Company Vision vs Accountability: EOS Expert (750 Sessions) Reveals What Actually Drives Engagement

Actually I'm an expert EOS implementer. I've been implementing seven and a half years.

Nice.

So I just crossed 750 sessions and I've worked with 64 clients and over my seven and a half year journey.

Leonard, really appreciative of you being here. Leonard Lynske, professional EOS implementer. How long have you been implementing?

Yeah, actually I'm an expert EOS implementer implementing slightly eleven and a half years.

Nice.

So I just crossed 750 sessions and I've worked with 64 clients and over, over my seven and a half year journey.

Nice.

What is that?

What distinguishes the expert implementer? The number of sessions.

Yeah, so there's three levels. Is professional, professional implementer, somebody just new to their EOS implementing journey got certified implementers have. I don't remember the exact number but it's. They've done a certain number of sessions and then Expert implementers are 500 sessions and above.

Nice. Excellent. Well, we're excited. We're going to be sharing the Stage here on the 22nd of September at the Statler in Dallas for the we run on EOS conference.

Yeah.

And you'll be giving a talk there. And I just think the content that you are talking about is really helpful for people because you're taking the EOS principles and showing how some of the same tools and same principles actually can engage employees and accelerate companies in general. Am I, am I. Is that a fair way to say it?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The title of the talk is, you know, how is driving engagement through EOS tools. And the what got me thinking about this really is I teach a EOS worldwide through expert implementers, offers a course on how to be a great boss. It's like anything else in eos, right. It is a roadmap to how be it great leader and a great manager. So one of the things that we talk about in, in the Great Boss is creating engagement. And there's a reference to Daniel Pink's book Drive and Daniel Pink talks about that there are these three things, this, these three ingredients to creating motivated employees and it's purpose, path to mastery and engagement. And the more I have thought about this over the last couple of years, the more it has just resonated that this is exactly what your EOS foundational tools can do for you. It absolutely will helps you create motivated employees through a clear purpose, a path to mastery and creating autonomy. When you think about your, when you think about your employees, think about an iceberg. If you're a leadership team in an organization, when you see an iceberg in the ocean, you only see about 10% of it. There's 90% below that you don't see. When you lead an organization as a leadership team, you probably only have visibility into 10 or 15% of what's really going on in your organization. The trick to creating an organization that is, has a great culture, that has employees that are open, honest and vulnerable is how do you leverage that 85% that you can't see? Because the more you can leverage the people in your organization, the more powerful of an organization you're going to have, which means your organization is going to be successful. In eos, we define that two ways. Number one, you're growing profitably, not just top line. And more importantly, I think is that you're getting to live the life you deserve. Your company's not running you, you're running your company. And the only way you're going to do that is if you leverage that 90% that you can't see on a day to day basis. So that's what I'm going to talk about at conference.

I love that we talk a lot about, you know, what can we do to make those not easily visible things visible. And step one is understanding what those things are.

Right.

Did this come, it all makes sense as you, as you talk about it. Did you come to this just through seeing certain challenges that companies were facing or what was the journey, the aha for you that hey, we can really provide value for companies by going deeper here?

Yeah. You know, the it, it all comes back to vision, Right? Your vision. A company vision is so critical because it is a simple set of rules that define success for your organization. Right. Core values, your core, your core focus, your purpose, cause or passion in your niche. Your 10 year target, what's your time horizon target, where we're going. But all of that is your vision. It does it. I talk about vision giving companies three superpowers. Number one, it is the lens through which you filter decisions. You want somebody to make a great decision for you, they need to understand what the parameters are for that decision. Core values, core focus, which is purpose and niche. And our 10 year target. What our uniques are in our marketing strategy. Where do we want to be in three years? What do we want to be in a year? But if you're clear on that, you can't make a bad decision. Your vision creates accountability. Right. It's a simple set of rules that define success. The behaviors that you exhibit every single day need to support the core Values, your actions and activities need to be helping us achieve our purpose. And you need to be helping us get to our 10 year target. And if you're doing that, then you're going to be a successful employee. If that all resonates with you, you're going to want to do that because you want to be part of something bigger than yourself. And then the third thing is your vision is your foundation for employee retention and engagement. People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. Right. There's a reason that Chick Fil A didn't ever have trouble getting employees during one of the most challenging labor environments in the, in the early 20s during COVID And it's because they have a clear vision. Everybody understands why they're part what is what they need to do to be successful in that organization. They understand that the what Chick Fil A is actually trying to do is not sell burgers, but to have a positive influence on everyone they encounter every single day at their purpose. If I'm an employee, if I'm a $12 an hour employee on the front line, I'm saying my pleasure, because my job is not to sell you a burger. My job is have a positive impact on your day, every single experience. And so people who resonate with that want to go to work for that company. And so your vision is your employee recruiting and retention strategy.

I love this. I just did an interview, we published an interview yesterday with a good friend of mine, Kent Taggart at mender. They run EOs. They're very mission driven. And I was just talking with him about his journey and a lot of what's propelled them, I mean, they're, they're a relatively small organization. Highly profitable though. You know, they're really punching way above their weight class. And it's exactly what you're saying. Everyone understands the mission they're on. And so on the surface, they're on, you know, recycling technology. That's that that companies are getting rid of. But they feel like they're on a mission to mend the relationship between people and nature because they're recycling these things in a certain way. And while I won't be able to do it, the justice right now that Kent did it, that's what has united and propelled them.

Yeah.

And again, in 2000s, they faced some interesting decisions. But because they were so hyper focused, they made these pivots through Covid that to other people would seem like crazy, but to them was just like, no, they just fit with their values. And yeah, there were some challenges, but it's been an awesome ride.

Doesn't mean it, it's simple. Doesn't mean it's easy.

Right? What do you think holds leaders back from really leaning into these concepts? Or have you noticed anything through the 750 sessions you've done?

Accountability. People struggle with what I like to call a nice disease. It's human nature. We want to be liked, we want to be loved. And so somebody will do something that doesn't support the vision or the purpose and you'll say, oh, you know, I know you're, you're so busy. I know you intended on getting it done. I know you'll do it, so why don't you take another week or you need to do this and, and I know, but you're so busy, so I don't want to ask you, so I'll just do it myself. And so I'm not giving you autonomy, right? Because I'm not giving you the opportunity to do your job. I'm keeping it for me because it may be a little uncomfortable. And so really it boils down to accountability, what people, what leaders struggle with. And I did as well. I mean, I'm a pharmacist by training. I started and, or bought, sold five pharmacies over my 30 year entrepreneurial journey. And I sucked at accountability because I wanted to be everybody's buddy. Because if everybody loved me, everybody would just do what they needed to for the company to be successful. What leaders fail to appreciate out of fear or out of discomfort is that accountability is a love language. And the fastest way to build trust is to tell people the truth and give them, and give clear expectations. There's a great story in, I mean, think about, think about first responder, right? Three firefighters run into a building. The one in the middle has to know that the one on the left and the one on the right is going to do their job because if they don't, they're literally their lives dependent. And if it doesn't happen, then there's a conversation afterwards about what could be better. Right? Same thing on a, on a sports team, if you're not doing well and at your first base position, you better believe when you get in the locker room, your teammates are going to have a conversation with you. And accountability is the responsibility of everyone, not just the leaders, but teammates as well. So three firefighters run into a building, right? They, everybody has to know they're going to do their job because everybody's lives depend on it. I would submit to a leader of an organization that Your business, like the success of your business, is dependent upon successful execution of your vision. And the only way you're going to have successful execution of your vision is that everyone from you all the way down to the kit in shipping is held accountable to the standards of the organization set by the organization, which is the vision. And the vision is carried out through process. And process is a roadmap to success, which is part path to mastery.

Nice. Yeah, it's so many things coming up for me. I've been recovering from a procedure recently, and so in order to sit still, which I don't always like doing, I watch YouTube videos. Like, you know, I've worn out Netflix, but I watched. I like to watch videos on and about great coaches. So I was just watching a lot of the stuff around Greg Popovich's retirement. And the people that love him the most are often the people that he held accountable. Now, it wasn't just, you need to do this and hold this standard. He also. Everybody talks about the amount of time he spent just being with people, as people and letting their relationship develop. But those. I think we. We can easily confuse the idea that those two things can't coexist. We either have to be everybody's buddy, or we have to hold people accountable, when in fact we can do both. I mean, we can. We can develop healthy relationships and see our holding our team accountable as a service we're doing to them.

Versus you want to be respected. You don't want to be revered. If I let you come in late three days a week, I'm your buddy.

Yeah.

You're not going to respect me, but you're going to like me. The rest of your team's going to hate me and you. But if I say, here's the standard, I hold everybody to their same standard, then I'm respected. If I'm respected, I will be revered.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. And the theme comes up over and over. We help. You know, often we'll help leaders between their quarterly sessions just with some coaching. And one of the things I've seen with in. Throughout my career with that strong, technical, frontline person that gets promoted, it's one of the first things they struggle with, is their mindset around accountability. And one of their biggest fears is like, well, but I want to be that boss everybody loves. It's like, yeah, but that's a. It's a slippery slope if you just try to get people to like you and you're not, you're not serving them by showing them what success Looks like. And like you talked about that road map that you're creating, right?

You want to be loved by everybody, Earn the respect. Hold, hold, hold a standard.

Once companies get. Or once leadership teams get clarity on the vision, are there other sticking points that you see? And once they start to create the accountability, I guess, what are some of the things you've seen help people start to understand this more so that they can make sense of it a little better for themselves.

The leaders or the rest of the organization?

I'd say both. And now that you ask, Because I was asking about leaders, but now that you mention it, yeah, I'd love to hear both.

So really, for the leaders that they're gonna. They're gonna get. They're gonna understand the vision more because they're gonna have to talk about it. They're gonna have to tell a story. They're gonna have to bring it to life. Because you can't just tell somebody, hey, here's our core values. Can't just say it once. Takes people. Seven people need to hear something seven times before it resonates. And listen, your employees, I got news for you. You are not the highest. You are not the highest priority on their list. They get up and come to work, and maybe they're not getting along with their spouse, or they need a $1,200 repair on their transmission, or they're going to be a little short on rent this. And so there's a lot of things competing with their attention. And so you got to tell the vision story over and over, and you've got to bring it to life with stories. Can't just read it on a page because it doesn't resonate. Because they have to. You got to know. People have to know where you're going, how are you going to get there, and what's my part in achieving the vision? And that's the trick, to connect the person to the vision. And so you got to tell stories. When you give someone facts, it engages two parts of their brain. When you tell someone a story, it engages seven. So what do you think they're more likely to remember? And so, you know, you can't just get up and say, okay, our purpose is, you know, we're going to. I've got a client that is a. They do fire suppression, and their purpose is protect property, save lives. So they can't say that once a quarter in a meeting. They've got to say it every quarter when they're sharing the vision with the whole organization. And they've got to tell stories around it. Here's what so and so did. That was an example of that. When you're in your level 10 meetings and you're processing issues every week, the conversation needs to be does this decision support our purpose? Is this aligned with our core values? Is this decision helping us get to our 10 year target? It's got to be part of your everyday conversation. I saw a that's so you've got to bring it to life. And bring it to life means you've got to lose it, use it. Right. Enron had core values. Enron had a purpose. Enron had a vision. I'm relatively positive that it wasn't let's do federal time and defraud all of our customers. But because they didn't live it every day, because it wasn't in front of them, because people didn't understand it and they didn't cross some big line that went from legitimate businessmen to uber felons. They crossed a lot of little lines on the way and then when they looked up they were just so far across the line they didn't know how to get back. Right. So you don't do it. You don't make one big step. It's a hundred little steps. They lost their way because they didn't live their vision. And so the way that you bring it, the way that in order to tell a great story about your vision as a leader, you've got to understand the vision. Which means the more you tell it, the more you're going to, it's the more intimate you're going to be with it, the more you're going to understand it. And the way you get people in your organization to understand it is to talk about it not once a quarter, not in a yearly sales meeting, but in use it as the foundation for how we make decisions in every single interaction, every single day. It is the why and it should be part of every conversation.

Yeah, totally agree there. And I always liked, there's an interview with Steve Jobs where he talks about, you know, as the, as the CEO and as the visionary job one is making sure everybody understands that vision. Because if they understand it then they're going to, they're going to spread that into their arch of the organization. Everybody's on the same page. Any things about what you'll present or your practice that you'd like to make sure we include and get out there?

No, I mean, you know, the, the everything I'm going to talk about is related to creating engagement and it is, it's all. And in Daniel Pink's the backbone of the talk is around creating engaged employees through a path to ma, through clear purpose, path to mastery and autonomy. So we haven't really talked about autonomy.

Here, but that's a great thing to double click on. Oh, please continue. We'll come back to.

So what I'm going to talk about is how all of the tools in EOS can help you do that. But there's a thing in EOS that people don't talk about very much and we talk about it internally. And I think that as you go through, as an implementer, you go through your journey, you really start to see this. There is what we call the matrix in eos because there's, you know, most people go, okay, well, there's the vision tool and there's the accountability chart tool and there's a scorecard and clarity breaks are a tool and quarterly conversations are a tool that. The simple elegance of EOS is that all of these tools interconnect and they, they integrate with one another on several different levels, Right? And so they're not independent tools, but as a system, they create this matrix or this high, this, this, these interactions that happen and they all feather in on one another. And so, you know, your vision is important because it helps you make great decisions. It's also important because it's what you need to create autonomy, right? So when you're talking about autonomy, the autonomy is that people are allowed to do their jobs, right? One of the hardest thing for a leader to do is to let people do their jobs. And with eos, how you create autonomy. One is the accountability chart. Because the accountability chart is unlike an organizational chart, right? It tells people what they need to. The accountability chart tells you four things. It tells you where I fit in the organization, what, which is what an org chart does. But that's where the similarities in. The second thing an accountability chart does is it tells me what I need to do to be successful. Because there are the roles and responsibilities in the accountability chart. It, it is giving me permission to go do my job. If you are doing the things that define success for your seat, you are going to be successful. I don't have to manage. You just go do them with my blessing, right? The third thing an accountability chart does, it's a roadmap for resources. And the fourth thing it does is that it empowers people closest to the issue to solve it. So many companies get bottlenecked because there's a manager somewhere that has to touch everything that can't delegate. And the Most important thing that a manager delegates to an employee to create autonomy is the next step. Your accountability chart says I'm allowed to do these things. So if you're a manager, it's like, yep, this is Josh's job. And so Josh, go do this. If you need help, call me, but I'm not going to come interfere. And so many times because we're afraid to. We're afraid of letting go because we're afraid that if I'm not doing everything, people will think I don't bring any value or that I am incompetent. And so letting go so that people can be autonomous and do their jobs, people, leaders will think it's a, a poor reflection on them because it's their fear that someone will think they're lazy or not doing their job because they're letting someone else do it, when in actuality that's what they should be doing. That's how you grow that iceberg. And so you need the accountability chart so that you can, you know who to delegate the next step and that, you know, they're, they GWC that task. They get it wanted to have the capacity to do the task. The person you're, that you're giving autonomy to has to know how to make the right decision. And the way they know how to make the right decision is they have a clear vision. And that's like an example of that matrix. And then you as a manager, you're giving autonomy because you're delegating the things you shouldn't be doing to the people who should be doing right. So that's another layer of the tools. So EOS has this really beautiful matrix that frankly, it took me about 400 sessions to even be able to begin to see it or appreciate it. But it, it is what creates traction within an or pun intended in an organization. Because all these tools work together. Yeah, they're.

Yeah.

Get you the results that you want.

Yeah, they create, I'd say absolutely. They create virtuous cycles. And you start to, the more people practice them, the more they that starts to click and then the better that clicks for them, the better they can start explaining them because ultimately you end up with a way to talk about your business that's crystal clear. Everybody understands what we're here to do, exactly how we're measuring success, exactly how I fit into this. And as you're saying how I can be successful. So I, I a hundred percent agree with that. You said something else I wanted to double click on. Oh, in. So you mentioned that fear of letting go because what value will I have that holds people back? Have you ever seen leaders who are, and maybe this, these are tied together? I've seen leaders be reluctant to delegate because they're worried that well, that person's not going to do it as well as I can do it and I need it done at this standard. So I'm just going to go do it myself.

Yeah.

Have you seen that happen at all?

Yeah. That's the five most dangerous words in an entrepreneurial organization. Never mind, I'll just do it myself.

Oh, that's a good quote right there.

If I'm delegate, that means that I've got to explain it and then I'm going to have to follow up and they're going to ask me questions and there it's going to be slower and they're not going to do it my way. And oh my God, it's only a 10 minute task. I'm just going to do it myself. But what ends up happening is your, as you, as your organization grows or as you grow as a leader, as you keep hanging on to this stuff and five 10 minute tasks a day, the nevermind, I'll just do it myself is a week, a year. And what could you do with a week? A year cost you money in three ways. If you're doing a, if you're a $50 an hour employee doing a $15 an hour task, it's $35 an hour. That's a simple math. What's it costing you in, in opportunities and value you can be creating for your organization when you're doing that $15 an hour task and not working at the highest and best use of your time. And most importantly, what is it costing the organization when you don't, when you are not giving people the agency and the autonomy that they need to do their jobs right. So what are they not creating? And a players won't work in organizations like that. A players want to contribute, they want to be successful, they want to be autonomous and if you won't let them, they will leave. And what is that going to cost you? So the nevermind, I'll do it myself mantra because it feels good, it's comfortable, it feels, it's safe. I don't to have the discomfort of somebody else doing this thing and learning and growing because it'll make me look bad. I'm afraid to let go. And really it's a fear of looking. I think it, it's all rooted in a fear of looking incompetent. We call it a Lack of trust. But I think what causes that lack of trust is a fear of not being valued. And so we think and so busy is comfortable, productive is uncomfortable. Productive means I have to choose to trust some productive means. I. The other thing that happens is somebody comes in my office and they ask me a question and I give them the answer. You've just robbed them of their autonomy. You've robbed them of their agency. When someone comes into your office, the first thing you should say is, I don't know, what do you think? Or why don't you create, Come up with two scenarios and come back, let's talk about it. Or have you checked the process? Because your process is a roadmap to success. But doing all of that delegating. Delegating is a full contact sport. Asking people questions is. It takes time. And so a lot of times we're busy and it's just easier to just give them the answer. So they get out of your office or just do the task yourself because, oh my God, it's going to take me an hour to delegate this or two. And I could do it in 10 minutes. Except that when you train someone to do it, you're empowering them. And you. That hour you're going to spend, you'll never spend it a year. So the. What leaders fail to realize is. And I've, I've, I've had this conversation a thousand times. Oh, I lost my training, though.

We're talking about, we're talking about the temptation to just do the work.

Yeah.

And how that really robs you and your employee of their autonomy, their opportunity to learn. And there's all these second, fourth order cost. Yeah. Yeah.

And it takes time. But here's the thing. I've worked with 65 companies. I've run five. I know thousands of other, other companies through my colleagues at eos. I would venture to guess that every single one of them, their largest line item on their P and L is people. It would make sense that as a leader and manager in your organization, that you should focus your priority and your time on your most valuable resource, which is people and time and a time. Again, because we're busy. The thing we spend the least amount of time on is our people. And then we wonder why they won't do their jobs.

I see that busy trap a lot, whether it's implementing EOS or getting to one of the tools or what have you. We've just been really busy. We'll have to do it when this project lights up.

I had a guy say to I had a guy say to me one time, I don't have time to coach a million more people. I'm busy. Good luck.

Yeah, I think, I think that one is a. And I've done it too, especially early in my career. So I get it. But the idea that, you know, you attain some level of success where now you've got breathing room, it's not how it works. You have to set the situation up that allows you the breathing room as you were talking about at the beginning. So you have the lifestyle where you're running the business versus the business running you. And that takes actively investing in these things. And I love how you described the math of it, because if you think about every time somebody comes back to you with that same question every time they haven't learned to go do the research and try the things on their own, it's not just that, that first week a year, it's weeks and weeks per year. And that's something I've seen. Hamstring profit, destroy profit.

Really? Yeah. You pay. If you're going to do these people's jobs, why are you paying them? Just fire them and do them yourself. And here's the other thing, too. It's. You're teaching people how to treat you. So if I've been married 35 years, the very first time I did laundry for my wife, I put a bunch of red. I put something red in the white lawn in the white basket and ruined a bunch of her stuff. And I've never been asked to do laundry again. I am perfectly capable of learning how to do laundry. My wife knows that I am perfectly capable of doing laundry. And yet for 35 years, she has done the laundry because she doesn't trust me to do it.

That's not for our listeners. That's not a strategy to get out of doing laundry. Don't go throw a red in the line.

But the reality is that's what, what, what happens to a lot of leaders. I trusted him to do this thing once. He did it wrong. I can never trust him again. So give me a process I can be taught, and then if I can't follow the process, maybe I'm not the right fit for the organization. But you can set me up for success. And then if I don't, if I choose not to, to accept the path to success, that's a different conversation. Yeah, that's what happens. I mean, it's kind of an extreme example, but that's how leaders get hamstrung. Ooh. They didn't do it. My way. They didn't do it one time, right? And, but that's what happens. So they don't delegate. And then they, they wonder why they get to the end of their day, they work a 50 hour week and they walk in out of the house on Friday, out of work on Friday, and they go, I didn't get anything done this week. That's because you're doing everybody else's job and everybody else knows you'll do it for them and you know what they'll let you.