Scott Duffy interviews Jason Reid, Partner in CEO Coaching International and College Works

Well, hi, everybody. Welcome to Microsoft Launch the program. And this is National Entrepreneur Week, presented by Microsoft. I'm Alan Taylor from Inc. Magazine, Inc. Radio. Scott Duffy here, the author of the book Launch. And it's all good because this is all about helping people launch their businesses using some of the stories from our guests, like Jason Reed, co CEO of National Services Group and friend of Scott Duffy. So, Scott, take it from there.

Here's where I want to start. I want to start by talking about how I met Jason, because I think it's just. It's such an awesome story and it speaks to a topic that we're going to focus on today, which is relationships. And so when I was a freshman in college, I'm 18 years old, I get some advice from a family member. And the advice was simply, when you get to school, when you get to college in your first week, go to the career counseling department and get to know the people who run that career counseling center and tell them that what you want is an internship the following summer and, like, get on their radar for, like, a great internship. And at the time, you know, it was companies like Microsoft, right? It was companies like IBM, it was companies like Xerox. That's who you wanted to work with. Well, about six months later, I built a relationship and I got a call and the gentleman that I spoke to said, you have to come right down. Which I did. And I said, so who is it? Which one? Which one of these big companies? And he said this, he said, college Works Painting. And I'm like, college Works painting? I said, what are you talking about?

What's that?

And he said, no, he said, this is a company that's committed to teaching young people how to be awesome entrepreneurs. And I went and I worked and I spent a summer working for College Works. And my boss at the time was my good friend Jason Reid.

A lot, a lot of years ago, it was Scott had hair.

I did, I did, I did. But Kevin's gonna try and fix that with, yeah, the whole piece. The whole piece. But I think what is really amazing is 25 years later how we're so close and such good friends. How you're my coach as a CEO and I love you to share a little bit about collegeworks and your business and share with our entrepreneurs.

Thanks very much for having me today, guys. This is great. I'm a big believer that relationships are everything. And that's one of our mottos in the company, in both our companies, College Works Painting and Empire Works, which is our more grown up year round. Construction business. And I really believe that. I mean, I've told Scott's heard this many times and now this is probably the first time for you. But I'm the luckiest guy I know because I get to wake up every single day and work with my best friends. And that's how I kind of approach business. And I look at it and go, I think way too many entrepreneurs are taking a look at their relationships as being transactional. What can I get from that employee? What can I get from that customer? How can I win? How can I make sure that I'm going to come out ahead? And that is just not a long term strategy that works for anybody. If you're going to be transactional in your nature with your customers, you're going to end up on Yelp and not in a good way. And that is a big part of our world works right now.

Right.

And, and if you're transactional in nature with your employees, you're going to have massive turnover. No one's going to want to be around you and it's just not going to work out. So when I look at things, I say, how can I actually spend my time making sure that I am helping people out? What can I do to make a difference in people's lives? And I also, when I'm hiring, I'm looking at going, I want to make sure that if this is someone I'm going to be talking to on a regular basis, that I can actually spend time with them, that I want to spend time with, that I want to look forward to spending time with them.

And you know, this is a theme that I'm seeing in all great leaders, is that they care about the people that they're working with. More so than just pawns in a chess game.

Sure, yeah.

And I like that. I already like what I'm hearing.

So a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to figure how are they going to get out of their business, what's next for them, how do I build this business so I can sell it? That's a bit of what, you know, we see so much of it on TV now and cnbc, short term, short term tech companies and stuff. It's how do I build and sell it? I really don't spend any of my time focused on that. I spend my time on if you build it, they will come kind of thing. And I don't really care if they come. I really care about am I enjoying myself, am I spending time with people I want to spend time with and am I making a difference in people's lives. And I think if I go through my life making a difference in my employees lives, if I spend the time, if they call me up and we're chatting about a work issue and I can just sense there's something wrong, I, I'm gonna table that work issue that can go to another day and let's talk about what's going on in your life. And that's why I've been partners with the Same partners for 25 years and got long term employees, been around for a lot of time. And not to say that this is the kind of place you can go and hide for the rest of your life because everybody who knows me, knows me, knows that this is a high performing culture and if you don't perform, you're gonna have to go, there's probably a better place for you.

I was gonna say high performing culture. When most people think, you know, they hear college in painters, they probably think this is a relatively small business. I just wanted to say this. Collegeworks Painters has almost 500 employees and during your peak season, I think you have around 2500 students that are painting homes.

So College works operates in 26 different states. And if you have a kid knocking on your door in the summertime, say we want to paint your house, likely one of our folks. And if you like entrepreneurs, give them a shot, you know, let them in, let them do an estimate for you. These are amazing kids. Part of what I love about the business I'm in is that we are taking young, really young people, 19, 20 years of age and showing them how to be entrepreneurs, how to run the branch of that business. They get to run the whole thing. They go do the marketing, they do the sales, they run the production as you know.

Sure, sure, sure.

And they actually, they have to make a profit doing it. It's an awesome business and it's a great experience. The cool thing that we have going now is I'm actually going back to all of our X or past people and I've got a podcast I'm launching called Life After College Works where I'm going back and interviewing a bunch of these folks that have actually gone and created some amazing businesses, right? We've got people who built public companies and just amazing lifestyle businesses. And it's because of those long term relationships that I'm able to do that.

And the genesis of all of that came from painting houses.

People spend, in my opinion, way too much time focused on whether the business they're in is the most exciting business on the planet. Am I in that new hot tech startup? Am I in that new whatever it might be? I don't care what I'm in. I really don't. I care who I do it with. Because the reality is you don't have control over the situations you're going to run into in business. All the challenges you're going to have, you don't have control over those. The only thing you have control over is who you decide to fight those battles with.

It's funny you say that, because I have a 19 year old son and he wanted a job this last summer and I took him out onto the balcony of our office. I have a beautiful office. And some of the paint was peeling and I said, all right, I need you to paint the rails. We own a television production company and a radio production. He wanted to be something different. And I said, this is what needs to be done right now. And entrepreneur has to do everything.

Absolutely.

So let's start here.

You know, I have to ask you about partnerships.

Sure.

Because you've been longtime partners with several friends and for a lot of companies that's a recipe if you're, it would seem, for disaster.

Yeah, it has been for some people.

So what's your formula for building a great partnership?

That's a great question, Scott. And it's something I'm very passionate about because it falls into relationships.

You have to invest the time. Too many people jump into a partnership in business without thinking about the fact they might be tied to this person for the rest of their lives. So it's kind of like getting married. In fact, it's just like getting married because when you split up, they get half your stuff.

Right.

I would know. And sometimes more. Right. And you've got. And you're gonna be spending as much time with your business partner as you're probably gonna be spending with your spouse. So for us, it's a function of making sure that we're talking every day. It's open lines of communication and spending that time to have the extra, you know, we go away two or three times a year, just us as partners. And it's, you know, you want to think it's gonna be the strategic planning. It's all great. We're gonna make sure we nail it all down. You know what, A lot of times just hanging out, chatting and talking, building the relationship. And we've done that for years. And the final piece of this, and this is the piece that most people really screw up on. You have to learn how to forgive. Wow. Right.

Yeah, that's powerful.

Because that's powerful. Mistakes are going to happen. People are going to screw up. And this. And this isn't just with your business partners, this with your employees and your family. And your family. If you don't know how to forgive, you're going to be horrible, horrible at relationships.

Wow.

I mean, that's really what it comes down to.

It's a huge, great piece of advice.

It really is.

Sometimes the simplest things like this in business apply across the entire spectrum of your life, right?

I believe it does.

When you're in a partnership, particularly a partnership with close friends or family members, how do you hold each other accountable?

You hold each other accountable by actually sitting down and having those open lines of communication the same way as you would with your marriage. It's like, here's the part of life I'm going to do. Here's the part of life you're going to do. Let's have an open conversation about did you actually do it?

Have you ever been in a situation where you had a business partner and you were holding them accountable and they weren't living up to their end of the bargain? And how do you deal with that?

Well, that happens all the time. Right? Because I was going to say.

I mean, look, every one of us has an employee, a partner, a spouse, a kid who bites off more than they can chew.

Right?

Right. And they all say, I'm going to do this. I'm going to make sure it happens. I promise you it's going to happen. And they don't do it. Well, all you can really do is have the conversation where you sit down and say, let's figure out what went wrong here. How can I help you so this doesn't happen again? Did you bite off more than you could chew? Should you put your hand up and say, I don't know what I'm doing? I said I did and I don't. Did you just not want to do this? Is that why it didn't happen? Get asked the questions to get to the root of the problem or the issue, and then let's have an adult conversation about why this is not good for the business, the partnership, the marriage, whatever it might be.

Yeah. And I'll add one thing to that. Don't be angry when that happens. Because if you're angry, the angry energy is what they feel.

You're absolutely right.

And I think that's a part of being mature business person.

If you want a long standing, I.

Haven'T learned it yet, but if you.

Want a long Standing relationship with anyone. Anger is not a part of it.

Yeah, right.

It can't be.

It goes back to that forgiveness thing.

You got to forgive. You got to understand. I mean, any one of us messes up every day over something, just ask my wife. Right. I do it all the time.

Or your kids.

Or my kids.

Yeah.

So, I mean, at the end of the day, you've got to treat it all the same way.

I love it.

You've got to be authentic in your business life and your personal life. You got to be the same in both ways.

Yeah. Again, you'll see this theme happening in business, that it is not just how you are in business, it's how you are with your entire life using the principles that are kind of built into us as human beings and not forgetting them, kind of returning back to them as a mature person. And when you're running a business, it's the same as running your family. Absolutely. Yeah.

You know, one of the things that often comes up with entrepreneurs is that they feel so unbalanced in their life. And when you talk about relationships and how does balance fit into your formula for success?

Well, for me, it's probably when we talk about what I believe are the two key foundations of being successful in business. It's relationships, and it is balance. And what I find way too often. And again, I'm a little older than some folks, so, I mean, I was in EO back 25 years ago. I've been in YPO. I'm in WPO now, which means I'm really old, I guess, and I've been investing. I've seen so many people go through this whole idea of I'm going to be an entrepreneur, and then they focus on what I think is the wrong thing, is how do I get my exit to happen. Everybody wants to talk about their.

The wrong philosophy.

This is building a great business that generates cash flow.

And when they focus on their exit, they end up focusing on how hard I have to work to exit in this timeline and all the stuff I have to accomplish to exit in this timeline. And therefore, balance goes out the window.

Yeah. Right.

So when I take a look at balance.

Interesting point. Very interesting point.

Yeah.

So when I take a look at balance, I'm thinking, for me, it's possible. I mean, if you take a look at most athletes, you can overtrain.

Right.

Scott, you're an athlete. Yep. Yep. I mean, how you know that point when you're over pushing your body too.

Hard and you're over training, and what.

Do you do when you Overtrain.

Take some time off.

Wait a minute. He's a synchronized swimmer.

Oh, synchronized swimmers are athletes too. He doesn't have to wear the cap, which is.

Sorry, Scott, I'm getting it from all ends today.

Don't invite your friends to a show.

So what do you do? You take some time off, right?

Take some time off.

So I view life going, okay, if you work too much and too hard and all you do is focus on just that part of life is business, then your entrepreneurial muscle is over trained and it's stressed. And what you really need to do and what I focus on doing is spending my time having other stuff in my life that allows me to escape that little vacation. So for me, I love to play guitar and I love to sing when I play guitar. And I'm bad at both of them. Just ask my wife and kids.

So.

But I'll do that for.

That's why you have a teepee. Jason literally has a teepee in his backyard, right? That's why you have the tp.

Yeah, but you know what? As far as I'm sure I'm paying for the house. I'm going to play that guitar right in the center of the living room and everybody's going to have to listen to me. But that escape, right, for 25 minutes is important. That time to go out and meditate for 20 minutes in my TV is important, right? Taking a nap might be important. But that escape, if you don't take the time to do that, you're not going to be balanced if you don't take the time to spend time with your kids. And you know this, Ellen, you've got four kids. If you don't focus on them, what happens in 10, 15 years? You built this company, you sold it, and you don't even know your kids.

And that reminds me of an interesting story I heard the other day. This little boy goes to his dad, he says, dad, how much money do you make an hour? And he says, well, it's none of your business. And the little boy says, please, dad, I got to know how much money you make an hour. And his dad said, Well, I make $100 an hour. Why? He says, well, I need to borrow $50. And the dad says. The little boy says, no, I'm not going to loan you the $50. I'm not going to loan it to you. And then the little boy walks off to his room. He's all upset and kind of sad. The dad thinks, well, maybe I was a little tough on him. So he goes back into the room, and he says to his son, he says, here. He says, I'm going to give you this $50. I'm going to loan you this money. He says, now, what you were going to do? What were you going to do with it? And the little boy gets the money from under his pillow, and he's counting his money. And his dad says, wait a minute. You already have money. What did you borrow that money from me for? He says, because I want to buy an hour of your time, Dad. I want to spend dinner time with you, and I want to buy an hour of your time.

Wow.

Right?

Wow.

And so our children. It's like the song that hits me the hardest is Cats in the Cradle. Oh, yeah, right. Absolutely. And it's like our children and our families are so important to them. You do have to make sure that you have that balance you talk about. And as an entrepreneur, I find it hard because my job takes me all over the world, and I have a fun job, and I take my family with. My wife complains, you know, every time we go on a vacation, it's always work. And I go. It takes a few hours to do what I do. And then we get to go to Hawaii or Paris.

Absolutely.

But there's still. There's. You know, like you said, I think that conversation is really important. So, I mean, first of all, thank you. I'm learning a lot from you today as a fellow entrepreneur, and I hope that you guys are, too.

Absolutely.

Because at the end of the day, it's these stories that are going to help us all to be able to continue on our quest as being entrepreneurs.

You know, And I think it's a combination of balance and this idea of balance and blowing off steam. And there's a story I always love to share where a few years ago, I was leaving. I was leaving Necker Island, Richard Branson, Solomon. And we were at this little airport on our way out, and I walked across and said goodbye to a gentleman named Steve Ridgeway. And he ran Virgin Atlantic Airlines. And at the time, the economy was in rough shape, and it was really hard on the airlines. And I remember I walked up to him and they said, hey, Steve, I have a question. What's the most important part of your job? Like trying to get some kind of inside kind of thing. And I'm thinking the answer is going to be leadership or management or hiring, grant, whatever it is. And his answer was exercise. I said, Steve, I said, I'm surprised you said exercise. He said, I'm disappointed you're surprised. And in that same day, I got in another flight and I was with David Kush, and David was the CEO of Virgin America. And I said to David, I said, I just had the craziest conversation with Steve. I said, dave, I asked him, what's the most important part of your job? And he looked at me dead on. He said, well, that's easy. Exercise. And I said, why? And he said this. He said, when times are tough, you've got to be the toughest person in the room. And if you're not taking care of yourself, if you're not finding that balance, if you don't put good food in you, right, if you don't move, it's impossible to be just that.

I love it. I love it.

Let me add one more thing to this, guys, is that. And here's the piece that a lot of people miss out on. Again, you can't be balanced unless you have great, solid relationships in your business.

Right? Right.

Because in order to truly balance as a CEO, Scott, as you know, between National Service Group, Empire Works, and CEO Coaching International, sure, I coach 12 CEOs in my spare time because guys like me have lots of spare time. But the reality is, why do I have lots of spare time? Because I've got lots of amazing people to work with me, and I know how to delegate to them. And not to say that. I just give them stuff, say, go do this, because I don't want to do it. I give them stuff that they want to do. I'm empowering people to be better than me. I'm saying, I'm going to trust you to take this division of my company and run it. And I'm here when you need me. I'm not gonna micromanage you. I'm not gonna be on top you. I'm gonna want to know what's going on. I'm gonna support you. I'm gonna coach you, I'm gonna help you, and I'm gonna forgive you when you screw up. Wow.

That last part was a zinger for me.

And you know what?

So what we learned from all this? Forgiveness. Really important, even in business. Yeah. Where can people find out more about Jason Reed?

Well, you can go to collegeworks, calgeworks Painting and CEO Coaching International, another great place.

Excellent. Well, thanks for being with us, Jason. Appreciate it. Appreciate your time. Scott and I, we're going to be doing a whole bunch more of these great programs called Microsoft Launch. You can find us msftlaunch. Also, we're celebrating National Entrepreneurship Week presented by Microsoft.