historical perspective. I really think it's not an understatement to say that what's happening in the tech space and really across all these industries is a very much an Oppenheimer moment. Meaning that right now we've moved into a different era altogether. The same way that Oppenheimer introduced a nuclear age right now we've effectively introduced the AI age and there's no sign of this stopping. And if you don't believe me, look around you for a little bit. You know, look about, look around on TikTok and these sorts of filters, they're coming out with the ability that they now have in terms of creating AI filters that are able to change your face in real time. It's, it's crazy. It's effectively a real time deep fake to be honest. And if you go over on, on, on the, on the audio space, people can clone your voice now from an excerpt of maybe five minutes. So 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Well, well there we go.

It gets better with more data. Right? But I've talked to several entrepreneurs who are cloning people in 30 seconds.

Yeah, it can be done in 30 seconds. Wow.

Well, okay, next of round of hands here. We got Hope coming up next and then we'll throw it over to Astro and then Vega. Go ahead Hope.

All right, and thank you for having me here first. And yeah, it's an interesting conversation we're going on. Since I've been in the NFT spaces and the art spaces, both in A lot of places, since I am blessed with the skill to speak Japanese, English and Spanish. So I've been the Japanese side, English side, Spanish side. And I heard a lot of interesting things about many things, including AI and stuff for one instance, about creating things with AI in the Japanese side, there's this huge and massive problem that, for example, we have really famous, famous illustrators and people, you know, snatch their artwork and feed it to the AI and create something similar to it. But you cannot say that it's not from the author itself. It seems like that, but it sells well. So it becoming a thing like how to use the tool. Exactly. Rather than if the tool this but or not. And about what Robert was saying about, you know, using AI technology to make a certain character speak to you and so on and so forth, I think it was yesterday a Japanese. How can I say this? Well, it's not an arrogate or something like that, something similar to that route. People call it Garoge. It's a game that you can talk to girls and you see how the interaction with that character goes on throughout the story of the game. But this Japanese company made a certain character from that route of game that will talk to you and you can talk to her by AI. So there's gonna be a real life interaction throughout the screen and sort of thing. So, yeah, this AI thing is going really, really fast for us, I guess.

Yeah, it's a lot to keep track of, man. Astro, go ahead, my man.

Yeah, I just wanted to touch back in on the sheer speed that AI is progressing as a, as a developer in this space. And I'm pretty much exclusively in the realm of, you know, text image AI. I barely touch large language models or anything like that. And like, I have to keep a constant list. I have a list of notes on my phone and on my computer of new stuff that's dropping pretty much every day, every hour. And researching that is pretty much what takes up all of my time as a developer. So prioritizing and knowing what to focus on is a huge thing. If you're building anything in this space because there is so much advancement going on and you want to know, all right, is this going to be the next Control Net or is this going to be some kind of flop that no one really pays attention to? Because if you're building on your own, that can be an advantage, but it also means you get no support from the community. So it's really crucial to kind of cut out the noise when you're focusing on AI and the advancements. Which I know that Robert helps everyone here with.

Yeah, I agree. Vega, you're up next.

What's up?

Oh, I was just, you know, we were just talking about AI voice models and stuff like that and I just made one of my voice this week and it was, it wasn't 30 seconds, it was about 35 minutes of, you know, music acapellas that teach you how to rap. It processed a thousand times, so it.

Was a thousand iterations of processing.

It took about 33 hours. It sounds pretty good. I mean, I plan to use it.

For.

You know, songwriters that want to write songs for the digital character of Junior. And I also have messed around with connecting it to NPC characters for video games. So like you can attach a voice to, you know, an NPC that either responds using ChatGPT or you know, with trained data to kind of give it a fake, you know, like personality or whatever. And those are things, you know, that I'm, that I'm using. And I have no background in like development or coding or any of that stuff at all. But I'm still able to do it because of how open source these AI platforms are becoming. I can understand people's frustration if they've developed a skill over decades or a long time in their lives, but I think the safest place to be is in like developing that sort of technology for other people to be using because somebody's going to do it and all the skills that took forever are going to be done by like 15 year olds that just have a computer with a 3080 graphics card or something like that. You know what I mean? Like it's so open and available to everybody who has like nothing to do with those skills and just have like minor interests. It's is getting pretty crazy. So yeah, I, I saw Rick's hand jump up earlier and then we'll circle all the way back to Roshan afterwards. Go ahead, Rick.

Thanks. I just kind of wanted to bring it back to what people are discussing actually the most here is people have been given access to tools to be able to create when they couldn't before. So yes, there is a crazy amount of stuff happening so quickly and these things are coming out all the time. It reminds me of something. It reminds me of an interview with Eminem about technology giving a new landscape to music because suddenly you didn't need a recording studio to make that first song. You actually could use a Mac laptop suddenly. And that was not a barrier to entry. So he said in one way it's fantastic because it means that Those kids who never got the opportunity to were creatives, they were suddenly contributing, he said. But there was the opposite effect at the same time, which is that you are swamped with very average creations from people who have just been given the tools and now can do something, but they're actually not really those standout artists. So the real artists are getting lost in that horrible sort of mass production of it. So I think it also brings it back to the point of how we have a platform for appreciating creators and how they have somewhere to stand out above and beyond what is just generative art. Because all of the creations that these AIs are making are from being trained on existing art and photography. And so it's mimicry, it's creation through solving the problem of the text prompt. It is not coming up with new artwork, it is taking other people's art and delivering what you've asked for. And I think that's very different.

Yeah. And briefly, I will say, although I'm not close minded to a healthy debate, again, the point at hand here ultimately is about how to use these tools and making the most out of them. I'm not that interested in trying to discuss the ethics or the interest of who's benefiting from what, because truth be told, in the grand scheme of things, that really solves nothing, right? We have a crazy amount of creators that are joining in more than ever on a wide variety of platforms. And as someone who predominantly publishes writing, I can tell you AI makes a lot of my work easier for a very simple reason. It's essentially the ability to have on my team what's effectively a marketer, a idea generator, a consultant, and many more other roles that I can't really afford to keep and keep track of, you know, for myself as a solo founder. So from that, that perspective alone, honestly makes a lot of things easier for me. And not only that, a lot. I think what a lot of people don't think about in terms of writing as a medium, right, is that it's. It's what I like to call its remix. Remix factor, meaning that you can take something you've published as a piece of writing in the past and upgrade it into a video if you feel like it. And guess what? AI can do that. You can also repurpose that into a more wide variety of other contents. You know, it could be an infographic so that you post it on these predominantly visual based platforms, or you can take it even a step further and have an AI voice read the transcript for you and publish that as its own separate podcast. So there's a lot of ways I really do think that these tools can, can be used and leveraged in a way that effectively make our role as creators easier, which is to put our work out there, obviously, but make it easier for us to find the demographic that most resonates with said work. So we'll circle back to Robert and then hope. Go ahead, Robert.

Yeah, this is actually why I give up on AI art because I realized I couldn't keep up with, with the bleeding edge of AI artists because they went to art school. They maybe they know the genre of art to talk to, to the engine about. They know different artists names, they know different kinds of, you know, techniques to use or you know, like, like, like, you know, different kinds of aesthetics, different kinds of techniques to talk to the engine with. I can do that with English. So I'm much, I'm attracted much more heavily toward the LLMs, towards G, you know, chat GPT, which is very useful for me while writing because I can talk to it about writing very well. Right. And, and last thing, One of my favorite prompts is a question. Can you show me all points of view on a topic on Ansel at or a person or a place on Ansel Adams on Yosemite national park, on, you know, chemistry or something specific? It'll give you a bunch of points of view, then you can talk to it again. And this is where you all know this. But the bleeding, the people who haven't tried AR AI yet and most people haven't. When I travel America, most people look at me strange when I start talking to them about have you used AI yet? You know, they haven't tried it, but you can follow it up with a second question like can you change each of those points of view to a Persona? And it'll come back and give you a person's name for each point of view. Then you can do a third prompt. Can you join those Personas into a debate club or a South by Southwest panel discussion or a board of directors, right? Then you can ask it a really interesting question about that topic. And, and the people will answer you back that. I. E. The, the AI will answer you back in different points of view with different people's names. Like, you know, this person has this point of view. This person has a completely different point of view on this topic. Right. And it's really useful for me to start. That's what gets me starting writing because I now I have a, a panel discuss to. To discuss things with.

Right.

So an additional point I'd like to bring up too as well is that on the writing side, a little unknown thing about these AI tools is that you can now install your own local large language model, which effectively means that you can train it on the database that you yourself have built up and ask effectively yourself question from a third person perspective.

You can do that with GPT too. You can copy thousand words and paste it in a GPT and it'll start talking to you about it and then you can start talking to it about that document.

Right.

You can do this with the iOS app. If you have chat GPT iOS app in the prompt window is a little tiny icon that starts recording that's you're now talking to Whisper API and you can talk to your phone for a while or have it listening in on a conversation. Like you could turn it on right now and have it listen to this conversation and after 15 minutes you can then talk to GPT about this conversation and have it do things for you. Like, could you write me a blog post? Could you write me a tweet about what they were just talking about?

Yep. So we'll go from Hope to then astropulse to then, right? K10 Go ahead Hope.

Yeah, just hop in and you know, in the topic that was a few minutes earlier about how to use it and not exactly like on the topic of ethically how to use AI or not and so on, in my opinion, my journey of using AI myself a few times when creating art, for example, I mostly create butterflies and so on, but sometimes I don't want to make just a butterfly. I just, since I'm a crazy man, I want to make butterflies made out of human hair sometimes or made out of feathers. I have to ask the AI how would look like an actual photorealistic butterfly, but with feathers or human hair or with fire or anything. So the AI will show me something. It's not entirely like, really, how can I say, like refined or high graphic. It's not anything like that will blow your mind or something. It's sometimes it's like a doodle or something like that. But it's enough for me and I look into the AI and I start practicing how it will look like in real life and you know, composite to my art and so on. So I think AI could teach you a lot of things, you know, writing help you in those kind of stuff. But since human imagination can sometimes be blocked, for example, with everything that you see, it could be a conversation, it could be someone's art that you have seen that gives you a certain expectation of what you can create and what you cannot. But sometimes AI can help you to do a little breakthrough in that area, I think.

And real quick, I'll mention on the capabilities of these tools on the language side, I'm a polyglot that can speak five languages. I cannot stress this enough how much of a step up these tools are compared to, say, Google Translate. And hope you can attest, as a Japanese native, well, quasi native speaker, the Toll is surprisingly good at understanding not only the nuances of translation, but the nuances of etymology specifically, which is the origins of where the word comes from. Which would make sense, right? Because to my understanding, a lot, a large part of the data that the model has been trained on comes from Reddit and Wikipedia and so on. So obviously that database would be there in terms of the etymology of languages and so on and so forth. So, Astropulse, you're up next, man.

Yeah, I just wanted to touch on what Robert said a bit about how, you know, having some artistic knowledge can really kind of hold you ahead in working with different AI art tools. I mean, obviously it kind of makes sense that knowledge of composition and different art forms and art in general would really help you with these models. But honestly, you can't understate the effect. You can take someone who maybe has an interest in art and they'll be better at using AI art tools than someone who has no interest. But if you take someone who's been trained and studied art as a science, in a way, you actually get some incredible results. That's one of the things that I try to tell my customers and anyone using AI tools is it's not a substitute for knowledge. It's an amplifier for your creativity and your understanding of, of art. So the more you can learn, the better. In fact, one of the things I actually recommend is if you want to get good at AI art, get good at traditional art because it will amplify your skills that much more.

Yeah, I could not agree more with that statement. SpriteK10, you're up next.

Hello. Just a quick background. I'm from like old school Photoshop layer, flatten, kind of cut, paste, decoupage type way and digital. But that's just a quick background. I didn't grow up in art school. I didn't go to art school. And I'm not really updated. I haven't used like certain AI software yet to create art. And I know that there's a lot of backlash from not to talk about that, but I Think one of the great tools about the great things about AI to create art is that it is a tool and it's how you use it, right? And one of the best ways to do it, like, I would take my photos, I took my own photos. I would edit, you know, I would get clip art here and there sometimes, and I would pie, like decoupage. It's like cutting pieces out of a magazine and taping them together, you know, kind of like memes, right? We. We all change memes and make them our own. But I think one of the greatest tools is layers. Learning how to use those layers, understanding the artist. I, you know, there's great art magazines that introduce people to some amazing art. I have some favorite art magazines that I've used over the years that, you know, just inspired me in many ways as well. But I think one of the biggest tools is, you know, contributing your own level of personal input. You know, I know the laws on this are really. They're talking about changing every moment. I mean, there's some laws that are going on. I know there was lawsuits and everything. And keeping up to date on that stuff, especially when it comes to making profit on it, is absolutely key. I know there's a lot of copyright issues and not to get into that, but just one of the main things I recall them talking about on the news was that there's a level of, if you take a photo and it's a preexisting photo, that has. But if you've changed it to the point where it changes the whole concept, changes the whole, and you've really personalized it, I believe that's like, couple months ago that I saw that. I believe that's like the most updated information that I have when it comes to taking unoriginal content of yours and making it original to you. So those are just my two cents. Layers, layers, layers.

And speaking of layers, you know, for me, at least from a writer's perspective, I think of these things as a modular kind of fashion. Right? Meaning that how can I translate the information I'm providing from medium to medium? And part of the reason why I even organized this panel together was because I found a fellow founder who was working on something I was working on actively on my own side. Because the way I see it, based on consumer behavior, across YouTube, TikTok, obviously Twitter as well, and many other platforms, video is king. That. That's undeniable, right? So it's only a matter of taking what you have as a creator and introducing that to people in that format. Because that's what folks are currently accustomed to. And not only that, algorithms seemingly are punished formats that are not video Right now on Instagram specifically, if you make a traditional grid post or carousel post, you won't get that much engagement. It's to the point where the newly launched thread app that the Instagram released will give you a significant boost in exposure based on what you post there, solely because of the fact that at least a on that platform, a lot of the content is writing based, which forces people to divorce themselves from this mentality that everything has to be video now. So there are things to think about when it comes to not only the future of these tools, but the future of the content that you yourself are creating. Which is for me, I think it comes down to this idea of taking agency and being organized as far as as like where you want to take your content next and where what the best places are available to you to do so. And I can tell you confidently, TikTok and YouTube shorts are the definitive places for you to gain exposure right now, period, point blank. And I was actually curious to do a follow up with Ray on that topic because there's someone who's built a tool about that. Would you mind explaining a little bit more about not only what the tool does, but why it's important and why it's useful?

Yep. All right. So the tool I've built, I called it Short GPT. It's been initially made for automating shorts from scratch. So you have you go from either nothing to making a whole short or you go from some already existing information and it creates your short. And the tool, what it does pretty much is it automates all the aspects of creating the content. So it uses GPT under the hood to create the scripts, refine the scripts, make them better. Then it uses other APIs like 11 labs for generating a human voice. It does narration, then it finds some background music or whatever, puts it on top of it, puts background video and produces the whole thing. Puts a title, puts a description and automates the whole pipeline.

Right.

I built the tool like six, seven months ago and initially it was more of a fun experiment because I know how to code in Python and stuff and I'm pretty familiar with content in general. I've been consuming quite a lot of shorts and like video content in the last few years. I'm 20 by the way, so I'm in a demographics where a lot of people consume a shit ton of content. And I've always been fascinated by how, like by the question if it's possible to automate that stuff and for it to work. And I launched a YouTube channel like six months ago now, and in the span of three months it made around 700,000 views, like 20,000 likes, whatever. And it worked, right? And then from that I tried to replicate the process into other niches on YouTube and see if you could technically engineer content that would be very high value, high dopamine, like it would bring high dopamine, dopamine value to your viewers. And if it could work. And then from that on I made some other channels, I made some other niches and I decided to spin the whole thing into a framework, a programming framework where you can engineer content like from Python or whatever. And of course in the future it's going to be much more simpler. For now, I have like, I released a user interface and stuff. It's free, everything is free, the code is free. I released everything because I found that it was a pretty good experiment and it gave very good insight into the future of content creation. So basically what's going to happen I think, is there's going to be a shit ton of content repurposing and technically content repurposing could be considered as original content. So you see, let's say you have a documentary of two hours and now there is highlights in the documentary, there's some good information from that. You run whisper on it, you run GPT on the transcript, you make a summary from, takes a few shots from the documentary, it takes a few clips, whatever puts them together, adds a voice, adds a music, boom. It produces a short video or a short on TikTok, whatever. And from that you get a ton of views. And it's a way to reuse the already existing content from the Internet. There's an infinite out there and you can remake it like enjoyable just by engineering, good editing around it and everything using AI, Everything's automated. That's pretty much what I, what I'm doing.

So I'll, I'll follow that up real quick and then I'll spin it back to Robert and the other hands. Here's why this is important. Okay, I'm sure the name Andrew Tate rings a bell to you. Now, I'm not here to discuss, you know, why it's popular or whether or not it should be popular. I just want to talk to you about the mechanics of how we got there. Andrew Tate, prior to him rising to prominence on the online sphere, was a nobody. I myself did not know about the guy and I'll go as far to say that everything I've learned about him was against my will. Truth be told, I would go on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, I saw nothing but him everywhere. And I looked into it as to why that was. You know, why is this guy all over my feed? There has to be a reason. Come to find out. The reason why he was everywhere was the content, specifically short form content. What he did was that he enticed a bunch of high profile creators on TikTok to have an affiliate link of attached to their bio and it would just tell them, hey, create content based on the podcast highlights I've been featured on. That was his only directive and this whole game theory scheme and it worked to an almost scary degree because at some point he became the most Google man on earth. And that's not me saying it to agree with them. It's just me to say to you that this is someone who unless understood the online content space well and leveraged it accordingly to build a platform for himself which currently makes it makes him effectively platform proof. This is someone. Even if he was to get banned on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, it doesn't matter. The following he's acquired and built up for himself. He's done so through the dissemination of reposting content, content featuring him or based around him. That's the key takeaway here I want you to keep in mind. Go ahead, Robert.

No, I'm trying to learn video myself for the purposes that were discussed here. We need to get as an industry better at telling stories to people who don't understand AI. And video is a huge way to reach them and it is difficult. My video stream that I put at the top is still not working right. You know, this is my first test with it. So you have to start and you have to get it set up and you have to refactor until you can communicate with video with others.

Yeah, and we'll go to Mind Grenade. Go ahead.

Hey, thanks for having me. So I wanted to talk a bit about what I think is like another art renaissance. And I think that AI is foundational. And so the way I see it, you know, my background is in digital art. One of the other speakers mentioned kind of doing like the layers of images in Photoshop and kind of piecing together something. Often did quite a bit of that, a little bit of digital. Hey, thanks for having me. So I would then take that, talk a bit about tangible products. So like another never sold anything. And everything I've made is like for my personal, AI is foundational, like I design like apothecary labels because my background is I design like mission patches for object. One of the other speakers mentioned kind of doing things like that. The layers of images and kind of piecing together as you were talking about video kind of piqued my interest because I see, like, if you were to. To take content from whether generated by AI or partially drawn by humans and were to support that by other mediums, it could really kind of embody you as an artist in one thing. So I'm definitely interested in the technology that you had mentioned, Ray, but I'm kind of curious to hear from other people and what they think about getting art in or getting like AI tooling in the hands of people who have not traditionally trained in art. You know, previously, this could be like pen and paper, pencil and paper, and like, you go to a museum, you get inspired and you try to draw. This kind of takes you a few steps ahead where you tell AI to give you something. You know, what say you want to draw like the space shuttle taking off and it could start you there and then say you want it to be like stained glass style. It can really start to bring the images in your head to life. So I guess the question for the people is, do you think that this is going to get many more people involved in creating art as opposed to how it's been the past 10 years?

Okay, I will keep that question in the back channel and now move to the answers and then we'll circle back to that. But thanks for bringing that up because it does fall into the very things that we were hoping to discuss today. So Sprite K10, you're up next.

All right, I wanted to talk about chat, GPT and like for the writers. Right now I write poetry as well. I used to make long content videos. So short form, I never, never was on TikTok. But short form for me is kind of like, I consider like a commercial, you know, it's like enticing you to come see the full thing. So that's why I see short form. And I think it's great for that. But always having a link to that full content, you know, kind of draws you in. But with, with writing, one of the things I did, you know, I hand write my stuff and I constantly worry about, you know, copyright issues or someone stealing my stuff, you know, and. And so I, I tried to create this way where I would write it. I would create a video using an image, a digital image that I created, and then I would record myself reading it in a. I Guess artistic way or the way like you'd read at a, like a poetry reading. Right. So. And I added music and I added kind of like an emotion to it and I used a free software actually. But I think that actually kind of gives a level of its own copyright. Obviously it's not copyrighted, but it makes it so layered with, I'm trying to think of the word, the layer of integrity of the art that it's actually yours and you wrote it and you have. And I think that utilizing it like that can help a lot of writers. There's always going to be someone that studies your style and can steal your style. I often say that, you know, if you weren't schooled in art or schooled in writing and you never read a book and you never went to a museum, if you created something and it looked like something else or it sounded like something else, is it unoriginal? And that is something hard to disprove or prove. So, and I think just a quick little tidbit with Mind girl, I can't see the full thing. I think AI is opening the doors to an immense amount of people to be able to create quality art that may not able to, to, to do, you know, draw a perfect circle, disprove, you know, so, and I think that understanding the tools. Quick little tidbit when, you know, I, I look at, I, I messed around with some on, on here, there was an ad, there was a, a page on here that was like, you know, and I, I played with it and I put in like, you know, fairy girl holding a can of Coke or something like that. And it came up with some weird stuff. But understanding that tool and understanding how to use it is like coding, for example. It's understanding how to utilize the words. It's like an algorithm that picks out certain words or phrases and inputs and understanding that is really the only skill set and understanding how the software actually works is what's going to be the defining factor of who is creating incredible different content based. I think I've portrayed my, I think I've explained myself, but I'll shut up now. Thank you.

Yeah, and I appreciate you for chime in and just to be. To make sure I got your point across properly, you were talking about the safeguards put in place as to ensure that the people people will create using these tools can be properly compensated. Correct?

Not necessarily compensated. It's, it's, for me, it's more like, you know, my writings. I, I haven't, I haven't personally copyrighted everything, so it's hard to.

And I.

Know it's fairly easy and I know it's pretty cheap probably, but I have like, I, I have stacks of things that I've wrote and it's just like I, I guess I'm lazy but I think it, it's creating a way that someone could, for example, okay, so I, I, I had video on YouTube and when you have caption on, it'll read the words and it'll say. And I've often had to correct it because I'm like that's not the word I used. There's like words like, for like there they are there, there, there's all these. And depending on how you wrote could have a different context. So there's, when I, when I'm talking about like protecting that, it's having multiple different layers of unique qualities that are absolutely only for you and then having proof to back it up. Like I hand write, I hand write stuff. So that's my proof, you know. But yeah. Does that answer your question?

Yeah. So it sounds to me that it, it's addressing provenance in terms of being able to showcase that you're in fact the originator, originator of a work. And personally I can't really answer that because I'm not the final authority on this. Both from a legal perspective but also from an industrious perspective.

Because does that answer your question?

Different guidelines by which they abide. But I can tell you as a writer though that I have a very clear cut stance on this. If you don't, if you do creative work and you interface with any of these tools that are predominantly online based, understand that that may be repurposed at some point by that very same company. You know the, it's like the age old saying, if the product is free, you're the product, so you choose what you turn away in terms of your data. Which is why I've said this before and I'll say it again, you can now have your own model installed locally and then do work from that this way. And then if you choose to publish your work later, you can do that. That's the, that's the first thing. And the second angle for me is that it really depends on what it is you want to do.

Right.

If you are serious about your endeavor.

About.

Trying to put your work out there and make money out of it, then yeah, like copywriting is the obvious first step to address because at that point you guaranteeing the security and the provenance too technically of what you're working on. So that if it hits big, you can now monetize it properly. Who say, who say, who says that in the future someone might want to turn your work into a script for a film or they might want to adapt that into a video game. That's what copyright is for, so that you're properly compensated and credited along the way in that chain of creation. Yeah, so it's coming up right now or addressing that, I think is needed of shaking things up because up to that point, copyrights has been a wildly misunderstood and I think it's to a fault because the people that typically suffer the brunt of the problems are the creators themselves because they don't have any idea of how any of this works from a engineering perspective. You know, they have no idea how to best leverage them to make the most out of their platforms. And that's what I think a discussion like this is for. It's to really encourage people to think a little deeper about not only the tools that they're using, but the goals that they have moving forward. So we'll pass it back to you, Astropulse, and then we'll circle all the way back and reset the space.

Yeah.

I just wanted to quickly touch on the concept of, you know, are people actually getting involved in art from AI art? And I mean, the simple answer is yes. One of the biggest things I've seen is, you know, people coming into, into the space using AI tools, creating images with, you know, from text and going, all right, this is neat, but I, you know, how do I fix this? I want to, I want to change that. And, you know, starting to, from that point of interest, from that, that sort of quick start of, you know, being able to just get that idea in your head out, you know, have, have some sort of visual feedback on what you're thinking about. For a lot of people, that, that doesn't happen naturally. And so having that medium of, hey, I can type some words and get an image is huge. And that kickstarts their entire process. And it gets them going, it gets them interested in, oh, now I can do this, now I can. You know, maybe I'll learn to do some editing in Photoshop. Maybe I'll learn to draw from scratch and then push it into sketch to image and get some kind of colorized thing out. And it's really bringing a whole lot of people who either didn't feel like they had the skill or just were never interested before into a more traditional art workflow. And it's so cool to see. It's incredible. There's no other way to put it. This is opening the door to so many people who didn't have access to. And I think that says a lot.

And to real quick piggyback on that and respond to mine grenade. A lot of the things that are currently happening in the space, from my humble opinion, it's widely overblown but also misunderstood. And it's for a very simple reason. Up to that point, artwork always assumed to be a. A elitist game, if you will, right? At least depending on who you ask. Because some people will tell you, depending on what industry we're talking about, that you can only get in if you've really proven yourself. Filmmaking would be a good example of that. Can anyone pick up a camera and make their own film? Sure they can. But is anyone going to be able to be like Christopher Nolan and put out, you know, 100 million dollar budget for Oppenheimer movie? Probably not. So in that sense it's a fairly restrictive industry. But if you circle back to traditional art or digital art, you know, and you put what to put out your own work that's not as restrictive, you can effectively build a platform for yourself and God garner attention that way. And with that comes comes opportunities to monetize that work, whether it's through creating merch and so on and so forth. So there's layers to think about when it comes to things like that. And I also think from a broader context there's this idea that art is a thing that a few people can engage in because it is time consuming, you know, because you have to dedicate a practice to a craft. And some people unfortunately may not have the time to do that. And that's an argument that I myself have made time and time again, not for the sake of excusing this idea of, you know, cheating or cop out. It's just that realistically there are people out there that they do have the passion. I know a bunch of them myself. You know, they have the passion, they have the skills, they have the willingness. But when, when all is said and done, they have restrictions that they have to stick by to be able to live life and just survive. So I really do think that these tools introduce a layer of friction free environment where you can now actually focus on the part you care about doing, which is creating. So we'll circle back to Robert in a second, but I'll reset the space real quick, real quick and mention that, hey, if you're new here, my name is Wiz, I'm the founder of wispill and I've dedicated the wispill platform specifically to discuss the intersection of arts, culture and tech. And today we featured quite a few panelists and specifically we were having Robert Kobo and Ray Ventura to talk about everything content creation and everything AI and how that applies in the broader creator ecosystem. So you're welcome. Hope you've been informed and hope you found this session useful. And yeah, you're welcome to come up and discuss. We're going to stay on for a little bit longer, so if you didn't get the time to chime in, that would be your time to do so. And I'll lastly mention that the majority of my work in my research is published, published on Substack. It's a platform where I publish, you know, my podcast, my writing, my article and I've published a few of the people here on the panel already, such as Astropulse and their work in the AI art, pixel art space specifically, and how they've successfully monetized that for themselves as a solo freelancer. So if you're curious about that, definitely check it out in the link in my bio now headed to Robert, go ahead, man.

Hey, you were talking about how easy it is to get started and that's true. And there's going to be a whole range of users who just need an image for a website or a brochure or even just to entertain their family or friends. And that's sort of where the bucket I'm in, I'm using it that way. There's other people I've met, artists who are, who have done more than 100,000 prompts of, of mid journey or stable diffusion. Right. The people who do it at that level are getting better art out of it because they've learned what it does well and what it doesn't do well. And they are now those people now are turning into storytellers. I'm noticing there's a group of AI artists who are telling stories with their art and not just putting up a random piece of art that they've, you know, that they're proud of creating, but that they're actually using that art to either start generating video or even with pictures. Like Santa is telling stories with his AI art over time and, you know, entertaining an audience that way. So think about being a performance artist, right? It's it, you know, start thinking about how, how to use AI art to create something where you can get in front of people doing it live like, like we're doing here and to start thinking about, you know, how to not just tell stories with it. But I'm sorry, not just be a performance artist, but tell stories with it on Twitter or wherever you're publishing.

Yeah, and I'll follow that up too and say that I, I really, I've said this before and I'll say it again, there's so much opportunities out there in terms of monetizing your work alone. And I think the main problem that a lot of people run into, unfortunately, is that they don't really know where to start or they don't know how to start. More importantly, and I can tell you that one of the things that will help you the most along the way in terms of concrete steps to get there, is to do community building. And the way you do that is by engaging in what I like to call digital third places. And for the sake of this specific angle, I'd like to reference a person by the name of Balaji Sinuvasan. They wrote a book titled the Network State. And long story short, it talks about this idea that the Internet as we know it is evolving and we're moving away from a predominantly platform based model where people would subscribe to you or follow you on a platform, to now an individual based model where people are more interested in what you have to offer as a person and by extension they will be enticed to follow you wherever you want end up going. So that's a very important skill set to have because right now, platforms, for better or worse, are not on our side as creators. Do we provide the value to them? Sure we do. Do we provide the traffic? Of course we do. But there's a very unequal ground here where if they do choose to ban you, you have nothing to show for it. And that's one of the key problems, problems I myself have detected over time. As someone who by all accounts has been a Twitter maxi for years.

Right.

A lot of the stuff I work on and publish I share on Twitter. But the problem with Twitter that I see unfortunately in the short term is that so many changes are happening so quickly and it's introducing so many layers of friction that it's effectively threatening the foundations of the the communities and these third digital places that have been built up for decades up to that point. So it makes it difficult to keep in touch with people. And I'll speak for myself too and reference that currently I cannot even DM people on a consistent basis solely because the recently introduced change. Indeed, Twitter settings pre vets someone without a blue check mark to message request someone else. That's a big problem that's a layer of friction between communication between users, and effectively it reduces the opportunities for users to organize and do what they want to do. So whatever platform you're the most comfortable on, you know, try and think about that and try and seek people out that way. Or I can make it even that much easier for you and just follow me or Robert along in this journey, because chances are, wherever Robert ends up, I'll be around. And for me specifically, I've made it a point to be as present on as many platforms as possible. So that includes Reddit, TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, here, obviously Instagram, the newly launched Thread app. But my hub by, for, by far are and for sure is Substack. And that's for a very simple reason. Sub Stack typically is advertised as a newsletter platform, which is not incorrect. But the value I saw in Substack specifically from a creator's perspective, is that it is a place where I can effectively curate the research I've done and publish it in whatever format I see fit. It could be video, it could be audio, it could be text. What Substack enables me to do discussion like this to really encourage people to think a little deeper. I'm actually able to put together a timeline of events of the things I currently am researching about and establishing the connection that way. And that's really useful for me at a later time too, because all of that work that I publish on Substack, it's mine to keep. It's. It's there in their policy of user and whatnot. So that's really huge for me in terms of investing the time and energy takes to do that research and gather that information and publish it on a platform that is not threatening the stability of that research so that it, say, disappears or gets deleted and stuff like that. And also for those of you that may not be aware, another layer of usability from that angle is that I'm able to effectively communicate with the people that subscribe to my work directly via email. Because since it is a newsletter platform, I can then leverage it to publish content to them directly. That's what I mean when I say you own your platform and you, you move away from this model where you let the platform do the work for you and you now do that work and you become the spokesperson for the very work that you publish. That's something that I think in the age of AI and the age of technology becoming increasingly complex and advanced, that's going to be very essential moving forward for creators of many kinds of. And personally, I'm Only using Twitter for spaces at this point in time. And that's the only value I see in it. I'm not here to debate about that. Just so we're clear, this is just me. This is how I function. This is how I saw the time and the energy spent being fit and be best put to use. So I hope that this might have given you some insights and some ideas as far as the broader context of what's currently going on in the creative space. Because make no mistake, all these tools coming out right now, they will in and impact you and affect you at some way at some point in time. Just give it enough, you know, months, if not weeks, to be honest. Because already, as we speak, writers and actors on strike. And the little unknown fact about that is that they're on strike specifically because. Not because of AI itself per se, but because these companies that they're beholden to are telling them that you have to create work based on AI prompts that we've created, which effectively would make it so that they don't. They no longer own that work, which effectively would restrict them from accessing residuals and royalties. That's a big problem that needs to be addressed. And that's something that I'm, personally, I'm very curious to see how these developments will turn out over time, because their victory or their loss will be a victory or a loss for all of us. So we have another hand up. We got Rebel up on stage. So please go ahead, my man. Chime in.

Thanks. And yeah, I don't know if I should do a short introduction, but I've been working in tech my whole adult life. The last half decade or so, I've been working as a cdo. And what I think is interesting right now is as you were talking about, that fragmentation of the social platforms. You try to be on as many as possible, but you kind of have that. That disconnect. Like, okay, I don't know if you're on XYZ or if I can message you or do I have to pay to message you? And then there's another movement around apps like Beeper and texts that are trying to gather all of these communication platforms together. And we're kind of back to before Facebook, like, raise a hand if you remember Google circles. I mean, it's kind of the only. Right now, the only structure for social networking that I can see actually functioning. You have some subset of it on Twitter, putting people in your Twitter circle or whatever. But it's, it's, it's the most natural way to, to, to, to, to layer your relationships. We do it in real life. Like you, you have a closed circle. You have a circle outside of that which you don't tell your inner secrets to, but you kind of have that ride or die group or the ones you call when you need help or somebody to talk to. That's, that's the inner circle. And then those circles expand. And then I was thinking the other day about Tim Burner Burner Sleep Project, I think it's called Solid with, with the, the pod technology where, where you have your party, connect that to services and allow that to kind of access different parts of that data set you have in that pod. So you know, allow Twitter or X or Instagram or whatever to connect to that pod and, and that's, that's kind of how you keep ownership of, of your own data. I think that's an interesting thought because we're going to see a convergence again I think because there's too many social networks, there's too many platforms to communicate. And I, I just recently took the first time And I think 10 years, a couple of months off and all I've been doing is, is reading and researching and gathering and kind of preparing to put a lot of that out there. And I was like, okay, let's go back to Twitter. And I had that Twitter account since 2008 because I lost my first one and everything I have in my feed now is promoted Content creator. I woke up at 5am, ran 10 miles, ate an Apple, what are you doing to succeed? Kind of posts and that's not what I signed up for. It was kind of, when I got on Twitter, I think it was just after they shut down the Guerrilla News Network, which was one of the first kind of crowdsourced micro blogging blogging platforms for free speech and kind of that, that feeling you had in the beginning when we were, we were on Twitter and then that with what's happening with now with, with, with A.I. i think we're, we're at a crossroads or we're moving so fast into this intersection that we have to know which way we're going to turn. We can't stop to decide. There's, there's no chance. There's a, it's like what's that movie called with all the spectacular death, Final Destination. There's a, there's a semi baggy unsecured reverb on it and, and if we don't decide if it, it's, is it artificial intelligence or is it intelligence augmentation? Like is it making us better or is it replacing us? Because that's the fear among most of the people I talk to is like, to have a job in five years. And I think, oh, go companies to do what they do. Sorry.

No, no, carry on, carry on.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not going to take this for too long. It's like, this is a passion. Passion for me. And I just wanted to say one thing, and that's when we're talking about this, and I was in a space like this a couple of days ago. There was 250 developers talking about how agents are going to communicate together and how to solve asynchronous communication, communication with humans, delegation of tasks, and how all of these different AI systems are going to work together and the agents that we are going to spawn on them. So it's like, it's so multifaceted. And then it was just one last thing. And I don't know if you covered it already, it's just. I think I was listening to a podcast by Diego Forte on building a second brain and personal knowledge management, and it was just one thing that stuck with me, and it was a phrasing he had about his father was an artist, and he said. What was it called it again? Borrowed creativity. That is what AI or LLMs or midjourney or whatever is. To me, it's borrowed creativity. Yeah, you can say that it's copyrighted work and whatever, but if I go to all the museums in all of the world and then paint the picture, that's borrowed creativity. Because I'm going to look at the brushstrokes from Van Gogh, and I'm gonna look at how Michelangelo drew the human physique and stuff like this. Right. So there's. There's a mindset we need to change around it, and. And there's a lot of uncovered ground that's going to be hard to tackle fast. Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm going to give. Give time to somebody else.

Yeah, I appreciate you for chiming in, Rebel. And just again, to reiterate in case some of you didn't miss it before, the purpose of me organizing this panel, and by extension everything I do, is to really introduce a layer that's 0 friction and 100 function. And what that means, effectively, is that I'm not close minded to debates and to hot topics, but I keep it to what's essential and important, which is how do creators thrive in this newly introduced ecosystem? Because. Because as I've mentioned earlier, this is the oppenheimer moment.

Right.

We've moved away from a time before AI to now, a time pre post AI. And that's going to introduce the layer of complexity and that will demand a lot of problem solving from just about any, anyone involved. And I think that's more important in the grand scheme of things, specifically because so much of the industry that are killing it right now, they revolve around creative labor. Gaming alone makes more money combined than film and music industry put together on a yearly basis. And that's just gaming. So don't, don't, don't forget about, you know, the content creator Space and the YouTubers and the substackers and everyone who publishes content independently. That's a whole other thing that generates billions of dollars in revenue every year. So I really do think that there's room for improvements here. And this is really aimed at getting creators of many backgrounds to brainstorm about what's essential in terms of addressing these issues. Robert, you got your hand up.

Yeah, I was just going to jump in on that. I mean, truck driving is the number one job in America. America, it's 1.3 million. People do that. And we all know that truck driving is going away as a career in the next 20 years. Right. My car is self driving and that's coming to tech trucks as well. And so we do need to have a discussion somewhere else about policies, whether we do guaranteed minimum income or retraining. But we need an answer to that as a society and we don't have one yet. So there is a problem there. On the other hand, I'm seeing the people who are using AI are becoming more and more creative. Programmers are doing more work than they used to do because they have AI. Writers like me are doing more work because we have AI. Artists are doing better stuff and coming up with new storytelling because they have AI. And so I see a whole bunch of new jobs coming which will help fix this problem. But they're on the other side of the, of the, of the path, right? There's going to be people who get hired just because they know how to do AI. Lots of you are going to get hired to do performance art in, at conferences and things like that because you can create things very, very quickly with this new tool set, right?

Yeah.

And I feel like giving opportunities back to the people that are creating them. For me, at least it makes sense. And I really do think that right now the ecosystem has evolved so quickly that it's not exactly certain who fits where. But what I will say though, you know, based on My observation, over the past several few years or so, by far the minority, most accepted tech in terms of what's been going on progress wise, has to be chatgpt. Like all, when all is said and done, they're the king of AI right now because they're the ones that have managed to introduce a layer of friction that is so low that it's basically an existent. And that's a big deal. A lot of people that typically would not talk to you about tech are now talking about it. Even your old grandma over here will tell you about how they've used Chat GPT to answer some boring email and what have you. That's huge. And a lot of, a lot can happen as we address these things moving forward. And I think, for me, at least as someone who thinks about the policy angle, if this is something you're passionate about, you know, get your congressman on the phone and tell them about your concerns. Because most recently, a cohort of artists have done so. You know, they've put together a panel and they've held a hearing publicly with these folks in charge of putting together laws and ensure that these technologies are being implemented correctly. I don't have all the answers, and I really, really don't think that anyone individually has it all either. It's really going to come down to collaboration and more importantly, sustained collaboration. And what that means is for an environment to create sustained collaboration. In my humble opinion, it is important to have a place of congregation so that people can stay up to date and be able to communicate, communicate freely and exchange ideas and do all these things that are critical in terms of enabling communities worldwide to thrive. So, Mind Grenade, you're up next.

Yeah, thank you. I think that AI tooling is really like a bridge to the future. It is like equipping all of our brain waves with like a paintbrush. Like, what do we want the future to be? And I think there's a lot of concern here, right, because when we think about some jobs like Robert mentioned, like truck driving, like, we don't need drivers for the trucks anymore. I mean, when you think about, like the autonomous vehicles, that is going to be the future, everything will change. But I think the jobs that we do today, many of them are out of necessity. And when our needs change, we can start to think about other things. We can start to use tools like you mentioned, like Chat GPT. I really see that as a, you know, bridge to the future, using tools like that or like the concept behind it to solve really complex human problems. Now, I, I work in Aerospace and so you know, we're trying to make life multi planetary. If you, if you will explore the stars. This type of tooling is going to help us do that in a way unimaginable. It takes an absurd amount of resources to do it in the way we do it today. And I would say that, you know, the, the company that I work with has certainly optimized this in an unimaginable way already. But this tooling will help us solve a lot of I think important equations. It will answer questions, you know, I think about like the Fermi Paradox, like are there aliens or are there not? I think this tooling is really going to change life as we know it. It may even be like the Great filter to humanity. But you know, this does not come, as you mentioned, without great concern because we have to implement this well, and as you said as well, this really not one person that has the answers like how can we do this without like a doomsday scenario? And, and this, you know, much in the, the case of, you know, like the Oppenheimer story could result in a doomsday scenario. Though of course I would say a little less directly as opposed to, you know, making bombs obviously are used for destruction. But just wanted to share a few thoughts on the topics.

Yeah, and thank you for sharing. And you know, to, to further clarify my thoughts by referencing Oppenheimer, I'm by no means implying that the age of AI is somehow going to cause mass extension. And if I've implied that, my apologies, I, I'm, I'm more so saying it as a way to emphasize the importance, importance of the different eras of humanities we're moving into. Because for those of you who need a little bit of refresher from that Oppenheimer era, they've gone from the, the same lifetime that someone that's lived in the 1900s to the 1990s, that in that same lifetime we've gone from doing ground based warfare with rifles and tanks and whatnot, to creating the atomic bomb. That's a huge leap to be making forward and I highly recommend you read the book about Oppenheimer to really color your perspective about what's currently happening similarly in the AI space. Because I really don't think people understand the gravity enough of what's currently happening and the implications of that. Which is why I'll always urge people to really get informed and do their research first and foremost before they get involved at that ground level of impacting policies and whatnot. Because from, from my vantage point, it seems to me that the main problem that's been going on and still going on is that there's a disparity between the 1% and, and the 99%. And in this case the 1% would be these corporations, right? They're getting our money and our data and they are monetizing it in crazy ways and they're making huge profits. And yet the, the return on the user is fairly minimal, if not inexistent. So I do think that AI is introducing an Oppenheimer moment, where for the first time and probably ever, we're finally able to step to the table and actually advocate for ourselves that way, whether it's via content creation or via building tools that further enable us to interface with the Internet in new ways with, you know, chat, GPT agent and stuff like that, that's. That all of that combined is a big deal. So I really hope that some of that conversation has really put the bug in your ear as far as, you know, where the focus should be and in terms of what you do as a creator or even as a user moving forward. Next hand up, it's Rebel. Go ahead, man.

Thanks. I'm going to keep it short now, Robert, you mentioned that it's ubiquitous universal basic income. It's, it's taxation of automation, robots and algorithms, or AI or however that model is going to look. It's the only way this really doesn't turn into an Upheimer moment. I think, I think his name is Martin Ford. He wrote a book where he uses, Sorry, English is not my first language. I think it's analogy imagery for what's happening. And I've been looking back at the Industrial revolutions, like from the very beginning until now. And we're starting to define the sixth Industrial Revolution going on right now with AI. But the problem is we're not finished with the fourth. And the fifth is defined as the sustainability revolution, like how we take better care of the planet and build more sustainable production models and stuff like this. And then we have the sixth one, which is AI, and we're kind of in the midst of three revolutions trying to figure out which way we're going to go. And I think there's no way outside of actually going after that 1%, because in his analogy, he talks about lights in the tunnel. So just close your eyes. Imagine a long, long tunnel. There's millions of lights, right? So for each Industrial Revolution, the light starts going out and they go out like a couple of meters forward for the first one and we bounce back and they come on again. And for a Second one, they go a little bit further down and the, the reason why they're going out is that people are losing their jobs and ability to consume. So the companies that produce products doesn't have customers anymore. And the, the, the ripple effect of this is economic collapse. And like we can talk about how we use the tools right now, but the only thing we're doing is making them better, faster at an insane rate. Like they are teaching each other, we are teaching them and people are putting, like you said, Robert, 100,000 image prompts into image models. And I'm talking to ChatGPT each day and it's changing how I think and how I gather information, how I synthesize it and how I do my research. But that's a separate discussion, especially around ubi, which I really want to be a part of, Robert. So let me know if you set up a space for it.

Maybe. I, I know that it's possible to retrain human beings. There's a school here in Silicon Valley called Silicon Valley 42. It has no teachers, which is funny, and it has no tuition. It's a free school and it took a chef and today he's running a VR class VR company. So I know it's possible to take a non technical person and with two years of training and a little bit of motivation and a lot of hard work, you can switch from a non technical degree area into technical technology. But it takes a very special school to do that, a very special retraining program. And I'd rather do it do that first than ubi because UBI for human beings is really bad. We have UBI in America, the Native American reservations have UBI and it's a dismal place to live. I've visited several of those places because humans lose hope, lose purpose, lose mission. And there's a lot of work for us still to do, right? We don't have robots doing everything. We don't have AIs that right? And build movies automatically. Human beings still need to do that. Even though we have powerful AI tools now to do to help us. There's a whole bunch of things we can do before we have to consider ubi, but that's my own personal opinion.

So I'll actually quickly mention that it's very interesting how a bunch of the films that, that came out a decade or so ago that touched about AI in some way, shape or form, they're a direct reflection of what's happening today. And specifically I'll mention iRobot, the film starring Will Smith and For those of you that have not seen it, the basic plot revolves around Will Smith's character, which he's a cop in that film and he's a very anti robot robot person, right? Like he wants the good old days and he's, he's a man out of place and out of time. Because from his vantage point, robots cannot effectively serve humanity because they're too logical. They don't understand the nuances that it requires to serve us. And that brings a very important question. You know, what happens in a society where the majority of the services being provided is done so by robots? And the layer of security that comes with that obviously is a concern, but I think for me at least it's more so a case of observing whether or not people are going to be able to adapt and cope well in such an environment. Because already as is studies are being published about the effects of social media on the science psyche of Gen Z and how they think and how they behave and it's not looking great, right? We have a bunch of teenagers or children in some cases who are so addicted to their tick tocks and what have you that they're effectively unable to cope without it. I know so because I've tutored kids myself and it's kind of insane how we're being told we're suffering a attention crisis. I personally don't believe so. I think we're suffering a crisis of management where the parents say, for example, that may not know better, will just let their kid, let their kids loose on the Internet and lo and behold they're funneled in and they're not able to pull back. That's a main issue that I think will need to be addressed moving forward. And I think for all of us there's a lot of ways that can be done correctly. And I also think that from the UBI standpoint, as far as I'm concerned, I'm always for some level of systems that enable people to get their fair share. It's really as simple as that because I always said it before and I'll say it again, you know, like to me, at least from a creator's perspective specifically it makes no sense for say a musician to generate a billion stream on an app like Spotify. And by the way, Snoop Dogg has spoken about this, he said on the record that how is it that a musician is able to generate a billion stream and there not able to get back at least a million dollars? You know, where does that money go? And obviously as you do your research you can sort of See where that money goes between the record labels and the residuals that go to the platforms themselves, like Spotify and the App Store, through which these stuff transacts and interfaces, that money just falls into the crap. But I think the argument still holds true though. If, if the, the value proposition that this platform has comes from the users and the creators who make stuff on there, how do they get compensated? That's an important question, I think in the future. And, and that by future I mean now needs to be addressed and need to really be made clear as to where does the pipeline of money goes. So we have a couple of hand up. I'll go to Mind Grenade first and then we'll circle back to Robert and then Rebel. Go ahead. Mine Grenade.

Hey, thanks. I think there is a really great opportunity right now for someone or some group of people out there to create some new tooling. I think a lot of the big streaming platforms, if you talk about music in particular, Spotify, Apple music right there, owned by corporations and as you're saying, like the, the creators don't make much money. But I think what's going to be crucial and right now is the time for us to create more tooling that democratizes art of all kinds. And I think something owned, something for the people, by the people, will help people monetize their art in like a small way, build a community. Because I think over the last, you know, at least since I've been alive, art and music, it's been about this path to, you know, quote unquote Hollywood and having a record contract with what's ultimately owned by Sony. And what people tell you is that they end up selling their soul. So I'm really excited to see that innovation come out. There's a lot of people learning how to code like never before. I mean, you can take a Python programming class, you know, virtually for free on like YouTube and you can start with that and start building something. And I think that this opportunity is going to be something that is heavily beneficial to society and we can kind of take the power of art back into our own hands and use it as a creative outlet.

Go ahead, Robert.

Totally, totally agree. Ah man, there's a lot to go on here. You know, we're about to enter a new culture, right? In five to 10 years we're getting glasses, augmented reality glass. I've seen that. I've seen the glasses in R D labs. They're coming. Whether it's coming next year or three years from now or eight years from now, I don't care it's coming in the next, next decade, and when these come, there's going to be a huge new market for artists, for people who perform music, people who create visual. Visuality. And so I'm excited by that. How do you all get paid? That's an interesting question. I mean, while Snoop is complaining about not getting paid by Spotify, Taylor Swift is making hundreds of millions of dollars every, every year selling tickets to sold out concerts. So I, I know that music pays at the high end of the, of the market. The problem is only a few people can get popular enough to fill auditoriums and get people to pay $1,000 to go see them. Right? The book industry is the same way. By the way, most book authors get paid nothing. Some get paid a little bit. That's where, where I was. And some like J.K. rowling, who, who made, you know, very popular books, gets paid millions of dollars, and then her books turns into a movie and she gets paid a lot of money, right? So there got. There has to be a new economy for us, for this new world of working, right? And I believe there will be one. I believe humans are going to design new jobs, you know, because we don't like to sit at home and just collect a paycheck. I know people who can do that, right? Rich? I met the guy who invented Hotmail and he made a lot of money and started working again. I was like, why do you start working again? He goes, because I sat on a beach for two years and it was boring as fuck. And I'd rather create things for human beings because that makes me happy. Right? So if we had a world where robots were doing all of our jobs and AI was doing all of our jobs, we're all going to be sitting at home watching too much Netflix and we're going to come up with something new to do. And it's the AI artists who are showing us the path to that.

Yeah, and I will say on that, on that comment real quick too. A lot of the problems I foresee at some point will revolve around how do people occupy themselves? Because we've seen some warning signs. In 2020, when the pandemic happened, a lot of people had unexpectedly been given a lot of free time and resources on top of that. And a large majority of them got depressed, right? And they did not really know what to do moving forward or how to best make use of that time. I can tell you from personal Testimony during the 2020 pandemic, I was in New York, and that was, by all accounts, one of the most impacted areas by this whole pandemic situation. And at the time I was a working janitor following purposes. I was cleaning restaurants after hours. And obviously the pandemic affecting that job market forced me to think outside the box and having to come up with solutions to address that right away. And a lot of what I started to do was get more serious about my creative work because at the time I was a music engineer and a producer and. And little known fact about that industry, it doesn't pay much if you're not a big name. And I think that rule of thumb applies to just about every creative industry. If you're not someone who's a big deal or has ties to someone who's a big deal, chances are you're not gonna make the big bucks. But I didn't care, right? I just wanted to prove myself in the ring and make things happen. So through networking, making friends, talking to people, people sharing my work, I slowly but surely built a little bit of reputation for myself so that I would make music for people. And that translated into opportunities that led me to the west coast. And I think that the, the key takeaway for me from this whole moment has been to really keep an open mind and to be ready to pivot at any given time. Because. Because I think creators, the best thing or the worst thing rather that a creator can do is be too attached to an idea as to see it through no matter what. It's damaging long term because it's a waste of your time and it's a waste of your resources too, because now you're funneling all that time and energy and it doesn't lead you anywhere. So I really think that creating creators now have an opportunity to effectively reduce the frequency at which they fail, so that they can fail just enough times for them to hit that one thing that makes them the most in terms of revenue or sustainable income and what have you. So that's something I really think about and advocate for.

Right.

Rebel, you're up next.

Thanks. I just wanted to clarify in terms of ubi, I'm thinking as means to actually reschool people or retrain or whatever in an interim. And then I know Finland had a model working around this, but. But yeah, that's, that's a larger discussion. But I think the key takeaway, and I'm so glad you mentioned iRobot because I also watched it the other day and I was like, yeah, this is what I've been thinking last couple of years, is that when everything is artificial, we're Going to seek back to an imperfection. It's like Lauryn Hill. Her best work is not from the studio. It's from the. From the live sessions where she cries, she has a sore throat, but she sings with her heart. That's imperfection. Human imperfection, which, which is what we will seek when everything else is. Is without flaw. And when it comes to protecting the creators, I think I only see mind. I'm not sure what your full moniker is, but that. That creating new platforms that turns the monetization model more than Spotify did and other music platforms to give more control back to the creators. But we're still talking largely about digital content. But there's also the physical part of this. I mean, dinner plates and glasses and rugs and everything. When everything is factory made by machines, will we then seek those little markets? Will we see more of that kind of village mentality going forward? And you know your neighbor who makes that, that, that great liquor, will she be the one kind of selling that at. I'm coming from Norway, we have something here which is a association for farmers. So you kind of hook up to them and then they plan ahead.

Meeting.

Points like large parking lots and stuff, and then they set up shops to sell their produce there. And that, that's. That became a huge thing. And it was also a huge thing during the pandemic. And you were talking about mental health part. I studied that topic for almost a year. There's three interesting things about mental health and digital, and that's loneliness. Loneliness is like hunger we try to feed is actually hunger. We perceive it as hunger and we try to feed it. And when we do that just online, it's like fast food or bad food. It doesn't keep you full, it doesn't give you nutrition, it gives you some satisfaction, but it doesn't feed your soul, so to speak. And that's why people get caught in a vicious cycle and you distance yourself from real people and you say more and more online. But the problem with that is it doesn't help. It doesn't stop. And the, the flip side of this, which I didn't know until I started the topic, is that we actually see loneliness as contagious. Like that. That that person, you know, who is lonely will be shunned by the group. Because if by association you're seen with the person, you, it will rub off and then you will be kind of outed from the group. So there's so many things about how we're living our life digital. And I think all of the Things that we have today like laptops and tablets and telephones and stuff. My son asked me what's the next big thing that's coming on? Phones? And I said that's not interesting at all. The phones have to go, the computers have to go away and we have to kind of find another way to compute and get the information and interact because we have to get our eyes up and see what's around us. And I think that that's the call to change. That's coming soon. Thank you.

So before I pass it back to Migrant, I'll mention that testing one of the elements that you've yourself talked about, which is the, the physical component of art, although it was not touched upon, I think, at least in my mind it's a bit of a no brainer in terms of what it takes to put that work out there. Because when you mentioned that we're back to square round, square one, one, right. How does someone who say creates pottery for a living, how do they find their market? Chances are they'll have to be online at some point in the pipeline. And what that means is they'll have to create content about what it is that they do for the marketing purposes. So I really do think that as we move forward as a society in terms of advertising our services, which effectively is what we do in the grand scheme of things, regardless of discipline, as we advertise our services to people, there's going to be in my mind a way to standardize all of it so that people that predominantly offer VR stuff can find their crowd and people that offer AR stuff can also find their crowd and so on and so forth. And I don't recall if you were there during, during that conversation, but one of the posts that Robert put out there dealt with a pair of glasses that were able to in real time transcribe a conversation. I first found out about it through Tick tock and that's what I mean in terms of, you know, the, the, the necessity along the way to interface with the Internet, it's always gonna be there regardless. And, and if there's any sign right now, based on the behavior of people in major cities, most people to my knowledge, don't really go out of their way to shop for things publicly anymore. And that's due to in no small part to Amazon. And they're making it so convenient to access services in the comfort of your home. You just press one button and whatever you want to order gets to your doorstep. Obviously there's that silent minority for the most part, who will go out of their way to go to these mom and pop shops and that will go to the flea market and stuff like that. They still exist and likely still will. But the majority of the information highway will be based online. And as such there will be a necessity to come up with ways to address the issue that comes with having that much information flow available at one particular intersection of the Internet. Because the main problem for me has always been the reach. Right. You know, there's this idea that once you put your stuff out there, it's not about how much you put out, it's about who sees it. So I really do think that, that social media platforms have a major role to play in this. And if they want to be on the side of creators, they'll enable them to reach the people that they intend to quicker and with zero friction. So that's my take on that. M Grenade. Go ahead.

Yeah, there's a couple things.

Just put in one thing. Sure. Sorry. No, no, go ahead. Mine. Right.

Okay, thanks. So there's a couple things that I want to mention that I think could be interesting to this audience. And one is the fact that.

AI.

Machine learning models, any kind of programming, it can't replicate the natural variants of biological life. And I think that that's going to be something that is going to be incredibly valued as we move on because we're going to be able to solve, you know, many of the things that have, you know, woed humanity for, you know, since the, the early days of our existence. And it's going to be definitely a new world that we're not expecting. But I think that without this, the, the variants can't be reproduced. So I think that we are going to have to consistently feed these models like the, the output of our natural variants in order for them to not just have like what I would kind of equate to like a heat death, like the heat death of the universe where everything just equalizes and becomes the same, same. So I think that the early start of these models, it's going to be heavily reliant on our natural variance and to our knowledge today, this is impossible to replicate. So do we create a, a society where it equalizes and everything is the same and uniform and becomes perfect? Is that where this ends or do we truly use this as a tool to advance our civilization? And obviously the latter is much more appealing to me and I think many others. So something to think about when we talk about, you know, kind of living in this perfect world. I don't know how long something like that will take because the timelines with this are pretty unpredictable. But it is, you know, I think, a threat to how we build these models and how we look at this tooling moving forward.

Okay, so we're going to hit the top of the hour for the limit of the space I can host myself. Before we wrap all of this up, I want to deeply thank all of you for coming in and sharing your insights on the panel. Specifically you, Robert, appreciate you for coming through and sharing some of your insights as well. And yeah, definitely give everyone here a follow if you can. Also, I do encourage you to check out the substack I have built up. That's really where the core of my research is based. You won't find it here on Twitter. So if you care to look into that, the record of the spaces I put together and so on, it's available in the link in my bio. Just click that or in the linked tweet in the top of the space currently. And now would be the opportunity for the people on the panel or last arrivals, if they care to do so, to give one last closing statement and we'll go from there. I love you all.

I love the work that I'm seeing this community do. I'm loving watching the tools iterate and get it better at a fast rate and so keep it up.

Cool.

Hope, go ahead.

Yeah, this, it's kind of rare to have these kind of wonderful spaces nowadays. So you definitely want to follow Wiz and the wonderful people that spoke today at this wonderful panel. And yeah, thank you guys for coming by and don't forget to stay hydrated and yeah, happy dreams and happy days for you.

Yeah, it's really hot nowadays. Also, for the people here that are curious about YouTube specifically, Robert has a YouTube channel that they have set up. I highly recommend you do that and check out what they're doing there. Personally, very interested to see what they do in the YouTube creator space. And for those of you that use Discord specifically, there are communities you can join to further that conversation. If this is something you care about, just shoot me a tweet or a message and I'll follow up with you. That way I'm gonna do it on a one by one basis. Keep that in mind. So if I don't answer right away, that's not. Not because I don't want to, that's because it's time consuming. So yeah, really appreciate you guys once again for coming in, taking the time and the energy to share. That was a very excellent space and I'm gonna be hosting another one of those. I'll announce it on Twitter publicly so you'll see it. So, yeah, keep an eye out for that, and I will catch you around on the next one. On that note, this was Wiz. Thank you so much, folks. See you again on the Internet. Thank you again on the Internet.