Scott Duffy interviews Lori Taylor: How To Survive In A Crowded Market? Episode 49

Good morning, everybody. Good morning and welcome. Welcome to what now with Scott Duffy. It is so good to see all of you here today and I want to thank you all for joining. I. I cannot tell you. We have so much to share today and I'm so excited to have our special guest today, Lori Taylor. I'm going to tell you about just a minute. But Lori is just awesome and I feel so lucky that she's, she's joined us.

We've got a lot to share with regard to Covid, our new with the event that we have coming up May 21st and 22nd. And I look forward to telling you all about that. So let's kick off this show. Good morning. My name is Scott Duffy and this is what NOW with Scott Duffy, presented by SAP. Concur. I want to welcome you from wherever you're listening. You can tune in each day at 10am Pacific to watch the live broadcast on YouTube and Facebook, listen nationwide throughout the day on Dash Radio or download the podcast. This show is for entrepreneurs, small businesses and those thinking about starting their own company. It's for people affected by this economy. Maybe they lost their business, their job, they were furloughed or they saw their consulting contracts canceled. And for a lot of people, it happened just like that. It's for people asking, what do I do now and how do I come out of this crisis even stronger now? Our focus today is on how to attract and how to convert customers during this crisis. How do you build a tribe? How do you build a following? How do you build a raving fan base? Our special guest today is one of my favorites. Just one of the most amazing people out there, Lori Taylor. Lori started her career working on projects with P and G, Procter and Gamble. She has won the Direct Marketing association gold, silver and bronze awards. She's done campaigns like a campaign for disabled veterans of America that raised over $4 billion, $5 at a time through regular mail. That's like people opening up paper mail. Do they even do that anymore? Incredible. Lori shifted from paper from regular direct mail to digital. She still does direct mail, but to digital. And as a digital digital marketing expert, she's been named by Forbes as one of the top social media influencers in the world. On top of all this, she is an amazing mom. She has a company called Rev Media Marketing, which is billed as one of the top media marketing companies in the country. And she's the founder of True Pet, whose company, True Dog, which she'll tell you all about, sold in an awesome transaction last year and we are just so excited for her. Now, before we kick off today in the news, the number of COVID 19 cases worldwide has jumped to 4.4 million and deaths have now reached 298,000. Now here in the United States, the number of cases is 1.4 million with 85,000 deaths. Now we have got 330 million people in the United States and 85,000 people have died from this. That is a whole other topic that we're going to talk about another time. I will tell you this, though. Yesterday for me at least, was a really interesting day. Yesterday I had a chance to get out a bit and it felt so good to get outside, but it was just weird. It was just really weird. It feels like there's such a big vacuum in leadership right now. You know, we have 50 states, 3,000 counties, 19,495 cities in this country, and each one seems to be doing its own thing. When I'm in la, there's certain things I can and I can't do. When I'm home in Newport beach, there's certain things I can and can't do. I seem to always be getting myself in trouble yesterday because. Because I was doing the wrong things in the wrong places. And it just would be so much easier, I think, if we had more of a policy and a set of guidelines, at least in this area that I live that are more universal. And I'm really starting to see things change every day. When I finish this show, what I do is I get on the phone with all of you. I'm talking to folks, I'm texting folks, I'm dming with folks. And I'm really getting a good sense on what the pulses of the marketplace, how people are thinking, at least as it relates to small businesses and to entrepreneurs. And what is really interesting is the questions that people are asking in the dialogue seems to be changing. It seems to be changing for small business owners that were given PPP money that have tried to bring people back. They've tried to bring back their employees, but their employees are making more money being unemployed and they're struggling trying to bridge that gap they want to open. They need the people in order to build the store, to run the store, but they can't get them. And it's putting those owners in a frustrating position, position as well, because those owners now are in a place where they were hoping to get a grant from the government, money that would be completely forgivable, but the money's only forgivable that they received if they follow a specific set of guidelines, including spending 75% of that money on things like payroll. So now they're concerned that that grant is going to convert to a loan, and they're going to be on the hook for that money with regard to zoom and social media and stuff like that. I was going down my feed yesterday, and it just seems like things today are so much different than they were a week or two ago. A week or two ago, when I went to my stream, it looked like every single person was posting live. It was all live streaming. And we seem to be going back to something that looks a lot more like it did a couple of weeks ago. I'm sorry, a few weeks ago. Before COVID Where. Covid, where you have fewer people. Live streaming. You know, this is hard, and it's hard to get people on every day. It's hard to build an audience today because there's so much noise. It's hard to find good content. We're starting to see people that are dropping off from just doing that. And there's a real lesson in that. And it's not just about live streaming. It's about anything that you do in life. What you find is when there's a new space or a new opportunity or a new way to communicate that opens up. It's always the people that get in early that sticking at the longest, even when the customers don't seem to be around, even when the listeners don't seem to be around, but they stay with it over time. And when the rest of the market ends up coming, those are the people that have built the biggest footprint. Those are the people that are the real big winners. So I'll give you examples. Guys like Joe Rogan in podcasting. Joe has been bro podcasting for years. He started to do it when nobody was listening, but he stuck at it. He stuck at it every single day. And so when podcasting became a big thing, he had a footprint, and he was everywhere. And today, he's one of the leaders in the world. You take a look at somebody like Gary Vee. Gary Vee is a guy that went on YouTube and he started to talk, and he was promoting his wine business and things like that, and nobody watched. Nobody was there on YouTube yet, but he did it every single day. And it didn't matter if people were watching or they weren't watching. But over time, a crowd started to build. And as that crowd started to build, great things started to happen. And when the rest of the market really came, what happened was Gary was a big Winner. So, you know, whatever it is that you do, whatever it is that you're trying that may be new to you, even if it, you know, you're not getting the results that you want today, stick to it. Because it does take time. It builds. It takes time to build great things. Now I really don't want to take any more time talking about this stuff today because I want to start talking to Lori. I'm going to bring Lori in here in just a second. Again, Lori Taylor, for those of you who just are, are just joining us. Lori Taylor is amazing. Lori started her work back in the day in Cincinnati with P and G. She was a direct marketer extraordinaire. She has won the Direct Marketing Association's gold, silver and bronze awards. After shifting into digital, she became one of Forbes's top social media influencers in the world. She's run campaigns, amazing campaigns. For example, one for the the Disabled Veterans of America. They have generated over $4 billion in donations, $5 at a time. She is an outstanding mom. She is an entrepreneur. Somehow she balances it all. And just sold a company last year called True Dog that was a total game changer. And we'll ask her all about that. So let me bring her on right now. Welcome, Lori Taylor.

Hello. How are you? I'm so glad to be here.

Well, it's so good to see you.

We don't have salons open yet in Ohio, so it's the best I can do. It's the best I can say. I'm not. Yeah.

So. Okay. I'm not even sure where to start today other than, I guess, other, other than this.

There are a lot of people out there that are, that are watching today that are just trying to figure it out. Right. They've seen tremendous shifts in their business. They may have lost their business. They may have lost their job. They're. They're trying to figure out what to do. And one of the places that they're going first is social media. And it's really noisy. What do you tell these people today? How do you stand out in a crowded market like this? And how over time do you build a following?

You know, these are all like, questions I've actually been pondering watching my feeds because, as you know, I'm on Facebook a lot. I focus my business. True pet referenced earlier. We built everything we built on Facebook. It was definitely a challenge for sure because Facebook likes to change the rules a lot. What's been interesting for me is I've noticed people picking up their activity and changing maybe Abruptly what they were doing. And I get it, you know, out of desperation and fear and, oh, my gosh, I got to get ahead of this. But I think you get to be present what you just said and paying attention to what everybody else is doing at the same time. For me personally, I think it would be very beneficial to go out and communicate better with your current customers than maybe getting super aggressive on your social media to try and attract new customers right now. And it doesn't mean. Don't hear me say that and say, oh, so she's saying there's no opportunity for new customers. Because actually, I think there is an opportunity for new customers right now. And what I mean by that is what I experienced in 2008. We were there, we were both having different experiences. But 2008, and prior to the last minute where it just kind of imploded, I was all excited because I was getting ready to start my new agency. In fact, I had had plans in motion for six months to leave my corporate job of 18 years, earning one well over seven figures a year as a sales rep, basically account director. And I was moving that book of business to take it private to Rev. And I mentioned this to everyone because I was also just had twin boys. Surprise. Twin boys. My new ring. Surprise. So I have five kids, and two of them came when I was 38 years old unexpectedly as I'm trying to start this new company.

So at that time, I think looking back on it, I was probably too dumb to just not retreat, right, and run back screaming. Or maybe I was too prideful because they were trying to cut my commissions, and I had been on great commission my whole life. So I felt that was very unfair. That's why I left. And so it really was an opportunity for me. And so I hope everyone's listening to this, that there is an opportunity for you. And all this because people are willing to make changes right now. People are willing to take a look at their life and be really clear with what they're uncomfortable with. And I don't know if that's happening for you, but even in my personal life, I'm realizing the things that I miss right now are pretty pathetic. Meaning my life, my personal life wasn't rocking and rolling maybe like my business life was, and I was able to see the imbalances in it. So, you know when the only thing you miss is going out to eat, I think that's feedback for you as a human.

And your eyelashes and things like that. So I was like, wow, like, you're not Missing going out in the community. You're not missing going out and doing things and giving back. Like, you're not doing those things because you were so. I was so wrapped up in my business. So the super long answer to your question is.

In that when that happened, I didn't go knocking on doors saying, hey, economy just crashed. Everybody screwed. Do business with me. I basically leaned in to what I felt like people were feeling at the time. So, you know, and right now, every email I gets, Covid this and Covid that and Covid this and Covid that. So it's like almost like you're marketing on a feature, not really talking about any benefits you have to offer other than the fact that you're Captain Obvious, that you want everyone to know that you know that Covid's happening. You see what I'm saying? Like, so I asked myself, I was like, what do you actually try to communicate? And some of these emails, what are you actually trying to do? And I think the reality is that you're either deepening your relationship with the customer you already have, you're reengaging with a customer that you used to have and you want to reengage and give them an opportunity to come back into the family, or you're doing what a lot of people do right now and going, oh, my gosh, I've got to go out and land grab and get a bunch of new customers. Cost money, time, and kind of makes you look crazy on Facebook a bit. And social media, you know, it's like all of a sudden you're hammering your groups and your Facebook groups and come do this and free this and free that and free, free, free, free, free, free, free, free, free. And I'm not sure long term, if that's the message you're gonna be able to sustain. So my question I asked for you, coming from the person who built her company and sold it on the dollar bag offer. Okay, so you're where I'm coming from. Are those right customers for you?

Hmm.

Or is the right customer for you someone who's hu.

That is okay with a free program that you and I both know is pretty watered down to get them into a real paid program? So who are you really attracting? Because the customers you should want to attract are people like myself who do have cash, who do want to reinvent themselves at some level, and you get to charge for that, and you get to own your worth and your value, and you get to attract that. Because here's the thing, Scott, and I'm going to sound Woo woo to everyone. That's fine. For all the people out there sitting on a nine figure exit that thinks this is woo woo. That's the difference between you and I. I have an exit and I'm woo woo. And I guess you're not. And you don't have an exit. And I don't say that to be crappy, but I'm telling you that when I was struggling, I called my good friend Drew Canoli. This was a year and a half prior to my exit and I was feeling down. I didn't have what I mean, I was done. Like, I was like, this is too hard. Remember Scott? I mean, I had a book called Misery Tales from the Middle. I mean, just, you know, horrible where I was mentally and I called you and you know what he told me? And this is a guy that's probably on track. I don't want to speak for him, it might be more but on track to $100 million this year. Started from nothing. And he was in the middle with me and he told me, said, babe, it's not a tactic, it's not a funnel, it's not a new team member. Although great media buyer would help. He said, it's who you be.

And when you look around at your organization, I hope everyone, if they get nothing else from what I say today, look at what's going on in your business and pretend like it's a mirror and take a look at yourself.

So if everyone, your company is running around with their heads cut off like chicken, trying to get activity, going out, running, fear. I wonder if you're doing that at some level. Interesting, you know, and I think that's what people miss is like going inside with who they be right now. And like me, it's like it's a tendency to want to outrun the, you know, Scott, and just start putting a bunch of, you know, let's just get our fishing poles, let's bait them up, let's throw them in the ponds, let's see what hits. And now all of a sudden, who's running who, right? The covet's now running you in a new way than it that it wasn't before. And it's just exasperating. What was already wrong in your business? All I can tell you is what was already wrong in your business has been exasperated by this situation, by the great pause. I call this the great pause. Thanks to my friend Cindy Pat.

That, that is. Gosh, that is so. Man, that is so true. I used to say that because Laurie, you and I Have talked about this like, we all have a superhero power in business. Mine is getting distribution for content. And. And so I've always. I've always been able to. To do these deals where we partnered with these big companies, and we were early stage companies, but, like, you're young and now like, you're part of Fox or this or that. And what I learned is that big brands don't make you better. They just expose your flaws faster.

Yeah.

And I think that this is what you're saying. So Grant Cardone did something. He did something a couple of weeks ago in social media where he went on. He went on his phone and he did a video, and he said, I've lost everything. I'm gonna declare bankruptcy. I got to sell all my things. He did, like, this whole thing. It was like this real shock value video. And so the rumors. I had people calling you, did Grant lose everything? And Grant lose everything? And. And then a day or two later, he gets back on, he shoots another video, and he said it was all a spoof. He said that today you have to lead with bad news. You have to lead with something sensational in order to stand out in such a crowded Covid market. What's your response to that?

Don't make me be bitchy on this.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I read his book, 10x everything, and as a woman.

Who knows you don't have to work that hard to get those kind of results. He and I probably come from a different space. Like, I don't come from the grind, grind, hustle, hustle space. You know that I ride my horses every day.

Right.

I see my kids. So he and I don't come from the same space. And I respect the heck out of him, I expect with the business he's built. I don't know him personally. He's one of the few people I don't know, which I think's interesting, since all my mutual friends know him.

Do you think that breeds trust with your audience?

You know, I've been asking myself. It's. It's really hard to say. I. I understand the point. I mean, it was such a. It was such a. A big example of how to make. Of how to make that point. And it. I think it was effective. I think it. It. It worked.

Effective at what?

It. It was effective at making the point he was trying to make about sensational news being what. What drives the feed and what. What. What creates. At least it proved that. Now trust is a whole different thing. Does that build more trust with your brand? You know, I Heard some things.

Part of that. That he was struggling in his business. So I don't know if that was because when did. Do you know when that was? Was it.

It was. It was probably three weeks ago now.

Okay. So it's probably the same thing. So the question I have for everyone listening, if every single person that saw that first video, saw the second video, maybe that could have gone away, that he's anticipating. The question I would have for his team is, what about the people that never saw the second video? So now you have everyone, like myself, a thought leader who thinks Grant Cardone's business is failing. He's failed that he won't issue refunds, and he's fired most team. Like, I think that until you just said that. I think that's what you were saying.

Yeah, right.

So the question is. But he came back and corrected it. So what does he want out there? Does he want to be the broke guy right now that's pretending to be successful? Because now every ad I see is what I'm going to think. I'm like, well, dude, you're failing. Like, why would I buy your course? Because here's the point. Oh, I love this so much. Thank you. You know, I'm on one about the media. Like, on one, I went to the number one journalism school in the country for broadcasting, University of Missouri back in 1987. That's, you know, when I graduated from high school, when I entered into school. And I come from a place where fact checking is a thing. I come from a place where you call and get comments from people or you get no comment and you keep calling to get someone who does comment. I come from a place that, you know, citizen journalism isn't a thing, and that's what happened to the country. I think everyone needs to accept responsibility. Like my book, I'm getting ready to write you're not real is everyone gets to have personal responsibility so that you're blaming other people on. You're clicking on the ads, you're sharing that. You're clicking on the clickbait title. That's coming from media. You're sharing it. You don't read the articles. I know. I've tested people myself on my field. They don't read the article. I'm like, dude, I put any mother. Do you see that video, Mother's Day video, where they said the hardest job in the world? And they show this guy and he's interviewing people for this job. He's like, it's 365 days a year. You never get A vacation. Super funny. And the people being interviewed are like, dude, that's. And they're all like, like, no, no, no. And at the end, it reveals it's the jobs being a mother, because there's billions, right? And I can already tell because the one guy that loves to hate on my feed, the people in my feed. And I let him stay there because I love contrarians. Everyone's like, block him. I'm like, why? Why do I block him? He's. He doesn't have the ability to trigger me. It's his own shit. Like, I love hearing the other perspective. So he goes on there and he's like, oh my God. And went crazy. And then you see him later, he's like, oh, oh yeah. My mom was like. Because he was like so reactive in his mind. And that's what's going on with people. So I'm working really hard on a program, as you know, to bring back real journalism and media. And John A. Walsh, people can Google him. You know him, he was like basically the founder of espn, not the missing kid guy. He told me in Twitter, when Twitter came out, my husband had a cool application for Twitter. I showed it to John. He, he loved it, but he hated Twitter. Twitter wasn't a thing yet. It was starting to be. And he says, if this takes off, citizen journalism has won. Fact checking will no longer be a thing. Sensationalism will be what happens, because all the regular news outlets with the fact checkers and the whole system to make news actually work are going to have to keep up with the Perez Hilton's of the world and not to call people out. I don't, I don't even care about Politico. I don't care about Breitbart. Like, I don't care about the political. Some of those guys do a really good job, by the way. But they still lowered the bar. And people are reporting things. They're taking their cameras and reporting, you know, pieces of crimes and putting them up there. And it's sensationalism. And so now marketers, we're not allowed to do that, Scott. Like if you do that on Facebook, not what Grant did, but did a clickbait title like, if you love your dog, you must do this. Is your dog's breath killing them? Campaigns that really worked for us, we're not allowed to do them. But Facebook and YouTube, the censors of the world, I guess, on what's, what's reality, they've decided that they are now the police of all things political. And if it doesn't align with this and it must not be true. And they still continue to allow to have these I'm almost done with my rant. These ridiculous clickbait titles. Now. Understand this, guys. As annoyed as you are with the news, that's how annoyed your prospects are with you when you show up. As I have nothing else to sell but some sensational piece. Now, I love what Grant's trying to position, which is good news does lead right now. I don't disagree with what he's saying at all. It's always been that way. It's not new. It was big. It was. All the things that went to the top were negative headlines. But my question to everyone out there is, do you like it when it happens to you? I saw a link from Breitbart. It said that Virginia was going to be shut down for two years. Now, my son lives in D.C. so I was like, what the hell? So I took the time to read it in their own article. They debunk the title. They're like, well, the boss came out.

I want to ask you about that because one of the things that you taught me is. You taught me that because I, I asked you, I said, how do I. How do I create a hook that's effective for my, my target? Okay, how to create a hook and how do I get them in and how to get them to read this? Like, read the sales page, get all and taking action. What you taught me is you said the purpose. I'll never forget this. You said, the purpose of this subject is to get people to read the first line. And the purpose of the first line is to get people to read the second line and the second line, the third line. How as entrepreneurs, can we be really effective at creating those lines that get people to move to the next? What's the art or science behind writing compelling copy?

Well, the bottom line is most people can't do it.

Okay?

Right. I mean, most people are not good at sales. And if you think about what copy really is, isn't it selling? I mean, if you think about it, like, you could call it enrolling if we want to be more positive. But enrolling people and what you want them to do, I think most people aren't very enrolling. I think most people don't have the self awareness. I think most people can't put themselves in other people's shoes very well. And that's what's struggling on Facebook right now. So for me, the reason I'm so good at it is that my ability to my highly Sensitive person like empathy out the wazoo, compassion out the wazoo. My ability to become the avatar I'm talking to and understand the kind of pain that they're in and understand their objections. See, the key to good copy is knowing as going out and talking to all the tire kickers in your life and why your product sucks and why your program sucks. But here's the thing, and we have a mutual friend, and we know who he is, that goes out, gets counsel, but only listens to the people that tell him. Yes. And I think the strongest thing you do if you want to be a copy, if you want to write your own copy because you can't afford a copywriter, I get that. What I would tell people is go take your product and go put it to someone and say, why would you buy this? And why wouldn't you? To people who love you and will tell you, yes, that's great. And the people who like to be contrarian in nature. And I would get that information and then I would make sure my copy addressed every single one of those objections and one paragraph to the next. So if you're a person that thinks, blah, blah, blah, blah, I've been there, I get you, I feel you. Here's what I can tell you about that. And here's the number one copy mistake that people make at the end. It's super simple. So you. Let's start with someone that's overweight. Let's say you have a weight loss pocket. It's an easiest one to do, right?

Okay.

And all the benefits, all the things, and you're like, you know, if you're tired and you're exhausted and your feet hurt because you're so fat and you can't go out and play with your kids because you're so fat and you're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're creating all this pain in my body. Yeah, yeah. Well, this is what I'm. Imagine a life where you can bend over. Imagine a life where you could throw the ball. Imagine a life where you woke up excited before your alarm went off. Imagine, imagine, imagine. Okay. People do okay with that. But you know what the average person then does. So if you don't be fat anymore, buy this. And it's like, dude, we quit talking about me being fat a long time ago. Which is the key to copy. Any good copy takes someone gets them really present to where they're at, because sometimes people don't know where they're at. And then you evolve them and say, look, did you even think this was possible. A lot of people don't think it's possible, Scott, because they don't even know where they're at. So I think the biggest part of copy is to hit someone and meet them where they are.

Wow.

To take them where you want them to go.

Wow. Wow. You know, wow. And then what is the, what's the transition then to the conversion? So do you understand what I'm asking?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, why don't you clarify?

So I don't like.

Is like a lot of people are really good at building a network. They have a great network of people, but they don't know how to then go past beyond the line of being friends or being of service and then asking for the money and closing the money.

It's a self worth conversation.

Say again?

It's a self worth conversation. Most people are not very good at closing and asking for something and say, I've learned this. I'm telling you, when Drew and I had that conversation, I dove into emotional intelligence in a way I never have before. I'm going to be bringing that to the world to teach people personal responsibility so they can have freedom again. When you actually become responsible for all of it. All of it. All of it, then you're free because no one has power over you. You don't have anyone to blame. You don't have a circumstance to blame. You don't have anything like that. So what's happening for people if you're struggling at the end of a really like, if you're not reading your own copy, thinking hell and yes, if I was fat, this would be everything I ever wanted it to be. If you're not selling yourself, you're sure as heck not selling that fat person.

So I totally got. I totally got.

So now at the end of it, what's happening is you're afraid to ask for it because there's a self worth conversation that going on, that doubt that, well, you know, what should I charge? And you guys tell someone who's not confident. You're like, it's just before 97. They go on and on and on about. It's like, dude, you've got to own yourself. At the end of it, you've got to say, I'm here, I'm showing up. I created this. My time is worth something. I am not going to prostitute my brain. And if everyone would stop prostituting their brains, we could all get paid for the knowledge that we have that we're sharing with people. Because reality is, you're never paying Me, a thousand dollars an hour or $5,000, it doesn't matter. You're not paying me for that hour of time. You're paying me for the last two decades that I've dedicated myself to winning and losing with other people's money much bigger than yours, much smarter than you. And you're getting that into my brain so you don't have to go back and do the two decades of bullshit I had to do.

I understand, Laurie. So let me. Let me. Let me try and get. I want to come at this at a different angle. So I'm writing. So we've talked about kind of the subject, and then the first line, the second line. You've talked about meeting people where they are. You've talked about having emotional intelligence. Right. And painting a picture for them. You've talked about. You've talked about going out and talking to people about not just what they like about your product, but having a really open mind, like, no judgment and hearing what they don't like. So you can address all those things in your copy. And then when it's time to get to the sentence, the line that says, click this button or buy this thing. What do you like? What are you thinking? What is that art of that process like there at the. At the conversion point?

I'm. For me, like, I. I like. I. Perry Belcher has a formula, and it's a really good formula.

Yeah.

I'm not a very formulaic person when I write copy, so it's really hard for me to teach other people because it's like my horse trainer.

Yeah.

So good. He, like, has such a natural feel. He didn't learn it like this. He learned it like this. That literally, it's really hard for him to tell you exactly what he's doing to create the result with your horse that he's creating. And that's kind of me as well. And however, what I will tell you is, I think as you build the crescendo, like, one of the things you can do is go out there on Google and see what questions people are Googling. So for us, it was like, why does my dog eat grat poop? Like, that was the number one question. I was like, so if you can go out and Google and find out what questions people are looking for, if you can answer that question at the end, by the end of time, you explain the whole thing. This is what dogs do. This how it goes in at the end. So if you don't want your dogs to eat poop anymore, click here.

People are so afraid of the clothes. Yeah, they just keep, you know, they teach you in real sales that, you know, need any sales, that when you get the sale, when you get the. Yes. I mean, you just grab your crap and you write, I did. I might be like, okay, bye. I'm like, I'll send you the stuff. Because you keep talking and people are like, oh crap, I didn't think of that objection. Or I, I wasn't. They're with. You assume you did your job and ask yourself, if you do your job.

What is the biggest promise you can offer? So like that Frank Kern thing is here right now. So if you want your business launched in 30 days, click here now. So if you want your dog to be a poop free eater, again, free, right? Not to, don't be negative. Be like, if you want to, you want to free your dog from his desire to eat poop, click here. If you want your dog to be healthier, click here. Because at some point I have told myself, okay, the reason your dog eats poop is because they're not getting enough nutrients. And I know this. So how can I explain to you the prospect this story and take you along this story based situation? So at the end you're like, well, that makes a lot of sense to me. Yes, I want your product.

You know, one of the other things, I think the biggest, you taught me so much, but I think the biggest lesson that you taught me was about targeting and avatars. Yeah, I'm not going to tell the whole story right now, but what, what I'll just share is this so we can ground on this. So I had a big list and there were lots of people on the list and you said.

You cannot sell one product to everybody. If you sell one product to everybody, nobody will buy.

Right.

And, and what you taught me is you taught me how to build an avatar and we went and you introduced me to a data person. The data person looked at the list, put the most common characteristics in 100 buckets and buckets and then you said, let me have at it. And you started to build a story and you started, you, you said, okay, so let's take a look at this list and let's start somewhere. Are they male or female? And you chose female. And it was a Christian list. You said, let's give her a name, we'll call her Christina. You said, you kept on going. You said, you know, she's, she's this age to that age. She's, I think she was 35 to 55, but there's she's an empty nester. There's three people in the house, though, so that probably means she's a caretaker, she's a. A pet lover. She's a dog lover. She's a small dog lover. You went so deep that you were able then to craft this story in front of me and, like, you know, five minutes that totally connected with Christina.

How do you do? Because when you started TrueDog, I think that's part of what you did. What is your process for creating your target customer avatar and then talking to that person and telling them a story and building your audience organically?

So research is key. And they. They say list, offer, and copy. The most important thing. They're all equal, right? With. With like, artwork being like 10% of it for me, I mean, I just, just. I. When you get the right person, you don't have to be that good of a marketer. I see you don't. But if you don't have the right person, then you better have a really good offer and you'd be really good at marketing. And when we tell you something to clarify, it's not that nobody will buy.

It'S just that who is that person that buys? Because if you're in the business of just selling one time, you're not going to be in business that long. Like, you need to be in business where there's some LTV longevity, especially if you're online selling online and even a car business, right? You might come every four years, but they work really hard to get you back to their dealership as it, you know, they do the service things every year. They do all the things the same relationship with you. We can learn a lot from the car marketers, actually. But what I want to say is when you write. And I would come back to this, but when you write your copy.

This is what my number one rule is. Only one person per offer. So when I'm writing my copy, I'm not thinking of all of the people that could buy it. I'm thinking of the person most likely to buy it. And then if I get everybody else, great. But I got to pierce that heart. So for me, I can't be writing copy for why does my dog eat poop and talk about everything and be like, oh, you have better coat, you have better this, you'll have better breath. You'll have. Because it's too many benefits. And when you give people too many benefits, it doesn't seem true, number one. And number two, you're not really landing for any one person like a Multivitamin. Who wants that? No one wants a multivitamin, even though we take them. You want the thing, you want the pill, and that's what people want. So for me, I have to find the one person that I said, this is what I say to myself. This is how I visualize what we did with your group. I know exactly. If I had a thousand people in a room and I was on stage and I could have any thousand people that I wanted, any thousand people that I wanted, who would they be? And you know what? It wouldn't be a myriad of people. It'd be like, well, hell, if you can get me a thousand people, 50 and above that are early, that are have children, that have left the household or empty nesters. Have 75,000, and I'll get where I got my stats in a second. $75,000 more in income, have a college degree, like right there, and live in. And I'm not going to say what states because it's kind of the thing, but live in these respective states.

Boom. Yes, please. A thousand of those people. Well, what about if we could get a hundred? Nope, they might buy. But I know these people are. Goodbye. Because if you're talking to someone that you know ticks like four of your boxes, boom, you have a customer for life. If you solve their problem. Do you understand that? You have a customer for life. If you get a bunch of customers where you solve the little problem here and a little problem here, you have someone that's not going to be very loyal to you, that's always seeking a new problem, a new solution, a new thing, and you're gonna have a lot of churn in your business. I think that's why most people. Businesses fail is because if they're aggressive, they spend so much money to get that customer. And then if I ask them to show me their budget to keep the customer, it's like crickets. So, yeah, the most important thing you can do is find your audience. And one of the ways I do it is I just start running ads because guess who's smarter than I am? Facebook.

I'm serious. We ran wide open pixels for a year, almost two years. Because you know what? Facebook wants you to buy more ads. So they do all the heavy lifting. All of a sudden I'm like, oh, we have some trends showing up. So when people buy and then they buy a second time, those are the people you pay attention to. And we started to build our demographic profile off what Facebook was saying. Hey, these are the people that seem to like you. And seem to buy product from you. And then my own CRM said, these are the people that you attracted from Facebook that like you so much, they came back a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh time. How do I build a model off that? Then get away from the wide open pixel and get more targeted? Why would I want to do that? Hyson, when you do a wide open pixel, you have to have a more general offer.

Yes.

When I get narrowed into, hey, if you're like me and your kids have left the house, you have nothing going on. No one listens to you anymore. The best thing you do is get a dog. And that's what you did. Here's how to treat your child, your fur baby, better than you treated your child. And all of a sudden, the biggest mistake that gets made on Facebook, bar none, people get a funnel that converts, and then their agency ends up failing them at some point because this gets stale, and they go to the next agency and the next agency, and guess what happens? Every agency works on their ads, the front end, and no one changes your funnel.

And every funnel. So do you understand? Like, I didn't really have. If you think about this listing in Avatar, I could have gone with the avatar I just told you, but the avatars I really went with were dogs. Bat dogs was one. Senior dogs was another. Puppies was another one. And then a dog with a health problem, like allergies or cancer. And I created my marketing to target those people. So when I was talking about boost me to a dog that I knew had allergies, we think I was talking about anything other than allergies.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah.

Okay. So for the person you've got, the people out there that, you know, they're. They're trying to figure it out right now, and they're trying to get their feet back under them. And one of the things you talked about at the top of the show was, was people hammering their lists with a lot of different things, confusing people. The energy that comes out is really kind of desperate or. Or something like that. What, what. What advice or counsel would you give to these people that are trying everything, talking to everybody right now, trying to. It's almost like throwing as much against the wall and trying to get it to stick.

I'm going to tell you right now. So, first of all, I love. Honestly, I don't know if it's pronounced klaviyo or klaviyo because people say it differently, but it's K, L, A, Y, V, I, O. And that really changed our life when we Started using as a CRM system. We used to use Marrow Post, who I promised I would go out and always say to never use again. So I told Ross I was going to do that. So. So I'm keeping my promise. Not good for startup, not good for people to have a strong tech team and not good for someone who really wants to be smart and quick and nimble with segmentation. So Klaviyo is amazing. I'm not going to run through all of its things because if you go to its website, you can get that much better than I can tell it to you. But I will tell you this, it allows you as a dummy, and I mean a big dummy. Like, I could go on there right now and spin up something that said, could you give me all the customers that purchased X product in the last two weeks but have never purchased this other product? And boom. And then guess what I can do. I can. Hey, Scott, I know you're one of our biggest fans of Boost Me. You've been a customer for over four months because you can do these segmentations. And I want to let you know, I'm just curious, you know, why haven't you tried our blah, blah, blah. I'd like to give you a coupon today because I feel like someone who loves your dog like you do and so committed, you probably just didn't know. So can you drop us a line to let us know if you did know and why you don't want it? And if you didn't know, do you want to try it? Right. And what's really important when you do this is a video. So so many people, Scott, think about it. They're onboarding everyone through videos and personal touch. But then they go to email you and it's like text and there's no video and there's no. And if it is a video, it's like it's always a pitch for something like, like, you know, a bigger thing. But what if your video actually just landed the point that you just wrote in your email for someone who needs that visual to connect with you? So what I would encourage people to do right now is go understand your audience, go look at your email statistics, look at Google Analytics, figure out who's coming, where they're coming, and then get more targeted messaging to them. Like I, I love and I'm not gonna name his name because I really like him and he's really good and it happens to the best marketers. But I mean, I already bought his product, I'm going to his thing and he's emailing me. In fact, I'm like, wait, I thought I bought this. I'm so confused by it. And I realized it's Frank Kern. He didn't care. I'm like, frank, who's running your CRM right now, emailing me as if I didn't buy your product and I'm not active in your group and I'm not doing the thing. But again, do you understand, like that little minor detail? I know Frank. I know he's a genius and I know he doesn't run his own email. So I just figured he didn't get up. Billy Bob Jr. Is over there and slacking. I don't think Frank sucks. I just think it's not present to the details. But that's what people think, though. Other dummies think, oh, Frank, Kurt's so great, but he used me four times after I bought his product. Okay, that's feedback for you as a business owner, but as a human being who's on these lists and it happens to you, Are you any better than Frank? Are you? I mean, at one point, our, our segmentation when you onboard it onto us because someone just didn't think it through, you literally got eight emails from us, like in a period of like, I don't know, nine hours or something. Insane. Most people love our products so much. They're just like, well, they suck at marketing. But it's like, well, no, we don't actually, but we did with you because we weren't committed. What I found. I know I'm on a rant here. I know I talk a lot, but what I found out, myself included, they were all worried about what it looks like to the outside, but on the back end, that's what matters. Second sale. Building that awareness, that customer. A referral program. So many people have a crappy referral program. You know when they ask you to refer people, I just bought these Viking waffles. I'm sure I'm going to love them because I love their butter. I'm sure I'm going to love the hell out of them. But they say refer 10 friends. I'm like, well, shit, I haven't even tried them yet. I mean, my friends are bitches if I re recommend something that I end up, hey, you know I told you, buy those $80 waffles. They suck. So, I mean, people. So we're asking because the system is built that way for a referral before anyone's had an opportunity to engage with you. And so again, what's your referral program? Look like, what kind of incentives? And if you're not getting any referrals, don't you think that's feedback? So people don't like your program? Like, why aren't they referring people to it?

You know, I was just to emphasize your point, I keynoted an event. It was Randy's, one of Randy Garden's events a couple years ago back in, Back in, in Jackson Hole. And, and, and it was me and Frank Kern. And when, you know, so good. He was so amazing. And when he was done, he sat down, we're sitting next to each other, and I said, I said, frank, I said that that was incredible. I said, and I laughed. They go, that was so good. I said, it's no wonder that you make so much more money this than I do. And we started to laugh. And I go, I go, why is that? Just like that? And he goes, it's so simple. It's just I ask more people every day. And I said, do you ask more new people every day? He said, no, I go back, I go back and I ask the old people every day. And then you people just to your point.

Yes.

And you were so matter of fact about it. And it was so simple, you know.

And it's something I can't, like, I can't say it enough right now. If you don't know your customer's journey once they buy from you, you don't really know. And you wonder, like, when are you asking the referral? When do you ask for a testimonial? What are you doing for testimony? Because the most powerful thing you could do is have, I'm going to do it. Have a thousand videos saying how amazing the program was. And you've got to do it in the beginning for before people start sucking and not doing the work and then hating you. Right. So you've got to get that testimony in the beginning because guess what? Guess what I've learned. Once people tell you you're awesome, they fight their ass off to keep you awesome. And let me make my point with COVID Wow. Okay, here's my point with COVID Do you know why people I believe are so upset right now when other people are like, it's going to be okay. Let's open up the money. And other people are like, I'll kill you, you mother. Oh, you're killing people. First of all, let's all remember that the number one reason why we shut down the economy was so the hospitals could, like, so we could roll. So the hospitals could be ready, right?

Yep.

I believe that people like myself play ball. I thought of my avatar. Her name's P.B. i'm not gonna say her name, but P.B. one of my best friends who has had cancer multiple times, has no municipal in my thought. For her, I will not go out, even though for me, I have lung problem. But I didn't go out because of her, because my belief systems, God's gonna get me, how God's gonna get me. That's my paradigm, right? But I'm gonna do this for her and the rest of the world because that's what they sold us on. So now, as we see how much people are hurting and all the things are going down, people are upset that people are going to go back so early because they want it to have mattered. They want what happened to have mattered. And if we go back too soon and everything gets crappy, then the last 60 days didn't mean shit except we ruined a bunch of people's lives that own businesses.

The founder of Topgolf, Scott, he had to lay off 20,000 people.

Yeah.

And then people are. I mean, I'm going to go, but they're cheering for the big businesses to fail. I just want everyone to be clear. The big businesses are the ones that employ the people that are your neighbors.

That's right.

Root for business fail. But anyway, back to my point to round that out is I do believe that if you can get people to give you a testimonial quicker, sooner than later, in an appropriate time, that's also something right now. Any business owner right now could find five people who love them so much based on their behavior. They could call them personally, offer them money, whatever you need to do, and have them give you a testimonial right now. And that's very powerful for retargeting, very powerful for retargeting to retarget people. Because I know I'm going long here, but I just want to also give people information that that Facebook pixel is like an email. I mean, so once you pay for that first click, that's where you pay all your money, right? That first click. And they don't buy because people take seven, eight times, usually. Retarget them to your testimonial, Retarget them, because that's where you're going to get the conversion rate. And that's where most people fail. Their retargeting is crap. And the retargeting should be the only thing you care about. You got to get that first click and then retarget them until they buy because they're not going to buy off one. What most people do, Scott, is they get that first click and then they email the heck out of someone. And maybe if they're lucky, they have a 20% open rate. Maybe.

What? What? I still can't get this out of my head that people. People want the fact that they have stayed home to matter. Matter.

That's why they're so excited.

Like, that's exactly how I feel. And they didn't realize that's how I felt. Like, I.

It's why you felt weird yesterday, that I felt weird yesterday, too, because I was like, oh, my God, I stayed.

Why did we do that?

I'm gonna get sick. I don't want to get sick.

Well, yeah, and I, you know, and I feel like, you know, why. Why did we wreck this business? Why did we wreck that business? Why did we, you know, I mean, Lori, I know your dad has a place down there in Newport by me, you know, and I was on Balboa yesterday, and I saw all these businesses. It was so sad that we're shut down. And I'm thinking, if this business is shut in, that. And they weren't even given a chance because they were told they couldn't stay open. I want it to matter. And. And so what. What is. Like, what is the. The marketing like? How do we make it matter for people? How do we make it feel like it matters? And what I did was the right thing, and what we did is the right thing, because I think it's also. It's not just important for the economy, but as we're thinking about our own products and services and getting people like, how do we. How do we connect that thought to the leading topic of the day, which is Covid.

You know, one of the things. I really liked him.

Oh, I hesitate to say it. Political. So if people get political again, that's feedback for you. You get political at this point because I don't care what team you root for. Some of the best marketing is done by politicians. Fact. Like, look at how Obama went. He crushed social media and he got elected and president when even his own party was like, he's not. He's not experienced enough. But then he crushed it, right? Because he knew how to talk to people. He's a great orator, so I'm going to give him that. So I saw this Trump campaign that I haven't seen anywhere else, but a Trump supporter sent it to me, but I loved it. It wasn't about him. I don't care about that. The greatest comeback ever.

I think that we inspired people. Like I tear up when I think about it. It's not about him. I don't care about that. I care about the American spirit. We all stayed home. People didn't kill people. Like everyone thought. I mean they might get start getting crazy right now. But didn't happen. People played ball. At least in Ohio people stayed home. In fact, you got shamed a bit. If you went out, you better be getting groceries or doing something important, right? It missing.

But what if we could all get behind.

The greatest comeback ever?

Yeah.

What if we could show the world that you can shut down this economy, you can make everybody stay home and you give us 90 days. And then if everyone would spend in Jimmy, people have cash right now. People have money. If they would spend in like I tip takeout people, like I said in the restaurant, I do because I can. And if the people that could would spend in, you know, they talk about lean in. We could spend into this economy and lift it back up and not eat at home and eat out as much as possible just for three months like a crazy people. Like take that money you didn't spend on vacations and ear market. Give back to local businesses, give back to big businesses. Just go out and spend money and be out there and be free and believe that things are going to work out like they always have. And note the Great Depression. What turned it around when people started spending money, when people started started to have money. If we could all come together and quit fighting about when we go back and we don't go back, guess what else I know there is a not a single person in the government that cares more than I do. If I get Covid, not a single person. So I'm going to be responsible. And I might wear a mask, I might wear gloves. Hell, I don't know what I'm going to do. But I know this, that means you everything I can to not get Covid like I do every year to not get the flu. And guess what? I don't get the flu because I'm careful.

So for me, if we could inspire the country to move towards something instead of away from something and say let's make this the greatest comeback ever and we get small businesses and we make that a campaign. I don't care that about it being a political campaign because I don't even think that's going anywhere. I literally think that's something they probably tried and it probably, I don't know, you know how things are. But as a society I don't care who our leader is. He's just the dealer of the day, man. This is what I want to tell people. It is the RNC plus the DNC versus the people. It's not about you or me. It's about their machines and their candidate and their money. They also have their jobs. They also go into work. Nobody's lost anything in that group. So great, great. Like now it's about the people. The greatest comeback ever. And I don't need the government to help me with that. I know what to do.

So, Lori, we have about 30 seconds and I want you to share. I want you to share with people how they can find you.

So I'm rebranding myself. This is super fun. Part of time, to be a part of my life. So I rebuilt True Pet, did all the things, and now I'm rebuilding Laurier Taylor because I haven't done anything with Lori r. Taylor in five years. So much that my Twitter account with 65, 000 real followers is now gone because I was so inactive. Yep, true story. But that's okay, because now that matters. What matters is how I show up, who I be. Laurier Taylor.com youm should go there now so you can see how different it's gonna look in a month from now. So then you can know how quick. I built it in 2009 by myself. Yeah, that's what I did. And super pretty. And we get to watch this happen because I truly believe any business, any person can reinvent themselves at any point. All they have to do is one thing, and it's to decide.

Amen. Lori, I love you. Thank you guys all for joining us today. This is Scott Duffy and the show is what now is Scott duffy, presented by SAP. Concur. We'll be back tomorrow at 10aM Pacific. Until then, have an amazing day.